Is my guide book accurate?

[Bert45]

I have an old guide to the Camino Francés, “The Pilgrim Route to Compostela in Search of St James”. It is an English edition (1990) based on “Le Chemin de Saint Jacques de Compostelle” (1989).

The book says that in Ligonde “Facing No 7 is a house showing the name 'Nabal del Hospital.' I have searched Ligonde and not found a house showing that name.

The book also says that in Boente “there are some noble houses belonging to the Altamira family, with the arms bearing wolf-heads, and an old bridge.” I have searched that village and not found noble houses, arms or an old bridge.

I cannot believe that the authors (Abbe G Bernes, Georges Veron, and L Laborde Balen) made up these facts, but I have not been able to find any trace of them on the internet, either. Do you have any ideas as to where these items may be found?

 

[J Willhaus]

I think Ligonde is the town where there was an ancient pilgrim hospital and also a pilgrim cemetery. There were signs posted to that effect in front of a building and a field when I went through this summer and winter.
Here are some pictures from Google:

Cementerio de Peregrinos · Lugar Ligonde, 18, 27568 Ligonde, Lugo, Spain

âââââ · Cultural landmark

www.google.com

Can't say about Boente.

 

[Bradypus]

Both the coats of arms and the house name "Nabal del Hospital" are mentioned in the Gitlitz & Davidson book "The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago".



Gitlitz & Davidson also mention a Roman bridge near Boente

 

[David Tallan]

I have an old guide to the Camino Francés, “The Pilgrim Route to Compostela in Search of St James”. It is an English edition (1990) based on “Le Chemin de Saint Jacques de Compostelle” (1989).

The book says that in Ligonde “Facing No 7 is a house showing the name 'Nabal del Hospital.' I have searched Ligonde and not found a house showing that name.

The book also says that in Boente “there are some noble houses belonging to the Altamira family, with the arms bearing wolf-heads, and an old bridge.” I have searched that village and not found noble houses, arms or an old bridge.

I cannot believe that the authors (Abbe G Bernes, Georges Veron, and L Laborde Balen) made up these facts, but I have not been able to find any trace of them on the internet, either. Do you have any ideas as to where these items may be found?

I have the same guide book. I know that this may come as a shock to you, but some things may have changed in the 34 years since 1990 (or the 35 years since the French book upon which it is based was published). For example, if you look at the entry for O Cebreiro you will see only one inn mentioned, which no longer seems to exist, but no mention of the albergues and hotels and pensions that the village is filled with now. Things have changed.

I enjoy the book because it reminds me of my first Camino in 1989, but I don't look to it as a source for what I am currently likely to find.

 

[Bradypus]

I enjoy the book because it reminds me of my first Camino in 1989, but I don't look to it as a source for what I am currently likely to find.

To be fair coats of arms carved in stone on the outside of a house dating from at least 1520 or a Roman bridge are quite likely to have survived the extra 30-something years and still be there to be seen. There is a very non-descript square block of a building in Ligonde visible on Google Maps Streetview labelled "Hospital do Peregrinos" which might perhaps be Gitlitz's "unprepossessing" building.

I have the copy of Elias Valiña's guidebook which he autographed for my mother-in-law in Santiago in 1985. Currently in storage unfortunately. I used it for my first two Caminos. Some of the historical information is still helpful but I would agree that as a practical handbook for travel it does need a little updating.

 

[Bert45]

Thank you to those who have replied. Things do change, it's true, but I would not expect a house showing the name 'Nabal del Hospital' to disappear. I found the only house in Ligonde that could be No 7. It seemed to be the only house that didn't have a number displayed, but it was between 6 and 8 or 5 and 9, I can't remember now. 'Nabal' means turnip field or vegetable garden, btw. The fact that it is mentioned in Gitlitz and Davidson's book is encouraging, though the description of its location is opposite to what I have: whereas my book says the building is opposite No 7, G&D say the building I'd like to find is No 7, opposite the church. Furthermore, G&D do not say that the house shows the name, but that it is merely called that. I'll take that. But most significant, I think, is that G&D put the house in Eirexe de Ligonde. Ligonde Ligonde does not have a church.
As for Boente, it could be that 'noble houses' have been demolished.

 

[dougfitz]

I have an old guide to the Camino Francés, “The Pilgrim Route to Compostela in Search of St James”. It is an English edition (1990) based on “Le Chemin de Saint Jacques de Compostelle” (1989).

The book says that in Ligonde “Facing No 7 is a house showing the name 'Nabal del Hospital.' I have searched Ligonde and not found a house showing that name.

The book also says that in Boente “there are some noble houses belonging to the Altamira family, with the arms bearing wolf-heads, and an old bridge.” I have searched that village and not found noble houses, arms or an old bridge.

I cannot believe that the authors (Abbe G Bernes, Georges Veron, and L Laborde Balen) made up these facts, but I have not been able to find any trace of them on the internet, either. Do you have any ideas as to where these items may be found?

@Bert45, what an entertaining question. I am not going to be of any help, but it seems I am going to be fascinated by the answers you get from forum members much more erudite than I am.

 

[WGroleau]

For some guides, "updated" apparently means they changed the date on the cover. In 2016, the Michelin Guide for that year did not mention an albergue that had been there twenty years, but it did mention a parochial in the same village that had actually not exiswted for five years.

 

[Kathor1]

I googled around a bit, including looking at websites in French and Galician.

These assumptions in the thread appear to be wrong or at least doubtful: that “nabal” means turnip field or vegetable garden. In the given context, it is a toponym that has been in use since the Middle Ages in Galicia, and the meaning is not clear; that there is a house in either Ligonde Ligonde or in Ligonde Airexe (Eirexe) with the name Nabal del Hospital or Nabal do Hospital written on it. It is a house or a farm or a plot of land that is (or was known in the past) under this name.

 

[Kathor1]

For some guides, "updated" apparently means they changed the date on the cover. In 2016, the Michelin Guide for that year did not mention an albergue that had been there twenty years, but it did mention a parochial in the same village that had actually not exiswted for five years.

Well, in this thread we are talking about the English translation of a French book with Bernés as the principal author and Véron and Laborde Balen as co-authors, and if I feel like it I might go and have a look at the 1986 French edition next week to see what it says exactly in the original version :

 

[Bert45]

Well, in this thread we are talking about the English translation of a French book with Bernés as the principal author and Véron and Laborde Balen as co-authors, and if I feel like it I might go and have a look at the 1986 French edition next week to see what it says exactly in the original version :

View attachment 163714

I thought it was hardly worth mentioning that my book was based on the second (revised) edition of the original. If you wonder about the accuracy of the description of the route, check out what they say about the Dragonte route: "... after trying three tracks though (sic) scrubland, the search for the route had to be abandoned."

 

[Kathor1]

I thought it was hardly worth mentioning that my book was based on the second (revised) edition of the original. If you wonder about the accuracy of the description of the route, check out what they say about the Dragonte route: "... after trying three tracks though (sic) scrubland, the search for the route had to be abandoned."

These books are guidebooks and not detailed scholarly studies based on hours and hours of original own research.

The main author, Abbé Georges Bernès, was one of the French pioneers in making the pilgrimage and the pilgrimage roads to Saint James in Galicia known again after the horrors of World War II. He died at the age of 96 in 2017 - born in 1921! Of course not everything written in these guidebooks about the history of the pilgrimage and the pilgrimage roads is accurate, how could it.

I had a chance to watch a presentation of the movie / documentary about the Camino Francés that he had produced around 1950. A different world altogether.

 

[Kathor1]

I am not sure that I understand the question: Is it about which guidebook(s) are inaccurate and to which extent? Is it about what is known about the former pilgrim hospital in Ligonde (Monterroso / Spain) of which no visible trace can be found on the ground? About what the original sources are for our current knowledge about the existence of this former hospital in Ligonde? Is it about the location of this former hospital?

I found this: https://ficheiros-web.xunta.gal/pat...ANCES/07_MONTERROSO/01_MEMORIA_MONTERROSO.pdf

It has been published by the Xunta of Galicia but it is not some general information website or other cobbled together by a tourism office or a local townhall employee. It is a file that identifies "patrimonial elements linked to the Camino to Santiago" in Galicia for the purpose of defining the area that is legally protected as Camino de Santiago. It ought to allow pinpointing of exact locations. The text has also a remark about Charles I of Spain / Charles V of the Holy Roman Empire and Ligonde. Lots of photos, too.

 

[Bert45]

Kathar1na wrote: I am not sure that I understand the question: Is it about which guidebook(s) are inaccurate and to which extent? Is it about what is known about the former pilgrim hospital in Ligonde (Monterroso / Spain) of which no visible trace can be found on the ground? About what the original sources are for our current knowledge about the existence of this former hospital in Ligonde? Is it about the location of this former hospital?
I suffer from a mild form of OCD. If a guide book says that there is something to see, I want to see it. So I just want to see the house with 'Nabal del Hospital' written on it. It doesn't matter to me what 'nabal' means – I got the translation from Wiktionary. So I hoped someone could tell me exactly where it is (or, sadly, was). I want to find the 'noble houses' with 'arms bearing wolf-heads' in Boente. Since I couldn't find them, I hoped someone could tell me where they are/were. I have emailed relevant tourist offices, but had no replies. The absence of information about these items on the internet almost makes me think that the author(s) must have made them up.

 

[Kathor1]

If a guide book says that there is something to see, I want to see it.

I understand this. I myself can be interested in minute details but I don't have the need to see an artefact or a site at all cost, especially when it is of such minor importance. I am more interested in historical context and what we know with certainty and why. I can live with uncertainty, or a contradiction in documentary or interpretative sources, and not knowing in more detail.

Context and language can help to create understanding. I wonder what "arms bearing wolf-heads" sound like in the original version.

The "noble houses" must be pazos.

Boente is a parroquia consisting of Boente de Abaixo, Boente de Arriba, Martulo, Outeiro, Os Pazos and A Peroxa. Did you search in all of them for the noble houses?

The "arms" (Spanish: escudo de armas or just armas; English: coat of arms) of the Count of Altamira contains a wolf head - see below - but arms bearing wolf-heads??? That sounds like another linguistic mix up or misunderstanding.

 

[C clearly]

These books are guidebooks and not detailed scholarly studies based on hours and hours of original own research.

This is an important point - when reading a piece of information, we need to consider the author's purpose and the context. We do the same when we listen to people talking about their experiences, or when we read news from different sources. Not all the important facts are contained in the words spoken or written! That adds a whole level of complication/interpretation, that makes things difficult for people who tend to be literal.

If a guide book says that there is something to see, I want to see it. So I just want to see the house with 'Nabal del Hospital' written on it.

 

[Bert45]

"Boente is a parroquia consisting of Boente de Abaixo, Boente de Arriba, Martulo, Outeiro, Os Pazos and A Peroxa. Did you search in all of them for the noble houses?"
I knew about the first two, but not the other four. The detailed walking instructions actually refer to 'Boente de Riba'. I naively thought that the guide would only mention items of interest that were on the actual route that one might take through this village, or perhaps within a few hundred metres either side. This guide book I have found to be generally good and accurate. Of course, it does not describe the major sites in the greatest of detail – whole books have been written about León and Burgos Cathedrals and the Templar castle of Ponferrada – but it has many small quirky details that one might otherwise miss. I had no problem understanding that 'arms' referred to a coat-of-arms.

 

[dougfitz]

The absence of information about these items on the internet almost makes me think that the author(s) must have made them up.

It is interesting that you seem to put your faith in what might be arguably the least trustworthy source of reliable information. No doubt guidebooks can be inaccurate. The effluxion of time alone will allow many changes to take place, added to any initial inaccuracies despite the best efforts of authors and publishers.

But why would you think that the lack of evidence from the internet indicates that the authors of a guidebook have made things up. If anything, it seems misleading facts if not outright untruths are more likely to be published on the internet than any guidebook.

Even if you are searching on sources you think are reliable, not everything you might want to find is going to be online. It might be, in time and if someone is motivated to do the fundamental data collection, prepare it for publication in some fashion, and put it up on a site that will make it available. Even then, there is no guarantee that it will have an enduring presence. There is much that will be lost as sites age and cease to be maintained. There are several forum members who are quite talented at finding information like this in places like internet archives that I know exist, but don't have great skills myself in navigating.

 

[Bert45]

Dougfitz, I was being facetious when I said that I had almost begun to think that the authors had made the 'facts' up. I emphasised 'almost'. I know that the internet is unreliable. We had a long thread a while ago about the weight of charcoal put into the botafumeiro of SdC, which many internet pages averred was 40 kg or 88 lbs. I often find two contradictory versions of many items of interest on the internet. But the fact that I could not find one version of the narrative in my book on the internet was why I turned to this forum. Admittedly, the original book was published nearly 40 years ago, and many things have undoubtedly changed on the Camino Francés since then. However, it seemed unlikely to me that historic buildings, bearing ancient arms or inscriptions, having lasted for hundreds of years, would disappear without trace since the book was written.

 

[C clearly]

I could not find one version of the narrative in my book on the internet

Well, now, if someone is searching for the same thing, they WILL come across something on the internet -this thread!

 

[Bert45]

True, dat!

 

[dougfitz]

Dougfitz, I was being facetious when I said that I had almost begun to think that the authors had made the 'facts' up. I emphasised 'almost'. I know that the internet is unreliable. We had a long thread a while ago about the weight of charcoal put into the botafumeiro of SdC, which many internet pages averred was 40 kg or 88 lbs. I often find two contradictory versions of many items of interest on the internet. But the fact that I could not find one version of the narrative in my book on the internet was why I turned to this forum. Admittedly, the original book was published nearly 40 years ago, and many things have undoubtedly changed on the Camino Francés since then. However, it seemed unlikely to me that historic buildings, bearing ancient arms or inscriptions, having lasted for hundreds of years, would disappear without trace since the book was written.

Thank goodness! I think I must have been made a little tone deaf lately by another conversation with someone who seems to believe in the infallibility of the mapping from one of the better known IT industry 'giants'.

 

[Kathor1]

arms bearing wolf-heads

We may have never seen the noble houses with arms bearing wolf-heads in Boente and we don't know whether there are any left or whether they collapsed and have been torn down during the past 50 years or so but one can certainly see such coat of arms elsewhere in Galicia. There is one, it seems, in Finisterre, above the main portal of the church. Below is a photo, with a helpful drawing to decipher what is depicted in stone. I wonder whether it is mentioned in the Camino guidebooks :

(Click to enlarge)

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I've been following this thread because Bert supplies us with some terrific quests. I didn't pay it close enough attention though because I didn't remember the earlier post #3 by @Bradypus and so I made my own book search a few minutes ago. I found something similar to post #3 but shorter. What should have jumped out earlier in @Bradypus' post was that the church across from building #7 had a relief sculpture of Daniel between two lions. That was another quest that forum members were sent on ten years ago on this thread https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/missing-pilgrim.24269/
In the thread's post #90 by @Kathar1na the quest for the last days of a pilgrim turned into a quest for a church with Daniel and the lions. In the later posts (across two pages) the church was found at coordinates 42.863893,-7.787043 which Google Maps links to here https://goo.gl/maps/8QeQzzGjXY2GS2R57
A 360⁰ Streetview is available there.

 

[Kathor1]

So I went to a library with real books today. It is owned and managed by a Camino association with a history of some 40 years. With more than 2000 books related to the Camino and the pilgrimage to Santiago.

The list on their website said that they have guidebooks by Georges Bernès and his various co-authors published in 1982, 1986 and 1989. For those who have never heard of Abbé Bernès: he was widely known and highly respected in Camino circles of his time.

Alas. These old guidebooks are no longer there as it turned out. They were thrown out in the summer before last because they are old books that nobody reads and they only take up precious space. They are gone.

However, there were some other oldish books that I could consult about Ligonde. Perhaps more another time.

With some confidence I can answer the question at the start of this thread: As far as the topic in question in connection with Ligonde is concerned, both Abbé G. Bernes, Georges Veron and L Laborde Balen, as well as Gitlitz/Davidson are not accurate.

Eh oui.

 

[Blue Tang]

@Bert45, at the following link--- https://madillcamino2014.blogspot.com/2015/10/placeholder-saturday-september-20-2014.html --- I found this:


Airexe: Igrexa de Santiago – stone slab on S side (gl.wikipedia.org Cropped). [Photo omitted.]

Confusingly, this church is also known as Iglesia de Santiago de Ligonde (or Igrexa Parroquial de Santiago de Ligonde), because it is in the Parroquia [parish] of Ligonde, although its address is in Airexe (de Ligonde).
Opposite the church is an unpresupposing building locally called Nabal del Hospital or Casa do Rego. [A nabal (Galego for nabar in Castilian Spanish) is a field for planting turnips (nabos). In Galego, a rego is an arroyo or an irrigation ditch.] It was built as a pilgrim hospital and was still operating in the 18th century.
Up on the hill from the church are some of the first eucalyptus trees on the Camino route.

 

[Bert45]

Blue Tang, your excerpt from Don and Mary-Teresa's blog (2014) is almost word-for-word what Gitlitz and Davidson wrote in 1998 (see post #3). I would have thought that the G-D book was one of the "detailed scholarly studies based on hours and hours of original own research" that could be trusted, until I read Kathar1na's comment (post #25). You can't trust anybody! People just copy and paste without a care in the world. I don't want hours of original research if it's just reading what people have written before and repeating it. I was so naive; I thought someone writing a guide book would only describe things that the writer had seen.

 

[Kathor1]

@Bert45, a wild guess: Perhaps forum member @Mark Francis Auchincloss is the same person as the Mark Auchincloss who photographed the information board in Ligonde (see first photo below and https://g.co/kgs/PnJajYy - you may have to click on the map's place marker to see the photos). The associated photos show you where in Ligonde you can find the building with this information board (produced by the local administration of Monterroso to which Ligonde belongs). The board is on the wall of the farm building that is associated with "Nabal del/do hospital". Judging by what is scribbled on the frame in Spanish and English, one can only guess that the proprietors don't want to be bothered by pilgrims.

The houses in the Ligonde-Ligonde area are numbered from 1 upwards and the houses in the Ligonde-Airexe area are also numbered from 1 upwards. Hence presumably some of the confusion.

I've added photos of two other notice boards in Ligonde. None of this is in the Airexe part of Ligonde. Did you see these boards?

Marked as site of former pilgrim hospital in Ligonde:

(click to enlarge)

Marked as site of former pilgrim cemetery in Ligonde:


Marked as site of former medieval accommodation in Ligonde:

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I was so naive; I thought someone writing a guide book would only describe things that the writer had seen.

Bert, perhaps you may have heard of the Donner Party that got snowed in crossing the Sierra Nevada mountains on their trip to California in the mid 1800s. If you have heard of them then you must not know about the guide book they used full of lies that kept them from crossing the Sierras in time.

 

[Kathor1]

Oh, this is sheer endless fun .

You can see the house numbers of many buildings (not all but nearly all) in Ligonde-Airexe and in Ligonde-Ligonde:

https://www.idealista.com/maps/monterroso-lugo/lugar-airexe-pq-ligonde/

https://www.idealista.com/maps/monterroso-lugo/lugar-ligonde-pq-ligonde/

 

[Bert45]

Bert, perhaps you may have heard of the Donner Party that got snowed in crossing the Sierra Nevada mountains on their trip to California in the mid 1800s. If you have heard of them then you must not know about the guide book they used full of lies that kept them from crossing the Sierras in time.

Nope, Rick, never heard of it. But that was a long time ago; one might hope that guide books had improved by now (or even by 1986).

 

[Bert45]

Oh, this is sheer endless fun .

You can see the house numbers of many buildings (not all but nearly all) in Ligonde-Airexe and in Ligonde-Ligonde:

https://www.idealista.com/maps/monterroso-lugo/lugar-airexe-pq-ligonde/

https://www.idealista.com/maps/monterroso-lugo/lugar-ligonde-pq-ligonde/

I do my best.
The house numbers are interesting. I wonder how the postman copes.

 

[Bert45]

@Bert45, a wild guess: Perhaps forum member @Mark Francis Auchincloss is the same person as the Mark Auchincloss who photographed the information board in Ligonde (see first photo below and https://g.co/kgs/PnJajYy - you may have to click on the map's place marker to see the photos). The associated photos show you where in Ligonde you can find the building with this information board (produced by the local administration of Monterroso to which Ligonde belongs). The board is on the wall of the farm building that is associated with "Nabal del/do hospital". Judging by what is scribbled on the frame in Spanish and English, one can only guess that the proprietors don't want to be bothered by pilgrims.

The houses in the Ligonde-Ligonde area are numbered from 1 upwards and the houses in the Ligonde-Airexe area are also numbered from 1 upwards. Hence presumably some of the confusion.

I've added photos of two other notice boards in Ligonde. None of this is in the Airexe part of Ligonde. Did you see these boards?

Marked as site of former pilgrim hospital in Ligonde:
View attachment 163841
(click to enlarge)

Marked as site of former pilgrim cemetery in Ligonde:
View attachment 163842

Marked as site of former medieval accommodation in Ligonde:
View attachment 163843

The first and third photos are the same, aren't they? I'm sure I must have seen those boards (both of them). Why would the people of Ligonde Ligonde set aside a field for the burial of pilgrims (and only pilgrims)? [This is nothing to do with my original question, btw.] Surely there can't have been that many pilgrims who died in Ligonde Ligonde (or a kilometre or two either side.) I suppose over a thousand years or so they might mount up, a couple every year, perhaps. But would anybody in Ligonde Ligonde think of this? "Look, guys, we've got two dead pilgrims. They could be the first of many; we're going to need to set aside that field over there to make room for them all." Since Ligonde Ligonde does not have a church, would its residents who shuffled off this mortal coil be buried in the consecrated ground of the church of Ligonde Eirexe? Why wouldn't pilgrims be buried in the same place? I don't expect any answers, unless Dr Who reads this forum.

 

[Kathor1]

The first and third photos are the same, aren't they?

Apologies, I made a mistake when I uploaded the three photos of the noticeboards. I have now corrected my mistake. The three photos in post #28 are now three different photos.

 

[Kathor1]

@Bert45, let us ignore for the moment the question of why both Gitlitz/Davidson and Bernès, Vernon & Laborde Balen are inaccurate as to the details the location of a former pilgrims hospital in Ligonde.

I managed to get hold of the guidebook that Vernon & Laborde Balen published as co-authors for French-speaking pilgrims under the title Chemin de Saint-Jacques en Espagne. They thank the abbé Georges Bernès, curé de Tillac, auteur dès 1973 des premières éditions du Chemin de Saint Jacques de Compostelle en Espagne. So their book is a kind of new edition of the guidebook that your English edition is based on but Georges Bernès is no longer involved as author. It was published in the year 1999.

This is what they say (my translation from French):

LIGONDE (580 m) is currently very modest, but it is important because of its history. Let's take a look first. House #3 and, at #11, the Carneiro's (butcher's) house have preserved their medieval character, with 2 emblazoned stones. A little further on, at #17 [yes, #17 and not #7], is the home of the owners of the Nabal do Hospital farm, located on the other side of the road. ​

​

As the name suggests, this was the site of an important hospital, mentioned in the 1752 land register, and they were still suing their debtors in 1811! [...] The hospital was founded after the 12th century, at an unknown date, by the Ulloa family. It is mentioned by pilgrims in itineraries of the 15th century. [...]​

I am satisfied to think that this reflects the current state of knowledge about the existence and location of a pilgrim hospital with no tangible traces left today and about which we know only from a variety of historical documents. The locations of the three notice boards reflect this current state of knowledge, too.

 

[Kathor1]

The house numbers are interesting. I wonder how the postman copes.

That's what I thought, too, at first . I had already suspected that the houses in this small Galician village were numbered in a kind of messy way. That is why things in rural Galicia and in rural northern Spain in general often feel so familiar to me: they are just the same as things in the rural area where I grew up more than a 1000 miles away.

The houses in my village were numbered in a similar haphazard fashion. Then the local or regional administration decided to attribute official names to all the streets and all the houses were renumbered in an orderly fashion and people had to get new number plates for their houses. Our house went from being house #13 to being house #9 during my lifetime. The postman, and later the postwoman, knew every inhabitant by name. They did not need street names and house numbers to find the recipient of a letter. I guess it is the same in Ligonde with apparently around 200 inhabitants. In small villages, everybody knows everybody living there. And we who pass through know very little about them.

 

[Bert45]

@Bert45, let us ignore for the moment the question of why both Gitlitz/Davidson and Bernès, Vernon & Laborde Balen are inaccurate as to the details the location of a former pilgrims hospital in Ligonde.

I managed to get hold of the guidebook that Vernon & Laborde Balen published as co-authors for French-speaking pilgrims under the title Chemin de Saint-Jacques en Espagne. They thank the abbé Georges Bernès, curé de Tillac, auteur dès 1973 des premières éditions du Chemin de Saint Jacques de Compostelle en Espagne. So their book is a kind of new edition of the guidebook that your English edition is based on but Georges Bernès is no longer involved as author. It was published in the year 1999.

This is what they say (my translation from French):

LIGONDE (580 m) is currently very modest, but it is important because of its history. Let's take a look first. House #3 and, at #11, the Carneiro's (butcher's) house have preserved their medieval character, with 2 emblazoned stones. A little further on, at #17 [yes, #17 and not #7], is the home of the owners of the Nabal do Hospital farm, located on the other side of the road. ​

​

As the name suggests, this was the site of an important hospital, mentioned in the 1752 land register, and they were still suing their debtors in 1811! [...] The hospital was founded after the 12th century, at an unknown date, by the Ulloa family. It is mentioned by pilgrims in itineraries of the 15th century. [...]​

I am satisfied to think that this reflects the current state of knowledge about the existence and location of a pilgrim hospital with no tangible traces left today and about which we know only from a variety of historical documents. The locations of the three notice boards reflect this current state of knowledge, too.

Wow, Katar1na! You really go the extra mile! I hope you can add 1.61 km to any number on your distance certificate (if you have one).
So it's a typo! Not #7 but #17 (maybe). And Nabal del (or do) Hospital is not opposite #17 but is #17. Whether that is opposite the church or not remains to be seen. Katar1na's post #28 seems to me to imply that 'Nabal del Hospital' is a farm now on the site of the hospital (CMIIW) with the board saying 'Hospital dos Peregrinos'. How frustrating that #17 is missing from the list of properties in Ligonde Ligonde. According to that same property site, the house with the board saying 'Hospital dos Peregrinos' is #21. And it's on the same side of the road as Casa de Carneiro. Which doesn't help. I don't speak enough Spanish and even less Galician to be able to ask any questions of the residents of the village. But perhaps there may be someone at the Albergue La Fuente del Peregrino who speaks English. The property site says that the plot of land with Casa de Carneiro is #11, but the photo bears no resemblance to any view of the property on Streetview.

 

[Kathor1]

go the extra mile!

Sometimes I can't stand some of the inaccuracies that I read on the forum but I am working on reaching a higher level of tolerance.

In conclusion:

Don't take what you read in guidebooks, even the good ones, too literal. Information can be inaccurate or out of date when new information has become available. If you wish to know for certain you have to trace information back to the primary source, for example to documents that are 600 and more years old and hard to find online. Don't expect tourism offices, town halls and the local population to know more than what you have read.

There are three notice boards in Ligonde Ligonde and one in Ligonde Airexe. The logo of the Concello of Monterroso is on them. They all have the same background which is a photo of the Cruceiro de Lameiros. This cross is in the vicinity and quite beautiful and special.

It is known that there was once a pilgrim hospital in Ligonde and it is known that it had its own cemetery. There is nothing unusual about this. As in other countries in Europe, so also in northern Spain along the Camino to Santiago: foreigners who died in a village or town far from home were not always buried in the local cemetery but in a separate area outside of it. Medieval hospitals who cared for travellers and for the poor often had their own cemetery area nearby.

There are no traces left today in Ligonde of either the pilgrim hospital or the pilgrim cemetery. Old documents such as land registers, contracts about sales and donations, and disputes before courts and names of fields and/or farms are all that is left as silent testimonials of their existence hundreds of years ago.

A fourth notice board in Ligonde can be found near the church of Ligonde in the "lugar" Airexe. It says this (translated from Spanish): medieval semi-anthropoid sarcophagus; church with Romanesque parts and Preromanesque sepulchre (1100); cross; rectory house. And that is all there is to see in Airexe.

Location of 3 notice boards in main part of Ligonde:


Notice board in Ligonde-Airexe:

 

[Kathor1]

The property site says that the plot of land with Casa de Carneiro is #11, but the photo bears no resemblance to any view of the property on Streetview.

You did not look at all the views of the property. There are no discrepancies.

Walk around again in Google Streetview. Leave the Camino trail, walk around the corner to turn into road LU-P-3305 and check what the building with #11 in the property register looks like from this side. See? And isn't the internet amazing? Without it we would not even guess what belongs to which property and to which house number - whether we walk around on Google Streetview or on the actual streets of Ligonde.

 

[Bert45]

Oh! As I approach that corner the views are from August 2023, and there is the steel 'basket' on that window, and there is the 'roof' over the entrance to the yard behind the house. (Which I hadn't noticed before.) But when I go down LU-P-3305, I am looking at the house as it was in July 2012, and it looks completely different! (No basket on the window, no 'roof' over the entrance to the yard.) How can your internet be more up-to-date than my internet? But, also, when I turn down LU-P-3305, I can see a number over the door of the house on the corner that is not included in the plot of #11 on the Idealista map. The number is 11! Let's not go down that rabbit-hole.

 

[Kathor1]

How can your internet be more up-to-date than my internet?

Huh?

Of course I can see that the part of the property that is facing the street perpendicular to the street of the Camino trail has been renovated since 2012. Is this relevant for locating the notice boards on a map or in Google Earth or in the real world?

I think that anyone who has followed their inclination to stay with this thread until now and who will walk through Ligonde in the future is on high alert and will spot the three notice boards without a map, without Google Earth and without a guidebook, whether published in 1976, 1989, 1990 or 2024.

Buen Camino to all!

 

[Bert45]

How can your internet be more up-to-date than my internet?

Huh?
I thought that you meant that when you turned down LU-P-3305 you saw the house as renovated, whereas, when I turned down that road I saw the house as it was in 2012. I acknowledge that this has nothing to do with the original question, it's just one of several diversions. But you started it, by giving links to Idealista. Yes, we've given peregrinos plenty to look out for in future caminos.

 

[AlexKramer]

Hello everyone What an interesting topic! I even registered to take part)) The fact is that I also tried to find truthful information about this village and found this forum. The first question that confused me was the church, which I did not find, although I went around the whole village from beginning to end. Now I understand, she's just further away. The hospital is also not very clear. Some sources say that it was adjacent to the pilgrim cemetery, but a sign indicating the hospital hangs at a distance from the cemetery, let's say on another house. In general, this is one of the most confusing locations on Camino de Santiago. I am glad that I found this forum of like-minded people!