Will the Protest Against Tourists in Barcelona Come to Santiago?

[SBurgess]

This is a 7-minute video about residents of Barcelona protesting against over-tourism. It also comments on protests in other parts of the world. It also comments on the economic benefits for the tourist industry as well as the economic suffering of the residents.
The video is from YouTube. There are numerous articles from around the world about these protests.

tourist protest in barcelina - Google Search

 

[SBurgess]

Oops! Google will take you to the various articles about the subject.
My suggestion was the YouTube 7-minute video from Firstpost.
And I am speaking about the greater Santiago area, not just the area around the Cathedral.

 

[Marbe2]

Hey, if towns don’t want visitors, go elsewhere, or go off season! I have been to St. Peter’s in Rome at least 5 times. This past December ‘23 we were there in early December and entered when it first opened at 7:30am. We went through security in less than a minute, no lines. Then we spent about two hours there before maybe 200 people were inside. It was the first time I actually was able to absorb the beauty and experience the sacredness of the sight. And it was the first time I could actually see the floors of the Cathedral. On previous visits, there were such large crowds one couldn’t really see the markings on the floors. So controlled tourism may really benefit those who are fortunate enough to visit.

 

[MichaelB10398]

In my humble opinion, the contrast between tourism in Barcelona and the rest of Spain is quite pronounced. Barcelona finds itself inundated with all types of tourists, while Santiago follows a different path with more restricted tourism. For instance, while Barcelona receives a staggering 800 cruise ships annually, bringing over 3.5 million passengers, Santiago remains untouched by such maritime traffic. The closest cruise ships to Santiago de Compostela (SdC) dock at La Coruña, a distance of 47 miles away.

However, a global shift in mindset has occurred, emphasizing personal entitlement and satisfaction. The inconvenience caused by tourism, often seen as an “assault” on local culture, is now met with less tolerance. For me, this serves as a reminder: wherever I travel, I am a guest, and my behavior should remain respectful and considerate.

 

[Joe.Iozzi]

Santiago does receive tourists from cruise ships. Cruise ships dock in nearby ports (Vigo, Coruna ) and bus passengers to Santiago. It only takes an hour to drive from Vigo to Santiago. I have met several people people who have visited Santiago from ships that docked in Coruna. While it doesn't get to the ship tragic that Venice gets, it is a factor.

 

[PelegrinNikolai]

I would be hesitant about visiting Barcelona or Venice, particularly by cruise ship. This April, the locals in the beautiful port of Kuşadası, Türkiye, seemed very happy to receive the tourists from our Viking liner to their town because it was early in the season.

But yes, I am hesitant about visiting Barcelona at all.

 

[wayfarer]

The problem with tourists not being welcomed in Spain and other cities in Europe is mostly caused by greedy property owners evicting local long term tenants in favour of higher short term lets to tourists, this is causing a housing cricis all over tourist hotspots, the locals are sick of it and who can blame them. Until national and local government sorts this out we will not be welcome.

 

[jerbear]

The world is changing, and so must I. I try to stay flexible and bend with the wind..
..

 

[donalomahony]

This is a 7-minute video about residents of Barcelona protesting against over-tourism. It also comments on protests in other parts of the world. It also comments on the economic benefits for the tourist industry as well as the economic suffering of the residents.
The video is from YouTube. There are numerous articles from around the world about these protests.

tourist protest in barcelina - Google Search

 

[donalomahony]

There were rumblings last year::

https://www.fodors.com/world/europe...ain-has-had-just-about-enough-of-its-tourists

I know there was talk of a tourist tax around 2017 and I think a previous thread on the Forum...

 

[William Garza]

I wonder if that Eagles song applies here?

 

[Antonius Vaessen]

Hey, if towns don’t want visitors, go elsewhere, or go off season! I have been to St. Peter’s in Rome at least 5 times. This past December ‘23 we were there in early December and entered when it first opened at 7:30am. We went through security in less than a minute, no lines. Then we spent about two hours there before maybe 200 people were inside. It was the first time I actually was able to absorb the beauty and experience the sacredness of the sight. And it was the first time I could actually see the floors of the Cathedral. On previous visits, there were such large crowds one couldn’t really see the markings on the floors. So controlled tourism may really benefit those who are fortunate enough to visit.

The problem is not the consequences for the visitors but the problems for the inhabitants of the cities that receive many visitors(the sparce houses that are rented to tourists via Air B&B, the crowds and so on)

 

[t2andreo]

I wonder if those mounting these protests know how many local jobs are directly or indirectly the result of tourism. If the tourists leave, the local economy will take a big hit. Getting the jobs and the tourists that spawn them, back, is not an easy thing to do. Biting the proverbial "hand that feeds you" is not the way to go.

If local governments levy tourist taxes, and then, local folks cause tourists to leave, the local government will suffer the loss. Reductions in local services could result.

This is a case, where things must be done in moderation. Too much of a good thing is frequently not a good thing. Right now, with the peak tourist season approaching across Europe, we may see more of this.

It is my hope that cooler head prevail at major attractions, such as Santiago de Compostela. What is occurring at Barcelona is a shame. But they cannot have it both ways. If tourism is a main part of the local economy, then they must find ways to live with it - as a cost of living there. OTOH, if the city can live without tourism expenditures, then, by all means, resist tourism. But do not complain when your local economy craters.

Hope this helps the dialog,

(Edited on 12/07 to remove discussion of tourists avoiding places where they have not been made welcome - After consideration and few well-stated objections by others, I decided I do not want to go there.)

Tom

 

[natcire]

In my humble opinion, the contrast between tourism in Barcelona and the rest of Spain is quite pronounced. Barcelona finds itself inundated with all types of tourists, while Santiago follows a different path with more restricted tourism. For instance, while Barcelona receives a staggering 800 cruise ships annually, bringing over 3.5 million passengers, Santiago remains untouched by such maritime traffic. The closest cruise ships to Santiago de Compostela (SdC) dock at La Coruña, a distance of 47 miles away.

However, a global shift in mindset has occurred, emphasizing personal entitlement and satisfaction. The inconvenience caused by tourism, often seen as an “assault” on local culture, is now met with less tolerance. For me, this serves as a reminder: wherever I travel, I am a guest, and my behavior should remain respectful and considerate.

I have a tech project manager friend (born in Ponferrada) who lives and works in Barcelona and she often complains about over tourism and bnb (back in 2008) - wealthier locals and outsiders buy up cheaper housing and turn into short-term rentals which results in lack of affordable housing for low to middle income natives. I can see the problem amplified when I travel south from Barcelona to Cadiz...so many high rise condos for 100s of kilometers along the coast. In conversations, I hear from expats that we provide income to the locals (housekeeping, construction etc) but that is one side of the coin. And this will take the discussion down the rat hole. As @MichaelB10398 so eloquently stated "wherever I travel, I am a guest, and my behavior should remain respectful and considerate."

 

[donalomahony]

The problem is not the consequences for the visitors but the problems for the inhabitants of the cities that receive many visitors(the sparce houses that are rented to tourists via Air B&B, the crowds and so on)

%

 

[Tincatinker]

Tom, tourism never was a major part of Barca’s economy. It was an adjunct. The city is a major manufacturing centre, a financial centre and a port. The cruise ships bring very little benefit: passengers eat on board and save most of their drinking for on board too. Their money goes to the cruise companies not the city of Barcelona. Other visitors are still spending their money with package tour companies and extra-national owned hotel chains. Sadly, its the independent travellers who do spend money in the bars, restaurants and other attractions that are also responsible for soaking up so much of the local accommodations that even those who do work in the hospitality industry find themselves with a two hour commute to get to work.

I love Barca. I’ve been visiting since the 1970’s but not in the last decade. I remember when the chief of police was asked what he was going to do about the increase in violent robberies particularly affecting passengers from the cruise ships. He said “ban the cruise ships”. Sadly no one took him seriously

 

[Camino Joe 2021]

I wonder if that Eagles song applies here?

Yep in many places around our world,
"You call someplace paradise
Kiss it goodbye,"

 

[Tincatinker]

Joni Mitchell had it fairly covered “they pave Paradise, put up a parking lot”, though I was always fond of the rhyme in “they took all the trees put’em in a tree museum, and they charged all the people a dollar and a half just to see’em”.

The fact remains we are not stuck in traffic, we are traffic

 

[Bob P]

After my Camino this year, I went on cruise to Alaska. The town of Skagway goes from a population of 940 to population 14,000 when 4 cruise ships roll in. I know an active local resident and they are trying to do something to limit/stop 4 ship days. Their utilities can't handle the massive influx. The streets are literally full of people because all the businesses are overflowing with tourists.

But, they're also very aware how important that tourism is to their economy. I don't think Barcelona could even relate to that much overload.

 

[Charles Ross]

Right now it costs about $24 to spend 7 nights in Barcelona; a hotel/BnB/AirBnB tax of about $3.50 per night. It is simply not an amount that will discourage tourism. The solution is a drastic increase in that tax that is calibrated for the type of room provided; a higher nightly tax for a luxury hotel, a lower tax for a hostel, shared room. Do you want to slow down tourism in Barcelona? You might need a high end tax of $50 per night and low end, perhaps $10 per night. Do you want to tamp down the anger of Barcelona locals? Use the tax to subsidize free transit and make sure locals know where funding is coming from! I grew up in San Francisco in the 50's and 60's, a working class town back then, so I certainly understand the cost/benefit of tourism.

 

[William Garza]

Joni Mitchell had it fairly covered “they pave Paradise, put up a parking lot”, though I was always fond of the rhyme in “they took all the trees put’em in a tree museum, and they charged all the people a dollar and a half just to see’em”.

The fact remains we are not stuck in traffic, we are traffic

That was the other song!

 

[Marbe2]

The problem is not the consequences for the visitors but the problems for the inhabitants of the cities that receive many visitors(the sparce houses that are rented to tourists via Air B&B, the crowds and so on)

Yes! It was not my intention to focus on the root causes……that may be your focus. There is a reality to the massive overload of tourists in cities, such as Barcelona, venice, Florence, CinqueTerra, SdC. I can’t change what apartment owners decide in Barcelona, nor can I control what interventions cities put in place. However, by traveling at off times, we can alleviate some of the congestion, however small our footprint might be. The offseason choices would benefit these cities, but also us with cheaper prices, shorter lines, availability in accommodations. Many of us on this website are retired and could be flexible when we travel.

 

[Tincatinker]

I wrote this a while ago https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...dation-than-youll-ever-need.71997/post-967211. nothing has changed

 

[Tincatinker]

Do you want to tamp down the anger of Barcelona locals?

Nah, I'd rather fire them up till we reach the point where the administrations actually extract their heads from their (sunshine free areas) and do something. A Tourist Tax of €10 or even €100 will not change any of it and will never benefit the young couple sharing an apartment with mom, dad and grandma. Even if every cent was spent on social housing and free transport. Barca have said they'll not renew any "temporary accommodation licences" when they expire. Apparently that'll take at least 5 years. I'm not sure why everything takes 5 years. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the election cycle.

And none of this has anything to do with Camino, or rather the pilgrimage to Santiago along the camino ways but we should note the protests in Galicia last year where the people who actually live there all the time expressed their discontent at yet another multi-million allocation of their €'s to making the camino routes smoother, better sign-posted and globally advertised. What they'd rather like is schools, health centres and sheltered housing for grandma so they can go to work and try and make their lives a little better.

I'm planning my swan song camino: I'm planning to wear a slogan t-shirt.

"Lo siento,
no volveré a hacer esto!"​

 

[Saint Mike II]

I would be hesitant about visiting Barcelona or Venice, particularly by cruise ship. This April, the locals in the beautiful port of Kuşadası, Türkiye, seemed very happy to receive the tourists from our Viking liner to their town because it was early in the season.

But yes, I am hesitant about visiting Barcelona at all.

Just back from Venice and the cruise ships are now docking at a port about 15/20 km south of Venice. But the city has introduced a new tourist tax, E25 per day, unless you are staying in a hotel. Not been to Barcelona for 50 years, not intending to return.

 

[SBurgess]

Nah, I'd rather fire them up till we reach the point where the administrations actually extract their heads from their (sunshine free areas) and do something. A Tourist Tax of €10 or even €100 will not change any of it and will never benefit the young couple sharing an apartment with mom, dad and grandma. Even if every cent was spent on social housing and free transport. Barca have said they'll not renew any "temporary accommodation licences" when they expire. Apparently that'll take at least 5 years. I'm not sure why everything takes 5 years. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the election cycle.

And none of this has anything to do with Camino, or rather the pilgrimage to Santiago along the camino ways but we should note the protests in Galicia last year where the people who actually live there all the time expressed their discontent at yet another multi-million allocation of their €'s to making the camino routes smoother, better sign-posted and globally advertised. What they'd rather like is schools, health centres and sheltered housing for grandma so they can go to work and try and make their lives a little better.

I'm planning my swan song camino: I'm planning to wear a slogan t-shirt.

"Lo siento,
no volveré a hacer esto!"​

I have been to Santiago but once--for about 10 days--and after my camino. After walking throughout the greater Santiago area I could see why there was discontent in how their Euros were being spent.
My question was, and is, how much sway does the Church have in these decisions?
And Tincatinker...I like your t-shirt

 

[Philtration]

Low and middle income housing is a problem in desirable tourist destinations everywhere. My sympathies lie with local people who are being priced out of their communities. Some interesting and more effective approaches to addressing the problem include banning short-term residential rentals, and requiring landlords to actually live in the B&B they are renting rooms from.

 

[C clearly]

If the tourists leave, as has happened in a few places following silly protests like this, the local economy will take a big hit.

I am curious what are some of those places you refer to, where tourists have left after protests.

Hope this helps the dialog,

I don't think that calling them "silly protests" helps the dialog at all!

Too much of a good thing is frequently not a good thing.

Exactly. That is the issue, and the reason behind the protests - some people think there are too many tourists!

 

[Lexicos]

Short answer: highly unlikely. Barcelona is up there with Venice regarding saturation point from tourism. Tourists is one thing, pilgrims is another. Santiago has been welcoming pilgrims for decades. Barcelona gets “mass tourism,” a big difference.

 

[SBurgess]

This was a Google cursory search for cruise ships offering excursions to Santiago. Princess Cruises are not alone in this. There are Pilgrims to Santiago and then there are tourists--cruise ship passengers on excursions are tourists, they are not Pilgrims!!
My original post was to start a conversation without a personal opinion. This is my opinion. The residents of the greater Santiago area have most certainly taken notice of the protests in Barcelona. Will they follow Barcelona?

Excursions - Princess Cruises

 

[Bradypus]

There are Pilgrims to Santiago and then there are tourists--cruise ship passengers on excursions are tourists, they are not Pilgrims!!

My own opinion is that a cruise ship passenger on an excursion to Santiago can be a pilgrim though I have no way of judging which of them might be.

 

[Kathor1]

Actually, when you read about issues in connection with the number of visitors in Santiago, you see that they distinguish between tourists and excursionists and sometimes also between tourists, pilgrims and excursionists.

This has nothing to do with the visitors’ inner attitude but with how long they stay, how much they spend, where they spend their time and what their profile is (travelling single, as a couple, with a group of friends, level of education, socio-economic status etc). Tourists are visitors who spend one night or more nights in Santiago, excursionists are only for several hours in town.

According to one study, excursionists typically spend 5 hours in Santiago, pilgrims stay typically for 1,5 days and other tourists stay longer and spend more.

 

[henrythedog]

Short answer: highly unlikely. Barcelona is up there with Venice regarding saturation point from tourism. Tourists is one thing, pilgrims is another. Santiago has been welcoming pilgrims for decades. Barcelona gets “mass tourism,” a big difference.

I disagree. There is no practical difference between a tourist and a pilgrim other than in the mind of the individual.

Pilgrims on average probably spend much less per night than tourists.

As for the prevailing attitude in Santiago, it’s far from universally welcoming. Viz this from about three years ago:

 

[falcon269]

The world is changing, and so must I. I try to stay flexible and bend with the wind..
..

Looking for rationality in gut reactions is futile. This too will pass. You are right; just abide.

 

[SBurgess]

Looking for rationality in gut reactions is futile. This too will pass. You are right; just abide.

This is an enlightened comment from someone who does not live in the problem area.

My original post was a simple question about the effects of over-tourism in the greater Santiago area. It was not intended to be political.

For the residents of Santiago, over-tourism is not a gut reaction.

Do you expect them to just abide?

 

[Tincatinker]

In my recall the protests in Santiago and wider Galicia were about the Xunta’s further allocation of funds to Turismo Galicia announced simultaneously to a cut in the education budget.

But unless you live there the available view is provided solely by the monkey and never by the axe grinder.

 

[henrythedog]

Looking for rationality in gut reactions is futile. This too will pass. You are right; just abide.

I’ve got the emotional intelligence of yeast, but even to me that seems to be a self-centred approach to what is undeniably a significant issue for the residents of the areas we all pass through.

 

[vkimble]

I wonder if those mounting these protests know how many local jobs are directly or indirectly the result of tourism. If the tourists leave, as has happened in a few places following silly protests like this, the local economy will take a big hit. Getting the jobs and the tourists that spawn them, back, is not an easy thing to do. Biting the proverbial "hand that feeds you" is not the way to go.

If local governments levy tourist taxes, and then, local folks cause tourists to leave, the local government will suffer the loss. Reductions in local services could result.

This is a case, where things must be done in moderation. Too much of a good thing is frequently not a good thing. Right now, with the peak tourist season approaching across Europe, we may see more of this.

It is my hope that cooler head prevail at major attractions, such as Santiago de Compostela. What is occurring at Barcelona is a shame. But they cannot have it both ways. If tourism is a main part of the local economy, then they must find ways to live with it - as a cost of living there. OTOH, if the city can live without tourism expenditures, then, by all means, resist tourism. But do not complain when your local economy craters.

Hope this helps the dialog,

Tom

Residents are suffering from MASS tourism. Their local culture, flavor and ease of mobility, increased rents are all negatively impacted. But the controls should go to the local governments to represent the will of their voters and not the will of their pockets at the expense of their constituents. And we as visitors need to be mindful of our behavior and respect their customs.
I've seen pilgrims on the Camino film blessing in church, film Mass to post sacred rituals of the church on social media. This is one example of why tourists are not always well received.

 

[Dani7]

As a traveler/pilgrim in Spain (or France or other country) the only control I have is how I conduct myself while walking. To respect their customs, values and traditions and to respect all those I cross paths with. I cannot change anything else. If these types of protests do start happening in Santiago, (time will tell), I know this community of pilgrims (in this forum) will not be the cause of their angst.

 

[emmanuel]

Pilgrims are not tourists, and Santiago is not Barcelona. Pilgrims have been walking to Santiago for more than a thousand years, and they will continue to do so. Few Santiago residents were born there, and many are new arrivals, drawn by the tourist economy. Pilgrims will only crowd a limited area around the Cathedral. The rest of the city is pilgrim-free. What is becoming a problem are tourists arriving by the busload, as in other affected cities, and hiring airbnb's.

 

[Walkerooni]

I wonder if that Eagles song applies here?

One of my favourite songs ever! The Last Resort.

 

[peregrina2000]

Pilgrims are not tourists, and Santiago is not Barcelona. Pilgrims have been walking to Santiago for more than a thousand years, and they will continue to do so. Few Santiago residents were born there, and many are new arrivals, drawn by the tourist economy. Pilgrims will only crowd a limited area around the Cathedral. The rest of the city is pilgrim-free. What is becoming a problem are tourists arriving by the busload, as in other affected cities, and hiring airbnb's.

Many Santiago residents strenuously disagree with that opinion. We’ve had many discussions of this in the past, complete with pictures of half-naked pilgrims picnicing on Obradoiro — see one such discussion here. I’m not suggesting that all pilgrims cause all or most of the problems, but there is a lot of local sentiment expressed against a wide range of bad pilgrim behavior.

 

[SBurgess]

And...once again, I hope I have properly downloaded the attached article: In A Holy City Clogged By Tourism, Locals Say 'Enough is Enough.' This was published by Fodor's Travel last October 2023.

The negative effects of both tourists and pilgrims are spoken about. For those of you who see no problem with pilgrims, I suggest you read the article carefully.

There is most definitely a problem with "turigrinos". So I ask again: Will the protest in Barcelona move to Santiage?

https://www.fodors.com/world/europe/spain/galicia-and-asturias/places/santiago-de-compostela/experiences/news/santiago-spain-has-had-just-about-enough-of-its-tourists

 

[peregrina2000]

Looks like Málaga had the idea before Barcelona, though I didn’t read that anyone in Málaga was squirting water pistols at tourists.

Thousands of Spaniards to descend on Málaga to protest against mass tourism

Demonstrators from popular destinations such as Granada and Seville to join protest amid anger at lack of housing

www.theguardian.com

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/10/world/europe/barcelona-tourism-squirt-guns.html?unlocked_article_code=1.6U0.Hl8T.H9TRZLlwsAHq&smid=url-share

 

[emmanuel]

Many Santiago residents strenuously disagree with that opinion. We’ve had many discussions of this in the past, complete with pictures of half-naked pilgrims picnicing on Obradoiro — see one such discussion here. I’m not suggesting that all pilgrims cause all or most of the problems, but there is a lot of local sentiment expressed against a wide range of bad pilgrim behavior.

You are right, some pilgrim's questionable manners hurt us all. Maybe a few signs in Obradoiro warning against picnics and nudity will help a lot.

 

[Weeblair1967]

Tom, . was a major part of Barca’s economy. It was an adjunct. The city is a major manufacturing centre, a financial centre and a port. The cruise ships bring very little benefit: passengers eat on board and save most of their drinking for on board too. Their money goes to the cruise companies not the city of Barcelona. Other visitors are still spending their money with package tour companies and extra-national owned hotel chains. Sadly, its the independent travellers who do spend money in the bars, restaurants and other attractions that are also responsible for soaking up so much of the local accommodations that even those who do work in the hospitality industry find themselves with a two hour commute to get to work.

I love Barca. I’ve been visiting since the 1970’s but not in the last decade. I remember when the chief of police was asked what he was going to do about the increase in violent robberies particularly affecting passengers from the cruise ships. He said “ban the cruise ships”. Sadly no one took him seriously

Rubbish! It's more politically motivated. It's impossible to regulate tourism when the central government are trying to balance the books. If you're going to make ridiculous statements about banning certain sectors of tourism...read about the financial gains. Or become less egotistical and stop flying, so much! Saving the planet! @Ebut

 

[Stephan the Painter]

So many things have happened to put us in this pickle. Firstly cheaper airfares. The rise of Airbnb and similar constructs. Instagram and similar apps that spread the word.

But I'm pretty sure the overwhelming number of tourists (and pilgrims), even in Barcelona, are respectful and tidy. But the bottom one percent make it miserable for everyone.

If they put more controls on what can be a short-term rental, that would help a lot. Limit cruise ships. But It also seems a little unfair to change the rules of the game halfway through it.

The only way to get rid of tourists is to make it too expensive for them to come. A recession would help also!But expensive just gets rid of the budget tourists. And just because I'm walking a Camino, I don't expect any special consideration from anyone. In the end, (sorry to say)we are all just tourists to the locals.

If you want to stop being part of the problem but continue to travel, choose second cities and small towns. They seem much happier to see me!

 

[William Garza]

You are right, some pilgrim's questionable manners hurt us all. Maybe a few signs in Obradoiro warning against picnics and nudity will help a lot.

My myopic take follows along these sentiments.

One persons actions can become representative of every person of that types Ilk.
Profiling,stereotyping..whatever name dujour.

One persons questionable manners as so aptly mentioned can,will,does leave a bad taste propogated and promulgated in current media intensive society.
Popular culture will spread the idea like wildfire and soon enough no one wants xyz visitors.
Add fuel with popular culture figures and their influence and the undercurrent becomes an undertow.
The people have the autonomy to decide their fate..good or bad.. and outsiders need to let the people themselves decide their fate.
I wish the best for the Spanish and an attempt at saving their culture.

 

[SBurgess]

Rubbish! It's more politically motivated. It's impossible to regulate tourism when the central government are trying to balance the books. If you're going to make ridiculous statements about banning certain sectors of tourism...read about the financial gains. Or become less egotistical and stop flying, so much! Saving the planet! @Ebut

Weeblair1967, I thought I had asked a simple question with my original post. I knew if this thread were to have more than a few comments there would be disagreements--and there have been. But the comments have been respectful, as they should be in this forum.
There is no reason for you to have commented so angrily and disrespectfully towards Tincatinker.

 

[Luka]

Overtourism is a problem that occurs in quite a few places in Spain and Europe. I have lived in Amsterdam for 25 years and at some point started to avoid the center, like all my friends did. Housing is not the only problem, it is also the loss of normal shops like groceries and bakeries, of social networks. Life just disappears.

I try to put my grain of sand by avoiding cities and places that suffer from overtourism.

 

[Kathor1]

I don't live in Santiago de Compostela and I don't think that we had a comment from a citizen of Santiago in the thread. All I can go by are news articles. I prefer to read local and regional news. There appears to be a disagreement between the administration of Santiago ("ayuntamiento") and the administration of Galicia ("gobierno" or "xunta") as to whether there is "overtourism" or "masificacíon" and if so, how to deal with it. There are complaints from a neighbourhood association about the noise that groups of pilgrims make when they enter the town of Santiago from the direction of the Camino Francés. It was particularly bad last summer in August 2023 in the context of the World Youth Day event (which lasted more than one day). These are large groups and they enter with "timpani and trumpets" and loud group singing, clapping, and chanting.

Below is a link to a very recent news article about the current Santiago tourist tax saga: No decision has been taken yet as to whether to introduce a tourist tax or not, and the Government of Galicia insists that there are no serious problems with tourist overcrowding in Santiago de Compostela:

La Xunta de Galicia insiste en que no hay “ningún grave problema de masificación turística” en Santiago de Compostela

El Gobierno gallego menosprecia la propuesta del ayuntamiento de la ciudad para una tasa turística de entre uno y 2,5 euros por noche

www.eldiario.es

I don't get the impression that the situation in Barcelona - let alone Venice - is comparable to the situation in Santiago de Compostela. BTW, as to cruise ships and their excursionists. Again, is Santiago even comparable to Venice in a meaningful way? How many cruise ships dock in Vigo and Coruña, compared to Venice, and do their passengers flood Santiago in the way they do in Venice?

 

[markie6]

I'd have dodged the obvious arguments that have and will occur in all these threads but

Santiago isn't the same size as Barcelona or Venice.. or places where we might live but....

Pro rata it might well have problems of a similar nature and the locals might start suffering in a similar manner

however you want to label those who come to these cities or places, they are all customers first and foremost but the benefits of that should help out the locals and their issues too

Protests have already come to Santiago anyway & perhaps packing lists in the future will have to include water pistols so the poor pilgrims can defend themselves ( this part is in jest before panties get bunched )

 

[David Tallan]

Santiago has been welcoming pilgrims for decades.

I think you are off by several factors of ten.

 

[David Tallan]

Pilgrims are not tourists, and Santiago is not Barcelona. Pilgrims have been walking to Santiago for more than a thousand years, and they will continue to do so. Few Santiago residents were born there, and many are new arrivals, drawn by the tourist economy. Pilgrims will only crowd a limited area around the Cathedral. The rest of the city is pilgrim-free. What is becoming a problem are tourists arriving by the busload, as in other affected cities, and hiring airbnb's.

I'm not sure that the picture that, until recently most of the visitors to Santiago were foot pilgrims and the number of visitors flying in or busing in was limited holds up to much scrutiny. If anything, foot pilgrims are a much, much higher percentage of visitors now than they were last century.

 

[SBurgess]

Well, my friends, this thread may not have answered my initial question on the effects of tourism/pilgrims on Santiago, but it certainly has initiated interesting comments.
Like Kathar1na, I prefer to read local news. This type of news usually reflects a truer view of local perspectives on local issues. Unfortunately, I have been unable to find any English-language news sites for Santiago.
So... here is another view of Pilgrims and their effect on the Camino. Much to my dismay, it exposes some ugly Americans.

Conflicting Times on the Camino de Santiago

As increasing numbers of pilgrims walk the Camino de Santiago in Europe, local communities feel the pressure to keep up.

www.sapiens.org

 

[VNwalking]

Very nicely written article. Thanks @SBurgess .

Much to my dismay, it exposes some ugly Americans

Those attitudes are by no means limited to Americans. Selfish entitlement is not uncommon on the Camino, and people who are afflicted with it generally have no idea how obnoxious their behavior is. If they knew they'd probably be quite different - but it's very hard to see the lenses through with we see the world and each other.

That's single people. In groups there's a herd mentality that can totally erase any normal restraint on making noise or disruptive behavior. I pity the people who live next to busy Caminos and can well understand the annoyance.

 

[SBurgess]

OK, as an addendum to my attachment, "Conflicting Times on the Camino De Santiago," at #55 above, I thought I would research The Ashram mentioned (in a somewhat negative light) in the attachment. (I had never heard of it).
I did so because the Santa Monica Mountains in Los Angeles County (US)--is not far from where I live.
I suggest you read about who they are and the services they offer.

Then scroll down to Seasonal Retreats and then Camino-September. Here, they offer 7 days/8 nights Caminos to either the Camino Norte or Camino Portuguese--this next September.

After reviewing their prices and daily schedule (while on the Camino), it is easy to see why the above attachment, "Conflicting Times on the Camino De Santiago," refers to them as "elitist wellness seekers."

I'm guessing that 99% of the average Camino Pilgram is not in a position to pay the cost of this type of "retreat."

Buen Camino all!!

The Ashram | Spa Retreat Resort | Calabasas California | Lodging

Weeklong retreats, health, fitness renewal in the foothills Santa Monica mountains near Malibu California. Boot camp for the stars. Yoga, hiking, meditation.

www.theashram.com

 

[VNwalking]

I suggest you read about who they are and the services they offer.

Funny. They offer a "non-religious pilgrimage" in Japan while neglecting to mention (in the quick summary) that the camino in Spain is a pilgrimage at all.

Journeys for people who want an exclusive experience, and who think that all their money can buy lasting happiness and enlightenment (whatever they imagine that is). Rather sad.

 

[Kathor1]

I'm guessing that 99% of the average Camino Pilgram is not in a position to pay the cost of this type of "retreat."

But do such groups of visitors have much to do with any overcrowding in Santiago? Surely not.

 

[Kathor1]

I finally had a look at an article in the UK press about the recent protest in Barcelona. Previously I had only seen the photos and headlines about the water pistols. The issue is the housing crisis, i.e. the high rents for locals and the high prices for buying an apartment for locals. Fuelled by AirBnB and similar developments. Which is of course not only the tourists’ fault. In one of the articles in the Galician press about “turistas” in Santiago, a house owner is quoted as saying that if he can’t rent to tourists in future because the city administration will prohibit it he will consider selling his property because renting it to students will not produce enough income. Santiago is a major university town and apparently also a centre for all sorts of international congresses and similar events.

Also, one of the linked articles in this thread mentions gentrification. But is gentrification a result of overtourism? I don’t think so. It happens when financially more affluent locals move into parts of a town where less affluent locals have lived all their lives and get forced out because they can no longer afford the rent. It has to do with inequality and not tourism.

 

[Kathor1]

inally had a look at an article in the UK press about the recent protest in Barcelona. Previously I had only seen the photos and headlines about the water pistols. The issue is the housing crisis, i.e. the high rents for locals and the high prices for buying an apartment for locals. Fuelled by AirBnB and similar developments.

Now the thread is getting interesting . In an earlier comment, a poster said that s/he had been unable to find any English-language news sites for Santiago. This cannot be said for Barcelona. There are not only news articles and news sites in English, especially for the British expats communities along the costas, there is also content by the Barcelona city administration themselves in English about the "gentrification challenges" including aspects of the effects of overtourism and touristic pressure. Perhaps, when asking whether protest against tourists in Barcelona will come to Santiago one should aspire to be informed in more depth about the issues of Barcelona first and then try to see to what extent their issues apply to the situation of Santiago?

Below is the link to the Ajuntament de Barcelona's website and the relevant content in English. Happy reading!

The gentrification challenges | Monografics | Barcelona Metròpolis

And in particular: https://www.barcelona.cat/bcnmetropolis/2007-2017/en/dossier/la-disputa-per-la-ciutat-turistica/. The article is in English despite its title in Catalan.

 

[Bradypus]

Like Kathar1na, I prefer to read local news. This type of news usually reflects a truer view of local perspectives on local issues. Unfortunately, I have been unable to find any English-language news sites for Santiago.

Both Google Chrome and Microsoft Edge browsers have automatic translation tools built in which do an excellent job in giving a reasonable English version from text in Spanish or Galego. Not always perfect but usually clear enough. No need to confine your reading solely to material published in English.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Both Google Chrome and Microsoft Edge browsers have automatic translation tools built in which do an excellent job in giving a reasonable English version from text in Spanish or Galego. Not always perfect but usually clear enough. No need to confine your reading solely to material published in English.

Agreed, but I have to say I personally find it much harder to find relevant articles when I search. It's a little bit like researching in German for me - some things just do not translate well, and whilst my spoken German is moderately good my written is terrible. Which leads to far less relevant results.
When I try to search in Spanish it's worse still because my Spanish is limited to just a few words of greeting and Camino specific phrases.

 

[Bradypus]

Agreed, but I have to say I personally find it much harder to find relevant articles when I search.

Most of my searching tends to be fairly specifically related to the Caminos and pilgrimage so I routinely use a small number of key words. But I also go directly to the homepages of the two main Santiago based newspapers and see them in translation. From there it is usually pretty easy to follow links to relevant articles which are also translated almost instantly.

 

[Luka]

I finally had a look at an article in the UK press about the recent protest in Barcelona. Previously I had only seen the photos and headlines about the water pistols. The issue is the housing crisis, i.e. the high rents for locals and the high prices for buying an apartment for locals. Fuelled by AirBnB and similar developments. Which is of course not only the tourists’ fault. In one of the articles in the Galician press about “turistas” in Santiago, a house owner is quoted as saying that if he can’t rent to tourists in future because the city administration will prohibit it he will consider selling his property because renting it to students will not produce enough income. Santiago is a major university town and apparently also a centre for all sorts of international congresses and similar events.

Also, one of the linked articles in this thread mentions gentrification. But is gentrification a result of overtourism? I don’t think so. It happens when financially more affluent locals move into parts of a town where less affluent locals have lived all their lives and get forced out because they can no longer afford the rent. It has to do with inequality and not tourism.

I disagree with you. It is a spiraling combination of things. I can take my hometown Amsterdam as an example. When Amsterdam became more popular at the end of last century, it started to attract more people from abroad. Tourists as well as expats. So more hotels were built, more money was spent, investors started to buy and renovate old buildings, Airbnb was founded, expats paid a higher rent than locals, tourist appartment had higher revenues than appartments for locals, more home owners put their houses on Airbnb, more investors bought houses, the rent got higher, the city attracted more people with higher income, more fancy restaurants opened, more tourists came, and so on and on. It goes hand in hand and tourism is definitely part of it.

And it is more than housing. The city center has lost it's soul. It has changed into an amusement park. The shops, bars, restaurants cater for tourists. As apartment blocks are taken over by expats and Airbnb, there is no one left to care about the neighbourhood. Noise at night of drunken tourists, of loud music from bars. Not only in the weekends, for tourists every day of the week is a holiday. The smell of urine on the porch when you leave for work in the morning. That is overtourism.

 

[Luka]

And to stay a bit closer to the Camino, the same is starting to happen in Asturias. It has gotten very hard to find houses or apartments for rent, also in the countryside. Rental contracts go from September till June. In July and August the houses and apartments are reserved for tourists.

But it is good for the local economy, isn't it? To some extent yes, of course. But on the flip side of the coin, there is only lots of work in the summer season, in winter unemployment rises again. In summer it is now becoming harder and harder to find staff. Here in Asturias restaurants have already closed down because of lack of employees. One of the reasons must be that it has become almost impossible for waiters and kitchen staff to find a place to live in summer.

 

[VeganCamino]

This is a 7-minute video about residents of Barcelona protesting against over-tourism. It also comments on protests in other parts of the world. It also comments on the economic benefits for the tourist industry as well as the economic suffering of the residents.
The video is from YouTube. There are numerous articles from around the world about these protests.

tourist protest in barcelina - Google Search

I was in Spain for two months in 2019. In Girona I saw only a few tourists, but there was a giant banner hung across the center of town that in English only said they wanted tourists to leave because they were taking all the housing. In Santiago after a month of walking in the summer heat there was graffiti in multiple places, again only in English, that said "tourists go home". It was really deflating. Pilgrims have come there for a century.

I hope Spain comes up with a way to manage tourist numbers BEFORE people arrive and spend thousands of dollars there. It was really a hard on my heart part of the trip.

I went to Portugal for a month after the Camino and the first morning I went looking for a coffee and there was a big graffiti sign outside that said, "welcome tourists". I almost cried.

 

[Lisakline]

This is a 7-minute video about residents of Barcelona protesting against over-tourism. It also comments on protests in other parts of the world. It also comments on the economic benefits for the tourist industry as well as the economic suffering of the residents.
The video is from YouTube. There are numerous articles from around the world about these protests.

tourist protest in barcelina - Google Search

I saw "Tourists go home" grafitti in Santiago. It made me think, and listen. I've completed 4 caminos, that's enough, I will find other places to walk that are not overrun and getting spoilt by tourism.

 

[alexwalker]

We have the same problem in my hometown in Arctic Norway: It has become "the capitol" of Northern lights etc. in winter, and midnight sun etc. in the summer. We already have extensive direct flights from all over Europe, and next Nov., 30 more international flights will fly directly to here. Several days/week. It is becoming crazy.

In addition, flights from USA via Reykjavik are planned. Already, it is rare to hear Norw. spoken in the streets, and there is a constant noise from rolling suitcases everywhere,

A major contribution is all the offerings from AirBnB owners. This in turn leads to fewer apartments available for our own citizents. People, especially young, are beginning to move to other places: It is becoming impossible to get a place to stay for our locals.. Our touristic success is killing the town soon.

I recently read that Barcelona, a big city with 5.712.000 citizens, has some 10.000 AirBnB offerings. My town, with only 80.000 people, has 1.500 apartments for shorttime rental on that platform... We are in much deeper sh*t than Barcelona...

There is only one solution: Heavy taxation of secondary apartments/houses: One should only need one place to live in the same city.

My sympathy is 100% with the protesters in Barcelona. I may even get myself a water gun soon...

Home | Visit Tromso | Norway

Visit Tromso is the offical tourist information in Tromso, Northern Norway. Find all you need to know about northern lights, midnight sun and much more.

www.visittromso.no

Edit: Ahh, yes: We also have daily arrivals of 1-3 big tourist ships each day, leaving little/no money, but plenty of pollution and city weardown every day.

 

[KevinWilcox]

I think this is a symptom of globalisation, a generational shift in expectations (entitlement), greater wealth, and so on: so yes, I think it will impact on Santiago along with every other place on the planet that gets heavy visitor traffic. This is because, across the globe, people have figured out how to maximise their income from this business, the downsides don’t impact them and there is no incentive to rein it in. Twice in the last week, in casual conversation with friends, people have mentioned tourist businesses with owners who don’t even live in that country. I suspect this is becoming ever more common.

 

[Getwood]

I must admit, reading messages like these in the forums has truly dampened my enthusiasm for walking the Camino Frances, to the point where I'm re-considering going at all. I still have a little over a month to cancel my plans before the financial penalties become painful, but it might actually be the best course of action.

 

[VNwalking]

reading messages like these in the forums has truly dampened my enthusiasm for walking the Camino Frances

Not to be discouraged @Getwood. It's not an issue along most of the CF. And my experience in Santiago has always been positive. The negative impact of too many people is not concentrated in one place along the way. So if you make a point of not staying in the bigger guide book stage-ending towns, you'll find the kind of welcome that isn't jaded by exhaustion or overcrowding.

A major contribution is all the offerings from AirBnB owners. This in turn leads to fewer apartments available for our own citizents. People, especially young, are beginning to move to other places

across the globe, people have figured out how to maximise their income from this business, the downsides don’t impact them and there is no incentive to rein it in.

Greed on the part of property owners hurts everyone else. I make a point of not using AirBnB. Why support a phenomenon that hurts locals?

 

[peregrina2000]

I recently read that Barcelona, a big city with 5.712.000 citizens, has some 10.000 AriBnB offerings. My town, with only 80.000 people, has 1.500 apartments for shorttime rental on that platform... We are in much deeper sh*t than Barcelona...

Barcelona is going to ban all short term rentals, Airbnb is the primary but not only one. Effective in 5 years, 2029.

Existing licenses will not be renewed and new licenses will not be issued, so that by 2029 there will be none left.

Alexwalker, maybe some ground roots action will have some effect.

 

[alexwalker]

Barcelona is going to ban all short term rentals, Airbnb is the primary but not only one. Effective in 5 years, 2029.

Existing licenses will not be renewed and new licenses will not be issued, so that by 2029 there will be none left.

Alexwalker, maybe some ground roots action will have some effect.

Yes, this has to stop. It is killing cities, like my own.

 

[mikerw1]

No probs il spend my money in Bulgaria gree e turkey

 

[SBurgess]

Not to be discouraged @Getwood. It's not an issue along most of the CF. And my experience in Santiago has always been positive. The negative impact of too many people is not concentrated in one place along the way. So if you make a point of not staying in the bigger guide book stage-ending towns, you'll find the kind of welcome that isn't jaded by exhaustion or overcrowding.



Greed on the part of property owners hurts everyone else. I make a point of not using AirBnB. Why support a phenomenon that hurts locals?

@Getwood, I agree with @VNwalking, do not be discouraged.
Stay away from all Airbnb's and hotels. Stop a mile/km before or after the suggested stop in the guidebooks.
You will be surprised how much you enjoy the smaller Gite's/Hostels--and the families that run them.

 

[VNwalking]

@Getwood, I agree with @VNwalking, do not be discouraged.
Stay away from all Airbnb's and hotels. Stop a mile/km before or after the suggested stop in the guidebooks.
You will be surprised how much you enjoy the smaller Gite's/Hostels--and the families that run them.

Small family-run places are always a joy, both private albergues and hostels/pensions.

Alexwalker, maybe some ground roots action will have some effect.

Get your friends together, Alex. Start a protest or petition - or something. Community organization works, and it's very satisfying not to simply be a passive victim of something that isn't inevitable.

 

[Getwood]

@Getwood, I agree with @VNwalking, do not be discouraged.
Stay away from all Airbnb's and hotels. Stop a mile/km before or after the suggested stop in the guidebooks.
You will be surprised how much you enjoy the smaller Gite's/Hostels--and the families that run them.

Meh, I've got a couple of hotels in the mix, mostly due to lack of available space elsewhere. A smattering of albergues, pensions and hostals/hostels, and around a third of my journey is off-stage anyways, again due to lack of accommodations at the suggested stage-ends. Will make for some long days (I walk from SJPdP to Burguete [28.4km] as well as Burgos to Hontanas [31.1km], as just two examples). I'm trying to stay away from group accomms for two reasons: I snore, sometimes quite badly, and as I've aged, my bathroom habits at night are bound to disrupt others' sleep. I'm saving people's sanity here!

I'm also walking alone, and I've had previous experiences of solo travel where I've been targeted as "easy pickings" by the less-savoury of the locals. Seeing those tourists getting water-pistoled may seem innocuous enough, but I've seen similar situations spiral out of control surprisingly quickly, and now my radar's up and pinging.

 

[VNwalking]

I've seen similar situations spiral out of control surprisingly quickly, and now my radar's up and pinging.

That's an understandable reaction, based on previous experience. But in thousands of kms on various caminos, often alone, I've never once been "targeted as "easy pickings" by the less-savoury of the locals," or witnessed anything remotely out of control. Quite the opposite. In your shoes I'd be holding those conditioned responses lightly, and just go and see for myself.

 

[Karl Oz]

Tom, tourism never was a major part of Barca’s economy. It was an adjunct. The city is a major manufacturing centre, a financial centre and a port. The cruise ships bring very little benefit: passengers eat on board and save most of their drinking for on board too. Their money goes to the cruise companies not the city of Barcelona. Other visitors are still spending their money with package tour companies and extra-national owned hotel chains. Sadly, its the independent travellers who do spend money in the bars, restaurants and other attractions that are also responsible for soaking up so much of the local accommodations that even those who do work in the hospitality industry find themselves with a two hour commute to get to work.

I love Barca. I’ve been visiting since the 1970’s but not in the last decade. I remember when the chief of police was asked what he was going to do about the increase in violent robberies particularly affecting passengers from the cruise ships. He said “ban the cruise ships”. Sadly no one took him seriously

I have to agree with this. My first visit was in the 70's and it was a pleasant and flourishing city without it's present issues of tourist inundation and dispossession of locals from inner city dwellings. The tourist economy benefits specifically those working in it, but not so much other citizens.

 

[HBS60]

Not sure if this will add anything new to this discussion but here it goes. This Kiwi, married to a Spaniard woman, has an excellent You Tube channel for those interested in Spain, so this is his perspective:

 

[Kirkie]

I must admit, reading messages like these in the forums has truly dampened my enthusiasm for walking the Camino Frances, to the point where I'm re-considering going at all. I still have a little over a month to cancel my plans before the financial penalties become painful, but it might actually be the best course of action.

There are 360 degrees in a circle. So far as I recall. I left school in 1965. Imagine!
Do not be discouraged. There is a trick from my Paolo Freire days: things do not have to be the way they are. You are the motor, not the others.
The camino. What is it? For you? You are the protagonista in this story.
I admit to not having an idea of who you are, nor from where. All I wish to say now is: if your heart is calling you, listen.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

And to stay a bit closer to the Camino, the same is starting to happen in Asturias. It has gotten very hard to find houses or apartments for rent, also in the countryside. Rental contracts go from September till June. In July and August the houses and apartments are reserved for tourists.

But it is good for the local economy, isn't it? To some extent yes, of course. But on the flip side of the coin, there is only lots of work in the summer season, in winter unemployment rises again. In summer it is now becoming harder and harder to find staff. Here in Asturias restaurants have already closed down because of lack of employees. One of the reasons must be that it has become almost impossible for waiters and kitchen staff to find a place to live in summer.

This is precisely what's happening along the coast of Maine in the US where I live.

Tangentally, from 2002 to 2005 I had a very enjoyable three years living right near Oosterpark in Amsterdam. I was sad to hear from you and others how much Amsterdam had changed.

On the other hand, my Dutch ex-girlfriend, who I lived with, sold her apartment, and then was able to buy a house in Hilvershum to raise her family. But she was lucky that she purchased her apartment at the right time.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Just back from Venice and the cruise ships are now docking at a port about 15/20 km south of Venice. But the city has introduced a new tourist tax, E25 per day, unless you are staying in a hotel. Not been to Barcelona for 50 years, not intending to return.

When I searched for this on the Internet, I only found a 5 euro tourist tax per day in Venice? €25 might actually keep people away because it can add up if you go for a few days. Was that a typo or is there something I didn't find?

 

[Saint Mike II]

When I searched for this on the Internet, I only found a 5 euro tourist tax per day in Venice? €25 might actually keep people away because it can add up if you go for a few days. Was that a typo or is there something I didn't find?

Thanks for the comment, I based my report on a briefly posted message on a travel website. That may have been where the error came from. Cheers

 

[Kathor1]

When I searched for this on the Internet, I only found a 5 euro tourist tax per day in Venice? €25 might actually keep people away because it can add up if you go for a few days. Was that a typo or is there something I didn't find?

https://www.veneziaunica.it/en/content/practical-information has all the necessary information about how much you have to pay when you visit Venice, depending on when, how long and where you stay. There is the Venice Access Fee (€ 5) and the Venice Tourist Tax (maximum € 25 for a stay of 5 days or more). You have to pay the Access Fee directly yourself, the Tourist Tax is added when you pay your invoice for your accommodation as usual everywhere. As the website explains, the Venice Tourist Tax varies according to the time of year (high season from 1st February to 31st December; low season from 1st to 31st January) and the location, type and classification of the accommodation facility.

Unlike Venice, Santiago de Compostela has neither an Access Fee nor a Tourist Tax.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I visited Venice ten years ago as a two day stop on a bus tour of Italy. If there were any special taxes and fees at that time, they were absorbed by the tour company.

 

[WGroleau]

2019 May 03—signs posted in El Masnou, a suburb of Barcelona. Summary: Town council expected to vote against limiting tourist apartments; everyone please go to the meeting and get them to change their minds.
(Sorry about the sideways view. They were right side up on my computer when I saved the files.)

 

[TravellingMan22]

https://www.veneziaunica.it/en/content/practical-information has all the necessary information about how much you have to pay when you visit Venice, depending on when, how long and where you stay. There is the Venice Access Fee (€ 5) and the Venice Tourist Tax (maximum € 25 for a stay of 5 days or more). You have to pay the Access Fee directly yourself, the Tourist Tax is added when you pay your invoice for your accommodation as usual everywhere. As the website explains, the Venice Tourist Tax varies according to the time of year (high season from 1st February to 31st December; low season from 1st to 31st January) and the location, type and classification of the accommodation facility.

Unlike Venice, Santiago de Compostela has neither an Access Fee nor a Tourist Tax.

Stayed in Venice maybe 5 times in the last 5 years, including within the last year, and don’t recall paying any taxes, maybe they were absorbed somewhere . Stayed both on the ‘island’ were the tourists go, getting off the train at Santa Lucia, and across the water in the ‘main city’ by Mestre station and the cheap hostels! Not sure where the ‘border’ is. If you are in the region try and get to Verona too.

 

[Kathor1]

Stayed in Venice maybe 5 times in the last 5 years, including within the last year, and don’t recall paying any taxes, maybe they were absorbed somewhere .

Ah yes, the tourist tax. Much talked about but rarely noticed.

As mentioned on their website, the Venice tourist tax depends, among other things, on the type of your accommodation. If it was a hotel of any category, did you keep the receipt and asked for an invoice? If so, do have a look.

Many guests don't notice the tourist tax although it is usually listed explicitly on the invoice. One can see it also on websites, for example I checked Booking.com for a randomly selected hotel in Venice in August (boy, are they expensive) and I see this for the price of a room for one night and one person:


Here the Venice tourist tax is called "city tax". Switch the website to Italian and it is called "tassa di soggiorno" (stay tax). Switch it to German and it is called "Übernachtungssteuer" (staying overnight tax). It will be the same should Santiago de Compostela eventually introduce such a tax. The majority of pilgrims - those who do spend a night in the town - will not even notice its existence. And it's purpose it not to keep people away. It's purpose it to raise money for the city's treasurer.

 

[TravellingMan22]

Ah yes, the tourist tax. Much talked about but rarely noticed.

As mentioned on their website, the Venice tourist tax depends, among other things, on the type of your accommodation. If it was a hotel of any category, did you keep the receipt and asked for an invoice? If so, do have a look.

Many guests don't notice the tourist tax although it is usually listed explicitly on the invoice. One can see it also on websites, for example I checked Booking.com for a randomly selected hotel in Venice in August (boy, are they expensive) and I see this for the price of a room for one night and one person:

View attachment 174659
Here the Venice tourist tax is called "city tax". Switch the website to Italian and it is called "tassa di soggiorno" (stay tax). Switch it to German and it is called "Übernachtungssteuer" (staying overnight tax). It will be the same should Santiago de Compostela eventually introduce such a tax. The majority of pilgrims - those who do spend a night in the town - will not even notice its existence. And it's purpose it not to keep people away. It's purpose it to raise money for the city's treasurer.

No wouldn’t have got an invoice, or would have discarded immediately. The only Italian city that seems to verbally always mention the tourist tax is Rome. €2 from memory. Never seem to anywhere else.

If anyone is looking for a cheap hotel in Venice stay on the ‘mainland’ part and catch the quick train across.

 

[alexwalker]

Now also in Alicante:

Hundreds of Spanish demonstrators march through Alicante demanding holidaymakers 'leave our neighbourhoods' as wave of anti-tourist sentiment continues in the Mediterranean with protesters insisting: 'Our home is not the patio of gringos' - Surge Rad

Hundreds of protestors rallied in Alicante today against perceived ‘overtourism’ in the latest such demonstration to hit Spain – and the first major event to be staged in the city. Scores of residents met at the central Plaza Toros with banners and flags reading ‘Leave our neighbourhoods’, ‘our...

surgeradio.cl

 

[Pelegrin]

Now also in Alicante:

Hundreds of Spanish demonstrators march through Alicante demanding holidaymakers 'leave our neighbourhoods' as wave of anti-tourist sentiment continues in the Mediterranean with protesters insisting: 'Our home is not the patio of gringos' - Surge Rad

Hundreds of protestors rallied in Alicante today against perceived ‘overtourism’ in the latest such demonstration to hit Spain – and the first major event to be staged in the city. Scores of residents met at the central Plaza Toros with banners and flags reading ‘Leave our neighbourhoods’, ‘our...

surgeradio.cl

* our home is not the patio of gringos" it is not normal saying that in Spain. I read all the banners on the photos and none says that. The general term for foreign visitors from Europe or North America is " guiri".

 

[Kathor1]

* our home is not the patio of gringos" it is not normal saying that in Spain. I read all the banners on the photos and none says that. The general term for foreign visitors from Europe or North America is " guiri".

Thank you for noticing this and pointing it out, @Pelegrin. You are one of the very forum members who live in Spain and are a native of Spain and of the Galician region.

I noticed immediately that the linked article is published on a website with an url ending in .cl - that is cl for Chile. These online news articles are not wrong in themselves but they are usually written by an author who has never set foot on the location that is reported about, and the whole text is just a mishmash of other news agency reports and other online articles of the same sort. While they contain bits of facts from here and there and everywhere I don't expect to gain any major new insight from them. The reference to "she told MailOnline that organisers ..." made me feel even more wary. MailOnline, at least that is my guess, is the website of the UK tabloid Daily Mail.

 

[peregrina2000]

Scrolling through the pictures showed this one. It’s not a big deal, but the reporting is accurate.

 

[Kathor1]

No wouldn’t have got an invoice, or would have discarded immediately. The only Italian city that seems to verbally always mention the tourist tax is Rome. €2 from memory. Never seem to anywhere else.

I rarely ask for an invoice for a stay at a hotel and if I get one, in paper form or by email, I, too, throw it away or delete it.

I had an idea just now: I checked my old bookings in Booking.com. Within the last 12 months for example, as one can see, I paid a tourist tax ("city tax") of € 7.84 for one night in a hotel in Rotterdam and of € 2.88 for one night in a hotel in Paris. I remember Paris in particular because the room as such had been prepaid online and I had to pay the €2.88 separately when I checked in at reception. Is there a big deal being made about this? Of course not. Do visitors stay away in droves from Paris and from Rotterdam because of this tourist tax? Of course not.

We are discussing a potential tourist tax for Santiago because we read about the proposal for such a tax in the Galician newspapers. If such a tax had been introduced years ago, we would barely be aware of it. But currently we are being made aware of it but it is, as somebody wrote many posts ago, essentially a political issue between the Santiago city administration and the Galician regional administration due to the fights between various political parties and their different views and plans for urban and economic policy.

 

[Kathor1]

Scrolling through the pictures showed this one. It’s not a big deal, but the reporting is accurate.

View attachment 174694

Ten points go to @peregrina2000!

When I put the photo into Google Search to find the original source, a Daily Mail article appeared. Exclusive even! So I was at least right in this respect. It was published 2 days ago. And the Mail editors know how to write catchy headlines.

Demonstrators demand Alicante tourists 'leave our neighbourhoods'

Scores of residents met at the central Plaza Toros with banners and flags reading 'Leave our neighbourhoods', 'our home is not the patio of gringos' and 'f*** AirBnB ' late Saturday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Pelegrin]

Scrolling through the pictures showed this one. It’s not a big deal, but the reporting is accurate.

View attachment 174694

No reason to mention " gringos" in Alicante because the number of people from.the USA living in this province is in 32 position. First is United Kingdom.

 

[Kathor1]

I see now that the linked article which is published on a Chilean website is an exact copy-paste job of the original British Daily Mail article. Which has readers' comments, too. One point of relevance for Camino pilgrims is perhaps the question of AirBnB and similar, a topic raised in the article and in some readers' comments.

A spokesperson is quoted as advising this: Rethink whether it is ethical to stay on AirBnB, for example.

 

[TravellingMan22]

I am sure it will play out big in the UK media this week. This weekend is the big ‘getaway’ when most of the schools finish so everyone is off to wherever at the weekend esp. Spain! So I would expect to see plenty of coverage as this is far ‘juicier’ than passport queues than have been the summer holiday nightmare story in the third week of July for the past few years. Anyway as my Indian mate who resides in Spain tells me that at least it has taken the pressure of migrants who often get the blame for lack of housing, so it’s not all bad. Send tourists to London. We will have them!!

I stay in accommodation booked thru either AirBNB or booking . Com for about 300 nights of the year but never really notice the tax proportion of it, unless I pay at check in and they specifically mention it. Airbnb is very itemised re with all the various fees and discounts listed. So I remember Rome for example. Quite a few places outside Europe too. Just focus on final price I guess even tho at the bottom end of market.

I am slightly loathe to get involved in the broader debate. I spend probably aprox. 40% of my time in Spain, but it is hard to get a view as an ‘outsider’ esp. when politics will play a part as it always does. Possibly a lot of the protesters are reasonably affluent and maybe the youth unemployment don’t have a voice. I don’t know but wouldn’t surprise me. Things are never as straightforward as they seem. It’s a global issue of course too. I would no more likely tell Americans how they solve their issues as folks from Barcelona. But I don’t like statements like ‘don’t book Airbnb’ which are the equivalent of me shouting out ‘don’t drive’, or ‘don’t eat meat! .

Cruise Ships are huge money as it has a huge American base and that’s where the money and consumption is.