Walked the Camino over 12 times to Santiago never once went into Cathedral.

[MickMac]

Walked the Camino to Santiago over 12 times now, never once did I go into the Cathedral.

I was impressed by it's understated magnificent facade never felt a need to go in. I am not unreligious just never felt the need.

 

[SioCamino]

If still in Santiago I would recommend popping in to have a wander around. I think that the recent renovation was just wonderful, restoring the flow of the cathedral back to its origins and bringing in very sympathetic modern features (specifically the lighting which is I think is very beautiful and while clearly modern is used in an unobtrusive way and in fact highlights features).

 

[JabbaPapa]

Prior to its most recent cleanup/renovation, this church did have its flaws -- but if you intend to return once more, it has become straightforwardly gorgeous both out and in.

Otherwise, as I am a silly pedant -- if you have been to the Pilgrim Office, it is technically a part of the Cathedral.

Honestly, next time just go in.

It is a very beautiful church.

 

[Caomhin O Fearghaill]

I wonder why you felt the need to say why you never felt the need?

 

[SabsP]

In 2011 you were still allowed to enter with your backpack.
A very moving moment.

A month ago I was able to participate twice in the Pilgrim's Mass at 7.30 pm. Both times the Botafumeiro was in action. I appreciated how they announced this ritual as an integral part of the service and not some kind of " event ". There were more people not filming than filming.
Could be that the evening service attracts more contemplative people?

 

[Dani7]

I wonder why you felt the need to say why you never felt the need?

…and I wonder why I felt the need to click open this thread . The title said it all and I am questioning my own motive.

 

[OTH86]

FWIW, @MicMac, James A. Michener's book Iberia (1968) has incredible descriptions of the Cathedral, inside and out - architecturally, historically and artistically. I'm taking those 99 pages with me in a couple of weeks, for a more thorough appreciation when I arrive again...

 

[MickMac]

I wonder why you felt the need to say why you never felt the need?

It baffles me, Maybe? for me reaching your destination is a completion and fulfilment of my Camino. Maybe? I did not want this "ending",

Maybe? it's the tourism all around it for some, "not begrudging it" it's a day out on the tour bus,

I wanted a more spiritual experience that did not exist.

Also had the same feeling at the cruz de ferro wanted it to mean more than queuing with my rock and feelings.
Maybe? I am just weird or sad .

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

I have been to the cathedral and prayed at the remains of the saint, but I go to mass at the Pilgrim office (so that I can avoid the gawkers in the cathedral who won't respect the private nature of mass and insist of filming, snapping photos etc).

 

[Turga]

just never felt the need.

Good for you (I guess). What other things didn’t you feel a need to do and want to share?

 

[Kirkie]

It baffles me, Maybe? for me reaching your destination is a completion and fulfilment of my Camino. Maybe? I did not want this "ending",

Maybe? it's the tourism all around it for some, "not begrudging it" it's a day out on the tour bus,

I wanted a more spiritual experience that did not exist.

Also had the same feeling at the cruz de ferro wanted it to mean more than queuing with my rock and feelings.
Maybe? I am just weird or sad .

Did you know about room 6 upstairs at the Pilgrim office?

Camino Companions - Faithful Companions of Jesus

Camino Companions is an FCJ project in Santiago de Compostela to offer pilgrims a space to articulate and find meaning at the end of their Camino.

www.fcjsisters.org

 

[MickMac]

Did you know about room 6 upstairs at the Pilgrim office?

Camino Companions - Faithful Companions of Jesus

Camino Companions is an FCJ project in Santiago de Compostela to offer pilgrims a space to articulate and find meaning at the end of their Camino.

www.fcjsisters.org

Is it a hitchcock film.

 

[SabsP]

It baffles me, Maybe? for me reaching your destination is a completion and fulfilment of my Camino. Maybe? I did not want this "ending",

Maybe? it's the tourism all around it for some, "not begrudging it" it's a day out on the tour bus,

I wanted a more spiritual experience that did not exist.

Also had the same feeling at the cruz de ferro wanted it to mean more than queuing with my rock and feelings.
Maybe? I am just weird or sad .

How can you be sure that the people on the tourbus are not devout Catholics with an abundance of spirituality and deep Faith?

 

[Kirkie]

Is it a hitchcock film.

Meet me at EPIC and I'll tell you. Or St James' St Church, any volunteer will entertain you gladly! Time is running out, so go before the end of October, any Thursday, Friday or Saturday 10.30 till 3.30.

 

[dbier]

If you never went inside, particularly if you never went in with an open Camino spirit, what is your basis for deciding it wasn't a "more spiritual experience?" To me, it's rather like traveling to attend a party or visit someone and never going inside.

If you're looking for validation for your personal choice, some people have and will validate it.

*I* wonder what you were afraid you'd find, or Who you were afraid might find you.

Buen Camino, whenever you continue it.

 

[Tincatinker]

I did attend Mass in 2012. In a sense of search?

I do visit that beautiful building every time I’m in Santiago but that’s to pay my respects to himself. I’ve wondered now and again what that humble(ish) Galilean might make of his modern glories but that’s an aside rather than a topic for conversation when we’re here.

@MickMac perhaps a quiet bar and a couple of beers would give us room to wander around the puzzles. I’ve always “gone in”, not because of the architecture or the splendour or the great swinging thingy but because he’s there and I just walked all that bloody way to see him

 

[MickMac]

How can you be sure that the people on the tourbus are not devout Catholics with an abundance of spirituality and deep Faith?

Didn't mention their religion

If you never went inside, particularly if you never went in with an open Camino spirit, what is your basis for deciding it wasn't a "more spiritual experience?" To me, it's rather like traveling to attend a party or visit someone and never going inside.

If you're looking for validation for your personal choice, some people have and will validate it.

*I* wonder what you were afraid you'd find, or Who you were afraid might find you.

Buen Camino, whenever you continue it.

Not looking for validation do not need it, your analogy is incorrect.
I feel as spiritual in the mountains decending into Triacastela it was an observation not feeling the need for justification.
I felt the journey was the important part the destination was like the beginning we all start and end somewhere.

 

[Vacajoe]

It’s your life and you can do what you like. I think it’s odd to continually walk a path that is literally to a place that you don’t visit, but you do you. For me, I like to visit key places in cities I visit, religious or secular.

 

[MickMac]

It’s your life and you can do what you like. I think it’s odd to continually walk a path that is literally to a place that you don’t visit, but you do you. For me, I like to visit key places in cities I visit, religious or secular.

Strange indeed.

 

[dick bird]

Walked the Camino to Santiago over 12 times now, never once did I go into the Cathedral.

I was impressed by it's understated magnificent facade never felt a need to go in. I am not unreligious just never felt the need.

Philip Larkin was an atheist but he couldn’t resist going into churches, and the cathedral of Santiago is a stunner (not that Larkin ever went there) and possibly the finest Romanesque cathedral still standing. Go in early in the morning when it is near empty.

 

[ShoshTrvls]

Didn't mention their religion

I am an atheist and a Jewish atheist at that.

But the closest I’ve ever come to believing in a g-d was when I first saw the baldacchino in St. Peter’s. Not only did its size and beauty literally take my breath away, but I sat in awe thinking that that whatever moved Bernini to make it must be something greater than anything on earth.

And needless to say, that happened in a room overflowing with tourists (as I was) jockeying for position to take in all of the beauty of the Basilica.

Any one of those tourists in Santiago may be having a religious experience more profound than you know, even if they weren’t wearing a sign that said “I’m here for the religion.” And you might have missed one as well.

 

[dick bird]

understated magnificent facade

And ´understated´? ´Understated Baroque´ is definitely an oxymoron.

 

[JabbaPapa]

And ´understated´? ´Understated Baroque´ is definitely an oxymoron.

To be fair, the Baroque aesthetic is centred in deliberate self-contradictions and internal oppositions.

 

[Bob Howard]

Philip Larkin was an atheist but he couldn’t resist going into churches, and the cathedral of Santiago is a stunner (not that Larkin ever went there) and possibly the finest Romanesque cathedral still standing. Go in early in the morning when it is near empty.

Dick, is the cathedral in Santiago Romanesque. I thought it was Gothic.

 

[dick bird]

Dick, is the cathedral in Santiago Romanesque. I thought it was Gothic.

Definitely Romanesque. At least, that´s what Arthur Kingsley Porter reckoned, and he should know. It was begun in 1075, the earlier church having been burnt down by Al-Monsur in 997. Construction began under bishop Peláez but it was Bishop Gelmirez who was probably responsible for its size and grandeur.

 

[Bob Howard]

Thanks. Since posting my comment, I found this.

Exploring the Architectural Marvels of the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela

Exploring the Architectural Marvels of the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela CaminoWays.com

caminoways.com

 

[JabbaPapa]

Dick, is the cathedral in Santiago Romanesque. I thought it was Gothic.

The Cloister is foundationally late Gothic, but it was finished in the Renaissance style.

The Cathedral itself is Romanesque, as the excellent restoration work has made more clearly visible.

 

[MickMac]

And ´understated´? ´Understated Baroque´ is definitely an oxymoron.

I meant its position not the baroque it's in a dip .

 

[nilesite]

Walked the Camino to Santiago over 12 times now, never once did I go into the Cathedral.

I was impressed by it's understated magnificent facade never felt a need to go in. I am not unreligious just never felt the need.

Over 1000 years of Spanish history are housed in this church. It’s worth a visit.

 

[Gerard Griffin]

The caryatids above the altar are well worth a look. Nothing like them in any other Spanish cathedral I've see. I still haven't figured out what the artist is trying to say, but what the hell, they're beautiful.

 

[el-pe]

What struck me, was why walk to Santiago 12 times and never enter the cathedral? There are thousands of other walks throughout Europe and even more if we include the world. Why keep walking to the same place? I’ve only done it six times, but always enter the cathedral. Not being critical, just logical…albeit after a fair amount of vino tinto.

 

[Pafayac]

The caryatids above the altar are well worth a look. Nothing like them in any other Spanish cathedral I've see. I still haven't figured out what the artist is trying to say, but what the hell, they're beautiful.

It seems they are carrying a platform where Santiago is (on his horse):

 

[t2andreo]

IMHO, walking a Camino ending at Santiago and NOT visiting the Cathedral is like taking a long walk, without a clear purpose, like just taking a long walk around the block. Visiting the Cathedral, paying respects to the relics of Saint James therein, or simply spending quiet time in contemplation at the immense effort that went into building this massive edifice nearly one thousand years ago, makes the long walk a pilgrimage.

The original and ongoing primary purpose of walking a Camino into Santiago is precisely that - to reverence the person / relics of Saint James, the Cathedral, both, or any other spiritual purpose. To avoid that discounts your effort, turning it into a long walk, lacking a defined purpose other than mere arrival.

Instead of something that might provide spiritual benefit, the exercise becomes merely a long hike from point A to point B. To me, at least, this is sad. There is much benefit to be had even just sitting in quiet contemplation in the Cathedral when no Mass is occurring.

I respect the right of any pilgrim to walk their own pilgrimage, with whatever justification they desire - and there are many. But, it seems to me that walking to Santiago so many times, and not at least paying due homage or appreciation to the proverbial center of the entire Camino universe is like drinking dehydrated water. The primary, critical, essence of the entire thing is missing.

But this is just my opinion. Everyone is free to disagree.

Tom

 

[MariaMcCabe]

I wonder why you felt the need to say why you never felt the need?

Also my thought after reading that sentence. Seems a bit odd. I understand, from your other responses, that the journey is what matters most and that you feel just as connected in the mountains, etc., but the Cathedral is the end point - the culmination of the journey and the place where Saint James' relics lie. You said you were not "unreligious"...did it ever cross your mind to enter and say thank you for the 12 journeys? I'm not judging, simply asking.

I wonder why you felt the need to say why you never felt the need?

 

[MariaMcCabe]

IMHO, walking a Camino ending at Santiago and NOT visiting the Cathedral is like taking a long walk, without a clear purpose like just taking a long walk around the block. Visiting the Cathedral, paying respects to the relics of Saint James therein, or simply spending quiet time in contemplation at the immense effort that went into building this massive edifice nearly one thousand years ago, makes the long walk a pilgrimage.

The original and ongoing primary purpose of walking a Camino into Santiago is precisely that - to reverence the person / relics of Saint James, the Cathedral, both, or any other spiritual purpose. To avoid that discounts your effort, turning it into a long walk, lacking a defined purpose other than mere arrival.

Instead of something that might provide spiritual benefit, the exercise becomes merely a long hike from point A to point B. To me, at least, this is sad. There is much benefit to be had even just sitting in quiet contemplation in the Cathedral when no Mass is occurring.

I respect the right of any pilgrim to walk their own pilgrimage, with whatever justification they desire - and there are many. But, it seems to me that walking to Santiago so many times, and not at least paying due homage or appreciation to the proverbial center of the entire Camino universe is like drinking dehydrated water. The primary, critical, essence of the entire thing is missing.

But this is just my opinion. Everyone is free to disagree.

Tom

I agree completely, Tom. Why even do it at all - such an interesting discussion.

 

[Wanderingfriend]

FWIW, @MicMac, James A. Michener's book Iberia (1968) has incredible descriptions of the Cathedral, inside and out - architecturally, historically and artistically. I'm taking those 99 pages with me in a couple of weeks, for a more thorough appreciation when I arrive again...

I did the same. Michener’s book added so much depth to my visit. For me, the cathedral was important. We are all different.

 

[LTfit]

Going to the pilgrim's mass, giving a hug and thanks to Santiago and getting a Compostela are an integral part of my Caminos. Those rituals have meaning to me. Am I Catholic or even religious? Definitely not, but arriving in Santiago even after 16 or 17 (?) times still moves me and I can't imagine being there and not entering the Cathedral.

I've done Camino's where I haven't finished in Santiago but it doesn't feel the same.

 

[mike105]

Stealing from Groucho Marx, maybe you didn't want to be a member of a congregation that would have you as a member of the congregation.

 

[MickMac]

What struck me, was why walk to Santiago 12 times and never enter the cathedral? There are thousands of other walks throughout Europe and even more if we include the world. Why keep walking to the same place? I’ve only done it six times, but always enter the cathedral. Not being critical, just logical…albeit after a fair amount of vino tinto.

Sounds a wee bit critical, but horses for course's.

 

[JerryStroebele]

When I first entered the Cathedral I was stunned by the beautiful voice of the Singing Nun. On my last visit the Singing Priest was carrying on the ceremony equally well. The cleaning inside and outside has been remarkable. To miss the Pilgrims Mass is a great loss whatever your religion or spirituality or whether you have none. I am excited to attend in two weeks. My Army dog tags said Heathen. Take the Roof Top tour to appreciate our ancestors skills— and beliefs. Buen Camino

 

[Silencio Por Favor]

Interesting question that you are asking yourself. For me I would recommend anyone to experience the pilgrim's mass regardless of any beliefs or none.

Do you think that you will go next time?

 

[GaTeach]

I dipped in briefly both times I arrived in Santiago. I grew up evangelical, though, and the hordes of kids sprawling in the pews while the elderly stood really irrationally irritated me so I left. (Yeah, I know, different cultures and all that. I still didn't appreciate it)

I'd rather be hanging with pilgrims in the square and at the bars anyway.

 

[bullingtonce]

…and I wonder why I felt the need to click open this thread . The title said it all and I am questioning my own motive.

This means you are moving forward instead of being stuck in neutral. Go with the flow and see where it takes you. When a person doubts oneself, it is a reflection of delving into one's spirituality/heart. Let us know how it comes out. Chuck

 

[JustOneGuy]

To be honest I'm not really fascinated by the style of Santiago Cathedral and of many other churches I've visited in Spain. In general the baroque of Latin countries doesn't appeal to me much. I just don't understand it. As I've already explained I'm from Rome, maybe that's why. I find the Spanish Baroque all “unnecessarily exaggerated” and too triumphant and rethoric, and the quality of the works quite poor too.

Let's not talk about the altar, which I really find to be of dubious taste and questionable workmanship - stone me to death if you want for that .

And it is not a matter of nationalism, a concept that is quite alien to me. As I made clear recently in another tread I recently fell literally in love with Asturian pre-Romanesque, for example. It's just that for some reason I feel more drawn to the Renaissance and certain Gothic Fiorito, with the exception of some much more linear baroque Roman churches, with their white travertines (when not blackened by car pollution... ) and their much greater simplicity and geometry.

I mean, not so much the great basilicas like San Giovanni in Laterano but little masterpieces like San Carlo alle Quattro Fontane, by none other than Borromini.

p.s. obviously these are personal opinions about the style of the Cathedral, which have nothing to do with what it may represent to those who are believers.

 

[Old Bamboo]

I can't imagine after 12 times never feeling the need even once to simply step into the cathedral, the ultimate goal of your pilgrimage. But to each his own.

 

[KFH]

What struck me, was why walk to Santiago 12 times and never enter the cathedral? There are thousands of other walks throughout Europe and even more if we include the world. Why keep walking to the same place? I’ve only done it six times, but always enter the cathedral. Not being critical, just logical…albeit after a fair amount of vino tinto.

Exactly. Why walk to the same place year after year? And then every time.... after hours and hours and days and days and weeks and weeks... decide it's not good enough to walk into.

Add to this the need to tell everybody about it.

Next time-- and there will definitely be a next time and a next next time-- spend some time praying while you walk and when you get there, go inside and let go of whatever it is that you need to let go of.

 

[Dani7]

This means you are moving forward instead of being stuck in neutral. Go with the flow and see where it takes you. When a person doubts oneself, it is a reflection of delving into one's spirituality/heart. Let us know how it comes out. Chuck

I wish it was that profound but alas, after reflection it was just me being curious about what motivated the OP’s initial post. I still don’t get it. And that’s

 

[jflorez]

Walked the Camino to Santiago over 12 times now, never once did I go into the Cathedral.

I was impressed by it's understated magnificent facade never felt a need to go in. I am not unreligious just never felt the need.

Well, that's somewhat interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I honestly don't mean that flippantly. I mean, after walking the Camino 12 times, many more times than me, I don't see any advice, recommendation or personal experience that we may share that may sway you to go into the Cathedral next time. And, to be fair, you didn't ask for us to convince you why you should, though we're all inclined to do that because, for us, it does seem important - at least once.

In any case, I found it an interesting, if odd, post. I'm not even sure why I replied. But, here we are, so there you go.

 

[VNwalking]

So? And..??

 

[MickMac]

Exactly. Why walk to the same place year after year? And then every time.... after hours and hours and days and days and weeks and weeks... decide it's not good enough to walk into.

Add to this the need to tell everybody about it.

Next time-- and there will definitely be a next time and a next next time-- spend some time praying while you walk and when you get there, go inside and let go of whatever it is that you need to let go of.

Lot of assumptions there K, I pray more than most so that's one assumption wrong, it's probably the organised church I find difficult but not hostile too.
I have nothing to "let" go off, the walk is among the happiest moment's in my life.
Maybe it's the feeling of anti climax I feel in the hustle and bustle of Santiago, maybe not a conformist but a Rebel to the end.

 

[KariannNor]

Strange thread.. so many judgmental attitudes, why? isn't it ok for x to tell how x feel, without an agenda, a question, an opinion poll? Who are you to decide what and how to express here? Maybe the point was to provoke, then you've really nailed it Mac

 

[MickMac]

Strange thread.. so many judgmental attitudes, why? isn't it ok for x to tell how x feel, without an agenda, a question, an opinion poll? Who are you to decide what and how to express here? Maybe the point was to provoke, then you've really nailed it Mac

It was important to me looking for explanation sorry if I offended yourself and poor Keyser.
Time to call an end, debate is healthy.

 

[KeyserSoza]

Just as I said!

 

[KeyserSoza]

No offence intended or taken.

 

[Gerard Griffin]

I can understand the OP's position. I find more spiritual presence in the small churches along the way (like Moratinos) than in the SDC Cathedral, whose magnificence I admire, as well as those stunning and distracting caryatids. But there's something about the vibe, the 7 priests on the altar, the severe security, the smugness of thr place, that puts me off
Not to mention long the queues of tourists outside who never darken the doors of a church otherwise but come merely to gawk. Sometimes I don't bother to go, but I'm always glad when I do. An astonishing place, and the devotion of the pilgrims is always very moving.

 

[WayWalker]

Walked the Camino to Santiago over 12 times now, never once did I go into the Cathedral.

I was impressed by it's understated magnificent facade never felt a need to go in. I am not unreligious just never felt the need.

It's your perogative. Good on you! 12 caminos!!!!

 

[Gringazolana]

FWIW, @MicMac, James A. Michener's book Iberia (1968) has incredible descriptions of the Cathedral, inside and out - architecturally, historically and artistically. I'm taking those 99 pages with me in a couple of weeks, for a more thorough appreciation when I arrive again...

I just made extensive notes from this book to use next month!!

 

[Miki Goldie]

Then perhaps the rooftop tour is for you. Quite an exhilarating experience with great views. Only 10€.....Miki Goldie

 

[Camo]

The caryatids above the altar are well worth a look. Nothing like them in any other Spanish cathedral I've see. I still haven't figured out what the artist is trying to say, but what the hell, they're beautiful.

Thank you for informing me of the name of such "support ladies" as I had first met some on the Acropolis (Athens one) just 55 years ago when one was able to get "up close and personal" with them.

But my understanding (from inspection Street View) was these are little (boy) angels and that they have one hand and both feet "hanging loose" and are using their wings to hold up the "roof" like an original hovercraft

 

[Camo]

I'd rather be hanging with pilgrims in the square and at the bars anyway

Yes that is one of the main motivations, just hanging out and hopefully catching up with folk from the walk - and not just for Gen-Z but includes Millennials and even Gen-X.

What I would love to have explained to me is why such people (madding crowd?) kinda form circles, almost like crop circles - see image of square

 

[JabbaPapa]

To be honest I'm not really fascinated by the style of Santiago Cathedral and of many other churches I've visited in Spain. In general the baroque of Latin countries doesn't appeal to me much.

Well, Italy is of course a Latin country too ...

Personally, it's the French baroque that I find to be less appealing.

I just don't understand it.

The baroque aesthetic is hard to understand. Baroque originally meant (OED) irregularly shaped; whimsical, grotesque, odd, after all.

Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream is not at all easy, for instance, and it is his most explicitly baroque work. An easier baroque is his The Tempest, as the internal oppositions are simpler and more direct.

As I've already explained I'm from Rome, maybe that's why. I find the Spanish Baroque all “unnecessarily exaggerated” and too triumphant and rethoric, and the quality of the works quite poor too.

We're not really talking here about baroque churches in general here, but the Cathedral in Santiago -- which is Romanesque with some Gothic and Renaissance elements, and that imposing Baroque façade and some internal elements of various origins.

And the quality of these diverse elements is certainly not poor, though it's a shame that the pigmentation on some parts of the church, the Portico de la Gloria notably, has faded almost completely.

 

[dick bird]

The caryatids above the altar are well worth a look. Nothing like them in any other Spanish cathedral I've see. I still haven't figured out what the artist is trying to say, but what the hell, they're beautiful.

Maybe you need to visit some more Spanish cathedrals?

 

[Gerard Griffin]

There good, but not as beautiful and even seductive as their counterparts in Santiago.

 

[dick bird]

To be honest I'm not really fascinated by the style of Santiago Cathedral and of many other churches I've visited in Spain. In general the baroque of Latin countries doesn't appeal to me much.

As several of us have already pointed out, it is only the tacked on façade of Santiago (and the also tacked on north door) that are Baroque. The interior is pure Romanesque and the Porta de la Gloria is reckoned to be one of the greatest pieces of sculpture in any style, anywhere. But I take your point, up to a point: a lot of beautiful Gothic and Romanesque interiors in Spain have been cluttered up and obscured by later additions, generally Baroque, typically a yomping great choir plonked in the middle of the main nave completely destroying the integrity of the internal space and (perhaps not coincidentally) segregating the congregation from the altar. The Baroque just happened to coincide with Spain´s conquest of the Americas, with a massive influx of gold and creating a massive sense of their own self importance. It takes a mental effort to appreciate the intricately crafted glory of the Baroque and the austere grace of the Gothic and Romanesque, but it is worth it.

 

[Tincatinker]

Ah, innit always. Take a big, important building thats sat around for a few centuries and fiddle about with it in accord with current fashion..... Bi-fold doors on the back of your thatched cottage anyone?

Every time I visit Cordoba I'm minded of that most Holy Roman Emperor Charles V, who authorized the construction (plonking?) of that enormous Renaissance Nave in the centre of the Mezquita, and who is alleged to have said “they have taken something unique in all the world and destroyed it to build something you can find in any city.”

I wonder what was the view of local observers in Santiago and Seville and a thousand other cities as the Baroque filled and cluttered every perspective they'd ever had

 

[ShoshTrvls]

I can understand the OP's position. I find more spiritual presence in the small churches along the way (like Moratinos) than in the SDC Cathedral, whose magnificence I admire, as well as those stunning and distracting caryatids. But there's something about the vibe, the 7 priests on the altar, the severe security, the smugness of thr place, that puts me off
Not to mention long the queues of tourists outside who never darken the doors of a church otherwise but come merely to gawk. Sometimes I don't bother to go, but I'm always glad when I do. An astonishing place, and the devotion of the pilgrims is always very moving.

I think cathedrals like the one in Santiago were built for the very purpose of having people "gawk." As you note, if it was just so that there was a quiet contemplative place to pray, you wouldn't need all that gold and statuary, would you?

 

[Pafayac]

And the quality of these diverse elements is certainly not poor, though it's a shame that the pigmentation on some parts of the church, the Portico de la Gloria notably, has faded almost completely.

Pigmentation of Portico de Gloria is rather preserved, thanks to the other, external facade which protects it.
I don't know any other romanesque church with colors as well preserved, above all on exterior walls.

 

[Roland49]

Walked the Camino to Santiago over 12 times now, never once did I go into the Cathedral.

Been twice to SdC, first time (2019) the cathedral was undergoing massive renovation and the access was strictly limited. Second time in 2023 the mass was extremely overcrowded and they shut the doors on 200+ more waiting outside.

Went on a lovely dinner with Camino-family instead

 

[MickMac]

Scaffold was up a lot of the times I was there and restricted access even mass was in another church once maybe that was my initial reason

 

[MickMac]

Maybe you need to visit some more Spanish cathedrals?
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Was in the monastery isadoro in Leon staying in BB, the church was simple and magnifcent, blessing for pilgrims was humorous and great Roman architecture and ruìns on site always remembered.

 

[Tincatinker]

the very purpose of having people "gawk".

Gawk, wonderful acronym: Gaze And Wonder (and Keep paying your taxes)

 

[Kathor1]

I don't know how much it matters to @MickMac and pilgrims in general whether the Cathedral is Late Romanesque, Gothic or Baroque, or a mixture of all three. There's a word for the kind of remodelling that took place all over Europe and was quite popular: Baroquisation. I've never seen the word in English but it's on the net. Probably an attempt to translate it from German or French where the noun and the verb do exist: baroquiser and barockisieren.

For the Cathedral of Santiago, the most striking elements that are witness of this change are the facade of the Obradoiro Square and the main altar with all its gold and baby angels and teen angels - a popular motif in Baroque art.

Now that I think about it: I think I felt that I had arrived, that it was done, when we walked through the gate and saw the Obradoiro square for the first time. I never thought about this though. Like @MickMac, I am "not unreligious". I go inside a church for two reasons: either to see what it looks like or because I feel it's time once in a while to go and to participate and to listen to the sermon. And sometimes just because I need to rest my feet and be in the cool air instead of the heat outside. FWIW, at the time, the Cathedral was undergoing major restoration work and mass was held elsewhere.

 

[Kathor1]

BTW, the Cathedral is not really "in a dip". It is built over a large area that is not strictly horizontal but on a hill. You all have noticed this when you walked downwards along the Cathedral wall on the Azabacheria square, then down the steps with the bagpipe player and through the gate. Many words have been written about the architectural challenge that this territory posed for the builders at the lower (Western) end of the building.

 

[falcon269]

I think cathedrals like the one in Santiago were built for the very purpose of having people "gawk." As you note, if it was just so that there was a quiet contemplative place to pray, you wouldn't need all that gold and statuary, would you?

The history of the buildings on the Santiago site indicates that structures started as a modest local "church." Perhaps it became opulent because it was popular, not the other way around. I have more visits than the OP, and I have never failed to visit the cathedral. I try to understand what motivates the pilgrims' faith rather than mock or criticize it. With about 8.2 billion persons on Earth, each with a completely different universe and totally separate mind, my understanding will be incomplete forever. When millions come together in their understanding (as in a religion), I try to find what joins them.

Just me, I suppose. I am only one of the billions with 100 trillion of unique synapses of my own and they often arguing with each other.

 

[Kathor1]

cathedrals like the one in Santiago were built for the very purpose of having people "gawk." As you note, if it was just so that there was a quiet contemplative place to pray, you wouldn't need all that gold and statuary, would you?

Reducing Romanesque and Gothic cathedrals to mere prestige objects of the local bishop or archbishop (when he was the driving force behind a new building) or of the town (when the townspeople were the driving force) does not do them justice.

Lazy as I am, I took the following content from a website but it is standard and can be found in every book dealing with the topic of meaning of religious Romanesque architecture and art:

The notion of Romanesque style is used to describe artistic phenomena that took place around the turn of the first millennium in France and Germany, Italy and Spain. Painting, plastic arts, and artistic handicraft are central to the Christian doctrine of salvation, which used architecture as stage and backdrop. For people of that time, the church [building] was an image of the ‘Heavenly Jerusalem’. The construction of the church was meant to convey the Christian belief system.​

​

Cathedrals were also meant to inspire awe in the viewer and express devotion to and praise of the higher power. I've said this a few times already: Nobody needs to be interested in this but I agree with the previous post about trying to understand what motivates the pilgrims' faith rather than mock or criticize it. I myself am not so much interested in current beliefs of Camino pilgrims and other visitors to Santiago as I am interested in the beliefs and the world of those who created these works of art and architecture in the first place.

PS: The post is not addressed to anyone in particular.

 

[MickMac]

I don't know how much it matters to @MickMac and pilgrims in general whether the Cathedral is Late Romanesque, Gothic or Baroque, or a mixture of all three. There's a word for the kind of remodelling that took place all over Europe and was quite popular: Baroquisation. I've never seen the word in English but it's on the net. Probably an attempt to translate it from German or French where the noun and the verb do exist: baroquiser and barockisieren.

For the Cathedral of Santiago, the most striking elements that are witness of this change are the facade of the Obradoiro Square and the main altar with all its gold and baby angels and teen angels - a popular motif in Baroque art.

Now that I think about it: I think I felt that I had arrived, that it was done, when we walked through the gate and saw the Obradoiro square for the first time. I never thought about this though. Like @MickMac, I am "not unreligious". I go inside a church for two reasons: either to see what it looks like or because I feel it's time once in a while to go and to participate and to listen to the sermon. And sometimes just because I need to rest my feet and be in the cool air instead of the heat outside. FWIW, at the time, the Cathedral was undergoing major restoration work and mass was held elsewhere.

Spot on Kath took all this thread to nail it.

 

[ShoshTrvls]

Reducing Romanesque and Gothic cathedrals to mere prestige objects of the local bishop or archbishop (when he was the driving force behind a new building) or of the town (when the townspeople were the driving force) does not do them justice.

Lazy as I am, I took the following content from a website but it is standard and can be found in every book dealing with the topic of meaning of religious Romanesque architecture and art:

The notion of Romanesque style is used to describe artistic phenomena that took place around the turn of the first millennium in France and Germany, Italy and Spain. Painting, plastic arts, and artistic handicraft are central to the Christian doctrine of salvation, which used architecture as stage and backdrop. For people of that time, the church [building] was an image of the ‘Heavenly Jerusalem’. The construction of the church was meant to convey the Christian belief system.​

​

Cathedrals were also meant to inspire awe in the viewer and express devotion to and praise of the higher power. I've said this a few times already: Nobody needs to be interested in this but I agree with the previous post about trying to understand what motivates the pilgrims' faith rather than mock or criticize it. I myself am not so much interested in current beliefs of Camino pilgrims and other visitors to Santiago as I am interested in the beliefs and the world of those who created these works of art and architecture in the first place.

PS: The post is not addressed to anyone in particular.

I don’t disagree at all regarding “inspiring all” - I was using “gawk” in a broader sense, indeed in the sense that I related my experience at St. Peter’s.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

Maybe you need to visit some more Spanish cathedrals?
View attachment 178950View attachment 178951View attachment 178952View attachment 178953View attachment 178954View attachment 178955

But these are not caryatids. Caryatids are female adult figures carved into support columns for larger structures.

 

[Tincatinker]

But these are not caryatids. Caryatids are female adult figures carved into support columns for larger structures.

I'll not post copyrighted material here but the curious might like to view two classic Caryatid carved by Rodin. "Fallen Caryatid Carrying Her Stone" and "La Belle qui fut Heaulmière" both from the Gates of Hell.

Puts those plump little putti and all that curvaceous flesh of the Baroque into another context

 

[KFH]

Lot of assumptions there K, I pray more than most so that's one assumption wrong, it's probably the organised church I find difficult but not hostile too.
I have nothing to "let" go off, the walk is among the happiest moment's in my life.
Maybe it's the feeling of anti climax I feel in the hustle and bustle of Santiago, maybe not a conformist but a Rebel to the end.

Sorry, no wish to offend. It's just that it's such an interesting thing that you've made that repeated choice for your life for a decade or more. Assumptions, questions, and opinions are the logical outcome of your post.

And you yourself say not going in "baffles me" and admit it's "strange" and even say "Maybe? I am just weird or sad"

Speculation about such actions and statements is normal and logical.

Imagine if we saw each other at the pub every week and every spring you asked me where I was going on vacation the coming summer and I said "Walking to San Siro stadium from Frankfurt". You might say:

"Didn't you do that last year?"

"The last twelve years, actually. Sometimes I'll walk from Marseille."

"Wow! You must be a huge Milan fan"

"Not really."

"You must really love those matches there, though? What's the stadium like?"

"Never been inside actually."

"You've walked there twelve times and never bothered to go to a match or even go inside?"

"Just wasn't feeling it. I got on a plane and went back home"

"For twelve years?"

[another guy at the bar] "Well, there are plenty of better looking stadiums"


--------------------------------------------------------------

 

[OTH86]

...Every time I visit Cordoba I'm minded of that most Holy Roman Emperor Charles V, who authorized the construction (plonking?) of that enormous Renaissance Nave in the centre of the Mezquita, and who is alleged to have said “they have taken something unique in all the world and destroyed it to build something you can find in any city.”

The first time I saw the Mezquita, I was returning home from living in the
Sahal for 3 years, and found this juxtaposition (not sure this is the right word, but...) of religions fascinating.

 

[alexwalker]

My first 2 CF, I went into the Cathedral. After that, no need. But I always admire the exterior. The Praza de Obradeiro is my destination. But next time (God willing), I will take that roof tour.

 

[Tincatinker]

The first time I saw the Mezquita, I was returning home from living in the
Sahal for 3 years, and found this juxtaposition (not sure this is the right word, but...) of religions fascinating. Would I be wrong if I thought some places might learn a lesson...

We can’t really go there while we’re here. The forum’s rules are there for the benefit of everyone.

I would urge anyone passing through Cordoba to visit the Mezquita ( it’s free to get in, and largely free of coach tour crowds, until 10:00am) and spend some time in that surprising Cathedral. And to spend some time with their back to those walls and take the opportunity to imagine that it isn’t there.

I know of no other place, other than the Hagia Sophia, that can offer such a profound juxtaposition.

I guess that’s why I find comfort in Santiago when I visit himself. One building, one purpose, one place. No need to try and get my head around a bunch of conflicting propositions

 

[Camo]

Scaffold was up a lot of the times I was there and restricted access even mass was in another church once maybe that was my initial reason

The clue for me would be the date of first visit of 2013 when the "front doors" WERE already closed (according to the popular advice here)

 

[Camo]

plastic arts, and artistic handicraft are central to the Christian doctrine of salvation, which used architecture as stage and backdrop. For people of that time, the church [building] was an image of the ‘Heavenly Jerusalem’.

Yes indeed and maybe it is the engineer in me but I see total genius with what you describe as "boy angels" that appear to be holding up a huge platform with just one hand each (and a totally "it's really easy for us" look of boredom on their faces).

But the truth is that platform could not cantilever that distance and there are in fact 3 major wooden struts down each side. Then the artistry task was to mould a "plastic angel" over each one to hide the "Earthly" function and create a "Heavenly" one (where everything is hunky dory) - ie simple marketing of the product as seen in any TV advert

 

[dick bird]

But these are not caryatids. Caryatids are female adult figures carved into support columns for larger structures.

No, I realise that. But they are representations of angels, which is what I thought @Gerald Griffin was referring to.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

No, I realise that. But they are representations of angels, which is what I thought @Gerald Griffin was referring to.

OK. I’m confused… but that’s sometimes what happened when a thread gets very choppy.

 

[TravellingMan22]

Walked the Camino to Santiago over 12 times now, never once did I go into the Cathedral.

I was impressed by it's understated magnificent facade never felt a need to go in. I am not unreligious just never felt the need.

I have walked 5 caminos and been in once. I am not religious, I don’t pray, or sit in churches and attend services, just a very quick walk through as conscious I am on ‘other people’s turf who may be practising), and I see the square as the end of the trail. But it is a big lovely historic building so it warranted a visit. Same in Firenze, Lyon and the mosques of say Istanbul and Ahu Dhabi I guess. Queues always seem to be big so I wouldn’t certainly spend time queuing. Not sure how many folks go into the cathedral after they finish their trek.

 

[Steven Baggs]

Interesting thread. I've walked 8 Camino's. Visiting the Cathedral is all part of the ritual for me. Hugging the statue of St James (last year, the first time since Covid) and more importantly, visiting the tomb of St James to say a prayer of thanks for getting me there once again and to give thanks for my fellow pilgrims with whom I shared the journey.

 

[JDKOcean]

Walked the Camino to Santiago over 12 times now, never once did I go into the Cathedral.

I was impressed by its understated magnificent facade never felt a need to go in. I am not unreligious just never felt the need.

Huh, missed a lot of the whole experience- 13 times id say

 

[Mr_Ross_Duncan]

Mentioning this topic to my wife who summed it up nicely "We'll that's just showing a lack of imagination".
I'm not sure whether she meant walking the same path over 12 times, (presumably that's 13), or no imagination and curiosity by missing the church.

 

[Derrybiketours]

Interesting topic of discussion and not sure what to say that hasn't already been said only to suggest to our pilgrim friend @MickMac that maybe like many of Us you're still on your Camino and when are you planning your 13th, 14th...?
I had a similar experience not walking from Finisterre out to the lighthouse and after 2 weeks discovering the town I answered the 'Call'. It was life changing and in my personal experience the Teacher appears when the student is ready

 

[Helen Robinson]

Walked the Camino to Santiago over 12 times now, never once did I go into the Cathedral.

I was impressed by it's understated magnificent facade never felt a need to go in. I am not unreligious just never felt the need.

And?

 

[pjacobi]

I've toured many, many churches and cathedrals throughout Europe. There are all great historical architectural museums, but there always seemed to be something missing. That is until I walked into a church and Mass was in progress. Although it was in a foreign language, my Roman Catholic background enabled me to know exactly what was happening and what was being said. The Mass is the whole reason for the place! You must first understand and appreciate the Mass and then the whole place make sense.

I've also been in Protestant churches throughout Europe and feel a little out of place. I just accept the differences and appreciate our common Chirstian heritage.


-Paul

 

[tpardini]

If still in Santiago I would recommend popping in to have a wander around. I think that the recent renovation was just wonderful, restoring the flow of the cathedral back to its origins and bringing in very sympathetic modern features (specifically the lighting which is I think is very beautiful and while clearly modern is used in an unobtrusive way and in fact highlights features).

I was in the plaza today and it didn’t look as if “popping in” was an option. There were 2 long lines, front and side doors (one was extremely long, winding out into the plaza). We went to the tourist office though to validate completing the walk, and that was a breeze.

 

[Madamjoy]

Walked the Camino to Santiago over 12 times now, never once did I go into the Cathedral.

I was impressed by its understated magnificent facade never felt a need to go in. I am not unreligious just never felt the need.

The only time I went inside I was shocked at the spectacle…during mass iphones held high, people filming, chatting, jostling each other for a better view. To me it was a big performance and didn’t feel sacred. Never went back. I now go to the mass at the pilgrim office if I feel like it. I sometimes visit the lovely sister upstairs in FcJ. I find spirituality walking the path, attending mass in small churches, and wxperiencing a glorious sunrise . The Cathedral is not a motive for me to walk a Camino. I walk other routes (non Caminos) and find the same spirituality. Some replies to the op have been judgmental imo. Someone tells him next time he should pray? Others say he misses whole point of the Camino. Really? What is happening to this community that we make such unkind comments. Is it no longer a safe place to share one’s thoughts?

 

[SabsP]

I was in the plaza today and it didn’t look as if “popping in” was an option. There were 2 long lines, front and side doors (one was extremely long, winding out into the plaza). We went to the tourist office though to validate completing the walk, and that was a breeze.

I think you mean Oficina de Peregrinos when you write tourist office? Did you collect your Compostela after your pilgrimage ? In that case you were at the Oficina de Peregrinos.

 

[WGroleau]

It’s your life and you can do what you like. I think it’s odd to continually walk a path that is literally to a place that you don’t visit, but you do you. For me, I like to visit key places in cities I visit, religious or secular.

I went in once in the many days I spent in the city. Might have done more, but every other time there was a queue that I didn't have the patience for.

 

[WGroleau]

The only time I went inside I was shocked at the spectacle…during mass iphones held high, people filming, chatting, jostling each other for a better view. To me it was a big performance and didn’t feel sacred.

The church in Los Arcos has a sign on the door "Shhh! It's a church"
But inside, there were a few locals having a very loud conversation right in the center of the room. It (Los Arcos) was so gaudy I found it oppressive. The centuries of grime on the artwork didn't help. The contrast to the extremely simple one in Villamayor de Monjardín is amazing.

 

[MickMac]

The only time I went inside I was shocked at the spectacle…during mass iphones held high, people filming, chatting, jostling each other for a better view. To me it was a big performance and didn’t feel sacred. Never went back. I now go to the mass at the pilgrim office if I feel like it. I sometimes visit the lovely sister upstairs in FcJ. I find spirituality walking the path, attending mass in small churches, and wxperiencing a glorious sunrise . The Cathedral is not a motive for me to walk a Camino. I walk other routes (non Caminos) and find the same spirituality. Some replies to the op have been judgmental imo. Someone tells him next time he should pray? Others say he misses whole point of the Camino. Really? What is happening to this community that we make such unkind comments. Is it no longer a safe place to share one’s thoughts?