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For me, that'sIn Rock climbing, there is a concept called the onsight. Basically one climbs a route with minimal knowledge, and much of the pleasure is the psychological not knowing if you can actually do it, and find hidden holds and such like.
I am wondering if doing Camino is the similar. Obviously, one can walk as much as one wants, but can it only be the first time that one can truly experience the trepidation of the physical and psychological journey one is about to commence.
Afterwards, it's a jolly nice thing to do, but cannot be the same as the first.
Sometimes it is just the one that makes sense logistically (weather, time of year, proximity, infrastructure). I always like to go back to the Frances every once in a while. To me it is sort of fun to walk it again. Familiarity? Maybe.I cannot imagine walking the Frances for example more than once as I want to do more different things
In Rock climbing, there is a concept called the onsight. Basically one climbs a route with minimal knowledge, and much of the pleasure is the psychological not knowing if you can actually do it, and find hidden holds and such like.
I am wondering if doing Camino is the similar. Obviously, one can walk as much as one wants, but can it only be the first time that one can truly experience the trepidation of the physical and psychological journey one is about to commence.
Afterwards, it's a jolly nice thing to do, but cannot be the same as the first.
Sure I do, but my reflection is if these are walks as opposed to a Camino, after the first one.@Bedspring just checking you know there are LOTS of routes, don't you?
Sure I do, but my reflection is if these are walks as opposed to a Camino, after the first one.
No climb was ever the same for me. Weather, timing, companions, capacity, competence all changed the rock.
No camino has ever been the same either: weather, timing, company, capacity for Orujo, my increasing incompetence…
Perhaps that frisson, the trepidation may be absent but also may be strengthened by a little foreknowledge. For some Crib Goch is an easy route in heavy cloud; a bit of a bugger on a clear day
I don't do 'walks'.
Don't really see the point in them.
Never do them at home.
I only do 'Caminos'.....
The first and subsequent were all undertaken as Caminos.
A Pilgrimage and a 'walk' is like comparing an Apple to an Orange.
I think you are suggesting that after the first Camino, any subsequent Caminos become just a walk.
I don't think so.
For one thing, the 'walk' lacks the spiritual aspect of the Camino. The
"et Suseia', if you will.
When I saw the title of the post I thought to myself, "I bet someone (youMany of us who have had the opportunity to walk the same camino multiple times agree with these lovely, poignant lines by Jose Saramago.
"The end of one journey is simply the start of another. You have to see what you missed the first time, see again what you already saw, see in springtime what you saw in summer, in daylight what you saw at night, see the sun shining where you saw the rain falling, see crops growing, the fruit ripen, the stone which has moved, the shadow that was not there before. You have to go back to the footsteps already taken, to goof over them again or add fresh ones alongside them.You have to start the journey anew. Always"
Jose Saramago, A Journey to Portugal
And I would add…. Be kindWalk, Eat, Sleep, Repeat.
But I would add....... Look, Listen, Learn and Feel.
Agree 100%!"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man."
Heraclitus
I know whatever you pick will be a rich experience. I would just say that “longing” is a strong and meaningful feeling and should maybe be given some extra weight. As some writers on this thread have pointed out the distinction between a Camino and a walk, just so I would say we “lean toward” a walk and “long for” a Camino.This is an interesting question I've been thinking as I start to plan my second Camino.
By definition, there can only be one "first" - so I've been thinking about whether I would want to do the same route a second time or experience a new route for the first time?
My first was Norte/Primitivo/Finisterre in spring 2023, and I've been thinking about Via Podiensis starting at Le Puy en Velay in spring 2025. I had hoped to go this year, but moving to a new house was (and continues to be) a major distraction.
Although I'm leaning towards trying something new, making it a "first" pilgrimage on a different route, there's part of me that longs to return to the route that was my first Camino and enjoy it from the perspective of experience in a way that I couldn't the first time, enjoy walking in a familiar place, each each step and turn, knowing that I really can do it. Did I walk too fast? Did I not linger enough? Did I not savor each new vista? Did I not explore enough? Would the repetition dampen some of what I think of as "route anxiety" (not quite knowing where I am, trying to find the path, concerned about missing a turn, wondering why the distance was marked as 20K (or 30K) when I've already walked so much more than that, ha!), and thus provide an opportunity to walk in a more contemplative state? Or do I want to experience a new route, with the distraction of new places (and route anxiety), which can bring me back closer to the feeling of my first Camino but in a different place?
My sense is that some people really enjoy the feeling of finding their way in a new place, the challenge of finding the path in an unknown place, seeing something new. I don't dislike it, but I also enjoy walking in familiar places too, or combining a walk through some place I know and adding on new parts to explore (always that nagging route anxiety my companion). Still, I feel I have to ask myself, am I really contemplating the same route to avoid the route anxiety, or to enjoy the same route in a deeper way?
I suspect I will likely pick the new route, the draw of seeing new places probably stronger than a repeat of a more familiar path, but it is tempting. I look at my pictures and long to return. Either way, though, I'm sure the experience will be all that it is supposed to be, it just won't be my First Camino....
Obviously this is your opinion, and what I sought ;-), but I would shy away from the word "just", a person who has walked the Appalachian trail, my consider a Camino all a bit "just". Or a person who has walked from Antwerp, may think a person who has walked from SJPDP all a bit "just". We make our own decisions, and I am "just" interested in other people's perspectives on doing more than one Camino.I don't do 'walks'.
Don't really see the point in them.
Never do them at home.
I only do 'Caminos'.....
The first and subsequent were all undertaken as Caminos.
A Pilgrimage and a 'walk' is like comparing an Apple to an Orange.
I think you are suggesting that after the first Camino, any subsequent Caminos become just a walk.
I don't think so.
Well I do because I look, but moving on, if life is a box of chocolates, why keep walking to the same destination?My momma always said "Life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get."
I see the Camino as a walk. A fantastic walk but a walk nonetheless. . It’s a pilgrimage for many of course, and that’s fine, but we can use our own labels that best fit how we see ourselves, and certainly I see myself as a walker / hiker /trekker and not a pilgrim. It’s what I am comfortable with. Maybe because I see it as a walk, I won’t do it again, but pilgrims may as it ‘means more ‘ to them. They may get more ‘benefit’ redoing a Camino as it’s give them a lot of happiness versus something new that isn’a pilgrimage.Obviously this is your opinion, and what I sought ;-), but I would shy away from the word "just", a person who has walked the Appalachian trail, my consider a Camino all a bit "just". Or a person who has walked from Antwerp, may think a person who has walked from SJPDP all a bit "just". We make our own decisions, and I am "just" interested in other people's perspectives on doing more than one Camino.
I think the motivations behind rock climbing and Camino walking, while overlapping, are far from congruent. I agree that the second time you walk a route cannot be the same as the first. In my experience, it can be better.In Rock climbing, there is a concept called the onsight. Basically one climbs a route with minimal knowledge, and much of the pleasure is the psychological not knowing if you can actually do it, and find hidden holds and such like.
I am wondering if doing Camino is the similar. Obviously, one can walk as much as one wants, but can it only be the first time that one can truly experience the trepidation of the physical and psychological journey one is about to commence.
Afterwards, it's a jolly nice thing to do, but cannot be the same as the first.
If you have a nice meal, do you say "Man, that dish was delicious. I never want to eat it again!"? If you hear a great song, do you say "That song was great. I never want to hear it again! Only new songs for me."?Well I do because I look, but moving on, if life is a box of chocolates, why keep walking to the same destination?
"Can be better" interesting, as I said asking for perspectives.I think the motivations behind rock climbing and Camino walking, while overlapping, are far from congruent. I agree that the second time you walk a route cannot be the same as the first. In my experience, it can be better.
What is the infrastructure like on the Francigenia, vis a vis accommodationThere are so many different camino's. Why should I do the same one again. But this is my personal view. That is the reason why I am now hiking on the Via Francigena from Canterbury to Rome.
You are allowed to have your own opinion and be happy with it.
Infrastructure is an issue on Via Francigena. Less available and more expensive. But this is part of a pilgrimage.What is the infrastructure like on the Francigenia, vis a vis accommodation
And I gave my perspective. It can be better because you are more aware of what the Camino has to offer or because you are more receptive to it. It can be better because you value the company you have (my first time on the Frances was solo, my second time was with my teenage son, for example, but it could also be the "Camino family" you find). Can be better because you stop at different places or see different things. Can be better because you are in better shape to walk it. There are so many ways it can be better."Can be better" interesting, as I said asking for perspectives.
The "never the same again" aspect is probably even more pronounced than you state. Of course any subsequent Camino won't be the same as the first. Of course the same trepidation won't be there. The psychological journey is different. Yet some people come back again and again and enjoy it all the same.In Rock climbing, there is a concept called the onsight. Basically one climbs a route with minimal knowledge, and much of the pleasure is the psychological not knowing if you can actually do it, and find hidden holds and such like.
I am wondering if doing Camino is the similar. Obviously, one can walk as much as one wants, but can it only be the first time that one can truly experience the trepidation of the physical and psychological journey one is about to commence.
Afterwards, it's a jolly nice thing to do, but cannot be the same as the first.
“We leave something of ourselves behind, only leave a place, we stay there even though we go away. And there are things in us that we can find again only by going back there. We travel to ourselves when we go to a place though we have covered a stretch of our life, no matter how brief it may have been.Afterwards, it's a jolly nice thing to do, but cannot be the same as the first.
Now I'll really throw a spanner in the works.Sure I do, but my reflection is if these are walks as opposed to a Camino, after the first one.
Interesting point. I am currently two days into a Camino and was just thinking that I have heard only the word ‘pilgrim’ once (from a middle age American lady) and have not heard the word ‘pilgrimage’ at all which is similar to previous caminos. It is a younger European crowd, albeit with English being used a lot, so maybe it is a nationality/age thing ( the use of the word Pilgrim). Just an observation really. I don’t use the word myself and yes for me it would be pretentious, as I don’t believe I meet the criteria to be called a pilgrim. Happy for others to use the label as they wish.Now I'll really throw a spanner in the works.
My first camino was a walk, I thought the word "pilgrim" was pretentious in the worst sense of the word.
But I came to wear the label - and have done so, not only each of my five subsequent caminos, but through all of life whether in Spain or not.
Yes! Also felt similarly my first walk, or at least I thought it was pretentious to think of myself as a Pilgrim before I started, although I did think of it as a spiritIual journey. Not sure at what point during the 6 weeks I started to view myself as also a pilgrim. I walked that first tough week of the del Norte largely on my own, barely speaking to anyone, so maybe somewhere in the second week as I started to make friends along the way.... and certainly when I entered Santiago, tears streaming down my cheeks.....Now I'll really throw a spanner in the works.
My first camino was a walk, I thought the word "pilgrim" was pretentious in the worst sense of the word.
But I came to wear the label - and have done so, not only each of my five subsequent caminos, but through all of life whether in Spain or not.
If you find these words kinda haunting or nostalgic I would highly recommend the movie Night train to Lisbon which I found to be fascinatingWe travel to ourselves when we go to a place
I walked Camino Frances for the first time, May-June 2023 and again this year May-June 2024.The first time it was all new and exciting not knowing what the path had in store for me. Dealing with rainy days, doing laundry by hand and of course the walking between 20-30 km a day with a backpack. Having breakfast, lunch and dinner with people you just met on the trail. Ordering food in restaurants and grocery stores were some don't speak English. This took a little adjusting for me. When I walked the second time this year I was a little more at ease. Knew what to expect when ordering food, staying in Albergues and how my body would react to walking the 20-30 km a day. I also stayed at quite a few different towns. But the one main thing for me was I met great people on both Caminos. I turn 66 next month so don't know if I'll walk a Camino again but I would not hesitate to walk the Frances again. Many more different towns to stay in and many more great people to meet.Sometimes it is just the one that makes sense logistically (weather, time of year, proximity, infrastructure). I always like to go back to the Frances every once in a while. To me it is sort of fun to walk it again. Familiarity? Maybe.
Don't get me wrong tho. I like doing different things too.
To be fair, I heard the Spanish “peregrino/a” far more than the English word…and I wonder if somehow that created a metaphorical distance that enabled me to accept the term!Interesting point. I am currently two days into a Camino and was just thinking that I have heard only the word ‘pilgrim’ once (from a middle age American lady) and have not heard the word ‘pilgrimage’ at all which is similar to previous caminos.
You've nailed it! Well done!This is an interesting question I've been thinking as I start to plan my second Camino.
By definition, there can only be one "first" - so I've been thinking about whether I would want to do the same route a second time or experience a new route for the first time?
My first was Norte/Primitivo/Finisterre in spring 2023, and I've been thinking about Via Podiensis starting at Le Puy en Velay in spring 2025. I had hoped to go this year, but moving to a new house was (and continues to be) a major distraction.
Although I'm leaning towards trying something new, making it a "first" pilgrimage on a different route, there's part of me that longs to return to the route that was my first Camino and enjoy it from the perspective of experience in a way that I couldn't the first time, enjoy walking in a familiar place, each each step and turn, knowing that I really can do it. Did I walk too fast? Did I not linger enough? Did I not savor each new vista? Did I not explore enough? Would the repetition dampen some of what I think of as "route anxiety" (not quite knowing where I am, trying to find the path, concerned about missing a turn, wondering why the distance was marked as 20K (or 30K) when I've already walked so much more than that, ha!), and thus provide an opportunity to walk in a more contemplative state? Or do I want to experience a new route, with the distraction of new places (and route anxiety), which can bring me back closer to the feeling of my first Camino but in a different place?
My sense is that some people really enjoy the feeling of finding their way in a new place, the challenge of finding the path in an unknown place, seeing something new. I don't dislike it, but I also enjoy walking in familiar places too, or combining a walk through some place I know and adding on new parts to explore (always that nagging route anxiety my companion). Still, I feel I have to ask myself, am I really contemplating the same route to avoid the route anxiety, or to enjoy the same route in a deeper way?
I suspect I will likely pick the new route, the draw of seeing new places probably stronger than a repeat of a more familiar path, but it is tempting. I look at my pictures and long to return. Either way, though, I'm sure the experience will be all that it is supposed to be, it just won't be my First Camino....
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