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I have used Booking.com for years for lodgings abroad, and this is often the case, especially in larger cities. It is nothing new, and I recall one of my earliest memories of the charge was in Lisbon in 2019.
You are addressing an interesting aspect. Well, interesting to me anyway. The article and its attention-seeking headline is written for UK / English speaking readers. And the fact that numerous boards in the demonstration are written in English indicates also to whom it is addressed. Although I am not a native speaker of English I say with some confidence that the word "gringo" is more widely known than the word "guiri". We know what "gringo" means because we have been watching numerous movies of the US Western type. I at least had not been aware of the word "guiri" until I read about it on this forum.
Correct. Pretty much everyone in UK knows what ‘Gringo’ means. Used extensively in many cartoon series when I was young. ‘Guiri’ is an unknown.
I am very much familiar with their channel be it that Barca is one of my ( and my wife's) fave vacation cities.
Chrissy 10 years ago there were no such beast
I was called " gringo" in Chiapas ( Mexico). " Ustedes para ser gringos que bien hablan español"
Yes And south into Central America! I actually quite like it as it reminds me of my childhood!!
Gringo - a foreigner
Huh??? I recommend Wikipedia's Italian article on Tourist Tax for starters. This kind of tax on visitors has been around for a good one hundred years in Italy.
One of the signs in one of the posted photos uses the word. This term, "gringo", is a negative (some say racist) term used throughout Latin America to refer to all white people regardless of their country of origin. It appears some people in Spain also use the word for a similar effect.
And your point is? There is clear reportage of protest and distress in many locations across Europe and elsewhere where modern tourism impacts adversely on the lives of the native, resident, population.
I agree esp with the 2nd part. Reading through the thread I was thinking that clearly the main anger (as per these signs) is directed mainly towards US and UK tourists and yet... chances are there are enough Spaniards who are as just on a holiday and touristic through their own country as "the foreigners " are.
I am Spaniard and can say that gringo is no equal to foreigner in Spain. Normally the word " gringo" in Spain only comes out when talking about international conflicts when one part is not in favour of the US position.
Well, I'd say that is a helpful rephrasing of your earlier "post-Covid" claim. Do I remember correctly, coming back from being in France, Italy and Switzerland means the TMB and the Alps? With the whole range of the Alps from France to the eastern ends of Germany and Austria being THE classical tourism region of Continental Europe? That's exactly where I remember being charged tourist taxes in inns and small hotels many decades ago ...
. Luckily with still intact memory banks ).
Of course I am a contributor. I travel and I book accommodation. This is essentially a travel forum so we are all contributors, you me, and everyone else. Yep that includes you! That probably includes most of the protestors who I doubt stay out in Spain all year long. I am staying at an AIRBNB property in Germany tonight for 6 nights. Run by a poor family which needs some lunatic (i.e me!) to stay in the middle of nowhere and walk an hour to the station so they (I) can get the best price as they can’t afford a place in the city.
Loads of mainland Spaniards live in the Canaries. The one hour time difference means a work from home employee whose office is in Madrid and is contracted 9-5 can work 8-4 and get out to the beach and surf. Was mobbed during Covid. A few must play that game in the USA? Have an east coast contract and work out west?
Sure thanks! There was a ‘don’t book AirBnb’ comment this week, albeit on another thread about Barcelona.
Airbnb was launched in 2007. It operated like the familiar concept of bed and breakfast establishments, where the homeowner "lived" on the premises and rented out their extra bedrooms to tourists, etc. It now has evolved into something different, offering the whole home for a short term rent of a day or weeks, with no owner on site. Booking.com has similar offerings now with many apartments listed in cities on their website. I never considered how this practice pushes local residents out.
I guess it questions the authenticity of the protester. Seems very strange. Anyway they reached a new low today. It’s lunch time or dinner time somewhere so I won’t go into detail! .
That thought occurred to me too, but the signs are in English after all. It’s obvious that the targets are English-speaking people, and the person carrying the sign probably thought that English speakers would be more likely to understand gringo than guiri.
Yes, as the Original Poster, sadly, I agree. My original post concerned Santiago and the immediate area specifically. Later, in post #26, I asked what I thought was a serious and legitimate question: How much sway does the Church have in problems of local housing? This was not intended to be a negative comment (in any manner) about the Church--just a simple question.
According to the Santiago locals, it's big groups of pilgrims -- the ones who parade into town singing anthems, shouting slogans, blowing whistles and sometimes using bullhorns to celebrate their arrival. They often leave drifts of litter in their wake, choke up access to doorways, driveways and roads, and just generally make a nuisance of themselves.
@SBurgess, what influence does the church, “The Church” have on local politics, governance and the practical needs of the local community. None. Or at best very little. Individual priests and laity may do what they can but in most cities the local football club, car manufacturer or tourist bureau probably holds far more “sway” over what happens next. The rule of Caesar’s coin still applies
actually funny you went that way. in my case Im on east coast and my co's HQs are on the west.
I cannot argue with a Spanish local nor do I want to because in some way - it is immaterial. I pulled the explanation from the Web and if its wrong - I won't lose any sleep over it. Anyone who wishes to call me a gringo are welcome to it (I have quite a thick skin and been called a lot worse than that in my life)
@Dani7 - I believe they do live in Barcelona
That’s not in the pilgrim spirit is it. I guess the Camino is being popularized by a couple of films put out in recent years. That’s unfortunate. I’ve not seen what you describe Rebekah and yes, that sort of behaviour is bound to annoy not only the locals but other more earnest pilgrims who are a little more sensitive to their surroundings. It’s a great pity. I’ve seen similar bus loads arriving in other beautiful parts of Europe. I guess with cheap travel it’s almost inevitable.
Santiago is not just a provincial capital. It is the capital of Galicia, a region that has four provinces. A Coruña is just a provincial capital.
Well, the word provincial does not only have a geographical meaning. I meant Santiago is provincial in relation to Barcelona. But really, I just meant that it's a much smaller city. And not on tourist radars like Barcelona.
This thread has me a bit trepidatious also. I am flying into Barcelona next month and immediately grabbing the train to Zaragoza to begin walking there. What am I getting myself into?
Santiago has a higher tourist/ inhabitant rate than Barcelona.
It is as safe now as it ever was. I have lived here for 18 years and have yet to hear about a lone pilgrim being accosted by a local, even a protesting local. It's the big, rowdy groups who get them so upset in Santiago. By all means, come on over and walk. You will marvel at how quiet it is, outside the cities.
Yes, it’s safe. I was in Zaragoza last month and saw one Peregrino. Walking the Ebro?
If you are staying in Albergue and small, family run Hostal and hotels then you are not part of the problem. The issue from Barcelona to the Balearics and beyond is that local people are being squeezed out of the market by commercial landlords acquiring and letting “holiday” apartments and the consequent slow death of communities
That figure seems mind-bogglingly high. Almost half the apartments in Barcelona?
Well, if that's the case, maybe there will be big protests in Santiago. When I was there in May 2024, it did seem unpleasantly crowded in the center.
Up to Logrono, yes! And thank you!
It says so in the linked article: From the portal inmobiliario Idealista.
No. The figure of 42% is not 42% of the total number of apartments in Barcelona. It is 42% of the offer of real estate in Barcelona that came to the market during the second quarter of 2024. 42% of this total was offered for seasonal rent in Barcelona.
I just checked that fifteen US states (Maine included) have less population than Galicia (2.850.000)
Such schemes exist near where I live. There's an island off the coast of Maine called Monhegan. There's a land trust that owns houses, and when the houses are sold, you can only make a small profit. I think it's because the trusts own the land under the house and it's in the deed.
www.islandinstitute.org
This is the only way to solve the problem. But greed will prevent it. Not a fair and human-friendly world, I know.
Ah interesting and thank you. It’s a pipe dream globally of course, certainly at the moment. But who knows!Such schemes exist near where I live. There's an island off the coast of Maine called Monhegan. There's a land trust that owns houses, and when the houses are sold, you can only make a small profit. I think it's because the trusts own the land under the house and it's in the deed.
It's a little hard to understand how it works, but a friend of mine bought one of those houses many years ago, and although she can sell it, her profit is limited to a few percentage points a year (possibly tied to inflation).
A house that's part of this program sells for around US$200,000. The houses on the island that are not part of this program sell for closer to $1 million.
The houses can't be sold as second homes. They have to be your primary residence. And their hope is to attract younger families.
I would imagine this would be pretty difficult to popularize elsewhere.
Monhegan Island Sustainable Community Association - Island Institute
Monhegan Island Sustainable Community Association, or MISCA, is a combination of a land trust and an affordable housing organization. On Monhegan, where
Yes I would love to ban second homes and profiteering by home owners. Be interesting to see how the situ develops.
Agreed. Pilgrims are not causing the problem. Tourists are. I have the belief that the Spanish also know that. Hoverer, to respond to the OP, if pilgrims start using AirBnB in Santiago, it may become a pilgrim problem there.
I strongly doubt we will ever see signs in Galicia saying "pilgrims go home". Because that's exactly what pilgrims arriving in Santiago wish to do: go home.
Blimey 1.5 %. I was expecting maybe 5 %. Great detective work! Happy and reassuring to see such a small number! A lesson learnt for all of I guess. .
These statistics don't sound quite as awful as I'd thought. It now has me wondering why the big protest march in Barcelona and Alicante. Possibly the locals in particular are just plain tired of all the throngs of tourists that are increasing each year, making their lives less peaceful, unless they are a business owner enjoying profits of sales.
It's not detective work. It's just reading.
Things get whipped up I guess. Hysteria sells! It’s a good and very visual story. I’ve certainly clicked a few times. It reminds me very much of the immigration reporting by the UK media. >99% of the coverage is focused on <1% of the immigrants, namely the ones that come over on small boats without prior approval. People get whipped up beyond belief. ‘Taking our houses,, our jobs, and our doctors appointments’, whereas the real debate should about the bigger picture.
Sure! Sorry I was using detective as slang. Anyone who by any means get to the numbers! Old work phrase! Sure not expecting too much correlation across the barrios, but still 1.5% is a very powerful number.
I suspect that's it to an extent. Also, there are probably just overall housing shortages and increasing prices in Barcelona ( and other popular cities worldwide) for a multiplicity of reasons. That said, I found the Rambla and central Barcelona irritatingly crowded
I think the answer is probably much more nuanced than pilgrims good, tourists bad.
I find it hard to believe too. I was just quoting that news article. Didn't do any research myself. Can imagine though they are talking about the city center.
Ah, thanks for correcting me!
Attacking your own! Tut,tut!Well, my friends, this thread may not have answered my initial question on the effects of tourism/pilgrims on Santiago, but it certainly has initiated interesting comments.
Like Kathar1na, I prefer to read local news. This type of news usually reflects a truer view of local perspectives on local issues. Unfortunately, I have been unable to find any English-language news sites for Santiago.
So... here is another view of Pilgrims and their effect on the Camino. Much to my dismay, it exposes some ugly Americans.
Conflicting Times on the Camino de Santiago
As increasing numbers of pilgrims walk the Camino de Santiago in Europe, local communities feel the pressure to keep up.www.sapiens.org
Thanks for putting that number in the proper context. The article also makes the important observation about the rate of increase of the “seasonal rentals.” I think that could also be fueling a lot of the protests, because the trends are pretty staggering.
Lots of interesting figures for sure! I was struck by the 15% secondary home figure. That’s a lot of property.
It is possible that locals in the big cities: Pamplona, Burgos, León and of course Santiago confuse pilgrims with tourists, although I would think a backpack, sticks and a general disheveled appearence give us away easily. But in the other hundreds of small villages Caminos go through, there is no tourism whatsoever and the pilgrim influx breathes life into the España Vaciada (empty Spain).
Except for those who are sad that their Camino is over and wish they could keep walking, or those who intend to walk on to Finisterre and/or Muxia. There are a few that are not eager to get back to their busy lives at home.
Of course, the dreaded post-Camino blues. Which keep so many of us returning to haunt Spain year after year.
I remember when albergues needed pilgrims. They even resorted to dirty tricks to get them (false yellow arrows). The number of pilgrims so far this year is greater than for an entire year a decade ago! Like the hills, it is a bit of a sine wave. The huge crowd this year will return home and bad mouth the experience. Enthusiasm will wane. Barcelona will holster the water pistols and do a scientific analysis of tourism and income. Airbnbs will become unprofitable and come on the market at desperation prices.
False yellows arrows? Really!!
Yes, that is occasionally true, done to direct pilgrims a bit off trail to their own establishments.
Yes. An old trick. And still happening from time to time - a number of Spanish news websites reported one incident of the sort in the past couple of weeks.
Oh yes!
When I lived in Wales for a few months (renting a room from a friend of a friend) the most notable thing was that the pub never shut!
ferrol360.es
www.bbc.com
Maybe (because the housing shortage seems to be worldwide) it could be Air BnB that’s the problem. All the places that are now Air BnB used to be long term rentals.
"Airbnb doesn't allow properties to be rented out for more than 90 nights per year. If your limit for bookings is reached, Airbnb will automatically close your property until the end of the calendar year. In addition to 90 consecutive days, the 90-day limit also applies to 90 days spread throughout the year."Maybe (because the housing shortage seems to be worldwide) it could be Air BnB that’s the problem. All the places that are now Air BnB used to be long term rentals.
Where do you hear that?
Greater London introduced a 90 days rule for AirBnB rentals. Other towns and regions around the world introduced similar limits. It is not universal. I don’t think that it applies to Santiago. Or Barcelona for that matter. For anyone interested in limits in a particular town or region and for location-specific law, I’d suggest to just google it.
A bit off topic for most folks....but....@falcon269...is that really you?
I'm quite sure the many residents protesting in Barcelona, or anywhere along the Camino (including Santiago) will not describe the housing prices and shortage for local and permanent residents to the likes of Airbnb's, etc. will describe their actions as hysteria.
I don't detect much hysteria. Just individual extrapolation and generalisation where it is difficult to say whether it is imaginary or has some base in facts and reality. What I do see is a cacophony of links from the internet and comments and opinions, which, while interesting, appear to be barely or not at all related to the specific situation of Santiago de Compostela and Galicia as a tourist destination. Of which we appear to know little.
] for example. And anyway, while issues are similar in many cities, the housing market in the UK, especially in London and the South East, is complex and significantly different from Spain.
Thank you! Agreed. Sorry I wasn’t clear. I was talking ‘hysteria’ from a UK media standpoint. Maybe that wasn’t the right word but I had lunch with a Spanish couple yesterday (from Malaga) and they used the word ‘hysteria’ which suprised me but they used to live in London so know the word. UK media nowadays is largely driven by hysteria.I don't detect much hysteria. Just individual extrapolation and generalisation where it is difficult to say whether it is imaginary or has some base in facts and reality. What I do see is a cacophony of links from the internet and comments and opinions, which, while interesting, appear to be barely or not at all related to the specific situation of Santiago de Compostela and Galicia as a tourist destination. Of which we appear to know little.
Take the newest example: A long quote from a US Legal Forms website about a 90 days rule concerning AirBnB that does not apply to Spain or to Santiago or to Barcelona. The net quickly delivers confirmation that such a rule exists, not only in parts of the USA but also in Europe, namely in London. However, the London rule applies only to lets of "whole properties", i.e. whole flats or houses, and not to a room or two within someone's apartment [aka as flat
Then another long quote from a New York Times article from three years ago about Barcelona and their then new "ban, which took effect on Aug. 6 [2021 and] sets Barcelona apart as the only major city in Europe to have forbidden short-term private room rentals, even as it continues to allow the renting of entire apartments — so long as the owner of the property holds the appropriate license." It is actually a long and detailed article about the developments in Barcelona but there is no mention of Santiago and of the specific problems that Santiago has or may have in the future and how they tackle them.
What transpires from these linked articles is the fact that this is mainly a question of legislation and regularisation of the local housing markets and employment markets by the local administrations - and this includes detection and elimination of illegal and unlicensed lettings to tourists. There is little if anything that the one-day pilgrim visitor can do in the respect.
I have used Airbnb a fair bit though booking . com are my ‘go to’. Currently staying in one in the German countryside for 7 nights. I tend to use them for longer stays of one week up to one month, though I do have a 6 month booking with them next summer. Hugely variable from someone’s spare room to a private home. Let’s see it plays out I guess. Thanks for wading through the quagmire.
You are right. The topic has disappeared for the time being in the UK media (which is often the main source for articles in the global English language news media) and it is currently replaced by other big news. Best headline I saw so far: "Computer says no".
