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The OP gave a one-sided opinion (he doesn't need poles and others shouldn't either) and asked others to respond, by asking what is the point of walking poles. We have answered his question with enthusiasm. The thread has emerged as an entertaining pole poll, and the results are clearly one sided. That doesn't make them disrespectful.It should be about respecting the other persons choice, right? Well it's not. This is a very one sided conversation.
I don't like trekking poles..
I *still* think others look idiotic with their poles. But not me!
I use Poles all the time especialy for painting jobs. If you want a job well done and effciently just hire a Polish person they work hard and walk rings around the oppositionI fail to see the purpose in mocking people who use poles
I admire @stgcph for entering the fray with the only defensible reason for the anti-poll lobby.
... In your categories of pole user styles, you forgot "the Spider". That's the one who extends the sticks out alternately in front of them and walks toward them, which mostly negates their usefulness.
...
I don't like trekking poles...
I loved the humor in your post and I agree most people don't use them correctly. However my poles have prevented many a slip and or fall going down hill and at 72 a fall can be serious. . Also my arms get exercise as they help me climb by pushing on the poles at an angle . Using poles correctly also prevents those swollen fingers some people get. Too bad people don't know how useful they are or how annoying the click is on side walk and paved road.Walking Caminos not only marked my retirement, . they were also the point I returned to the long distance hikes of my youth. Of course I have travelled inbetween times but maybe more as an independent tourist as opposed to a traveller.
Nothing much had changed in the interim apart from the fact that I soon became aware (on the Frances) of an almost constant "clicking" sound when in front or behind groups or individuals. This was of course the intrusive sound of metal tipped walking poles being slammed onto rocks, tarmac and paving slabs. I also watched as people used the poles in situations where (elderly) locals were walking completely unaided ie. across flat plazas. Bizarre.
As I watched these poles in action it soon became obvious that they were being used in numerous different ways and given that I almost always walked past the people using them by natural pace I got to asking myself "what is the point of walking poles".
I googled "how to use Walking Poles" so appreciate that there is a semblance of technique behind using the things in some circumstances but most of the people I saw seemed to have missed the point. Do the poles come with instructions ? In fact I only ever saw one person using them in any sort of way that seemed to fit what I had read - and even then, rest assured, the poles spent most of the time attached to his back-pack.
My own observational user guide:
1.The Swinger (thought this would grab your attention). Ensure that on the back swing the poles on both sides are swung out at an angle from the body approaching 45 degrees so as to ensure that when you do hit someone you get the lower leg as opposed to the more muscular upper part.
2. The Kerb Grater. Works on one side only depends on what side of the road you are walking on. Ensure that the metal tip rasps down the outside of the kerb before hitting the tarmac this ensuring the noise is maximised. This technique also requires that you be in a trance like state that prevents you from moving sideways to the degree needed to avoid hitting the kerb
3. The Pusher. First ensure that the poles are low enough (below waist height) so that you push down on them rather that pull down on them. This ensures that whatever effort you use is directed straight down. What this achieves is anyones guess.
4. The Skier (my favorite). Obvious really, use both polls in tandem as in skiing but without the snow. I have (without poles) tried to replicate this with my arms whilst trying to walk normally. I failed , it's actually quite difficult as it is not a natural walking rhythm, so hats off to anyone who has this move perfected.
5. The Slammer. Completely flat road/track/paved plaza required here. Slam the, preferably metal tipped, poles hard down to produce the loudest noise possible. Then present an appearence of complete blissful ignorance as to the noise created versus any perceived material benefit.
6. The Technician. As in "this looks dodgy, I think it's time to get the poles out". The poles were just going into use as I made the bottom of the slight hill and looked back to see what progress these technical aids had provided the user. Answer very little but he did at least look like he knew what he was doing.
7. The Pointer. Best seen in Santiago walking in front of the cathedral. Walks across plaza (still using poles) then randomly points out to companion some elevated feature seemingly oblivious to the fact that attached to the end of their hand was 4 foot + of pointy stick. The speed of this move was awesome.
7. The Golfer. Uses a number 7 golf club in place of a stick. Obviously accessed the wrong Camino user forum. Suprisingly seemed to benefit from the added weight, grip and amount of area in contact with the ground.
8. OK I made the last one up .
So I have to ask what is the point of these ergonomically handled, aircraft grade carbon fibre, collapsible, cool coloured and expensive walking sticks. I feel qualified to ask having walked nearly 4K klm with at least 8Kg pack over many gradients, surfaces and in various temperatures in the last 2 years without poles and never feeling the need for poles. The pilgrims I met without poles also shared all if not most of the same opinions as well. Someone has made a lot of money from these things. I have some very expensive glass hammers and sky hooks for sale if anyone is interested !
Yes David. You have to push down hard on them! That's precisely where most people go wrong. Newton's 3rd law of motion and all thatI have tried to test it, with scales and would estimate I'm putting 10-15 kg downward pressure on them going up hills, and 5-10 kg on the flat. On the flat they push me forward and keep me more upright.
Coming down hills they are merely acting as brakes and I'm leaning hard on them to take the weight off my shins. I find that my shins really suffer going downhill. They take about 20-30 kg pressure going downhill. I wore out a pair on my first Camino.......
I demonstrated to my wife the pressure required, by putting my hand on top of hers in the pole loop. She was quite shocked. But then found it worked..........
If the user is not 'serious' about using them in terms of the downward pressure required, I'd say they are pointless. No benefit whatsoever. Maybe balance....
You surprise me David. You're normally so wise on all things Camino
Too funny...love it!Don Camillo beware!
Not loving the poles is frowned upon on the forum and might make Your posts disappear.
I would say I know from experience but I have no post to show as proof.
Tears of laughter roll down my cheeks every time I look at "The Ministry of Silly Walks." One can only imagine what "Monty Python" could have done with the use and misuse of poles.I enjoyed reading your observational guide Don Camillo and thought what a great "Monty Python" sketch it would have made, similar to one of my favourites "The Ministry of Silly Walks"
I couldn't agree more, my poles were my constant companions. I bought new rubber "tap ons" at Pamplona from Caminoteca...but they wore thru by Santiago. I think Don Camillo is pulling our leg as they say in Australia...poles are essential for anyone with gammy knees, and oh, by the way in 2 weeks I get a new total knee replacement and after that look forwards to my Camino No.3 (with my poles of course)I have used my Pacer Poles every day of every walk. They have saved my knees, not to mention my life. Someone tried to buy them off me in the middle of France one year - name any price! - and I refused. So yes, I find mine indispensable.
I aWalking Caminos not only marked my retirement, . they were also the point I returned to the long distance hikes of my youth. Of course I have travelled inbetween times but maybe more as an independent tourist as opposed to a traveller.
Nothing much had changed in the interim apart from the fact that I soon became aware (on the Frances) of an almost constant "clicking" sound when in front or behind groups or individuals. This was of course the intrusive sound of metal tipped walking poles being slammed onto rocks, tarmac and paving slabs. I also watched as people used the poles in situations where (elderly) locals were walking completely unaided ie. across flat plazas. Bizarre.
As I watched these poles in action it soon became obvious that they were being used in numerous different ways and given that I almost always walked past the people using them by natural pace I got to asking myself "what is the point of walking poles".
I googled "how to use Walking Poles" so appreciate that there is a semblance of technique behind using the things in some circumstances but most of the people I saw seemed to have missed the point. Do the poles come with instructions ? In fact I only ever saw one person using them in any sort of way that seemed to fit what I had read - and even then, rest assured, the poles spent most of the time attached to his back-pack.
My own observational user guide:
1.The Swinger (thought this would grab your attention). Ensure that on the back swing the poles on both sides are swung out at an angle from the body approaching 45 degrees so as to ensure that when you do hit someone you get the lower leg as opposed to the more muscular upper part.
2. The Kerb Grater. Works on one side only depends on what side of the road you are walking on. Ensure that the metal tip rasps down the outside of the kerb before hitting the tarmac this ensuring the noise is maximised. This technique also requires that you be in a trance like state that prevents you from moving sideways to the degree needed to avoid hitting the kerb
3. The Pusher. First ensure that the poles are low enough (below waist height) so that you push down on them rather that pull down on them. This ensures that whatever effort you use is directed straight down. What this achieves is anyones guess.
4. The Skier (my favorite). Obvious really, use both polls in tandem as in skiing but without the snow. I have (without poles) tried to replicate this with my arms whilst trying to walk normally. I failed , it's actually quite difficult as it is not a natural walking rhythm, so hats off to anyone who has this move perfected.
5. The Slammer. Completely flat road/track/paved plaza required here. Slam the, preferably metal tipped, poles hard down to produce the loudest noise possible. Then present an appearence of complete blissful ignorance as to the noise created versus any perceived material benefit.
6. The Technician. As in "this looks dodgy, I think it's time to get the poles out". The poles were just going into use as I made the bottom of the slight hill and looked back to see what progress these technical aids had provided the user. Answer very little but he did at least look like he knew what he was doing.
7. The Pointer. Best seen in Santiago walking in front of the cathedral. Walks across plaza (still using poles) then randomly points out to companion some elevated feature seemingly oblivious to the fact that attached to the end of their hand was 4 foot + of pointy stick. The speed of this move was awesome.
7. The Golfer. Uses a number 7 golf club in place of a stick. Obviously accessed the wrong Camino user forum. Suprisingly seemed to benefit from the added weight, grip and amount of area in contact with the ground.
8. OK I made the last one up .
So I have to ask what is the point of these ergonomically handled, aircraft grade carbon fibre, collapsible, cool coloured and expensive walking sticks. I feel qualified to ask having walked nearly 4K klm with at least 8Kg pack over many gradients, surfaces and in various temperatures in the last 2 years without poles and never feeling the need for poles. The pilgrims I met without poles also shared all if not most of the same opinions as well. Someone has made a lot of money from these things. I have some very expensive glass hammers and sky hooks for sale if anyone is interested !
I appreciate my walking poles. They have prevented me falling many times over the years. I mostly use rubber covers over the metal tips. Stops the noise and helps limit erosion as the thicker rubber ends are less likely to leave holes which fill with water and contribute to erosion.Walking Caminos not only marked my retirement, . they were also the point I returned to the long distance hikes of my youth. Of course I have travelled inbetween times but maybe more as an independent tourist as opposed to a traveller.
Nothing much had changed in the interim apart from the fact that I soon became aware (on the Frances) of an almost constant "clicking" sound when in front or behind groups or individuals. This was of course the intrusive sound of metal tipped walking poles being slammed onto rocks, tarmac and paving slabs. I also watched as people used the poles in situations where (elderly) locals were walking completely unaided ie. across flat plazas. Bizarre.
As I watched these poles in action it soon became obvious that they were being used in numerous different ways and given that I almost always walked past the people using them by natural pace I got to asking myself "what is the point of walking poles".
I googled "how to use Walking Poles" so appreciate that there is a semblance of technique behind using the things in some circumstances but most of the people I saw seemed to have missed the point. Do the poles come with instructions ? In fact I only ever saw one person using them in any sort of way that seemed to fit what I had read - and even then, rest assured, the poles spent most of the time attached to his back-pack.
My own observational user guide:
1.The Swinger (thought this would grab your attention). Ensure that on the back swing the poles on both sides are swung out at an angle from the body approaching 45 degrees so as to ensure that when you do hit someone you get the lower leg as opposed to the more muscular upper part.
2. The Kerb Grater. Works on one side only depends on what side of the road you are walking on. Ensure that the metal tip rasps down the outside of the kerb before hitting the tarmac this ensuring the noise is maximised. This technique also requires that you be in a trance like state that prevents you from moving sideways to the degree needed to avoid hitting the kerb
3. The Pusher. First ensure that the poles are low enough (below waist height) so that you push down on them rather that pull down on them. This ensures that whatever effort you use is directed straight down. What this achieves is anyones guess.
4. The Skier (my favorite). Obvious really, use both polls in tandem as in skiing but without the snow. I have (without poles) tried to replicate this with my arms whilst trying to walk normally. I failed , it's actually quite difficult as it is not a natural walking rhythm, so hats off to anyone who has this move perfected.
5. The Slammer. Completely flat road/track/paved plaza required here. Slam the, preferably metal tipped, poles hard down to produce the loudest noise possible. Then present an appearence of complete blissful ignorance as to the noise created versus any perceived material benefit.
6. The Technician. As in "this looks dodgy, I think it's time to get the poles out". The poles were just going into use as I made the bottom of the slight hill and looked back to see what progress these technical aids had provided the user. Answer very little but he did at least look like he knew what he was doing.
7. The Pointer. Best seen in Santiago walking in front of the cathedral. Walks across plaza (still using poles) then randomly points out to companion some elevated feature seemingly oblivious to the fact that attached to the end of their hand was 4 foot + of pointy stick. The speed of this move was awesome.
7. The Golfer. Uses a number 7 golf club in place of a stick. Obviously accessed the wrong Camino user forum. Suprisingly seemed to benefit from the added weight, grip and amount of area in contact with the ground.
8. OK I made the last one up .
So I have to ask what is the point of these ergonomically handled, aircraft grade carbon fibre, collapsible, cool coloured and expensive walking sticks. I feel qualified to ask having walked nearly 4K klm with at least 8Kg pack over many gradients, surfaces and in various temperatures in the last 2 years without poles and never feeling the need for poles. The pilgrims I met without poles also shared all if not most of the same opinions as well. Someone has made a lot of money from these things. I have some very expensive glass hammers and sky hooks for sale if anyone is interested !
You are absolutely right. I have edited my post! I must say, however, that I have my doubts about the telephone poles.Thank you. But I think you are quoting me a little out of context here. I am not in any lobby. As far as I am concerned people can walk with trekking poles, homemade wooden sticks, telephone poles or a fish in each hand – whatever make them happy.
Ah - but Robo, I read your post and find that you actually agree with me!
apart from providing excellent and necessary stability in certain conditions they are useless as the scales don't change unless one exerts serious downward pressure - so where do we disagree??????
They are great, sometimes indispensable, for safety and stability on truly rough, mud-soft, or steep ground .. so much better to be a triped than a biped - but apart from that they are a complete waste of time -
The main support I have heard for them is that they remove weight from the legs and feet - really? Ok, stand on your bathroom scales and see how very very very hard you have to push down to alter the reading on the scale - they just don't work.
So there my opinion! ... though, they are very good for pointing at things
I am sure proponents of 'free climbing' also probably look at other climbers that use traditional pitons and ropes for mountain climbing as being something to pity and mock as well.
What ever works for each pilgrim is fine. What is not as fine is mocking other pilgrims equipment choices or technique just because it is not your own preferred way to go about it.
When it has a metal tip, the noise is prominent. Rather than be irritated, I stop for a long drink of water. The same thing works for cell phone call and chattering magpies.some guy had purchased an oversized wooden staff and has no idea how to use it properly, so persisted in dragging it noisily behind him.
If it is fashion, why don't we see them on the runway or the streets of New York and Hollywood? Since they are found on hiking trails, I think they are more utilitarian than fashionable.paired walking poles are a modern fashion item invention
Simply not true for most users on the Camino. I would rather not have them, and I feel quite silly using them at home (so I don't, and THAT is for reasons of fashion!) Paired poles may be a modern invention but they are not fashion items!paired walking poles are a modern fashion item invention
Staffs also work well against Balrogs, Orcs, Goblins and Bad Wizards. I never walk in Middle Earth without at least one, and preferably, two....the staff goes back forever. The staff gives stability, which is all that is needed, and is traditionally also used as a good weapon, used as a quarter staff, for defence from animals and humans.
Subjectively, I have not found that to be the case. Having used both, I find trekking poles more efficient than a single walking pole.
I disagree, paired walking poles are a modern fashion item invention ... a sort of diversification of skiing poles - they seemed to appear when hype-marketing worked out that they could persuade people to wear a different expensive costume for each activity
Yikes, I thought this was a fun thread. I’m out of here.
Not just subjectively, but objectively. There are lots of data supporting this (that two poles are more effective than one).
Hi SeaHorseI find the original post highly offensive to the people who do need additional stability and support even if they don't know the correct way to use the poles, they can learn.
Thank you, forum members, who managed to turn this into fun thread. Agree with
Not just subjectively, but objectively. There are lots of data supporting this (that two poles are more effective than one).
When people try to tell me why my poles don't help me, it reminds me of when people in boots tell me I shouldn't be walking in sandals. Numerous times on the Camino, people have told me that I am bound to get gravel stuck in them, that my toes are not protected, that I must get cold, that I should have more ankle support, that the straps will rub against my skin, etc. etc.
And then I see many of them later in the albergue with tape all over their toes, Compeed over blisters on their heels, boots on the shelf, caked in mud. And in the morning I see them slathering Vaseline or sprinkling powder on their feet, re-doing their elaborate foot-taping system and pinning their still-damp socks to the back of their packs.
I put on my sandals and go.
Yes, this isn't about poles, but it's just another example of the pointlessness of telling other people what should work for them or not. (An exception is the fact that there is something wrong with people who prefer sweet red wine over dry).
My opinions on paired walking poles used on easy terrain is merely my own opinion, it isn't meant to insult users, just my opinion.
As for fashion - fashion isn't just about skinny models on catwalks. Perhaps that with English English we have a more subtle language over here? In the UK each year we have a huge motor show where the latest cars are displayed, the latest fashion presented.
Not many decades ago if someone went cycling they wore their normal daily clothes, even in races. The same goes for hiking, hikers used to wear an old suit and carry any old canvas bag. Then the fashion industry - broadly meant here - got involved and started designing specialist clothing and kit for each activity and now it is the norm to wear specialist fashion items for each activity. One can tell it is fashion for two reasons, the first is that it is unnecessary, the second is that 'what is right' changes year by year.
don't get me wrong - I wear specialist Keens hiking sandals and they are marvellous - but each year they change them slightly, usually just the colours .. they update them as fashion items.
I wear the same 'Camino' sandals at home, the same 'Camino' lightweight 'outdoor' shirts and shorts, so, if pairs of poles are so brilliant and effective and necessary then why do I never see them used by people going shopping or walking to the bank? I walk to shops and carry my shopping home in a backpack and I am sure many of us do the same, and I see many clothed, like me, in 'outdoor' lightweights - but I never see poles - so if they are so brilliant and effective and necessary why is that?
it's just another example of the pointlessness of telling other people what should work for them or not.
If it was supposed to be dry, it wouldn't be a liquid....there is something wrong with people who prefer sweet red wine over dry.
JillGat - that "scientific information" is provided by the very people who sell the poles - what else do you expect them to say?
The original question was "Emperor's new clothes in stick form?" and the answer is Yes, absolutely!!
If it was supposed to be dry, it wouldn't be a liquid.
1. The title "..The Emperor's New Clothing" connotes that it is not a personal opinion, but that everyone else has been taken in by a concept that is totally fraudulent or fictional.
2. To describe the ways people use their poles "ineffectively" implies that there ARE effective ways to use them, which negates your point.
3. David: You are not just stating your personal opinion and not insulting others when you say that "using poles is foolish" and that they are "a complete waste of time." It sounds like your opinion is the only one that matters.
I rest my case, because I'm starting to take this too seriously!
I think it will always be a subjective matter in the sense, that people prefer to use what they feel works for them. A certain ‘placebo-effect’ cannot be entirely ruled out. And I think that is the way to go. The number of cases when time has proved experts to be wrong are countless. I am not saying you shouldn’t listen to expert’s advice, but you should always be the final judge of what is right for you.
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