Spanish stumbling stones

[Bert45]

A Stolperstein is a ten-centimetre (3.9 in) concrete cube bearing a brass plate inscribed with the name and life dates of victims of Nazi extermination or persecution. Literally, it means 'stumbling stone' and metaphorically 'stumbling block'. The Stolpersteine project was initiated by the German artist Gunter Demnig in 1992. [Wikipedia]
In Pamplona I came across two similar plates at 63 Calle de la Estafeta. The plates were not brass, however, but probably stainless steel. They commemorated Lino Ojeta Irigoyen, shot in Pamplona 14-08-1936, aged 38, and Casildo Ojeta Irigoyen, murdered in Artica 28-08-1936, aged 29.
These people were obviously murdered during the Spanish Civil War, and therefore not victims of Nazi extermination. I cannot think of a better place to ask than here on the Camino Forum. My questions are: What are these plates (presumably attached to a 10-cm concrete cube) called in Spanish? When did the project to commemorate victims of the Spanish Civil War begin? Who initiated the project? How many plates have been placed so far? How many more are there to be?
If you don't know the answers, but know of a better possible source for the answers, please let me know.

 

[David Tallan]

Just reminding people of Rule #2 before the conversation gets started:

2) No discussions on religion, bullfights, sports and politics. These topics often lead to unpleasant arguments, so let’s not go there. It is true that the Camino and religion are closely related, so some leeway will be given.

As we know, discussions of the Civil War can quickly become fraught. Let's tread carefully.

 

[peregrina2000]

Very interesting, time to dig for some historical background. It looks to me like there are two understandings of what the solpersteine represents in Spain. According to wikipedia, the solpersteines were placed to remember the deaths of Republicans who fled Spain and were captured by the Nazis, most usually in Vichy France. More than several thousand were killed. This article confirms that the idea behind the solpersteines in Spain was to remember the deaths of those Spaniards killed by the Nazis in concentration camps, etc. Not only Jews, but political exiles, and those who were deported. Apparently many Spaniards died in the camps in Mauthausen o Gusen. That seems consistent with how you described the solpersteine, @Bert45 . The wikipedia article does not mention the stones in Pamplona — you can see pictures of some of the plaques there, and they describe deaths in concentration camps.

What I find for Pamplona, though, seems to be a wider understanding of the term. Pamplona has 130 of them, described very thoroughly here. It seems like the plaques in Pamplona commemorate the deaths of victims of the Franco regime, and are not limited to deaths directly at the hands of the Nazis.

 

[dick bird]

You can see monuments in France commemorating Resistance members killed during World War 2 and in Chile commemorating victims of Pinochet´s regime, and no doubt in other countries to the victims of other regimes. You can also see plaques on the wall of Spanish churches commemorating the deaths of Nationalist or regular soldiers killed during the Civil War with the word ¡Presentes!. Memorials commemorating Republicans are obviously more recent, for example, at Alto de Perdón, but they are not uncommon. When the practice of commemorating Republicans began is a much harder question, in many cases it seems to be a local initiative. Spain is still struggling to come to terms with the Civil War and it is still a controversial, often sensitive topic in Spain, Manuel Rivas, Javier Cercas and Pedro Almodóvar and many others have all tried to deal with it.

If you respond to this post, please do so respectfully, neutrally, and as far as possible, objectively.

 

[Tincatinker]

This meandering thread may offer some insight into those times and the challenges of remembering and forgetting: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...-marcos-the-parador-in-leon.68599/post-875820

 

[Rebekah Scott]

there are plenty of sites all along the camino where atrocities were committed... the beautiful cloister at the Parador of San Marcos in Leon was an open-air prison during the Civil War, hundreds of people died there. The building that housed the Leon municipal pilgrim hostel back when I walked in 2001 overlooked the playing fields where citizens with the wrong beliefs were executed by firing squad. Cemetery walls all along the ways were pock-marked from gunfire, but most have been plastered-over now. I also recall an elaborate park on the outskirts of Logrono dedicated to the glory of Franco. It's long gone now, covered in new housing blocks. It's hard to find anyone willing to remember it.
But the winners' generals are still memorialized in the names of streets and plazas, especially in rural Spain. THe deep wooded valleys alongside El Acebo were home to Maquis, guerrilla fighters, right up through the 1950s. The Camino de Madrid, the Via de la Plata, Camino de la Lana, almost all of the Basque country and Asturias... tons of history and violence. The war was everywhere.
And now it's all but disappeared.

 

[Kathar1na]

Below is a link to the association Affna36 who initiated the project El Tropezón - Proyecto Stolpersteine in Pamplona.

These small plaques on the ground want to "attract the attention of pedestrians to the places where victims of Franco's repression lived", as it says on their website.

https://affna36.org/el-adoquin-tropezon-proyecto-stolpersteine-los-adoquines-dorados/

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

The Stolpersteine project was initiated by the German artist Gunter Demnig in 1992.

His best-known project is the Stolpersteine campaign (memorials for all victims of National Socialism) that he initiated.

1990 - Campaign in Cologne in memory of the deportation of Sinti and Roma
1993 - Design of the Stolpersteine campaign
1996 and 1997 - First (more or less illegal) Stolpersteine in Berlin-Kreuzberg and Cologne
2000 - The official start of the Stolpersteine Project

In my birthtown Dordrecht they started in 2014 and ended in 2023 with laying 199 Stolpersteine.
The last four Stolpersteine.

 

[Silvermomma]

Thank you all for this interesting information.

 

[peregrina2000]

This meandering thread may offer some insight into those times and the challenges of remembering and forgetting: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...-marcos-the-parador-in-leon.68599/post-875820

For those of you who want to see the connection @Tincatinker was making between the two threads, look at post number 33 of that thread. Very chilling. I wonder if the new parador displays the plaque anywhere.

 

[lt56ny]

Very interesting, time to dig for some historical background. It looks to me like there are two understandings of what the solpersteine represents in Spain. According to wikipedia, the solpersteines were placed to remember the deaths of Republicans who fled Spain and were captured by the Nazis, most usually in Vichy France. More than several thousand were killed. This article confirms that the idea behind the solpersteines in Spain was to remember the deaths of those Spaniards killed by the Nazis in concentration camps, etc. Not only Jews, but political exiles, and those who were deported. Apparently many Spaniards died in the camps in Mauthausen o Gusen. That seems consistent with how you described the solpersteine, @Bert45 . The wikipedia article does not mention the stones in Pamplona — you can see pictures of some of the plaques there, and they describe deaths in concentration camps.

What I find for Pamplona, though, seems to be a wider understanding of the term. Pamplona has 130 of them, described very thoroughly here. It seems like the plaques in Pamplona commemorate the deaths of victims of the Franco regime, and are not limited to deaths directly at the hands of the Nazis.

As you know my dad fought in the Spanish Civil War. After the war he belonged to an organization that supported Republican veterans in need. He supported a man who was severely wounded who was living in a French state supported home for indigent French veterans. Interesting as they did have a few Republican veterans living there. We used to receive a newspaper in English that was called (if my memory serves me, Luche Libre). I remember them coming as a kid and many years later I found a couple and this organization was involved in memorials to dead Republican soldiers. I assume now it was these plaques, but can't be sure.
I have to add that the few times, and I mean few, that my father spoke of the war, he would always say I was NEVER a communist, I am a socialist, and I didn't walk in the parade or go to the rally in Madison Square Garden. In college I went to school in London for 8 months. When my dad dropped me off at Kennedy Airport the last thing he said was "Remember if you go to Spain I will never speak to you again". I said I know Dad, you have been telling me this for years. I promise and I didn't of course. Franco was still in power then. Hope this isn't controversial.

 

[peregrina2000]

Hope this isn't controversial.

We have had threads in which forum members recounted personal experiences. So long as we stick to facts and personal experiences, I think the thread can safely continue to navigate the minefields.

 

[David Tallan]

I, personally, would rather that this not turn into a thread about the Spanish Civil War, a subject which is, as I noted above, fraught. Instead, can we stick to discussion of these brass plaques?

 

[JerryStroebele]

A month ago I started my second attempt to read the 1096 page The Spanish Civil War by Hugh Thomas. I have read many histories of this tragic period for the Spanish people. This book is the definitive story. The first 186 pages detail all the social and political problems that lead to the civil war. Highly recommended to us non-Spaniards to try to understand WHY SO BRUTAL? Buen Camino

 

[LTfit]

A Stolperstein is a ten-centimetre (3.9 in) concrete cube bearing a brass plate inscribed with the name and life dates of victims of Nazi extermination or persecution. Literally, it means 'stumbling stone' and metaphorically 'stumbling block'. The Stolpersteine project was initiated by the German artist Gunter Demnig in 1992. [Wikipedia]
In Pamplona I came across two similar plates at 63 Calle de la Estafeta. The plates were not brass, however, but probably stainless steel. They commemorated Lino Ojeta Irigoyen, shot in Pamplona 14-08-1936, aged 38, and Casildo Ojeta Irigoyen, murdered in Artica 28-08-1936, aged 29.
These people were obviously murdered during the Spanish Civil War, and therefore not victims of Nazi extermination. I cannot think of a better place to ask than here on the Camino Forum. My questions are: What are these plates (presumably attached to a 10-cm concrete cube) called in Spanish? When did the project to commemorate victims of the Spanish Civil War begin? Who initiated the project? How many plates have been placed so far? How many more are there to be?
If you don't know the answers, but know of a better possible source for the answers, please let me know.
View attachment 177249

Very interesting to read about these plaques since I've never come across them during my Caminos in Spain, other memorials for fallen Republicans for sure, but not these. What I found of particular interest were the Republican bunkers along the Levante which you can visit. And of course the Museo de la Paz in Guernica on the Norte is a must.

In April of last year the first 9 Stolpersteine were placed in my town in The Netherlands, all Jews who had been deported from Camp Westerbork to Sobibor where they were executed. In fact Gunter Demnig was present during the ceremony.

 

[MarijkeB]

A Stolperstein is a ten-centimetre (3.9 in) concrete cube bearing a brass plate inscribed with the name and life dates of victims of Nazi extermination or persecution. Literally, it means 'stumbling stone' and metaphorically 'stumbling block'. The Stolpersteine project was initiated by the German artist Gunter Demnig in 1992. [Wikipedia]
In Pamplona I came across two similar plates at 63 Calle de la Estafeta. The plates were not brass, however, but probably stainless steel. They commemorated Lino Ojeta Irigoyen, shot in Pamplona 14-08-1936, aged 38, and Casildo Ojeta Irigoyen, murdered in Artica 28-08-1936, aged 29.
These people were obviously murdered during the Spanish Civil War, and therefore not victims of Nazi extermination. I cannot think of a better place to ask than here on the Camino Forum. My questions are: What are these plates (presumably attached to a 10-cm concrete cube) called in Spanish? When did the project to commemorate victims of the Spanish Civil War begin? Who initiated the project? How many plates have been placed so far? How many more are there to be?
If you don't know the answers, but know of a better possible source for the answers, please let me know.
View attachment 177249

Thank you for asking. I came across them today in Estafeta and was also wondering.

 

[Kathar1na]

Thank you for asking. I came across them today in Estafeta and was also wondering.

I guess that you mean the Calle Estafeta in Pamplona?

I've been looking at the interactive map on the website of the Affna36 association. There are apparently numerous spots marked by the plaques in this street. Others appear to be in the Calle Mayor where the Camino Francés passes through I think. Below is a screenshot and the link to the map.

In addition to Pamplona, there are also plaques on the pavement to remember the people who lived at that address and were murdered in 1936 in the Camino towns Estella, Obanos and Puente la Reina and in several other towns in Navarra.

Mapa con Filtros – AFFNA36.ORG

affna36.org

 

[Jeff Crawley]

A month ago I started my second attempt to read the 1096 page The Spanish Civil War by Hugh Thomas. I have read many histories of this tragic period for the Spanish people. This book is the definitive story. The first 186 pages detail all the social and political problems that lead to the civil war. Highly recommended to us non-Spaniards to try to understand WHY SO BRUTAL? Buen Camino

As is Anthony Beevor's The Battle for Spain (the revised edition) although trying to keep a clear understanding of the various alphabet soup of organisations is hard.

 

[Bert45]

Thanks to all the above. I have answers to all my questions. No.1 is ADOQUINES-TROPEZONES.
I would like to mention, for the avoidance of doubt, that these small plaques are flush with the pavement they are set in. They would not cause anybody to stumble. The explanation for the name can be found in the Wikipedia article: "The name of the Stolpersteine project invokes multiple allusions. In Nazi Germany, an antisemitic saying, when accidentally stumbling over a protruding stone, was: "A Jew must be buried here".[6][7] In a metaphorical sense, the German term Stolperstein can mean "potential problem".[8] The term "to stumble across something", in German and English, can also mean "to find out (by chance)".[9] Thus, the term provocatively invokes an antisemitic remark of the past, but at the same time intends to provoke thoughts about a serious issue."
I just read this: 35 Stolpersteine (stumbling stones) were laid in the Channel Islands to commemorate the victims and survivors of the Holocaust. Published 15 August 2024

 

[pelerine]

What I find for Pamplona, though, seems to be a wider understanding of the term. Pamplona has 130 of them, described very thoroughly here. It seems like the plaques in Pamplona commemorate the deaths of victims of the Franco regime, and are not limited to deaths directly at the hands of the Nazis.

Below is a link to the association Affna36 who initiated the project El Tropezón - Proyecto Stolpersteine in Pamplona.

These small plaques on the ground want to "attract the attention of pedestrians to the places where victims of Franco's repression lived", as it says on their website.

https://affna36.org/el-adoquin-tropezon-proyecto-stolpersteine-los-adoquines-dorados/

As the word says, Stolpersteine ie stumbling blocks, are not plaques set up to remind you of what happened, but stones in the pavement to make you stop in your walk and look and read, who was living here. I have seen them in Germany. Not having been to Pamplona I looked up the link in Peregrina2000 note with a photo of a Stolperstein indicating that here lived…….

 

[Bert45]

Peregrina2000's post has given rise to another question. AFFNA-NAFSE 36 stands forAsociación de Familiares de Fusilados de Navarra – Nafarroako Fusilatuen Senitartekoen Elkartea 1936, apparently. If I were giving the initial letters of this organisation in Spanish and Basque, I would write AFFN-NFSE 36. Why are there two extra As in the abbreviation? They could be there to make the abbreviations pronounceable, but I don't know.

 

[Kathar1na]

NA is the ISO code for Navarra and also for Nafarroa.

 

[Kathar1na]

As mentioned several times, the pavement stones in Pamplona are inspired by the Stolpersteine concept initiated by German artist Gunter Demnig. I am quoting from his English language website stolpersteine.eu because I find some points important.

Stolpersteine are commemorative brass plaques in the pavement to remember the victims of National Socialism and they are installed in front of their last address of choice.​

​

Gunter Demnig cites the Talmud saying that "a person is only forgotten when his or her name is forgotten".​

​

Contrary to what certain online sources claim, Gunter Demnig did NOT want to create a link to a certain anti-Semitic expression apparently used in Nazi Germany that he did not even know.​

​

I find this last point particularly important. Don't quote Wikipedia without looking at the source of some of their more dubious claims! And as mentioned in this thread, the stones are even with the pavement, you do not stumble physically. The idea is to make you stumble "with your head and your heart".

 

[BarbaraW]

Thank you, especially Katharine from whom I learn so much on this forum. I'd seen stolpersteine elsewhere in Europe, but didn't know the background.

 

[Hom4]

While walking the Camino Madrid, I took this photo of a stolpersteine not knowing at the time, the history of its placement. I was visiting the old Jewish Quarters.

 

[peregrina2000]

While walking the Camino Madrid, I took this photo of a stolpersteine not knowing at the time, the history of its placement. I was visiting the old Jewish Quarters.

Do you remember which town you were in, @Hom4?

I love the way the forum helps us see things that we’ve passed by before without paying any attention. I’ve walked so many caminos, I’m sure I have gone by many without a second thought. Next time I will pay more attention.

 

[Hom4]

I was in Segovia.

 

[Blintintin]

.. the beautiful cloister at the Parador of San Marcos in Leon was an open-air prison during the Civil War, hundreds of people died there.

Two of my Spanish uncles were imprisoned here at this time, for being UGT labour union members ( Union General de Trabajadores). Thankfully they were released and lived long lives .. one until age 90 and he had a very good sense of humor. You may know that the Parador now restricts entry to the cloister to hotel guests only. My uncle would joke that there was a time when the parador wouldn’t let him out … and then became a place they wouldn’t let him in.

 

[AnneMarie1]

I saw those while on the Aragonese route last year (I think in Sanguesa?) and found them very moving. As we stopped to read one of them, a guy came up and wanted to tell us about the man whose death was commemorated in the plaque. He had grown up in that house and knew the family. Really powerful experience to hear his story from this man!