Alert Pilgrim bitten by a dog on stage to Zamora

[Luka]

I just stumbled upon this article in a local newspaper. In between Villanueva de Campeán and El Perdigón a Spanish pilgrim was bitten by a dog and had to be treated in the hospital of Zamora. According to the article the owner of the dog was tracked down and all papers were up to date. No further information, so it is a bit unclear whether it could happen again.

Una peregrina acaba en el hospital de Zamora tras ser mordida por un perro

Tras la mordedura, fue trasladada al hospital Virgen de la Concha para recibir asistencia médica.

www.laopiniondezamora.es

 

[henrythedog]

There are a considerable number of dogs in Spain.

If ‘un hombre muerde a un pero’, that would be newsworthy.

 

[Former member 92300]

Don't know the consequences for the dog in question - but a dog bite is a potential hazard anywhere since many dogs are lose along the routes.

That said - most of the time the dogs just bark. I just stay alert and mindful of where the dogs are and keep walking. I don't approach dogs I don't know. And if they seem to be protecting property - I move away as quickly as I can (without running or acting scared since that may increase the dogs anxiety).

 

[dougfitz]

If ‘un hombre muerde a un pero’, that would be newsworthy.

and if un hombre mordió un culo, would that be newsworthy too!

 

[henrythedog]

and if un hombre mordió un culo, would that be newsworthy too!

Not for me to pass judgement Doug, but you’ve some strange people out there in Oz.

‘Un hombre mordío su culo’ might guarantee a job in ‘specialist’ films, or the circus …

I can’t see this lasting long.

 

[Tassie Kaz]

and if un hombre mordió un culo, would that be newsworthy too!

Ahh...but whose 'culo' did he bite...?

Not to trivialise a serious matter of course.
I haven't been bitten by a dog (or donkey ) but I was 'flanked' by two dogs on the VF...having only 1 hiking pole to deal with the situation required some deft sword manoeuvres.

 

[RJM]

"A dog bites a man, that’s a story; A man bites a dog—that’s a good story,”

 

[Former member 92300]

Ahh...but whose 'culo' did he bite...?

Not to trivialise a serious matter of course.
I haven't been bitten by a dog (or donkey ) but I was 'flanked' by two dogs on the VF...having only 1 hiking pole to deal with the situation required some deft sword manoeuvres.

I was "bitten" by a tiny "ankle biter" (which means the tiny little dog did nip at my ankle and then ran off).

My "scary moment" was when a local was herding his cattle and one decided to attach another that was literally right next to me lol... but I just casually stepped back. The guy next to me FLEW back thought! And I was closer

 

[dougfitz]

Ahh...but whose 'culo' did he bite...?

Noting that a joke that has to be explained is no joke, @henrythedog wrote If ‘un hombre muerde a un pero’, that would be newsworthy. A more generous person than I am might have presumed he meant, perro, and left it at that. But, or butt, I thought he might just have meant something else!

And to answer your question, I have no idea.

 

[K_Lynn]

Yikes! This is honestly my biggest worry on Camino. Today is also the anniversary of being attacked by a friend's dog(Tibetan Mastiff), I ended up with 20 stitches and some cool scars on my legs. I'd prefer not to get bitten again, it's not much fun.

I hope the pilgrim is recovering well.

 

[WayWalker]

I just stumbled upon this article in a local newspaper. In between Villanueva de Campeán and El Perdigón a Spanish pilgrim was bitten by a dog and had to be treated in the hospital of Zamora. According to the article the owner of the dog was tracked down and all papers were up to date. No further information, so it is a bit unclear whether it could happen again.

Una peregrina acaba en el hospital de Zamora tras ser mordida por un perro

Tras la mordedura, fue trasladada al hospital Virgen de la Concha para recibir asistencia médica.

www.laopiniondezamora.es

Another reason that walking sticks are brilliant. Dogs will typically move on you if your back is turned. Face them and scream loudly NO! Dealt with a few on the Portugese.

 

[Former member 92300]

Another reason that walking sticks are brilliant. Dogs will typically move on you if your back is turned. Face them and scream loudly NO! Dealt with a few on the Portugese.

Yes - didn't mention this in my earlier post - but I walk past loose dogs all the time at home too - and usually they follow me, but as soon as I turn around they run back. And yes - a stick would be beneficial - but I have also removed my pack from my back in case I need to use it to help push them back. Most of the time the loose dogs aren't the problem. The fenced dogs tend to be the most bothersome - but thankfully they are behind fences.

 

[EugeneB]

Noting that a joke that has to be explained is no joke, @henrythedog wrote If ‘un hombre muerde a un pero’, that would be newsworthy. A more generous person than I am might have presumed he meant, perro, and left it at that. But, or butt, I thought he might just have meant something else!

And to answer your question, I have no idea.

Funny and very clever!

 

[Robo]

Passed that way a couple of weeks,ago.
Had a few instances of threatening looking dogs.

The usual advice seemed to work.
Hold poles at side.
No eye contact.
Keep walking.

Most of the dogs just wanted to make sure you did not cross their boundary. They were all bark and no bite. Wagging tails are a giveaway!

Though one instance was a bit more scary.

En route to Granja I think.

Three of us were strung out along the path. The lead Pilgrim maybe 200-300 metres ahead.

Across a field to my left came running three large dogs. Barking. Heading for the lead Pilgrim. We yelled to him to 'watch left'.

His reaction was highly entertaining and effective. Being a fluent Spanish speaker too.

He fronted up to the dogs, now closing fast and about 100 metres away.

Pointing his poles at the dogs. He let lose a torrent of abuse in Spanish that scared the hell out of the dogs and stopped them in their tracks!

we moved on past as the dogs watched us, to make sure we were leaving their patch.

It appeared there was a pen with sheep in the middle of a very large field, about 400- 500 metres from the Camino.

They were guarding the sheep...

A bit scary but we laughed about it later, imagining what the dogs might be saying.

"Good job Jose. We saw off those Pilgrims in fine style".

a few days later I tried the same technique. It worked. Even though the abuse was in English, I think they understood the intent and my obvious displeasure!

 

[dick bird]

I have the impression that there are far fewer reports on the forum of dangerous or threatening dogs on the camino than there used to be. It may be that pilgrims are getting less intimidated by dogs, but that is unlikely. I believe that Spain and the regions have tightened up regulations regarding dog ownership and started to enforce them, not just along the popular camino routes, but all over Spain.

Incidentally, the incident described above is characteristic sheep dog behaviour - they are there to protect the herd and as long as you have the common sense to move away from the herd they will bark, stand their ground, and leave you alone. I have had this happen to me more than once. Guard dogs are often genuinely ferocious, but their job is to protect premises and it would be pretty pointless if their owners let them roam at will off said premises. Other dogs are kept indoors so they are bored witless and will bark frenziedly as you pass because you are the most exciting thing that has happened to them all day. Hunting dogs (i.e. gundogs, pointers and retrievers) are the best behaved and best trained of the lot. Over the last few years, the only dogs I've seen actually loose have been old, retired and often half blind, sitting in the middle of the road barely motivated even to look up to see who's there.

Those at least are my thoughts. Feel free to disagree. I'd be interested to know what other people think.

 

[Pafayac]

They were guarding the sheep...

Care should be taken when seeing dog guarding sheep: do not pass between dog and sheep, do not let the dog believe that you are a threat to the herd.
Mastiffs or Patou could be specially efficient for protecting sheep...

 

[Luka]

@dick bird you could be right. I have been living in (northern) Spain for more than 5 years now and have never had any (serious) problems with dogs. My fear of dogs (wich made me abandon the Invierno in 2015) has diminished since I got a Mastín Español myself. She won't harm anyone, but her barking can be rather impressive. She has taught me quite a bit about dogs and I understand them better now.

However the story of @Robo sounds rather frightening... Especially because I hope to walk there myself this August. I wonder what would have happened if that pilgrim wouldn't have been shouting. Dogs that protect herds would normally only attack people if they felt the herd was threatened. I am also surprised it scared them off as those dogs would even attack a bear if they would have to. Besides, shouting at them could also make them more agressive.

 

[Robo]

@dick bird you could be right. I have been living in (northern) Spain for more than 5 years now and have never had any (serious) problems with dogs. My fear of dogs (wich made me abandon the Invierno in 2015) has diminished since I got a Mastín Español myself. She won't harm anyone, but her barking can be rather impressive. She has taught me quite a bit about dogs and I understand them better now.

However the story of @Robo sounds rather frightening... Especially because I hope to walk there myself this August. I wonder what would have happened if that pilgrim wouldn't have been shouting. Dogs that protect herds would normally only attack people if they felt the herd was threatened. I am also surprised it scared them off as those dogs would even attack a bear if they would have to. Besides, shouting at them could also make them more agressive.

I wonder myself. I would not normally act in an aggresive manner with dogs that were protecting property or animals. Quite the opposite always seems to work.

But these dogs were coming hard and fast from a long way off... we couldn't even see the sheep, they were that far away....ignoring them was not going to work.

If you walk the VdlP, you will encounter working dogs. Of probably 10+ incidents, this was the only scary one.

 

[peregrina2000]

Face them and scream loudly NO!

No eye contact.

So which is it? Look at them and scream, or don’t make eye contact and walk on silently? I have heard both.

I have gotten over a lot of my fear of dogs while walking. Years ago, whenever a dog came towards me and started barking, I would stop walking and if I was in a village, I would just start yelling “Oiga” till someone came and took the dog. Inevitably they told me, “no hace nada,” but I explained that I was afraid.

It was a bit more complicated out in the middle of nowhere. I remember a huge dog guarding a flock or a herd near the path in the mountains on the way down to Cistierna on the Olvidado. Every time I got close, he came growling, barking, menacing (or so I thought). So I just sat down, had a snack, and enjoyed the views till the owner appeared (he had been following behind on a moto. Since then, I have become much braver and do now walk pass barking dogs, at least if I am in a village.

I am a bit sensitive about putting up contrary opinions and asking for more opinions, given the recent thread I had to close, but I am hoping to get some good answers.

I know @Anniesantiago always recommends bending over, pretending to pick up a rock, and starting to throw. But I’ve never thought to do that in the moment.

 

[Robo]

I'm no dog expert, but the passive approach works for me 99% of the time.
No eye contact
Ignore them.
Poles at my side
Walk on by.

They do not see you as a threat and once you are past, calm down.

The only incident where that was clearly not going to work, was the one I related above.

Three dogs charging across a field at a pilgrim at full speed.....

We weren't prepared to 'try' ignoring them....

I had one other slightly unerving moment.

A finca gate was left open. A dog was up ahead of me on the path and started getting aggresive.

Another came out of the finca gate behind me.....

I took the passive approach, subtly keeping an eye on both dogs. They soon ignored me....

Barking dogs are a daily occurrence. There was only that one incident that was scary.

Maybe the point here is.... to 'read' the situation and have a Plan B just in case....

 

[C clearly]

bending over, pretending to pick up a rock, and starting to throw. But I’ve never thought to do that in the moment.

I am nervous with strange dogs. Throwing rocks is not something I would ever do naturally. Anyway, I'd be afraid to bend over and get my face too close to the ground with a nasty dog nearby.

However, one time, a small dog was being mean to me from maybe 10 metres away. I was not terrified, but was still rather nervous and not keen to proceed. For the first time ever, I did bend down to fake picking up a rock, and the effect was instantaneous and very exhilarating. That dog took off like a shot, and I walked on, very proud of myself.

So which is it? Look at them and scream, or don’t make eye contact and walk on silently? I have heard both.

Maybe avert eyes and scream? I'm inclined to the approach of "don't make eye contact and walk on, talking conversationally, while desperately looking for the shepherd."

On the Invierno, I encountered 2 smallish dogs basically blocking the narrow street I was supposed to turn onto (in a village at the top of the hill above Belesar). I would have had to walk straight up to them. I hung back, studying my guide for alternative routes, of which none were attractive. After about 10 minutes somebody came along and of course said "no hacen nada". So I marched up to them while the neighbour watched from his car and the dogs parted to let me pass (but with much noise).

 

[peregrina2000]

I think “no hacen nada” is the phrase I hear most often when paralyzed next to growling dogs or herds of cows. Once when I was literally plastered next to a fence as hundreds of cattle came up the hill (with the owner behind on a motorcycle), after he told me “no hacen nada” I proceeded to tell him that what he meant to say is “no han hecho nada hasta ahora” and that there was a first time for everything.

 

[Pafayac]

I think “no hacen nada” is the phrase I hear most often when paralyzed next to growling dogs or herds of cows.

When, in the same circumstances, my mother was told "It is not naughty", she used to answer: "Perhaps it is not, but I am !".

 

[Pathfinder075]

I dislike dogs and they make me really nervous when I'm out in the middle of nowhere and come across one. I generally try to ignore them. But I mainly uncap my walking sticks and just keep going or take a detour to avoid them. No point worrying over something until it happens. If it does happen, deal with it.

My main worry about getting bitten is disease. The number of dogs you see frothing at the mouth always has me worried for rabies and other serious pathogens.

 

[Bradypus]

Another report of a dog attack in the same area on Saturday.

No cesan los ataques de perro en Zamora: una peregrina italiana ha sido trasladada al hospital

Realizaba el Camino de Santiago en su recorrido por uno de los caminos de la localidad de El Perdigón. ...

www.za49.es

 

[Luka]

Another report of a dog attack in the same area on Saturday.

No cesan los ataques de perro en Zamora: una peregrina italiana ha sido trasladada al hospital

Realizaba el Camino de Santiago en su recorrido por uno de los caminos de la localidad de El Perdigón. ...

www.za49.es

Must have been the same dog. And again the same phrase as in the first article:

... realizando posteriormente y conjuntamente con el SEPRONA las actuaciones administrativas correspondientes con el propietario del animal, tanto con la lectura del microchip como con el seguro, estando la documentación administrativa correcta y en vigor.

Paperwork up to date, case closed? In both cases it seems like the owner just gets away with it and that dog continues to be a danger for pilgrims passing by...

 

[Pathfinder075]

Sounds like the owner needs a lesson in dog control or his dog(s) removed, or both. If you can't control your animals, you shouldn't be allowed to keep them. Sadly this will just keep on happening until someone gets seriously attacked.

 

[WayWalker]

So which is it? Look at them and scream, or don’t make eye contact and walk on silently? I have heard both.

I have gotten over a lot of my fear of dogs while walking. Years ago, whenever a dog came towards me and started barking, I would stop walking and if I was in a village, I would just start yelling “Oiga” till someone came and took the dog. Inevitably they told me, “no hace nada,” but I explained that I was afraid.

It was a bit more complicated out in the middle of nowhere. I remember a huge dog guarding a flock or a herd near the path in the mountains on the way down to Cistierna on the Olvidado. Every time I got close, he came growling, barking, menacing (or so I thought). So I just sat down, had a snack, and enjoyed the views till the owner appeared (he had been following behind on a moto. Since then, I have become much braver and do now walk pass barking dogs, at least if I am in a village.

I am a bit sensitive about putting up contrary opinions and asking for more opinions, given the recent thread I had to close, but I am hoping to get some good answers.

I know @Anniesantiago always recommends bending over, pretending to pick up a rock, and starting to throw. But I’ve never thought to do that in the moment.

All I know is what works for me. I live in a rural neighborhood and have had to put up with my share of territorial dogs. I've had my bum nipped while my back was turned. I acted like I was throwing a rock and they scattered. Obviously they've had this happen to them.

 

[MethaV]

and if un hombre mordió un culo, would that be newsworthy too!

Sorry, but I don't see the fun in this matter. I met some aggressive dogs on the Camino, but more in France than in Spain. I'm just happy not to get bitten.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Thankfully, from the photo it doesn't look that serious -- possibly, the trip to the hospital was for a precautionary rabies shot, but that sort of private medical information would never be released to the Press.

Paperwork up to date, case closed? In both cases it seems like the owner just gets away with it and that dog continues to be a danger for pilgrims passing by...

Not case closed, from the second article it looks like the owner is going to be fined over the incident.

 

[dougfitz]

I'm just happy not to get bitten.

We all would be, but the post you are complaining about is not about this incident, but about a typo in a post commenting on the 'ambulance chaser' reporting about the incident. Incidents involving police cars, rescue services and ambulances are easy, perhaps lazy, journalism. In the case reported here they might be valuable to pilgrims walking in that area, so worth it to us as a pilgrim community. But I suggest that there are many more pilgrims being taken to hospital that go unreported because they don't involve these agencies, and we will never know about them, nor will we know if they reveal more dangerous conditions than what was reported.

Sorry, but I don't see the fun in this matter

There was no fun in the dog bite. My post was about a typo that I thought was humourous. Explaining it again for you won't make it any funnier. It's a pity you didn't get it.

 

[C clearly]

My post was about a typo that I thought was humourous. Explaining it again for you won't make it any funnier. It's a pity you didn't get it.

I saw a typo, but didn't get the joke. But that's OK - as you say, it won't get any funnier!

 

[henrythedog]

I saw a typo, but didn't get the joke. But that's OK - as you say, it won't get any funnier!

Intenté escribir perro, pero escribí pero. Fue todo.

 

[Texas Walker]

So which is it? Look at them and scream, or don’t make eye contact and walk on silently? I have heard both.

I have gotten over a lot of my fear of dogs while walking. Years ago, whenever a dog came towards me and started barking, I would stop walking and if I was in a village, I would just start yelling “Oiga” till someone came and took the dog. Inevitably they told me, “no hace nada,” but I explained that I was afraid.

It was a bit more complicated out in the middle of nowhere. I remember a huge dog guarding a flock or a herd near the path in the mountains on the way down to Cistierna on the Olvidado. Every time I got close, he came growling, barking, menacing (or so I thought). So I just sat down, had a snack, and enjoyed the views till the owner appeared (he had been following behind on a moto. Since then, I have become much braver and do now walk pass barking dogs, at least if I am in a village.

I am a bit sensitive about putting up contrary opinions and asking for more opinions, given the recent thread I had to close, but I am hoping to get some good answers.

I know @Anniesantiago always recommends bending over, pretending to pick up a rock, and starting to throw. But I’ve never thought to do that in the moment.

Pretending? I'm feeling around for one! Have even thrown car keys on occasion.

 

[dick bird]

bending over, pretending to pick up a rock, and starting to throw. But I’ve never thought to do that in the moment.

That works if the dog has had a lot of stones thrown at it, otherwise it will have no idea what you are pretending to do. I have known young labradors that have put a very different interpretation on that kind of behaviour.

 

[Esperanza]

I wouldn’t “bend over” to pick up a stone; I would squat while keeping my back straight, my head up, and continuing to face the dog. I do agree that one should not look an aggressive dog in the eye, but maintaining an alert and heads up stance is better than a ducking or submissive-seeming stance that bending from the waist might suggest.

In any event, I think that aggressive farm dogs that are the type to cause problems on the Camino are all too familiar with having stones thrown at them. I would be very surprised if even just pretending to pick up a stone didn’t make them run away.

 

[Shona]

A few days short of Santiago on the VdlP/Sanabres we were barked at by a large dog in a garden as we approached. He then stopped barking and disappeared behind the very thick high hedge. A few paces on he shot his head out of a hole in the hedge exactly as we reached it, barking like mad. Boy, did we jump! Timed to perfection! We sure heard him laughing