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Not quite vanished - they just found another target for the same topic. Spotted this long rant about tourists wrecking Edinburgh today on iNews.
inews.co.uk
You can always stay in Glasgow, or even Newcastle, and get the train of course! Great cities (not that Edinburgh isn’t) but will be much more of local feel.I'm heading there early next week for a couple of days. I was, (or maybe shouldn't have been) surprised how the cost of even modest accomodation is almost three times what I paid a few years ago.
Still, I'll do my level best to blend in and stay off the tourist trail.. Should I wear a kilt so I don't get kilt?
Presumably this is good news or am I missing something?
It is just news
. The government of Galicia has been awarding such a contract to an external company for years. The contract runs for several years and then there is a new public tender procedure. It had just occurred to me that Galicia has this network of public albergues and how unique it is in the touristic landscapes, especially in view of the provision of accommodation and how expensive (or rather how cheap) it is.
The Xunta allocated a budget of 141 million euros for preparations for the 2027 Holy Year. Some of the recent fuss about tourist numbers and behaviour may reflect political squabbles between the provincial government and the Santiago city council. A useful topic with which to challenge the opposition.
How happy am I that I do not need this in my 2027 diary.
This is a real head-scratcher. What could possibly be the rationale for this policy? Now there have to be four units removed from the long term rental market to provide the market with every one full year of short term rentals. I know that’s not how it works, and that there is not a 1-1 correlation, but that is one way to think about the effect of a government-imposed limit on occupancy rates. Whatever the “normal” empty period that the market would create, this policy seems to have the effect of creating more rather than fewer short term rental units. This makes no sense to me at all, but maybe someone can explain it.
I was in Barcelona a day or so after these demonstrations. It is just a hype by the media. My tour guide said she never saw any of it and said it was just a few people involved. Somehow they got the media behind them. Friends were messaging me beforehand to be careful. Noone in Barcdlona where I went spole about it.
I can assure you that, at least in Malaga, the protesters were very representative of what has been going on for more than 10 years in this city, and are not particularly affluent. All my friends here are spanish, all my kids friends are spanish, from Malaga, and although these people all have jobs, and very good ones for some of them, it is impossible for them to find flats in Malaga, whether to buy or to rent. So either you stay put where you are already, in the case of my friends, lucky if you own your home, trembling if you don’t, or you have to move out of the city if your lease comes to an end, or you stay with your parents in the case of my kids friends, which, when you are 25 and have a job, is not normal. Or you are lucky and inherit your parent’s house. That’s it.
I think the idea is that it's OK to occasionally rent out your own home, but not to permanently remove properties from the local housing market. And the whole idea is that it won't be profitable to have a property on airbnb that you can only rent for 90 days a year, so those properties will return to long-term rental.
A serious issue, but maybe not one for this forum.
Thank you for the very useful insight. I guess i am just not convinced that Airbnb is the issue. The data presented on here - Airbnb vs secondary homes was powerful to me. It was BCN data - do you know the ratio for Malaga? Lots of credible media sources seem to doubt the impact of restrictions to Airbnb? If people want to see restrictions to Airbnb that’s fine but surely we are about solving the issue the OP identified? .
It’s a powerful image. I guess pilgrims are a subset of
It has been said in various ways in this thread, but it is worth repeating: To some local residents along the Camino (including Santiago), Pilgrims/Tourists are one and the same.
Valid point. Either way they are both consumers so no difference in terms of the impact they have on the demand for goods and services, especially accommodation. The only objective difference is that visitors walking the Camino tend not to stay very long.
I don’t know about the Mail but tabloids in USA think nothing of illustrating misleading articles with photos dishonestly searched out to reinforce the deception. In one article I saw, they even added a trail of blood to a photo that had none! Quite possible that the Mail used a photo that seemed a good representation of the article but was actually taken elsewhere.When I put the photo into Google Search to find the original source, a Daily Mail article appeared. Exclusive even! So I was at least right in this respect. It was published 2 days ago. And the Mail editors know how to write catchy headlines.
These days they/we often are, as opposed to (say) 25 years ago, or even 10 years ago.
Finally, someone who's in Santiago right now, giving their direct experience. That's one data point though. There are probably more people who welcome pilgrims or are indifferent, but we have no way of knowing.
I don't understand why you keep phrasing the question in that way.
The issue? I imagine a very quick padlock would be the result of saying what I think is the issue! (Maybe the invention of the wheel...
)
Very Respectfully.
Don’t quite understand what you mean but I was referring to the rental inventory in BCN of 1.5% versus the second home ownership of 15%. So very simplistically without an ‘on the ground’ broader view I would say that second homes may be the broader issue. In the UK 2nd home (Cornwall for example) has attracted alot of column inches.The issue? I imagine a very quick padlock would be the result of saying what I think is the issue! (Maybe the invention of the wheel...
The onion is an image that comes to mind now. Layer after layer to reach the core...
, this line is not true: It was a perfect storm combining a holy year for Santiago, when devout pilgrims receive a plenary indulgence for completing the Camino. Nobody gets a plenary indulgence for completing the Camino. This needs to be pointed out as inaccurate although it is of course not a big deal in the context of an article about tourism and pilgrimagism in Santiago; it is just a lack of basic knowledge of a freelance author who is based in New York, has lived for four years in Galicia and has created winesofgalicia.com, the first English-language site dedicated to Galician wine.
Two comments left me wonder a bit: A quote that says that
Not being overly specific to your post but I was reflecting on how students play out in all this as there has been tensions between locals and students over a range of issues not least housing in the UK. In fact male students in some towns are advised not to frequent some pubs or maybe avoid weekends. Renting to Students can be very lucrative as you can fill up a house with quite a few of them. Rents can be quite pricey (student often have wealthy parents) and may well be more lucrative than renting to a normal family.Just in case anyone actually reads the Fodor article and believes every word
The article is a fairly good and accurate summary of various articles in the Galician media and of the activist Instagram account @compostelaresiste. It does not sound as if the writer has done some independent research and interviewed anyone.
This two comments left me wonder a bit: A quote that says that
It this reduction in student numbers true - and if so over which time period - and is the accommodation situation the main reason?
- the number of students who enroll in the University of Santiago de Compostela has gone from 50,000 to 15,000,” he says. “And why? Because the students can’t find anywhere affordable to live anymore. It’s all tourists.
The second quote is this:
That is obviously a reference to the marker of "tourism pressure". Santiago has about 100,000 inhabitants, so this corresponds to 150,000 tourists. This cannot be per day so what is it? Per month? Summer season? May to September? And how comparable is this factor? It obviously has to do with how long tourists stay and where they are. In Santiago, the issue appears to be mainly the old town - a fairly small area.
- Santiago receives over 400,000 pilgrims each year (not to mention the non-Camino de Santiago tourists), which keeps growing. In the high season, there are 1.5 tourists per every local, or Compostelano—an even higher number than in other tourist hotspots like Barcelona or Palma de Mallorca
I am aware of this as I have family in Brighton. They bought a house recently - in a row of these typical English terraced houses and at what this Continental European regards as an exorbitant price - and to the right and left of them are houses that are rented out to students. However, as fascinating as all this is, it is next to impossible to keep this thread on track
: Santiago and their specific situation.
I refer to building blocks. Nothing appears from nothing. One thing leads to another. I know, I am not apparently on topic, but essentially, disturbance somewhere affects tranquility somewhere else. Eventually. Don't worry about trying to understand me. You are not alone
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Sorry I was being very slow and very thick! It offen happen. And you are absolutely right! I now get it!I refer to building blocks. Nothing appears from nothing. One thing leads to another. I know, I am not apparently on topic, but essentially, disturbance somewhere affects tranquility somewhere else. Eventually. Don't worry about trying to understand me. You are not alone
The article is behind a paywall for me and in the first lines that everyone can read the first thing I noticed is the fact that Francesco de la Torre, the mayor of Malaga since 2000 and in the first year of his current term, is 81 years old.
Correct.The article is behind a paywall for me and in the first lines that everyone can read the first thing I noticed is the fact that Francesco de la Torre, the mayor of Malaga since 2000 and in the first year of his current term, is 81 years old.
Although I cannot read the article I guess that it addresses a point that Malaga has in common with Santiago: Much of the protest action is aimed at the urban and economic policies of the local city administration. Their aim is more and more tourists and they don't do enough to mitigate the negative effects of tourism on the local population although they could. Higher numbers are celebrated as a success each year. Look at headlines like this (again not Santiago but exemplary for their situation, too): Barcelona to ramp up flight arrivals this summer – despite wave of anti-tourist protests last year or elsewhere "Spanish airlines expect a record summer season and are adding 13% more seats from a year ago, confident that consumers will continue to..."
And it always makes be giggle a bit when someone evokes "capitalism" as the source of all mass tourism evil. IMHO, never before had so many people so much opportunity to travel at affordable prices to distant destination to spend leisure time there. And leisure time includes, in my understanding, walking a Camino. At least in the 21st century.
Funny enough I am renting an Airbnb right now just outside Hamburg. It fits what I need. A private room with shared facilities. Price is a key factor and I’m rolling in at about €200 for 7 nights. The downside. Well it 30 to 60 mins by train from Hamburg (I have a interrail pass) depending on whether S Bahn, IC or ICE and then a 60 walk from there. The buses stop early so I am getting plenty of exercise. I got into Hamburg everyday.
Perhaps I am mistaken but I thought it had been clarified earlier already that the issue is not online platforms like AirBnB or Booking.com as such.
Yes - and no. Because the short term - (esp. O/night) rental of those secondary Appartments is facilitated/ made possible by the existence of the online platforms. And because they are easily rented out at a much higher rental to visitors - whether business or tourists is immaterial - they remove those self same secondary apartments from the local rental pool. Whilst incidentally removing those visitors from the very hotel's, boarding houses etc that were set up to support them in the first place.
This !
Data from the site below shows a reduction in students from 32,509 to 25,568 between 2009 and 2021 (I have ignored the category for which no recent data is available).
Yes, booking.com used to be all hotels and proper b'n'bs but they're moved into Airbnb style rentals now too. I think it makes it quite confusing for the customer to work out what they are actually renting.
Simple answer: Very poor phrasing. Maybe I should have asked if the squirt gun-type protest happening in Barcelona would also begin happening in Santiago. My question was specific to Santiago as I had no idea how strong the Pilgrim/Tourist anger was in the greater Santiago area.
I interpreted that as saying that at any given time in the high season there were 1.5 tourists/ local (150,000 by your numbers) in Santiago. Individual tourists come and go, but that is the number that are in the city at any given time during the high season. Certainly, the number of Compostela-earning pilgrims is nowhere near that, even if everyone stays around for several days so that the number in the city is several times the number arriving that day. But it is possible that the number of non-Compostela earning visitors to the city may dwarf the number coming for a Compostela. It certainly used to be the case. I don't know if the disparity has shrunk with the growing popularity of the Camino.
I can remember people turning to look at me, pointing me out as a novelty, and even taking photos of me on my first arrival in Santiago as if I was an alien species from Doctor Who. Though there is always the possibility that was entirely personal and not directly related to my pilgrim status... Doesn't happen these days when the novelty has long worn off.
What if you rent for 90 days a year in Airbnb and then use other platforms, of which there are scores?
I too find very hard to believe those numbers: 150,000 pilgrims on a single day in high season? According to Google, that would be 10 Obradoiros choke-full with pilgrims (and backpacks). Plus 125 Cathedrals for them to go to noon mass. Preposterous.
I walked into Santiago a month ago. I did notice large groups coming through singing, yelling, racing across the square. Very noisy and triumphant.
I made a serious effort to find information about what that sentence means: In the high season, there are 1.5 tourists per every local, or Compostelano—an even higher number than in other tourist hotspots like Barcelona or Palma de Mallorca.
Just for info - I have no "point to prove", I am merely interested in understanding what I read here and in the media - below is an extract from a table published in this "informe".
I payed a separate tax to rent an apartment or hotel in Austria more than 20 years ago. And it was a seperate tax,that the owners made clear, was going for tourist fees. In turn we usually got a town card which sometimes offered “one” free entrance to the town pool, free local buses, or other discounts.
Forty percent of pilgrims are Spanish this year. A compostela is a customary rite of passage for many high school students. Even when raucous I observed them to be quite courteous to oldsters. I took an extra trash bag to pick up after them, so their regard for the environment may fall short of that for the aging!
Find albergue. Install in albergue. Return to bar.Camino is littered? Pick up litter. Camino is crowded? Wait 10 minutes, pick up more litter. Camino is heavy rain and mud? Go to bar. Stay in bar
"we are not stuck in traffic, we are traffic" - thank you for this little gem.
From my reading of the local news websites it seems like the main area of concern at the moment is the effect of large groups of pilgrims and some individuals behaving in crass and disrespectful ways. Though more general concerns about overall tourist numbers and their impact runs that a close second. The situation is slightly confused because both issues are being used for political point-scoring by opposing factions in both the city council and the provincial government.
If you knew the simple answer 270 posts ago, why ask the question. And why not give the answer to the next two questions, too: When? In which form? We can then discuss among ourselves what we assume to be the current issues in Santiago …
You repeatedly insist that you asked a simple question, but it has been made clear in this long thread that your question was too complex for a simple answer, and further your question was poorly worded. Finally you told us your simple answer in post #268.
Hmm, I think you have mis-answered your own question. "Will the protests against tourists in Barcelona come to Santiago?" The answer to that question is an emphatic "No". Nobody in Barcelona gives a flying fig about what is happening in Santiago.
Since we really have exhausted that question in post #1, let's go with closing.
