Camino Francés Federación to ban suitcases in their albergues (11 albergues affected by this rule)

[dougfitz]

I am on the Norte now and have reserved all lodging ahead, staying at private albergues, pensiones, and a few small hotels. I have seen luggage transport waiting for "arrivals" of owners a few times already. Their suitcases look quite big and seem to be rather high end luggage.
Here are the ones I saw today (6 of them) when checking in to the "Km101", where we had a reservation.
View attachment 146640

I don't think this in any way new. I saw similar sized suitcases in a hotel and a private albergue in 2010 and 2014 on the CF. I don't recall seeing them elsewhere. Those that I saw in the hotel at Castrojeriz might not have belonged to people walking the Camino. Those in the albergue certainly did.

 

[Peter J Martin]

I agree. I don't think that they needed to make a distinction between pilgrims and tourists, as I believe that whether one is a pilgrim or not depends on the intention of the individual, not how they carry their belongings. They could have just made the rule without the judgment.

Edited to add: I think that it's a good decision to not allow suitcases in these types of albergues. There are plenty of accommodations for those who are having suitcases sent ahead, and I'm happy that these albergues will be available only to those carrying their own backpack.

I will be doing my 7th Camino at the end of the month, I have never used Albergues, I am always fully booked ahead and I always have a suitcase taken forward with essential medications, clothes and the like for my medical conditions. I always consider myself a pilgrim, for example last year I walked 590 miles over 6 weeks on the Norte out to Finnisterre carrying my young brother's ashes in my back pack and placed them in the sea at Finisterre. I am always a pilgrim, always go to mass where ever I can and say the rosary as I walk along. This is the reason I walk the Caminos, I am never a tourist . I never judge anyone whether they are a tourist or pilgrim. I don't consider myself better or superior to any other person walking the Caminos. How they walk it, where the stop each night , and why they walk it is their own personal business. I would never judge anyone and would hope other people would be the same.

I agree the rule for the these Albergues could and should have been made with out making a judgment on who is or is not a pilgrim. Such comments are unintentionally hurtful to every genuine pilgrim no matter how they choose to do the pilgrim walk of the Caminos.

 

[Elainesnider]

Several news sites today have reported on a meeting of the Camino Francés Federación in Saint Jean Pied de Port. Amongst other business the member Amigos associations have decided to ban suitcases in the 11 albergues under their direct control. A proposal which @Rebekah Scott posted here some months ago.

Las asociaciones del Camino de Santiago prohíben las maletas en los albergues que gestionan sus asociaciones, once en total

Las asociaciones del Camino de Santiago acuerdan ser "beligerantes" con los "atentados" contra la ruta jacaboea

www.noticiasdenavarra.com

As a senior citizen beginning my first Camino in the Fall, I understand the need to prepare -- but lugging a suitcase is not a pilgrimage... it is touring. While I applaud the opportunity to have a company lug my backpack -- it is a compromise -- some may not be able to carry their load the whole way. However, carrying a suitcase defeats the purchase of minimalism that a pilgrim epitomizes.

 

[Rhysmike]

Several news sites today have reported on a meeting of the Camino Francés Federación in Saint Jean Pied de Port. Amongst other business the member Amigos associations have decided to ban suitcases in the 11 albergues under their direct control. A proposal which @Rebekah Scott posted here some months ago.

Las asociaciones del Camino de Santiago prohíben las maletas en los albergues que gestionan sus asociaciones, once en total

Las asociaciones del Camino de Santiago acuerdan ser "beligerantes" con los "atentados" contra la ruta jacaboea

www.noticiasdenavarra.com

Not quite the Sherpa strike at Everest base camp, but a step in the right direction I think.

 

[C clearly]

I don't know what all this fuss is about.

Some nonprofit lodging establishments have decided to set certain criteria for who they let stay there. They are not violating any of the basic human rights that many countries support.

I fully expect that exceptions would be considered for disabled pilgrims, upon request, but I don't think that shin splints and blisters qualify as disabilities.

Some albergues might decide they only want people wearing medieval costumes, and why would I mind? Some restaurants have dress codes.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

He looks tired too but that hill into Astorga is quite tough at the end of the day. Lets not forget with regard to suitcases that some people are 3/4 of a world away from home and the camino is just a part of their trip

View attachment 146624

This statue is not a pilgrim. It is an immigrant.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

While I understand the rationale behind this, it ignores the number of handicapped individuals, including myself, who physically can’t carry a backpack. As someone who has a cage and eight screws holding up my neck, I am blessed to be able to walk at all. Three years ago walking wasn’t a given. That my physical condition somehow makes me less of a pilgrim is disappointing to hear. I finished the French Way solo last fall.

Puh-leeze, No one is saying you are less of a pilgrim if you are disabled. They are simply saying you cannot send a suitcase to their albergue. People with physical handicaps are given leeway on this rule, and they always have been. If you are physically unable to carry your own backpack, call ahead to the place you want to go and tell them what's up. It is that simple.
This rule stems from a lot of abuse of donativo/volunteer-run albergues by the bag-transport services and their clients. Long story short: volunteers are not unpaid luggage handlers. People on a pilgrimage aren't tourists, and if they are taking this seriously, they can use a backpack and a sleeping bag instead of a suitcase. (the word "maleta" means suitcase. Luggage. Not backpack.) And if you can afford to ship your suitcase down the camino, you can afford to get a bed in a non-donativo albergue.
This thread is full of myths and misconceptions: No, don't assume the donativo albergues are subsidized by anybody, lots of them are completely dependant on your donations!
FICS is not the Asociacion Camino Frances. FICS is part of the group. There's a lot of overlap in the leadership, a bit of an "interlocking directorate," but their goals and scope are different. Do not mistake them for the Federation of Amigos del Camino de Santiago, the old-school federation of regional camino groups founded in the early 90s.
Both are dedicated to curbing the rampant commercialization and privatization of the Way, upholding traditional camino hospitality, and generally working to keep the Way from turning into Pilgrim Disney... even if that's what many pilgrims seem to want.

 

[trecile]

@Rebekah Scott - there's been a lot of speculation as to which albergues will institute this rule - can you clarify?

 

[JabbaPapa]

While I understand the rationale behind this, it ignores the number of handicapped individuals, including myself, who physically can’t carry a backpack. As someone who has a cage and eight screws holding up my neck, I am blessed to be able to walk at all. Three years ago walking wasn’t a given. That my physical condition somehow makes me less of a pilgrim is disappointing to hear. I finished the French Way solo last fall.

There is in principle an exception for those with a disability. I have one too, but I can still physically carry a backpack, and so I do.

Perhaps next time, put a "disabled" symbol sticker on your luggage ?

I think hospitaleros and others would be understanding of your situation.

 

[Anamiri]

He looks tired too but that hill into Astorga is quite tough at the end of the day. Lets not forget with regard to suitcases that some people are 3/4 of a world away from home and the camino is just a part of their trip

View attachment 146624

Yes, a pilgrimage could be part of a longer holiday for sure - but if you want to stay in donativo albergues you have the option to send your suitcases on to Santiago, and walk with a pack.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Which municipals accept reservation? This is news to me.

Some do, and some don't.

@Rebekah Scott - there's been a lot of speculation as to which albergues will institute this rule - can you clarify?

I doubt that there's any full list at the moment -- given that some individual Albergues and groups of Albergues already had such a rule last year, and that several Associations have instituted or are instituting similar.

Not excluding those, like the Xunta Albergues in Galicia, that -- with some exceptions -- do not accept any luggage transport at all, which is a related but not identical matter, as pilgrims with larger luggage are less likely to stay in such places than in private Albergues that do accept such luggage, and the luggage transport.

I guess at one point, some systematic catalogue will be established by someone on the "Accepts suitcases" Yes/No question.

-------

One other point to consider ...

If the wealthier pilgrims wishing to walk in more comfort -- and there is nothing "wrong" with wishing to do so, nor with those pilgrims -- ended up being with a general requirement from this rule to stay more often in more "touristy" accommodations, then this will be of economic benefit to the Municipalities, Regions, and Caminos.

And if those pilgrims needed sometimes to plan ahead, sending their larger luggage ahead 2 or 3 stages, and keeping something larger than a typical daypack in the meantime, that wouldn't be a bad thing either.

Nor would it be a bad thing if some decided to leave their suitcase at home, and go with just a backpack instead.

 

[markie6]

This statue is not a pilgrim. It is an immigrant.

"At the beginning of September 2004, the sculpture Quo Vadis?, by the Leonese artist Sendo García Ramos, located in front of the Gaudí Palace in Astorga (León), suffered an intentional fire that left it almost reduced to ashes. The figure, which represented one of the many pilgrims who travel the Camino de Santiago, was carved in polychrome plaster, and was approximately five meters high. Later, thanks to the 6,500 euros collected through a popular collection by the Maragata society, the sculpture, with slight variations, will resurface from its remains"

quoted from the link earlier in the thread.

 

[Kathor1]

We have to accept that the current bronze statue in Astorga created by Rosendo García Ramos, also known as Sendo:

• is seen and described as that of a pilgrim, a traveller, an immigrant or an emigrant;
• that the plaque in front of the statue (a photo was posted earlier in the thread) says “El Caminante”, “Quo Vadis” and “Sendo”, which is Spanish for walker, hiker, wayfarer (take your pick) and Latin for Where are you going and the short name of the sculptor himself;
• that the sculptor of the statue has produced a whole series of drawings with the same motif of “Caminante” that you can see here;
• that the sculptor, when asked about the famous Latin quote, supposedly said (I did not bother to search for the actual interview) that he gave it to his work as an allegory of the spiritual journey that at some time in our lives we all make, and not only those who undertake the pilgrimage to Compostela, in search of a meaning that we can give to our existence;
• that there are now four posts in this thread with a photo of the statue and there may be more to come;
• that it was predictable that mentioning of the statue would cause thread drift and not contribute much to the topic as such.

 

[Kathor1]

that it was predictable that mentioning of the statue would cause thread drift and not contribute much to the topic as such.

Or perhaps it can contribute to helping us focus on what it is about. Not about suitcases. Not about all travellers on the Camino de Santiago. I doubt that there is a way to stop them, to prevent them from coming, to force them or convince them to adopt the same mindset about why they are travelling and walking on the Way to Santiago, given all the publicity, both current publicity from many sides and the publicity of the past 30 years.

It is about the travellers for whom the Camino Francés Federacion wants to provide the hospitality of their member associations. It's good that they define their criteria more clearly - what and for whom. But drop the constant tourist versus pilgrim references because there is no generally accepted definition of what a pilgrim is, not even of what a Camino pilgrim is, and there is plenty of overlap between these general two concepts, and all the time.

​

 

[Kathor1]

As to the meaning of the statue in Astorga: See the sculptor's website and his own words on Exposición Quo Vadis. El Caminante:

"They are not pilgrims. They are walkers, wanderers, travellers who do not know where they are starting from and they have no destination. Most of them never get anywhere", the artist explains. [...] His travellers are seen with their backs turned, carrying what they have accumulated along the way or evidence of what they have lost, with a full suitcase or an empty suitcase, and the desire to collect a little more during their journey. ​

​

"No son peregrinos. Son caminantes, ambulantes, viajeros que no se sabe de donde parten y tampoco tienen punto de llegada. La mayoría de ellos no llegan a ningúna parte", aclara el pintor. [...] A los viajeros de Sendo se les ve de espaldas, cargados con lo que han ido acumulando en el camino o con la prueba de lo que han perdido, can la maleta llena o con la maleta vacía y el afán de recaudar todavía algo en su experiencia. ​

 

[JennLyons]

Several news sites today have reported on a meeting of the Camino Francés Federación in Saint Jean Pied de Port. Amongst other business the member Amigos associations have decided to ban suitcases in the 11 albergues under their direct control. A proposal which @Rebekah Scott posted here some months ago.

Las asociaciones del Camino de Santiago prohíben las maletas en los albergues que gestionan sus asociaciones, once en total

Las asociaciones del Camino de Santiago acuerdan ser "beligerantes" con los "atentados" contra la ruta jacaboea

www.noticiasdenavarra.com

I am the first to pull up the "real pilgrims" on their obsession with what is a pilgrim, however I 100 % agree with this rule. It is not a cheap holiday option to stay in Albergues it is for those that wish to experience carrying their packs and communal living. Well done I say...

 

[Anna2023]

My google chrome translated this paragraph:

"We are traditional Jacobean shelters that work for and for the pilgrimage to Santiago. The pilgrim travels with his belongings in a backpack, the tourist with his suitcase, which makes no sense on a natural path that is done on foot, by bike or on horseback. There are other accommodations that meet the needs of a tourist and we do not want to lose the essences that make the Camino de Santiago a unique and global phenomenon", they explain from the Camino Francés Federation.

I find this interesting as there is much debate on what does and does not make a pilgrim. I guess at least the Camino Frances Federation has taken a stand on this particular statement.

So those who send their backpacks on to the next stop don’t count as pilgrims?

 

[Anna2023]

As a senior citizen beginning my first Camino in the Fall, I understand the need to prepare -- but lugging a suitcase is not a pilgrimage... it is touring. While I applaud the opportunity to have a company lug my backpack -- it is a compromise -- some may not be able to carry their load the whole way. However, carrying a suitcase defeats the purchase of minimalism that a pilgrim epitomizes.

Some pilgrims used donkeys or horses to carry their pack. A van driving a suitcase to a destination is just the modern version of that.

 

[Kathor1]

Some pilgrims used donkeys or horses to carry their pack. A van driving a suitcase to a destination is just the modern version of that.

Not really. All too often a small bit of isolated knowledge of what we know about living and thinking in the Middle Ages is picked out and used to justify or to object to something in our time; it's done by all sides in the contemporary narratives. Something has its medieval roots, it is claimed, or something is just the same as in the Middle Ages while in reality the similarities are only superficial.

 

[dougfitz]

So those who send their backpacks on to the next stop don’t count as pilgrims?

This point has been addressed and rebutted several times in the thread already. If, after reading the responses that address this, you still have a concern, perhaps that would be a good time to repeat the question.

ps if you think this is a little terse, it might be because those of us who have addressed the point do not have unlimited time, etc to keep repeating what we have already said about this or any other topic like it that generates significant levels of interest. You are not the only one who comes into a thread that is now over 100 posts long, and asks something that has already been addressed, indicating that the earlier posts have gone unread. It really isn't good practice to do that, and clearly one might have to wade through a lot of material, but that is the price one pays for not looking amateurish.

 

[JabbaPapa]

So those who send their backpacks on to the next stop don’t count as pilgrims?

What you are commenting on is a Spanish cultural understanding of what and who are pilgrims, which you don't get to redefine any more than anyone could redefine the notion of pilgrimage from a Catholic, religious perspective.

As foot/bike pilgrims of the Way of Saint James we have our own shared understandings of the term, and those other groups don't get to redefine these ones either.

There are multiple understandings of the word, and it is pointless to get upset when someone else uses a definition that one doesn't accept oneself.

 

[dick bird]

There seems to be some confusion here. From what I can gather, there are at least two statues by Sendo García Ramos in Astorga. This is the one I remember and as it is located outside the public albergue (which, from memory is the building you can see in the background), I blithely assumed it to be of a pilgrim. However, the photo in the article that Bradypus gave a link to shows a completely different statue outside a completely different building - Gaudí's Bishop's palace. Anyway, it may be time to close this tread as it is getting very cluttered, but I shall leave it for a while to give everyone a chance to have their say.

 

[dick bird]

There are multiple understandings of the word, and it is pointless to get upset when someone else uses a definition that one doesn't accept oneself.

"When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less. ' 'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things. ' 'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.”

Charles Lutwidge Dodgson, aka Lewis Carroll, as brilliant an applied linguist as he was a mathemtician, Logician and children's writer.

 

[dick bird]

So those who send their backpacks on to the next stop don’t count as pilgrims?

You 'll need to ask Camino Francés Federación that question. Those are their words, not the words of anyone on the forum.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I am part of FICS, thus part of the Camino Frances Federation. The policy simply means do not send a suitcase to a donativo albergue. Everything else is extrapolation and projection.

 

[ivar]

Will close this thread...

 

[dick bird]

There seems to be some confusion here. From what I can gather, there are at least two statues by Sendo García Ramos in Astorga. This is the one I remember and as it is located outside the public albergue (which, from memory is the building you can see in the background), I blithely assumed it to be of a pilgrim. However, the photo in the article that Bradypus gave a link to shows a completely different statue outside a completely different building - Gaudí's Bishop's palace. Anyway, it may be time to close this tread as it is getting very cluttered, but I shall leave it for a while to give everyone a chance to have their say.

I am using my privilege as a mod to add to a closed thread in order to clarify matters. Kathar1na has very kindly supplied the following information:

Astorga Fiesta 2004: Statue of traveller by Sendo, some 5 metres high, is installed in front of Gaudi Palace
September 2004: Statue is destroyed by vandals, burns down; inhabitants raise €6500 for new statue/replacement
2011: Statue of traveller by Sendo, some 2 metres high, bronze, is installed in front of Astorga albergue

 

[dick bird]

Will close this thread...

Sorry to do this, I know it annoys some members, but some more information has come to light:
*UPDATE*: SUITCASES

to be BANNED

from certain albergues.

The Camino Francés Federation has now listed the albergues. The new measures will be implemented from around the third week of June.

"The measure will take effect in June, foreseeably in its third week. To this end, the meaning and specifics of this measure will be communicated more widely.

These eleven shelters are those of Estella, Los Arcos, Canfranc (Aragón), Logroño, Nájera, Santo Domingo de la Calzada, Burgos, Astorga, Foncebadón, Acebo and Ponferrada.

We are referring to the shelters run by the Associations of Friends of the Camino and in the case of the last three, the parish ones".

Thanks to Paul Garland for posting it on his Facebook page and to Bradypus for passing it on.