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As we know, discussions of the Civil War can quickly become fraught. Let's tread carefully.2) No discussions on religion, bullfights, sports and politics. These topics often lead to unpleasant arguments, so let’s not go there. It is true that the Camino and religion are closely related, so some leeway will be given.
The Stolpersteine project was initiated by the German artist Gunter Demnig in 1992.
For those of you who want to see the connection @Tincatinker was making between the two threads, look at post number 33 of that thread. Very chilling. I wonder if the new parador displays the plaque anywhere.This meandering thread may offer some insight into those times and the challenges of remembering and forgetting: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...-marcos-the-parador-in-leon.68599/post-875820
As you know my dad fought in the Spanish Civil War. After the war he belonged to an organization that supported Republican veterans in need. He supported a man who was severely wounded who was living in a French state supported home for indigent French veterans. Interesting as they did have a few Republican veterans living there. We used to receive a newspaper in English that was called (if my memory serves me, Luche Libre). I remember them coming as a kid and many years later I found a couple and this organization was involved in memorials to dead Republican soldiers. I assume now it was these plaques, but can't be sure.Very interesting, time to dig for some historical background. It looks to me like there are two understandings of what the solpersteine represents in Spain. According to wikipedia, the solpersteines were placed to remember the deaths of Republicans who fled Spain and were captured by the Nazis, most usually in Vichy France. More than several thousand were killed. This article confirms that the idea behind the solpersteines in Spain was to remember the deaths of those Spaniards killed by the Nazis in concentration camps, etc. Not only Jews, but political exiles, and those who were deported. Apparently many Spaniards died in the camps in Mauthausen o Gusen. That seems consistent with how you described the solpersteine, @Bert45 . The wikipedia article does not mention the stones in Pamplona — you can see pictures of some of the plaques there, and they describe deaths in concentration camps.
What I find for Pamplona, though, seems to be a wider understanding of the term. Pamplona has 130 of them, described very thoroughly here. It seems like the plaques in Pamplona commemorate the deaths of victims of the Franco regime, and are not limited to deaths directly at the hands of the Nazis.
Hope this isn't controversial.
Very interesting to read about these plaques since I've never come across them during my Caminos in Spain, other memorials for fallen Republicans for sure, but not these. What I found of particular interest were the Republican bunkers along the Levante which you can visit. And of course the Museo de la Paz in Guernica on the Norte is a must.A Stolperstein is a ten-centimetre (3.9 in) concrete cube bearing a brass plate inscribed with the name and life dates of victims of Nazi extermination or persecution. Literally, it means 'stumbling stone' and metaphorically 'stumbling block'. The Stolpersteine project was initiated by the German artist Gunter Demnig in 1992. [Wikipedia]
In Pamplona I came across two similar plates at 63 Calle de la Estafeta. The plates were not brass, however, but probably stainless steel. They commemorated Lino Ojeta Irigoyen, shot in Pamplona 14-08-1936, aged 38, and Casildo Ojeta Irigoyen, murdered in Artica 28-08-1936, aged 29.
These people were obviously murdered during the Spanish Civil War, and therefore not victims of Nazi extermination. I cannot think of a better place to ask than here on the Camino Forum. My questions are: What are these plates (presumably attached to a 10-cm concrete cube) called in Spanish? When did the project to commemorate victims of the Spanish Civil War begin? Who initiated the project? How many plates have been placed so far? How many more are there to be?
If you don't know the answers, but know of a better possible source for the answers, please let me know.
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Thank you for asking. I came across them today in Estafeta and was also wondering.A Stolperstein is a ten-centimetre (3.9 in) concrete cube bearing a brass plate inscribed with the name and life dates of victims of Nazi extermination or persecution. Literally, it means 'stumbling stone' and metaphorically 'stumbling block'. The Stolpersteine project was initiated by the German artist Gunter Demnig in 1992. [Wikipedia]
In Pamplona I came across two similar plates at 63 Calle de la Estafeta. The plates were not brass, however, but probably stainless steel. They commemorated Lino Ojeta Irigoyen, shot in Pamplona 14-08-1936, aged 38, and Casildo Ojeta Irigoyen, murdered in Artica 28-08-1936, aged 29.
These people were obviously murdered during the Spanish Civil War, and therefore not victims of Nazi extermination. I cannot think of a better place to ask than here on the Camino Forum. My questions are: What are these plates (presumably attached to a 10-cm concrete cube) called in Spanish? When did the project to commemorate victims of the Spanish Civil War begin? Who initiated the project? How many plates have been placed so far? How many more are there to be?
If you don't know the answers, but know of a better possible source for the answers, please let me know.
View attachment 177249
I guess that you mean the Calle Estafeta in Pamplona?Thank you for asking. I came across them today in Estafeta and was also wondering.
As is Anthony Beevor's The Battle for Spain (the revised edition) although trying to keep a clear understanding of the various alphabet soup of organisations is hard.A month ago I started my second attempt to read the 1096 page The Spanish Civil War by Hugh Thomas. I have read many histories of this tragic period for the Spanish people. This book is the definitive story. The first 186 pages detail all the social and political problems that lead to the civil war. Highly recommended to us non-Spaniards to try to understand WHY SO BRUTAL? Buen Camino
What I find for Pamplona, though, seems to be a wider understanding of the term. Pamplona has 130 of them, described very thoroughly here. It seems like the plaques in Pamplona commemorate the deaths of victims of the Franco regime, and are not limited to deaths directly at the hands of the Nazis.
Below is a link to the association Affna36 who initiated the project El Tropezón - Proyecto Stolpersteine in Pamplona.
These small plaques on the ground want to "attract the attention of pedestrians to the places where victims of Franco's repression lived", as it says on their website.
Do you remember which town you were in, @Hom4?While walking the Camino Madrid, I took this photo of a stolpersteine not knowing at the time, the history of its placement. I was visiting the old Jewish Quarters.
Two of my Spanish uncles were imprisoned here at this time, for being UGT labour union members ( Union General de Trabajadores). Thankfully they were released and lived long lives .. one until age 90 and he had a very good sense of humor. You may know that the Parador now restricts entry to the cloister to hotel guests only. My uncle would joke that there was a time when the parador wouldn’t let him out … and then became a place they wouldn’t let him in... the beautiful cloister at the Parador of San Marcos in Leon was an open-air prison during the Civil War, hundreds of people died there.
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