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Not a clue presumably just friendly banter late in the evening but the point I was jokingly trying to make was that if you tell someone (me) they can't do something it just makes them do it!And was this a friend who had run the London Marathon earlier herself or himself? IOW, reasoned advice or just "thinking"?
I got that. The OP is, of course, not asking whether he can do it. He asks about "challenges I might be forgetting".Not a clue presumably just friendly banter late in the evening but the point I was jokingly trying to make was that if you tell someone (me) they can't do something it just makes them do it!
Yip, met two Ex-collegues last year after my CP. They did the Norte and one of them is a passionate ultra-marathon runner. He suffered almost since the start with different aches and problems on feet, legs and back.With a smile on his face he told me this and went on to say that after 100km hiking with backpack, his feet were destroyed. Marathon running and long distance hiking are quite different.
I thought he had received the information he required.I got that. The OP is, of course, not asking whether he can do it. He asks about "challenges I might be forgetting".
Please, everyone who wants to give your opinion, place your bet!But please keep it open, so we can read about the outcome
Maybe we could have a sweepstake?
What time will the OP arrive at Roncesvalles..........
Hi Kathar1na,We are having a bit of a cold snap in a large part of Europe. I heard from people living in Brighton on the south coast of England that they had hail the other day. And on the top of Route Napoleon in the Pyrenees between SJPP and Roncesvalles it will feel cool on this September Friday afternoon, too. Some may even call it chilly. And a bit windy now and then. The occasional wind gust of 50 km/h has a tendency to get noticed.
You hail from Brazil, @JonnyRosa. I guess that this is the kind of summer weather that you are familiar with, too?
Of course it will already be autumn when you walk and we do sometimes have weather that we call "Golden October". And I don't know about the Pyrenees but the Alps are known for being a great time to walk in September and early October because the view can reach so incredibly far when you are high up and the air is dry.
View attachment 177611
Source: Meteoblue. Predictability is medium.
You are so, so right. I stopped 'watching' this thread ages ago but I just couldn't help myself....Odd, these long threads, aren't they. One does not want to read a single word anymore about the thread's topic and yet one cannot help opening the thread again and again to see what has been posted since the last time one had a look ...
Hi Harland2019,I must admit that having received so many comments about why he should reconsider his proposed 1st day it reminds me of a conversation I had late on a New Year's Eve party when I said to someone I was considering running the London Marathon. A friend told me I couldn't do it, my wife replied don't ever tell him he couldn't do something! I did run (??) and completed it the following year.
Therefore, despite the advice, I would probably go ahead, thinking that I wouldn't hurt anyone else and was invincible. Whatever the outcome, if I survived, I would respond that it was a piece of cake ("easy" for non-English speakers) and I had time to shower, change and drink before the evening meal!
Hi Roland.Yip, met two Ex-collegues last year after my CP. They did the Norte and one of them is a passionate ultra-marathon runner. He suffered almost since the start with different aches and problems on feet, legs and back.
He said that the strains of running and walking are so different, that he was not really prepared for them.
HTH
Hi Peterexpatkiwi,You are so, so right. I stopped 'watching' this thread ages ago but I just couldn't help myself.....
@JonnyRosa , I do hope that you will post once you're on the Camino. Although I think you should open a new thread, 200 + posts and counting is kind of crazy!
Oh, he is fit in every aspect. Ex PT!Hi R
Hi Roland.
I'm not a fitness trainer, but I believe that running and walking work different muscle groups. Therefore, when these muscle groups are subjected to heavy load, they can cause pain and even injury.
Well this statement you just made tells me you’re going to do just fine on your Camino. Movie villains most often get their comeuppances due to their egos. And after reading all your responses on this thread, my sense is you will have no difficulty keeping yours in check. Can’t wait to read about your “first day” impressionsHi Harland2019,
In general, when people are challenged, they tend to receive it as a stimulus, as an extra dose of strength that drives them to achieve better results.
I myself, to this day, try to be very careful with this, and always think and plan without letting myself get sidetracked by both criticism and praise; because our own lives are only lived by ourselves.
@JonnyRosa, thank you for the courtesy but you really don't have to respond to all of us. You can simply put a like or a thank you if you wish (long hold the like button and you'll see multiple options)Hi Peterexpatkiwi,
I am a new member of the forum, and I confess that I have no idea if the post is too long, if it should be closed, much less how to close it, or even if this is a moderator's job.
I am really appreciating all the help that the members have offered me, and I try to respond to each one as best I can, because this is the least I can do in return for the time that each one offered me.
Thank you very much Peterexpatkiwi. Wise words.@JonnyRosa, thank you for the courtesy but you really don't have to respond to all of us. You can simply put a like or a thank you if you wish (long hold the like button and you'll see multiple options)
And don't worry about this post being too long, that's down to all of us. Should the moderators feel its served its purpose or gotten too crazy/ inappropriate answers etc, yes indeed they will close it.
Unfortunately some people can't be bothered to read the sometimes excellent advice from others ( which they could then respond to with a simple 'like' or 'thanks') and they post an answer to a question that has long since been answered.
I was simply meaning that I hope to hear about your journey once you're actually on Camino, and it would be a shame if it got lost in amongst everything else above.
Don't be afraid to ask another question should something arise for you, although I would strongly suggest posting it separately.
Most of us are on here because we're just envious of everybody else that's actually walking! And the next best thing to walking yourself is to help somebody else.
You will have plenty of opportunities to make friends later. Many people start from Roncesvalles, Pamplona, Burgos, León and farther on and manage to make friendships.What I found most interesting in this thread is the discussion of the socializing that happens in SJPDP and Roncesvalles. Will I be missing out on part of the experience if I skip that? I'm thinking I'll have plenty of time to make friends later,
Go for it! With the gear you're carrying, the experience you have, and that forecast - it would be a shame to miss search a wonderful opportunity.In fact I think I'll make sleeping somewhere near the pass my primary plan if weather allows
Thanks, @Peterexpatkiwi . You are correct on both points. We certainly have longer threads than this one. As long as the discussion is continuing more or less on-topic, in a constructive way, we don't close threads just because of length. (Here is a fun discussion of 460 posts.)@JonnyRosa, thank you for the courtesy but you really don't have to respond to all of us. You can simply put a like or a thank you if you wish (long hold the like button and you'll see multiple options)
And don't worry about this post being too long, that's down to all of us. Should the moderators feel its served its purpose or gotten too crazy/ inappropriate answers etc, yes indeed they will close it.
Odd link there @C clearlyThanks, @Peterexpatkiwi . You are correct on both points. We certainly have longer threads than this one. As long as the discussion is continuing more or less on-topic, in a constructive way, we don't close threads just because of length. (Here is a fun discussion of 460 posts.)
I think I have fixed the link to your classic thread!Odd link there @C clearly
There doesn’t appear to be an easily inserted “blush” emoji. So “blush”I think I have fixed the link to your classic thread!
That one has to be the longest threadOdd link there @C clearly
There are longer threads with over a thousand posts.That one has to be the longest thread!?
Perhaps so, but it depends on the purpose of the thread.but I think this thread is done.
My very long Camino from Home thread currently stands at 1,266 posts and 13 pages, and that's only because I made a separate thread for an intermediary 2024 Camino that really was part of the same Pilgrimage -- +175 posts ...That one has to be the longest thread!?
Forum threads, like the proverbial old soldiers, never die. They just fade away.That one has to be the longest thread!?
Hi jonnyIn early October, I plan to do the route from Sant Jean Pied de Port to Roncesvalles, leaving SJPP in the afternoon, around 2:30 p.m. I walk frequently and quickly, averaging 6 km/h. I would like to know if any of my colleagues have already done this route in the afternoon and what challenges I might be forgetting.
Hi Keith, Many thanks for your contribution.Hi jonny
You might be underestimating what you are facing in the 28km on that first stage.
The fastest I’ve wheats anyone walking to Roncesvalles is around 8hrs and that’s walking at just over 3km per hour. The gradient in parts is so acute you certainly won’t be able to achieve your top spread. Given you manage to maintain 3km per hour you’re still looking at 8hrs+ which means not arriving until after 9pm in the dark.
I suggest if you determined to start in the afternoon stop at Orisson or leave before midday to get in earlier.
Remember the darker it is the more dangerous it’s likely to be and god forbid the last thing you need is injuring yourself on the first day. Buen Camino Keith
That does so least have a beginning, a middle and an end!My very long Camino from Home thread currently stands at 1,266 posts and 13 pages, and that's only because I made a separate thread for an intermediary 2024 Camino that really was part of the same Pilgrimage -- +175 posts ...
There is more to consider than degree of incline or decline. You have to consider surface conditions and how they are affected by the weather (which is quite changeable with little or no warning). If you take the more direct route down from Alto de Lepoeder, the surface conditions will not allow you to safely maintain your normal stride. If you take the road, it will add miles to a day that you have already started very late.It's true Bradpus, walking on steep inclines is another matter. I intend to do the 15% incline section at 4.5 km/h; the 10% to 14% incline sections at 5 km/h and the 5% to 10% incline sections at 5.5 km/h; the rest I intend to do at 6 km/h.
Last day and the End of my Pilgrimage is tomorrow !!That does so least have a beginning, a middle and an end!
(On reflection, it has several of all three)
You may be overthinking this a bit.It's true Bradpus, walking on steep inclines is another matter. I intend to do the 15% incline section at 4.5 km/h; the 10% to 14% incline sections at 5 km/h and the 5% to 10% incline sections at 5.5 km/h; the rest I intend to do at 6 km/h.
Thank you very much for your advice MassNative.JonnyRosa you asked for advice, I will add mine. I am also a "street runner", an experinced New England Area hiker (used to climbing 5000 foot summits similar to Col Lepoeder). I found the unrelenting road climb to the Spain border to be very tiring. The sections that look flat, are uphill. Then you have the steep descent to Roncevalles over the last 4+ kms, while your legs are rubber, and under your plan, will be in twilight AT BEST! Any thing that causes you a time delay, will result in a dangerous descent.
I opted to break up that first stage by hiking to Croix Thibault, and taking the Mountain Shuttle back to SJPdP, Day 2 we shuttled back to Croix Thibault, then hiked to Burgette. A younger, fast walker than me could walk a few more villages day 2 and be further along.
You asked for advice.
Mine: Do not try it.
If you need to make up a day delay in your itinery, add 5-6 km per day later in your camino, on flater stages. Or start in Roncevalles instead of SJPdP. Or just start from Pamplona, since you are spending a night there already.
Whatever you do. Good Luck.
Weather conditions, with rain and winds, significantly affect the entire plan and will be taken into consideration. Many thanks lbrown498.There is more to consider than degree of incline or decline. You have to consider surface conditions and how they are affected by the weather (which is quite changeable with little or no warning). If you take the more direct route down from Alto de Lepoeder, the surface conditions will not allow you to safely maintain your normal stride. If you take the road, it will add miles to a day that you have already started very late.
Is it possible to catch an evening bus in Pamploma to Roncevelle, then taxi to St. Jean the day you arrive? Spend the night in SJPdP. Have your heavier bag transported to Roncevelles and walk there to meet it. You will have all day to race up and down the mountain.Hi Trecile,
You're right. I have a tight schedule. I'm already spending the night in Pamplona the day before, and I didn't want to spend the night in SJPP and only leave the next day. So I thought about leaving the same day I arrive in SJPP. Based on my planning, I think it's feasible, but I know there are risks. If the weather is bad, I'll definitely leave the next day.
Now, trying to answer your question as honestly as I can, I would say that the same impulse that is driving me to do the Camino de Santiago is what makes me do this stretch as soon as I arrive; I don't know the real reason.
Its a very difficult day. I think you should listen to all the experience on here. Genuinely don't think anyone advise against unless there weren't concerns for your safety and potentially the rescue team who might have to come find youTrue, I initially said 2:30 p.m. I have been adjusting my planning day by day. I will arrive by bus in SJPP at 1:45 p.m. and I didn't know exactly how long it would take to get to the beginning of the Napoleon route; now that I've reviewed my calculations, I believe I will start at 2:00 p.m. I am planning to walk the downhill part at 6 km/h.
I am very concerned about the brightness at the end of the route, and for safety reasons I am taking a headlamp.
I have no experience in hiking, so the help of colleagues with more experience is very important to me.
I am a street runner, with a lot of experience in running, over 20 years. I have been training for years to run 10 to 15 km regularly, and walking is very comfortable for me. I have been training with the weight/backpack in the steep conditions of this section and I have been doing well.
I'm sure the path will be more complex than the training, and that's exactly why I came to ask for help from anyone who has already done the stretch.
Thank you very much
Your choice is very smart Lizhk. I hadn't thought of this route. There is a bus at 7:00 pm from Pamplona to Roncesvalles.Is it possible to catch an evening bus in Pamploma to Roncevelle, then taxi to St. Jean the day you arrive? Spend the night in SJPdP. Have your heavier bag transported to Roncevelles and walk there to meet it. You will have all day to race up and down the mountain.
Why? comes to mind. Many of the joys of the camino are the people you meet and the scenery you get to see. You will miss both with this plan. I highly suggest you rethink this plan. First - you are setting yourself up for injury on your very first day if you are going to descend into Roncevelles in the dark. The rocks on a DRY day are tough, but would be very dangerous with a flashlight. Maybe I am reading too much into this - but you seem like you are in a hurry. My advice is to slow down and enjoy your journey. Don't be in a rush to get to the next location. The Camino has so much to teach if you, if you take the time to listen. Buen CaminoIn early October, I plan to do the route from Sant Jean Pied de Port to Roncesvalles, leaving SJPP in the afternoon, around 2:30 p.m. I walk frequently and quickly, averaging 6 km/h. I would like to know if any of my colleagues have already done this route in the afternoon and what challenges I might be forgetting.
The only service I know between Pamplona and Roncesvalles is via Autocares Artieda. Their 2024 schedule has a bus leaving Pamplona at 13:30 Mondays through Friday and 16:00 on Saturdays.Your choice is very smart Lizhk. I hadn't thought of this route. There is a bus at 7:00 pm from Pamplona to Roncesvalles.
I thought the second part of your post was spot-on. "evaluate ... adjust" BUT with the proviso of starting cautiously for a few days and then increasing effort until you reach your limit, if you want to.So is the second day. If your calves and shins are screaming by the time Roncesvalles is reached, you are human.
One more thing to consider: the people who will go at risk on the mountain to find you if something happens and you need to call for help. Is your desire to rush through one of the most beautiful parts of the Camino worth putting the rescue service personnel in danger?In early October, I plan to do the route from Sant Jean Pied de Port to Roncesvalles, leaving SJPP in the afternoon, around 2:30 p.m. I walk frequently and quickly, averaging 6 km/h. I would like to know if any of my colleagues have already done this route in the afternoon and what challenges I might be forgetting.
Many buses to Roncesvalles only run during the Summer period.Your choice is very smart Lizhk. I hadn't thought of this route. There is a bus at 7:00 pm from Pamplona to Roncesvalles.
Hi thereIn early October, I plan to do the route from Sant Jean Pied de Port to Roncesvalles, leaving SJPP in the afternoon, around 2:30 p.m. I walk frequently and quickly, averaging 6 km/h. I would like to know if any of my colleagues have already done this route in the afternoon and what challenges I might be forgetting.
If he gets that far, then he should have no problem. Both times I went through there, I was young and fit and as fast a walker as OP.I did this route in June and there are several sections on the Napoleon route which are like descending on marble, super slippery and steep and through forest. We did them on our bums. They come at the end and If it's raining and getting dark I wouldn't recommend it. One guy was helicoptered off after breaking his leg.
Skill and ability are two completely different things -- just personally, without the skills that I have acquired over the decades, a foot pilgrimage would be impossible for me due to my disability. But someone healthy can acquire the needed skills, especially on such a well infrastructured route as the Francès.Otherwise it's totally doable for anyone with moderate walking skills.
I was up there in August, and "don't go that way" crossed waymarkers are clearly visible. Sad that you missed them and took that wrong turn !!We also added 6km onto our journey as we stayed on the main path at the cross and so veered left. Don't do that! At the cross go almost straight over the grassy area. Several pilgrims did the same as us and we ended up walking 34km that day!!
Why? You will arrive in the dark. That is dangerous and you may even miss the evening meal. Stay another night and go over the next day.Hi JabbaPapa,
Thank you very much for your words, your experience is very important to me and will certainly help me.
I have no experience in mountain/hiking and I am not familiar with the term "speed on the flat". Do you remember the speed you were going on the trail when you refer to "6 km/h on the flat"?
In general, how did you manage your 42 km/day in terms of stops, food, schedules...?
I expected to find many people who had already walked this stretch in the afternoon, but I was completely wrong.
Hi Julien and Peter,Hi Jonny, Your plan is missing a nap. There is nothing better than a mid-day picnic along the trail followed by a nice nap. Best of luck to you. If the weather is good, you will probably be just fine although you might miss dinner in Roncesvalles.
Hi Nickvee,Seems that you are determined to go through with it despite cautious advice from readers not to do so. Looks like you have done the planning and training. Now time to do it; it's your Camino.
If you make it without getting lost at night or suffer injury, then you would have proven to yourself (and to a lesser extent, Others) that it can be dome.
If you fail and get lost or injured, then you would have unnecessarily burdened the local authorities in looking and rescuing you. At its worst, you'll be represented by a cross that pilgrims/hikers will pass by during the daytime.
It is comments like this one that makes some of your readers wonder whether you are trolling us.Now, a tombstoneas already suggested or a cross on the path would mean that my life has ended there, and if this is the case, I don't see anything wrong with it, since no one knows the time and place of their departure and should be ready for this, it is not right?
Hi Scott,One more thing to consider: the people who will go at risk on the mountain to find you if something happens and you need to call for help. Is your desire to rush through one of the most beautiful parts of the Camino worth putting the rescue service personnel in danger?
Hi Kathar1na,It is comments like this one that makes some of your readers wonder whether you are trolling us.
No, it’s not right but unwise (I am trying to choose my adjectives carefully here) to say this when the context is preventable attitudes and preventable lack of knowledge about walking in an environment (terrain, climate, weather etc) that is fundamentally different to the level of experience and knowledge of the first-time Camino de Santiago walker from another continent on their first day from SJPP.
Yes, this is an admirable philosophy to apply to one's life. However, one can apply it wisely without succumbing to every impulse.I meant that we must be ready for the day of our departure, that we must value our life, enjoying every moment of it, without failing to say what could be said, without learning what could be learned, in other words, without living what could have been lived.
Our first Camino, we started in SJPDP and arrived in Roncesvalles at 8:04 p.m. Not because we started late from SJPDP, but because we ran into snow on the trail, and because of the snow (and fog), we had trouble in one area finding markers and had to backtrack, and then later we missed the path that avoids the steep albeit very beautiful forest path. It's easy to miss that junction even on a sunny day. The downhill was very painful on our toes, which we had not prepared for, and the pain slowed us down (at times I had to walk backward to avoid the pain). Fortunately, we had booked one of the hotels in Roncesvalles, and their restaurant was open until 9:00, but getting to dinner before closing time was a scramble.Hi Julien and Peter,
So I would miss one of the good parts of the plan, which would be taking a shower and having dinner at 8:00 pm.
Approximately what time did you start? And what month?Our first Camino, we started in SJPDP and arrived in Roncesvalles at 8:04 p.m. Not because we started late from SJPDP, but because we ran into snow on the trail
It was April 11, 2015 at approximately 8:30 a.m. from SJPDP. Not exactly an early start.Approximately what time did you start? And what month?
Not exactly a late start either!It was April 11, 2015 at approximately 8:30 a.m. from SJPDP. Not exactly an early start.
I started on April 14th, 2015, although I'm sure I never caught up with you. "So close, yet so far" as the old saying goes.It was April 11, 2015 at approximately 8:30 a.m. from SJPDP. Not exactly an early start.
Is there? Could you please post a link to the schedule? I would love to use this bus in the futureThere is a bus at 7:00 pm from Pamplona to Roncesvalles.
Thanks for posting these pictures. Puts things in the right perspective. As I'm sure you have planned for the hike, you adapted and adjusted your plans once you encountered the real conditions on the ground. We'll done!Our first Camino, we started in SJPDP and arrived in Roncesvalles at 8:04 p.m. Not because we started late from SJPDP, but because we ran into snow on the trail, and because of the snow (and fog), we had trouble in one area finding markers and had to backtrack, and then later we missed the path that avoids the steep albeit very beautiful forest path. It's easy to miss that junction even on a sunny day. The downhill was very painful on our toes, which we had not prepared for, and the pain slowed us down (at times I had to walk backward to avoid the pain). Fortunately, we had booked one of the hotels in Roncesvalles, and their restaurant was open until 9:00, but getting to dinner before closing time was a scramble.
We had no idea what we were doing, we stumbled upon the Camino in 2015 and made almost no plans beyond Roncesvalles. In hindsight, we were very lucky that it wasn't especially cold or raining. We would have been in very big trouble because our phone battery died midway, and we were the only people on the trail at that late hour. Of course, now we start from Orisson or Hunto, we carry lots of extra portable chargers, food, and we plan a nap each day.
The first two photos from 2015 photos were taken at 5:44 p.m. (not sure where) and 6:46 p.m. (walking backward a few steps to relieve pain on the downhill). We brought a camera on the first walk. The last photo was taken between Orisson and Roncesvalles in 2022 at 2:04 p.m. (the perfect time for a nap).
View attachment 177710View attachment 177711View attachment 177712
There is a bus at 7:00 pm from Pamplona to Roncesvalles
I have moved the responses to this question to a separate thread here.Is there? Could you please post a link to the schedule? I would love to use this bus in the future
Hi Damien,So when I first read the original post my thought was, "ooh, that sounds tough... that first day on the Napoleon is the most physically challenging day of any of the Caminos I've ever walked..."
As luck would have it, I started the Frances today and did a test, my results are below...
Some things to consider:
1) I consider myself in the 95th percentile as far as fitness and speed for peregrinos.
2) My training this year has consisted of a) Mid-Jan to Mid March: Camino Mozarabe 1440 km, Frances (Astorga - SdC, finishing up a camino I had to leave early the year before) 259 km
b) Mid April - July: Pacific Crest Trail (Campo - Quincy, CA) 2000 km
c) August 23-Sept 16: Camino del Norte 835 km.
3) So this was really like day 25 on the Camino this trip.
I busted my butt to do this today.
YMMV.
Note: this track is from the gate just at the edge of SJPdP to the back door of the Albergue at Roncesvalles...
I stopped twice. Once at orrison for coffee and then at the food truck for lunch. There were no pauses.Thanks for the report @Damien Reynolds.
I just want to add here that you were showing the results of the Wikiloc app and, for those not familiar with it, its average speed results are based dividing the distance by the moving time and even a pause of a few seconds to take in a view or catch your breath doesn't count as moving time. When I use Wikiloc on my exercise walks I compute the average time using the total time figure.
I think I finally got going around 10:40 or so. I had to take a taxi from Pamplona this am, then get a stamp, coffee, etc.What time did you start the trail?
I should have mentioned, I took the longer "mas tranquilo" path to the right. I am not sure I am the right person to ask about being able to identify the trail because I am very familiar with it. There are a bunch of different routes down and I know the short cuts.In the final part of the descent, is the path easy to identify, without many sections closed by the forest?
99.99% of my no movement time was rest/coffee/eating. (The .01% is when I had to pee.)Of your "no movement" time, how much percent would you classify as rest time?
me too... I am in the "other" 95% range....@Damien Reynolds is saying he is in the 95% percentile range in fitness level..
That is seriously fast.I stopped twice. Once at orrison for coffee and then at the food truck for lunch. There were no pauses.
Hi LeslieC,Hi, Jonny.
You absolutely don't want to have to overnight in the Pyrenees. I did - it's most unpleasant even in a tent, and it doesn't sound like you'll carry one of those ...
I heartily endorse Trecile's suggestion, many posts back: if you're staying in Pamplona when you arrive, just start walking from there the next morning. The whole myth about 'having' to start in St. Jean is well past its use-by date!
If you start in SJPdP start at the pilgrim office, Les Amis Du Chemin De Saint Jacques. Get the latest weather report and other notices (including their map showing how to take the safe way down from from the Col de Lepoeder).I confess that I had already wondered if the French Way started in SJPP at the city gates, or in front of the pilgrims' office
Just tell them you started in Geneva, drop the mic, and walk away. I’ve met people who started in Geneva, Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam. Kind of makes SJPP look weak. But people love to keep score.If you start in Pamplona, be prepared to meet many pilgrims on your way to Santiago, who will ask you over and over the same iconic question: "In Pamplona? Really? Why didn't you want to walk the WHOLE Camino?"
Hi again, @JonnyRosaI will arrive in Madrid on October 1st and then fly to Pamplona on the same day.
Hi Kathar1na,Hi again, @JonnyRosa. Are we still on for the 2nd and a start from SJPP?
The weather on Meteoblue has still only medium predictability but it does not look too brilliant for the 2nd. Rain and low hanging clouds on the way to and from the Collado de Bentarte are a strong possibility.
Please let us know what you finally decided to do and how it went. Buen Camino!!!
In early October, I plan to do the route from Sant Jean Pied de Port to Roncesvalles, leaving SJPP in the afternoon, around 2:30 p.m. I walk frequently and quickly, averaging 6 km/h. I would like to know if any of my colleagues have already done this route in the afternoon and what challenges I might be forgetting.
The first day is brutal. You won’t average more than 4 and if you hit mist/cloud at the top you’ll have a good chance of losing the route. Stay at Orisson or start from SJ in the morning.In early October, I plan to do the route from Sant Jean Pied de Port to Roncesvalles, leaving SJPP in the afternoon, around 2:30 p.m. I walk frequently and quickly, averaging 6 km/h. I would like to know if any of my colleagues have already done this route in the afternoon and what challenges I might be forgetting.
I predict that OP will not be able to walk the Napoleon Route in October because it will be officially closed. Just like the Somport Way is already closed. Orisson Refuge is closing on October 17th for a reason. In fact, I think this year the pass will close much earlier than usual (just a feeling in the gut).
Well, good luck and Buen Camino !!Hi Kathar1na,
I arrived in Madrid today and am waiting for my flight to Pamplona. I am very happy with the weather forecast, but I will check it tomorrow. I will write tomorrow with details.
I would say your estimate based on GPS tracks are very close. I generally hike around 6km/h and I managed the Napoleon Route in 6:15 including a short 15min stop. I had what I would consider ideal conditions at the beginning of September. I did not take the route through the woods, but even still the downhill section was a challenge, I would not want to do this section in the dark. I would also caution that if you do not usually hike with a pack of the same weight you will carry you may be surprised at the impact even a small amount of additional weight will have. I hike a lot and it still took my knees a number of days to get used to the additional weight.Perhaps you should ask your colleagues. I don't think any of us would know what they have done!
You have already heard what other forum members have said, but lets put some numbers around this. On 1 Oct, sunset at Roncesvalles will be about 1947, and civil twilight will end about 30 minutes later at 2018. Barring weather effects, if you leave SJPP around 1430, you will have a bit over five hours of daylight, and not quite six hours where you might be able to walk without artificial lighting. But you will also be walking through wooded areas that will be darker earlier.
Based on a gpx track from the Spanish mapping agency, I estimate the flat equivalent distance for Route Napoleon to be about 39 km. At 6 km/hr, that would be the equivalent of 6.5 hours walking. If you take even as short a break as 30 min, you will need 7.0 hours, and this will mean arriving well after the end of civil twilight.
By mid-Oct, sunset and the end of civil twilight will be about 30 minutes earlier.
note: Brierley suggests the flat equivalent for someone walking at 3 km/hr is 31 km based on an extra 10 min for every 100m of climb. Adjusting his calculations for your faster pace results in a flat equivalent of 39.33 km. I come at this a slightly simpler way, but with a very similar result, 38.72 km.
It seems that your own duration estimate is 4.5 hours. That would equate to a flat terrain speed of about 8.7 km/hr. I don't think that is very realistic as a planning speed.
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