Navarra, plans for investment in Camino routes

[Kirkie]

I have not had time to read this yet, but my spy on the ground tells me it outlines what it says on the tin, including a comment on the issue of how to improve the descent around Zubiri. I have no doubt that those who can't read Spanish can use deepl or any other translator of your choice.

https://www.noticiasdenavarra.com/s...fia-camino-santiago-paso-navarra-8950282.html

 

[Anhalter]

Have to say, I am a bit sceptical, when i look at the "improvements" to the way done in the past. Just paving the way in concrete, that is far from the ideal walking surface, is not the only option available.

The rest reads like the typical bull*it you have to do to get EU funds.

financed by the European Union, through the Next Generation funds, called ACD (Destination Cohesion Options) 5 Roads, which seeks to create a greener and more sustainable path, energy-efficient, digitally advanced and more experiential, attractive, inclusive and more accessible.

edit: just to be clear, i have nothing against improvements being made to the Camino. The dreaded descent to Zubiri needs that like few other places on the way. I just fear they'll go for the easiest option available (again).

 

[Kathor1]

The rest reads like the typical bull*it you have to do to get EU funds.

The "Next Generation funds" - the manna that has fallen on the EU countries as a consequence of the economic disaster that followed from the Corona virus pandemic. Spain has been allocated a large share of these billions of euros.

And instead of painting a dark picture fuelled by skepticism, why not trying to find out whether the actors of the civic society, such as the Camino associations and similar associations of citizens, in the region Navarra have an input into the plans for investing public money into Camino related areas for improvement? Or whether they have such options for input but don't make use of it because they don't know or are not interested and how this participation could be improved? Including input from the international community? It would need organising, obviously, ...

 

[Kirkie]

The "Next Generation funds" - the manna that has fallen on the EU countries as a consequence of the economic disaster that followed from the Corona virus pandemic. Spain has been allocated a large share of these billions of euros.

And instead of painting a dark picture fuelled by skepticism, why not trying to find out whether the actors of the civic society, such as the Camino associations and similar associations of citizens, in the region Navarra have an input into the plans for investing public money into Camino related areas for improvement? Or whether they have such options for input but don't make use of it because they don't know or are not interested and how this participation could be improved? Including input from the international community? It would need organising, obviously, ...

I like your proposal in the second paragraph.
I will ask my second contact person, employed in the relevant Navarra government department, about that.
Another comment, from my spy on the ground was that they will not use concrete for the Zubiri stretch.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Thanks @Kirkie. I guess 'improvements' are in the eye of the beholder. For example I am all for safety initiatives, so long as they do not destroy the very features which make the camino so special. (Thinking of the already excessive use of limestone and concrete). As for"improving energy efficiency and lighting of tourist and monumental heritage, within which 1,252,000 euros have already been awarded" - whilst I'm all for improving energy efficiency, personally the most 'efficient' use of the lights is to switch them off altogether. Mother nature already provides us with two sources of illumination.

Then you could spend that 1.25 million euros on providing toilet facilities. Far more beneficial to the environment.
Yes, I know it wouldn't go far and yes I know somebody's still needs to service them - but it would be a great start.

 

[DJames]

With toilet facilities on the France’s, the amount of pilgrims would double! Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[domigee]

Then you could spend that 1.25 million euros on providing toilet facilities. Far more beneficial to the environment.
Yes, I know it wouldn't go far and yes I know somebody's still needs to service them - but it would be a great start.

What is this fixation on 'providing toilet facilities'???? There are already plenty of cafes, albergues, restaurants etc on the CF, which provide toilet facilities! If more 'independant' toilets were put up, can you imagine the state they would be left in??? I dread to think.

 

[domigee]

I have not had time to read this yet, but my spy on the ground tells me it outlines what it says on the tin, including a comment on the issue of how to improve the descent around Zubiri. I have no doubt that those who can't read Spanish can use deepl or any other translator of your choice.

https://www.noticiasdenavarra.com/s...fia-camino-santiago-paso-navarra-8950282.html

Why don't they just build a huge, concrete motorway, in a straight line and be done with it! ;-)

 

[Tincatinker]

Why don't they just build a huge, concrete motorway, in a straight line and be done with it! ;-)

Ah, the Autopista Peregrinos. That stretch between Fromista and Carrión comes to mind as do some of Tourismo Galicias’ efforts. I take comfort from the thought that €1.25m won’t even cover the cost of the “feasibility studies”

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

What is this fixation on 'providing toilet facilities'???? There are already plenty of cafes, albergues, restaurants etc on the CF, which provide toilet facilities! If more 'independant' toilets were put up, can you imagine the state they would be left in??? I dread to think.

Because there are some relatively long stretches without aforementioned bars, cafes, Albergues etc, and regrettably far too many pilgrims leave their excrement, toilet paper, even sanitary products strewn about behind every bush and building.
Holding on is not always an option. I would far prefer that people carried their waste out, or worst case buried it, but they don’t. Sadly there are many threads on exactly this topic here on the forum.

As to the state they’d be left in: having spent a year running a bar I don’t have to imagine.
I did say they would need to be serviced.

 

[Dani7]

What is this fixation on 'providing toilet facilities'???? There are already plenty of cafes, albergues, restaurants etc on the CF, which provide toilet facilities! If more 'independant' toilets were put up, can you imagine the state they would be left in??? I dread to think.

Makes me wonder what the state of the toilet facilities are along the Via Podiensis. From the many videos I have watched, they look clean and upkept. I would much prefer to go along the route in a provided toilet facility then put the whole responsibility on the cafes and restaurants as not all pilgrims buy something there, plus the biowaste is unhealthy for the environment, let alone the views. From what I can gleam from people walking the various caminos, this particular situation is getting worse not better. I really hope they set money aside for some along the Frances, especially in areas where villages are far apart or facilities are limited.

 

[VNwalking]

Another comment, from my spy on the ground was that they will not use concrete for the Zubiri stretch.

Yes, but will they cover up the flysch??

 

[Kirkie]

Oh dear. Did I set a cat among the pigeons? I never engage in discussion about some of the issues mentioned above. Not my style.
Maybe (!) I am being ignored, so I can happily forget I ever posted this thread as I am only talking to myself.
Carry on, I promise not to check in any more to this thread which is maybe even invisible by now.
Except, yes, I promise to ask again about the flysch.
and this is the sign I am referring to the ignore question on another thread, not the very serious flysch issue.

 

[naplesdon]

With toilet facilities on the France’s, the amount of pilgrims would double! Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!

The real issue of spending these kinds of funds on projects like toilets is that nothing is ever put aside for maintenance. Bad idea because that expense gets left in the hands of the local authorities on a long term basis and frankly, I think they could care less.

 

[Kathor1]

I got curious to learn a bit about what this is actually about. The article linked in post 1 is a summary of a recent press conference given by two officials from the regional Navarra administration. It's on YouTube. A total of 3 journalists were present in an otherwise yawningly empty room. They could ask questions at the end of the event and they asked about 3 questions. None of these questions covered what is mentioned and deplored and feared in this thread so far ... this does not appear to be an object of interest for the regional press.

The way the funds are distributed appears to work to a large extent like this: interested parties like some 100 (so far it appears) local municipalities in Navarra submit a project and if approved they receive the money and then execute their project. If pilgrims don't let them know what's important to pilgrims then they will presumably focus on what is important to the municipalities.

Projects do not only focus on walking Camino pilgrims. The Camino de Santiago in Navarra is a cultural asset and an economic asset for Navarra. And that includes visitors who don't come to Navarra for the long-distance walking.

There is an Orden Foral 61E/2024 of 16 May that specifies some details for obtaining money under the NextGenerationEU program. Toilets are mentioned in this decree.

 

[domigee]

The real issue of spending these kinds of funds on projects like toilets is that nothing is ever put aside for maintenance. Bad idea because that expense gets left in the hands of the local authorities on a long term basis and frankly, I think they could care less.

I think they probably care @naplesdon but they just don’t have the funds… (imo)

 

[domigee]

Oh dear. Did I set a cat among the pigeons? I never engage in discussion about some of the issues mentioned above. Not my style.
Maybe (!) I am being ignored, so I can happily forget I ever posted this thread as I am only talking to myself.
Carry on, I promise not to check in any more to this thread which is maybe even invisible by now.
Except, yes, I promise to ask again about the flysch.
and this is the sign I am referring to the ignore question on another thread, not the very serious flysch issue.

What is the ‘flysch’, @Kirkie??

 

[naplesdon]

I think they probably care @naplesdon but they just don’t have the funds… (imo)

True, I was struggling for the right words. If, the planning for a project (say latrines) that involves continuous maintenance expenses does not include the local community to buy into it then it is doomed. I was involved in repairing and replacing "modern" wells in impoverished communities in West Africa for a number of years. There were many well meaning, highly funded charitable organizations that came to my towns to install wells. The thing they did not do was provide ongoing support to provide replacement parts and so after certain parts gave out these wells became useless. Even with my access to western suppliers, I was stymied. Bottomline, if the locals want to build latrines let them; but why not spend this new found money on some relevant permanent environmental sound solution to a dangerous and repairable part of the Camino.

 

[VNwalking]

What is the ‘flysch’, @Kirkie??

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/n135-puerto-de-erro-to-zubiri.85848/post-1239140

 

[domigee]

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/n135-puerto-de-erro-to-zubiri.85848/post-1239140

Thank you!

 

[BillW]

Makes me wonder what the state of the toilet facilities are along the Via Podiensis. From the many videos I have watched, they look clean and upkep

I walked the Via Podiensis, and for the first two weeks or so, there are several really nice public bathroom facilities scattered along the trail. They were all clean. Some had simple foot pumps to flush the toilet.

I'm not sure how the construction and maintenance of these are funded, but they are really nice, and if localities could invest in these along the busier routes, it would be a big improvement and get rid of some of the trash issues, I believe. (Personally, I'd be willing to donate to foundations that would build and maintain these type facilities for pilgrims.)

I've attached a photo of an example. This one was just outside of Le Villeret d'Apchier, France.