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This subject came up in a Facebook group yesterday. Apparently the entrance through the Portico had already been closed for more than a year before the filming of that scene in "The Way". The film crew paid a substantial sum for privileged access. So it was anachronistic even then.
Unless I am mistaken: The portals just in front of the Portica de la Gloria are only open to enter the Cathedral nave for the Solemn Mass at noon on 25 July. There are videos and live broadcast where you can see the King and a party of special guests entering as a procession. The rest of the congregation is already seated. I don't know where they got in. The portals for the Portica de la Gloria is not open all day on the 25th of July.
Yes, usually 2 accesses are opened:
Yeah. I was disappointed. I wanted to fall to my knees like the movie at the statue but that was not the case. As for Botafumeiro, even though it’s only guaranteed special days, many times they do it anyway when some group pays for it. I spent about 4 days in Santiago and I saw it and heard it was also done at another mass so that was at least 2 days when it wasn’t supposed to be done. Just attend all the masses and maybe you’ll get lucky.
Always worth remembering that (a) the film was made 15 years ago and things do change, and (b) the movie was light entertainment and fiction rather than documentary.
visitas.catedraldesantiago.es
Thank for this confirmation!
When I first walked into Santiago you were able to view the Portico without a problem. There were specific instructions that touching was not permitted. Bradyplus I think you have far more camino history than I. Memories fade and change but I do remember that I was able to walk up the front steps into the Cathedral after my first camino. But of course this may be just a fantasy and a memory gone bad!
Well thank you. I am surprised. The many posts that I have read about this had given me the impression that it was only in recent years that nobody could put their hand on the Parteluz of the Portico. So nobody has done so during the last 16 years or even longer???
2008 is quite recent for some of us...
In the Facebook discussion yesterday someone stated that there was an interim period when the main doors from the Obradoiro were closed but entry was still possible from a smaller door to the side. Before the Portico itself was closed off for a long-term restoration and became a ticket-only museum piece. Perhaps your visit was in that middle period? Johnnie Walker tells me that the Tree of Jesse was already out of bounds and protected by metal bars by the time of his arrival in Santiago in 2007.
My understanding is along these lines. There are actually entrances on all four sides of the Cathedral:
Thanks David I'll see how that translates on Google Maps
The queue for veneration of relic was after the pandemic, when they decided its ok to hug the statue.
The wooden screen was a provisional measure to protect the newly (and splendidly) renovated sculptures of the Portico de la Gloria from dust etc due to renovation work going on in other parts of the Cathedral. It is no longer there.
Strange. When I arrived at the Cathedral in July 2012 I was able to approach the Tree of Jesse and put my hand in the imprint. Not so on my second arrival in 2014, although we were still able to enter the Cathedral through the Portico.
Here is closeup of James's head with finger holes above
No@Camo, I am getting curious again: What is this "full Virtual Tour of the route" that you are working on? Is this question and our answers part of it?
Just remember that things are changing as the posts in this thread show.
I had a look at the photos: the person who is putting his hand on the Tree of Jesse column and who is clearly standing inside the metal rails that indicate that people should stay out of it; the person who is putting his hand on the Tree of Jesse column and his forehead on the sculpture at the foot of the column and obviously not knowing that the ritual that developed among the inhabitants of Santiago consisted of knocking one's forehead against the statue on the OTHER side of the column ...
At the top of the column with the Tree of Jesse is a detailed figure of Santiago. I think that the older pilgrims were probably acknowledging that image rather than misidentifying the carving at the base which I agree is much more likely to represent Daniel and the lions.
The woodwork was not present in Sep 2023.
This is a danger of relying on Google as a gospel source of truth. It isn't always accurate and up to date. Having been at that location last year, I can assure you that the woodwork you are concerned about no longer exists.
Looks like the cathedral website was also concerned per the word "mutilated"
Really....damn those Hollywood people....so when I let my rucksack fall into a river I was wasting my time ...and being a bit of an idiot ....never mind I caught it on my phone.
It was part of the provisional altar during the restoration works. See the Cathedral’s communication on their own website. They are a “iglesia viva” - a living and working church.
catedraldesantiago.es
Beware of webpages that have not been updated. This English text refers to the time when there was scaffolding because of the restoration works and which did not embellished viewing the Portico if you could view it at all during the works. This text is now gone from the original version of this webpage which is in Galician.
www.museocatedraldesantiago.gal
www.museocatedraldesantiago.gal
It was part of the provisional altar during the restoration works. See the Cathedral’s communication on their own website. They are a “iglesia viva” - a living and working church.
View attachment 165885Un crucificado gótico para el altar provisional de Santiago | Catedral de Santiago
Thanks heaps Kath - all is now clearBeware of webpages that have not been updated. This English text refers to the time when there was scaffolding because of the restoration works and which did not embellished viewing the Portico if you could view it at all during the works. This text is now gone from the original version of this webpage which is in Galician.
Compare:
O Pórtico da Gloria | MUSEO CATEDRAL DE SANTIAGO. Santiago de Compostela
@ET-DC@eyJkeW5hbWljIjp0cnVlLCJjb250ZW50IjoicG9zdF90aXRsZSIsInNldHRpbmdzIjp7ImJlZm9yZSI6IiIsImFmdGVyIjoiIn19@The Portico of Glory | MUSEO CATEDRAL DE SANTIAGO. Santiago de Compostela
The restoration of the Pórtico de la Gloria has been possible thanks to the patronage of the Fundación Barrié
The English version of their webpages is sometimes not up to date or less complete.
Well it's mildly interesting to dive into the architectural history of the Cathedral during the last five years or so. There is of course a much longer and more interesting architectural history before that.
This is interesting. I wonder when pilgrims started entering through the west portal. I always thought it had been for centuries (convinced, I admit, by the handprint that had been worn into the central column).
Thanks a lot for that David and although the Santiago behind the alter is also smiling (and huggable at a price) I agree that the Santiago in the Portico of Glory is the one I would rather have greet me (even if I have to pay).
Huh???
What price? Other than the effort of getting there of course.
Please keep us informed about these iconographic programmes of the portals - i.e. north, south and west portal. I have not got past this one as yet
These Romanesque sculptures have been put there at the foot of the column by an artist-tradesman of the 12th century so that people have something to comment about some 850 years later …
per Wiki:These Romanesque sculptures have been put there at the foot of the column by an artist-tradesman of the 12th century so that people have something to comment about some 850 years later …
Huh?
I am not particularly versed in the OT and the Book of Daniel and had to look it up. Nebuchadnezzar living among the wild animals is apparently a motif in religious art. The wild animals apparently don’t eat him.
Fascinating. Maybe his grandson will crop up next? Is there any writing on the wall?I am not particularly versed in the OT and the Book of Daniel and had to look it up. Nebuchadnezzar living among the wild animals is apparently a motif in religious art. The wild animals apparently don’t eat him.
So this is the second sculpture of a face of a person on the plinths of the Portico de la Gloria who is not represented as dead although it might appear so to the casual observer at first sight and without background knowledge. I am sure more of the same can be found.
That was already the case in 2005.
The west portal should be the "normal" entry point to those attending Mass, and certainly remains so in Santiago during certain specific rituals over the course of the liturgical year (though churchgoers can and do enter large churches through a variety of doors when they are open).
It says "possible" (in English) but Daniel is OLD Testament and so he is situated on the LEFT side of the Portal, and as he was not a martyr the base of "his column" has just beasties AND they are hungry for martyrs and don't look happy at all.
I went of course to look it up myself in my own copy and it made me smile: "Santiago, with his pilgrim staff, smiling to greet pilgrims after their arduous journey".
.
All I can say is that I have vivid memories of approaching the Portico of Glory upon arrival at the Cathedral in 1989 and placing my hand on the column. Maybe I am misremembering and didn't come through those doors. It certainly wouldn't be the first time my memory was faulty. Maybe I approached it from the other side and don't remember doing so because my memory of the approach has been completely superseded by my memory of the Portico. It's been a few years after all.FWIW, Baedeker, a widely known publishing house for travel guides founded 200 years ago - a kind of pioneer and authority in their field, published a guide for Spain in English in 1898. It describes the Cathedral of Santiago at the time:
View attachment 166810
We have this idea that pilgrims climbed the great stairs on Obradoiro square and entered the cathedral through the Portico de la Gloria for centuries and centuries, and now we are denied this. Has it really been like this? You be the judge ...
What a fabulous piece of research! Well done.FWIW, Baedeker, a widely known publishing house for travel guides founded 200 years ago - a kind of pioneer and authority in their field, published a guide for Spain in English in 1898. It describes the Cathedral of Santiago at the time:
View attachment 166810
We have this idea that pilgrims climbed the great stairs on Obradoiro square and entered the cathedral through the Portico de la Gloria for centuries and centuries, and now we are denied this. Has it really been like this? You be the judge ...
That "opened only for the passage of the very highest secular and ecclesiastical dignitaries" sounds completely wrong.FWIW, Baedeker, a widely known publishing house for travel guides founded 200 years ago - a kind of pioneer and authority in their field, published a guide for Spain in English in 1898. It describes the Cathedral of Santiago at the time:
View attachment 166810
We have this idea that pilgrims climbed the great stairs on Obradoiro square and entered the cathedral through the Portico de la Gloria for centuries and centuries, and now we are denied this. Has it really been like this? You be the judge ...
www.cope.es
I got such a visit on last November, and no, the entry is not through the main door, but through the church, after the museum visit.
.
The implication I got was that the entrance from the Plaza de Obradoiro had been closed except in unusual circumstances since before 1898, but I acknowledge I certainly may have been reading into the post something that wasn't intended.
Do you have a link to that virtual tour please?I see that we are back from the More Distant Past and again in the Present and in the More Recent Past. This turns out to be unexpected fun and has helped me to solve one of the enduring puzzles of my Camino life: How we got from the Obradoiro square to the Portico de la Gloria and back again.
I vividly remember that we entered from outside through the small door to the left of the large staircase where we had been instructed to pick up our pre-ordered tickets. We were asked to hang around in a small space with some sculptures before we were called to follow our group up and down and left and right to finally end up in front of the Portico. And the same way back again. I had lost all sense of orientation plus it was dark.
Thanks to the great Visual Tour web app I've figured it out now: We entered the Cathedral through a small internal door - yet another access point of this large Cathedral complex!
I'll just post the screenshots. The large dot marks where we came from. The crosses mark the doors that are permanently closed to the public but would lead to and from the Obradoiro square (i.e. one large double door in the middle and a smaller door on each side. The two screenshots show the same pathway, just from different perspectives, the first one looking toward the direction of the Obradoiro square and the second one in front of the Portico with the Obradoiro square at your back.
I feel so relieved ...
For those who visited in recent years - has this been nagging you too?
View attachment 166884
I have no intention of presenting evidence to the contrary
but since I've just done a bit of rereading: I'd recommend to anyone interested in this topic to read one of the few reports from the 17th century where pilgrims such as Laffi or Manier and another one whose name I've already forgotten again describe their arrival at the Cathedral of Santiago in greater detail. Then readers can decide on their own whether it challenges their perceptions or not.
I read but don't post on FB. I've done a bit of rereading recently and also scrolled through some relevant posts on FB. I am not alone: There is a small number of apparently Spanish participants who also know that the Obradoiro portal was not an established "traditional" entrance for pilgrims during the last 800 years. I feel less isolated now.
I found a photo of the postcard from the 1920s that is mentioned in the document linked above. It was taken by a professional photographer and became part of a series of postcards or souvenirs promoting tourism to Galicia. This photo of a man in pilgrim outfit is usually reproduced online or in books without the postcard frame. It was part of the start of popularising the ritual. The scene in the movie The Way would then mark the end of this phase.
The article says
It was where the pilgrim first saw the cathedral. He then went down through the archway to the Obradoiro and walked up the steps before entering the cathedral. Though he cannot now remember whether he entered through the central doors or one of the side entrances flanking them. He certainly remembers placing his hand on the Tree of Jesse and nodding to Maestro Matteo before walking down the nave towards the high altar.
Coincidentally, I was looking through a Spanish-produced work on the History of the Camino the other day in one of the Albergues, and I found therein a detail that the "Limina" that are mentioned in the Compostela document refer to the territory that was granted to the Cathedral as its sovereign domain, I think about 3Km², so that this is very likely to be a map of those Limina.
As I said above, I have very clear memories of entering the cathedral a year earlier (1989) through the Portico of Glory and placing my hand on the Tree of Jesse. But my memories aren't always perfect, and after reading the above, I went to pull down my copy of Valiña's guide (El Camino de Santiago: Guia del Peregrino, published by Everest) and noticed that the map of the last stage, instead of sending the pilgrim down through the Arco Obispo tunnel into the Plaza de Obradoiro as is done today, directs them through the Via Sacra to the Puerta Santa (which I expect would have been closed in 1989). I don't think I was following the map at that point, though. Just where I was directed by locals.
David, I hardly think you would forget such a "momentous moment" as greeting Santiago at the top of the steps (espec after walking 800 kms) and placing your fingers in the holes as Sarah did in the movie in 2010 (or so).
FWIW indeed - it is worth a lot to me as I never realized (but should have known) Santiago de Compostela had city walls in olden times.I've been looking at one or two Romanesque churches recently with their south portal as their main entry point and their main architectural portal and was reminded of this thread.
I also happened to stumble across a diary of someone walking to Santiago in 1990 and describing his arrival as follows: "I was soon following Padre Valiña's city plan to the Azabacheria door of the cathedral." It seems that this is where this peregrino entered the Cathedral - from what I can read, it did not seem to occur to him to first go to the Obradoiro square. In any case, I am still interested in learning more about the actual function of the Portico de la Gloria in the Middle Ages so if anyone knows some good pointers I'd be happy to know.
I also very vaguely remember having read that the Obradoiro square was a park or a garden before urban remodelling at one time or another. I happened to have a closer look at an older map from 1595: The medieval town walls and town gates are shown as they had not yet been razed. I've marked the town gate and entry point for pilgrims from France and from elsewhere in Continental Europe as well as the Cathedral's Azabacheria portal (north portal) and the Quintana square. The Cathedral's west portal is facing the town wall which is very close.
In 1595 the Raxoi Palace (opposite the Cathedral's west facade) had not yet been built; it was finished in 1766. As far as I can decipher the writing on the ancient map, the Obradoiro square is called Plaza del Hospital Real (which was finished in 1511).
As always: FWIW.
View attachment 175486
I am not sure that I would share this assessment about the location and position of the St James church within the medieval town walls of Rothenburg
. And while it sometimes looks as if every medieval church dedicated to St James was but a staging post for pilgrims on the way to Santiago the reality was different. Some forty years ago, nobody even mentioned a connection between Rothenburg and Santiago de Compostela, and the hypermodern pilgrim statue outside of this beautiful Gothic church - a Protestant (ev.-luth.) church since 1544 - was probably commissioned and put in place in the 21st century in the wake of the modern pilgrimage boom during the last two decades.. Here's what it looks like:
Thanks for all that Kath. I am a novice on churches and did not even know Jacob was James. But by "position" I was observing the WALLS in your map from olden times and thinking of walking 4 km around the walls of Rothenburg in 1977 and observing "a church" (without more) as I passed down the west side. Here is the comparison.I am not sure that I would share this assessment about the location and position of the St James church within the medieval town walls of Rothenburg
The Rothenburg church itself was an attraction for pilgrims in the Middle Ages but not because of a relic of St James: It was a Eucharist miracle, hence their amazing Holy Blood altar. Unlike in medieval Santiago, there was no enterprising and ambitious archbishop around in medieval Rothenburg: from 1400 onwards it was the burghers of the town who had the financial and political power to sponsor and supervise the building works for their church.
Since this thread is about portals and entry points: The Gothic St James church of Rothenburg does not have grandiose portals. In particular, it does not even have a portal on the west facade. People entered from elsewhere, i.e. from the south
View attachment 175553
Well, taking all pilgrimage routes as they are traditionally, not only the "purist" starting point of a Camino would be the altar of your own parish church, but a foot pilgrimage should in the same way be parish to parish to parish until the altar of your destination Sanctuary, so that potentially it could be said that the Camino passes through at least all of the Catholic parish churches along a pilgrim's route to Santiago.
Lots. I guess you mean "outside of Spain"?
How could I forget: St. James' Church, Antwerp - or Sint Jacobskerk in Antwerp. It is yet another Gothic church with a "Camino running right through it". My mind is probably blocking my memories because it has really a lot of Baroque inside that was added when the Middle Ages had ended ...
Your heroes. Please don't speak for all of us.
Sarah never existed.
@Camo, I forgot to mention this earlier: When you look at the satellite image of Rothenburg you can see the contours of the older town wall, it looks more like a circle or oval or rectangle. All that is left is a tower or two and the streets reflect where the town wall once ran along. This older town wall was erected in 1172 - during the same time period the Cathedral of Santiago was built; the Cathedral was consecrated in 1211 and its most famous book was written around 1140-1160. Two hundred years later the town of Rothenburg had grown so much that these walls were razed and a new town wall was built to include more houses and more people. This is what people come to admire today.
And inside Spain too. My first Camino was on what is now generally known as the Camino Frances but at the time it was simply known as "the Camino de Santiago" as there was just the one officially recognised route. Now the pilgrim office online registration menu offers you a choice of 19 named routes plus "Otros Caminos". Even the Camino Frances is to a large extent an artificial product of the 1980s which attempts to link places with well-known and demonstrable historical links to pilgrimage by paths which are safe and appropriate for modern pedestrians. The first yellow arrows are now only 40 years old. It may be a little disappointing to probe too deeply into the historical roots of many of the "Caminos" in Spain and beyond if "authenticity" is important to you. I'm inclined to agree with @JabbaPapa that a Camino is any route that takes a pilgrim from their home to Santiago. The signposted routes are certainly a convenience and an attraction but not an essential part of the definition of a pilgrimage.
What about Pamplona ?
The walled town of Ávila is on the Camino de Levante. It has a very nice set of walls which are open to walk along for a fair length, if not completely around the old town. According to Wikipedia, the walls around Ávila are the most complete and best preserved in the country.
But I was talking to going through a church like in this case where the Camino track passes right through the church from north to south via a tunnel through the church with 2 doors in the tunnel.
Thanks Kath, your "inside" info as always is invaluable
Yes and I was reading on Wiki
The new Bishop did say on the occasion of his installation that he wanted to increase the number of entrances, and I am glad to hear that this will be so.
But the decision was unfortunately 2 weeks too late to make it (as a tab) onto my "video circumnavigation of the Cathedral" with entry points as per Cathedral website.
There has been a recent change in the management of the flow of people through and in the Cathedral of Santiago. Currently, those who wish to use the channel for the crypt and for hugging the statue enter through a portal that is usually closed to the general public, namely the Puerta de Abades (Abbots Door).
By "same" are you talking about this recently opened EAST portal or the North portal which is marked at the website as "Entry sepulchre and embrace of Apostle" or perhaps the South entry. marked as "Entry Basilica and Masses"?
I’m referring to the porta de praterias.
Quintana | Praterías |
Thanks for that but OMG these people walk 800 km and then have to wait in a queue in the hot sun? - makes me glad I am relegated to being a virtual pilgrim
