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Not quite vanished - they just found another target for the same topic. Spotted this long rant about tourists wrecking Edinburgh today on iNews.The topic has disappeared for the time being in the UK media
Spotted this long rant about tourists wrecking Edinburgh today
You can always stay in Glasgow, or even Newcastle, and get the train of course! Great cities (not that Edinburgh isn’t) but will be much more of local feel.I'm heading there early next week for a couple of days. I was, (or maybe shouldn't have been) surprised how the cost of even modest accomodation is almost three times what I paid a few years ago.
Still, I'll do my level best to blend in and stay off the tourist trail.. Should I wear a kilt so I don't get kilt?
Presumably this is good news or am I missing something?It is surprising what turns up when one googles the news. Turistas Santiago millones led me to albergues Santiago millones and that led me to a flurry of very recent news articles about the new contract that the government of Galicia has just tendered for the next two years. It has a volume of 12 million euros and includes cleaning and day-to-day management of the public pilgrim albergues in Galicia. It covers the cost for both staff and material for maintenance.
There are currently 79 of these government owned and maintained albergues in Galicia with 3.600 beds. Of these, 62 are directly managed by the Galician government and a further 13 - although also owned by the public Xacobeo organisation - are managed by municipalities and other entities. 4 more are planned and would also be covered by the new contract. This net of public pilgrim albergues of Galicia is definitely a touristic infrastructure for tourist-pilgrims that is pretty unique.
They are gearing up for the next Holy Year in 2027 and are expecting a further growth in Camino pilgrim numbers for Galicia and for Santiago.
It is just newsPresumably this is good news or am I missing something?
The Xunta allocated a budget of 141 million euros for preparations for the 2027 Holy Year. Some of the recent fuss about tourist numbers and behaviour may reflect political squabbles between the provincial government and the Santiago city council. A useful topic with which to challenge the opposition.They are gearing up for the next Holy Year in 2027 and are expecting a further growth in Camino pilgrim numbers for Galicia and for Santiago.
How happy am I that I do not need this in my 2027 diary.It is surprising what turns up when one googles the news. Turistas Santiago millones led me to albergues Santiago millones and that led me to a flurry of very recent news articles about the new contract that the government of Galicia has just tendered for the next two years. It has a volume of 12 million euros and includes cleaning and day-to-day management of the public pilgrim albergues in Galicia. It covers the cost for both staff and material for maintenance.
There are currently 79 of these government owned and maintained albergues in Galicia with 3.600 beds. Of these, 62 are directly managed by the Galician government and a further 13 - although also owned by the public Xacobeo organisation - are managed by municipalities and other entities. 4 more are planned and would also be covered by the new contract. This net of public pilgrim albergues of Galicia is definitely a touristic infrastructure for tourist-pilgrims that is pretty unique.
They are gearing up for the next Holy Year in 2027 and are expecting a further growth in Camino pilgrim numbers for Galicia and for Santiago.
This is a real head-scratcher. What could possibly be the rationale for this policy? Now there have to be four units removed from the long term rental market to provide the market with every one full year of short term rentals. I know that’s not how it works, and that there is not a 1-1 correlation, but that is one way to think about the effect of a government-imposed limit on occupancy rates. Whatever the “normal” empty period that the market would create, this policy seems to have the effect of creating more rather than fewer short term rental units. This makes no sense to me at all, but maybe someone can explain it.Greater London introduced a 90 days rule for AirBnB rentals. Other towns and regions around the world introduced similar limits. It is not universal.
I was in Barcelona a day or so after these demonstrations. It is just a hype by the media. My tour guide said she never saw any of it and said it was just a few people involved. Somehow they got the media behind them. Friends were messaging me beforehand to be careful. Noone in Barcdlona where I went spole about it.This is a 7-minute video about residents of Barcelona protesting against over-tourism. It also comments on protests in other parts of the world. It also comments on the economic benefits for the tourist industry as well as the economic suffering of the residents.
The video is from YouTube. There are numerous articles from around the world about these protests.
I can assure you that, at least in Malaga, the protesters were very representative of what has been going on for more than 10 years in this city, and are not particularly affluent. All my friends here are spanish, all my kids friends are spanish, from Malaga, and although these people all have jobs, and very good ones for some of them, it is impossible for them to find flats in Malaga, whether to buy or to rent. So either you stay put where you are already, in the case of my friends, lucky if you own your home, trembling if you don’t, or you have to move out of the city if your lease comes to an end, or you stay with your parents in the case of my kids friends, which, when you are 25 and have a job, is not normal. Or you are lucky and inherit your parent’s house. That’s it.I am sure it will play out big in the UK media this week. This weekend is the big ‘getaway’ when most of the schools finish so everyone is off to wherever at the weekend esp. Spain! So I would expect to see plenty of coverage as this is far ‘juicier’ than passport queues than have been the summer holiday nightmare story in the third week of July for the past few years. Anyway as my Indian mate who resides in Spain tells me that at least it has taken the pressure of migrants who often get the blame for lack of housing, so it’s not all bad. Send tourists to London. We will have them!!
I stay in accommodation booked thru either AirBNB or booking . Com for about 300 nights of the year but never really notice the tax proportion of it, unless I pay at check in and they specifically mention it. Airbnb is very itemised re with all the various fees and discounts listed. So I remember Rome for example. Quite a few places outside Europe too. Just focus on final price I guess even tho at the bottom end of market.
I am slightly loathe to get involved in the broader debate. I spend probably aprox. 40% of my time in Spain, but it is hard to get a view as an ‘outsider’ esp. when politics will play a part as it always does. Possibly a lot of the protesters are reasonably affluent and maybe the youth unemployment don’t have a voice. I don’t know but wouldn’t surprise me. Things are never as straightforward as they seem. It’s a global issue of course too. I would no more likely tell Americans how they solve their issues as folks from Barcelona. But I don’t like statements like ‘don’t book Airbnb’ which are the equivalent of me shouting out ‘don’t drive’, or ‘don’t eat meat! .
Cruise Ships are huge money as it has a huge American base and that’s where the money and consumption is.
I think the idea is that it's OK to occasionally rent out your own home, but not to permanently remove properties from the local housing market. And the whole idea is that it won't be profitable to have a property on airbnb that you can only rent for 90 days a year, so those properties will return to long-term rental.This is a real head-scratcher. What could possibly be the rationale for this policy? Now there have to be four units removed from the long term rental market to provide the market with every one full year of short term rentals. I know that’s not how it works, and that there is not a 1-1 correlation, but that is one way to think about the effect of a government-imposed limit on occupancy rates. Whatever the “normal” empty period that the market would create, this policy seems to have the effect of creating more rather than fewer short term rental units. This makes no sense to me at all, but maybe someone can explain it.
And the other thing that is really astonishing is that it must be the case that 90 days of airbnb rentals is more profitable than a year of a regular rental. AND from those 90 days worth of revenue, the owner has to subtract cleaning fee, the platform’s fee, and in some places local taxes.
I am clearly not understanding something.
A serious issue, but maybe not one for this forum.The Canary Islands has a big problem to manage the arrival of thousands of minors from África and they want help from the península but in the península some people are reluctant to receive these minors. These days people in Spain are more worried about this issue than the one in the OP.
Thank you for the very useful insight. I guess i am just not convinced that Airbnb is the issue. The data presented on here - Airbnb vs secondary homes was powerful to me. It was BCN data - do you know the ratio for Malaga? Lots of credible media sources seem to doubt the impact of restrictions to Airbnb? If people want to see restrictions to Airbnb that’s fine but surely we are about solving the issue the OP identified? .I can assure you that, at least in Malaga, the protesters were very representative of what has been going on for more than 10 years in this city, and are not particularly affluent. All my friends here are spanish, all my kids friends are spanish, from Malaga, and although these people all have jobs, and very good ones for some of them, it is impossible for them to find flats in Malaga, whether to buy or to rent. So either you stay put where you are already, in the case of my friends, lucky if you own your home, trembling if you don’t, or you have to move out of the city if your lease comes to an end, or you stay with your parents in the case of my kids friends, which, when you are 25 and have a job, is not normal. Or you are lucky and inherit your parent’s house. That’s it.
I have had 4 very good friends having to move out. It breaks my heart.
Meanwhile, AirBnB makes a ton of money, the people leasing their flats on AirBnB in Spain too and often don’t pay taxes, and hotels are not full. I travel a lot, I never stayed in an AirBnB and never will.
It’s a powerful image. I guess pilgrims are a subset ofJust to chime in that the anti-mass-tourism sentiment does exist in Santiago: this photo was taken on the way into Barrio San Lázaro on Friday (19.7.24). I hope it's ok to post despite the profanity.
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It has been said in various ways in this thread, but it is worth repeating: To some local residents along the Camino (including Santiago), Pilgrims/Tourists are one and the same.Just to chime in that the anti-mass-tourism sentiment does exist in Santiago: this photo was taken on the way into Barrio San Lázaro on Friday (19.7.24). I hope it's ok to post despite the profanity.
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Valid point. Either way they are both consumers so no difference in terms of the impact they have on the demand for goods and services, especially accommodation. The only objective difference is that visitors walking the Camino tend not to stay very long.It has been said in various ways in this thread, but it is worth repeating: To some local residents along the Camino (including Santiago), Pilgrims/Tourists are one and the same.
But in an endless line...Valid point. Either way they are both consumers so no difference in terms of the impact they have on the demand for goods and services, especially accommodation. The only objective difference is that visitors walking the Camino tend not to stay very long.
I don’t know about the Mail but tabloids in USA think nothing of illustrating misleading articles with photos dishonestly searched out to reinforce the deception. In one article I saw, they even added a trail of blood to a photo that had none! Quite possible that the Mail used a photo that seemed a good representation of the article but was actually taken elsewhere.When I put the photo into Google Search to find the original source, a Daily Mail article appeared. Exclusive even! So I was at least right in this respect. It was published 2 days ago. And the Mail editors know how to write catchy headlines.
These days they/we often are, as opposed to (say) 25 years ago, or even 10 years ago.It has been said in various ways in this thread, but it is worth repeating: To some local residents along the Camino (including Santiago), Pilgrims/Tourists are one and the same.
Finally, someone who's in Santiago right now, giving their direct experience. That's one data point though. There are probably more people who welcome pilgrims or are indifferent, but we have no way of knowing.Just to chime in that the anti-mass-tourism sentiment does exist in Santiago: this photo was taken on the way into Barrio San Lázaro on Friday (19.7.24). I hope it's ok to post despite the profanity.
I don't understand why you keep phrasing the question in that way.So, I am back to my OP: Will today's protests move to Santiago?
The issue? I imagine a very quick padlock would be the result of saying what I think is the issue! (Maybe the invention of the wheel...Thank you for the very useful insight. I guess i am just not convinced that Airbnb is the issue. The data presented on here - Airbnb vs secondary homes was powerful to me. It was BCN data - do you know the ratio for Malaga? Lots of credible media sources seem to doubt the impact of restrictions to Airbnb? If people want to see restrictions to Airbnb that’s fine but surely we are about solving the issue the OP identified? .
Very Respectfully.I don't understand why you keep phrasing the question in that way.
There have already been, and likely will continue to be, protests in Santiago about the behaviour of visitors and the effect of large numbers on the quality of life in Santiago. There have been protests in Barcelona. There have been protests in other cities. These are all based on similar considerations.
Why do you suggest that they would "move"? Building that into your question makes it very difficult to answer. To the question of whether there will be protests in the future in Santiago, I would answer "Probably, as they have already taken place, and things are getting worse." To the question of whether the protests will move from Barcelona to Santiago, I would be less certain, as it implies a transfer of something from one city to the other. Is this what you are implying and trying to elicit from us?
Don’t quite understand what you mean but I was referring to the rental inventory in BCN of 1.5% versus the second home ownership of 15%. So very simplistically without an ‘on the ground’ broader view I would say that second homes may be the broader issue. In the UK 2nd home (Cornwall for example) has attracted alot of column inches.The issue? I imagine a very quick padlock would be the result of saying what I think is the issue! (Maybe the invention of the wheel...)
The onion is an image that comes to mind now. Layer after layer to reach the core...
Two comments left me wonder a bit: A quote that says thatthe Fodor article
Not being overly specific to your post but I was reflecting on how students play out in all this as there has been tensions between locals and students over a range of issues not least housing in the UK. In fact male students in some towns are advised not to frequent some pubs or maybe avoid weekends. Renting to Students can be very lucrative as you can fill up a house with quite a few of them. Rents can be quite pricey (student often have wealthy parents) and may well be more lucrative than renting to a normal family.Just in case anyone actually reads the Fodor article and believes every word, this line is not true: It was a perfect storm combining a holy year for Santiago, when devout pilgrims receive a plenary indulgence for completing the Camino. Nobody gets a plenary indulgence for completing the Camino. Not a big deal of course in this context about tourism and pilgrimagism in Santiago just a lack of knowledge of the freelance author who is based in New York, has lived for four years in Galicia and has created winesofgalicia.com, the first English-language site dedicated to Galician wine.
The article is a fairly good and accurate summary of various articles in the Galician media and of the activist Instagram account @compostelaresiste. It does not sound as if the writer has done some independent research and interviewed anyone.
This two comments left me wonder a bit: A quote that says that
It this reduction in student numbers true - and if so over which time period - and is the accommodation situation the main reason?
- the number of students who enroll in the University of Santiago de Compostela has gone from 50,000 to 15,000,” he says. “And why? Because the students can’t find anywhere affordable to live anymore. It’s all tourists.
The second quote is this:
That is obviously a reference to the marker of "tourism pressure". Santiago has about 100,000 inhabitants, so this corresponds to 150,000 tourists. This cannot be per day so what is it? Per month? Summer season? May to September? And how comparable is this factor? It obviously has to do with how long tourists stay and where they are. In Santiago, the issue appears to be mainly the old town - a fairly small area.
- Santiago receives over 400,000 pilgrims each year (not to mention the non-Camino de Santiago tourists), which keeps growing. In the high season, there are 1.5 tourists per every local, or Compostelano—an even higher number than in other tourist hotspots like Barcelona or Palma de Mallorca
I am aware of this as I have family in Brighton. They bought a house recently - in a row of these typical English terraced houses and at what this Continental European regards as an exorbitant price - and to the right and left of them are houses that are rented out to students. However, as fascinating as all this is, it is next to impossible to keep this thread on trackin the UK
I refer to building blocks. Nothing appears from nothing. One thing leads to another. I know, I am not apparently on topic, but essentially, disturbance somewhere affects tranquility somewhere else. Eventually. Don't worry about trying to understand me. You are not aloneDon’t quite understand what you mean but I was referring to the rental inventory in BCN of 1.5% versus the second home ownership of 15%. So very simplistically without an ‘on the ground’ broader view I would say that second homes may be the broader issue. In the UK 2nd home (Cornwall for example) has attracted alot of column inches.
Taking a step back I am in position where I cannot afford to buy or rent in my home city. If short terms rental were banned tomorrow do I think it would change the dial. Well not really.
I don’t think you would have problem if you put forward your thoughts. We have a range of views, some data, but of course a very incomplete view so all thoughts and insights build a picture.
This is a real head-scratcher. What could possibly be the rationale for this policy? Now there have to be four units removed from the long term rental market to provide the market with every one full year of short term rentals. I know that’s not how it works, and that there is not a 1-1 correlation, but that is one way to think about the effect of a government-imposed limit on occupancy rates. Whatever the “normal” empty period that the market would create, this policy seems to have the effect of creating more rather than fewer short term rental units. This makes no sense to me at all, but maybe someone can explain it.
And the other thing that is really astonishing is that it must be the case that 90 days of airbnb rentals is more profitable than a year of a regular rental. AND from those 90 days worth of revenue, the owner has to subtract cleaning fee, the platform’s fee, and in some places local taxes.
I am clearly not understanding something.
Sorry I was being very slow and very thick! It offen happen. And you are absolutely right! I now get it!I refer to building blocks. Nothing appears from nothing. One thing leads to another. I know, I am not apparently on topic, but essentially, disturbance somewhere affects tranquility somewhere else. Eventually. Don't worry about trying to understand me. You are not alone.
The article is behind a paywall for me and in the first lines that everyone can read the first thing I noticed is the fact that Francesco de la Torre, the mayor of Malaga since 2000 and in the first year of his current term, is 81 years old.I know this thread is specifically about Santiago, but this is on the first page of SUR this morning, to give you an idea… Can anyone get more cynical than Malaga’s Mayor?
Correct.The article is behind a paywall for me and in the first lines that everyone can read the first thing I noticed is the fact that Francesco de la Torre, the mayor of Malaga since 2000 and in the first year of his current term, is 81 years old.
Although I cannot read the article I guess that it addresses a point that Malaga has in common with Santiago: Much of the protest action is aimed at the urban and economic policies of the local city administration. Their aim is more and more tourists and they don't do enough to mitigate the negative effects of tourism on the local population although they could. Higher numbers are celebrated as a success each year. Look at headlines like this (again not Santiago but exemplary for their situation, too): Barcelona to ramp up flight arrivals this summer – despite wave of anti-tourist protests last year or elsewhere "Spanish airlines expect a record summer season and are adding 13% more seats from a year ago, confident that consumers will continue to..."
And it always makes be giggle a bit when someone evokes "capitalism" as the source of all mass tourism evil. IMHO, never before had so many people so much opportunity to travel at affordable prices to distant destination to spend leisure time there. And leisure time includes, in my understanding, walking a Camino. At least in the 21st century.
Funny enough I am renting an Airbnb right now just outside Hamburg. It fits what I need. A private room with shared facilities. Price is a key factor and I’m rolling in at about €200 for 7 nights. The downside. Well it 30 to 60 mins by train from Hamburg (I have a interrail pass) depending on whether S Bahn, IC or ICE and then a 60 walk from there. The buses stop early so I am getting plenty of exercise. I got into Hamburg everyday.Everybody keeps referring just to airbnb. All online rental platforms are an issue.
I have booked several rooms in Spain, and numerous apartments here in Germany on Booking. whilst on my walk from home.
One German example (from April ).
The apartment owner lives in the building, it's six apartments. Since purchase, she's been gradually renovating it over the past seven years (it was originally very run down). She renovated an Apartment and quickly realised that she can make significantly more money renting it out short-term than long-term. Even with only a 50% occupancy rate in her first year ( her figure) after fees, cleaning etc (tax deductible) she made nearly double what she gets from the apartments she has rented out long-term. So she eventually did the same with her other two available apartments.
That means that just 50% of the building is occupied by locals, the rest is visitors like ourselves.
I'm sure that the situation is similar elsewhere.
Spain: Sigüeiro is a good example: I rented a private room at the Albergue, it's actually in a separate building. An apartment with four bedrooms, two bathrooms, lounge and kitchen - it's now solely 'visitors'.
My understanding is that @Molly Cassidy is completely correct, the idea is to make it unprofitable for landlords to solely rent on airbnb and to return these properties to the market. If it's uneconomical for the landlords to rent them out, then they will sell them. Either way they're returned to the 'pool'.
People that wish to simply rent out their properties short term whilst they themselves are away are unaffected. Eg:
I rented an apartment in Trondheim from a student whilst he was on holiday July 2022. My 10 days paid for his Month! Win - win.
Perhaps I am mistaken but I thought it had been clarified earlier already that the issue is not online platforms like AirBnB or Booking.com as such.Funny enough I am renting an Airbnb right now just outside Hamburg. ... 30 to 60 mins by train from Hamburg
Yes - and no. Because the short term - (esp. O/night) rental of those secondary Appartments is facilitated/ made possible by the existence of the online platforms. And because they are easily rented out at a much higher rental to visitors - whether business or tourists is immaterial - they remove those self same secondary apartments from the local rental pool. Whilst incidentally removing those visitors from the very hotel's, boarding houses etc that were set up to support them in the first place.Perhaps I am mistaken but I thought it had been clarified earlier already that the issue is not online platforms like AirBnB or Booking.com as such.
The issue is secondary apartments; not lived in by the proprietor; in old established inner-city communities with erstwhile affordable housing and an intact urban environment with shops for non-tourist local needs
This !Yes - and no. Because the short term - (esp. O/night) rental of those secondary Appartments is facilitated/ made possible by the existence of the online platforms. And because they are easily rented out at a much higher rental to visitors - whether business or tourists is immaterial - they remove those self same secondary apartments from the local rental pool. Whilst incidentally removing those visitors from the very hotel's, boarding houses etc that were set up to support them in the first place.
Secondary dwellings have existed for hundreds of years, the overnight rental of such is a relatively new phenomena.
Data from the site below shows a reduction in students from 32,509 to 25,568 between 2009 and 2021 (I have ignored the category for which no recent data is available).Is this reduction in student numbers true - and if so over which period of time - and is the accommodation situation the main reason?
Yes, booking.com used to be all hotels and proper b'n'bs but they're moved into Airbnb style rentals now too. I think it makes it quite confusing for the customer to work out what they are actually renting.All online rental platforms are an issue.
Simple answer: Very poor phrasing. Maybe I should have asked if the squirt gun-type protest happening in Barcelona would also begin happening in Santiago. My question was specific to Santiago as I had no idea how strong the Pilgrim/Tourist anger was in the greater Santiago area.I don't understand why you keep phrasing the question in that way.
There have already been, and likely will continue to be, protests in Santiago about the behaviour of visitors and the effect of large numbers on the quality of life in Santiago. There have been protests in Barcelona. There have been protests in other cities. These are all based on similar considerations.
Why do you suggest that they would "move"? Building that into your question makes it very difficult to answer. To the question of whether there will be protests in the future in Santiago, I would answer "Probably, as they have already taken place, and things are getting worse." To the question of whether the protests will move from Barcelona to Santiago, I would be less certain, as it implies a transfer of something from one city to the other. Is this what you are implying and trying to elicit from us?
I interpreted that as saying that at any given time in the high season there were 1.5 tourists/ local (150,000 by your numbers) in Santiago. Individual tourists come and go, but that is the number that are in the city at any given time during the high season. Certainly, the number of Compostela-earning pilgrims is nowhere near that, even if everyone stays around for several days so that the number in the city is several times the number arriving that day. But it is possible that the number of non-Compostela earning visitors to the city may dwarf the number coming for a Compostela. It certainly used to be the case. I don't know if the disparity has shrunk with the growing popularity of the Camino.The second quote is this:
That is obviously a reference to the marker of "tourism pressure". Santiago has about 100,000 inhabitants, so this corresponds to 150,000 tourists. This cannot be per day so what is it? Per month? Summer season? May to September? The number of pilgrims arriving per day during the peak season is a few thousand - about 2,000 to 3,000 receive a Compostela and to this is added a percentage of 30% who don't get registered in the statistics of the Oficina del Peregrino. And how comparable is this factor? It obviously has to do with how long tourists (including Camino pilgrims) stay and where they walk around and shop and eat and drink. In Santiago, the issue appears to be mainly the old town - a fairly small area.
- Santiago receives over 400,000 pilgrims each year (not to mention the non-Camino de Santiago tourists), which keeps growing. In the high season, there are 1.5 tourists per every local, or Compostelano—an even higher number than in other tourist hotspots like Barcelona or Palma de Mallorca
I can remember people turning to look at me, pointing me out as a novelty, and even taking photos of me on my first arrival in Santiago as if I was an alien species from Doctor Who. Though there is always the possibility that was entirely personal and not directly related to my pilgrim status... Doesn't happen these days when the novelty has long worn off.But it is possible that the number of non-Compostela earning visitors to the city may dwarf the number coming for a Compostela. It certainly used to be the case. I don't know if the disparity has shrunk with the growing popularity of the Camino.
What if you rent for 90 days a year in Airbnb and then use other platforms, of which there are scores?I think the idea is that it's OK to occasionally rent out your own home, but not to permanently remove properties from the local housing market. And the whole idea is that it won't be profitable to have a property on airbnb that you can only rent for 90 days a year, so those properties will return to long-term rental.
I too find very hard to believe those numbers: 150,000 pilgrims on a single day in high season? According to Google, that would be 10 Obradoiros choke-full with pilgrims (and backpacks). Plus 125 Cathedrals for them to go to noon mass. Preposterous.I interpreted that as saying that at any given time in the high season there were 1.5 tourists/ local (150,000 by your numbers) in Santiago. Individual tourists come and go, but that is the number that are in the city at any given time during the high season. Certainly, the number of Compostela-earning pilgrims is nowhere near that, even if everyone stays around for several days so that the number in the city is several times the number arriving that day. But it is possible that the number of non-Compostela earning visitors to the city may dwarf the number coming for a Compostela. It certainly used to be the case. I don't know if the disparity has shrunk with the growing popularity of the Camino.
I walked into Santiago a month ago. I did notice large groups coming through singing, yelling, racing across the square. Very noisy and triumphant.It is as safe now as it ever was. I have lived here for 18 years and have yet to hear about a lone pilgrim being accosted by a local, even a protesting local. It's the big, rowdy groups who get them so upset in Santiago. By all means, come on over and walk. You will marvel at how quiet it is, outside the cities.
I made a serious effort to find information about what that sentence means: In the high season, there are 1.5 tourists per every local, or Compostelano—an even higher number than in other tourist hotspots like Barcelona or Palma de Mallorca.I too find very hard to believe those numbers: 150,000 pilgrims on a single day in high season? According to Google, that would be 10 Obradoiros choke-full with pilgrims (and backpacks). Plus 125 Cathedrals for them to go to noon mass. Preposterous.
Just for info - I have no "point to prove", I am merely interested in understanding what I read here and in the media - below is an extract from a table published in this "informe".Informe "O imposto sobre estadías turísticas para Santiago de Compostela"
I payed a separate tax to rent an apartment or hotel in Austria more than 20 years ago. And it was a seperate tax,that the owners made clear, was going for tourist fees. In turn we usually got a town card which sometimes offered “one” free entrance to the town pool, free local buses, or other discounts.@Kathar1na - what I meant is that I sincerely do not remember paying any tax separately the way that it's now. If it was built into the price it was not noticeable. It probably still is there but now in addition to, there is this "extra" tax payable on arrival. I just came back from being in France, Italy and Switzerland and had to pay extra (city I believe they all said it was) tax in every hotel o stayed
Forty percent of pilgrims are Spanish this year. A compostela is a customary rite of passage for many high school students. Even when raucous I observed them to be quite courteous to oldsters. I took an extra trash bag to pick up after them, so their regard for the environment may fall short of that for the aging!I walked into Santiago a month ago. I did notice large groups coming through singing, yelling, racing across the square. Very noisy and triumphant.
In the time that I was there all of these large groups were Spanish. There was one small group of Italian cyclists, but apart from that all were large groups of young Spanish people having fun in their own country.
Find albergue. Install in albergue. Return to bar.Camino is littered? Pick up litter. Camino is crowded? Wait 10 minutes, pick up more litter. Camino is heavy rain and mud? Go to bar. Stay in bar
"we are not stuck in traffic, we are traffic" - thank you for this little gem.Joni Mitchell had it fairly covered “they pave Paradise, put up a parking lot”, though I was always fond of the rhyme in “they took all the trees put’em in a tree museum, and they charged all the people a dollar and a half just to see’em”.
The fact remains we are not stuck in traffic, we are traffic
From my reading of the local news websites it seems like the main area of concern at the moment is the effect of large groups of pilgrims and some individuals behaving in crass and disrespectful ways. Though more general concerns about overall tourist numbers and their impact runs that a close second. The situation is slightly confused because both issues are being used for political point-scoring by opposing factions in both the city council and the provincial government.The next question is, in what form followed by when?
If you knew the simple answer 270 posts ago, why ask the question. And why not give the answer to the next two questions, too: When? In which form? We can then discuss among ourselves what we assume to be the current issues in Santiago …My original post from a month ago (9 July) was a simple question: "Will the Protest Against Tourists in Barcelona Come to Santiago?".
For me, the simple answer is, YES.
The next question is, when? Followed by, in what form?
You repeatedly insist that you asked a simple question, but it has been made clear in this long thread that your question was too complex for a simple answer, and further your question was poorly worded. Finally you told us your simple answer in post #268.My original post from a month ago (9 July) was a simple question: "Will the Protest Against Tourists in Barcelona Come to Santiago?".
Hmm, I think you have mis-answered your own question. "Will the protests against tourists in Barcelona come to Santiago?" The answer to that question is an emphatic "No". Nobody in Barcelona gives a flying fig about what is happening in Santiago.My original post from a month ago (9 July) was a simple question: "Will the Protest Against Tourists in Barcelona Come to Santiago?".
For me, the simple answer is, YES.
The next question is, when? Followed by, in what form?
As to when any protest might take place and what form the protest might express themselves? Well, a basic review of my question (#268) was that IT WAS A QUESTION! I never implied or stated that it was nothing other than just that, a question! How anyone could conclude that I had an answer is beyond me.
Now, can we get back to the original comment as stated in #1?---or close this thread?
Oh my, such anger. And for what?
Now, can we get back to the original comment as stated in #1?
Since we really have exhausted that question in post #1, let's go with closing.Now, can we get back to the original comment as stated in #1?---or close this thread?
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