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Which church where? May help respondents if we had a bit of context.Curious as to what the numbers carved in stone mean, does anyone have an answer?View attachment 114981
Anyone on this forum who can shed a light on the meaning of the numbers? Much appreciated
Am I right in assuming that practice no longer happens today? So there must be a list somewhere...matching names & dates to the numbers?Those mark graves. You’ll also see them inside churches, too. Burying the faithful within the church grounds not only ensured that their remains were on sacred ground but also provided a funding tool for the church.
When I spent some time in Guatemala a few years ago I was told that it was the same there.As an aside, on the Portuguese island of Madeira, burial space is at a premium and families essentially rent the gravesite. If payments stop, the tombstone is removed and discarded (easy to find stacks of them onsite!), the body/ashes removed and either reburied in a mass grave or returned to the family ).
No idea Tassie as I am asking for a friend who is in Galicia but only got the info via another platform. I have the idea thought that they are common and not just the one church...Which church where? May help respondents if we had a bit of context.
Will be interesting to find out...on both fronts...where & what!
As an aside, on the Portuguese island of Madeira, burial space is at a premium and families essentially rent the gravesite. If payments stop, the tombstone is removed and discarded (easy to find stacks of them onsite!), the body/ashes removed and either reburied in a mass grave or returned to the family ).
I believe the same thing happens in Norway... (@alexwalker may be able to chime in here to confirm). While walking St Olav's Way (Oslo to Trondheim) in 2016, I seem to recall actually seeing notices attached to headstones/markers effectively giving warning to the families that their loved ones were on borrowed time...or perhaps that should read 'borrowed ground'!When I spent some time in Guatemala a few years ago I was told that it was the same there.
France, Norway, Portugal … Germany, too. It’s quite common, in my opinion. The plot for an earth grave is used again for burial after 20-30 years, sometimes after 40 years if the soil has a very high clay content and unless the family wants to renew the concession against payment. The tombstone is returned to the family as it is their property, I‘ve never heard that this is done with the remains though (if there are any left).I believe the same thing happens in Norway...
Could it perhaps be a mass grave (eg. dare I say it, in the time of a pandemic, famine, natural disaster, etc) & the numbers indicate all those buried there, rather than an actual space per person?I‘m curious about these numbers. Looks like very small plots so I wonder whether there is another explanation.
That thought occurred to me too @dick bird. During my travels, I've been to various historical sites where stone has been 'recycled'.It is quite possible that these stones were re-used and had numbers from their original purpose. It is interesting that they are upside down to one another and not consecutive.
It’s far simpler to etch a number then an entire name, plus the stones can be reused for successive burials.Wouldn't it make more sense to put the names of the deceased on the stone?
I am aware of a version of this being practiced in a church in Ireland. They have constructed a wall 'panel' with small compartments approx 225 x 225mm (9 sq ins) where the ashes of family members can be deposited for a fee/donation.Am I right in assuming that practice no longer happens today? So there must be a list somewhere...matching names & dates to the numbers?
MarioandJulie,Very interesting! My comment is not related to barials, but I recall about 10 years ago there was a church on the camino with numbers on the stones. I dont recall the town, but apparently the church was moved stone-by-stone from the river bank to higher ground. The stones were numbered before disassembled and recontructed the same in the new location.
You are correct: We have to pay an extra fee to keep the site after a certain number of years. Tags are attached to "outgoing" tombstones to warn relatives that time is limited. If you do not pay a fee for more years, the grave will be readied for another "newbie".I believe the same thing happens in Norway... (@alexwalker may be able to chime in here to confirm). While walking St Olav's Way (Oslo to Trondheim) in 2016, I seem to recall actually seeing notices attached to headstones/markers effectively giving warning to the families that their loved ones were on borrowed time...or perhaps that should read 'borrowed ground'!
Cemeteries in Australia do the same thing but I haven't seen it in an actual church yard or the church itself.I am aware of a version of this being practiced in a church in Ireland. They have constructed a wall 'panel' with small compartments approx 225 x 225mm (9 sq ins) where the ashes of family members can be deposited for a fee/donation.
Thanks @alexwalker, for confirming what I thought I recalled seeing whilst on St Olav's Way in Norway...I wasn't 100% confident, thinking I may have got muddled up with another walk.You are correct: We have to pay an extra fee to keep the site after a certain nummber of years. Tags are attached to "outgoing graves to warn relatives that time is limited. If you do not pay a fee for more years, the grave will be readied for another "newbie".
On a personal note, we have been paying for our parents' grave (I believe it was done after 40 years), it's still standing, 52 years after my father left us. Our mother is also there. Will go and light candles on Christmas Eve ("Everybody" does that in Norway; it looks amazing (and comforting) with all the candles in the winter dark).
Try it yourself: light a candle on Christmas Eve for your departed love ones. Who knows; it may inspire others, and then you have it.Thanks @alexwalker, for confirming what I thought I recalled seeing whilst on St Olav's Way in Norway...I wasn't 100% confident, thinking I may have got muddled up with another walk.
What a lovely tradition and image you have planted with your description of the memorial candles on Christmas Eve.
Thank you very much. It is very special and giving. Respect to the folks who walked before us, and who have left us, and who we own our life for, literally. Try it.Best wishes for the season & especially for the time on Christmas Eve spent with your departed loved ones.
Cemeteries in Australia do the same thing but I haven't seen it in an actual church yard or the church itself.
Best wishes for the season & especially for the time on Christmas Eve spent with your departed loved ones.
It is becoming very popular in Norway too, to ask for an urne placement in a memorial site. Personally, I have instructed to be poured into my salmon river when the time comes. But, back to the numbers...My catholic church in Gerringong (part of Kiama Parish) has recently introduce a "memorial walk/wall" where one can purchase a space for ones ashes. I have purchased a place and as far as I know its in perpetuity. But will check if anyone is interested. Cheers
I'm surprised to read that the ossuary in the 'silo' of Roncesvalles is still used. There have been archaeological digs in recent years and I see now that a further excavation is planned for 2022: https://www.archaeological.org/fieldwork/ossuary-of-roncesvalles/the guide said the villagers move the bones into the deep crypt in the centre of the building after a certain time, like 30 years or so, because the space is limited on the perimeter.
It sounds a little odd to me because the village of Burguete which belongs to Roncesvalles and is closest to Roncesvalles has a cemetery of its own and apparently one that is well worth a visit: http://arte-historia-curiosidades.blogspot.com/2017/06/cementerio-burguete-auritz.html.There were new graves on the perimeter and the guide said the villagers move the bones into the deep crypt in the centre of the building after a certain time, like 30 years or so, because the space is limited on the perimeter.
Wow. I'd have jumped at this as an undergraduate, even long before walking a camino.Including a link to the application form for the two sessions in July and August 2022
VN,Wow. I'd have jumped at this as an undergraduate, even long before walking a camino.
But with an appreciation of the way? Wow.
Imagine, being from (say) Bordeaux or Paris - walking from home, pausing for the field school, then continuing on.
They describe the site as claustrophobic. I bet. It must be something else altogether.
One was of a young firefighter. As far as I remember, not checking now, there are a handful of people who live in Roncesvalles too.I would think that recent graves are those of priest who have lived at Roncesvalles?
The outer perimeter with the open arches is not, the crypt most certainly. You could see in through a kind of a window, deep and lots of bones and skulls in there.They describe the site as claustrophobic.
They were specifically referring to the archaeological dig area, yeah - down in the crypt - but digging even deeper.The outer perimeter with the open arches is not, the crypt most certainly. You could see in through a kind of a window, deep and lots of bones and skulls in there.