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Just a small point, not really a spelling issue but, given that you mentioned it. An Auberge in France is more typically a restaurant, which these days may or may not have hotel type accommodation attached. It’s usually not the equivalent of an albergue in Spain.Auberge is the correct spelling in French, so I won’t count that as a misspelling.
Yes, incorrectly spoken with the stress on the first syllable like the name Francis, instead of where it belongs on the second syllable - Francés.when people refer to "the Camino Francis".
Well, then, that means that I can add “auberge” to my list of favorite misspellings of albergue. Thanks!Pilgrim accommodation in France is typically in a gite, not an Auberge.
I take it you are including the mistake of sticking in an apostrophe, where none belongs. I think someone once told me that Brierley spelled it O’Cebreiro, so that might explain it.All the variants of O Cebreiro.
He did. I think it may have been a tip of his hat to his Irish ancestry....I think someone once told me that Brierley spelled it O’Cebreiro, so that might explain it.
Yep i've bean piked up on that one okasionlyALBERGUE, not albUrgue, not albUrgE, not albUErgue, not albergE, not aUbergue, not alberQue.
Or in Australia, among other places, ‘capitalise’.I still haven't figured out when to capitalize camino.
Camino Frances. Camino Ingles. Camino Madrid. All nouns. Hacer camino- go for a walkI still haven't figured out when to capitalize camino.
So true! But here is a fascinating example of how things can turn out otherwise, from a simple misspelling. Lourde versus Lourdes. The article is old and I do not see any updates. So perhaps it is less apt to happen now. Either sounds like a great pilgrimage to me, and I wonder if there *are* towns actually named close but not quite on main pilgrimage routes?If you look for trains going to Pondeferra or Bilboa, you’re not going to find any!
I think that big O looks very lonely sitting all by itself. I admit to being an abuser of that apostrophe. I have BrierlEy's guide books and also have Irish relatives through marriages.I take it you are including the mistake of sticking in an apostrophe, where none belongs. I think someone once told me that Brierley spelled it O’Cebreiro, so that might explain it.
I believe it was George Dubya who thanked Austrian troops - in a speech in Australia.A American President while on a visit to Australia made a speach and said he would like to thank the Austrian Navy for their help.
I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to start a thread asking why people so often spell albergue with a q, so this is the clear winner for me.ALBERGUE, not albUrgue, not albUrgE, not albUErgue, not albergE, not aUbergue, not alberQue.
I take it you are including the mistake of sticking in an apostrophe, where none belongs. I think someone once told me that Brierley spelled it O’Cebreiro, so that might explain it.
Possibly a few Americans not paying close attention. The "q" looks very similar to a "g" (alberque), similar to Albuquerque, New Mexico with its que ending...just a thought as to possibly "why" people may think it is correct...forum newbies perhaps?I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to start a thread asking why people so often spell albergue with a q, so this is the clear winner for me.
An English friend of mine was a schoolteacher and had to mark some homework about local wildlife. One girl mentioned "egog" several times. Martin tells me he took a minute or so before realising that it was a vaguely phonetic version of the local pronunciation of "hedgehog"....Years of marking semiliterate essays have taught me to censor my comments, especially after impressing on a delinquent the importance of poofreading (sic!)
Is that the proper distinction?Camino Frances. Camino Ingles. Camino Madrid. All nouns. Hacer camino- go for a walk
Is that reading a book while seated on a misspelled footstool?Ah, be kind! Some of the offenders may not be native speakers of English; others may be dyslexic. Years of marking semiliterate essays have taught me to censor my comments, especially after impressing on a delinquent the importance of poofreading (sic!)
Sorry, but there ARE places in France that call themselves "auberge," Auberge Borda being a good example.Well, then, that means that I can add “auberge” to my list of favorite misspellings of albergue. Thanks!
Or Abri.Pilgrim accommodation in France is typically in a gite, not an Auberge.
Yes, and as I know it, it is the "marrying" of a car and a truck in America around 1970.The one that bugs me the most (which has been mentioned) is when people refer to "the El Camino."
I just spit my coffee.Ronsy-vall. Ronsays-valleys. Ron-scavole.
Exactly the same for me (unless, perhaps, they are talking about a route in Italy).So many to choose from...! The one which does tend to set my teeth on edge most is when people refer to "the Camino Francis".
You mean not even hearing Pilgrim spoken like John Wayne?And the most adorable thing is to hear "muchas gracias" said in whatever accent with a big smile
Most native English speakers mispronounce Estella - the double L makes a Y sound, not an L sound.Estella (town in Navarra) versus Estrella (beer)
In Galician A and O are both definite articles and mean the. The plural forms are as and os. I know that I was initially confused about the route named the Camiño dos Faros, because I thought that it meant that there were two lighthouses, but in this case it's the way of the lighthouses - dos means of the, not two as in Spanish.I think that big O looks very lonely sitting all by itself.
It's not the English words that people have problems with, it's the commonly used Spanish words on the Camino.Ah, be kind! Some of the offenders may not be native speakers of English;
Well, Masada is a high, dry plateau.Two mispronunciations that other pilgrims used that drove me a bit bonkers were the guy that kept called the Meseta the Masada, and a woman who pronounced Rioja as Rioka.
But, as mentioned at https://www.italki.com/en/post/question-313441,Most native English speakers mispronounce Estella - the double L makes a Y sound, not an L sound.
But Estella isn't in Catalonia! Nor is there a dot between the Ls.But, as mentioned at https://www.italki.com/en/post/question-313441,
In Catalan, the double L is pronounced the same way as in Spanish, BUT if you see a dot between the "L's", that means that you have to pronounce a longer "L".
I still haven't figured out when to capitalize camino.
Camino Frances. Camino Ingles. Camino Madrid. All nouns. Hacer camino- go for a walk
Almost. The examples were all "proper nouns" - the official names of something - so they should be capitalized.Is that the proper distinction?
Or "the Del Norte"The one that bugs me the most (which has been mentioned) is when people refer to "the El Camino."
I suppose it is officially the Camino del Norte.Or "the Del Norte"
???Pintxos.
So - "the C/camino"? ..."my C/camino"? ..."on C/camino"?Camino Frances. Camino Ingles. Camino Madrid. All nouns. Hacer camino- go for a walk
Yes. Not the Camino Del Norte.I suppose it is officially the Camino del Norte.
Curiously Bilboa makes sense in Euskera. Bilbo is Bilbao in that language and the "a" at the end is the article "the". So, Bilboa would be "El Bilbao" .Nobody has mentioned the (incorrect) double L spelling of Compostela. With two Ls it would have a different pronunciation.
And let's not forget Bilboa.
Pincho, Pintxo. Both are correct. "tx" is "ch" in Euskera. Pincho = Tapa and Pintxo is a Tapa Basque style.Yes, but I often see “pinchos”.
Not about the camino but along similar (but worse!) lines, think for a moment about the baseball team called ‘The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim’. I’ll wait below.Yes. Not the Camino Del Norte."The Del Norte" is like saying "The of the North".
There are!Their are too many to count.
It's Pinchos in Spanish, outside of the pintxos region. Further south in Castilla than the Francès, you *never* encounter the pintxos spelling.???
That's the correct spelling.
Pronunciation of -ll- varies between Spaniards ; in the way I learned it in Catalonia (Castilian spoken in the Catalan manner, not Catalàn itself), there's a silent -l- before the -y-. Some other Spaniards would pronounce the -l- more audibly.Most native English speakers mispronounce Estella - the double L makes a Y sound, not an L sound.
Well, there "Camino" is implicit, as in "the (Camino) Del Norte", so that one's not incorrect, in English anyway.Or "the Del Norte"
Except when it's a verb :Camino Frances. Camino Ingles. Camino Madrid. All nouns. Hacer camino- go for a walk
Mispronounce it when they speak Spanish or mispronounce it when they speak English?Most native English speakers mispronounce Estella - the double L makes a Y sound, not an L sound.
I asked the taxi driver in Sarria to tell me how to say the name. Where is the accent. She pronounced it like Sorry-ya, not Sa-Rye-ya.
Have little idea how to pronounce French, so Roncesvalles is still a mystery to me. Raunches-Val? Raunches-valley? What is it?
Took me a while to realize Castrojeriz was one word, not 2.
The name I use is Jo. How should I tell Spanish speakers my name? I don't want to be called Ho.
YesLaurie, What a can of worms you just opened.
I sympathize. I absolutely hate being called Ricardo. Growing up I way too often was called Ricky Ricardo, a character played by Desi Arnaz on the I Love Lucy TV show.The name I use is Jo. How should I tell Spanish speakers my name? I don't want to be called Ho.
South Korea became a republic after World War 2 and had its first democratic election in 1948. The newly-elected president was married to an Austrian lady (the marriage occurred while he was living in the United States). Koreans commonly refer to someone's wife as Mrs. wherever she was born: e.g. Mrs. California, Mrs. Indiana, etc., and the first lady was mistakenly referred to as Mrs. Australia.A American President while on a visit to Australia made a speach and said he would like to thank the Austrian Navy for their help.
I’m sorry you are annoyed by this; we don’t know what burdens others are carrying, so perhaps it’s best not to judge. But feel free to rant tho’.The other annoying thing while walking El Camino del Norte () recently was walkers who passed me at the speed of light (that in itself is ok) and without looking sideways mumbled “buencamino” in one syllable with a flat tone sounding more like a f-U. But I digress.
I asked the taxi driver in Sarria to tell me how to say the name. Where is the accent. She pronounced it like Sorry-ya, not Sa-Rye-ya.
Have little idea how to pronounce French, so Roncesvalles is still a mystery to me. Raunches-Val? Raunches-valley? What is it?
Took me a while to realize Castrojeriz was one word, not 2.
The name I use is Jo. How should I tell Spanish speakers my name? I don't want to be called Ho.
Being a Roland who has occasionally walked through Roncesvalles has drawn the odd comment over the years. With every one thinking they are being highly original....I sympathize. I absolutely hate being called Ricardo.
Yes, she did, and it's turned into a lot of "splitting hairs".
Huh? How do English people pronounce Volkswagen? I’m a native German speaker, and I’ve never heard Volkswagen pronounced any other way than the way I would say it.Mispronounce it when they speak Spanish or mispronounce it when they speak English?
I would probably pronounce Estella with an L sound in English as I want to be understood and not show off my Spanish. This is actually a personal pet peeve of mine - people who pronounce for example Volkswagen or Skoda in English the way they are pronounced in German or Czech (and if they knew how to produce the letter Š on their keyboard they would probably write it that way in English, too).
I know that the thread started with a discussion of common misspellings on the forum but has branched out into how to write and pronounce geographical words for locations of foreign countries in English. It is a minefield.
So, for writing in English: Camino Francés or Camino Frances? Navarra or Navarre? I always write Navarra although I know that it ought to be Navarre in English. O Cebreiro or Cebrero or El Cebrero? And while we are at it: La Coruña or A Coruña or just Coruña? Sevilla or Seville?
As to Santiago de Compostela: You don't have to cut some extra slack for non-native speakers of English but have some mercy for the multilingual writers who are used to seeing the name of the town in Galicia correctly written with two ll in Saint-Jacques-de-Compostelle (French), Santiago de Compostella (Dutch) and of course as Compostella in Latin on their Compostela document. When they write it with ll in English we can perhaps coin the term "Albuquerque effect" for this error.
As to the correct pronunciation of Roncesvalles in English, I have no idea. It is called Roncevaux in French and that's probably how many people heard the name of this location first pronounced at school in history class or literature class. Even the English Wikipedia article about Roncesvalles refers to the Battle of Roncevaux and offers the English spellings of Roncevaux Pass, Roncesvalles Pass and Ronceval Pass for the pass that is called Puerto de Ibañeta in Spanish.
There is a neighbourhood called Roncesvalles in Toronto, Canada ... click on the loudspeaker icon in the English Wikipedia article about Roncesvalles, Toronto to hear how it is pronounced in English.
As long as it's not grammar or punctuation. Saints preserve us, as 'the sisters' used to say.Yes, she did, and it's turned into a lot of "splitting hairs".
Maybe someone should start a thread on idioms next.
We Brits are divided on the matter. Some of us would pronounce the "w" more like an English 'v' (as in Victoria) while others would sound it as 'w' (as in 'world'). The latter is probably more common.Huh? How do English people pronounce Volkswagen? I’m a native German speaker, and I’ve never heard Volkswagen pronounced any other way than the way I would say it.
French : Roncevaux.Have little idea how to pronounce French, so Roncesvalles is still a mystery to me. Raunches-Val? Raunches-valley? What is it?
Yes indeed, and one really does need to look up the hyphenating for each individual village, town, or city named after a Saint and etc.the correct spelling in both English and French is Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port.
Would that be the waterproof version?I occasionally see marino wool instead of merino wool
Here in Spain now there are lots of news about a Catalan politician who lives in Waterloo. Almost everybody here say it in English like Abba when the Spanish pronunciation is closer to the original Flemish ( I think). Vaterló.
Ok, away from spelling, and into pronunciation, that's ok...because I do love words, but am not keen on discussing spelling on this forum...you have drawn me in!As for the variations of “croissant”! Pronunciation and spelling.
No, that's merainoWould that be the waterproof version?
Actually, the official name of Los Angeles (in the state of California, USA) is:Yes, weird, but at least "Los Angeles" is the official name of the city.
Thank you for this comment! That's really interesting - that the Spanish pronunciation of the name of this smallish town in Belgium, albeit with a name known throughout Europe, is currently being replaced by the English pronunciation in Spanish news media. I do wonder, actually and now that you pointed this out, whether it has something to do with the widely known Abba song. It would not surprise me if this is how linguistic shifts occur.Here in Spain now there are lots of news about a Catalan politician who lives in Waterloo. Almost everybody here say it in English like Abba when the Spanish pronunciation is closer to the original Flemish ( I think). Vaterló.
Or your uncle’s irritated wife.Ok, away from spelling, and into pronunciation, that's ok...because I do love words, but am not keen on discussing spelling on this forum...you have drawn me in!
Spanish person speaking French, heard by a Scot...I could not quite get the word I was hearing but it turned out to be that word you quote. What I heard was coor-a-son.
That one is in the opening credits of "The Way". 'Estrella' is printed on the map.Estella (town in Navarra) versus Estrella (beer) - I always have to catch myself on this one
In Spain many people think that W is always pronounced like in English. Same for German words. Normative Spanish is W= VThank you for this comment! That's really interesting - that the Spanish pronunciation of the name of this smallish town in Belgium, albeit with a name known throughout Europe, is currently being replaced by the English pronunciation in Spanish news media. I do wonder, actually and now that you pointed this out, whether it has something to do with the widely known Abba song. It would not surprise me if this is how linguistic shifts occur.
BTW, today's Waterloo is located in the French-speaking part of Belgium; the current population is predominantly French-speaking (with about 18% expats and that includes the Catalan politician). Those who pay close attention will notice that the 'correct' pronunciation of Waterloo depends on whether you speak about the town in French, or in Dutch, or in English etc etc. And that kind of difference in pronunciation is considered to be quite normal ...
I wouldn't worry about the French pronunciation of Roncesvalles. Save that for Roncevaux.Have little idea how to pronounce French, so Roncesvalles is still a mystery to me. Raunches-Val? Raunches-valley? What is it?
Goodness, I am intrigued and will have to rewatch the opening credits now! I remember scenes of slow progress on a map after Tom receives the call - is that where you saw it?That one is in the opening credits of "The Way".
When I am in Spain, I give my last name as Tayan. That way they are more likely to spell it correctly or recognize it when they see it. It is just something I have learned to accept.The name I use is Jo. How should I tell Spanish speakers my name? I don't want to be called Ho.
Ok, away from spelling, and into pronunciation, that's ok...because I do love words, but am not keen on discussing spelling on this forum...you have drawn me in!
Spanish person speaking French, heard by a Scot...I could not quite get the word I was hearing but it turned out to be that word you quote. What I heard was coor-a-son.
How often does W occur at the beginning of Spanish words for Spanish people to become familiar with its correct pronunciation in that position? I had heard Wamba was very unusual in that respect.In Spain many people think that W is always pronounced like in English. Same for German words. Normative Spanish is W= V
Then, there are many people here who say Wamba ( Camino de Madrid) instead of Vamba.
Yes, Wamba is the only oneHow often does W occur at the beginning of Spanish words for Spanish people to become familiar with its correct pronunciation in that position? I had heard Wamba was very unusual in that respect.
I blame the Wisigoths.Yes, Wamba is the only one
Oh no, someone earlier in this thread, (was it this thread?) already intoned one US President Bush, nucular (for nuclearwe're bringing pronunciation into this debate, may I mention the number of people who think that the word for the way that people pronounce words is 'pronounciation'.
I often hear it pronounced pungkin.… seasonal punkin.
Though slightly better than hearing it pronounced “Rio-jah” (with “j” as in “jump”!Nobody has mentioned the (incorrect) double L spelling of Compostela. With two Ls it would have a different pronunciation.
And let's not forget Bilboa.
Most native English speakers mispronounce Estella - the double L makes a Y sound, not an L sound.
In Galician A and O are both definite articles and mean the. The plural forms are as and os. I know that I was initially confused about the route named the Camiño dos Faros, because I thought that it meant that there were two lighthouses, but in this case it's the way of the lighthouses - dos means of the, not two as in Spanish.
It's not the English words that people have problems with, it's the commonly used Spanish words on the Camino.
Two mispronunciations that other pilgrims used that drove me a bit bonkers were the guy that kept called the Meseta the Masada, and a woman who pronounced Rioja as Rioka.
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