Help me review this packing list for my students

[J Willhaus]

Hi Pilgrims,
Some of you may remember that I am taking a group of 10 nursing students on a study abroad over the Christmas break. I am retiring in the Spring so the school asked me to do this with another instructor so they can keep offering the course after I retire. We only have time to do Sarria to Santiago. I walked this route again last summer as a recon and know the places we will likely stop and things we will see and visit. We will be walking the route over 7 days which gives time for class work and seeing some sights along the way. We'll spend a couple of nights in Santiago, one in Muxia, and end with 2 nights in Madrid. This is a 2-credit class on self-care. As a pilgrim myself, I know what I need to pack, but I need to have a formal list for these new inexperienced pilgrims. Many of these students may have never been outside the US before so please take a look at this and let me know if it makes sense. Some background: We are walking and no pack shipping. It is a 2 week late Dec. and early Jan. trip so staying mostly in Xunta albergues which are open 365 days a year. Hope we will get to celebrate some Spanish traditions such as 3 Kings Day in communities. We are required to have 2-4 hour meetings before we travel and we'll have one 4 hour meeting when we return. There are be specific assignments such as student-led group discussions (in the evenings after walking), 5 reflections that will be either written or voice recorded and turned in upon our return, etc. This is what I have prepared for the packing list document below. I know many of you like a good packing list so your constructive feedback is appreciated.

Tips​

To avoid checking your backpack do not take any knives, hiking poles, etc. in your backpack so you can carry it onboard. Your backpack generally should not weigh more than 10% of your body weight when packed. Backpacks between 30 and 40 liters will be big enough. A pack cover is advised if you do not have a rain poncho that will cover your pack. If you take a pack that is too big it will be heavier, and you will likely fill it up with more stuff unless you are extremely disciplined. You can buy a bottle of water bottle in Spain and just keep refilling it. No need to bring one from home and this saves weight. They will also give you little water bottles on the plane so you may not even need to buy one later.

Clothes should be made of quick drying material such as merino or polypro (cotton and jeans are not recommended).

Winter Camino Packing list ​

• One pair of walking pants

• 2 long sleeved shirts/sweaters

• One short sleeved shirt

• One pair comfortable evening pants

• 3 pair hiking/walking socks

• 3 pr underwear

• 1 or 2 bras (if applicable

• 1 sleepshirt and shorts/tights for sleeping (optional: some people just sleep in their walking clothes to save time dressing in the morning)

• 3 seasons sleeping bag

• 1 camp towel

• Hiking shoes/boots (make sure you try these on some hikes at home first) I wear midheight gortex boots in the winter, but trail runner can also work.

• Evening shoes (sandals, crocs, oofoos—something to give your feet a break.)

• Toiletries (use travel sized shampoo/soap, travel sized toothpaste, toothbrush, deodorant, sunscreen, lip balm, comb/brush) We keep ours in a Ziplock bag to save weight. You can buy more in Spain if you run out. Make up, perfumes, lots of hair care products are not needed and are heavy to carry.

• Feminine hygiene supplies as applicable

• ¼ of a laundry bar in a Ziplock sandwich bag (a little goes a long way) Just buy one and cut it in half/quarters and share with a friend

• Rain poncho or raincoat /rain pants recommended in winter

• Light winter coat/jacket (synthetic)

• Stocking cap or warm ear band

• Light gloves

• Buff or neck gaiter

Optional​

• Stuff sack or dry bag for clothes (can double as a pillow if you have your clothes in it)

• Headlamp for hiking in early morning before light

• Large safety pins to hang clothes on clothesline (or your backpack when walking) to dry

• Cup (microwavable: mine is from Walmart 12 oz, no handle), spork

• Scarf (scarf also works for a pillowcase, extra blanket, etc.)

• Hiking poles (not really needed for this part of the Camino, but you can buy them before we begin in Spain if needed)

• Sunglasses

• Phone and apps (you can either pay your US phone company for access to international calls and data, buy a new Sim Card in Spain, or rely only on wifi at albergues and bars) Good Apps are WisePilgrim and Buen Camino for the Camino Frances. WhatsApp for communication. Google Translate if you do not speak Spanish

• Plug adapter for Spain to charge phone/devices.

• Ear buds if you want them for music

• Small pack of tissue (you can buy more in Spain, but works as toilet paper, too, if needed)

• A few Plastic Ziplock bags of assorted sizes (sandwich, quart, gallon)

• Small notebook and pen (journal, extra paper for notes)

• Chico bag or similar (made from recycled water bottles and rolls up in a tiny ball) for laundry bag/grocery bag/etc.

Important/not optional ​

• Passport (must be good for 6 months after we travel)

• Pilgrim credential (Janet will supply)

• ATM card to get Cash/Euros from an ATM .

• Credit card (fees are less than ATM)

• Coin purse or Ziplock bag for small amount of Euros used for daily spending, keep in your pocket or handy for purchases like coffee, etc.

• Some kind of neck or waist wallet for extra Euros, US money, ATM card, credit card, phone (This should never leave your person. Always take it with you even to the shower. Keep it inside your sleeping bag at night)

 

[J Willhaus]

Forgot to add

• Medications (if applicable)

 

[henrythedog]

Good list Janet - clearly you’ve done this before.

Does everyone know what a spork is?

Is a 3-season bag necessary in Spain even in mid-winter?

If your clients have not flown internationally before they might want more guidance than just ‘no pole or knives’. I assume it’s carry-on only?

 

[J Willhaus]

Good list Janet - clearly you’ve done this before.

Does everyone know what a spork is?

Is a 3-season bag necessary in Spain even in mid-winter?

If your clients have not flown internationally before they might want more guidance than just ‘no pole or knives’. I assume it’s carry-on only?

Thanks @henrythedog ,
We do have 8 hours of meeting time before we leave to travel. My husband, Phil, is suggesting I do a military style showdown where I name the required item and have everyone raise it up over their head so I can see they have it. "Show me your passport" etc. He used to be a training company commander (and also prior enlisted). I am also prior military, but the nurse corps did things a bit differently than combat arms and combat service support.

I am pretty sure they will know what a spork it as so far every single applicant has told me they are avid hikers/campers, but I will clarify with a photo if I need to. These students live in Wyoming which is a frontier state in the Mountains with very low population. It is also VERY cold here in the winter and the roads are often closed in and out of our valley for up to a couple of weeks at a time. They are probably all much more hale and hearty than I am...and most already have equipment they can use. They can also rent from the University's Outdoor Recreation department.

I do think a sleeping bag will be needed and more than a silk liner in the winter. A lot of times they turn off the heat in the albergue after everyone goes to bed (at least at the ones where I have worked). There won't be blankets at the Xunta albergues or at least I have not seen any with blankets. The heaters tended to be located right by the front bunks in the ones we stayed at this summer and none further back in the dorms. I have one or two lightweight extra bags to lend if needed by someone.

Yes, I am recommending all carry on luggage although students will book their own flights and meet me in Madrid. I know some will want to travel on the same flight with my co-teacher and I. Most international flights from where we live will allow a checked bag (sometimes 2) at no additional cost. We are only there for 2 weeks and I don't want them to bring too much stuff.

 

[cruiser75]

Personally I found a poncho was the best performer as a pack cover and a rain coat.
I have a pack cover which doubles as a travel bag for my backpack for planes. I used this twice as a rain cover and then never took it out again. The poncho was good enough.
Next time I'll try to take my pack as carry on and not bring the cover.

 

[sebastian606]

Medications should be in their appropriate container. To save weight, I got my pharmacy to print prescription labels and I affixed the labels to sandwich size zip lock bags. And put the number of tablets or capsules needed in each bag. This way, I have a legal prescription label identifying my medications. I kept my injectable diabetic meds in their original packaging.

 

[J Willhaus]

Personally I found a poncho was the best performer as a pack cover and a rain coat.
I have a pack cover which doubles as a travel bag for my backpack for planes. I used this twice as a rain cover and then never took it out again. The poncho was good enough.
Next time I'll try to take my pack as carry on and not bring the cover.

Yes, it rains a lot in Galicia in the winter so I am recommending a poncho, but we won't be able to buy the good Altus ponchos here in the US. I have one though. Many of them will already have some kind of rain gear, I expect, as so far everyone one on the application list has a lot of hiking/camping experience.

 

[J Willhaus]

Medications should be in their appropriate container. To save weight, I got my pharmacy to print prescription labels and I affixed the labels to sandwich size zip lock bags. And put the number of tablets or capsules needed in each bag. This way, I have a legal prescription label identifying my medications. I kept my injectable diabetic meds in their original packaging.

Thanks for that reminder. Our pharmacy will also print the labels so I will give that tip as well.

 

[David]

Good stuff - and good for you. These things are always Acts of Good. Good tips by the way.

Sure, I would change things ( no reason really, just cannot not respond to a list! ).

Normally I would cut everything down to "wear one, pack one" but I know nothing about a December Camino except that in Galicia it will probably be cold and maybe wet so is your 3rd items options in case things don't dry?

Thing is - yours is a seven day walk - they could all wear the same stuff for the seven days and put on the clean spares after arriving in Santiago. Who cares if you get a little not clean, with showers the bodies will be clean. Is only seven days in winter, so I would still drop the third option on all packing items.
Though I can see that they could want post-Camino Madrid leisure/pleasure clothing. Could you arrange a big box send to Ivar in Santiago so it is there to collect, rather than they all carrying it?

I would also go for at least one heavier sweater item or fleece and a woolly hat - alternative would be a set of thermal underwear, which take up little space or weight.
I was SO cold in April in Navarra one year ... late April and was like January .. wore all my clothes even inside my sleeping bag ... and during the day wore everything I had with me, maxed at 3C! eventually I became ill and had to give up the first aid mission and go home - I SO wished I had a three season bag and thermals with me, damn the extra weight! - so I would say keep a really good eye on the weather forecasts as you get closer to and have the "bring this stuff" late message ready if it looks seriously cold.

Re safety pins - if I could suggest nappy pins? (diaper pins) as they lock and are superior to ordinary safety pins.

Re the ear buds? I would encourage no music at all but to immerse into the world around them.
Also to tell their friends and family only to get in touch via text if an emergency and for them to only switch their phones on every evening for a couple of minutes to see if anything has come in and then switch them off - BE there, not at home.

A spoon of some sort - is a real problem buying yoghurt or ice cream or similar and then using fingers to eat it - ideally a Spork, fork and spoon in one! - I don't know how old they are but I always carry a corkscrew (actually a Swiss army knife with corkscrew, scissors, tweezers, toothpick, blades, etc).

Waterpoof gripseal bag that can take their credential - very sad if it gets soaked.

Keep the tissues in a gripseal bag too.

I would SO like to know what ten student nurses take along as their first aid kits!!

J.W. - you have really thought this out and I think it is wonderful, what you are doing! You seem seasoned but I would suggest ... I see that they say they are seasoned hikers, but - young people tend to hide problems so although you probably already know this ... a daily chat re feet health and so on .. an eye on each one so that you can take them aside for a chat if they don't seem as bright or happy as the others? - Oh! and your own personal blister, etc, first aid kit so that you can properly look after them.

Good luck - enjoy! Please don't see anything I have written as negative - only kind responses to your request. God Bless.

p.s. - I am so with you re poncho over raincoat! and pack covers don't work.. with a raincoat rain runs down the back, soaking the pack, and capillary action helps move wet from shoulder straps into the bags too. Good ponchos all the way!!

 

[trecile]

I am recommending a poncho, but we won't be able to buy the good Altus ponchos here in the US.

They can order the Altus poncho from this online store.

Altus Atmospheric H30 Poncho Blue | Trekkinn

Get Altus Atmospheric H30 - Blue, a Rain ponchos from Men´s clothing for outdoor for only 0 $. Fast and reliable delivery at Trekkinn!

www.tradeinn.com

Their shipping cost to the States is very reasonable. @SFHoneybee and other forum members have ordered from them.

 

[Telboyo]

I would recommend that your students take some seasoning with them. Salt and pepper are rarely available on the camino, if you like spicy food a small bottle of your favourite hot sauce will not go amiss.

 

[trecile]

I would recommend that your students take some seasoning with them. Salt and pepper are rarely available on the camino, if you like spicy food a small bottle of your favourite hot sauce will not go amiss.

A mini bottle of Tajín would be lightweight.

 

[dougfitz]

My own view of the 10% rule of thumb is that it works well for summer, but anything up to around 15% would be a more realistic target for a winter walk with slightly heavier weight garments. More, without knowing what financial resources the students will have, it might not be possible for them to afford some of the lighter and more expensive clothing, etc that many of us rely upon to keep our overall weight down. This is a time when providing weight and volume advice based on from the skin out measures makes so much more sense than just pack weight, and staying within a 20%FSO target would be more realistic guidance.

That would then flow onto guidance about pack size. For an average sized person from the US, they might be comfortable with a 40 li pack, but anyone much over the average would, I expect, have some difficulty. I think this needs some more nuanced discussion than you have provided here.

At that time of year, sunrise in SDC will be around 9 am, sunset at 6 pm, so I would be moving the headtorch or its equivalent into the essential basket. I would also recommend carrying a small, button sized red flashing LED light that can attached to a back pack for any early morning road walking. I have one a little bigger than the size of my thumb that I have used for winter walking elsewhere in Europe. I don't know how strictly the Xunta albergues will enforce the 8 am departure rules in winter, but clearly you would be walking before dawn if they do.

 

[J Willhaus]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply @David. Xunta albergies have really big washers and dryers for 3 and 2 euros respectively so the can double up and share loads. At least if it rains all day they can get things dry. Really the Xunta places are quite purpose built and have what pilgrims need (except pots and pans of course). Mostly these are young women who I know pretty well and I think they will want at the minimum clean undies and socks each day.

I am thinking 2 long sleeves will include what many here would call a fleece. We just call it a normal long sleeved shirt in frigid winter Wyoming. I personally will bring 2 heavy Merino wool zip necks and merino t-shirt. I will sleep in one and use all three for layering.

Although I like Nappy pins (which we call diaper pins) they aren't easy to find here in Wyoming and large safety pins can be found in the craft or sewing store. One package will probably cover the whole group.

Ear buds are mainly for the plane trip. We will probably have a group blog of some kind for family back home. This is a the recommendation of our study abroad office. One assignment is a day of walking in silence and reflecting about it. We will encourage distancing from devices, however, as faculty we have to be available 24-7 so difficult to tell students they can't use their devices. I do want them to use their apps and we'll have a WhatsApp group, etc.

We should each have a cup and a spork at minimum in case we get someplace where nothing is open. At least a few of us can taxi to a grocery store for instant Ramen, fruit, pringles, nuts, etc. To bring to the rest. (Also for instant coffee mainly for me). Some of our stopping points are purposefully remote and with the holiday season, while I will make every attempt to ensure an evening meal, it may not happen in a restaurant. Xunta albergues are notorious for no cookware so we may be limited at times.

I did not mention first aid kits yet. I am afraid we'll all look like Army medics with a 60 pound pack. I always tend to bring way too much first aid stuff since I "might" need to tend to others.(it has only happened once really). I am thinking a roll of paper tape for blister prevention, but realistically know I will be packing much more?

 

[J Willhaus]

@dougfitz , thanks for your guidance. Our packs will probably will be heavier than 10% and frankly some of these students are pretty small, too. I do anticipate we will beginning each day in the dark and wearing a lot clothes. At the end of the day the pack may be heavier as we stow coats or other layers. I have the red flashers, too, and I think they are available here in town.

The students will be on tight budgets, but they all have good winter clothes for the climate where we live. I don't anticipate they will need to buy much or they can rent it here from Campus Outdoor Rec.

I know faculty who would help a student in need without letting others know so I don't think there will be a big divide among the students.

Thanks for your help and suggestions.

 

[trecile]

Although I like Nappy pins (which we call diaper pins) they aren't easy to find here in Wyoming and large safety pins can be found in the craft or sewing store.

You can buy a large package of diaper pins on Amazon.

 

[J Willhaus]

You can buy a large package of diaper pins on Amazon.

Those are pretty much the same as the ones I have and bought for the Camino in 2016 (and still use now).

 

[Robo]

Looks like a great list and guidance
I have a mental pick of "Mash meets Camino"!

 

[VNwalking]

I would SO like to know what ten student nurses take along as their first aid kits!!

I noticed it wasn't there too.

I did not mention first aid kits yet. I am afraid we'll all look like Army medics with a 60 pound pack. I always tend to bring way too much first aid stuff since I "might" need to tend to others.(it has only happened once really). I am thinking a roll of paper tape for blister prevention, but realistically know I will be packing much more?

Same. But after 7 caminos I've pared it down to small emergency kit for speains etc, and a 'foot bag,' containing what I need on a daily basis as blister prophylaxis that looks like this:

General first aid:

• A handful of various sizes of Bandaids
• Tiny bottle of Betadine
• A few 4X4s
• Roll of elastikon
• Swiss Army knife card

For blister prophylaxis:

• Paper tape
• Omnifix
• A small amount of NZ hiker's wool
• Glide silicon lubricant for chub rub.

It weighs very little and I've used it all at least once. The foot stuff daily. Encourage the students to learn where they tend to get blisters, and individually bring what they need for that - very good info is on Rachel Rushton's website. The general 1st aid could be one for everyone that () you carry.

As for the rest of the list, merino for beanie, gloves saves weight and for me is warm enough. And I use leggings if it's cold; worth taking for those who prefer to walk in a hiking skirt or may be more cold sensitive. And 2 each undies and socks.

 

[goldie from aus]

Maybe add maximum carry on weight allowed - just in case.

 

[David]

Wyoming? You winter in Wyoming? Hahaha - winter in Galicia should be mild to you!!

 

[kelleymac]

You haven't mentioned layering -- which I'm sure you're aware of. I'd also steer l clear of cotton layers (long sleeve shirts). I walked in March and it was cold up in the hills. Not so cold down in Galicia.
My top layers: bra, long sleeve thermal base layer, sweater, vest, jacket, rain jacket. Both vest and jacket had primaloft. The sweater/fleece, vest, jacket, and rain jacket all zipped up the front so I could unzip and cool off. The base layer has a quarter zip. Bottom layers: underwear, thermal long underwear, pair of micro fleece lined hiking pants, rain pants. I actually never used the long underwear for walking, but did for sleeping sometimes. I also had a pair on unlined hiking pants I could change into.
I was glad to have a lightweight down 3 season sleeping bag to snuggle into every night.

I would also suggest people have a credit card that doesn't charge an overseas fee.

 

[J Willhaus]

I noticed it wasn't there too.

Same. But after 7 caminos I've pared it down to small emergency kit for speains etc, and a 'foot bag,' containing what I need on a daily basis as blister prophylaxis that looks like this:

General first aid:

• A handful of various sizes of Bandaids
• Tiny bottle of Betadine
• A few 4X4s
• Roll of elastikon
• Swiss Army knife card

For blister prophylaxis:

• Paper tape
• Omnifix
• A small amount of NZ hiker's wool
• Glide silicon lubricant for chub rub.

It weighs very little and I've used it all at least once. The foot stuff daily. Encourage the students to learn where they tend to get blisters, and individually bring what they need for that - very good info is on Rachel Rushton's website. The general 1st aid could be one for everyone that () you carry.

As for the rest of the list, merino for beanie, gloves saves weight and for me is warm enough. And I use leggings if it's cold; worth taking for those who prefer to walk in a hiking skirt or may be more cold sensitive. And 2 each undies and socks.

One of our evening talks will be about blisters and foot care. Students are assigned an evening topic to lead the group in discussion at least one night on the trip. I will point the Blister person to Dr Rushton's work. Fixing your feet is one of our recommended resource books, too.

Phil is always telling me I have too much first aid stuff. I only used it once to help a hiker who had fallen on a hike at Glacier National Park several miles from the trailhead. I still carry a bunch of stuff though (dressings, wraps, bandages of different types, medications, tools) Students will be assigned a buddy (yes, kind of like the Army battle buddy) so maybe they take turns carrying some things?

I am sure we will be strung along the route every morning with me probably far behind my class plodding along up the long hills out of Sarria or Portomarin. It will all be new and exciting for them. I have a few applicants over 25 years, but most younger. My co-teacher is still young enough to be my daughter, too. I always feel fast when walking with Phil, but this time, I expect I will be the "bear bait". Phil's going off on his own adventure this time.

Yes, I will bring my merino tights with the good pockets on the thighs for evening, sleeping or if needed day walking. I generally wear Duluth Flexpedition pants for the day since theyare quick drying, pretty warm and have really good pockets for women's pants. I don't want these guys to have to buy a lot of new stuff. We'll look at what they have and try to fill in the gaps.

 

[J Willhaus]

Wyoming? You winter in Wyoming? Hahaha - winter in Galicia should be mild to you!!

More rain in Galicia and less snow and elevation a lot lower than there...it is very dry here with a biting subzero wind most days in the winter.. I hope the weather will be ok. I am pretty sure it will rain.

 

[Phil W]

More rain in Galicia and less snow and elevation a lot lower there...it is very dry here with a biting subzero wind most days in the winter.. I hope the weather will be ok. I am pretty sure it will rain.

Yep, it will rain.

 

[J Willhaus]

Yes, I am discouraging cotton @kelleymac . These students dress appropriately for winters here with layering, but we will talk about it. Mostly I think they will want to bring too much stuff. They are first time pilgrims and mostly young women who care about their appearance. I want them to feel beautiful as they are which is part of the self-care curriculum we'll be working on.

 

[David]

Disagree - synthetics are awful ... they don't insulate, they sweat, the body quickly stinks - they are unnatural, one might as well wrap garbage bags round the body.

Natural fibres all the way! Cotton, Merino wool, silk, etc. I think that if it was good enough for humans over the last few million years it is still good enough now.

 

[J Willhaus]

Disagree - synthetics are awful ... they don't insulate, they sweat, the body quickly stinks - they are unnatural, one might as well wrap garbage bags round the body.

Natural fibres all the way! Cotton, Merino wool, silk, etc. I think that if it was good enough for humans over the last few million years it is still good enough now.

Some students can't afford a merino or are allergic and that is usually the preferred material here. They can afford synthetic fleece, a synthetic bag, or a synthetic puffy coat. Cheaper and will keep them warm if wet. I prefer natural fiber products myself, but know some of them can't afford merino tights so fleece tights will be a reasonable cost alternative.

 

[J Willhaus]

They can order the Altus poncho from this online store.

Altus Atmospheric H30 Poncho Blue | Trekkinn

Get Altus Atmospheric H30 - Blue, a Rain ponchos from Men´s clothing for outdoor for only 0 $. Fast and reliable delivery at Trekkinn!

www.tradeinn.com

Their shipping cost to the States is very reasonable. @SFHoneybee and other forum members have ordered from them.

I will show them the link. Not sure it will be affordable for college students if they already have something. Frogg Toggs ponchos are less expensive, but not quite as good. I did find that both Phil and I needed help donning and duffing the Altus this summer. I hope someone will lag behind to help me if I need it...

 

[kelleymac]

A few thoughts on the 10% weight limit. I am smallish and generally have to go over to about 15% (with water). I backpack with scouts and while we generally go with the 10-15% rule, youth who are overweight or obese are already hauling extra weight around and 10% is sometimes too much. Practice walks up hills with pack on and walking shoes are key. Many people are fine walking around the house with a heavy pack and don't realize the weight overtime will drag on them. -- oh, also, I wear my packed pack while doing housework to get my muscles used to the weight and twisting and turning.

 

[trecile]

Some students can't afford a merino or are allergic and that is usually the preferred material here

The women in the group can buy long sleeve merino wool shirts from Costco for a very good price.

https://www.costco.com/seg'ments-ladies'-merino-wool-top.product.100979971.html

Merino blend socks too

https://www.costco.com/kirkland-signature-ladies'-extra-fine-merino-wool-blend-crew-sock%2c-4-pair.product.100947807.html

 

[williamlittig]

Hi Pilgrims,
Some of you may remember that I am taking a group of 10 nursing students on a study abroad over the Christmas break. I am retiring in the Spring so the school asked me to do this with another instructor so they can keep offering the course after I retire. We only have time to do Sarria to Santiago. I walked this route again last summer as a recon and know the places we will likely stop and things we will see and visit. We will be walking the route over 7 days which gives time for class work and seeing some sights along the way. We'll spend a couple of nights in Santiago, one in Muxia, and end with 2 nights in Madrid. This is a 2-credit class on self-care. As a pilgrim myself, I know what I need to pack, but I need to have a formal list for these new inexperienced pilgrims. Many of these students may have never been outside the US before so please take a look at this and let me know if it makes sense. Some background: We are walking and no pack shipping. It is a 2 week late Dec. and early Jan. trip so staying mostly in Xunta albergues which are open 365 days a year. Hope we will get to celebrate some Spanish traditions such as 3 Kings Day in communities. We are required to have 2-4 hour meetings before we travel and we'll have one 4 hour meeting when we return. There are be specific assignments such as student-led group discussions (in the evenings after walking), 5 reflections that will be either written or voice recorded and turned in upon our return, etc. This is what I have prepared for the packing list document below. I know many of you like a good packing list so your constructive feedback is appreciated.

Tips​

To avoid checking your backpack do not take any knives, hiking poles, etc. in your backpack so you can carry it onboard. Your backpack generally should not weigh more than 10% of your body weight when packed. Backpacks between 30 and 40 liters will be big enough. A pack cover is advised if you do not have a rain poncho that will cover your pack. If you take a pack that is too big it will be heavier, and you will likely fill it up with more stuff unless you are extremely disciplined. You can buy a bottle of water bottle in Spain and just keep refilling it. No need to bring one from home and this saves weight. They will also give you little water bottles on the plane so you may not even need to buy one later.

Clothes should be made of quick drying material such as merino or polypro (cotton and jeans are not recommended).

Winter Camino Packing list ​

• One pair of walking pants

• 2 long sleeved shirts/sweaters

• One short sleeved shirt

• One pair comfortable evening pants

• 3 pair hiking/walking socks

• 3 pr underwear

• 1 or 2 bras (if applicable

• 1 sleepshirt and shorts/tights for sleeping (optional: some people just sleep in their walking clothes to save time dressing in the morning)

• 3 seasons sleeping bag

• 1 camp towel

• Hiking shoes/boots (make sure you try these on some hikes at home first) I wear midheight gortex boots in the winter, but trail runner can also work.

• Evening shoes (sandals, crocs, oofoos—something to give your feet a break.)

• Toiletries (use travel sized shampoo/soap, travel sized toothpaste, toothbrush, deodorant, sunscreen, lip balm, comb/brush) We keep ours in a Ziplock bag to save weight. You can buy more in Spain if you run out. Make up, perfumes, lots of hair care products are not needed and are heavy to carry.

• Feminine hygiene supplies as applicable

• ¼ of a laundry bar in a Ziplock sandwich bag (a little goes a long way) Just buy one and cut it in half/quarters and share with a friend

• Rain poncho or raincoat /rain pants recommended in winter

• Light winter coat/jacket (synthetic)

• Stocking cap or warm ear band

• Light gloves

• Buff or neck gaiter

Optional​

• Stuff sack or dry bag for clothes (can double as a pillow if you have your clothes in it)

• Headlamp for hiking in early morning before light

• Large safety pins to hang clothes on clothesline (or your backpack when walking) to dry

• Cup (microwavable: mine is from Walmart 12 oz, no handle), spork

• Scarf (scarf also works for a pillowcase, extra blanket, etc.)

• Hiking poles (not really needed for this part of the Camino, but you can buy them before we begin in Spain if needed)

• Sunglasses

• Phone and apps (you can either pay your US phone company for access to international calls and data, buy a new Sim Card in Spain, or rely only on wifi at albergues and bars) Good Apps are WisePilgrim and Buen Camino for the Camino Frances. WhatsApp for communication. Google Translate if you do not speak Spanish

• Plug adapter for Spain to charge phone/devices.

• Ear buds if you want them for music

• Small pack of tissue (you can buy more in Spain, but works as toilet paper, too, if needed)

• A few Plastic Ziplock bags of assorted sizes (sandwich, quart, gallon)

• Small notebook and pen (journal, extra paper for notes)

• Chico bag or similar (made from recycled water bottles and rolls up in a tiny ball) for laundry bag/grocery bag/etc.

Important/not optional ​

• Passport (must be good for 6 months after we travel)

• Pilgrim credential (Janet will supply)

• ATM card to get Cash/Euros from an ATM .

• Credit card (fees are less than ATM)

• Coin purse or Ziplock bag for small amount of Euros used for daily spending, keep in your pocket or handy for purchases like coffee, etc.

• Some kind of neck or waist wallet for extra Euros, US money, ATM card, credit card, phone (This should never leave your person. Always take it with you even to the shower. Keep it inside your sleeping bag at night)

Good list: a long camp towel can help block lights when tucked into the top mattress / encourage synthetics or merino, "cotton kills" / call the bank and notify them when and where you're traveling / WhatsApp is good for communication with wifi / Onward!

 

[Adelina]

You’re awesome Janet, as are the students! You’re taking adult nursing students and you have thought of everything. Buen camino!

 

[walkingstu]

Line bag with a garbage bag. Roll of toilet tissue. Stress footwear be waterproof, and after lacing s/b able to insert index finger between heel and boot. Hooded rainwear.
Buen Camino!

 

[JabbaPapa]

Your backpack generally should not weigh more than 10% of your body weight when packed.

There's a cutoff point to this advice, which is great for men of average height or lower, women and especially children -- the 10% rule is vital for the backpacks of children.

But if you're a big guy weighing 120 kilos, whether that's muscle or flab, 12 kilos is undesirable.

I would add -- aim for 8 kilos or less, not including water or food.

Clothes should be made of quick drying material such as merino or polypro (cotton and jeans are not recommended).

I only ever wear cotton t-shirts & jeans, leather boots, and a great big black woollen cape.

Cotton and jeans are fine for some people -- merino is fine of course -- but I think this is a tad too dogmatic ; wearing what you're comfortable with and what works for you is a lot more important. Most Portuguese pilgrims walking locally to Fátima just wear their normal clothes.

Wearing "special" clothes that you're not used to can be a negative.

Winter Camino Packing list ​

• One pair of walking pants
• 2 long sleeved shirts/sweaters
• One short sleeved shirt
• One pair comfortable evening pants

A second pair of trousers for such a short Camino is just extra weight.

I'd also suggest one long-sleeved one short one for just 7 days. Plus maybe a light sweater in autumn/winter.

Some soap to clean them with.

• 3 seasons sleeping bag

Likely overkill from Sarria.

Would suggest a lightweight one instead.

• Light winter coat/jacket (synthetic)

Synthetic is ultra sweaty for many people.

Instead advise them to bring what they're comfortable in.

• Stocking cap or warm ear band

Useless for most people -- for whom a wide-brimmed hat is all they need, in rain or shine.

• Light gloves

Optional for younger pilgrims.

• Buff or neck gaiter

Unnecessary for most pilgrims -- but yeah, necessary for some.

 

[dougfitz]

Disagree - synthetics are awful ... they don't insulate, they sweat, the body quickly stinks - they are unnatural, one might as well wrap garbage bags round the body.

Natural fibres all the way! Cotton, Merino wool, silk, etc. I think that if it was good enough for humans over the last few million years it is still good enough now.

@David, I'm not sure what prompted this, but there are clearly parts of it that are demonstrably untrue, others that might be true of just one or two synthetic fabrics and a line of reasoning that I suspect you might not apply across all aspects of your life, particularly since you are responding to this forum on a computer and not yelling out from your cave letting us know that you have just completed another painting of your latest hunt. If you really do have a preference for things that were good enough for humans a few million years ago, I wish you well with your pre-neanderthal existence.

 

[JabbaPapa]

@David, I'm not sure what prompted this, but there are clearly parts of it that are demonstrably untrue, others that might be true of just one or two synthetic fabrics and a line of reasoning that I suspect you might not apply across all aspects of your life, particularly since you are responding to this forum on a computer and not yelling out from your cave letting us know that you have just completed another painting of your latest hunt. If you really do have a preference for things that were good enough for humans a few million years ago, I wish you well with your pre-neanderthal existence.

"I love synthetics, and anyone who disagrees with me is a caveman ?" LOL

---

FYI synthetics systematically give me a rash ...

I'm sure they're perfectly fine for you, but I can walk in nothing else than cotton, wool, and leather.

YMMV

 

[dougfitz]

"I love synthetics, and anyone who disagrees with me is a caveman ?"

Please, there is no need to be so patronising. This is not a quote from me or anyone else contributing to this thread, and is well removed from the sentiment that I expressed in my post. I certainly didn't suggest people avoid natural fabrics, although I was tempted to observe that the use of cotton in winter in the Pyrenees and across northern Spain would be riskier than using materials with better wicking properties.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Please, there is no need to be so patronising. This is not a quote from me or anyone else contributing to this thread, and is well removed from the sentiment that I expressed in my post. I certainly didn't suggest people avoid natural fabrics, although I was tempted to observe that the use of cotton in winter in the Pyrenees and across northern Spain would be riskier than using materials with better wicking properties.

Your prose :

yelling out from your cave letting us know that you have just completed another painting of your latest hunt. If you really do have a preference for things that were good enough for humans a few million years ago, I wish you well with your pre-neanderthal existence

... wasn't exactly edifying, I hope you'll admit.

My cotton and wool wick well enough, cheers !! And did so last winter too in the Pyrenees and northern Spain !!

I repeat for emphasis :

YMMV

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

@J Willhaus

Hi Janet. I'm currently sitting on a log in the sun in the middle of a short 10K training hike. It's rather hard to envisage winter.
Personally I think you've done an excellent job, hardly surprising considering your experience. I agree with several of the items raised above as potentially useful. In particular:

Line bag with a garbage bag. Roll of toilet tissue. Stress footwear be waterproof, and after lacing s/b able to insert index finger between heel and boot.

The bag liner or similar is almost essential if you're relying on a pack cover. A part role of toilet paper would of course do. If the footwear isn't waterproof perhaps they could consider lightweight waterproof gaitors. Bearing in mind where you live I presume if they don't have them they'll have friends/ family who do.

would add -- aim for 8 kilos or less, not including water or food.

Agree 100%. My backpack packed with everything you've listed above and several more items (at least half a kilos worth) was 7.1 kilos. And no, none of my gear is super light. Even allowing for extra toiletries or comfort items 8 should easily be doable as a maximum limit. With the emphasis on less is better.
And whilst I completely understand those who emphasizing Merino I also understand where you're coming from. I personally have only got polyprop long johns because why on earth should I buy another (merino) pair when I'm unlikely to use them more than a handful of times a year? And as you rightly point out cost as a major factor for students, let alone allergies.
Many of the other items I carry are simply not necessary as you will be carrying them: stretchy bandage, tweezers and others such like items! Washing line etc also not required.
Although may I suggest for those that do not have an emergency whistle as part of their Pack harness that they purchase a simple whistle for emergency use. ? Yes you can always phone for help however who do you phone first ? A whistle will get attention pretty quickly. Useful also to signaling to your group + or at least, those within hearing) that you want them to stop,!

Finally a few points that you've probably already thought of but nobody's mentioned. Not packing list related.
1/ ensure when you first meet that everybody loads the alert cops app to their phone.
2/ ditto with the emergency number 112. Simply loaded as 'ambulance/ police '. That way in a true emergency nobody has to remember.
3/ remind everybody of the regulations concerning carry on liquids and sharp objects.
4/ if you're encouraging them to carry on their bags then strongly suggest that they check the regulations applicable to their airline EG maximum size and weight.

 

[dougfitz]

Your prose :

yelling out from your cave letting us know that you have just completed another painting of your latest hunt. If you really do have a preference for things that were good enough for humans a few million years ago, I wish you well with your pre-neanderthal existence

... wasn't exactly edifying, I hope you'll admit.

Perhaps you should read my post in the context of @David's earlier post suggesting that he was happy to use materials that humans had been using for a few million years. I took it that this was slightly tongue-in-cheek, noting that modern humans emerged only some 300,000 years ago. So any reference to pre-neanderthals and cavemen would seem entirely appropriate.

As an aside, I think you have distracted us from the main point of this thread, and we should leave it the matter rest and let people get on with helping Janet with her question.

 

[Bothydave]

Hi Pilgrims,
Some of you may remember that I am taking a group of 10 nursing students on a study abroad over the Christmas break. I am retiring in the Spring so the school asked me to do this with another instructor so they can keep offering the course after I retire. We only have time to do Sarria to Santiago. I walked this route again last summer as a recon and know the places we will likely stop and things we will see and visit. We will be walking the route over 7 days which gives time for class work and seeing some sights along the way. We'll spend a couple of nights in Santiago, one in Muxia, and end with 2 nights in Madrid. This is a 2-credit class on self-care. As a pilgrim myself, I know what I need to pack, but I need to have a formal list for these new inexperienced pilgrims. Many of these students may have never been outside the US before so please take a look at this and let me know if it makes sense. Some background: We are walking and no pack shipping. It is a 2 week late Dec. and early Jan. trip so staying mostly in Xunta albergues which are open 365 days a year. Hope we will get to celebrate some Spanish traditions such as 3 Kings Day in communities. We are required to have 2-4 hour meetings before we travel and we'll have one 4 hour meeting when we return. There are be specific assignments such as student-led group discussions (in the evenings after walking), 5 reflections that will be either written or voice recorded and turned in upon our return, etc. This is what I have prepared for the packing list document below. I know many of you like a good packing list so your constructive feedback is appreciated.

Tips​

To avoid checking your backpack do not take any knives, hiking poles, etc. in your backpack so you can carry it onboard. Your backpack generally should not weigh more than 10% of your body weight when packed. Backpacks between 30 and 40 liters will be big enough. A pack cover is advised if you do not have a rain poncho that will cover your pack. If you take a pack that is too big it will be heavier, and you will likely fill it up with more stuff unless you are extremely disciplined. You can buy a bottle of water bottle in Spain and just keep refilling it. No need to bring one from home and this saves weight. They will also give you little water bottles on the plane so you may not even need to buy one later.

Clothes should be made of quick drying material such as merino or polypro (cotton and jeans are not recommended).

Winter Camino Packing list ​

• One pair of walking pants
• 2 long sleeved shirts/sweaters
• One short sleeved shirt
• One pair comfortable evening pants
• 3 pair hiking/walking socks
• 3 pr underwear
• 1 or 2 bras (if applicable
• 1 sleepshirt and shorts/tights for sleeping (optional: some people just sleep in their walking clothes to save time dressing in the morning)
• 3 seasons sleeping bag
• 1 camp towel
• Hiking shoes/boots (make sure you try these on some hikes at home first) I wear midheight gortex boots in the winter, but trail runner can also work.
• Evening shoes (sandals, crocs, oofoos—something to give your feet a break.)
• Toiletries (use travel sized shampoo/soap, travel sized toothpaste, toothbrush, deodorant, sunscreen, lip balm, comb/brush) We keep ours in a Ziplock bag to save weight. You can buy more in Spain if you run out. Make up, perfumes, lots of hair care products are not needed and are heavy to carry.
• Feminine hygiene supplies as applicable
• ¼ of a laundry bar in a Ziplock sandwich bag (a little goes a long way) Just buy one and cut it in half/quarters and share with a friend
• Rain poncho or raincoat /rain pants recommended in winter
• Light winter coat/jacket (synthetic)
• Stocking cap or warm ear band
• Light gloves
• Buff or neck gaiter

Optional​

• Stuff sack or dry bag for clothes (can double as a pillow if you have your clothes in it)
• Headlamp for hiking in early morning before light
• Large safety pins to hang clothes on clothesline (or your backpack when walking) to dry
• Cup (microwavable: mine is from Walmart 12 oz, no handle), spork
• Scarf (scarf also works for a pillowcase, extra blanket, etc.)
• Hiking poles (not really needed for this part of the Camino, but you can buy them before we begin in Spain if needed)
• Sunglasses
• Phone and apps (you can either pay your US phone company for access to international calls and data, buy a new Sim Card in Spain, or rely only on wifi at albergues and bars) Good Apps are WisePilgrim and Buen Camino for the Camino Frances. WhatsApp for communication. Google Translate if you do not speak Spanish
• Plug adapter for Spain to charge phone/devices.
• Ear buds if you want them for music
• Small pack of tissue (you can buy more in Spain, but works as toilet paper, too, if needed)
• A few Plastic Ziplock bags of assorted sizes (sandwich, quart, gallon)
• Small notebook and pen (journal, extra paper for notes)
• Chico bag or similar (made from recycled water bottles and rolls up in a tiny ball) for laundry bag/grocery bag/etc.

Important/not optional ​

• Passport (must be good for 6 months after we travel)
• Pilgrim credential (Janet will supply)
• ATM card to get Cash/Euros from an ATM .
• Credit card (fees are less than ATM)
• Coin purse or Ziplock bag for small amount of Euros used for daily spending, keep in your pocket or handy for purchases like coffee, etc.
• Some kind of neck or waist wallet for extra Euros, US money, ATM card, credit card, phone (This should never leave your person. Always take it with you even to the shower. Keep it inside your sleeping bag at night)

Charging cables for electronics, medications list that is official - like a repeat prescription format. Maybe if life saving medication is required a signed Dr prescription? i found that in Galicia I could not get any codine based pain killers without a script.
carry on bag size - the airline will show a maximum size (length/ width/ height and weight for carry on bags that cannot be exceeded)

 

[JabbaPapa]

Well I dunno, aren't ancient ancestors with well-wicking woollen kit and strong hiking staves out of Africa towards Europe the heart of pilgrimage ?

 

[TravellingMan22]

I only ever wear shorts when I walk. I couldn’t and wouldn’t do a Camino in ‘long pants’ (or trousers / jeans in my world). Wearing shorts make me feel free. Just me of course.and my legs don’t ever feel the cold even in -10 degrees.

I don’t agree with the 10% %age of weight. I am 90kg but have very poor upper body strength. No idea why. 9kg would be far too much for me. Luckily I travel light. 2 pair of shorts, 2 T-shirts , a track suit top in winter, a pair of flip flops and basic toiletries! Again travelling light makes me feel free!

So you may want to do some ‘testing’ re what folks can carry!

 

[JabbaPapa]

i found that in Galicia I could not get any codine based pain killers without a script.

You can get dexketoprofene over the counter.

 

[David]

@David, I'm not sure what prompted this, but there are clearly parts of it that are demonstrably untrue, others that might be true of just one or two synthetic fabrics and a line of reasoning that I suspect you might not apply across all aspects of your life, particularly since you are responding to this forum on a computer and not yelling out from your cave letting us know that you have just completed another painting of your latest hunt. If you really do have a preference for things that were good enough for humans a few million years ago, I wish you well with your pre-neanderthal existence.

We are talking about clothing you know, not going back into the past. I have a lightweight padded jacket, synthetic, and very good it is too. My Keen Newport sandals are webbing and synthetic
I should have been clearer, I was thinking about synthetics on the skin, such as underpants, socks, t shirts and shirts and so on. To me the same as wrapping rubbish bags round your chest.

The mountaineers who attempted such mountains as Everest and so on, in the 1930's and 50's wore silk underwear, vest and underpants, wool socks, wool layers, fur mitts, canvas and fur coats ... they seemed to do ok and no one then was as insulting as you are about what they wore or about me .... you are disparaging and rude yet again - you know Doug, you can just disagree by using your personal opinions or even facts without being insulting - it isn't pleasant.

 

[SBurgess]

Janet, I agree with those who applaud your list and the fact that you are willing to take on such a trip.
Suggestions:
*extra batteries for your headlamp. Headlamps are far superior to the light from a cell phone--IMHO
*your students should start walking in the shoes they will use on the Camino today.
*with the number of students on the trip it is most certain one or two will need to use nature as a toilet. Remind them that one of the extra zip lock bags should be used to carry out their used toilet paper.
*I agree with the suggestion that you send all extra clothing for Madrid ahead to Ivar.
*Most important---Enjoy the experience!

 

[JabbaPapa]

*your students should start walking in the shoes they will use on the Camino today.

Yes !!

*with the number of students on the trip it is most certain one or two will need to use nature as a toilet. Remind them that one of the extra zip lock bags should be used to carry out their used toilet paper.

Indeed.

 

[J Willhaus]

The women in the group can buy long sleeve merino wool shirts from Costco for a very good price.

https://www.costco.com/seg'ments-ladies'-merino-wool-top.product.100979971.html

Merino blend socks too

https://www.costco.com/kirkland-signature-ladies'-extra-fine-merino-wool-blend-crew-sock%2c-4-pair.product.100947807.html

No Costcos in Wyoming and the nearest is a couple of hours away. I can share links with the students, but I don't have a membership for that reason. We do have some small locally owned outdoors stores in Laramie. We live in a very outdoorsy place. Once we get the group identified, we'll try to see what needs any of them have and try to help them manage those. Our Study Abroad office is very sensitive to making sure that students feel they can afford to go. Students can also apply for grants to help cover travel which take personal finances into account.

From my budget with nights in Madrid, Santiago, Muxia and along the Camino, at least one meal daily, all ground transportation, any entrance fees, etc. the cost to the student is $1,425 for the 2 week trip. It can be less than that, but not more per the "rules" I have to follow here. This does not include airfare or tuition, but it does include my estimate of the individual costs plus and the cost divided up for the estimated faculty travel (aside from what our grant award could cover.) There are also some special rules I have to keep in mind such as I can't use university funds to pay for alcohol (so meals that include wine/water will just include water for us.) The walking days won't be particularly expensive except for some cabs to see special sites near the Camino on some afternoons. The days in Madrid are the most expensive followed by Santiago and of course while train and bus are reasonable, I have to plan for the highest ticket rates and hope for the lowest. In short, I am hoping we'll get home and the final student cost will be much less than $1,425. It is a balancing act and I am a very frugal person. I can't make any reservations until we get the group identified and of course bus and train tickets won't be released for sale yet for a while.

 

[J Willhaus]

Thanks everyone. Didn't mean to start an argument about synthetic vs natural. Our students are very environmentally aware here and would likely chose sustainable alternatives when they can afford them. We'll work with them to get what they need for the trip. Lots of good ideas for me to add to my list. You are helping me get more excited to go. I had some misgivings about "sharing" my own Camino with a group of students, but those are fading. I really want them to focus on self-care on this journey as we really can't care for others until we learn how to care for ourselves. Of course we could teach those principles at home, but isn't it going to be much more fun in Spain?

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

One other quick point for any students that haven’t traveled internationally before, all liquids/ salve’s etc must be in a one litre, clear, ziplock bag. No individual container can exceed 100 gram- regardless of whether it’s full or practically empty. No half empty 125gm toothpaste for example

 

[TravellingMan22]

Thanks everyone. Didn't mean to start an argument about synthetic vs natural. Our students are very environmentally aware here and would likely chose sustainable alternatives when they can afford them. We'll work with them to get what they need for the trip. Lots of good ideas for me to add to my list. You are helping me get more excited to go. I had some misgivings about "sharing" my own Camino with a group of students, but those are fading. I really want them to focus on self-care on this journey as we really can't care for others until we learn how to care for ourselves. Of course we could teach those principles at home, but isn't it going to be much more fun in Spain?

Well done for doing what your doing!! That’s really making a difference. My daughters are both teachers and I know ‘the duty of care’ effort that goes into a short day trip into London!!!

 

[JabbaPapa]

Didn't mean to start an argument about synthetic vs natural.

I don't think there's argument as such ; just the one is better for some, the other for others.

But as these are students, it might be well to present the question to them pro et contra, rather than as hard advice.

 

[trecile]

No Costcos in Wyoming and the nearest is a couple of hours away. I can share links with the students,

I did see that there are no Costcos in Wyoming, but even non-members can order online, though I think that the price might be slightly higher.

 

[SBurgess]

....and another suggestion: make sure the cell phones are unlocked.

 

[trecile]

....and another suggestion: make sure the cell phones are unlocked.

If that's not possible, make sure that they have WhatsApp on their phones to use with free wifi at albergues and bars, and have downloaded apps like Wise Pilgrim and Buen Camino to use the offline maps if necessary.

 

[cruiser75]

Sorry in advance, I'm too lazy to read all the replies,

If I remember from your original post earplugs and eye masks are missing.

I would recommend these as they are very light but very useful if there are some light sleepers in the group.
The standard hard foam ones are not great however if someone in the group has access to quality disposable safety earplugs they are very good and last all night. Also Google how to insert earplugs correctly from a noise safety standpoint and it will also improve their effectiveness.

 

[J Willhaus]

Sorry in advance, I'm too lazy to read all the replies,

If I remember from your original post earplugs and eye masks are missing.

I would recommend these as they are very light but very useful if there are some light sleepers in the group.
The standard hard foam ones are not great however if someone in the group has access to quality disposable safety earplugs they are very good and last all night. Also Google how to insert earplugs correctly from a noise safety standpoint and it will also improve their effectiveness.

Yes, agree. I used to run a hearing conservation/protection program at a factory. Wyoming being a big gun state, they are available just across the street from my house at a sporting/hunting store.

 

[J Willhaus]

If that's not possible, make sure that they have WhatsApp on their phones to use with free wifi at albergues and bars, and have downloaded apps like Wise Pilgrim and Buen Camino to use the offline maps if necessary.

I have to have the cell phone talk with the the students. I am just lazy and always just extend my US plan. It is more expensive that way, but my elderly parents would be stressed out about a Spanish phone number and my phone does not do e-sim. (I probably need an upgrade to 5G at least.)

Yes, WhatsApp, Buen Camino, and Wise Pilgrim are very useful. We are walking the last 100 km though and there is a marker about every quarter mile or so. It would be hard to get lost, but for people who have never learned to read a map because they have always depended on their phones, it would be important to have service and apps.

 

[JillGat]

Some students can't afford a merino or are allergic and that is usually the preferred material here. They can afford synthetic fleece, a synthetic bag, or a synthetic puffy coat. Cheaper and will keep them warm if wet. I prefer natural fiber products myself, but know some of them can't afford merino tights so fleece tights will be a reasonable cost alternative.

People always warn against down coats because they don't insulate when they are wet. It is really, really easy to keep a down jacket from getting wet. And the advantages are huge compared to the disadvantages. Down packs down to almost nothing in your pack, for one thing. And (after many years using down and fleece), it is clear to me that down is comfortable in a much greater range of temperatures than synthetics are. You don't have that dilemma of "put it on and I get too hot, take it off and I get cold" as much as you do with fleece. I do think a fleece vest is a useful item, though

 

[J Willhaus]

Yikes! Just read on another post that the Xunta albergues are going up in price to 10 euros (from 8 euros)! I padded the budget a little at the advice of our Study Abroad office so this will only increase costs by about 16 euros per student, but still makes me nervous! They're worth 10 euros, but the lack of kitchenware is a pain.

 

[dick bird]

The 10% rule needs to be taken with a big pinch of salt - applied literally no one would ever do a through hike. How about, before you go, you organize an army style kit inspection - everybody lays out the contents of their pack and you can check it before they go. Two ways you can maybe cut down the weight 1) share stuff e.g. first aid kits, chargers 2) be ruthless about personal care products: they weigh a ton and are mostly superfluous. Synthetic clothing can be washed, so although I am a fan of merino, that is a option. Galicia is cold and wet in winter so don’t stint on the protective gear. It’s a learning experience, if you don’t make mistakes you don’t learn. Good luck and Buen Camino.

 

[Anhalter]

I skipped most of the discussion, so i am sorry if some things have been said already:

-You are missing earplugs. I find that item quite essential for albergues.

-Instead of 1 pants for walking and 1 for the evenings i would go with 2 that can be used for walking AND an extra Leggins or whats it called these days. If weather gets bad, they might need a boost of warmth. It can be used to sleep in. In a pinch it can even be worn in an albergue.

- For the sandals/crocs i would suggest to your student that they pick something that can be worn with socks. So no Flipflops.

- Depending on your raingear i find hats or caps quite useful so that the water doesnt run into your eyes.

- I think that has been said: I would clarify the 2 longsleeves into 1 thin and 1 thick.

- With the leggins/sleep cloth / longsleeves i don't think a 3 season sleeping bag is strictly necessary. (but maybe better safe than sorry)

And last: while i myself would be far from 10% even in deepest of winter, you plan on walking 100k and change with a bunch of young folks. I think the weight of their packs will not be the most critical factor. Just make sure they keep it reasonable.

 

[J Willhaus]

The 10% rule needs to be taken with a big pinch of salt - applied literally no one would ever do a through hike. How about, before you go, you organize an army style kit inspection - everybody lays out the contents of their pack and you can check it before they go. Two ways you can maybe cut down the weight 1) share stuff e.g. first aid kits, chargers 2) be ruthless about personal care products: they weigh a ton and are mostly superfluous. Synthetic clothing can be washed, so although I am a fan of merino, that is a option. Galicia is cold and wet in winter so don’t stint on the protective gear. It’s a learning experience, if you don’t make mistakes you don’t learn. Good luck and Buen Camino.

Yes, my husband has also suggested a military type inspection. In the end they are adults, mostly young adults although we have one or two applications from nontraditional and/or grad students. And they are all highly intelligent and high achieving.

I will offer to look at what they are bringing and make strong suggestions, but in the end they are responsible for their own belongings.

 

[David Tallan]

Yes, my husband has also suggested a military type inspection. In the end they are adults, mostly young adults although we have one or two applications from nontraditional and/or grad students. And they are all highly intelligent and high achieving.

I will offer to look at what they are bringing and make strong suggestions, but in the end they are responsible for their own belongings.

You can do the inspection in a respectful way by framing it as a critique/mutual suggestion session where they look at what each other has packed and make suggestions. Of course, they would have the option as adults carrying their own packs to take the suggestions or not. Then they may come up hhemselves with the ideas to share things (you can share the first aid kit I am carrying so you don't have to carry one yourself if I can share the charger you are carrying so I don't have to carry one).

 

[1man2dogs]

Hi

I'm probably mentioning something already said and you're also aware of. But in regards to liquids being in clear plastic bags, if any of the students use an inhaler, that is also classed as a liquid and must be in the clear bag. I learnt this the hard way myself a few years ago.

Buen Camino
Sean

 

[Bumpa]

Thanks everyone. Didn't mean to start an argument about synthetic vs natural. Our students are very environmentally aware here and would likely chose sustainable alternatives when they can afford them. We'll work with them to get what they need for the trip. Lots of good ideas for me to add to my list. You are helping me get more excited to go. I had some misgivings about "sharing" my own Camino with a group of students, but those are fading. I really want them to focus on self-care on this journey as we really can't care for others until we learn how to care for ourselves. Of course we could teach those principles at home, but isn't it going to be much more fun in Spain?

I applaud what you are doing Janet! And no, you are not the one who started the synthetic vs natural theme.

 

[pjacobi]

How many training hikes have you been on with students with a full pack? They'll learn to pack lighter after the first few training hikes! Find this out at home, not on the Camino!


-Paul

 

[JabbaPapa]

How many training hikes have you been on with students with a full pack? They'll learn to pack lighter after the first few training hikes! Find this out at home, not on the Camino!

eh, some need to travel lighter, some heavier than others.

But that's great advice !! Better to explore heavy or light prior to finding out the hard way too late to change !!

 

[J Willhaus]

I looked at the applications yesterday. Most students are avid backcountry hikers here and one is a backcountry guide. They are used to carrying much heavier packs than we will have. I will suggest training hikes, but they'll mostly be outwalking me I am sure. We aren't going far each day. The furthest day is 20 km.

 

[JabbaPapa]

They'll be training you !!

 

[David Tallan]

I looked at the applications yesterday. Most students are avid backcountry hikers here and one is a backcountry guide. They are used to carrying much heavier packs than we will have. I will suggest training hikes, but they'll mostly be outwalking me I am sure. We aren't going far each day. The furthest day is 20 km.

Then it is a different kind of expectation you'll need to be setting.

 

[J Willhaus]

We are walking 4 shorter days then 3 longer ones to allow for class activities and site visits if available in the afternoons. I've no doubt that they'll outpace me and I am hoping my co-teacher who is a former grad student of mine and young enough to be my daughter will keep up a faster pace.

In any case, they'll be waiting on one of us since we'll have the means to pay for their bed and meal costs!

 

[K_Lynn]

@J Willhaus thanks for this. I've sent it to my sister as a suggestion!

 

[Chris Melbourne]

Hi Pilgrims,
Some of you may remember that I am taking a group of 10 nursing students on a study abroad over the Christmas break. I am retiring in the Spring so the school asked me to do this with another instructor so they can keep offering the course after I retire. We only have time to do Sarria to Santiago. I walked this route again last summer as a recon and know the places we will likely stop and things we will see and visit. We will be walking the route over 7 days which gives time for class work and seeing some sights along the way. We'll spend a couple of nights in Santiago, one in Muxia, and end with 2 nights in Madrid. This is a 2-credit class on self-care. As a pilgrim myself, I know what I need to pack, but I need to have a formal list for these new inexperienced pilgrims. Many of these students may have never been outside the US before so please take a look at this and let me know if it makes sense. Some background: We are walking and no pack shipping. It is a 2 week late Dec. and early Jan. trip so staying mostly in Xunta albergues which are open 365 days a year. Hope we will get to celebrate some Spanish traditions such as 3 Kings Day in communities. We are required to have 2-4 hour meetings before we travel and we'll have one 4 hour meeting when we return. There are be specific assignments such as student-led group discussions (in the evenings after walking), 5 reflections that will be either written or voice recorded and turned in upon our return, etc. This is what I have prepared for the packing list document below. I know many of you like a good packing list so your constructive feedback is appreciated.

Tips​

To avoid checking your backpack do not take any knives, hiking poles, etc. in your backpack so you can carry it onboard. Your backpack generally should not weigh more than 10% of your body weight when packed. Backpacks between 30 and 40 liters will be big enough. A pack cover is advised if you do not have a rain poncho that will cover your pack. If you take a pack that is too big it will be heavier, and you will likely fill it up with more stuff unless you are extremely disciplined. You can buy a bottle of water bottle in Spain and just keep refilling it. No need to bring one from home and this saves weight. They will also give you little water bottles on the plane so you may not even need to buy one later.

Clothes should be made of quick drying material such as merino or polypro (cotton and jeans are not recommended).

Winter Camino Packing list ​

• One pair of walking pants
• 2 long sleeved shirts/sweaters
• One short sleeved shirt
• One pair comfortable evening pants
• 3 pair hiking/walking socks
• 3 pr underwear
• 1 or 2 bras (if applicable
• 1 sleepshirt and shorts/tights for sleeping (optional: some people just sleep in their walking clothes to save time dressing in the morning)
• 3 seasons sleeping bag
• 1 camp towel
• Hiking shoes/boots (make sure you try these on some hikes at home first) I wear midheight gortex boots in the winter, but trail runner can also work.
• Evening shoes (sandals, crocs, oofoos—something to give your feet a break.)
• Toiletries (use travel sized shampoo/soap, travel sized toothpaste, toothbrush, deodorant, sunscreen, lip balm, comb/brush) We keep ours in a Ziplock bag to save weight. You can buy more in Spain if you run out. Make up, perfumes, lots of hair care products are not needed and are heavy to carry.
• Feminine hygiene supplies as applicable
• ¼ of a laundry bar in a Ziplock sandwich bag (a little goes a long way) Just buy one and cut it in half/quarters and share with a friend
• Rain poncho or raincoat /rain pants recommended in winter
• Light winter coat/jacket (synthetic)
• Stocking cap or warm ear band
• Light gloves
• Buff or neck gaiter

Optional​

• Stuff sack or dry bag for clothes (can double as a pillow if you have your clothes in it)
• Headlamp for hiking in early morning before light
• Large safety pins to hang clothes on clothesline (or your backpack when walking) to dry
• Cup (microwavable: mine is from Walmart 12 oz, no handle), spork
• Scarf (scarf also works for a pillowcase, extra blanket, etc.)
• Hiking poles (not really needed for this part of the Camino, but you can buy them before we begin in Spain if needed)
• Sunglasses
• Phone and apps (you can either pay your US phone company for access to international calls and data, buy a new Sim Card in Spain, or rely only on wifi at albergues and bars) Good Apps are WisePilgrim and Buen Camino for the Camino Frances. WhatsApp for communication. Google Translate if you do not speak Spanish
• Plug adapter for Spain to charge phone/devices.
• Ear buds if you want them for music
• Small pack of tissue (you can buy more in Spain, but works as toilet paper, too, if needed)
• A few Plastic Ziplock bags of assorted sizes (sandwich, quart, gallon)
• Small notebook and pen (journal, extra paper for notes)
• Chico bag or similar (made from recycled water bottles and rolls up in a tiny ball) for laundry bag/grocery bag/etc.

Important/not optional ​

• Passport (must be good for 6 months after we travel)
• Pilgrim credential (Janet will supply)
• ATM card to get Cash/Euros from an ATM .
• Credit card (fees are less than ATM)
• Coin purse or Ziplock bag for small amount of Euros used for daily spending, keep in your pocket or handy for purchases like coffee, etc.
• Some kind of neck or waist wallet for extra Euros, US money, ATM card, credit card, phone (This should never leave your person. Always take it with you even to the shower. Keep it inside your sleeping bag at night)

Can I just say that I used to take great care about my packing list and caries around 10 kilos. A few years ago I flew into Madrid and was catching a train to Burgos to continue my journey to Santiago. Unfortunately my back was stolen at the station! With 10 minutes to go I had to decide to get on the train or abort!
I got on the train to Burgos. Fortunately my tickets, passport wallet and phone were all in my bum bag around my waist. My boots weee on my feet!
On arrival at Burgos I went to Decathalon and bought the absolute minimum. Spare shorts, pants, shirt, socks,micro towel, sleeping bag sheet, walking poles, cheap rucksack. Went to pharmacy and bought soap toothbrush and medications.
My bag weighed about 4 kilos and managed peefecly fine for the rest of the journey. Didn’t need the other 6 kilos of gear.

 

[SBurgess]

Is there an update?

 

[trecile]

Is there an update?

The group has arrived in Santiago - here's the LIVE thread: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/sarria-to-santiago-winter-camino.84433/