Itinerary opinion

[mmepoq1]

Hi,
My husband, age 70, and a group of mainly 50 years up men, just finished a partial Camino del Norte. This was their schedule: ( Caridad) to Santiago in 9 straight days : 15, 21, 25, 18, 15, 15, 15, 6 miles a day. It was so remote they saw very few people, and passed through villages so small they often had to skip lunch. 2 sprained ankles and one case of tendonitis.

What do you think of this itinerary? To me, it seemed a poor choice of route for older guys who are not hikers.
They ended up with 3 full days in Santiago, but never had time to check out any of the places they stayed along they stayed along the way. Theyb would get late starts and twice were still walking at midnight! A travel agent was the leader. He would pick expensive places to eat that involved walking 20 minutes to get there! Never any foot rest.

To me, it’s an insane schedule. Your thoughts?

 

[mmepoq1]

Hi,
My husband, age 70, and a group of mainly 50 years up men, just finished a partial Camino del Norte. This was their schedule: ( Caridad) to Santiago in 9 straight days : 15, 21, 25, 18, 15, 15, 15, 6 miles a day. It was so remote they saw very few people, and passed through villages so small they often had to skip lunch. 2 sprained ankles and one case of tendonitis.

What do you think of this itinerary? To me, it seemed a poor choice of route for older guys who are not hikers.
They ended up with 3 full days in Santiago, but never had time to check out any of the places they stayed along they stayed along the way. Theyb would get late starts and twice were still walking at midnight! A travel agent was the leader. He would pick expensive places to eat that involved walking 20 minutes to get there! Never any foot rest.

To me, it’s an insane schedule. Your thoughts?

I see I have had many views but no replies. I hope someone will weigh in, whether you agree or disagree. Thanks!

 

[Suzanne S.]

Well, I'll take the plunge. They started just before the Norte turns inland, which denies views of the coast. As I recall the accommodations get somewhat sparser, but by no means are they so spread out that I couldn't accomplish them. But I did do these things: I started early each day, as early as I could so as to not walk in the dark. I prebooked so that I was in the evenings town by four at the latest. Plenty have, but I never walked in the dark. I was not very picky about where I ate, but found plenty of places to eat. The longest trek was the day I merged with the Frances, and I was there by mid day.

Seems to me, theirs was a bit of bad planning. Not so much the Camino itself but timing and choices. I was 64 when I walked from Irun and got not even a blister. Not everyone has my good luck.

 

[C clearly]

Sounds like you (and presumably your husband) were dissatisfied and are looking for supporting opinions. What you tell us is not really enough to make a clear case.

You refer to the leader being a travel agent. Are you saying that the group paid him for a service that wasn't delivered satisfactorily? Since we don't know what the agreement was, it is hard to pass judgement. Yes, some of the distances were longer than I would choose, but many people walk them. What was the original plan, and what information or guidance was provided in advance? I have no idea why they would have been walking until midnight. That could only happen if they waited until noon or later to start a long day. Why was that, and what reasoning or options were given at the time? Was the leader walking with them? Why didn't they start out earlier?

I have certainly missed lunch occasionally on the Camino, but have always carried something to eat. Did the leader commit to arranging a mid-day meal?

The complaint about tour organizers booking hotels or restaurants too far from the Camino is something I've heard before. A 20 minute walk to a restaurant is not insane, but closer would be nice after a long day.

It is very hard to comment without knowing what the arrangements/commitments were.

 

[Pafayac]

A travel agent was the leader. He would pick expensive places to eat that involved walking 20 minutes to get there! Never any foot rest.

To me, it’s an insane schedule. Your thoughts?

My personal advice is that it is a mistake to pay a travel agent to organize a Camino.
(That are my 2 cents, you can give them to the travel agent as a tip).

 

[Roland49]

My personal advice is that it is a mistake to pay a travel agent to organize a Camino.
(That are my 2 cents, you can give them to the travel agent as a tip).

Same thoughts here.
I can get as old as a stone and never would hire a travel agent for a camino.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I hadn't bothered to comment because of the lack of detail you provide, which is covered nicely by @C clearly. I basically agree with pretty much everything she's written, without far more specific information there's not a lot we can comment on.

The distances covered are pretty standard for that end of the Camino Norte. And 20 minutes to a restaurant in some towns is not at all unreasonable.

Presumably you were given information as to staging etc before signing up for this, if not I'm surprised you didn't ask.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

The distances covered are pretty standard for that end of the Camino Norte. And 20 minutes to a restaurant in some towns is not at all unreasonable.

Are you sure? The OP said miles. 25 miles is 40km, which does seem a very long stage to me.

 

[Vacajoe]

Just walked the Norte, including that section. There are a few stages where you must walk that long, especially in the current “off season” before summer when more accommodations are open. Not sure why they’d walk until midnight unless they are taking really long meals, starting at noon, or walking very very slowly. Overall (and based on the limited info provided), those distances are not outrageous for that area. In the future, consider the itinerary and one’s personal ability before purchasing a tour service like that.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Are you sure? The OP said miles. 25 miles is 40km, which does seem a very long stage to me.

I thought much the same so I checked my guide before answering. An example:
Baamonde - Sobrado is 26 miles. (Which I agree is a long stage)

Edited to add: @Vacajoe responded whilst I was writing, confirming that guidebooks and reality seem to agree!

Obviously it depends on how somebody has worked out their staging, but the combined overall distances above are roughly right. (I work in kilometres but it's easy to convert).
Are they the stages I would have walked - no. But I have no idea what went into the decision making processes. And booking for a group is significantly different to walking alone

 

[C clearly]

I would add that the experience might have been totally unacceptable, and the leader incompetent. You mention some clues, and there are undoubtedly some bad group organizers. However, the information is very incomplete and third hand. I am very reluctant to jump to any conclusion, especially a trashing, without hearing both sides.

For more forum discussion of "travel-agencies/groups" see the tag of the same name that I've added under the title of this thread.

 

[J Willhaus]

How did they pick this route? Why did they have a group guide? When planning your own Camino you can make more choices on your own. We are 62 and 73 and rarely walk long distances (usually 10 or 12 miles per day), but we select routes which accommodate our choices. We rarely make reservations, carry our own packs most days, and cook for ourselves often. This does not sound like the kind of Camino your husband experienced so it might not be appropriate for comparison

You can leave a bad review for guide if you are not satisfied.

 

[Kathor1]

This was their schedule: ( Caridad) to Santiago in 9 straight days : 15, 21, 25, 18, 15, 15, 15, 6 miles a day.

I have not walked the Norte but I looked at Gronze.com and at the distances listed there.

The distance from La Caridad to Santiago is about (more or less) 200 km or 130 miles. Correct?

You write "9 straight days". However, only 8 daily distances are listed. I added them up and got 130 miles / 208 km.

Assuming that all this is accurate, I would say that 15 miles / 24 km is commonly regarded as an average daily walking distance. 21 miles / 33 km and 25 miles / 40 km is way too much for walkers who do not exercise regularly and did not walk thousands of kilometres in recent years.

I don't know whether you and/or your husband plan any future Camino walks so I refrained from advice for the future and focused on this recent experience.

But, yes, there are people who act as a group guide for a long-distance walking experience and who do not have sufficient qualification or experience for organising or guiding groups in a good way.

 

[C clearly]

You can leave a bad review for guide if you are not satisfied.

I assume you are thinking about reviews on Google, or on travel websites that are designed to collect reviews of travel businesses. The forum is not really set up that way.

 

[mmepoq1]

Hello,
Thanks for your responses.

The group was a men’s group from church. When my husband first talked about going he said their leader was someone who had done El Camino many times, and I just thought he was a member of the group. He actually belongs to a different parish and is a travel agent. (Second career) The priest chose him.

I’m not sure when they saw the itinerary but I could see no one questioning it because they trusted their guide. To prepare they did one 20 mile walk and many many 10-12 miles. My husband hired a personal trainer to build up his leg muscles.

One day they knew they wouldn’t leave until noon because Fr was concelebrating Mass.
But that was a 21 mike hike day, which makes no sense to me ( all the masses were planned in advance). The other midnight day was rain and slow walking due to it, and someone getting hurt.

To me it seems a poor choice of route and a not well planned itinerary. My husband is not the type to complain, I don’t think any of them are. They walked as pilgrims and brought prayer intentions from the parish.

It makes me sad that they started past the most scenic part. I thought the pictures they sent were nice, but nothing to write home about.

I’m more upset than he is. I love to plan. We have traveled extensively both domestically and in Europe and Central America. I have never used an agent, in fact I didn’t even know that was still a thing. We move around when we are in a country, there’s lots of coordinating train schedules, reservations and the like.

Again, just wondering if I am justified in my thoughts on the trip. The guide is going again in a few weeks and I think someone should post their experience- just the facts,
so people know what it’s like.

 

[J Willhaus]

I assume you are thinking about reviews on Google, or on travel websites that are designed to collect reviews of travel businesses. The forum is not really set up that way.

Yes, that is what I meant.

 

[C clearly]

They walked as pilgrims and brought prayer intentions from the parish.

That seems like the most important thing. The scenery was secondary. Did they get satisfaction and joy from the experience?

To me it seems a poor choice of route and a not well planned itinerary.

Yes, that may be, but nobody asked me to make suggestions. The "itinerary/plan" for a pilgrimage may be quite different from that of a vacation. Perhaps the hardships introduced by "poor" planning actually were lessons and benefits in themselves.

It also sounds like the leader may not have been experienced on the Camino and was selected for other reasons, rather than because he presented himself as a Camino tour guide/operator who should be held accountable. Maybe he made mistakes and has learned something for next time. Maybe the tour group (your husband and/or the others) can give him some direct feedback, but it doesn't feel right for us bystanders to be assertive in our opinions about how they organized their pilgrimage.

 

[Bala]

Again, just wondering if I am justified in my thoughts on the trip. The guide is going again in a few weeks and I think someone should post their experience- just the facts,
so people know what it’s like.

If it were me, I would definitely write to the tour guide/travel agent with constructive suggestions on how things might have been done differently and why you feel that way. If the next group is going from your parish, I would also write to the priest who accompanied your husband's group with your concerns. If the tour is open to the general public there are places to write a review where potential pilgrims might see it.

As others have said, we don't know all the circumstances. But what you have written would certainly raise a lot of red flags for most experienced pilgrims - or hikers.

 

[John Sikora]

If you were limited on the number of days, then it is what it is. I've just arranged a walk of the del Norte in a few months and my legs over roughly that same distance (Navia is about 10K before La Caridad) is

Miles K

13.2	21.1	Navia
12.8	20.5	Tapa de Casariego
7.3	11.7	Ribadeo
0.0	0	Ribadeo
10.9	17.4	Villamartin Grande
11.0	17.6	Mondonedo
10.0	16	Abadin
13.1	21	Vilalba
12.5	20	Baamonde
9.4	15	Miraz
15.6	24.9	Sobrado dos Monxes
13.8	22.1	Arzua
12.1	19.3	Arca
12.6	20.1	Santiago De Compostela

I doubt that I will be walking anywhere near midnight. Perhaps, it's the difference between a travel agent and someone who can set up a customized route knowing the Camino intimately. Not trying to criticize the efforts of the agent, but on the lesser traveled areas within the lesser traveled Caminos, you really have to know what is available.

BTW, I'm 75 and my limit is about 15 miles per day (unless it is really flat) That was the objective that I had to build the itinerary.

 

[mmepoq1]

Most of the men are retired, there were a few students, so time of trip wasn’t an issue.
My husband said they have all forgiven the leader for his mistakes and a few other issues. yes, they are thrilled to have completed it, and some even had their prayers answered along the way.

The leader is next taking college kids on El Camino Portugués so it should be fine.

Since they are all ok with things now, I will be too.

 

[KiwiJohn]

Hi,
My husband, age 70, and a group of mainly 50 years up men, just finished a partial Camino del Norte. This was their schedule: ( Caridad) to Santiago in 9 straight days : 15, 21, 25, 18, 15, 15, 15, 6 miles a day. It was so remote they saw very few people, and passed through villages so small they often had to skip lunch. 2 sprained ankles and one case of tendonitis.

What do you think of this itinerary? To me, it seemed a poor choice of route for older guys who are not hikers.
They ended up with 3 full days in Santiago, but never had time to check out any of the places they stayed along they stayed along the way. Theyb would get late starts and twice were still walking at midnight! A travel agent was the leader. He would pick expensive places to eat that involved walking 20 minutes to get there! Never any foot rest.

To me, it’s an insane schedule. Your thoughts?

One should not be on the trail at midnight. Crazy distances, especially the 21 and 25 mile efforts.
As a 72 year old, I averaged 25km per day on the last year's Francés completing the distance in 31 days.

 

[Canche]

Hi,
My husband, age 70, and a group of mainly 50 years up men, just finished a partial Camino del Norte. This was their schedule: ( Caridad) to Santiago in 9 straight days : 15, 21, 25, 18, 15, 15, 15, 6 miles a day. It was so remote they saw very few people, and passed through villages so small they often had to skip lunch. 2 sprained ankles and one case of tendonitis.

What do you think of this itinerary? To me, it seemed a poor choice of route for older guys who are not hikers.
They ended up with 3 full days in Santiago, but never had time to check out any of the places they stayed along they stayed along the way. Theyb would get late starts and twice were still walking at midnight! A travel agent was the leader. He would pick expensive places to eat that involved walking 20 minutes to get there! Never any foot rest.

To me, it’s an insane schedule. Your thoughts?

Yep a little insane.