Walking Poles- Emperors new clothing in stick form ?

[pelerine]

Excellent, falcon269, your list of benefits from using poles! I too am in my senties (77) and have been using them for the past 25+ years. Have healthy back, knees and hips - touch wood, they will last.....

 

[C clearly]

It should be about respecting the other persons choice, right? Well it's not. This is a very one sided conversation.

The OP gave a one-sided opinion (he doesn't need poles and others shouldn't either) and asked others to respond, by asking what is the point of walking poles. We have answered his question with enthusiasm. The thread has emerged as an entertaining pole poll, and the results are clearly one sided. That doesn't make them disrespectful.

I admire @stgcph for pointing out that he personally doesn't like poles. That is totally acceptable as he doesn't suggest that he is any more "right" than others. His is a very good reason not to use poles:

I don't like trekking poles..

I rather agree with him. I don't "like" them either, but believe that they help me physically. Like @JillGat,

I *still* think others look idiotic with their poles. But not me!

[I've edited the above because @stgcph rightly and cheerfully pointed out how I had misrepresented his comments.]

 

[Kieran Kenneally]

I fail to see the purpose in mocking people who use poles

I use Poles all the time especialy for painting jobs. If you want a job well done and effciently just hire a Polish person they work hard and walk rings around the opposition Seriously though I only ever used poles once on the first week of the Northern route I found them invaluable especially coming down hills where the knees tend to lock up. when I reached the flat I just retracted them and hung them from my back pack so no clicky clacky noises from yours truly. Jeepers can anybody remember when we used to stick those metal stud type things just to hear the sound of metal on stone I think they were meant to stop the heels on your shoes wearing down. Super cool when I was a kid but now we are just poles apart

 

[Turga]

I admire @stgcph for entering the fray with the only defensible reason for the anti-poll lobby.

Thank you. But I think you are quoting me a little out of context here. I am not in any lobby. As far as I am concerned people can walk with trekking poles, homemade wooden sticks, telephone poles or a fish in each hand – whatever make them happy.

 

[martin1ws]

... In your categories of pole user styles, you forgot "the Spider". That's the one who extends the sticks out alternately in front of them and walks toward them, which mostly negates their usefulness.
...

It depends on the circumstances.
Yesterday I did a training walk in the night. In the wood I used the spider-style often... to "feel" the way.

I don't like trekking poles...

I would like it more if I would not need trekking poles.

I think it is with poles as it is with shoes or walking pace... everyone has to find his own appropriate way.

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

I can only speak for myself. I hate owning noisy poles and because I need them due to medical issues, I also have rubber feet for them so they make very little noise and rarely slide on anything. However, as it is the wisdom of the hiker to have multiple uses for everything carried, my pole do extra duty as the single pole needed to itch my tent and also as a boom for photography, (notice I did not say, "selfie stick?)

 

[easygoing]

Walking Caminos not only marked my retirement, . they were also the point I returned to the long distance hikes of my youth. Of course I have travelled inbetween times but maybe more as an independent tourist as opposed to a traveller.

Nothing much had changed in the interim apart from the fact that I soon became aware (on the Frances) of an almost constant "clicking" sound when in front or behind groups or individuals. This was of course the intrusive sound of metal tipped walking poles being slammed onto rocks, tarmac and paving slabs. I also watched as people used the poles in situations where (elderly) locals were walking completely unaided ie. across flat plazas. Bizarre.

As I watched these poles in action it soon became obvious that they were being used in numerous different ways and given that I almost always walked past the people using them by natural pace I got to asking myself "what is the point of walking poles".

I googled "how to use Walking Poles" so appreciate that there is a semblance of technique behind using the things in some circumstances but most of the people I saw seemed to have missed the point. Do the poles come with instructions ? In fact I only ever saw one person using them in any sort of way that seemed to fit what I had read - and even then, rest assured, the poles spent most of the time attached to his back-pack.

My own observational user guide:

1.The Swinger (thought this would grab your attention). Ensure that on the back swing the poles on both sides are swung out at an angle from the body approaching 45 degrees so as to ensure that when you do hit someone you get the lower leg as opposed to the more muscular upper part.

2. The Kerb Grater. Works on one side only depends on what side of the road you are walking on. Ensure that the metal tip rasps down the outside of the kerb before hitting the tarmac this ensuring the noise is maximised. This technique also requires that you be in a trance like state that prevents you from moving sideways to the degree needed to avoid hitting the kerb

3. The Pusher. First ensure that the poles are low enough (below waist height) so that you push down on them rather that pull down on them. This ensures that whatever effort you use is directed straight down. What this achieves is anyones guess.

4. The Skier (my favorite). Obvious really, use both polls in tandem as in skiing but without the snow. I have (without poles) tried to replicate this with my arms whilst trying to walk normally. I failed , it's actually quite difficult as it is not a natural walking rhythm, so hats off to anyone who has this move perfected.

5. The Slammer. Completely flat road/track/paved plaza required here. Slam the, preferably metal tipped, poles hard down to produce the loudest noise possible. Then present an appearence of complete blissful ignorance as to the noise created versus any perceived material benefit.

6. The Technician. As in "this looks dodgy, I think it's time to get the poles out". The poles were just going into use as I made the bottom of the slight hill and looked back to see what progress these technical aids had provided the user. Answer very little but he did at least look like he knew what he was doing.

7. The Pointer. Best seen in Santiago walking in front of the cathedral. Walks across plaza (still using poles) then randomly points out to companion some elevated feature seemingly oblivious to the fact that attached to the end of their hand was 4 foot + of pointy stick. The speed of this move was awesome.

7. The Golfer. Uses a number 7 golf club in place of a stick. Obviously accessed the wrong Camino user forum. Suprisingly seemed to benefit from the added weight, grip and amount of area in contact with the ground.

8. OK I made the last one up .

So I have to ask what is the point of these ergonomically handled, aircraft grade carbon fibre, collapsible, cool coloured and expensive walking sticks. I feel qualified to ask having walked nearly 4K klm with at least 8Kg pack over many gradients, surfaces and in various temperatures in the last 2 years without poles and never feeling the need for poles. The pilgrims I met without poles also shared all if not most of the same opinions as well. Someone has made a lot of money from these things. I have some very expensive glass hammers and sky hooks for sale if anyone is interested !

I loved the humor in your post and I agree most people don't use them correctly. However my poles have prevented many a slip and or fall going down hill and at 72 a fall can be serious. . Also my arms get exercise as they help me climb by pushing on the poles at an angle . Using poles correctly also prevents those swollen fingers some people get. Too bad people don't know how useful they are or how annoying the click is on side walk and paved road.

 

[Marbe2]

I have been using Leki poles for at least 25 years! You obviously see no benefit from them and I doubt anyone's comments are going to change your mind! I use rubber tips in the cities but am not really distracted by the sounds of others tips hitting the stone or pavement. A little tolerance helps! It would obviously be better for the tips to have the added protection of the rubber. To equate Hiking poles with "glass hammers" is rather insulting...and IMO less than humorous! There are many folks who only are able to finish because they have them. I got caught in a blizzard near La Cruz de Ferro and without them we would have had a hard time making it to Acebo! I know folks who dislike poles and others who depend on them..good for you if you do not choose to use them.

 

[Yodapsy]

I am pretty sure that I wouldn’t have finished my Camino without hiking poles. They help distribute weight away from my flat feet and kept me from falling or slipping. I have rubber feet on the bottom of my Pacer Poles.

 

[David]

Yes David. You have to push down hard on them! That's precisely where most people go wrong. Newton's 3rd law of motion and all that I have tried to test it, with scales and would estimate I'm putting 10-15 kg downward pressure on them going up hills, and 5-10 kg on the flat. On the flat they push me forward and keep me more upright.

Coming down hills they are merely acting as brakes and I'm leaning hard on them to take the weight off my shins. I find that my shins really suffer going downhill. They take about 20-30 kg pressure going downhill. I wore out a pair on my first Camino.......

I demonstrated to my wife the pressure required, by putting my hand on top of hers in the pole loop. She was quite shocked. But then found it worked..........

If the user is not 'serious' about using them in terms of the downward pressure required, I'd say they are pointless. No benefit whatsoever. Maybe balance....

You surprise me David. You're normally so wise on all things Camino

Ah - but Robo, I read your post and find that you actually agree with me!
apart from providing excellent and necessary stability in certain conditions they are useless as the scales don't change unless one exerts serious downward pressure - so where do we disagree??????

A word on my history - I was registered disabled for eight years with a terribly damaged knee and right arm from a road accident. I still have to wear a serious knee brace - the type with hinges and all that - at times and I have walked with and without poles, one and two. I find that a single pole or staff gives superb stability and safety on bad terrain but on 'normal' terrain (most of the Camino) I find that pilgrims just lean forward clacking away with no physical benefit whatsoever.

Sure, they can help to get that swinging gait going - but, believe it or not, one can get that without sticks in the hands!

 

[David]

I don't like trekking poles...

I don't like trekking poles.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Don Camillo beware!
Not loving the poles is frowned upon on the forum and might make Your posts disappear.

I would say I know from experience but I have no post to show as proof.

Too funny...love it!

 

[Icacos]

I enjoyed reading your observational guide Don Camillo and thought what a great "Monty Python" sketch it would have made, similar to one of my favourites "The Ministry of Silly Walks"

Tears of laughter roll down my cheeks every time I look at "The Ministry of Silly Walks." One can only imagine what "Monty Python" could have done with the use and misuse of poles.

 

[Peter Aulbury]

I have used my Pacer Poles every day of every walk. They have saved my knees, not to mention my life. Someone tried to buy them off me in the middle of France one year - name any price! - and I refused. So yes, I find mine indispensable.

I couldn't agree more, my poles were my constant companions. I bought new rubber "tap ons" at Pamplona from Caminoteca...but they wore thru by Santiago. I think Don Camillo is pulling our leg as they say in Australia...poles are essential for anyone with gammy knees, and oh, by the way in 2 weeks I get a new total knee replacement and after that look forwards to my Camino No.3 (with my poles of course)

 

[Vivianne Flintoff]

Walking Caminos not only marked my retirement, . they were also the point I returned to the long distance hikes of my youth. Of course I have travelled inbetween times but maybe more as an independent tourist as opposed to a traveller.

Nothing much had changed in the interim apart from the fact that I soon became aware (on the Frances) of an almost constant "clicking" sound when in front or behind groups or individuals. This was of course the intrusive sound of metal tipped walking poles being slammed onto rocks, tarmac and paving slabs. I also watched as people used the poles in situations where (elderly) locals were walking completely unaided ie. across flat plazas. Bizarre.

As I watched these poles in action it soon became obvious that they were being used in numerous different ways and given that I almost always walked past the people using them by natural pace I got to asking myself "what is the point of walking poles".

I googled "how to use Walking Poles" so appreciate that there is a semblance of technique behind using the things in some circumstances but most of the people I saw seemed to have missed the point. Do the poles come with instructions ? In fact I only ever saw one person using them in any sort of way that seemed to fit what I had read - and even then, rest assured, the poles spent most of the time attached to his back-pack.

My own observational user guide:

1.The Swinger (thought this would grab your attention). Ensure that on the back swing the poles on both sides are swung out at an angle from the body approaching 45 degrees so as to ensure that when you do hit someone you get the lower leg as opposed to the more muscular upper part.

2. The Kerb Grater. Works on one side only depends on what side of the road you are walking on. Ensure that the metal tip rasps down the outside of the kerb before hitting the tarmac this ensuring the noise is maximised. This technique also requires that you be in a trance like state that prevents you from moving sideways to the degree needed to avoid hitting the kerb

3. The Pusher. First ensure that the poles are low enough (below waist height) so that you push down on them rather that pull down on them. This ensures that whatever effort you use is directed straight down. What this achieves is anyones guess.

4. The Skier (my favorite). Obvious really, use both polls in tandem as in skiing but without the snow. I have (without poles) tried to replicate this with my arms whilst trying to walk normally. I failed , it's actually quite difficult as it is not a natural walking rhythm, so hats off to anyone who has this move perfected.

5. The Slammer. Completely flat road/track/paved plaza required here. Slam the, preferably metal tipped, poles hard down to produce the loudest noise possible. Then present an appearence of complete blissful ignorance as to the noise created versus any perceived material benefit.

6. The Technician. As in "this looks dodgy, I think it's time to get the poles out". The poles were just going into use as I made the bottom of the slight hill and looked back to see what progress these technical aids had provided the user. Answer very little but he did at least look like he knew what he was doing.

7. The Pointer. Best seen in Santiago walking in front of the cathedral. Walks across plaza (still using poles) then randomly points out to companion some elevated feature seemingly oblivious to the fact that attached to the end of their hand was 4 foot + of pointy stick. The speed of this move was awesome.

7. The Golfer. Uses a number 7 golf club in place of a stick. Obviously accessed the wrong Camino user forum. Suprisingly seemed to benefit from the added weight, grip and amount of area in contact with the ground.

8. OK I made the last one up .

So I have to ask what is the point of these ergonomically handled, aircraft grade carbon fibre, collapsible, cool coloured and expensive walking sticks. I feel qualified to ask having walked nearly 4K klm with at least 8Kg pack over many gradients, surfaces and in various temperatures in the last 2 years without poles and never feeling the need for poles. The pilgrims I met without poles also shared all if not most of the same opinions as well. Someone has made a lot of money from these things. I have some very expensive glass hammers and sky hooks for sale if anyone is interested !

I a

Walking Caminos not only marked my retirement, . they were also the point I returned to the long distance hikes of my youth. Of course I have travelled inbetween times but maybe more as an independent tourist as opposed to a traveller.

Nothing much had changed in the interim apart from the fact that I soon became aware (on the Frances) of an almost constant "clicking" sound when in front or behind groups or individuals. This was of course the intrusive sound of metal tipped walking poles being slammed onto rocks, tarmac and paving slabs. I also watched as people used the poles in situations where (elderly) locals were walking completely unaided ie. across flat plazas. Bizarre.

As I watched these poles in action it soon became obvious that they were being used in numerous different ways and given that I almost always walked past the people using them by natural pace I got to asking myself "what is the point of walking poles".

I googled "how to use Walking Poles" so appreciate that there is a semblance of technique behind using the things in some circumstances but most of the people I saw seemed to have missed the point. Do the poles come with instructions ? In fact I only ever saw one person using them in any sort of way that seemed to fit what I had read - and even then, rest assured, the poles spent most of the time attached to his back-pack.

My own observational user guide:

1.The Swinger (thought this would grab your attention). Ensure that on the back swing the poles on both sides are swung out at an angle from the body approaching 45 degrees so as to ensure that when you do hit someone you get the lower leg as opposed to the more muscular upper part.

2. The Kerb Grater. Works on one side only depends on what side of the road you are walking on. Ensure that the metal tip rasps down the outside of the kerb before hitting the tarmac this ensuring the noise is maximised. This technique also requires that you be in a trance like state that prevents you from moving sideways to the degree needed to avoid hitting the kerb

3. The Pusher. First ensure that the poles are low enough (below waist height) so that you push down on them rather that pull down on them. This ensures that whatever effort you use is directed straight down. What this achieves is anyones guess.

4. The Skier (my favorite). Obvious really, use both polls in tandem as in skiing but without the snow. I have (without poles) tried to replicate this with my arms whilst trying to walk normally. I failed , it's actually quite difficult as it is not a natural walking rhythm, so hats off to anyone who has this move perfected.

5. The Slammer. Completely flat road/track/paved plaza required here. Slam the, preferably metal tipped, poles hard down to produce the loudest noise possible. Then present an appearence of complete blissful ignorance as to the noise created versus any perceived material benefit.

6. The Technician. As in "this looks dodgy, I think it's time to get the poles out". The poles were just going into use as I made the bottom of the slight hill and looked back to see what progress these technical aids had provided the user. Answer very little but he did at least look like he knew what he was doing.

7. The Pointer. Best seen in Santiago walking in front of the cathedral. Walks across plaza (still using poles) then randomly points out to companion some elevated feature seemingly oblivious to the fact that attached to the end of their hand was 4 foot + of pointy stick. The speed of this move was awesome.

7. The Golfer. Uses a number 7 golf club in place of a stick. Obviously accessed the wrong Camino user forum. Suprisingly seemed to benefit from the added weight, grip and amount of area in contact with the ground.

8. OK I made the last one up .

So I have to ask what is the point of these ergonomically handled, aircraft grade carbon fibre, collapsible, cool coloured and expensive walking sticks. I feel qualified to ask having walked nearly 4K klm with at least 8Kg pack over many gradients, surfaces and in various temperatures in the last 2 years without poles and never feeling the need for poles. The pilgrims I met without poles also shared all if not most of the same opinions as well. Someone has made a lot of money from these things. I have some very expensive glass hammers and sky hooks for sale if anyone is interested !

I appreciate my walking poles. They have prevented me falling many times over the years. I mostly use rubber covers over the metal tips. Stops the noise and helps limit erosion as the thicker rubber ends are less likely to leave holes which fill with water and contribute to erosion.

I will continue to value my poles

 

[C clearly]

Thank you. But I think you are quoting me a little out of context here. I am not in any lobby. As far as I am concerned people can walk with trekking poles, homemade wooden sticks, telephone poles or a fish in each hand – whatever make them happy.

You are absolutely right. I have edited my post! I must say, however, that I have my doubts about the telephone poles.

 

[Robo]

Ah - but Robo, I read your post and find that you actually agree with me!
apart from providing excellent and necessary stability in certain conditions they are useless as the scales don't change unless one exerts serious downward pressure - so where do we disagree??????

My point is, that to use Poles correctly, one must exert considerable downward pressure. If this is done, they are a marvellous aid.

They are great, sometimes indispensable, for safety and stability on truly rough, mud-soft, or steep ground .. so much better to be a triped than a biped - but apart from that they are a complete waste of time -

The main support I have heard for them is that they remove weight from the legs and feet - really? Ok, stand on your bathroom scales and see how very very very hard you have to push down to alter the reading on the scale - they just don't work.

So there my opinion! ... though, they are very good for pointing at things

You seem to think they are a waste of time

We will agree to disagree

It's a bit like the debates on essential oils. I love them and use them to treat many different things on Camino such as cuts and sunburn and insect bites.

Others point to 'scientific evidence' that they are of no benefit at all.
Tell my wife they don't work next time she uses Lavender oil on a burn in the kitchen.
You'll have a tough time keeping her away from the bottle!

Opinions are like (enter appropriate body part here)....... we all have one

Afternote. I will 'partially' agree with you.
For 'most' people trekking poles don't work. Other than for stability.
Because 'most' people don't use them properly.

 

[JillGat]

I am sure proponents of 'free climbing' also probably look at other climbers that use traditional pitons and ropes for mountain climbing as being something to pity and mock as well.
What ever works for each pilgrim is fine. What is not as fine is mocking other pilgrims equipment choices or technique just because it is not your own preferred way to go about it.

Well, yes, pitons are frowned on by most climbers now because they damage the rock and are not an *elegant* way to climb. But I don't think anybody looks down at ropes (even those who climb without them).

 

[HedaP]

Yikes, I thought this was a fun thread. I’m out of here.

 

[Purple Backpack]

If they're good enough for Gandalf, they're good enough for me....
(cartoon from ruthe.de)

 

[Amioco]

Poor guy in sahagun, whilst in a caFe, somebody had a bsentmindedly taken one of their own poles and one of his, leaving him to discover he had a mismatched pair... He set off in such a rage to try and find the accidental culprit. If you have poles, beware the angry pole checker on the camino!!

 

[Amioco]

Got used to the clicking poles, however some guy had purchased an oversized wooden staff and has no idea how to use it properly, so persisted in dragging it noisily behind him..... Drove me mad!! Made me so appreciative of the pole walkers who at least picked up their sticks in between steps!!! I knicknamed noisy man Mr Sticky, and I kept bumping into him, it would spur me on with a burst of speed to get away from the horrible noise!! How his wife didn't take the stick off him and beat him with it is beyond me!!

 

[HedaP]

Aghhh was going to like all new posts and then realised I was supposed to be out of here. It would rather spoil my “dignified” exit.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

some guy had purchased an oversized wooden staff and has no idea how to use it properly, so persisted in dragging it noisily behind him.

When it has a metal tip, the noise is prominent. Rather than be irritated, I stop for a long drink of water. The same thing works for cell phone call and chattering magpies. In general when something it outside one's control, it is best for the disposition to do what is in one's control to alleviate it. Why complain about sunburn when sunblock is available? Why complain about blisters when silicone, Compeed, and regular stops are available?

I confess that I have not found the alleviation technique that works for speeding bicycles. I cannot hear them approaching, I cannot give them bells, I cannot always walk to the side of the path so there is room for them. I may have to conclude that the only solution will come from outside me!

 

[Tim Greig]

Pilgrims have used poles/staffs for 1000 years. I use one pole and I always carry it when walking through villages. I can only imagine the irritation felt by locals of the constant click-click-click passing their homes, especially early in the morning.

 

[David]

I disagree, paired walking poles are a modern fashion item invention ... a sort of diversification of skiing poles - they seemed to appear when hype-marketing worked out that they could persuade people to wear a different expensive costume for each activity - whereas the staff goes back forever.
The staff gives stability, which is all that is needed, and is traditionally also used as a good weapon, used as a quarter staff, for defence from animals and humans.

We both do the same, I have a single pole too, for stability when needed. I used to carry a staff but it seemed too 'biblical' to me and was much heavier than a pole. A single pole is also a good defence weapon.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

paired walking poles are a modern fashion item invention

If it is fashion, why don't we see them on the runway or the streets of New York and Hollywood? Since they are found on hiking trails, I think they are more utilitarian than fashionable.

 

[C clearly]

paired walking poles are a modern fashion item invention

Simply not true for most users on the Camino. I would rather not have them, and I feel quite silly using them at home (so I don't, and THAT is for reasons of fashion!) Paired poles may be a modern invention but they are not fashion items!

There are other things I use purely for function, that one might call "fashion statements" - for example, a visor or hat, the appearance of which I hate. A few people may wear eyeglasses for fashion, but you would be wrong to assume most do!

 

[Purple Backpack]

...the staff goes back forever. The staff gives stability, which is all that is needed, and is traditionally also used as a good weapon, used as a quarter staff, for defence from animals and humans.

Staffs also work well against Balrogs, Orcs, Goblins and Bad Wizards. I never walk in Middle Earth without at least one, and preferably, two.

 

[REV]

I agree with JillGat.

After reading this forum extensively in 2014 before my three 2015 Caminos, I investigated PacerPoles The PP videos and instructions were useful, and the PP unique handle design makes it easy to learn how to use them and difficult to use them improperly. (Chris Bonnington's comments impressed me too.)

Perhaps some of the anti-pole commenters might alter their views if they actually tried PacerPoles.

Here is part of an earlier post of mine about Pacer Poles:

<<
http://www.pacerpole.com

They can be obtained online from Britain. There are also YouTube videos showing how to use them. Their handles are quite different from other poles, and they are very comfortable to use.

I used PacerPoles last year for nearly 1000 miles on the Camino Frances, Camino Portuguese and Camino Ingles. Before that, I used them on a difficult hike in the highlands of Bali. I am 70+ . These poles have been a major contribution to both my safety and my comfort.

Here is a review I just found online:

http://sectionhiker.com/pacer-poles-why-arent-all-trekking-poles-this-good/

It begins:

"British-made Pacerpoles are far superior to the trekking poles you can buy in the United States. I’ve been testing a pair for nearly 2 months and I am a convert. They help me carry a backpack with better posture, prevent muscle soreness in my legs, and are much more resistant to bending and snapping than my current trekking poles.

The main difference between conventional poles and Pacerpoles is in the hand grip. It’s kind of hard to explain so I’ve shot this video to show you. Instead of a vertical pole grip, the Pacerpoles have a horizontal pistol style grip, where your thumb is positioned at a 45 degree angle to the ground and the ball of your hand is on the top of the pole. These two changes give you a much better mechanical advantage to use the poles for propulsion and lift, rather than just lateral stabilization like conventional hiking and trekking poles."

I suggest reading the entire review, which also includes:

"If you decide to take the plunge, Pacerpoles has an unlimited 30 day return policy which may or may not give you enough time to decide whether you like the differences or not. Either way, you really need to commit to these poles to get any benefit out of them." AND

"Conclusion
I am very impressed with the aluminum pair of Pacer Poles that I tested in this review and I’m glad I finally tried them. Honestly, I will probably buy a pair of my own rather than continue using Black Diamond trekking poles for three season hiking. The Pacerpole hand grip makes such a difference in my posture, walking speed, and stability that I can’t imagine settling for anything less. If you climb a lot of mountains, you should give Pacerpoles a try. I would recommend sticking with the aluminum ones, only because they will be more resistant to breaking and they are likely to still be usable if you bend them. I’ve snapped way more carbon fiber poles than I ever want to and don’t trust them in very rocky terrain."

My own discovery of PacerPoles was through this Forum, which I explained in an earlier post:

"I do not think I would have completed the Caminos without them, because I had several long stretches with a problem with my left leg. Others in my family have also used them with similarly positive experiences. I tried them after reading a lengthy thread asking something like "Does anyone NOT like PacerPoles?" They are made in the UK, and there is a 30 day trial period. Learning to use them is relatively easy. The instructions and the videos are reasonably straight-forward. With their special, angled grips for the left and right hands it is difficult to use them improperly."
>>

 

[trecile]

As a non-hiker, I never thought that I would use poles, but after reading this forum I too decided to try Pacer Poles. I have to admit that part of the reason I decided on using poles at all was pure vanity. I didn't want to lose muscle tone in my arms while I walked for over a month. Sure, I could have done push ups every day to keep up my upper body strength, but I was pretty sure that after walking 15 to 20 miles the last thing that I was going to want to do was push ups! So making my arms a more equal participant in my walking helped to keep my arms looking good. Then there were several times that my poles caught me from falling, and probably helped my face from becoming a bloody mess.

I keep the rubber tips on my poles at all times, so no click clacking from me. And when I enter a city or other populated area I collapse them and put them in my pack.

 

[RJM]

This thread is very odd. In many ways started to ridicule pilgrim's use of trekking poles. I am sure there are pilgrims walking the Camino who do not use them in a textbook manner, but why would anyone care that they do? I can't say I made it a point to observe the competency of another pilgrim in their trekking pole use. Why would I? There were so many other things more wonderful to see.

 

[David]

My opinions on paired walking poles used on easy terrain is merely my own opinion, it isn't meant to insult users, just my opinion.
As for fashion - fashion isn't just about skinny models on catwalks. Perhaps that with English English we have a more subtle language over here? In the UK each year we have a huge motor show where the latest cars are displayed, the latest fashion presented.

Not many decades ago if someone went cycling they wore their normal daily clothes, even in races. The same goes for hiking, hikers used to wear an old suit and carry any old canvas bag. Then the fashion industry - broadly meant here - got involved and started designing specialist clothing and kit for each activity and now it is the norm to wear specialist fashion items for each activity. One can tell it is fashion for two reasons, the first is that it is unnecessary, the second is that 'what is right' changes year by year.
don't get me wrong - I wear specialist Keens hiking sandals and they are marvellous - but each year they change them slightly, usually just the colours .. they update them as fashion items.

I wear the same 'Camino' sandals at home, the same 'Camino' lightweight 'outdoor' shirts and shorts, so, if pairs of poles are so brilliant and effective and necessary then why do I never see them used by people going shopping or walking to the bank? I walk to shops and carry my shopping home in a backpack and I am sure many of us do the same, and I see many clothed, like me, in 'outdoor' lightweights - but I never see poles - so if they are so brilliant and effective and necessary why is that?

 

[pelerine]

I agree with what you say about fashion. However the reason why you don't see anybody using poles going to the bank or carrying the shopping in a backpack is because they do not walk any distance worth mentioning. If they did you would see them using poles...

 

[Kanga]

If only I had so much money that I needed a backpack to carry it to the bank!

 

[JillGat]

Subjectively, I have not found that to be the case. Having used both, I find trekking poles more efficient than a single walking pole.

Not just subjectively, but objectively. There are lots of data supporting this (that two poles are more effective than one).

When people try to tell me why my poles don't help me, it reminds me of when people in boots tell me I shouldn't be walking in sandals. Numerous times on the Camino, people have told me that I am bound to get gravel stuck in them, that my toes are not protected, that I must get cold, that I should have more ankle support, that the straps will rub against my skin, etc. etc.

And then I see many of them later in the albergue with tape all over their toes, Compeed over blisters on their heels, boots on the shelf, caked in mud. And in the morning I see them slathering Vaseline or sprinkling powder on their feet, re-doing their elaborate foot-taping system and pinning their still-damp socks to the back of their packs.

I put on my sandals and go.

Yes, this isn't about poles, but it's just another example of the pointlessness of telling other people what should work for them or not. (An exception is the fact that there is something wrong with people who prefer sweet red wine over dry).

 

[JillGat]

I disagree, paired walking poles are a modern fashion item invention ... a sort of diversification of skiing poles - they seemed to appear when hype-marketing worked out that they could persuade people to wear a different expensive costume for each activity

David, I've been meaning to ask you where you got that smart-looking "safari" style khaki shirt and matching hat in your profile pic?

 

[SeaHorse]

I find the original post highly offensive to the people who do need additional stability and support even if they don't know the correct way to use the poles, they can learn.
Thank you, forum members, who managed to turn this into fun thread. Agree with

Yikes, I thought this was a fun thread. I’m out of here.

 

[Turga]

Not just subjectively, but objectively. There are lots of data supporting this (that two poles are more effective than one).

I think it will always be a subjective matter in the sense, that people prefer to use what they feel works for them. A certain ‘placebo-effect’ cannot be entirely ruled out. And I think that is the way to go. The number of cases when time has proved experts to be wrong are countless. I am not saying you shouldn’t listen to expert’s advice, but you should always be the final judge of what is right for you.

 

[HedaP]

I find the original post highly offensive to the people who do need additional stability and support even if they don't know the correct way to use the poles, they can learn.
Thank you, forum members, who managed to turn this into fun thread. Agree with

Hi SeaHorse

I am sorry that you feel like that. Its not at all a nice way to feel. I don’t believe it was the OPs intention to cause offense but it is clear that has been the result for you and maybe others.

All you can do on this forum is be true to yourself and try not to worry too much about other people’s opinions because we are in this together and somehow or other we have to get along.

And believe me, you are not the only one who will be happily using walking poles on the camino.

PS. Great forum name.

 

[David]

Not just subjectively, but objectively. There are lots of data supporting this (that two poles are more effective than one).

When people try to tell me why my poles don't help me, it reminds me of when people in boots tell me I shouldn't be walking in sandals. Numerous times on the Camino, people have told me that I am bound to get gravel stuck in them, that my toes are not protected, that I must get cold, that I should have more ankle support, that the straps will rub against my skin, etc. etc.

And then I see many of them later in the albergue with tape all over their toes, Compeed over blisters on their heels, boots on the shelf, caked in mud. And in the morning I see them slathering Vaseline or sprinkling powder on their feet, re-doing their elaborate foot-taping system and pinning their still-damp socks to the back of their packs.

I put on my sandals and go.

Yes, this isn't about poles, but it's just another example of the pointlessness of telling other people what should work for them or not. (An exception is the fact that there is something wrong with people who prefer sweet red wine over dry).

I have SO had this so many times, boots versus sandals - I love my Keen Newport sandals and never ever ever have foot problems, wet or dry!
The fab shirt (I have two of them) came from a UK chain, Mountain Warehouse, and were under ten pounds each in the sale. The hat, which is Australian and perfect for the Camino, I found in a charity shop for - 50 pence I think!!

(I SO agree with you that red wine must be dry!!!).

p.s. just want to say again that my 'anti' is not meant to insult paired poles users, nor folk with any sort of disability. I use a pole at times - my 'anti' is merely the ineffective clicking along on level terrain

 

[JillGat]

My opinions on paired walking poles used on easy terrain is merely my own opinion, it isn't meant to insult users, just my opinion.
As for fashion - fashion isn't just about skinny models on catwalks. Perhaps that with English English we have a more subtle language over here? In the UK each year we have a huge motor show where the latest cars are displayed, the latest fashion presented.

Not many decades ago if someone went cycling they wore their normal daily clothes, even in races. The same goes for hiking, hikers used to wear an old suit and carry any old canvas bag. Then the fashion industry - broadly meant here - got involved and started designing specialist clothing and kit for each activity and now it is the norm to wear specialist fashion items for each activity. One can tell it is fashion for two reasons, the first is that it is unnecessary, the second is that 'what is right' changes year by year.
don't get me wrong - I wear specialist Keens hiking sandals and they are marvellous - but each year they change them slightly, usually just the colours .. they update them as fashion items.

I wear the same 'Camino' sandals at home, the same 'Camino' lightweight 'outdoor' shirts and shorts, so, if pairs of poles are so brilliant and effective and necessary then why do I never see them used by people going shopping or walking to the bank? I walk to shops and carry my shopping home in a backpack and I am sure many of us do the same, and I see many clothed, like me, in 'outdoor' lightweights - but I never see poles - so if they are so brilliant and effective and necessary why is that?

What frustrates me about this thread is those here who still insist there is no evidence that poles are useful, when used correctly. Apparently they refuse to follow the links we have provided that show ample scientific evidence along with reviews by renown long distance walkers and mountaineers. You can have your opinion about whether you like poles for yourself or not (though if you haven't given them a thorough try, your opinion isn't based on much). But there is no reason to keep posting mis-information about walking poles when valid information is available.

 

[JillGat]

Here's an excerpt from www.pacerpoles.com/faq:

WHY USE POLES?
Even after evolving to become bipeds, your arms will automatically switch to walking-mode when they haven’t anything to do; but if they dangle for too long your hands become stiff, swollen and uncomfortable. They need to be used. Power from the familiar arm-swing above your legs represents a natural-walking-resource as it thrusts back against the air. Until now, the problem has been one of inefficient control of this extra power during transmission between your arm, the pole and the ground, resulting in inferior performance. This gives grounds for the stigma often attached to poles of all kinds - that they’re a means of "last resort".
Pacerpoles are different; they are designed from first principles to access maximum arm power. The design started without the constraints of modifying something already existing – unlike that of conventional walking or trekking pole designs, based on modified ski poles and a wooden staff. Instead, Pacerpoles resulted from extensive anatomical and biomechanical research, designed to integrate with the hand as a contoured platform for controlling your arm’s power transmission; you continue to walk-tall with the bonus of increased stability, support and thrust. Accessing your arm’s power so efficiently to boost overall walking and endurance levels means that even the fittest biped’s performance can improve. You become an extremely effective "Double-biped"! (Where the axis of movement remains around the vertical instead of reverting to the horizontal axis of quadrupedal gait.)

WHY USE TWO POLES?
With each stride the top half of your body twists on the bottom half – so the right hand comes forward with the left leg, then the left hand and right leg move through. This means that the thrust from each arm/leg combination balances the other to improve overall performance. Using two poles can improve your dynamic stability (safety benefit) as there is always a minimum of one foot + one pole on the ground making it easier to establish a well balanced stride rhythm especially over rough ground, variable terrain and long distances.
You reduce your efficiency if the right pole and right leg move together, as your weight sways over to that side, then over to the left side as your left pole and leg have moved through. This ‘sway’ minimises the potential benefits of using two poles.
--------------------------

Besides the scientific explanations, I am convinced by the endorsements by many well known distance hikers and mountaineers who do a lot more hefty walking than we do on the Camino, but whose experience still applies.

 

[Turga]

it's just another example of the pointlessness of telling other people what should work for them or not.

Exactly!

 

[David Tallan]

...there is something wrong with people who prefer sweet red wine over dry.

If it was supposed to be dry, it wouldn't be a liquid.

 

[David]

JillGat - that "scientific information" is provided by the very people who sell the poles - what else do you expect them to say?

The original question was "Emperor's new clothes in stick form?" and the answer is Yes, absolutely!!

 

[Kieran Kenneally]

My reply above didn't print what I was trying to say was great post JillGat your an education ell explained

 

[JillGat]

JillGat - that "scientific information" is provided by the very people who sell the poles - what else do you expect them to say?

The original question was "Emperor's new clothes in stick form?" and the answer is Yes, absolutely!!

The Pacer Pole company came up with their pole design based in part on information from unbiased scientific studies, such as:
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.501.6597&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Effects of walking poles on lower extremity gait mechanics

JOHN WILLSON, MICHAEL R. TORRY, MICHAEL J. DECKER, THOMAS KERNOZEK, and J. R. STEADMAN Department of Physical Therapy, University of Wisconsin-LaCrosse, LaCrosse, WI; and Biomechanics Research Laboratory, Steadman-Hawkins Sports Medicine Foundation, Vail, CO ABSTRACT WILLSON, J., M. R. TORRY, M. J. DECKER, T. KERNOZEK, and J. R. STEADMAN.

Here is a review of some of the other literature supporting trekking poles from Backpacker magazine:

https://www.backpacker.com/gear/the-science-behind-trekking-poles

 

[JillGat]

If it was supposed to be dry, it wouldn't be a liquid.

Don't start.

 

[JillGat]

1. The title "..The Emperor's New Clothing" connotes that it is not a personal opinion, but that everyone else has been taken in by a concept that is totally fraudulent or fictional.

2. To describe the ways people use their poles "ineffectively" implies that there ARE effective ways to use them, which negates your point.

3. David: You are not just stating your personal opinion and not insulting others when you say that "using poles is foolish" and that they are "a complete waste of time." It sounds like your opinion is the only one that matters.

I rest my case, because I'm starting to take this too seriously!

 

[Deleted member 67185]

1. The title "..The Emperor's New Clothing" connotes that it is not a personal opinion, but that everyone else has been taken in by a concept that is totally fraudulent or fictional.

2. To describe the ways people use their poles "ineffectively" implies that there ARE effective ways to use them, which negates your point.

3. David: You are not just stating your personal opinion and not insulting others when you say that "using poles is foolish" and that they are "a complete waste of time." It sounds like your opinion is the only one that matters.

I rest my case, because I'm starting to take this too seriously!

The original post might have appeared to be a clever jab, but to me it was a passive-aggressive put down from a viewpoint that those who use trekking poles have no legitimate reason for doing so. As you have stated, such is an opinion, not fact. Those who persist in deciding that trekking poles are faddish and of no practical use to anyone because they don't care for them, are simply behaving in a boorish and condescending manner.

I don't get it. From what stems this irritable bowel movement of displeasure toward those who use a pair of poles? This thread probably should have been shut down a while ago.

 

[JillGat]

I think it will always be a subjective matter in the sense, that people prefer to use what they feel works for them. A certain ‘placebo-effect’ cannot be entirely ruled out. And I think that is the way to go. The number of cases when time has proved experts to be wrong are countless. I am not saying you shouldn’t listen to expert’s advice, but you should always be the final judge of what is right for you.

So all the science about trekking poles is wrong.
All the people who experience a benefit from poles are imagining it.
And you are right.
Sounds like a reasonable conclusion to me!

 

[Kanga]

Thread closed.