Pilgrim shame

[Anemone del Camino]

I understand there are some with clear limitations, just as I could not physically walk 35 km a day unless I planned on arriving at 8pm,p night after night, hence why I did not walk the Norte when I first wanted to, back in 2007. It was simply not possible, at least in my mind, so I walked the CF.

But it feels as if now that I know there ways to shorten days, walk less, the temptation is there when it wasn't there when I had not learned about all these ways. So who am I cheating now by trying to wiggle out from what I can do?

 

[Jacobus]

While staying at the albergue in Uterga I met another pilgrim at the evening meal. He entertained his fellow pilgrims with various stories of his many travels and of encountering a taxi on the Way in which several people were travelling with their backpacks, all of whom ducked down as the vehicle passed him. He coined the wonderful phrase 'pilgrim shame' to describe this phenomenon. Have other members of the forum witnessed/been 'guilty of' instances of 'pilgrim shame'?

The only shame is the use of such a judgemental term.

 

[SusieQ2]

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The only shame is the use of such a judgemental term.

The original post used the term to describe the embarrassment of the pilgrim himself, not making fun of the pilgrim or shaming the pilgrim, or judging the pilgrim. The thread seemed to evolve from there. A true pilgrim would certainly feel disappointment, and maybe unnecessary shame if not able to complete the walk by foot. I personally took the original post as a light-hearted post with a bit of humor in coining the the term for that feeling that one might have himself. The question was proposed to ask if anyone here had felt "pilgrim shame". Sadly, the experiences shared seem to be of those who actually experienced "pilgrim shame" from others in a judgmental way... which is not humorous at all. But it is good know what to expect; some people are just heartless.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

The only shame is the use of such a judgemental term.

Jacobus, this is why in the text of my OP the phrase was placed within inverted commas. My subsequent posts have made perfectly clear that it was not about judging others, rather how unforgiving of themselves pilgrims can be when circumstances prevent them from walking in the way they had hoped to be able to do. One of the aims of many of the contributions to this and many other threads is surely to feel free to talk about how sometime we feel that we haven't quite measured up to what we expected of ourselves and our bodies, and then to learn that it was the same for others and that we should stop feeling bad about it because, as two earlier posts made clear, it is all about what is in our hearts. We can make a good start by feeling compassion for ourselves in difficult situations. Being non-judgemental about others then surely follows from this.

 

[Jacobus]

Thank you for your explanation. I didn't mean to suggest you or your fellow posters were judging others. This was not your intent. I simply think the term used is harsh and judgemental. Other posters have softened the meaning as have you and SusieQ2 when you clarified your meaning in later posts.

 

[Pingüigrino]

Besides the "head and feet, " "I guess it all comes down to where your heart is", I can hear my late father's voice saying to me as a teen. I pray that I may stay focused on my own personal reasons for attempting the pilgrimage. Pride goeth before a fall and I hope to be humbled along the way without a fall, literally. Some people always look for the easy the path, but only the one wearing the shoes knows their own footprints. I can only imagine that the honeymooning couple mentioned was collecting souvenirs for memories of their honeymoon in the same way that my son collects stamps from National Parks on our camping adventures.
I have a clergy friend who is interested in going at the same time I do, but physical limitations will not allow her to walk. If she goes, she will not travel by foot, but her heart will be in the right place. No shame there. A certificate is not the real reward.

Many of pilgrims (I`m one of those) think that this "little paper sheet" means nothing. One old pilgrim can walk from the other side of the world for, said, four months, but when leaving Monte del Gozo albergue fall to the floor and break an ankle. This pilgrim have not rigth to get the Compostela.
A group of students start the Camino at Sarria, sending theirs packs by taxi, taking a whole week to arriving to Santiago, because they are partyng each nigth. When they get their Compostela, they go to a bar to continue the celebration.
Who deserve the Compostela?
But, of course, this old pilgrim, whom is coming out the Hospital, is much more a pilgrim than the students.
Dont give importance to that "little paper sheet" mates. It´s OK to get it, but its only a souvenir.
Treasure the memories, the feelings, the frienship, the laughs and tears of pain and joy. THIS is the "Real Compostela", I think. And nobody can deny your rigth to have it, if you feel you deserve it.
My apologies if the "speech" seems scholastic. or arrogant, it is not my intention, but my english is a little bit limitated; sometimes it is difficult for me to express the full sense of what I want to say.
Buen Camino.

 

[DurhamParish]

Many of pilgrims (I`m one of those) think that this "little paper sheet" means nothing. One old pilgrim can walk from the other side of the world for, said, four months, but when leaving Monte del Gozo albergue fall to he floor and break an ankle. This pilgrim have not rigth to get the Compostela.

I think this "old pilgrim" you describe would have the right to get a Compostela. He/She would have all of the proper stamps. Just head over to the Pilgrim Office after getting out of the hospital.

 

[Pingüigrino]

I think this "old pilgrim" you describe would have the right to get a Compostela. He/She would have all of the proper stamps. Just head over to the Pilgrim Office after getting out of the hospital.

Of course, he would have the Compostela if he wanted. But, he didnt have the RIGTH. He didnt WALKED the entire 100 last kilometers. He went by ambulance the last 5km. This is the rule. The hard and sharp true is that he would be a cheater if asked for the compostela. This is the reason wy I dont give importance at that "paper sheet". Its only a pretty souvenir to me. Buen Camino.

 

[DurhamParish]

Of course, he would have the Compostela if he wanted. But, he didnt have the RIGTH. He didnt WALKED the entire 100 last kilometers. He went by ambulance the last 5km. This is the rule. The hard and sharp true is that he would be a cheater if asked for the compostela. This is the reason wy I dont give importance at that "paper sheet". Its only a pretty souvenir to me. Buen Camino.

I disagree. But then we can agree to disagree.

There is often discussion on who is "worthy" of a Compostela and who is not "worthy". For me I have a saying that sums it up. The Camino is not a competition; and the Compostela is not a trophy.

 

[Sheilajg]

Haha, one day somewhere fairly close to Santiago, we walked into a bar and saw the girl from our nightmares for the past couple of nights and just (inwardly) groaned. She was pretty high maintenance and constantly asked her boyfriend to get this or do that for her, making us squirm. And she was challenging to share space with...anyhow, we greeted her cautiously and asked how she was doing as she'd had some difficulties earlier in the day. She let us know that she and her boyfriend were catching a taxi to go further along. We were very happy to hear that as we had already booked into the albuerge and showered etc. Whew! and yes, we felt a bit guilty for being so judgey but, well, we're not perfect either!

 

[Canucks]

I got food poisoning in Leon, and it hit me the following day. About 15km into the day it became really bad and the projectile vomiting started.
I had to take a taxi a few km later for the last 4km but didn't feel much shame. Let's just say that the old saying "through the eye of a needle at 20 paces" was particularly accurate for the next three days but, strangely enough, it tended to hit in the evening so no further taxi shame was needed.
Good weight loss program.

 

[Walkervine]

I'm walking the Via de la Plata and was shocked by how many pilgrims took a taxi from Castilblanco to the start of the natural park. If you are ill or injured, or if there is an urgent time-need, take a bus or taxi. If, though, you just can't be bothered - like my fellow taxigrinos - to walk a full stage, I would bear in mind that pain and suffering is important for physical and mental breakthroughs.

 

[Corned Beef]

I would bear in mind that pain and suffering is important for physical and mental breakthroughs.

That's why we stay in Albergue with the snorers and those that walk about with head torches in the morning.

 

[Tincatinker]

I'm walking the Via de la Plata and was shocked by how many pilgrims took a taxi from Castilblanco to the start of the natural park. If you are ill or injured, or if there is an urgent time-need, take a bus or taxi. If, though, you just can't be bothered - like my fellow taxigrinos - to walk a full stage, I would bear in mind that pain and suffering is important for physical and mental breakthroughs.

Pain and suffering are necessary bollocks. That’s a long stage with no resources, not even a water point. People are entitled to make their own decisions. Just as you have chosen to exercise your outrage in your first post on this forum.

One of the great learnings of Camino is acceptance. Especially acceptance of alternative approaches to Camino than your own

 

[Barbara]

While it's an interesting topic for many, this is a really old thread. I wonder if any of the original posters are still around to comment on whether their opinions have changed since 2016?
As to pain and suffering being necessary, there is enough of that around without going out to look for it. I've never done a penitential pilgrimage, and I'm not planning on doing one in the future. Though I expect I could sew you quite a nice hair shirt if you asked nicely. You would have to wear it under the high tech clothes and not tell us about it, though.

 

[C clearly]

I'm walking the Via de la Plata and was shocked... I would bear in mind that pain and suffering is important for physical and mental breakthroughs.

True - We need to suffer through sanctimonious statements occasionally, as we seek information and community on the forum.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

. I wonder if any of the original posters are still around to comment on whether their opinions have changed since 2016?

Actually if you read this thread you'll find that there are quite a few that are still not only around, but very active.

 

[Walkervine]

Pain and suffering are necessary bollocks. That’s a long stage with no resources, not even a water point. People are entitled to make their own decisions. Just as you have chosen to exercise your outrage in your first post on this forum.

One of the great learnings of Camino is acceptance. Especially acceptance of alternative approaches to Camino than your own

Yeah, yeah

 

[Walkervine]

True - We need to suffer through sanctimonious statements occasionally, as we seek information and community on the forum.

I had heard that this forum is regularly frequented by fragile egos that find solace by bullying anyone that doesn't conform to their worldview. Sorry, but it is my opinion that you should walk the whole way unless you become injured or are ill.

 

[Tincatinker]

I had heard that this forum is regularly frequented by fragile egos that find solace by bullying anyone that doesn't conform to their worldview. Sorry, but it is my opinion that you should walk the whole way unless you become injured or are ill.

Pot calling the kettle black

 

[Kirkie]

I had heard that this forum is regularly frequented by fragile egos that find solace by bullying anyone that doesn't conform to their worldview. Sorry, but it is my opinion that you should walk the whole way unless you become injured or are ill.

Why am I putting my head on the chopping block? Ah, never mind. You are walking a camino. Ignore other people, except the one who has offered to sew you a hairshirt.
Come on, never mind about what you heard, or what you see. If you are on a pilgrimage, keep custody of the eyes. And be sure to offer some helpful reports for others who might be looking for them, following in your footsteps.

 

[Walkervine]

Why am I putting my head on the chopping block? Ah, never mind. You are walking a camino. Ignore other people, except the one who has offered to sew you a hairshirt.
Come on, never mind about what you heard, or what you see. If you are on a pilgrimage, keep custody of the eyes. And be sure to offer some helpful reports for others who might be looking for them, following in your footsteps.

Sure. Don't take the taxi from Castilblanco to the nature park on the third day of walking the VdlP

 

[Pafayac]

As far as I am concerned, I don't believe in redemption through suffering.
But I am not sure this kind of assertion is allowed on this forum.

 

[trecile]

I'm walking the Via de la Plata and was shocked by how many pilgrims took a taxi from Castilblanco to the start of the natural park. If you are ill or injured, or if there is an urgent time-need, take a bus or taxi. If, though, you just can't be bothered - like my fellow taxigrinos - to walk a full stage, I would bear in mind that pain and suffering is important for physical and mental breakthroughs.

Too bad you apparently didn't read the entire (8+ year old) thread before posting. You may have seen this:

The only shame is the use of such a judgemental term.

 

[David Tallan]

I had heard that this forum is regularly frequented by fragile egos that find solace by bullying anyone that doesn't conform to their worldview. Sorry, but it is my opinion that you should walk the whole way unless you become injured or are ill.

That is your opinion and one you are certainly entitled to. In this case, it is an opinion and a judgement. Since you are so intent on judging others, it surprises me that you would consider it "bullying" when others judge you. You have demonstrated, through your opening words here that you consider judging others a worthy activity.

I won't participate in the same. If you want to say that it is best to wall the whole way, I won't disagree with you. If you want to assert that one  should walk the whole way, health permitting. I wont say you are a bad person for doing so. I will, however, ask "on what authority" do you make this assertion about what people ought to do? If you say people are doing it "wrong", what is your source for the "right" way to do it? It is one thing to say something is right or wrong for you. Surely you can see that when it comes to applying your opinions to others, people may be nterested in what backs up those opinions.

It isn't the Church and the folks handing out Compostelas. They dont care how many rides one takes or buses or planes or trains until one is wothin that magic 100 km radius of Santiago de Compostela.

it isn't historical practice. I would bet any amount you wish that when Alfonso II undertook "the first pilgrimage", he didn't walk every step of the way. Centuries later, when Aymeric Picaud wrote the Codex Calixtinus, his descriptions make it very clear that medieval pilgrims were not expected to walk every step of the way and that horses were often used for at least part of the journey. Even now, most of our polgrimages, for all but the most diehard or local of pilgrims, start with motorized transit. I bet you didn't walk from your front door and didn't walk to where you started your Camino.

What could it be?

I guess, if you consider a Camino exclusively an athletic ability, defined only by walking a particular route from a defined starting point to a defined end point, then you could say that anyone doing a Camino differently is not really doing a Camino. That seems an incredibly limited view of what a Camino is, to me, but it is a view you are entitled to hold. I don't think you will find many here (or in any pilgrim community, frankly) who share it, though. Most of us who have walked Caminos have discovered how much more there is to them.

For myself, the walking aspect of my Camino has been more important to me in some of my Caminos, and less important in others. I would say, over time, it is becoming more important to me. Given a choice, and just considering myself, I will now always walk all the way if possible. But I know other people who have gone the other direction with their Camino experience, with walking every step of the way being less important. There are other things they are looking for from their Caminos.

I don't judge them for that. You are welcome to. But if you don't have a demonstrated basis for your judgements, people aren't going to give them much weight.

 

[Walkervine]

Too bad you apparently didn't read the entire (8+ year old) thread before posting. You may have seen this:

 

[Walkervine]

That is your opinion and one you are certainly entitled to. In this case, it is an opinion and a judgement. Since you are so intent on judging others, it surprises me that you would consider it "bullying" when others judge you. You have demonstrated, through your opening words here that you consider judging others a worthy activity.

I won't participate in the same. If you want to say that it is best to wall the whole way, I won't disagree with you. If you want to assert that one  should walk the whole way, health permitting. I wont say you are a bad person for doing so. I will, however, ask "on what authority" do you make this assertion about what people ought to do? If you say people are doing it "wrong", what is your source for the "right" way to do it? It is one thing to say something is right or wrong for you. Surely you can see that when it comes to applying your opinions to others, people may be nterested in what backs up those opinions.

It isn't the Church and the folks handing out Compostelas. They dont care how many rides one takes or buses or planes or trains until one is wothin that magic 100 km radius of Santiago de Compostela.

it isn't historical practice. I would bet any amount you wish that when Alfonso II undertook "the first pilgrimage", he didn't walk every step of the way. Centuries later, when Aymeric Picaud wrote the Codex Calixtinus, his descriptions make it very clear that medieval pilgrims were not expected to walk every step of the way and that horses were often used for at least part of the journey. Even now, most of our polgrimages, for all but the most diehard or local of pilgrims, start with motorized transit. I bet you didn't walk from your front door and didn't walk to where you started your Camino.

What could it be?

I guess, if you consider a Camino exclusively an athletic ability, defined only by walking a particular route from a defined starting point to a defined end point, then you could say that anyone doing a Camino differently is not really doing a Camino. That seems an incredibly limited view of what a Camino is, to me, but it is a view you are entitled to hold. I don't think you will find many here (or in any pilgrim community, frankly) who share it, though. Most of us who have walked Caminos have discovered how much more there is to them.

For myself, the walking aspect of my Camino has been more important to me in some of my Caminos, and less important in others. I would say, over time, it is becoming more important to me. Given a choice, and just considering myself, I will now always walk all the way if possible. But I know other people who have gone the other direction with their Camino experience, with walking every step of the way being less important. There are other things they are looking for from their Caminos.

I don't judge them for that. You are welcome to. But if you don't have a demonstrated basis for your judgements, people aren't going to give them much weight.

Yes, I have walked from my front door before. But not back as well - that would be pointless, IMO
As I wrote, it is my opinion and I thought this was a forum where everyone could express their opinion without the barrage of bully responses that I have received from the mods and "veteran" members.
It is my opinion that a walking camino should be just that - no taxis and no busses.
If it isn't your opinion then that is just that.
It's funny how so sensitive you are about what I think and feel

 

[trecile]

As I wrote, it is my opinion and I thought this was a forum where everyone could express their opinion without the barrage of bully responses that I have received from the mods and "veteran" members.

Please keep the forum rules in mind, in this case Rule #3:

3) No arguments about who is a tourist and who is a “real" pilgrim. The forum is intended for all who are interested in the Camino. Please do not challenge the sincerity, intentions, or authenticity of another person’s Camino.

I don't believe that anyone has challenged your sincerity, intentions, or authenticity.

It's best if you focus on what is right for you, and let others worry about themselves. Unless, of course their behaviour is affecting others around them negatively.

 

[Pafayac]

As I wrote, it is my opinion and I thought this was a forum where everyone could express their opinion without the barrage of bully responses that I have received from the mods and "veteran" members.

Of course, anybody can express its opinion, but the others have the right to not agree.
Each of us has his own idea of what should be the Camino, but these ideas of course differ.
You think that all the way should be walked. I share this opinion, even if I consider that taking a bus in order to cross a huge town is not a true problem.
But we should consider that it is always possible to find a pilgrim who walk a more difficult way than us:
- You walk all the way ? Great ! But others start from there front door !
- You have started from your front door ? Kudos ! But others carry their own tent !
- You are carrying your tent ? Nice ! But some start without a single euro in their pocket !
- and so on and so on...
Thus the wise attitude IMHO is to be happy with our own camino and if some pilgrims behaviours seem to be not very interesting, simply do not consider them.

 

[domigee]

I'm walking the Via de la Plata and was shocked by how many pilgrims took a taxi from Castilblanco to the start of the natural park. If you are ill or injured, or if there is an urgent time-need, take a bus or taxi. If, though, you just can't be bothered - like my fellow taxigrinos - to walk a full stage, I would bear in mind that pain and suffering is important for physical and mental breakthroughs.

Don’t judge people. I took a taxi somewhere on the VdlP because the pilgrim I was walking with was unwell, she was in cancer remission… And I knew I had to help her.

 

[David Tallan]

Yes, I have walked from my front door before. But not back as well - that would be pointless, IMO
As I wrote, it is my opinion and I thought this was a forum where everyone could express their opinion without the barrage of bully responses that I have received from the mods and "veteran" members.
It is my opinion that a walking camino should be just that - no taxis and no busses.
If it isn't your opinion then that is just that.
It's funny how so sensitive you are about what I think and feel

And others have just stated their opinions. You are entitled to your opinion. I already said that and am not changing my mind. But I notice when you share an opinion, it's just that. "If it isn't your opinion then that is just that". But when others share their opinion about your opinion, all of a sudden the rules change. Now it is bullying. If their opinion isn't your opinion, that is just that.

This is a forum where everyone can express their opinion (consistent with the rules). But people can discuss those opinions. They can disagree. They can ask questions.

It's funny how sensitive you are about everyone who disagrees with you, or even just asks questions to understand where you are coming from.

 

[Walkervine]

Please keep the forum rules in mind, in this case Rule #3:



I don't believe that anyone has challenged your sincerity, intentions, or authenticity.

It's best if you focus on what is right for you, and let others worry about themselves. Unless, of course their behaviour is affecting others around them negatively.

I wasn't arguing about who is a real pilgrim.
My argument was that IMO I believe that if you are going to walk a camino then you should walk it - not take a taxi or bus.
I mean, I read through all of the sympathetic posts and wanted to give my two cents.
I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!

 

[Walkervine]

And others have just stated their opinions. You are entitled to your opinion. I already said that and am not changing my mind. But I notice when you share an opinion, it's just that. "If it isn't your opinion then that is just that". But when others share their opinion about your opinion, all of a sudden the rules change. Now it is bullying. If their opinion isn't your opinion, that is just that.

This is a forum where everyone can express their opinion (consistent with the rules). But people can discuss those opinions. They can disagree. They can ask questions.

It's funny how sensitive you are about everyone who disagrees with you, or even just asks questions to understand where you are coming from.

You need to get out more. The mod power has gotten to your head

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Might it not be a good idea for everyone to step back and take a deep breath on this one?

After all it's just a walk across Spain . . . . (dodges down behind barricade)

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I wasn't arguing about who is a real pilgrim.
My argument was that IMO I believe that if you are going to walk a camino then you should walk it - not take a taxi or bus.
I mean, I read through all of the sympathetic posts and wanted to give my two cents.
I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!

Say @Walkervine, when I read your post this morning (#112 above) I did read it as rather judgemental but after reading these subsequent posts I went back and re-read it. Reading with the view that it isn't judging the post absolutely comes across that way. It does seem to lack tact though. Anyway, I changed my opinion.