From Catholic News Service: True Christian pilgrimages are rooted in silence, the Gospel, pope says

[kelleymac]

I found this interesting food for thought.
I am not very good at silence, but I was glad to be given and to read the Gospel of St Luke that I was given in Le Puy-en-Velay after the morning pilgrim mass there.

“Along the way, be attentive to others, especially those who are struggling the most, those who have fallen, those in need,” the pope said."

True Christian pilgrimages are rooted in silence, the Gospel, pope says - Catholic Review

To have a true Christian pilgrimage experience along the Camino de Santiago -- the popular pilgrimage in northern Spain that leads to the tomb of St. James -- pilgrims must cultivate silence, prayer and charity along their route, Pope Francis said.

catholicreview.org

 

[Rebekah Scott]

OMG, the pope has violated the Big Forbidden of Camino Discussion: What is a true pilgrim? The NERVE!!

 

[TravellingMan22]

I found this interesting food for thought. I am not very good at silence, but I was happy to read the Gospel of St Luke that I was given in Le Puy-en-Velay after the morning pilgrim mass.

“Along the way, be attentive to others, especially those who are struggling the most, those who have fallen, those in need,” the pope said."

True Christian pilgrimages are rooted in silence, the Gospel, pope says - Catholic Review

To have a true Christian pilgrimage experience along the Camino de Santiago -- the popular pilgrimage in northern Spain that leads to the tomb of St. James -- pilgrims must cultivate silence, prayer and charity along their route, Pope Francis said.

catholicreview.org

Gosh what nonsense (him not you)!

 

[henrythedog]

‘Shut up and get on with it’ - might have been addressed to me.

 

[SabsP]

Gosh what nonsense (him not you)!

Well it is the core business of the catholic Church? We can or cannot agree with it but those are the rules of the " club " so here we are.
On a personal level you might find it nonsense but we can at least find a common ground and accept that others walk pilgrim paths in different ways then you and I.

 

[VNwalking]

Gosh what nonsense (him not you)!

You might not like it, but it's true.

 

[kelleymac]

OMG, the pope has violated the Big Forbidden of Camino Discussion: What is a true pilgrim? The NERVE!!

Well.... hmmm. The Pope isn't discussing a "true pilgrim" but rather a "true Christian pilgrim".

 

[Vacajoe]

OMG, the pope has violated the Big Forbidden of Camino Discussion: What is a true pilgrim? The NERVE!!

LOVE this comment, especially from you!!!! Thankfully the pilgrimage will outlive whatever fad says the world needs to be partying along it at this stage in its existence.

 

[David]

The responses above sadden me beyond, well beyond, my ability to respond to what they have written ...

Have modern humans gone so far in lack of humility and awareness of other? Is the modern world so lost and ego-centric that people can go on an ancient Catholic pilgrimage and at the same time denigrate the leader of the Catholic church when he speaks about it?

Are they on holiday? Taking a bucket list hike?

I have said for many years, over twelve years, that to go on pilgrimage as a pilgrim one has to travel alone. To go on pilgrimage one has to switch off all electronic devices; no phones, no tablets, no music from earplugs ...

No demanding, only gratitude ... has everyone truly forgotten? It is a Pilgrimage - and yes, the silence spaces are integral to being able to hear that quiet whisper ....

The modern consumer fetishist egoist reality is unreal and false .. there is a deeper reality ... go for weeks of being a pilgrim and all may, just may, become clear ...

Look, the Pope didn't become the leader of the Roman church because he won a tv reality show, or because he had made millions or billions off other people .. he was chosen as Pope as he is a truly good person who has spent his life being a highly intelligent deep thinker and deep theologian .. before you mock what he says be aware that he has spent his life truly seeing this manifestation of reality that we encounter ... if you wish to disagree .. go elsewhere for your holiday hike, but please, don't belittle the pilgrimage, nor Pope Francis.

 

[falcon269]

As a pre-social media pilgrim, I would yearn for the relative silence of the good old days. Pilgrims talked to each other.

 

[Bradypus]

As a pre-social media pilgrim, I would yearn for the relative silence of the good old days. Pilgrims talked to each other.

True. But that wasn't/isn't always a blessing. I have sometimes added a few km to my day to put some distance between myself and an overly-demanding and intrusive specimen.

 

[Tincatinker]

Ah David. Where is it written “Mock not for thou shall be also…”

I’ve no doubt that Francis is a good and honourable man. Some of his recent interventions support that assumption. But the long history of the Papacy from the Borgias to Pius XII will leave some to doubt the institution if not the individual.

Francis’ advice to those who undertake a catholic pilgrimage to a catholic shrine might even convey a clear message to those groups of chanting and singing youths who seem to have riled the good citizens of Galicia in recent years.

The rest of us? We’ll make our pilgrimage to the bones of one who may have stood with the divine in our own quiet way as we always have

 

[Kathor1]

Well.... hmmm. The Pope isn't discussing a "true pilgrim" but rather a "true Christian pilgrim".

Just for info: The website of the Vatican has articles / press releases about this meeting between the Pope and Italian Saint James pilgrims in various languages. The interesting thing, at least for me, is the fact that these are not translations. They are written by native speakers / reporters and taken together they provide a more complete picture of what the Pope said and meant. The diverse headlines alone provide already a better impression of where the focus of pilgrimage lies for the Pope:

• Spanish version: Vivir el Camino de Santiago como auténticos apóstoles de Jesús
• German version: Papst sieht Hype um Jakobsweg skeptisch
• French version: Le Pape encourage les pèlerins à l’apostolat de l'évangélisation
• English version: Pope: A pilgrimage needs silence, the Gospel, and Matthew 25

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Pope Francis: "Are people who walk the Camino de Santiago making a true pilgrimage? Or is it something else?”

Mostly, I think it's something else. I include myself, alas.
Food for thought. I think it is hard to have a contemplative time on the CF. Maybe on the other routes.

 

[dick bird]

Just be nice to people, it's not that hard.

This thread is bordering on a discussion of religion, by the way.

 

[Pilgrim9]

OMG, the pope has violated the Big Forbidden of Camino Discussion: What is a true pilgrim? The NERVE!!

I will defer to the Pope.

 

[dougfitz]

I find the notion of being able to walk in quiet contemplation quite appealing. It was one of the attractions of walking the Gudbrandsdalsleden when I first walked there over a decade ago after walking the much busier CF in 2010. Finding these moments seems easier on the less travelled routes, which makes those very attractive to me. I expect that there will be a time where I come into SDC along one of the busier routes, and I hope that I will still be able to find quiet time when I do.

 

[truenorthpilgrm]

Food for thought. I think it is hard to have a contemplative time on the CF. Maybe on the other routes.

I agree. I'm no monk, but finding windows of quiet and peace, (let alone space) is a struggle on the CF. I will only do the CF in the very late fall/winter, or walk other routes.

 

[Kirkie]

Rather like @Kathor1 , I went looking for a source. Not in Italy, Baltimore, MD. Not the content, but how it is presented, isn’t that crucial?
Reminds me of an exercise in circles I moved in 40 years ago: compare the same item of ‘news’ in a range of newspapers. Which one tells the truth? That would be an impossible conversation to have nowadays! And certainly not on this forum.

 

[Kathor1]

Pope Francis understands pilgrimage as Christian pilgrimage, as already pointed out.

As I said, take the articles in the various languages as a whole to better understand what he talks about. He doesn’t talk about silence to find onself and who you were meant to be or find answers one may not even have asked yet - which is often part of defining a Camino pilgrimage for oneself and, alas, too often for all others. Nor does he criticise this and he does not make a comparison between the Camino Francés and other Caminos. It is pointed out that Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul II were pilgrims to Santiago. That alone ought to make it clear that this is not about backpack carrying over 500 miles. John Paul II walked from Monte do Gozo, this is maximum 5 km, and Benedict did not even walk outside of Santiago if I remember correctly.

One of the articles has this quote: “The pilgrims of old teach us that one returns from Christian pilgrimages as an apostle! I make the pilgrimage and return as an apostle to proclaim Jesus!” You hear similar words at the end of every pilgrim mass in Santiago, something like return home and live the Gospel.

This is not “discussing religion”. It is understanding one definition and one understanding of Christian pilgrimages. There are numerous other definitions and understandings of Camino pilgrimages.

One of the three defining elements of his understanding of pilgrimage is reading the Evangelium every day.

 

[SabsP]

Just be nice to people, it's not that hard.

This thread is bordering on a discussion of religion, by the way.

We can be nice to people and objective and informative at the same time.
Thank you to those who do this here. It is much appreciated to read some original sources.

 

[Pafayac]

According to me, the key point is the silence.
That does not mean we should no pronounce a word, like "Do you see a yellow arrow, I did not for hours" or "Do you think we will find pimientos de Padrón in next bar ?", which are essential sentences, but just that silence can not bore those who like music, although music can bore those who like silence.
There are many hiking trails for those who like listening music while walking, many pilgrimages for those who like singing, but the silence of the Camino should be preserved.

 

[Kathor1]

We can be nice to peoole and objective and informative at the same time. Thank you to those who do this here.

Amen to that. Let's hope so. As one could see again very recently, it takes only one or two participants to run a thread into the ground and have it closed.

 

[Marbe2]

The responses above sadden me beyond, well beyond, my ability to respond to what they have written...

Have modern humans gone so far in lack of humility and awareness of others? Is the modern world so lost and ego-centric that people can go on an ancient Catholic pilgrimage and at the same time denigrate the leader of the Catholic church when he speaks about it?

Are they on holiday? Taking a bucket list hike?

I have said for many years, over twelve years, that to go on pilgrimage as a pilgrim one has to travel alone. To go on pilgrimage one has to switch off all electronic devices; no phones, no tablets, no music from earplugs...

No demanding, only gratitude... has everyone truly forgotten? It is a Pilgrimage - and yes, the silence spaces are integral to being able to hear that quiet whisper....

The modern consumer fetishist egoist reality is unreal and false.. there is a deeper reality... go for weeks of being a pilgrim and all may, just may, become clear...

Look, the Pope didn't become the leader of the Roman church because he won a reality tv show, or because he had made millions or billions off other people .. he was chosen as Pope as he is a truly good person who has spent his life being a highly intelligent deep thinker and profound theologian .. before you mock what he says be aware that he has spent his life truly seeing this manifestation of reality that we encounter ... if you wish to disagree .. go elsewhere for your holiday hike, but please, don't belittle the pilgrimage, nor Pope Francis.

The Camino is an ancient pilgrimage route. But not everyone who walks is Catholic or even uses bibles in their religion. Some are atheists. Remember that, Pope Francis was specifically, addressing Italian Catholics! What if The Pope had been addressing an ecumenical group?


For his flock, however, Francis emphasized, two areas I think are applicable to most of us. Cultivating silence. This does not mean that everyone has to make a path alone! It means being able to carve out substantial periods of quiet when one can have a listening heart. That can be pilgrims walking together in silence, or apart for periods of time. Rhythmically and comfortably walking each step quietly can become the prayer.

There is also emphasis in this article on charity . How can we show charity on the Camino: by feeding a hungry pilgrim, helping out someone who may be sleeping outside because they are short on funds. By giving up our hard won, lower bunk for a later arrival who needs it more than you. Being selfless….


Sometimes what one doesn't say is worth noting!
Pope Francis, in this article does not emphasize that one must suffer and experience bodily pain for it to be a pilgrimage. But if one wants to sacrifice, let it be for the sake of someone else. Give up that lower bunk that another pilgrim may need more. Let someone else get take that last pastry. Pause to help an injured pilgrim, even when it costs you time and you lose that bunk at your favorite hostel. Listen to an angry or disruptive pilgrim whom you don't want to be with for a while and find out why they are so out of sorts….

 

[Pafayac]

by feeding a hungry pilgrim

I look forward to meeting you on the Camino !

 

[Gerard Griffin]

Just be nice to people, it's not that hard.

This thread is bordering on a discussion of religion, by the way.

I knew it .. our moderators, ever vigilant to protect us weaklings from offenses of thought and spirit, would shut out the Pope himself. Reminds me of my pious mother telling me long ago "you'd argue with the pope!".

I still would, but I wouldn't shut him down

 

[WalkingPlaylist]

The logic argument seems to work in the Pope's favor and what he says is true. The route IS a Catholic Pilgrimage...period. Those that are not Catholic and choose to walk it should be respectful. They don't have to partake in the pilgrim masses, stop and pray at churches, or even believe in God, but they do and should respect the path and those who walk it in faith.

As a Catholic, I take to heart his words and advice for my pilgrimages and have done them in the spirit of silence so they are meaningful and purposeful. I shepherded my elderly father on each, which I believe a child of any time period would have done for a parent.

 

[kelleymac]

Just for info: The website of the Vatican has articles / press releases about this meeting between the Pope and Italian Saint James pilgrims in various languages. The interesting thing, at least for me, is the fact that these are not translations. They are written by native speakers / reporters and taken together they provide a more complete picture of what the Pope said and meant. The diverse headlines alone provide already a better impression of where the focus of pilgrimage lies for the Pope:

• Spanish version: Vivir el Camino de Santiago como auténticos apóstoles de Jesús
• German version: Papst sieht Hype um Jakobsweg skeptisch
• French version: Le Pape encourage les pèlerins à l’apostolat de l'évangélisation
• English version: Pope: A pilgrimage needs silence, the Gospel, and Matthew 25

The difference between the German title and the others is remarkable.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

Just be nice to people, it's not that hard.

This thread is bordering on a discussion of religion, by the way.

Yes, just be nice to people… and I appreciate you keeping an eye on the thread content, but as long as we are discussing not religion per se, but rather the matter of a code for travellers and those who host them, I hope we can persist a little on the matter.

Upthread,@David observed that it is far too common that we encounter those walking a camino who easily and thoughtlessly denigrate the institution that laid its foundations, the institution that remains a motivational reminder of the faith and dogma to “go forward glorifying the Lord with your lives” every day (meaning, for example, that the people who live along camino routes and provide the unusual kindnesses that we have found so remarkable — no, not the cheap beds and pilgrim meals, but rather the growing of a garden plot outside one’s gate that says ‘por los peregrinos’, or pressing into one’s palm the fruit off your tree, or driving out on the farm trails with bottles of water and snacks and making sure that the walkers on those very hot or very wet days have some sustenance on that long stage…)

Those things happen because of a belief system that structures them to happen.

It saddens me to encounter people who are happy to take the fruit and to give nothing back except scorn…

If the Pope is calling upon people to consider what on earth makes them greet kindness with scorn, what makes them think that a pilgrimage is nothing more than a mobile social group… that is not “religion” (religion is merely the framework in which the Pope does his work), but we can listen without being dismissive, and without becoming Catholic.

Too early in the morning, and not far enough into my first coffee for any greater lucidity than this, and it ain’t much.

But the discussion of ethics, coming from whatever source, is not a discussion of religion. What do we owe to the camino? To ourselves? To those who do the work every day…? The Pope has one take on it, and that take comes, as @SabsP notes, from the structural framework of the institution he leads, we can discuss the *content* of that take quite legitimately without it being a discussion about religion.

But when one roars in with glib prejudices and insults, that is where I think we run into the very reason for the prohibition on ‘discussing religion’.

Maybe we need a different rule? Something like, “regardless of the topic, don’t be rude — or crude”…

Not a German speaker myself but does the title say that the Pope is skeptical that the Camino de Santiago is a pilgrimage? If so, I mean… he’s got a point. People who want it both ways (something like: “I’m not a pilgrim, and pilgrims are superstitious fools! I want the compostelaaaaaaaa!!!!!”) baffle me.

 

[Tandem Graham]

I am not a Catholic, though I have probably been to more Catholic masses in French, Spanish and Italian during my various pilgrimage adventures of the last few years than services in my "home church" of English Methodism.
However I suggest that what the Pope has to say on pilgrimage is inspiring, instructive or at least thought provoking to most people who join pilgrim routes, people of all faiths and of none. You don't have to agree with every nuance to appreciate his contribution to the (often divisive) topic of the nature of pilgrimage.

 

[kelleymac]

Rather like @Kathor1 , I went looking for a source. Not in Italy, Baltimore, MD. Not the content, but how it is presented, isn’t that crucial?
Reminds me of an exercise in circles I moved in 40 years ago: compare the same item of ‘news’ in a range of newspapers. Which one tells the truth? That would be an impossible conversation to have nowadays! And certainly not on this forum.

I read the German version, muddled through the french, and then read the english version-- the differences were interesting.

I want to write more but I'm typing with my left hand only as I broke my rt. arm two weeks ago. Also, sorry about mistakes in capitalization above.

p.s. I suppose the fractured ulna is a form of enforced silence for me. ha.

 

[Dani7]

Respect and tolerance for different beliefs and motivations, or differing opinions will inherently remove the « rude and crude ». Thank you for you thoughtful post @Perambulating Griffin.

 

[John Sikora]

I prefer to think not as much about silence as saying only what needs to be said at that moment and not adding to the general cacaphony of trivia that tries to continually take our attention away from what is right in front of our noses.

 

[dfox]

Pope Francis said: the true Christian pilgrimage experience requires silence, which allows one “to listen with the heart and to find in that way, while walking and through tiredness, the responses which the heart seeks.”

I believe he referred to the spirituality aspect of pilgrimage, rather than the social aspect of it.

 

[dfox]

Here is a link to the write up in Vatican News on the topic.

Pope: A pilgrimage needs silence, the Gospel, and Matthew 25 - Vatican News

Speaking to pilgrims from the Camino de Santiago in Spain, the Pope encourages the group to reflect on what makes a pilgrimage versus a simple ...

www.vaticannews.va

 

[lt56ny]

The responses above sadden me beyond, well beyond, my ability to respond to what they have written ...

Have modern humans gone so far in lack of humility and awareness of other? Is the modern world so lost and ego-centric that people can go on an ancient Catholic pilgrimage and at the same time denigrate the leader of the Catholic church when he speaks about it?

Are they on holiday? Taking a bucket list hike?

I have said for many years, over twelve years, that to go on pilgrimage as a pilgrim one has to travel alone. To go on pilgrimage one has to switch off all electronic devices; no phones, no tablets, no music from earplugs ...

No demanding, only gratitude ... has everyone truly forgotten? It is a Pilgrimage - and yes, the silence spaces are integral to being able to hear that quiet whisper ....

The modern consumer fetishist egoist reality is unreal and false .. there is a deeper reality ... go for weeks of being a pilgrim and all may, just may, become clear ...

Look, the Pope didn't become the leader of the Roman church because he won a tv reality show, or because he had made millions or billions off other people .. he was chosen as Pope as he is a truly good person who has spent his life being a highly intelligent deep thinker and deep theologian .. before you mock what he says be aware that he has spent his life truly seeing this manifestation of reality that we encounter ... if you wish to disagree .. go elsewhere for your holiday hike, but please, don't belittle the pilgrimage, nor Pope Francis.

Pope Francis: "Are people who walk the Camino de Santiago making a true pilgrimage? Or is it something else?”

Mostly, I think it's something else. I include myself, alas.
Food for thought. I think it is hard to have a contemplative time on the CF. Maybe on the other routes.

It is surprising to me that those who I have disagreed with or even had disagreements with in the past are the ones I agree with the most. It never surprises me how almost fiercely people hold on to their ideas about the Camino and often are the ones who profess the most "tolerance and non-judgemental" are the ones who are often the most dismissive, intolerant and condescending when their notions are challenging.
I am not Catholic. I do not like the often controlling nature of the powers that be in organized religion. There are incredible people doing incredible things in the name of service to G-d.
I have my own opinion of what pilgrimage is FOR me. Simplicity, peaceful, painful, sacrifice, mindlessness and self forgiveness to reach clarity, not of what you wanted but what you needed.
I know people say they have these profound and wonderful experiences while mostly walking the CF and often just a few days of it. How this occurs is not my business.
But for me the Camino Frances has deteriorated into sideshow of pilgrimage with thousands walking, often monotonous and meaningless chatter, fun and a whole host of other things. Of course not always and not all people. It is just MY FEELING and how it affects my walk.
I am no saint or angel. In fact my life has been far more adversarial than harmonious.
But walking in SILENCE, walking for the joy of the sounds around me, and the earth below, walking in heavy rain, wind, snow, and ice and being thankful I have the opportunity to be home on the camino is a wonderful gift. Not thinking about where to sleep, what the best restaurant to eat at, is there baggage transportation, is my "family" walking today even though I have blister the size of a pineapple, for me who needs it.
I think you do need silence and a chance to be contemplative and achieving discovery that you truly are your own best friend can be found on less traveled routes. Next year for me it is the Mozarabe, part of the VDLP and the Invierno at the end of the year sounds like heaven. Just like being on the Aragones and especially the Madrid where I only shared two albergue nights with others.
Camino is no holiday, no bucket, no music in my ears as I walk, it is a can of sardines and bread and a snickers bar and water for lunch. who knows what dinner will bring, maybe the same meal.
Like I said it should be hard, it should humble us.
I am no saint. I am no Catholic, I am no pilgrim in the eyes of the Pope or anyone else. I walk in the only way I know. Away from the hordes, away from the judgements I have heard and felt, away from the pilgrim families who are often the furthest thing from inclusive that I have observed.
Peace, solitude, respect
Oh yea for those of you who are saying I am making a judgement,well of course I am it doesn't tale a rocket scientist to figure that out. It is my opinion only and in situations like this are most opinions based on judgements.

 

[David]

Some marvellous responses in this thread .. but I think there is a common error re 'silence' ... spiritual silence is internal therefore one can be surrounded by all sorts of sounds without it having any adverse effect.

I have friends who do 'mindfulness' regularly (I don't think they actually practise mindfulness, more of a weekly hobby with friends to me) - but they sit in a garden or drive miles to a car park where they can walk into a quiet field and so on - going for that "silence" ... this is so completely in error.

Try this. Go to somewhere busy, a railway station at rush hour or a shopping mall at a weekend .. find a seat and sit .. allow eyes to naturally almost close and sit upright but relaxed ... allow the sounds to wash over you, through you .. after a while it has the same effect as sitting by the sea shore, the constant waves ... you become silent, calm, relaxed but alert, the sounds are part of you - no distinction between you and the sounds (the whole 'all is one' thing) ... children, dogs, people laughing or arguing ... it ebbs and flows and you are centred within it - that is mindfulness, that is the spiritual silence ... and once this is learnt one can be (and will be) able to enter that at any time - so it doesn't matter how busy the Camino is .. silence is not an external thing in this context ... go on, give yourself an hour and go practise that - you just may be amazed!

 

[Kirkie]

I read the German version, muddled through the french, and then read the english version-- the differences were interesting.

I want to write more but I'm typing with my left hand only as I broke my rt. arm two weeks ago. Also, sorry about mistakes in capitalization above.

p.s. I suppose the fractured ulna is a form of enforced silence for me. ha.

Can you speak to your device? I am trying that out, to help a friend who has macular degeneration. It will take a while, because things move more slowly as older persons adjust to a different stage of life, but it might be of use to you. Just a thought.

 

[chinacat]

@kelleymac

Hope your ulna soon heals.

Happy Christmas!

 

[RJM]

I think it's no secret and quite obvious that walking the Camino has become a bit of a fad for so many that do it, and I'll gladly take the barbs of judging others for saying that. I mean I've seen the pilgrims doing TikTok dancing videos while walking the Frances, I've seen the drone's buzzing overhead, much to the annoyance of locals and other pilgrims. The multitude of really bad youtube videos done by middle agers spouting cheap philosophy while walking to find themselves.
The Camino is no different than anything else similar such as the AT and PCT in the US. They get diluted with popularity and throngs of people flocking to them. Like a restaurant with great reviews that gets packed every night and people wait in line for hours to get in not realizing that when it becomes that busy, that crowded in a restaurant the food actually devolves in quality simply because the restaurant staff are swamped.

 

[bullingtonce]

Well.... hmmm. The Pope isn't discussing a "true pilgrim" but rather a "true Christian pilgrim".

Excellent point.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Just for the record: I deeply love and respect Pope Francis.

Yeah, there's a lot of noise and distraction on the Caminos in high season, especially the Frances.
But underneath all the plastic souvenirs and billboards and "must-sees" is a pilgrim path that continues to call to particular people. And particular people continue to respond.
A pilgrim walks in silence, even when the Pilgrim Family is analyzing their childhoods, even when the churches are locked, even when the g---m bagpiper is playing "Scotland the Brave" for the fifth time beneath his window at 3 a.m. He carries his silence with him. And his eyes are open to the needs around him, and he reaches out to people in need... not even just fellow pilgs! The Camino was formed by people like him, and it rises up to meet him, no matter what everyone else is doing on the path all around him.
...and when the Camino is no longer everyone's "bucket list" item, and the cute hostels and baggage porters all shut down, there will still be a few pilgrims out there, walking the Camino de Santiago.