Flying a drone on the camino

[Paulo Arantes]

I'd like to know about people who has flown drones on the Camino.
I'm planning on doing the Camino, only in Spain. Thinking about taking with me a drone with camera that weights less than 250g.
Any suggestions?!

 

[Robo]

Just don't fly it near other Pilgrims

Last year at the Cruz de Ferro a drone was buzzing around the cross!
Kind of killed the mood a bit......

 

[jcat]

I'd like to know about people who has flown drones on the Camino.
I'm planning on doing the Camino, only in Spain. Thinking about taking with me a drone with camera that weights less than 250g.
Any suggestions?!

Download the "ENAIRE Drones" app which shows airspace regulations for all locations in Spain.

The one place I wanted to fly and film with my drone in Spain (non-camino related) is a no-fly zone due to protection of local birds. Other than that, I have seen plenty of YouTubers filming parts of the Camino with drones. I just wouldn't want to carry the extra equipment.

 

[wayfarer]

Take it, loads do.

 

[Anamiri]

Just don't fly it near other Pilgrims

Last year at the Cruz de Ferro a drone was buzzing around the cross!
Kind of killed the mood a bit......

There was one this year as well. Annoying

 

[MikeJS]

I am waiting for a drone with a "follow me” option that can carry a rucksack!

 

[Paulo Arantes]

Just don't fly it near other Pilgrims

Last year at the Cruz de Ferro a drone was buzzing around the cross!
Kind of killed the mood a bit......

That's for sure. The intention is fly only when there's no one else near.
I'll be walking a less travelled route (Camino Viejo) and the intention is to document the new path.

I filed a registration document with the aviation department of Spain. Anyone had this document asked?!

 

[cnxjo]

I think liability insurance may also be required. If you have it would appreciate information where to get such policy to cover Spain. Thanks

 

[El Cascayal]

I am waiting for a drone with a "follow me” option

When is a drone not a drone?
When it’s a Pixy, no longer on the market and all that were sold recalled & returned due to batteries exploding.
There is now a drone/technically not a drone considered a selfie stick, no registration required.
Follows you around, circles you, hovers. It is great fun. Doesn’t add too much weight. Try not to fly it in Obradoiro or the Guardia Civil may have a tiny conversation with you.
Here’s a sample from Por Hospitales on the Primitivo. Great fun! “Look Ma, no hands!

HoverAir X1​

 

[Itsnever2late]

I am waiting for a drone with a "follow me” option that can carry a rucksack!

@MikeJS Is that a two legged drone ?

 

[MaxHelado]

Spent a bit of time researching this.
The advice to download the Enaire Drones App is good but I have not yet found an Enaire App for iPhone. I think maybe it only exists for Android?
Anyway, you can access the website here https://drones.enaire.es/ Invaluable information.
There are MANY restrictions on where you can fly and you ignore them at your peril. The fines are hefty.
I would suggest you check out your planned Camino on Enaire to see if it is worthwhile carrying a drone.
You need to have the drone registered in the EU and it should be registered with the country of entry. So if you are flying into Madrid (for example) from Brazil then you must register your drone with AESA in Spain. Once registered that registration is valid for all EU member states. Your registration number must be displayed on the drone.
Public liability insurance is mandatory in Spain.

 

[joramos]

I'd like to know about people who has flown drones on the Camino.
I'm planning on doing the Camino, only in Spain. Thinking about taking with me a drone with camera that weights less than 250g.
Any suggestions?!

Yes, many has flown drones to capture and document their pilgrimage and the beauty of Spain and the Camino. Go ahead please and I will be a follower. Following are few of the many drone footage of the Camino de Santiago:

All the best. Buen Camino.

 

[JerryStroebele]

A drone on the Camino???? On a pilgrimage? Would have never occurred to me. I carry a banana and an orange. Buen Camino

 

[pinkwadingbird]

When are you planning to be on the Camino Viejo with your drone? The CV is on my Camino wishlist. I want to be sure to pick a time that's drone-free if possible.

 

[joramos]

I am waiting for a drone with a "follow me” option that can carry a rucksack!

I believe most if not all the new drone models have the follow me capability you want. I know mine which is 5-6 years old has it.
Buen Camino.

 

[davebugg]

Today: “When is the best time to walk a Camino that is less crowded?”.

Tomorrow: “When is the best time to walk a Camino to avoid flocks of drones?”

 

[dick bird]

Just bear in mind that Spain has surprisingly strict privacy laws governing photography or images of individuals taken without their knowledge or consent (regardless of the technology used).

 

[SabsP]

Some more info.
We take privacy laws seriously in Europe.

https://www.aepd.es/guides/drones-and-data-protection.pdf

Privacy | EASA

Image

www.easa.europa.eu

 

[Bradypus]

Tomorrow: “When is the best time to walk a Camino to avoid flocks of drones?”

1990 was a good year for that....

 

[lt56ny]

What happened to simplicity?

 

[Bradypus]

Just bear in mind that Spain has surprisingly strict privacy laws governing photography or images of individuals taken without their knowledge or consent (regardless of the technology used).

Are the laws ever actually enforced with regard to photos or videos taken in public places? I very strongly resent having my photo taken without my permission and am only slightly less grumpy when someone does ask first. I know that a drone flying near me would raise my hackles a lot but I doubt I would lodge an official complaint anywhere.

 

[SouthernBoy]

I'd like to know about people who has flown drones on the Camino.
I'm planning on doing the Camino, only in Spain. Thinking about taking with me a drone with camera that weights less than 250g.
Any suggestions?!

Suggestion? Please don't!

 

[Roland49]

I'd like to know about people who has flown drones on the Camino.
I'm planning on doing the Camino, only in Spain. Thinking about taking with me a drone with camera that weights less than 250g.
Any suggestions?!

If you use a DJI drone, just switch it on and do a firmware-update to the given GPS-Data the drone found.

After that you can be sure, that the drone is behaving like the EU is regulating, especially the no-fly-zones, flight-height and distance. Make sure, that you follow the EU-rules in operating UAVs.

The fines are hefty, if you get caught.

 

[Paulo Arantes]

Well, I didn't think it would be necessary to be clearer about this, but I would like to put it on record so I don't have to rely on everyone's interpretation here.
As I said above, I am starting a project to help demarcate and popularize the Camino Viejo from Pamplona, a route that is rarely walked to this day. This project is based on information from very experienced pilgrims.
Due to the fact that it is little used, the routes are not yet well defined.
My intention of using the drone is exactly to be able to document where I am going and evaluate other possible options or problems on the road ahead with the drone.
I understand the reservations made by other users like @Robo, @pinkwadingbird, @davebugg, @lt56ny, @SouthernBoy . I think such suggestions/criticism should be directed not at a drone but at the education, respect and knowledge of rules of its operators.
Spain is extremely strict in the rules for using these devices, however, excluding area restrictions, none of its rules bring restrictions to me as I know how to respect individual rights to image, privacy and especially the moment that people have during their pilgrimage. to Santiago de Compostela.
This is not my first Camino and if there was any doubt that I would not take this care, I make it clear to you that I will.
And again, let us restrict ourselves to helping people not invade the privacy or ruin the experience of others by simply asking for respect on their pilgrimage and that they take this into their daily lives. Whether this is used in the use of drones or in respecting the bed, rest and food of our pilgrim brothers.
Thank you very much to everyone who brought suggestions and constructive criticism to my request.

For anyone interested in finding out more about the project, I leave the link below:

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/the-real-camino-viejo-a-new-project-for-a-camino-alternative.87309/

 

[Roland49]

Just bear in mind that Spain has surprisingly strict privacy laws governing photography or images of individuals taken without their knowledge or consent (regardless of the technology used).

ROFL
Come to Germany, there you'll find one of the most restricting privacy laws on this planet!

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

I'd like to know about people who has flown drones on the Camino.
I'm planning on doing the Camino, only in Spain. Thinking about taking with me a drone with camera that weights less than 250g.
Any suggestions?!

For rules etc. please read the following,

https://www.grupooneair.com/spanish-drones-laws/#:~:text=from%20August%202024.-,General%20restrictions%20for%20flying%20drones%20in%20Spain,Liability%20insurance%20is%20mandatory.

 

[CWBuff]

Are the laws ever actually enforced with regard to photos or videos taken in public places? I very strongly resent having my photo taken without my permission and am only slightly less grumpy when someone does ask first. I know that a drone flying near me would raise my hackles a lot but I doubt I would lodge an official complaint anywhere.

I've touched on it in one of the previous posts - while I do "respect peoples privacy" there is IIRC something that governs (if you will) everyone's presence in public places. I absolutely agree that I should NOT stick my camera in your face and take your portrait without your explicit permission but I am NOT running after every person that is "in the background\foreground" of Plaza Obradoiro while I am taking shots of the cathedral (or my fellow Pilgrims there or any other places on the path).
You are in public place - you can reasonably presume that you are in someone's photo or video.

(all the "yous" above are colloquial\general sense and not directed at @Bradypus specifically)

 

[CWBuff]

Today: “When is the best time to walk a Camino that is less crowded?”.

Tomorrow: “When is the best time to walk a Camino to avoid flocks of drones?”

1990 was a good year for that....

In the year 2525 If man is still alive.....

 

[dick bird]

I've touched on it in one of the previous posts - while I do "respect peoples privacy" there is IIRC something that governs (if you will) everyone's presence in public places. I absolutely agree that I should NOT stick my camera in your face and take your portrait without your explicit permission but I am NOT running after every person that is "in the background\foreground" of Plaza Obradoiro while I am taking shots of the cathedral (or my fellow Pilgrims there or any other places on the path).
You are in public place - you can reasonably presume that you are in someone's photo or video.

(all the "yous" above are colloquial\general sense and not directed at @Bradypus specifically)

Spanish privacy law allows for photos of public events and places etc. it’s a grey area, but if someone appears to be the main subject of an image, or is recognizable as an individual in an image, you could be contravening the law. You (ie one) needs to be sensitive and careful.

 

[dick bird]

Are the laws ever actually enforced with regard to photos or videos taken in public places? I very strongly resent having my photo taken without my permission and am only slightly less grumpy when someone does ask first. I know that a drone flying near me would raise my hackles a lot but I doubt I would lodge an official complaint anywhere.

You could ask someone not to do it and have the law on your side. If they publish, get a lawyer.

 

[Bradypus]

You could ask someone not to do it and have the law on your side. If they publish, get a lawyer.

As I said before - I can't imagine making a formal complaint in such a situation. But I do not accept the idea that my being in a public place makes me fair game for anyone with a camera or a drone. I would have to wonder about the peculiar aesthetic tastes of someone who would choose me as a subject anyway....

 

[Mike ward]

I'd like to know about people who has flown drones on the Camino.
I'm planning on doing the Camino, only in Spain. Thinking about taking with me a drone with camera that weights less than 250g.
Any suggestions?!

Check out @Walk_with_Efren on YouTube he inspired me to walk the Camino in 2018 with amazing drone shots

 

[Jose Abalo]

That's for sure. The intention is fly only when there's no one else near.
I'll be walking a less travelled route (Camino Viejo) and the intention is to document the new path.

I filed a registration document with the aviation department of Spain. Anyone had this document asked?!

Hi Paulo,
I, like you would also like to take a drone on my next camino in 2025. Can you let me know where did you get the document to fly your drone? Can you post the link to that document here? Regards Jose

 

[Roland49]

AFAIK you have to be registered inside the EU and have to be insured for liability in case the drone will harm people, goods or rights of others (in my case it's included in my allround private liability-insurance).
The drone must have a fixed plaquet with the EU-registration-number of the pilot. You can't register w/o a valid insurance-number.

That laws and regulations should be harmonized inside the EU, so if you register in any given EU country you can fly your drone in every country of the EU. I will be on vacation in Tuscany and the regulations in Italy are the same as in Germany. So I can fly my drone legally there.

 

[mjal]

As I said before - I can't imagine making a formal complaint in such a situation. But I do not accept the idea that my being in a public place makes me fair game for anyone with a camera or a drone. I would have to wonder about the peculiar aesthetic tastes of someone who would choose me as a subject anyway....

You are aware that in the UK, in a public place, you are "fair game" for anyone with a camera? The photographer would also be able to record your image when you are on private land as long as (s)he is on public land. Perhaps you are no longer living in this country?
Commercial use of images requires further consideration...

 

[Bradypus]

You are aware that in the UK, in a public place, you are "fair game" for anyone with a camera? The photographer would also be able to record your image when you are on private land as long as (s)he is on public land. Perhaps you are no longer living in this country?
Commercial use of images requires further consideration...

I do understand that the law may permit it. I do not have to approve of that situation.

 

[davebugg]

I understand the reservations made by other users like @Robo, @pinkwadingbird, @davebugg, @lt56ny, @SouthernBoy . I think such suggestions/criticism should be directed not at a drone but at the education, respect and knowledge of rules of its operators.

Apologies. I intended to make a joke, not a criticism. Critical to that distinction of my criticisms as criticisms vs joking around, is the use of critical contemporary concerns being leveraged for use in non-critical humor.

Critical parameters also include the motivation. Now, I intend no offense or criticism to your posting about being critical. As you say, "It is not the Drones which annoy, it is the drone operators who do."

Just a joke. . . Big, Smiley-Face!!

 

[davebugg]

When out in public, there cannot be any reasonable expectation of privacy. I agree with that notion. It makes common sense.

Any photos or video captures that happen to include me -- when outside of my private property -- is going to be part of life in the modern world where picture takers are all around us. When someone is taking photos or videos and I am just an incidental part of the scenery or background as opposed to being the main subject, that is just par for the course.

Theoretically -- The only time I would take exception is if someone intentionally invades my personal space/bubble with a camera or drone. At that point, the person is making ME the subject. If they do not have my permission, I would tell the gomer to stop it and back off. . . saying 'please' is based on the circumstance and attitude of the offender.

In reality -- I doubt if someone with a drone would be that much of an obliviot.

 

[Camo]

I'd like to know about people who has flown drones on the Camino.
I'm planning on doing the Camino, only in Spain. Thinking about taking with me a drone with camera that weights less than 250g.
Any suggestions?!

2 questions

1 are you using a dji?

2 are you just taking video or taking Google Street View?

 

[David Tallan]

I believe most if not all the new drone models have the follow me capability you want. I know mine which is 5-6 years old has it.
Buen Camino.

But can yours carry a rucksack? That was the second half of what was being sought.

 

[Vancouver Rose]

A fellow walking about 100 meters behind me in 2022 was using one. It kept flying above me (only by about 2 meters). It was mighty annoying and frankly, felt a bit voyeuristic to me. I wondered if my walking pole might be able to swipe it out of the air directly above me, but then channeled my inner sanity, which had very nearly evaporated and decided to pull off the trail, let him get 5 - 10 minutes ahead of me, and carry on in peace. If you choose to use it on the trail, do so respectfully.

 

[Cicada]

A drone on the Camino???? On a pilgrimage? Would have never occurred to me. I carry a banana and an orange. Buen Camino

I agree! I must be getting old!!!

 

[Camo]

When out in public, there cannot be any reasonable expectation of privacy. I agree with that notion. It makes common sense.

Any photos or video captures that happen to include me -- when outside of my private property -- is going to be part of life in the modern world where picture takers are all around us. When someone is taking photos or videos and I am just an incidental part of the scenery or background as opposed to being the main subject, that is just par for the course.

Theoretically -- The only time I would take exception is if someone intentionally invades my personal space/bubble with a camera or drone. At that point, the person is making ME the subject. If they do not have my permission, I would tell the gomer to stop it and back off. . . saying 'please' is based on the circumstance and attitude of the offender.

In reality -- I doubt if someone with a drone would be that much of an obliviot.

I agree totally but the issue of privacy is (or should be) eliminated by virtue of the height of the camera. That is to say as long as the user is "professional" she/he will be taking advantage of the ability of the drone to "rise and take the BIG pano/video/picture" where all you will see is tops of heads as small dots.

However my experience is MOST drone users are just "grown up kids" with expensive toys looking for someone to impress with their "loop the loops" as people here are sadly relating.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

What happened to simplicity?

There's an interesting article in today's Guardian online about the way wedding photography had changed. Instead of a photographer capturing the main events and Gran with her Instamatic you now have "content creators" and videographer and everything has to be stage managed - including, in one case, where the videographer wasn't ready for "the kiss" and shouted out "Not yet!"

The last sentence of the article is quite telling:

“Sometimes I’ve got to remind them that it’s a celebration. There’s a load of tradition around it but it’s about celebration and bringing people together and looking after your guests, and not turning it into a photoshoot.”

Is it a Camino or is it an Influencer's travelog?

 

[Miki Goldie]

Check out EFREN GONZALES on you tube.....he's the best
Love

 

[Janade]

If there is no one else around and one is using a drone to photograph the landscape, that’s one thing. However, if pilgrims are on the trail, flying a drone in the vicinity is inconsiderate and annoying. I liken it to those who play loud music while they walk/hike or those who blow cigarette smoke towards others. Because one has the right to do these things does not mean it is the right thing to do when it negatively impacts the experience of others.

 

[oursonpolaire]

You are aware that in the UK, in a public place, you are "fair game" for anyone with a camera? The photographer would also be able to record your image when you are on private land as long as (s)he is on public land. Perhaps you are no longer living in this country?
Commercial use of images requires further consideration...

This may be true in the UK and is largely so in the US and Canada (except Québec, where the Civil Code is explicit about one's exclusive rights to one's image, and expensive for those who do not respect this), but it is NOT so for Spain and most European countries. The subject's permission is required-- you will note in Spanish news coverage, faces of passersby are blurred for legal reasons. In the Basque country, there is a general objection to photography of individuals without permission, for historical reasons.

There's lots of reference material out there for this.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

This may be true in the UK and is largely so in the US and Canada (except Québec, where the Civil Code is explicit about one's exclusive rights to one's image, and expensive for those who do not respect this), but it is NOT so for Spain and most European countries. The subject's permission is required-- you will note in Spanish news coverage, faces of passersby are blurred for legal reasons. In the Basque country, there is a general objection to photography of individuals without permission, for historical reasons.

There's lots of reference material out there for this.

I remember on my first trip to Spain in 1965 the travel courier saying: "If you want to keep your camera and do not want a night in a police cell then do not photograph members of the Guardia Civil!"

 

[JerryStroebele]

Holy moly, this thread is really droning on and on. I thought the Camino was all about pilgrimage and WALKING. Buen Camino

 

[oursonpolaire]

Holy moly, this thread is really droning on and on. I thought the Camino was all about pilgrimage and WALKING. Buen Camino

I assure you that there are many threads I ignore. Leaving them alone will always bring me great pleasure.

 

[Frankybaby66]

Holy moly, this thread is really droning on and on. I thought the Camino was all about pilgrimage and WALKING. Buen Camino

Well said . . .

 

[VNwalking]

My intention of using the drone is exactly to be able to document where I am going

A gps track will do that just fine.

and evaluate other possible options or problems on the road ahead with the drone.

Same. Or a good map/map app.

 

[Camo]

A gps track will do that just fine.


Same. Or a good map/map app.

IMHO (and use) ALL of these things (including a drone) can be useful in documenting a trail path such as a Camino.

Take a look at my Trackcard 3 for Frances (Pamplona to Puente La Reina) and click on Pano #30 which is a magnificent drone pano of the approach to Puente La Reina - open on a laptop with tab in top right on full screen and take a good look around at this amazing situation remembering that not all people are ABLE to actually walk the Caminos (eg like me).

I defy you to find any people, just a few high flying birds.

In all the 320 panos I have used as "index panos" on the Camino Frances there are only about 3 of these from a drone and NONE are taken by pilgrims unfortunately.

As the OP says the drone to do this is a tiny device that weighs next to nothing and can easily be carried by a pilgrim interested in enhancing the Camino experience for those less fortunate.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

IMHO (and use) ALL of these things (including a drone) can be useful in documenting a trail path such as a Camino.

Take a look at my Trackcard 3 for Frances (Pamplona to Puente La Reina) and click on Pano #30 which is a magnificent drone pano of the approach to Puente La Reina - open on a laptop with tab in top right on full screen and take a good look around at this amazing situation remembering that not all people are ABLE to actually walk the Caminos (eg like me).

I defy you to find any people, just a few high flying birds.

In all the 320 panos I have used as "index panos" on the Camino Frances there are only about 3 of these from a drone and NONE are taken by pilgrims unfortunately.

As the OP says the drone to do this is a tiny device that weighs next to nothing and can easily be carried by a pilgrim interested in enhancing the Camino experience for those less fortunate.

Very nice indeed. My screen clipped off the bottom of the map so I couldn't see the legend "See Notes Below" and clicked futilely until I had the sense to scroll down!
Almost as much fun as being there - thank you.

EDIT: that's much more controllable than viewing it on StreetView - well done!

 

[Paulo Arantes]

IMHO (and use) ALL of these things (including a drone) can be useful in documenting a trail path such as a Camino.

Take a look at my Trackcard 3 for Frances (Pamplona to Puente La Reina) and click on Pano #30 which is a magnificent drone pano of the approach to Puente La Reina - open on a laptop with tab in top right on full screen and take a good look around at this amazing situation remembering that not all people are ABLE to actually walk the Caminos (eg like me).

I defy you to find any people, just a few high flying birds.

In all the 320 panos I have used as "index panos" on the Camino Frances there are only about 3 of these from a drone and NONE are taken by pilgrims unfortunately.

As the OP says the drone to do this is a tiny device that weighs next to nothing and can easily be carried by a pilgrim interested in enhancing the Camino experience for those less fortunate.

Really very nice! Thank you.

 

[lt56ny]

Apologies. I intended to make a joke, not a criticism. Critical to that distinction of my criticisms as criticisms vs joking around, is the use of critical contemporary concerns being leveraged for use in non-critical humor.

Critical parameters also include the motivation. Now, I intend no offense or criticism to your posting about being critical. As you say, "It is not the Drones which annoy, it is the drone operators who do."

Just a joke. . . Big, Smiley-Face!!

But with no drone there is no annoying operator. And no fear of the drone crashing or hitting someone or something!

 

[Camo]

Really very nice! Thank you.

So Paulo, are you including Street View in your own project?

 

[Camo]

But with no drone there is no annoying operator. And no fear of the drone crashing or hitting someone or something!

So to take this to the logical conclusion, no Camino then no pilgrims. Somewhere along the line RESPONSIBILITY is needed or we are always throwing the baby out with the bathwater

 

[Camo]

Very nice indeed. My screen clipped off the bottom of the map so I couldn't see the legend "See Notes Below" and clicked futilely until I had the sense to scroll down!
Almost as much fun as being there - thank you.

EDIT: that's much more controllable than viewing it on StreetView - well done!

Yes, that is my Web-App solution using stacked iframes to avoiding the nasty "menu system" that worked fine on desktop PCs but became very messy (any easy to get lost) on mobile devices.

Schopenhauer says it will take on - but not in my lifetime.

 

[lt56ny]

So to take this to the logical conclusion, no Camino then no pilgrims. Somewhere along the line RESPONSIBILITY is needed or we are always throwing the baby out with the bathwater

Sorry but this analogy makes no sense whatsoever to me. There is no logical conclusion or even connection between someone flying a drone and no camino then no pilgrims. The CAMINO WILL ALWAYS be there, in spite of intrusive drones flying overhead and possibly causing accidents. Pilgrims have walked for over 1000 years. The have received this privilege because the Camino grants us this. So it is completely illogical and pretty audacious to ever say no Camino, let alone no pilgrims.
Finally getting back to my first point, what happened to simplicity. I know some people look at the camino as something to make money from, some for a vacation, some for partying, some for reflection, some to get over grief or pain. There are so many reasons. I come from a place that the camino means simplicity and some pain and some joy and some freedom from my thoughts and burdens. Simplicity matters greatly to me. I walked my first 2 caminos without even a phone. Now I bring a phone because my wife insists on it. Simplicity is not a drone, or computers, or the many varied "conveniences of modern life". I am not condemning anyone for what they carry or what they want. it isn't my business but anything that intrudes on me like a drone or even an alarm that thoughtlessly goes off at 5AM, or deciding to pack at 4AM or playing with your phone at 3AM with the light in my eyes does intrude on me and I have a right to respectfully express my opinion.

 

[dick bird]

So to take this to the logical conclusion, no Camino then no pilgrims. Somewhere along the line RESPONSIBILITY is needed or we are always throwing the baby out with the bathwater

Er, actually it would be more logical (in terms of cause and effect) to say ‘no pilgrims, no Camino’.
“Caminante, no hay camino
El camino se hace por andar”.

 

[David Tallan]

Sorry but this analogy makes no sense whatsoever to me. There is no logical conclusion or even connection between someone flying a drone and no camino then no pilgrims. The CAMINO WILL ALWAYS be there, in spite of intrusive drones flying overhead and possibly causing accidents. Pilgrims have walked for over 1000 years. The have received this privilege because the Camino grants us this. So it is completely illogical and pretty audacious to ever say no Camino, let alone no pilgrims.
Finally getting back to my first point, what happened to simplicity. I know some people look at the camino as something to make money from, some for a vacation, some for partying, some for reflection, some to get over grief or pain. There are so many reasons. I come from a place that the camino means simplicity and some pain and some joy and some freedom from my thoughts and burdens. Simplicity matters greatly to me. I walked my first 2 caminos without even a phone. Now I bring a phone because my wife insists on it. Simplicity is not a drone, or computers, or the many varied "conveniences of modern life". I am not condemning anyone for what they carry or what they want. it isn't my business but anything that intrudes on me like a drone or even an alarm that thoughtlessly goes off at 5AM, or deciding to pack at 4AM or playing with your phone at 3AM with the light in my eyes does intrude on me and I have a right to respectfully express my opinion.

I think where Camo is going with this is:
There can be good drone operators and bad drone operators. For context, OP has repeatedly stated he has not intention of flying a drone on popular Camino routes or when there are any pilgrims around. As he wrote:

As I said above, I am starting a project to help demarcate and popularize the Camino Viejo from Pamplona, a route that is rarely walked to this day. This project is based on information from very experienced pilgrims.
Due to the fact that it is little used, the routes are not yet well defined.
My intention of using the drone is exactly to be able to document where I am going and evaluate other possible options or problems on the road ahead with the drone.
...
I know how to respect individual rights to image, privacy and especially the moment that people have during their pilgrimage. to Santiago de Compostela.
This is not my first Camino and if there was any doubt that I would not take this care, I make it clear to you that I will.

Despite that, your response seems to be "Let's have no drones, that will enable us to ensure that there are no annoying drone operators."

Similarly, there are nice pilgrims and annoying ones. We've all read plenty of threads about the annoying ones (the snorers and those who complain about the snorers, those who go to bed too late and those who get up too early, and so on ad infinitum). If we got rid of the Camino, that would get rid of all the annoying pilgrims.

Of course, this is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Better something a bit more targeted. Perhaps the same could be said with regards to drones.

 

[lt56ny]

I think where Camo is going with this is:
There can be good drone operators and bad drone operators. For context, OP has repeatedly stated he has not intention of flying a drone on popular Camino routes or when there are any pilgrims around. As he wrote:

Despite that, your response seems to be "Let's have no drones, that will enable us to ensure that there are no annoying drone operators."

Similarly, there are nice pilgrims and annoying ones. We've all read plenty of threads about the annoying ones (the snorers and those who complain about the snorers, those who go to bed too late and those who get up too early, and so on ad infinitum). If we got rid of the Camino, that would get rid of all the annoying pilgrims.

Of course, this is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Better something a bit more targeted. Perhaps the same could be said with regards to drones.

nothing you wrote I disagree with it is the whole idea of technology and its intrusions as well as pilgrims who are annoying and disrespectful that I was alluding to. You can get rid of pilgrims but the camino in some manner will always be there. History does prove this. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

 

[WGroleau]

I am waiting for a drone with a "follow me” option that can carry a rucksack!

You could probably get one from Amazon, if their search function wasn’t so broken.

Download the "ENAIRE Drones" app which shows airspace regulations for all locations in Spain.

Thanks for posting that. Many have flown drones on the Camino, but I doubt many have bothered to check for legality.

 

[WGroleau]

And again, let us restrict ourselves to helping people not invade the privacy or ruin the experience of others by simply asking for respect on their pilgrimage and that they take this into their daily lives. Whether this is used in the use of drones or in respecting the bed, rest and food of our pilgrim brothers.

If you had included more of your explanation in the starting post (including this request), perhaps most of us would not have felt the need to post it ourselves.

 

[WGroleau]

I agree totally but the issue of privacy is (or should be) eliminated by virtue of the height of the camera. That is to say as long as the user is "professional" she/he will be taking advantage of the ability of the drone to "rise and take the BIG pano/video/picture" where all you will see is tops of heads as small dots.

Personally, if I were looking for a vicarious camino video, I would like one from two or three meters high. It would still get only the backs of heads, except for folks walking the other way. (If I were to publish such a video, I would blur faces and other identifiers.)

That said, I think just as useful as a video would be a map with clickable waypoints to bring up still photos. For a not-particularly useful example, https://happyhobo.net/20160408/

 

[william thomas]

I'm against it. I thought about getting a drone, but judging by how much they annoy me, I knew I would become an annoyance myself. Is that what you want on a pilgrimage, people radiating bad vibes towards you? Get a drone if you have a particular worthy reason to do so, but just becoming a buzzer means you are oart of the problem, not the solution.

 

[donnaonthego]

Just don't fly it near other Pilgrims

Last year at the Cruz de Ferro a drone was buzzing around the cross!
Kind of killed the mood a bit......

Agree. I found the drones really annoying as well.

 

[donnaonthego]

I agree totally but the issue of privacy is (or should be) eliminated by virtue of the height of the camera. That is to say as long as the user is "professional" she/he will be taking advantage of the ability of the drone to "rise and take the BIG pano/video/picture" where all you will see is tops of heads as small dots.

However my experience is MOST drone users are just "grown up kids" with expensive toys looking for someone to impress with their "loop the loops" as people here are sadly relating.

Agree

 

[donnaonthego]

I think the most helpful rule for all of us to follow is: "How would it be if everyone did what I'm doing (or propose to do)?" If the answer is, "The Camino would be a better place for everyone!" then you should do it. If the answer is, "The Camino would become a nightmare," don't do it.

Here's a small example: I met a man who told me he only stayed in donativos and municipal albergues. He then informed me that he shipped his luggage each day. I was stumped and said, "Wait, how can you ship your luggage to a donativo? I thought that wasn't allowed." He proudly responded, "Oh, no problem. I ship it to the nearest hotel. Then I go into the lobby and retrieve my luggage, and take it to the donativo. The next day, I get back into the hotel lobby to drop it off again. It's easy."

Now imagine if everyone on the Camino shipped their bags to hotels where they were NOT staying. It would be pandemonium. See what I mean?

I'm happy to report that I bit my tongue. There's a permanent scar...but I bit my tongue.

So, in this case, how would it be if everyone who hiked the Camino walked along with a drone? Would that make the Camino a better place? If yes, then do it. If not, then don't. I only encountered a couple of drones on the Camino Frances, but found them extremely annoying. It would be an absolute nightmare if the Camino became filled with them.

I read in the thread that this gentleman has a larger purpose: to introduce a new Camino route. But as a general life rule, the most dangerous words in the English language are "in my particular case." Because we can use those four words to justify almost any behavior.

 

[seasonsincolour]

I'd like to know about people who has flown drones on the Camino.
I'm planning on doing the Camino, only in Spain. Thinking about taking with me a drone with camera that weights less than 250g.
Any suggestions?!

I am walking the Portuguese, Tui to Santiago and today I am in Padron. I saw no one with a drone or with anything other than mobile phone for photos (with exception of one person who had a DSLR camera).

I brought my Mavic Mini 4 and an Osmo Pocket 4. I flew my Mini some days because the weather was not always great.

Got fantastic shots in Tui, of the cathedral and river. Again on the route from Redondela to Arcade, where you see the sea for the first time. If the weather in Tui was better, I would have had so much fun with it, eg flying it under the bridge, over the fortezza etc.

Some thoughts:

The drone, controller, bag and one extra battery add to the weight of your backpack (I had my luggage transferred with one of the transport companies).

It’s not as easy to get it out and fly on a whim. Especially as you progress in your daily stage and are tired. If travelling with a companion, they will need to be understanding!

You don’t need any liability insurance unless you are flying it for commercial reasons.

You have every right to fly your drone in touristic attractions and parks, certainly in the countryside just remember not over crowds (and sorry to fellow pilgrims, but 10 groups of 2-3 pilgrims stretching over 500m does not constitute a crowd).

Your drone will buzz for 5 seconds until it reached 30m height where it will no longer be audible and unless you are specifically following it, it won’t be visible either unless you’re looking for it. Above that height, forget it, you can’t see much of a 250g drone. Flying from above it can certainly not catch any facial features or see through windows to be breaching any privacy.

There are more annoying things on the Camino than drones.

- Like cyclists who think you need to step aside as if you have rear vision, the ones who don’t have any bell but want to cycle fast and think everyone has the reflexes of The Flash (my 76y old dad does not).
- Like pilgrims with walking poles who don’t add the rubber end on the asphalt and you have to hear the constant scratching against the hard surface.
- Like pilgrims with walking poles who don’t know they need to adjust the height of their pole (I’m a skier so it bothers me, I mean HOW ANNOYING)
- Like walking next to a highway after spending two hours in the forest and being driven mad by the car noise and exhaust fumes.
-Like arriving at your destination around 3, checking into your accommodation, getting out to eat and finding that every restaurant is closed until 8.


Just take your pick of things to get mad at

I hope you have a fantastic time droning and capturing the world from above, it really is amazing. I love the difference in perspective.

Word of caution: seagulls don’t like drones. If you hear seagulls where you are, best not to take it up. If you see birds starting to circle your drone, bring it down quickly. You don’t want to hurt the bird or damage your drone.

Buen Camino.
@seasonsincolour

 

[Onslow]

Ah the spirit of the Camino. A time for being with one's thoughts, nature and fellow pilgrims.

Now plus an encroaching and invasive outside world.

 

[MaxHelado]

you don’t need liability insurance unless you are flying the drone for commercial reasons.

Can you please let me know the source for this?
My research on drones in Spain led me to the conclusion that insurane IS obligatory. Of course I may be wrong but this is a very important point and we need to be sure.
The following is from the AESA website:

“Los UAS profesionales con MTOM igual o inferior a 20Kg y aquellos con fines recreativos se deberán ajustar a lo indicado en el Real Decreto 37/2001, de 19 de enero, por el que se actualiza la cuantía de las indemnizaciones por daños prevista en la Ley de Navegación Aérea.”

My Spanish is not perfect but that seems to say that professional and recreational drone operators must have indemnity insurance.

- there is no privacy to consider when flying your drone while walking out in the countryside.

Not sure I’m with you on this one. I think there is always privacy of others to consider. One thing is the law but another is respect for others. IMHO we must address both.

 

[seasonsincolour]

Can you please let me know the source for this?

Yes, my pilot testing material for my pilot (not just operator) licence in 3 countries including Spain, which includes examples of where and how to fly your drone and clearly indicates what I described.

As for the privacy of others, why do you assume that drone pilots are disrespectful?

Anyway, I came to answer the poster’s question, as a licensed operator and pilot. Buen Camino!

 

[VNwalking]

As for the privacy of others, why do you assume that drone pilots are disrespectful?

Because (from experience) they usually are and couldn't care less. Or worse, get defensive and angry that you don't like their toys buzzing you.

Of course it's wrong to generalize from that, In which case an apology is needed.

 

[dick bird]

Another point to consider is disturbance to wild life, especially birds, in rural areas. For this reason drones are banned in National Parks in many countries.

 

[VNwalking]

Thank you, @dick bird . This is something most people don't think of - and it's actually much more important than our petty annoyance.

 

[WGroleau]

Personally, if I were looking for a vicarious camino video, I would like one from two or three meters high.

Actually, it depends on the camera. I would like the view to appear as if my eyes were seeing it from there, which could mean a magnified/zoomed view from much higher.

 

[David Tallan]

I think the most helpful rule for all of us to follow is: "How would it be if everyone did what I'm doing (or propose to do)?" If the answer is, "The Camino would be a better place for everyone!" then you should do it. If the answer is, "The Camino would become a nightmare," don't do it.

Here's a small example: I met a man who told me he only stayed in donativos and municipal albergues. He then informed me that he shipped his luggage each day. I was stumped and said, "Wait, how can you ship your luggage to a donativo? I thought that wasn't allowed." He proudly responded, "Oh, no problem. I ship it to the nearest hotel. Then I go into the lobby and retrieve my luggage, and take it to the donativo. The next day, I get back into the hotel lobby to drop it off again. It's easy."

Now imagine if everyone on the Camino shipped their bags to hotels where they were NOT staying. It would be pandemonium. See what I mean?

I'm happy to report that I bit my tongue. There's a permanent scar...but I bit my tongue.

So, in this case, how would it be if everyone who hiked the Camino walked along with a drone? Would that make the Camino a better place? If yes, then do it. If not, then don't. I only encountered a couple of drones on the Camino Frances, but found them extremely annoying. It would be an absolute nightmare if the Camino became filled with them.

I read in the thread that this gentleman has a larger purpose: to introduce a new Camino route. But as a general life rule, the most dangerous words in the English language are "in my particular case." Because we can use those four words to justify almost any behavior.

The only words more dangerous than "in my particular case" are "no exceptions". Human beings are not all the same and as a result, human circumstances and contexts are not all the same. The world is a much better place when we can apply good judgement and adapt to individual circumstances.

I know that the "how would it be if everyone did it" as a well known ethical test, but it has never sat well with me. Let's imagine me applying it to a few simple scenarios. Let's say I wanted to choose a profession. Should I be a doctor? By this test, clearly not. If everyone was a doctor then no one would grow the food, build the homes, and many other things needed for society to survive. But it is absurd to say that medicine is an unethical career choice. Or how about should I take a vacation this week? Clearly not, if everyone took a vacation this week, things would grind to a halt and no one would be enjoying themselves as much. Or for an example closer tp the Camino, "should I stay in a donativo and avoid other kinds of accommodations?" If everyone did so, there would be nowhere near enough accommodations for the number of pilgrims there are and it would be a nightmare. Does that mean it is unethical to sleep in a donativo? I dont think so. It really isn't as practical and reasonable a test as people think it is. Much better to judge the merits of something for someone and worry less about what others are doing. Or so it seems to me.

 

[VNwalking]

"What if everyone did X" is less about ethiics than about cumulative effect. In this case it's a good question, I think.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Any suggestions?!

Yes I have a suggestion. My suggestion to you is to try to figure out a better way to meet your goals that doesn't offend a large number of people.

Paulo, you seem like a very nice individual with a wonderful project.

But if you're not, you should be simply aware that there's a significant group of people, including myself, who despise drones. Whether they're being used properly, with registration and insurance, or not. I can't stand that those things flying around in the sky, and if it was up to me, they would be illegal.

And I think I'm far from alone.

It has nothing to do with the photography, witch doesn't bother me. I can understand the draw, because the footage can be quite interesting and educational. But in the end, what they are is impolite.

Good luck with your project whatever you decide to do.

 

[David Tallan]

"What if everyone did X" is less about ethiics than about cumulative effect. In this case it's a good question, I think.

I think my point still stands. There are plenty of things that are good in moderation but not to excess. Good if some people do them but not good if everybody does them. My examples fit this mould. Just because something is bad in excess (when  everybody does it) does not make it bad when only a few people do it, and therefore something that should be avoided.

 

[David Tallan]

Yes I have a suggestion. My suggestion to you is to try to figure out a better way to meet your goals that doesn't offend a large number of people.

I'm not seeing how using a drone on a rarely walked route, away from all pilgrims (which is what is being proposed) offends a large number of people. Which people are being offended? Why?

The only people I see being offended are people who don't want drones close to them. As proposed, this drone will not be near other pilgrims. Or people who are offended by the existence of drones at all in this world, even if they are far from all others bothering no one. I do not think this is a large group, and these sensitivities I do not think need to be catered to.

You seem to be in the latter group. If a drone is flown in isolation, far from other people, how is that impolite? Who is impolite to?

 

[VNwalking]

If a drone is flown in isolation, far from other people, how is that impolite? Who is impolite to?

Birds, for starters. For some reason we humans don't think they count.

I do not think this is a large group, and these sensitivities I do not think need to be catered to.

Who knows how large this group is? And why not consider them?

In this case there are plenty of ways to wayfind that do not require a drone. So (very practically) why lug one around? That said, @Paulo Arantes , if there's another reason to take it, just be sure that others (including wildlife) are not impacted.

 

[alexwalker]

In my city (which is a heavy tourist place), it is forbidden to use drones bc. approximaty to our airport, as well as a hefty bird life/hatching. This is informed about at arrival in the airport, hotels, and on websites & various apps. Nevertheless, each week, tourists are caught using them. The result? A fine of 3.000€, confiscated drone, and a seat on the next plane out of Norway at own expense.

Personally I am neither pro nor con.

Edit: General drone rules for Norway (In Spanish (!))

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I'm not seeing how using a drone on a rarely walked route, away from all pilgrims (which is what is being proposed) offends a large number of people. Which people are being offended? Why?

You seem to be in the latter group. If a drone is flown in isolation, far from other people, how is that impolite? Who is impolite to?

Admittedly, my observations are an unsupported opinion.

The opinion is based on conversations with other people when we've seen drones flying near us and are unhappy as I am.

But I don't think I am wrong. Many people do not like the drones. But I have no research to back that up.

Of course there is no impoliteness to other people if the drone is flown in isolation. But Spain and the EU are fairly densely populated areas.

I don't know what the birds think. But I would guess that they see it as a potential predator/danger.

I was just reminding Paulo and other potential drone users that they are upsetting some people. The use of drones is not just fun and nor is it inconsequential. IMO.

 

[alexwalker]

I did some Googling for Spain:

Spanish drone laws
Possible drone fines in Spain

These rules and fines are heftier than in Norway, by far.

Notice that fines may be as much as 225.000€ (!)