- Time of past OR future Camino
- Past: a few. Last: Gudbrandsdalsleden. Next: TBC
The platform is innocent. The people who use it: clearly not all of them are.
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The platform is innocent. The people who use it: clearly not all of them are.So they defend the platform as innocent, because that's their only experience of it.
I cannot think of anywhere, other than perhaps when you might be gaslighting someone, that you get the privilige of directing where a conversation goes. Sure, you might leave it, but what has been said is in front of the other participants, warts and all.Yes - but when you started the thread - should be your choice to delete the thread if you feel it isn't going the way you intended.
Agree that you would leave me in the dust...Only 16km per day? We will have to disagree on that one. I'd be bored rigid with all those hours left to fill. Each to their own!
And me!Agree that you would leave me in the dust...
Yes, there is too much suffering in the world, but I have never suffered on the Camino, not even while walking into and out of León, or any of the industrial parts. I choose to appreciate all the different landscapes that I walk through instead of choosing to suffer. There's enough real suffering in the world and there's no need for me to add to it.An understandable perspective; however, a perfect Camino would be its death knoll. Preferable is a Camino that reflects life as it realistically is--full of suffering.
You sir, are my brother from a different mother....I think due to various books and advertising there are more and more people who have questions about shipping their packs, sleeping only in hotels, and skipping some Camino sections. It isn't a crime. I just happen like carrying my own pack, staying in albergues, and walking the whole way so it seems odd at times that someone would not have my same viewpoint.
In answer, my perfect Camino would be staying where we prepared a communal meal together each night, had a Pilgrim Mass with blessing, and only walked 10 miles (16 km) each day. May it be so!
The mesetta is boring some say, I love it, The paramo before Villar de Mazarife is another. I love it all with one exception. As some will already know, the walk out of Leon even though I have walked it, is not my cup of tea. In fact people will be horrified but I don't like Leon. Maybe because its one city I was always on my own with no walking companion. Love Burgos. So the perfect camino to me is the Frances as it is. Sure if there were no hard or boring bits and everything was hunky dorey and easy to do it wouldn't be worth doing. We could just fly to Santiago, visit the tomb and pray then fly home again.OK, so, well here we go. I’ve been seeing, and sometimes responding to, lots (it seems) of posts about, essentially, which bits of Camino to avoid. Urban bits; steep bits; roadside bits; bits where the cafés don’t get good reviews; industrial bits ( though apparently that bit on the Invierno where the Romans totally trashed an entire mountain is cool); bits where there might be more pilgrims than is desirable; bits where holiday makers soak up to much of the accommodation….
So, I think it’s time we put our heads together and helped Tourismo Galicia, and everyone who needs one, construct the perfect Camino. Not too long, attractive landscapes, comfortable accommodations supplying exquisite food and, essentially, no unpleasant bits. No grumpy Tinkers; no tired Hospitaler@; no chewy Lomo with soggy chips…
I’m not sure I have a question but if I did it would probably be “Que?”.
I say thank you, for the gesture in responding.Well. That sparked some interesting debate. It never was, never is, my intention to slight or denigrate any individual who comes to this forum. It was, and always, is my intention to highlight issues that I feel are pertinent to the Camino and all its ways. And to challenge in such ways as I can that which I perceive as the increasing disneyvacation (nasty little portmanteau) of Camino. The thousand roads to Santiago offer myriad opportunity for adventure and learning (and lomo) and, surely, for a little challenge and discomfort. None of which need be avoided.
And now for the prizegiving:View attachment 144181
I assume this is partly in response to my post about taking a taxi out of Porto -
Which is all subjective- after all one pilgrims mesita heaven is another’s boring hell.
I’m not taking it personal. I just find it so rude that people make post like this or make comments on peoples post when they just have questions. The Camino is a new thing for a lot of people and questions are valid yet some people on this forum judge for not doing things the way they did it.
This might be the #1 improvement I'd like to see. I do not see any downside in eliminating bedbugs from the camino.No bed bugs, I'd be happy to share a room with all the snorers, 100-times-per-night-to-the-toilet-pilgrims and with the early risers that switch on the full light at 4am, if just there are no bed bugs for sure.
It would also be a lot less work for Phil and me, when we are examining with a headlamp and steaming the cracks and crevices with an industrial steamer trying to make sure they haven't taken up residence!This might be the #1 improvement I'd like to see. I do not see any downside in eliminating bedbugs from the camino.
Is this a service you give to every pilgrim on arrival?It would also be a lot less work for Phil and me, when we are examining with a headlamp and steaming the cracks and crevices with an industrial steamer trying to make sure they haven't taken up residence!
With respect to the cartoon, as an an accordion player, I resemble that remark!Well. That sparked some interesting debate. It never was, never is, my intention to slight or denigrate any individual who comes to this forum. It was, and always, is my intention to highlight issues that I feel are pertinent to the Camino and all its ways. And to challenge in such ways as I can that which I perceive as the increasing disneyvacation (nasty little portmanteau) of Camino. The thousand roads to Santiago offer myriad opportunity for adventure and learning (and lomo) and, surely, for a little challenge and discomfort. None of which need be avoided.
And now for the prizegiving:View attachment 144181
Ah, but no ups and downs, no grumps n gripes, no 'crowds', no having to walk out of one's way n more 'inconveniences' along with the beauty, kindness, friendliness and generosity of it all. Would this be a real Camino? Would this be a true Pilgrimage?OK, so, well here we go. I’ve been seeing, and sometimes responding to, lots (it seems) of posts about, essentially, which bits of Camino to avoid. Urban bits; steep bits; roadside bits; bits where the cafés don’t get good reviews; industrial bits ( though apparently that bit on the Invierno where the Romans totally trashed an entire mountain is cool); bits where there might be more pilgrims than is desirable; bits where holiday makers soak up to much of the accommodation….
So, I think it’s time we put our heads together and helped Tourismo Galicia, and everyone who needs one, construct the perfect Camino. Not too long, attractive landscapes, comfortable accommodations supplying exquisite food and, essentially, no unpleasant bits. No grumpy Tinkers; no tired Hospitaler@; no chewy Lomo with soggy chips…
I’m not sure I have a question but if I did it would probably be “Que?”.
I think due to various books and advertising there are more and more people who have questions about shipping their packs, sleeping only in hotels, and skipping some Camino sections. It isn't a crime. I just happen like carrying my own pack, staying in albergues, and walking the whole way so it seems odd at times that someone would not have my same viewpoint.
In answer, my perfect Camino would be staying where we prepared a communal meal together each night, had a Pilgrim Mass with blessing, and only walked 10 miles (16 km) each day. May it be so!
The perfect camino would definitely have truck stops. This is where much better food is to be had than the cheap stuff they serve in pilfrims' ghettos.essentially a truck stop
Have you thought that your assumption may be wrong(?) Each person does his/her own Camino.I assume this is partly in response to my post about taking a taxi out of Porto - keep in mind that not all pilgrims have the luxury of time. When on a restricted schedule maybe it makes sense to skip a section? You don’t have to be rude about it. I swear people who wax on about the spirit of the Camino end up being the most judgmental
What you have written is also a judgement. You are judging that Tinker was passing a negative thought when it could have been just humor as he often does and judging and assuming that he was thinking of your post when there have been hundreds of not thousands of posts asking where and when and what to skip. We all have our own opinions and humor. And remember why the great Felix Unger said about assuming!!!!’I assume this is partly in response to my post about taking a taxi out of Porto - keep in mind that not all pilgrims have the luxury of time. When on a restricted schedule maybe it makes sense to skip a section? You don’t have to be rude about it. I swear people who wax on about the spirit of the Camino end up being the most judgmental
Oh, my goodness – the truckies big breakie is legendary in Australia; with a bottomless cup, keeps you going all day.The perfect camino would definitely have truck stops. This is where much better food is to be had than the cheap stuff they serve in pilfrims' ghettos.
Is this a service you give to every pilgrim on arrival?
OK, getting away from the mildly (?) controversial, I think your post has touched on an issue which actually does really concern me. Those of us who plan our camino, a process which is usually needed to connect with long distance return flights, immediately run into a problem which is perhaps unique to the Camino Francés from St Jean because of the sheer numbers of pilgrims. I’m in the process of doing that right now. Unusually, I have more time available on this particular camino.OK, so, well here we go. I’ve been seeing, and sometimes responding to, lots (it seems) of posts about, essentially, which bits of Camino to avoid. Urban bits; steep bits; roadside bits; bits where the cafés don’t get good reviews; industrial bits...
Gascony. Garrulous, loathsome, lascivious, poorly-dressed, greedy drunks. Skilled warriors, good hospitality to the poor. All drink from one cup, then sprawl out together on rotten straw. White bread and the best and reddest wine. Forests, streams, meadows and healthy fountains.
The Basque Country. Forest savages whose hard faces and strange language strike terror into the heart. They come at pilgrims with weapons, demand an exorbitant fee and beat those who refuse.
I beg to differ: Racial and ethnic stereotyping and associated complaints such as the one in the quotes from the nowadays widely known medieval “”pilgrim”” guide were good manners and “in” in the 11th and 12th century. We don’t do this anymore. We stereotype and complain about our fellow pilgrims. And if we mention their nationality a moderator will come to the rescue and edit it out …Complaints are both universal and timeless such as:
Whenever I get to one of those urban areas or other distasteful settings, I just pull the curtains on my sedan chair and have my bearers double step until we're through it. And I assume everyone takes along their own caterer. How else could one survive it??
No one else has said it, which surprised me - "on the perfect camino there would be no bikes" - does that mean us bicigrinos are absolved? If so so gracias a todos. Richard el ciclista flaco.
does that mean us bicigrinos are absolved? If so so gracias a todos. Richard el ciclista flaco.
Me too. When I've had bad interacions with people on bikes, it's usually been local mountain bike clubs out for a training ride..love the bicigrinos. They always give me a “hola Buen Camino!” as they breeze past me.
Hi-ditto on Saria to Santiago...But I loved the Astorga to Sarria section...loved it.
The Best is in the eye of the beholder. No matter what route we take, how much we carry and where we sleep, we will all have our very own best and worst bits.The concern, however expressed, is that those who seek only the bits they think best will miss the best.
An excellent question.How can we, as active forum members, handle this?
I think you nailed pretty well here with your full post. As Frank Zappa would have put it, the last bit is the crux of the biscuit.How can we, as active forum members, handle this?
Are we obliged to answer questions without challenging the assumptions? Should we withhold our opinions in order not to hurt delicate feelings? Should we ignore questions that we could answer but our answers will lead to accusations of being judgemental and elitist?
Thank you for the excellent summary. It reminded me of another of your posts that I had bookmarked with the note "school room analogy" since it seemed such a perfect description of the forum. Here it is (and be sure to "click to expand" for the last paragraph)...Those of us that hang around here and offer advice each make their own choice.
This forum isn't a court room where truth is discerned by burning away the irrelevant in the crucible of debate and evidence. It's a one room school house. Here the younger students are puzzling at how to open the plastic box of crayons their mother thoughtfully stuffed in their pack, or discern the purpose of that plastic "V" shaped thingie with a hinge and a sharp point on one side and a pencil on the other. Meanwhile, the seniors are working through the quantum mechanics-like puzzle of finding the ideal routing to Zaragoza considering a starting point in Cincinnati, coupled with the fiesta on that day and the threat of a strike by Renfe.
It's human nature for the tall students to vote for basketball for today's gym class, while their smaller peers are plotting how to clandestinely puncture the ball. Everyone has to come to class, but not everyone comes similarly equipped, or is there with the same purpose.
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