From Catholic News Service: True Christian pilgrimages are rooted in silence, the Gospel, pope says

[kelleymac]

I found this interesting food for thought.
I am not very good at silence, but I was glad to be given and to read the Gospel of St Luke that I was given in Le Puy-en-Velay after the morning pilgrim mass there.

“Along the way, be attentive to others, especially those who are struggling the most, those who have fallen, those in need,” the pope said."

True Christian pilgrimages are rooted in silence, the Gospel, pope says - Catholic Review

To have a true Christian pilgrimage experience along the Camino de Santiago -- the popular pilgrimage in northern Spain that leads to the tomb of St. James -- pilgrims must cultivate silence, prayer and charity along their route, Pope Francis said.

catholicreview.org

 

[Rebekah Scott]

OMG, the pope has violated the Big Forbidden of Camino Discussion: What is a true pilgrim? The NERVE!!

 

[TravellingMan22]

I found this interesting food for thought. I am not very good at silence, but I was happy to read the Gospel of St Luke that I was given in Le Puy-en-Velay after the morning pilgrim mass.

“Along the way, be attentive to others, especially those who are struggling the most, those who have fallen, those in need,” the pope said."

True Christian pilgrimages are rooted in silence, the Gospel, pope says - Catholic Review

To have a true Christian pilgrimage experience along the Camino de Santiago -- the popular pilgrimage in northern Spain that leads to the tomb of St. James -- pilgrims must cultivate silence, prayer and charity along their route, Pope Francis said.

catholicreview.org

Gosh what nonsense (him not you)!

 

[henrythedog]

‘Shut up and get on with it’ - might have been addressed to me.

 

[SabsP]

Gosh what nonsense (him not you)!

Well it is the core business of the catholic Church? We can or cannot agree with it but those are the rules of the " club " so here we are.
On a personal level you might find it nonsense but we can at least find a common ground and accept that others walk pilgrim paths in different ways then you and I.

 

[VNwalking]

Gosh what nonsense (him not you)!

You might not like it, but it's true.

 

[kelleymac]

OMG, the pope has violated the Big Forbidden of Camino Discussion: What is a true pilgrim? The NERVE!!

Well.... hmmm. The Pope isn't discussing a "true pilgrim" but rather a "true Christian pilgrim".

 

[Vacajoe]

OMG, the pope has violated the Big Forbidden of Camino Discussion: What is a true pilgrim? The NERVE!!

LOVE this comment, especially from you!!!! Thankfully the pilgrimage will outlive whatever fad says the world needs to be partying along it at this stage in its existence.

 

[David]

The responses above sadden me beyond, well beyond, my ability to respond to what they have written ...

Have modern humans gone so far in lack of humility and awareness of other? Is the modern world so lost and ego-centric that people can go on an ancient Catholic pilgrimage and at the same time denigrate the leader of the Catholic church when he speaks about it?

Are they on holiday? Taking a bucket list hike?

I have said for many years, over twelve years, that to go on pilgrimage as a pilgrim one has to travel alone. To go on pilgrimage one has to switch off all electronic devices; no phones, no tablets, no music from earplugs ...

No demanding, only gratitude ... has everyone truly forgotten? It is a Pilgrimage - and yes, the silence spaces are integral to being able to hear that quiet whisper ....

The modern consumer fetishist egoist reality is unreal and false .. there is a deeper reality ... go for weeks of being a pilgrim and all may, just may, become clear ...

Look, the Pope didn't become the leader of the Roman church because he won a tv reality show, or because he had made millions or billions off other people .. he was chosen as Pope as he is a truly good person who has spent his life being a highly intelligent deep thinker and deep theologian .. before you mock what he says be aware that he has spent his life truly seeing this manifestation of reality that we encounter ... if you wish to disagree .. go elsewhere for your holiday hike, but please, don't belittle the pilgrimage, nor Pope Francis.

 

[falcon269]

As a pre-social media pilgrim, I would yearn for the relative silence of the good old days. Pilgrims talked to each other.

 

[Bradypus]

As a pre-social media pilgrim, I would yearn for the relative silence of the good old days. Pilgrims talked to each other.

True. But that wasn't/isn't always a blessing. I have sometimes added a few km to my day to put some distance between myself and an overly-demanding and intrusive specimen.

 

[Tincatinker]

Ah David. Where is it written “Mock not for thou shall be also…”

I’ve no doubt that Francis is a good and honourable man. Some of his recent interventions support that assumption. But the long history of the Papacy from the Borgias to Pius XII will leave some to doubt the institution if not the individual.

Francis’ advice to those who undertake a catholic pilgrimage to a catholic shrine might even convey a clear message to those groups of chanting and singing youths who seem to have riled the good citizens of Galicia in recent years.

The rest of us? We’ll make our pilgrimage to the bones of one who may have stood with the divine in our own quiet way as we always have

 

[Kathor1]

Well.... hmmm. The Pope isn't discussing a "true pilgrim" but rather a "true Christian pilgrim".

Just for info: The website of the Vatican has articles / press releases about this meeting between the Pope and Italian Saint James pilgrims in various languages. The interesting thing, at least for me, is the fact that these are not translations. They are written by native speakers / reporters and taken together they provide a more complete picture of what the Pope said and meant. The diverse headlines alone provide already a better impression of where the focus of pilgrimage lies for the Pope:

• Spanish version: Vivir el Camino de Santiago como auténticos apóstoles de Jesús
• German version: Papst sieht Hype um Jakobsweg skeptisch
• French version: Le Pape encourage les pèlerins à l’apostolat de l'évangélisation
• English version: Pope: A pilgrimage needs silence, the Gospel, and Matthew 25

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Pope Francis: "Are people who walk the Camino de Santiago making a true pilgrimage? Or is it something else?”

Mostly, I think it's something else. I include myself, alas.
Food for thought. I think it is hard to have a contemplative time on the CF. Maybe on the other routes.

 

[dick bird]

Just be nice to people, it's not that hard.

This thread is bordering on a discussion of religion, by the way.

 

[Pilgrim9]

OMG, the pope has violated the Big Forbidden of Camino Discussion: What is a true pilgrim? The NERVE!!

I will defer to the Pope.

 

[dougfitz]

I find the notion of being able to walk in quiet contemplation quite appealing. It was one of the attractions of walking the Gudbrandsdalsleden when I first walked there over a decade ago after walking the much busier CF in 2010. Finding these moments seems easier on the less travelled routes, which makes those very attractive to me. I expect that there will be a time where I come into SDC along one of the busier routes, and I hope that I will still be able to find quiet time when I do.

 

[truenorthpilgrm]

Food for thought. I think it is hard to have a contemplative time on the CF. Maybe on the other routes.

I agree. I'm no monk, but finding windows of quiet and peace, (let alone space) is a struggle on the CF. I will only do the CF in the very late fall/winter, or walk other routes.

 

[Kirkie]

Rather like @Kathor1 , I went looking for a source. Not in Italy, Baltimore, MD. Not the content, but how it is presented, isn’t that crucial?
Reminds me of an exercise in circles I moved in 40 years ago: compare the same item of ‘news’ in a range of newspapers. Which one tells the truth? That would be an impossible conversation to have nowadays! And certainly not on this forum.

 

[Kathor1]

Pope Francis understands pilgrimage as Christian pilgrimage, as already pointed out.

As I said, take the articles in the various languages as a whole to better understand what he talks about. He doesn’t talk about silence to find onself and who you were meant to be or find answers one may not even have asked yet - which is often part of defining a Camino pilgrimage for oneself and, alas, too often for all others. Nor does he criticise this and he does not make a comparison between the Camino Francés and other Caminos. It is pointed out that Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul II were pilgrims to Santiago. That alone ought to make it clear that this is not about backpack carrying over 500 miles. John Paul II walked from Monte do Gozo, this is maximum 5 km, and Benedict did not even walk outside of Santiago if I remember correctly.

One of the articles has this quote: “The pilgrims of old teach us that one returns from Christian pilgrimages as an apostle! I make the pilgrimage and return as an apostle to proclaim Jesus!” You hear similar words at the end of every pilgrim mass in Santiago, something like return home and live the Gospel.

This is not “discussing religion”. It is understanding one definition and one understanding of Christian pilgrimages. There are numerous other definitions and understandings of Camino pilgrimages.

One of the three defining elements of his understanding of pilgrimage is reading the Evangelium every day.

 

[SabsP]

Just be nice to people, it's not that hard.

This thread is bordering on a discussion of religion, by the way.

We can be nice to people and objective and informative at the same time.
Thank you to those who do this here. It is much appreciated to read some original sources.

 

[Pafayac]

According to me, the key point is the silence.
That does not mean we should no pronounce a word, like "Do you see a yellow arrow, I did not for hours" or "Do you think we will find pimientos de Padrón in next bar ?", which are essential sentences, but just that silence can not bore those who like music, although music can bore those who like silence.
There are many hiking trails for those who like listening music while walking, many pilgrimages for those who like singing, but the silence of the Camino should be preserved.

 

[Kathor1]

We can be nice to peoole and objective and informative at the same time. Thank you to those who do this here.

Amen to that. Let's hope so. As one could see again very recently, it takes only one or two participants to run a thread into the ground and have it closed.

 

[Marbe2]

The responses above sadden me beyond, well beyond, my ability to respond to what they have written...

Have modern humans gone so far in lack of humility and awareness of others? Is the modern world so lost and ego-centric that people can go on an ancient Catholic pilgrimage and at the same time denigrate the leader of the Catholic church when he speaks about it?

Are they on holiday? Taking a bucket list hike?

I have said for many years, over twelve years, that to go on pilgrimage as a pilgrim one has to travel alone. To go on pilgrimage one has to switch off all electronic devices; no phones, no tablets, no music from earplugs...

No demanding, only gratitude... has everyone truly forgotten? It is a Pilgrimage - and yes, the silence spaces are integral to being able to hear that quiet whisper....

The modern consumer fetishist egoist reality is unreal and false.. there is a deeper reality... go for weeks of being a pilgrim and all may, just may, become clear...

Look, the Pope didn't become the leader of the Roman church because he won a reality tv show, or because he had made millions or billions off other people .. he was chosen as Pope as he is a truly good person who has spent his life being a highly intelligent deep thinker and profound theologian .. before you mock what he says be aware that he has spent his life truly seeing this manifestation of reality that we encounter ... if you wish to disagree .. go elsewhere for your holiday hike, but please, don't belittle the pilgrimage, nor Pope Francis.

The Camino is an ancient pilgrimage route. But not everyone who walks is Catholic or even uses bibles in their religion. Some are atheists. Remember that, Pope Francis was specifically, addressing Italian Catholics! What if The Pope had been addressing an ecumenical group?


For his flock, however, Francis emphasized, two areas I think are applicable to most of us. Cultivating silence. This does not mean that everyone has to make a path alone! It means being able to carve out substantial periods of quiet when one can have a listening heart. That can be pilgrims walking together in silence, or apart for periods of time. Rhythmically and comfortably walking each step quietly can become the prayer.

There is also emphasis in this article on charity . How can we show charity on the Camino: by feeding a hungry pilgrim, helping out someone who may be sleeping outside because they are short on funds. By giving up our hard won, lower bunk for a later arrival who needs it more than you. Being selfless….


Sometimes what one doesn't say is worth noting!
Pope Francis, in this article does not emphasize that one must suffer and experience bodily pain for it to be a pilgrimage. But if one wants to sacrifice, let it be for the sake of someone else. Give up that lower bunk that another pilgrim may need more. Let someone else get take that last pastry. Pause to help an injured pilgrim, even when it costs you time and you lose that bunk at your favorite hostel. Listen to an angry or disruptive pilgrim whom you don't want to be with for a while and find out why they are so out of sorts….

 

[Pafayac]

by feeding a hungry pilgrim

I look forward to meeting you on the Camino !

 

[WalkingPlaylist]

The logic argument seems to work in the Pope's favor and what he says is true. The route IS a Catholic Pilgrimage...period. Those that are not Catholic and choose to walk it should be respectful. They don't have to partake in the pilgrim masses, stop and pray at churches, or even believe in God, but they do and should respect the path and those who walk it in faith.

As a Catholic, I take to heart his words and advice for my pilgrimages and have done them in the spirit of silence so they are meaningful and purposeful. I shepherded my elderly father on each, which I believe a child of any time period would have done for a parent.

 

[kelleymac]

Just for info: The website of the Vatican has articles / press releases about this meeting between the Pope and Italian Saint James pilgrims in various languages. The interesting thing, at least for me, is the fact that these are not translations. They are written by native speakers / reporters and taken together they provide a more complete picture of what the Pope said and meant. The diverse headlines alone provide already a better impression of where the focus of pilgrimage lies for the Pope:

• Spanish version: Vivir el Camino de Santiago como auténticos apóstoles de Jesús
• German version: Papst sieht Hype um Jakobsweg skeptisch
• French version: Le Pape encourage les pèlerins à l’apostolat de l'évangélisation
• English version: Pope: A pilgrimage needs silence, the Gospel, and Matthew 25

The difference between the German title and the others is remarkable.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

Just be nice to people, it's not that hard.

This thread is bordering on a discussion of religion, by the way.

Yes, just be nice to people… and I appreciate you keeping an eye on the thread content, but as long as we are discussing not religion per se, but rather the matter of a code for travellers and those who host them, I hope we can persist a little on the matter.

Upthread,@David observed that it is far too common that we encounter those walking a camino who easily and thoughtlessly denigrate the institution that laid its foundations, the institution that remains a motivational reminder of the faith and dogma to “go forward glorifying the Lord with your lives” every day (meaning, for example, that the people who live along camino routes and provide the unusual kindnesses that we have found so remarkable — no, not the cheap beds and pilgrim meals, but rather the growing of a garden plot outside one’s gate that says ‘por los peregrinos’, or pressing into one’s palm the fruit off your tree, or driving out on the farm trails with bottles of water and snacks and making sure that the walkers on those very hot or very wet days have some sustenance on that long stage…)

Those things happen because of a belief system that structures them to happen.

It saddens me to encounter people who are happy to take the fruit and to give nothing back except scorn…

If the Pope is calling upon people to consider what on earth makes them greet kindness with scorn, what makes them think that a pilgrimage is nothing more than a mobile social group… that is not “religion” (religion is merely the framework in which the Pope does his work), but we can listen without being dismissive, and without becoming Catholic.

Too early in the morning, and not far enough into my first coffee for any greater lucidity than this, and it ain’t much.

But the discussion of ethics, coming from whatever source, is not a discussion of religion. What do we owe to the camino? To ourselves? To those who do the work every day…? The Pope has one take on it, and that take comes, as @SabsP notes, from the structural framework of the institution he leads, we can discuss the *content* of that take quite legitimately without it being a discussion about religion.

But when one roars in with glib prejudices and insults, that is where I think we run into the very reason for the prohibition on ‘discussing religion’.

Maybe we need a different rule? Something like, “regardless of the topic, don’t be rude — or crude”…

Not a German speaker myself but does the title say that the Pope is skeptical that the Camino de Santiago is a pilgrimage? If so, I mean… he’s got a point. People who want it both ways (something like: “I’m not a pilgrim, and pilgrims are superstitious fools! I want the compostelaaaaaaaa!!!!!”) baffle me.

 

[Tandem Graham]

I am not a Catholic, though I have probably been to more Catholic masses in French, Spanish and Italian during my various pilgrimage adventures of the last few years than services in my "home church" of English Methodism.
However I suggest that what the Pope has to say on pilgrimage is inspiring, instructive or at least thought provoking to most people who join pilgrim routes, people of all faiths and of none. You don't have to agree with every nuance to appreciate his contribution to the (often divisive) topic of the nature of pilgrimage.

 

[kelleymac]

Rather like @Kathor1 , I went looking for a source. Not in Italy, Baltimore, MD. Not the content, but how it is presented, isn’t that crucial?
Reminds me of an exercise in circles I moved in 40 years ago: compare the same item of ‘news’ in a range of newspapers. Which one tells the truth? That would be an impossible conversation to have nowadays! And certainly not on this forum.

I read the German version, muddled through the french, and then read the english version-- the differences were interesting.

I want to write more but I'm typing with my left hand only as I broke my rt. arm two weeks ago. Also, sorry about mistakes in capitalization above.

p.s. I suppose the fractured ulna is a form of enforced silence for me. ha.

 

[Dani7]

Respect and tolerance for different beliefs and motivations, or differing opinions will inherently remove the « rude and crude ». Thank you for you thoughtful post @Perambulating Griffin.

 

[John Sikora]

I prefer to think not as much about silence as saying only what needs to be said at that moment and not adding to the general cacaphony of trivia that tries to continually take our attention away from what is right in front of our noses.

 

[dfox]

Pope Francis said: the true Christian pilgrimage experience requires silence, which allows one “to listen with the heart and to find in that way, while walking and through tiredness, the responses which the heart seeks.”

I believe he referred to the spirituality aspect of pilgrimage, rather than the social aspect of it.

 

[dfox]

Here is a link to the write up in Vatican News on the topic.

Pope: A pilgrimage needs silence, the Gospel, and Matthew 25 - Vatican News

Speaking to pilgrims from the Camino de Santiago in Spain, the Pope encourages the group to reflect on what makes a pilgrimage versus a simple ...

www.vaticannews.va

 

[lt56ny]

The responses above sadden me beyond, well beyond, my ability to respond to what they have written ...

Have modern humans gone so far in lack of humility and awareness of other? Is the modern world so lost and ego-centric that people can go on an ancient Catholic pilgrimage and at the same time denigrate the leader of the Catholic church when he speaks about it?

Are they on holiday? Taking a bucket list hike?

I have said for many years, over twelve years, that to go on pilgrimage as a pilgrim one has to travel alone. To go on pilgrimage one has to switch off all electronic devices; no phones, no tablets, no music from earplugs ...

No demanding, only gratitude ... has everyone truly forgotten? It is a Pilgrimage - and yes, the silence spaces are integral to being able to hear that quiet whisper ....

The modern consumer fetishist egoist reality is unreal and false .. there is a deeper reality ... go for weeks of being a pilgrim and all may, just may, become clear ...

Look, the Pope didn't become the leader of the Roman church because he won a tv reality show, or because he had made millions or billions off other people .. he was chosen as Pope as he is a truly good person who has spent his life being a highly intelligent deep thinker and deep theologian .. before you mock what he says be aware that he has spent his life truly seeing this manifestation of reality that we encounter ... if you wish to disagree .. go elsewhere for your holiday hike, but please, don't belittle the pilgrimage, nor Pope Francis.

Pope Francis: "Are people who walk the Camino de Santiago making a true pilgrimage? Or is it something else?”

Mostly, I think it's something else. I include myself, alas.
Food for thought. I think it is hard to have a contemplative time on the CF. Maybe on the other routes.

It is surprising to me that those who I have disagreed with or even had disagreements with in the past are the ones I agree with the most. It never surprises me how almost fiercely people hold on to their ideas about the Camino and often are the ones who profess the most "tolerance and non-judgemental" are the ones who are often the most dismissive, intolerant and condescending when their notions are challenging.
I am not Catholic. I do not like the often controlling nature of the powers that be in organized religion. There are incredible people doing incredible things in the name of service to G-d.
I have my own opinion of what pilgrimage is FOR me. Simplicity, peaceful, painful, sacrifice, mindlessness and self forgiveness to reach clarity, not of what you wanted but what you needed.
I know people say they have these profound and wonderful experiences while mostly walking the CF and often just a few days of it. How this occurs is not my business.
But for me the Camino Frances has deteriorated into sideshow of pilgrimage with thousands walking, often monotonous and meaningless chatter, fun and a whole host of other things. Of course not always and not all people. It is just MY FEELING and how it affects my walk.
I am no saint or angel. In fact my life has been far more adversarial than harmonious.
But walking in SILENCE, walking for the joy of the sounds around me, and the earth below, walking in heavy rain, wind, snow, and ice and being thankful I have the opportunity to be home on the camino is a wonderful gift. Not thinking about where to sleep, what the best restaurant to eat at, is there baggage transportation, is my "family" walking today even though I have blister the size of a pineapple, for me who needs it.
I think you do need silence and a chance to be contemplative and achieving discovery that you truly are your own best friend can be found on less traveled routes. Next year for me it is the Mozarabe, part of the VDLP and the Invierno at the end of the year sounds like heaven. Just like being on the Aragones and especially the Madrid where I only shared two albergue nights with others.
Camino is no holiday, no bucket, no music in my ears as I walk, it is a can of sardines and bread and a snickers bar and water for lunch. who knows what dinner will bring, maybe the same meal.
Like I said it should be hard, it should humble us.
I am no saint. I am no Catholic, I am no pilgrim in the eyes of the Pope or anyone else. I walk in the only way I know. Away from the hordes, away from the judgements I have heard and felt, away from the pilgrim families who are often the furthest thing from inclusive that I have observed.
Peace, solitude, respect
Oh yea for those of you who are saying I am making a judgement,well of course I am it doesn't tale a rocket scientist to figure that out. It is my opinion only and in situations like this are most opinions based on judgements.

 

[David]

Some marvellous responses in this thread .. but I think there is a common error re 'silence' ... spiritual silence is internal therefore one can be surrounded by all sorts of sounds without it having any adverse effect.

I have friends who do 'mindfulness' regularly (I don't think they actually practise mindfulness, more of a weekly hobby with friends to me) - but they sit in a garden or drive miles to a car park where they can walk into a quiet field and so on - going for that "silence" ... this is so completely in error.

Try this. Go to somewhere busy, a railway station at rush hour or a shopping mall at a weekend .. find a seat and sit .. allow eyes to naturally almost close and sit upright but relaxed ... allow the sounds to wash over you, through you .. after a while it has the same effect as sitting by the sea shore, the constant waves ... you become silent, calm, relaxed but alert, the sounds are part of you - no distinction between you and the sounds (the whole 'all is one' thing) ... children, dogs, people laughing or arguing ... it ebbs and flows and you are centred within it - that is mindfulness, that is the spiritual silence ... and once this is learnt one can be (and will be) able to enter that at any time - so it doesn't matter how busy the Camino is .. silence is not an external thing in this context ... go on, give yourself an hour and go practise that - you just may be amazed!

 

[Kirkie]

I read the German version, muddled through the french, and then read the english version-- the differences were interesting.

I want to write more but I'm typing with my left hand only as I broke my rt. arm two weeks ago. Also, sorry about mistakes in capitalization above.

p.s. I suppose the fractured ulna is a form of enforced silence for me. ha.

Can you speak to your device? I am trying that out, to help a friend who has macular degeneration. It will take a while, because things move more slowly as older persons adjust to a different stage of life, but it might be of use to you. Just a thought.

 

[chinacat]

@kelleymac

Hope your ulna soon heals.

Happy Christmas!

 

[RJM]

I think it's no secret and quite obvious that walking the Camino has become a bit of a fad for so many that do it, and I'll gladly take the barbs of judging others for saying that. I mean I've seen the pilgrims doing TikTok dancing videos while walking the Frances, I've seen the drone's buzzing overhead, much to the annoyance of locals and other pilgrims. The multitude of really bad youtube videos done by middle agers spouting cheap philosophy while walking to find themselves.
The Camino is no different than anything else similar such as the AT and PCT in the US. They get diluted with popularity and throngs of people flocking to them. Like a restaurant with great reviews that gets packed every night and people wait in line for hours to get in not realizing that when it becomes that busy, that crowded in a restaurant the food actually devolves in quality simply because the restaurant staff are swamped.

 

[bullingtonce]

Well.... hmmm. The Pope isn't discussing a "true pilgrim" but rather a "true Christian pilgrim".

Excellent point.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Just for the record: I deeply love and respect Pope Francis.

Yeah, there's a lot of noise and distraction on the Caminos in high season, especially the Frances.
But underneath all the plastic souvenirs and billboards and "must-sees" is a pilgrim path that continues to call to particular people. And particular people continue to respond.
A pilgrim walks in silence, even when the Pilgrim Family is analyzing their childhoods, even when the churches are locked, even when the g---m bagpiper is playing "Scotland the Brave" for the fifth time beneath his window at 3 a.m. He carries his silence with him. And his eyes are open to the needs around him, and he reaches out to people in need... not even just fellow pilgs! The Camino was formed by people like him, and it rises up to meet him, no matter what everyone else is doing on the path all around him.
...and when the Camino is no longer everyone's "bucket list" item, and the cute hostels and baggage porters all shut down, there will still be a few pilgrims out there, walking the Camino de Santiago.

 

[Gthiker]

A little lighter story. My wife and I walked the CF in 2017 as a pilgrimage. We are Catholic and went to every possible pilgrim Mass. For me two of the highlights of the trip were being asked to read at the service in Rabanal and at the English weekday morning Mass at the Cathedral in Santiago. We started each morning with a prayer before starting to walk.
But I am someone who tends to fill periods of quiet with idle chatter. So a couple of weeks in , my wife stated categorically, " No talking during our first hour on the trail in the morning!" It was tough but did allow for some quiet contemplation.

 

[WalkingPlaylist]

A little lighter story. My wife and I walked the CF in 2017 as a pilgrimage. We are Catholic and went to every possible pilgrim Mass. For me two of the highlights of the trip were being asked to read at the service in Rabanal and at the English weekday morning Mass at the Cathedral in Santiago. We started each morning with a prayer before starting to walk.
But I am someone who tends to fill periods of quiet with idle chatter. So a couple of weeks in , my wife stated categorically, " No talking during our first hour on the trail in the morning!" It was tough but did allow for some quiet contemplation.

My Dad and I walked the same CF route in 2017 and we had to have that rule as well. He wanted to chat in the am and I needed some time to ease into the day. He later filled that time with the rosary so it was a win-win!

 

[Madamjoy]

Some marvellous responses in this thread .. but I think there is a common error re 'silence' ... spiritual silence is internal therefore one can be surrounded by all sorts of sounds without it having any adverse effect.

I have friends who do 'mindfulness' regularly (I don't think they actually practise mindfulness, more of a weekly hobby with friends to me) - but they sit in a garden or drive miles to a car park where they can walk into a quiet field and so on - going for that "silence" ... this is so completely in error.

Try this. Go to somewhere busy, a railway station at rush hour or a shopping mall at a weekend .. find a seat and sit .. allow eyes to naturally almost close and sit upright but relaxed ... allow the sounds to wash over you, through you .. after a while it has the same effect as sitting by the sea shore, the constant waves ... you become silent, calm, relaxed but alert, the sounds are part of you - no distinction between you and the sounds (the whole 'all is one' thing) ... children, dogs, people laughing or arguing ... it ebbs and flows and you are centred within it - that is mindfulness, that is the spiritual silence ... and once this is learnt one can be (and will be) able to enter that at any time - so it doesn't matter how busy the Camino is .. silence is not an external thing in this context ... go on, give yourself an hour and go practise that - you just may be amazed!

I disagree that those who ‘do’ mindfulness ‘as a hobby’ sitting in a garden or a field are ‘SO completely in error’. And I find some comments about noisy chanting pilgrims who denigrate the spirit of the Camino to be a bit harsh.
We all start(ed) somewhere.
You obviously have cultivated the skill to find silence in the rush hour cacophony and I assume on crowded sections of the CF.

But your experience doesn’t make everyone else wrong. Many people start mindfulness practice by joining weekly meditation groups and then going on to become daily practioners. Similarly a noisy singing Camino ‘tourist’ can have their eyes and heart opened. At the very least I allow openness for this to happen.

It is a well established tradition in Buddhist lineages for practitioners to go to isolated areas or monasteries to be in silence for long periods (months) and then come back into the community to serve. There is a similar practice of silence and solitude among some Catholic communities (poor Clare, Trappists, Benedictines) In a way, it’s like being on the Camino… long periods away from my daily routine allow me time for contemplation and hopefully some improvement in my ways.
Buddhism teaches us to cultivate ‘beginners mind’. The idea of letting go of preconceived ideas about what is right and being open to other perspectives.

So be open to those ‘hobbyists’ who want to sit in mindfulness in a field or a garden. They might become you one day.

There is a magnet on my fridge: ‘Peace does not mean to be in a place where there is no noise, trouble or hard work. It means to be in the midst of these things and still be calm in your heart’. We all find different ways of getting there. It is hard work and takes constant practice.

 

[Kathor1]

• Spanish version: Vivir el Camino de Santiago como auténticos apóstoles de Jesús
• German version: Papst sieht Hype um Jakobsweg skeptisch
• French version: Le Pape encourage les pèlerins à l’apostolat de l'évangélisation
• English version: Pope: A pilgrimage needs silence, the Gospel, and Matthew 25

The Italian version Il Papa ai pellegrini di Santiago: lungo la strada attenti a chi è nel bisogno has something that the other language versions don’t have: a link to the actual speech that Pope Francis gave during this audience. Present were the Archbishop of Santiago and representatives of an Italian charity - I think that’s what the Opera Don Guanella is. Does anyone know them or have been in contact with them in Santiago or Finisterre?

Below is the first part. I think reading the whole address helps to see the background and context of this speech. I don’t think that he says much about the Camino - only that numbers have increased and that’s a positive thing. The address is about pilgrimage as it has been understood during the last 100-150 years - an expression of Christian faith. Not the medieval pilgrimage and not the contemporary pilgrimage of long distance walking on Caminos to Santiago either. This in only my personal impression though …

ADDRESS OF THE HOLY FATHER FRANCIS​

TO ITALIAN PILGRIMS OF THE CAMINO DE SANTIAGO,​

CARED FOR BY THE OPERA DON GUANELLA​

I welcome Archbishop Francisco Prieto Fernández of Santiago de Compostela. I greet the Superior General of the Guanellian Fathers and the members of the Guanellian family – so many of them – who for nearly fifteen years have worked in that Church of Galizia, both in Santiago and Finisterre, to provide spiritual welcome for pilgrims. And you pilgrims are something of a living proof of their apostolic commitment. I also greet the Confraternity of Saint James of Perugia, present here with the spiritual assistant, Archbishop Paolo Giulietti of Lucca; they too are engaged in this service of evangelization.​

It is interesting to see how the number of pilgrims to Santiago has grown over the last thirty years. And among these there are also my predecessors Saint John Paul II and Benedict XVI, who wished to visit the Shrine, especially because of its great prominence in the Christian history of Europe.​

This numerical growth is a very positive fact, and at the same time it poses a serious question: are the people who complete the Way of Saint James carrying out a true pilgrimage? This is the question we must answer. Or is it something else? Obviously, there are different experiences, but the question makes us reflect.​

​

We can recognize the Christian pilgrimage to the Tombs of the Apostles from three signs […]​

​

For the whole address in IT or EN: https://www.vatican.va/content/fran...r/documents/20241219-pellegrini-santiago.html

 

[happymarkos]

I found this interesting food for thought.
I am not very good at silence, but I was glad to be given and to read the Gospel of St Luke that I was given in Le Puy-en-Velay after the morning pilgrim mass there.

“Along the way, be attentive to others, especially those who are struggling the most, those who have fallen, those in need,” the pope said."

True Christian pilgrimages are rooted in silence, the Gospel, pope says - Catholic Review

To have a true Christian pilgrimage experience along the Camino de Santiago -- the popular pilgrimage in northern Spain that leads to the tomb of St. James -- pilgrims must cultivate silence, prayer and charity along their route, Pope Francis said.

catholicreview.org

My First CF from St Jon was solo. Helped and talked to others but had a lot of time for introspection. Brierly talks about the spiritual path and the physical one. He even spent time discussing the spiritual one.
I found the silence when on my own illuminating as became more conscious of my inner dialogue.
I know many see it as a physical exercise only, however in spite of it having no religious relevance to them personally I can’t help believing it touches their spirit. So many feel differently afterwards
To each his or her own.

 

[Kathor1]

representatives of an Italian charity - I think that’s what the Opera Don Guanella

Not a charity as such but doing charitable work: they are a Catholic clerical religious congregation of Pontifical Right for men. Members of this clerical congregation are popularly known as 'Guanelliani' (or Guanellians, in English) (Source: Wikipedia)

I’ve never heard of this clerical religious congregation but that is the background of this papal audience. The Opera Guanelli includes a lay movement - they “have the poor at heart and wish to make the culture of solidarity and love grow in the world.”

The connection to Spain and Santiago is here:

The Guanellian Fathers, present in the Diocese of Santiago de Compostela for fourteen years with two pastoral communities, one in Arca de O Pino and the other in Fisterra, take care of the parishes and, in particular, dedicate themselves to the evangelization of pilgrims on the Way of Santiago de Compostela. Concretely, in the Fisterra area they are responsible for the parishes of Fisterra, Pereiriña, Sardiñeiro, San Vicente de Duio, San Martín de Duio and, temporarily, Muxía.​

​

https://en.operadonguanella.it/news/1904-inaugurazione-della-casa-canonica-nella-parrocchia-di-fisterra

 

[SabsP]

Not a charity as such but doing charitable work: they are a Catholic clerical religious congregation of Pontifical Right for men. Members of this clerical congregation are popularly known as 'Guanelliani' (or Guanellians, in English) (Source: Wikipedia)

I’ve never heard of this clerical religious congregation but that is the background of this papal audience. The Opera Guanelli includes a lay movement - they “have the poor at heart and wish to make the culture of solidarity and love grow in the world.” The connection to Spain and Santiago is here:

The Guanellian Fathers, present in the Diocese of Santiago de Compostela for fourteen years with two pastoral communities, one in Arca de O Pino and the other in Fisterra, take care of the parishes and, in particular, dedicate themselves to the evangelization of pilgrims on the Way of Santiago de Compostela. Concretely, in the Fisterra area they are responsible for the parishes of Fisterra, Pereiriña, Sardiñeiro, San Vicente de Duio, San Martín de Duio and, temporarily, Muxía.​

​

https://en.operadonguanella.it/news/1904-inaugurazione-della-casa-canonica-nella-parrocchia-di-fisterra

I met some of the volunteers on my recent Camino.

One time in the Capilla de San Pedro Martir and the other time at the Iglesia San Martiño de Duio , just out of Finisterre on the way to Muxia.

Capilla de San Pedro Mártir en Cee (A Coruña) | 57 comentarios | Horarios | iglesiaslocales.com

iglesiaslocales.com

Churches of Fisterra

Information about the various churches of the City Council of Finisterre.<br>

concellofisterra.gal

 

[Kathor1]

I have said for many years, over twelve years, that to go on pilgrimage as a pilgrim one has to travel alone. To go on pilgrimage one has to switch off all electronic devices; no phones, no tablets, no music from earplugs

You may well have said so for many years but just to be clear: this is not in the address that Pope Francis gave in this audience of 19 December and what the quoted article refers to.

There is nothing that one can detect in the text of his address that describes how “one has to go on pilgrimage” which I guess is meant here as a synonym for how “one has to go on Camino”. The idea of modern day Christian pilgrimage is much wider than walking long-distance. It encompasses travelling to the pilgrimage destination by bus, by train, by plane and with little walking, often within a pre-established group, and all those pilgrims are equal in the context of Christian pilgrimage, no matter how they arrive at the destination. The Pope says nothing in this audience about "how one has to go on Camino".

One can take the Pope’s address as inspiration for personal reflection or to ad-lib about the usefulness of silence - people have gone on retreats and learnt to use methods of meditation long before the current Camino phenomenon - but one should pay attention to his actual words to avoid the risk of accidentally putting words into the Pope’s mouth, literally speaking, that he neither said nor meant.

 

[Marbe2]

Just for the record: I deeply love and respect Pope Francis.

Yeah, there's a lot of noise and distraction on the Caminos in high season, especially the Frances.
But underneath all the plastic souvenirs and billboards and "must-sees" is a pilgrim path that continues to call to particular people. And particular people continue to respond.

While some may perceive from their perspective that walking from Sarria to SdC is too easy, noisy, untenable and distracting, many walkers have said they felt called to do the Camino, but only had a week and started in Sarria. I have been fortunate to meet some while walking who were so grateful, emotionally moved by the beauty of nature in Galicia, the generosity and welcoming of the Spanish people, attending mass and were looking forward to the going to the Cathedral in SdC.

A pilgrim walks in silence, even when the Pilgrim Family is analyzing their childhoods, even when the churches are locked, even when the g---m bagpiper is playing "Scotland the Brave" for the fifth time beneath his window at 3 am He carries his silence with him. And his eyes are open to the needs around him, and he reaches out to people in need... not even just fellow pilgs! The Camino was formed by people like him, and it rises up to meet him, no matter what everyone else is doing on the path all around him.

It is possible to maintain an inner silence while still reaching out to others,
breaking bread communally, listening to the hearts of others along the way, by discerning what is the selfless option. When silence becomes more important than charity, it is time to reevaluate. Balance! Silence for only me, as an ascetic practice, can be selfish. But silence can also make space for one to better listen and discern and serve.

 

[Kathor1]

Not a German speaker myself but does the title say that the Pope is skeptical that the Camino de Santiago is a pilgrimage?

Not at all. As one can see from the background information and context (there is a link to the Pope’s actual short speech), he says very little about the Camino de Santiago as such - just that the numbers walking have significantly increased during the last 30 years and that this is a positive development. The author/editor of the German language article on the Vatican’s website about this audience has used the word “hype” but the Pope did not use it. Since this is a religion-oriented article, “hype” may mean that some take the Camino de Santiago numbers as a sign of a wide spread re-emergence of more Christian religiosity or a wide spread renewal. And that‘s perhaps where the Pope’s skepticism lies. Rightly so, I would say.

The author also notes that of the three defining factors (silence, reading the Evangelium every day and living it, and good works), the majority of Camino pilgrims could probably agree to the first point - leaving the day to day routine behind for a while and find inner peace and restfulness on the Camino. However, the majority do not particularly relate to the second point, and the third point is for many not especially seen as a “Matthew 25 protocol” but as part of one’s own general attitude, independent of a particular faith or not exclusive to Christian beliefs (good works, helping those in need is part of other world religions, too, or a moral-ethical principle with no faith connections).

(I’m writing in a bit of a hurry, I hope the meaning is clear).

 

[Karen Landow]

The responses above sadden me beyond, well beyond, my ability to respond to what they have written ...

Have modern humans gone so far in lack of humility and awareness of other? Is the modern world so lost and ego-centric that people can go on an ancient Catholic pilgrimage and at the same time denigrate the leader of the Catholic church when he speaks about it?

Are they on holiday? Taking a bucket list hike?

I have said for many years, over twelve years, that to go on pilgrimage as a pilgrim one has to travel alone. To go on pilgrimage one has to switch off all electronic devices; no phones, no tablets, no music from earplugs ...

No demanding, only gratitude ... has everyone truly forgotten? It is a Pilgrimage - and yes, the silence spaces are integral to being able to hear that quiet whisper ....

The modern consumer fetishist egoist reality is unreal and false .. there is a deeper reality ... go for weeks of being a pilgrim and all may, just may, become clear ...

Look, the Pope didn't become the leader of the Roman church because he won a tv reality show, or because he had made millions or billions off other people .. he was chosen as Pope as he is a truly good person who has spent his life being a highly intelligent deep thinker and deep theologian .. before you mock what he says be aware that he has spent his life truly seeing this manifestation of reality that we encounter ... if you wish to disagree .. go elsewhere for your holiday hike, but please, don't belittle the pilgrimage, nor Pope Francis.

I totally agree

 

[kelleymac]

Not at all. As one can see from the background information and context (there is a link to the Pope’s actual short speech), he says very little about the Camino de Santiago as such - just that the numbers walking have significantly increased during the last 30 years and that this is a positive development. The author/editor of the German language article on the Vatican’s website about this audience has used the word “hype” but the Pope did not use it. Since this is a religion-oriented article, “hype” may mean that some take the Camino de Santiago numbers as a sign of a wide spread re-emergence of more Christian religiosity or a wide spread renewal. And that‘s perhaps where the Pope’s skepticism lies. Rightly so, I would say.

The author also notes that of the three defining factors (silence, reading the Evangelium every day and living it, and good works), the majority of Camino pilgrims could probably agree to the first point - leaving the day to day routine behind for a while and find inner peace and restfulness on the Camino. However, the majority do not particularly relate to the second point, and the third point is for many not especially seen as a “Matthew 25 protocol” but as part of one’s own general attitude, independent of a particular faith or not exclusive to Christian beliefs (good works, helping those in need is part of other world religions, too, or a moral-ethical principle with no faith connections).

(I’m writing in a bit of a hurry, I hope the meaning is clear).

I found it interesting that the German author used the words "hyp" and "skeptisch", as none of the other articles did. I cannot remember seeing any articles in Germany on faith without a negative cast. But perhaps I don't read enough! And... hmmm... rethinking this-- Perhaps skeptisch is a positive word for Germans.

Whilst on the Camino Frances some years ago, I met a young woman who was reading a Buddhist text. We fell to talking and in a good conversation I discovered that she had never read a gospel, and did not know anything about the Christian faith. I was nothing but supportive of her pilgrimage.
Later, while I was walking, I wondered at her assumption that Christianity was dated and unenlightened. It never occurred to this young perigrina that reading the story of Jesus' life was either a worthwhile endeavor or a source of enlightment. I found that incredibly sad. So I am glad to read the Pope's thoughts.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

Not at all. As one can see from the background information and context (there is a link to the Pope’s actual short speech), he says very little about the Camino de Santiago as such - just that the numbers walking have significantly increased during the last 30 years and that this is a positive development. The author/editor of the German language article on the Vatican’s website about this audience has used the word “hype” but the Pope did not use it. Since this is a religion-oriented article, “hype” may mean that some take the Camino de Santiago numbers as a sign of a wide spread re-emergence of more Christian religiosity or a wide spread renewal. And that‘s perhaps where the Pope’s skepticism lies. Rightly so, I would say.

The author also notes that of the three defining factors (silence, reading the Evangelium every day and living it, and good works), the majority of Camino pilgrims could probably agree to the first point - leaving the day to day routine behind for a while and find inner peace and restfulness on the Camino. However, the majority do not particularly relate to the second point, and the third point is for many not especially seen as a “Matthew 25 protocol” but as part of one’s own general attitude, independent of a particular faith or not exclusive to Christian beliefs (good works, helping those in need is part of other world religions, too, or a moral-ethical principle with no faith connections).

(I’m writing in a bit of a hurry, I hope the meaning is clear).

Yes, thank you and in the interim I was able to go to read the French and the English...
I thought of putting the German title into a translator but I think it probably would not help me... anyway, I've had the larger picture through other means.

 

[kelleymac]

@kelleymac

Hope your ulna soon heals.

Happy Christmas!

Thank you! Happy Christmas!

 

[Marbe2]

The Italian version Il Papa ai pellegrini di Santiago: lungo la strada attenti a chi è nel bisogno has something that the other language versions don’t have: a link to the actual speech that Pope Francis gave during this audience. Present were the Archbishop of Santiago and representatives of an Italian charity - I think that’s what the Opera Don Guanella is. Does anyone know them or have been in contact with them in Santiago or Finisterre?

Below is the first part. I think reading the whole address helps to see the background and context of this speech. I don’t think that he says much about the Camino - only that numbers have increased and that’s a positive thing. The address is about pilgrimage as it has been understood during the last 100-150 years - an expression of Christian faith. Not the medieval pilgrimage and not the contemporary pilgrimage of long distance walking on Caminos to Santiago either. This in only my personal impression though …

ADDRESS OF THE HOLY FATHER FRANCIS​

TO ITALIAN PILGRIMS OF THE CAMINO DE SANTIAGO,​

CARED FOR BY THE OPERA DON GUANELLA​

I welcome Archbishop Francisco Prieto Fernández of Santiago de Compostela. I greet the Superior General of the Guanellian Fathers and the members of the Guanellian family – so many of them – who for nearly fifteen years have worked in that Church of Galizia, both in Santiago and Finisterre, to provide spiritual welcome for pilgrims. And you pilgrims are something of a living proof of their apostolic commitment. I also greet the Confraternity of Saint James of Perugia, present here with the spiritual assistant, Archbishop Paolo Giulietti of Lucca; they too are engaged in this service of evangelization.​

It is interesting to see how the number of pilgrims to Santiago has grown over the last thirty years. And among these there are also my predecessors Saint John Paul II and Benedict XVI, who wished to visit the Shrine, especially because of its great prominence in the Christian history of Europe.​

This numerical growth is a very positive fact, and at the same time it poses a serious question: are the people who complete the Way of Saint James carrying out a true pilgrimage? This is the question we must answer. Or is it something else? Obviously, there are different experiences, but the question makes us reflect.​

​

We can recognize the Christian pilgrimage to the Tombs of the Apostles from three signs […]​

​

For the whole address in IT or EN: https://www.vatican.va/content/fran...r/documents/20241219-pellegrini-santiago.html

These versions are not direct, word for word translations of the Pope’s talk to Italian Pilgrims and can emphasize a slightly different perspective.

The German Version adds in a paragraph about “Der Leiter des Zentrums für Islamische Theologie an der Uni Münster, Mouhanad Khorchide, ist unlängst nach Santiago de Compostela gepilgert und hat über seine Erfahrungen ein Buch geschrieben („Ein Muslim auf dem Jakobsweg“). Was ihn irritiert hat: Viele von denen, die mit ihm unterwegs waren, hatten keinerlei religiöse Motive; vielmehr ging es ihnen darum, sozusagen zu sich selbst zu kommen.” which I don’t see in the English or Italian Versions (can’t read French).

Translated:

The director of the Center for Islamic Theology at the University of Münster, Mouhanad Khorchide, recently made a pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela and wrote a book about his experiences (“A Muslim on the Way of St. James”). What irritated him was that many of those who were traveling with him had no religious motives whatsoever; they were more interested in finding themselves, so to speak.

Why does the Author add this in? Is it for emphasis of his own belief or reinforcement? Does it have anything to do with why the author used the Word “Hype” in his title?Not sure..l

 

[kelleymac]

These versions are not direct, word for word translations of the Pope’s talk to Italian Pilgrims and can emphasize a slightly different perspective.

The German Version adds in a paragraph about “Der Leiter des Zentrums für Islamische Theologie an der Uni Münster, Mouhanad Khorchide, ist unlängst nach Santiago de Compostela gepilgert und hat über seine Erfahrungen ein Buch geschrieben („Ein Muslim auf dem Jakobsweg“). Was ihn irritiert hat: Viele von denen, die mit ihm unterwegs waren, hatten keinerlei religiöse Motive; vielmehr ging es ihnen darum, sozusagen zu sich selbst zu kommen.” which I don’t see in the English or Italian Versions (can’t read French).

Translated:

The director of the Center for Islamic Theology at the University of Münster, Mouhanad Khorchide, recently made a pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela and wrote a book about his experiences (“A Muslim on the Way of St. James”). What irritated him was that many of those who were traveling with him had no religious motives whatsoever; they were more interested in finding themselves, so to speak.

Why does the Author add this in? Is it for emphasis of his own belief or reinforcement? Does it have anything to do with why the author used the Word “Hype” in his title?Not sure..l

I was wondering the same thing.

Regarding the "Hyp": There was recently a German movie about the camino-- Ich bin dann mal Weg. It was also a book (2009). While in Germany last week, a few people I spoke to at a party were planning on walking. "But not for religious reasons" they assured me. They had seen the movie and were really enthusiastic. Has anyone here in the forum seen it?

 

[JabbaPapa]

Pope Francis, in this article does not emphasize that one must suffer and experience bodily pain for it to be a pilgrimage.

I have been annoyed with this all too common misconception since the 1990s.

From a Catholic perspective, and certainly in what I understand from these remarks by the Pope, a foot pilgrimage is from Parish to Parish to Parish and is rooted in not pain and suffering -- although these are inevitable in our human condition -- but in the Eucharist and the Gospel.

In the positives and the joys and in love, not in the pain along the Way.

 

[Old Kiwi]

I am not religious. I prefer to walk my caminos alone and in silence as it gives me time to think without interruption. I think about the universe and everything in it and ask myself all of the questions as to how and why it all works. You can have deep discussions with yourself over long periods of thought, and it is amasing what you can learn from it. In the evenings, I am like other pilgrims and love to converse with people from all over the world.

 

[AlwynWellington]

I found this interesting food for thought.
I am not very good at silence, but I was glad to be given and to read the Gospel of St Luke that I was given in Le Puy-en-Velay after the morning pilgrim mass there.

Pope Francis said:
"the true Christian pilgrimage experience requires silence, which allows one 'to listen with the heart and to find in that way, while walking and through tiredness, the responses which the heart seeks. Along the way, be attentive to others, especially those who are struggling the most, those who have fallen, those in need,”

With a daily cycle of:

• wake
• get ready
• walk
• find my way
• remember at noon, when going west, the sun is on my left
• marvel at the differences from those found at home
• have a rest or three
• find my way
• find a hostel
• wash soiled clothes
• eat
• sleep

it can be very hard to "listen with the heart" and so on.

But opportunities still present themseleves, unasked.

I was at the evening parish mass at Logrono.
Down the centre of the church were longish wooden bench seating. I was alone on the right hand side and three not so young women were some distance away to my left.

At the Peace I turned to my left. But, rather than just waving, I moved to the nearest woman and extended my hands. As she took mine I felt something metallic. Resuming my place I looked into my hands and saw a 1 Euro coin. It was treasure. I turned to the woman and, holding my hands as in prayer, I bowed to her. She acknowledged.

It was she who was attentive to others.

 

[Kathor1]

Why does the Author add this in? Is it for emphasis of his own belief or reinforcement? Does it have anything to do with why the author used the Word “Hype” in his title?Not sure..

The authors of these news reports on the Vatican’s website are employees of the Vatican’s own news service. I’m a little surprised about this question/remark. The quoted book author - apparently a known sociologist and theologian - simply made the same observation as the topic that the Pope raised: on the Camino not all are on a Christian pilgrimage. Quite a lot are not, actually. Btw, a bit of googling reveals that this book author also made other observations, for example that walking the Camino is an inner journey to oneself for many. His book was published this summer.

Not everybody came to the Camino through movies like The Way or through one of the many contemporary Camino books and YouTube videos. For many who have acquired Camino knowledge, either through walking themselves or having consumed a lot of book knowledge and video knowledge, it is self-evident that on the Camino, numerous pilgrims are on a pilgrimage but not on a Christian pilgrimage.

For many others with a different religious-cultural background, for example a Muslim living in Austria and Germany who has been on pilgrimage to Mecca several times, or those living in the Catholic heartlands of Germany like Bavaria or the Cologne area or in Austria where pilgrimage, both local/regional and to Rome and Lourdes, are lived experience and witnessed experience, this typical characteristic of the Camino de Santiago comes as a surprise.

 

[SabsP]

At the Peace I turned to my left. But, rather than just waving, I moved to the nearest woman and extended my hands. As she took mine I felt something metallic. Resuming my place I looked into my hands and saw a 1 Euro coin. It was treasure. I turned to the woman and, holding my hands as in prayer, I bowed to her. She acknowledged.

It was she who was attentive to others.

Could it be that she gave you that coin for prayer intention / lighting a candle once you reached Santiago de Compostela? This sounds more plausible than the mere idea of a random gift to a pilgrim?
It is not uncommon in catholic communities and parishes that someone gives some money to a pilgrim in order to pray / other intention when he/ she arrives in Santiago or other places of Pilgrimage.

For example : when we walk to local Scherpenheuvel some of the elderly parishioners will give us some money to pay for a Mass.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

Could it be that she gave you that coin for prayer intention / lighting a candle once you reached Santiago de Compostela? This sounds more plausible than the mere idea of a random gift to a pilgrim?
It is not uncommon in catholic communities and parishes that someone gives some money to a pilgrim in order to pray / other intention when he/ she arrives in Santiago or other places of Pilgrimage.

For example : when we walk to local Scherpenheuvel some of the elderly parishioners will give us some money to pay for a Mass.

Yes, absolutely -- people unfamiliar with the hopes of those who cannot make the pilgrimage for those who can to carry their burdens for them may not see that this is what happening... that it is not a "gift" per se... but at the same time, it does require attentiveness to the pilgrim and care for their continued good progress. In this sense, even the "buen camino" from locals falls into the "please make a good journey so that my prayers can travel with you" tradition.
But all gifts and well wishes are kind of like this, and they all require things like attention and reciprocity.

 

[OSUBuckeye85]

The responses above sadden me beyond, well beyond, my ability to respond to what they have written ...

Have modern humans gone so far in lack of humility and awareness of other? Is the modern world so lost and ego-centric that people can go on an ancient Catholic pilgrimage and at the same time denigrate the leader of the Catholic church when he speaks about it?

Are they on holiday? Taking a bucket list hike?

I have said for many years, over twelve years, that to go on pilgrimage as a pilgrim one has to travel alone. To go on pilgrimage one has to switch off all electronic devices; no phones, no tablets, no music from earplugs ...

No demanding, only gratitude ... has everyone truly forgotten? It is a Pilgrimage - and yes, the silence spaces are integral to being able to hear that quiet whisper ....

The modern consumer fetishist egoist reality is unreal and false .. there is a deeper reality ... go for weeks of being a pilgrim and all may, just may, become clear ...

Look, the Pope didn't become the leader of the Roman church because he won a tv reality show, or because he had made millions or billions off other people .. he was chosen as Pope as he is a truly good person who has spent his life being a highly intelligent deep thinker and deep theologian .. before you mock what he says be aware that he has spent his life truly seeing this manifestation of reality that we encounter ... if you wish to disagree .. go elsewhere for your holiday hike, but please, don't belittle the pilgrimage, nor Pope Francis.

Well said.... and thanks for this post

 

[OSUBuckeye85]

Sometimes what one doesn't say is worth noting!
Pope Francis, in this article does not emphasize that one must suffer and experience bodily pain for it to be a pilgrimage. But if one wants to sacrifice, let it be for the sake of someone else. Give up that lower bunk that another pilgrim may need more. Let someone else get take that last pastry. Pause to help an injured pilgrim, even when it costs you time and you lose that bunk at your favorite hostel. Listen to an angry or disruptive pilgrim whom you don't want to be with for a while and find out why they are so out of sorts….

I appreciate your thoughts. They helped give me perspective on my walk in April.

 

[Marbe2]

The authors of these news reports on the Vatican's website are employees of the Vatican's own news service. I'm a little surprised about this question/remark. The quoted book author - apparently a known sociologist and theologian - simply made the same observation as the topic that the Pope raised: on the Camino not all are on a Christian pilgrimage. Quite a lot are not, actually. Btw, a bit of googling reveals that this book author also made other observations, for example that walking the Camino is an inner journey to oneself for many. His book was published this summer.

Not everyone came to the Camino through movies like The Way or through one of the many contemporary Camino books and YouTube videos. For many who have acquired Camino knowledge, either through walking themselves or having consumed a lot of book knowledge and video knowledge, it is self-evident that on the Camino, numerous pilgrims are on a pilgrimage but not on a Christian pilgrimage.

For many others with a different religious-cultural background, for example a Muslim living in Austria and Germany who has been on pilgrimage to Mecca several times, or those living in the Catholic heartlands of Germany like Bavaria or the Cologne area or in Austria where pilgrimage , both local/regional and to Rome and Lourdes, are lived experience and witnessed experience, this typical characteristic of the Camino de Santiago comes as a surprise.

From Italian paragraph: Una Pellegrinaggio O Altro (paragraph translated with Google).


“A pilgrimage or something else? While on the one hand the numerical growth is recorded as a “very positive fact”; On the other hand, it raises a serious question: “Are the people who do the Camino de Santiago making a true pilgrimage? This is the question, we must answer. Or is it something else? Or obviously there are different experiences, but the question makes us reflect,” says Pope Francis.

Then Francis describes Catholic Italians who have made or served on the Camino
what he believes the factors or criteria are for making a good path are.
Silence, reading or meditating on the Gospels (no surprise from this Jesuit Pope),
and Charity to one's neighbors.

The German version quotes another source which includes the author (The director of the Center for Islamic Theology at the University of Münster, Mouhanad Khorchide, who recently made a pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela and wrote a book about his experiences (“ A Muslim on the Way of St. James.) as being “annoyed”. What irritated him was that many of those making the Camino who were traveling with him had no religious motives whatsoever; they were more interested in finding themselves, so to speak.

The Pope notes in the Italian version that all walkers may not be pilgrims, but doesn't elaborate why? No judgments made as I understood it.

However, The German version chose to add a negative tone to non religious by quoting a non Catholic author, who is annoyed because some (walking the Camino) had no religious motives whatsoever…they were more interested in finding themselves!

Across many religions, the journey of self-discovery is often intertwined with the concept of finding or connecting with a higher power or the divine.
Why should a Theologian be annoyed if someone is walking a path to find themselves? The theologian has a right to his opinion in his book, but I don't believe Frances would share this reaction and IMO it adds an unwelcoming tone for some.
Wish the German Author had omitted quote!

​

 

[Kathor1]

Caution please, across many religions, the journey of self-discovery is often intertwined with the concept of finding or connecting with a higher power or the divine.

It is exactly what this author says, too, in his book. Which, incidently, I bought two days ago, as a Kindle version, because of positive reviews and an interview the author had with Domradio.de - a broadcast service of Cologne Cathedral. Due to the fact of it being busy Christmas time in my household right now I’ve not had time to read it, other than the first few pages

If I may not mince my words: You are making way too much fuss about a sentence in a foreign language article about this audience with the Pope and what he said and what he meant. There are several news reports about this audience in regional Galician newspapers because the Santiago Archbishop Prieto travelled with the Guanellian Fathers to Rome. Apparently 5000 Italian pilgrims participated in the audience. It was a private audience for them - they could apply to be invited if I understood correctly.

One point - and again, this is not discussing religion, just pointing out one fact - of the three points addressed by the Pope is evangelisation - living the Gospel and spreading the word.

It still amuses me to this day that when I started to participate in this forum I mentioned an article in La Croix where a number of Spanish and French Catholic bishops had gathered (in Bordeaux if I remember correctly) and had walked a bit of the chemin / Camino and discussed it. I was merely interested in learning more about THEIR view of the contemporary Camino phenomenon. I was admonished by a moderator and told about the rules of not trolling and not “discussing” religion on this forum.

 

[Marbe2]

It is exactly what this author says, too, in his book. Which, incidently, I bought two days ago, as a Kindle version, because of positive reviews and an interview the author had with Domradio.de - a broadcast service of Cologne Cathedral. Due to the fact that it being busy Christmas time in my household right now I’ve not had time to read it.

If I may not mince my words: You are making way too much fuss about a sentence in a foreign language article about this audience with the Pope and what he said and what he meant. There are several news reports about this audience in regional Galician news media because the Santiago Archbishop Prieto travelled with the Guanellian Fathers to Rome. Apparently 5000 Italian pilgrims participated in the audience. It was a private audience for them - they could apply to be invited if I understood correctly.

One point - and again, this is not discussing religion, just pointing out one fact - of the three points addressed by the Pope is evangelisation - living the Gospel and spreading the word.

It still amuses me to this day that when I first participated in this forum I mentioned an article in La Croix where a number of Spanish and French Catholic bishop had gathered (in Bordeaux perhaps) and had walked a bit of the chemin / Camino and discussed it. I was merely interred in THEIR view of the Camino. I was admonished by a moderator and told about the rules of not trolling and no religion on the forum .

I am glad the Theologian clarified that in some religions seeking self knowledge is a path to God or a higher power in his book. But unfortunately the German author neglected to include that statement in his translation…..this omission colored the Theologians statement and the tone of the article.

You may think it I am making too much of the point, but once the post was made, and someone raised the question about the German Title, and after reading the German translation, I realized that folks who might read it, who are seeking self-awareness, might be put off from walking by this quote. I hope those who are not on this forum and read only the German version are not discouraged by it. As far as what gets posted and omitted hear

 

[Kathor1]

But unfortunately the German author neglected to include that statement in his translation…..this this omission colored the Theologians statement and the tone.

These articles on the Vatican’s website are NOT translations. I personally did not see negativity or criticism in the DE language version - neither in the title nor in the text. Merely illustrating content and meaning for an informed readership.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Could it be that she gave you that coin for prayer intention / lighting a candle once you reached Santiago de Compostela? This sounds more plausible than the mere idea of a random gift to a pilgrim?

A "random" gift sounds frankly more plausible.

In my experience, when people are requesting a prayer on their behalf, or on the behalf of some other person(s), they will say so most clearly and straightforwardly.

 

[JabbaPapa]

These articles on the Vatican’s website are NOT translations.

Well they are -- but there has been a long-standing and worsening state of affairs whereby translations from Vatican sources have been more and more inaccurate.

Anecdotally, my own radical atheist brother was (indirectly) hired by the Vatican to do some translations -- and he boasted to me of having deliberately inserted some anti-Christian and anti-Catholic mistranslations.

He cannot be alone in having done so, as even the 1960s English translations of the Vatican II texts depart frequently from the original Latin, sometimes even egregiously so.

Apart from that, contemporary translation work is only rarely carefully hand-crafted and properly considerate of actual meaning, but most of it is churned out by means of computer-assisted hack work.

AI is of course making that bad situation worse.

One really should just look at the original Italian : https://www.acistampa.com/story/275...i-santiago-lungo-la-strada-attenti-agli-altri

 

[Marbe2]

These articles on the Vatican's website are NOT translations. I personally did not see negativity or criticism in the DE language version - neither in the title nor in the text. Merely illustrating content and meaning for an informed readership.

So we agree that it was not a direct translation. And certainly the author has a right to add content, but we respectfully disagree about the impact that his error of omission had, which IMO slanted the article regarding non religious walkers, particularly those seeking self knowledge. And how many pilgrims does that impact?