Dull, boring, urban and sketchy (sketchy?)

[Tincatinker]

OK, so, well here we go. I’ve been seeing, and sometimes responding to, lots (it seems) of posts about, essentially, which bits of Camino to avoid. Urban bits; steep bits; roadside bits; bits where the cafés don’t get good reviews; industrial bits ( though apparently that bit on the Invierno where the Romans totally trashed an entire mountain is cool); bits where there might be more pilgrims than is desirable; bits where holiday makers soak up to much of the accommodation….

So, I think it’s time we put our heads together and helped Tourismo Galicia, and everyone who needs one, construct the perfect Camino. Not too long, attractive landscapes, comfortable accommodations supplying exquisite food and, essentially, no unpleasant bits. No grumpy Tinkers; no tired Hospitaler@; no chewy Lomo with soggy chips…

I’m not sure I have a question but if I did it would probably be “Que?”.

 

[SabsP]

Don't forget the locals who should stop having fun or enjoying a local fiesta after ten pm.Afterall we pilgrims are " entitled" to a decent night of sleep...

 

[lovelyshell]

I assume this is partly in response to my post about taking a taxi out of Porto - keep in mind that not all pilgrims have the luxury of time. When on a restricted schedule maybe it makes sense to skip a section? You don’t have to be rude about it. I swear people who wax on about the spirit of the Camino end up being the most judgmental

 

[irishrock]

great post. Camino time is good time. I've heard people complain about the first day...it was my favorite day. The hike from Najera to Logrono...I get it, but if you skip it, you miss the great lady right before Logrono who has a great dog. San Juan de Ortego to Burgos...that hike into Burgos is rough, but right at the foot of descent is a wonderful place for breakfast. My second favorite day was Astorga to el Acebo because of Foncebadon. I hate to say it, but "toughen up"...you're on the Camino hopefully replenishing your soul, your mental outlook, and your physical being.

I wish I was on the Camino right now.

 

[Former member 92300]

Don't forget the locals who should stop having fun or enjoying a local fiesta after ten pm.Afterall we pilgrims are " entitled" to a decent night of sleep...

How dare they eat late and party all night?

Ah… the memories of getting up and walking through a city at 6am - watching the last of the locals stagger their way towards home.

I wouldn’t trade one minute of the Camino - even the Sarria to Santiago section which is my least favorite section so far.

 

[Vacajoe]

Oh, I clicked on this because I thought it was for me since the thread title is my exact description on most dating sites…

 

[henrythedog]

Perception is partially framed by what one is accustomed to. I live in what (for northern England) might be considered the middle of nowhere. It’s an idyllic landscape and a tiny community - but with bugger-all in the way of infrastructure.

Perhaps that’s why I like the commercial outskirts of the big towns? It’s different for me.

I rail against the concept of editing a Camino, and I don’t care how little time anyone has. It’s a journey from A to B; and if you can’t do it in the time available: tough. Start a bit closer to B. Don’t do the highlights and pretend.

 

[henrythedog]

Oh, I clicked on this because I thought it was for me since the thread title is my exact description on most dating sites…

Swipe left Joe; there’ll be another along in a moment.

 

[Former member 92300]

I assume this is partly in response to my post about taking a taxi out of Porto - keep in mind that not all pilgrims have the luxury of time. When on a restricted schedule maybe it makes sense to skip a section? You don’t have to be rude about it. I swear people who wax on about the spirit of the Camino end up being the most judgmental

I wouldn’t take it personally. There are always posts that complain and want to skip parts or where people are acting entitled. Nothing wrong with doing the Camino your way for whatever reason.

 

[Bradypus]

I rail against the concept of editing a Camino, and I don’t care how little time anyone has. It’s a journey from A to B; and if you can’t do it in the time available: tough. Start a bit closer to B. Don’t do the highlights and pretend.

"Begin at the beginning, the King said, very gravely, and go on till you come to the end: then stop."

I agree completely. The 100km rule is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't care less if someone starts 1000km or 10km from the cathedral. But cherry-picking sections of a route to walk doesn't sit well with my understanding of pilgrimage.

 

[Kgaynor]

I wouldn’t take it personally. There are always posts that complain and want to skip parts or where people are acting entitled. Nothing wrong with doing the Camino your way for whatever reason.

I second that. I am walking for my reasons and no one else’s. How & why I walk is no one’s business.

I leave in 25 days & I am walking alone. If shaming people for doing what is best for them is part of the experience, then I’ll just keep to myself.

 

[Tincatinker]

I assume this is partly in response to my post about taking a taxi out of Porto - keep in mind that not all pilgrims have the luxury of time. When on a restricted schedule maybe it makes sense to skip a section? You don’t have to be rude about it. I swear people who wax on about the spirit of the Camino end up being the most judgmental

Nope, nothing personal. If you think it is about you then I regret that imposition. I have no interest in any “spirit” of the Camino. The Camino just is. No soul, no carnal existence. Just a thousand roads spider-webbing to the shrine of one who may perhaps have touched the divine.

My rant, my row, my non-question, is how can there be best bits, not so best bits, avoidable bits, of a perfectly straightforward walk from wherever you start walking to wherever you’re walking to

 

[lovelyshell]

I wouldn’t take it personally. There are always posts that complain and want to skip parts or where people are acting entitled. Nothing wrong with doing the Camino your way for whatever reason.

I’m not taking it personal. I just find it so rude that people make post like this or make comments on peoples post when they just have questions. The Camino is a new thing for a lot of people and questions are valid yet some people on this forum judge for not doing things the way they did it.

 

[SabsP]

Exactly. These people who shame others have been doing it for years. It why I left this forum when planning my 2016 Camino. Those are also the same people who say embrace the spirit of the Camino yet they are totally jerks on this forum.

That is just it!
I do not think there is a "spirit" on the Camino.
We might walk for spiritual , religious or sportive reasons but the Camino itself does not have a soul.
The Camino is like Life itself : the Good, the Bad & the Ugly.

Like I wrote earlier on another thread : for me it was a simple beauty having a coffee at a cafeteria of a petrolstation in the middle of nowhere on the Inglés. More than a coffee at the most picturesque sunny plaza in Santiago.

 

[irishrock]

How dare they eat late and party all night?

Ah… the memories of getting up and walking through a city at 6am - watching the last of the locals stagger their way towards home.

I wouldn’t trade one minute of the Camino - even the Sarria to Santiago section which is my least favorite section so far.

ditto on Saria to Santiago...But I loved the Astorga to Sarria section...loved it.

 

[J Willhaus]

I think due to various books and advertising there are more and more people who have questions about shipping their packs, sleeping only in hotels, and skipping some Camino sections. It isn't a crime. I just happen like carrying my own pack, staying in albergues, and walking the whole way so it seems odd at times that someone would not have my same viewpoint.

In answer, my perfect Camino would be staying where we prepared a communal meal together each night, had a Pilgrim Mass with blessing, and only walked 10 miles (16 km) each day. May it be so!

 

[Former member 92300]

In answer, my perfect Camino would be staying where we prepared a communal meal together each night, had a Pilgrim Mass with blessing, and only walked 10 miles (16 km) each day. May it be so!

Hmm... I guess mine is kind of similar in thought to yours. I think for me, my perfect Camino will be walking longer days (I love 30-35km days with some 20-25km days mixed in), walking by myself most of the day (love being totally alone) - but the ability to find someone to walk with for short periods of time when I am in the mood, and then I love the idea of a communal meal together most nights.

In terms of walking environment - I love it all. The only thing I don't love is crowds. But even the most boring or ugly segments are part of the journey for me. Although I could do without the graffiti. Art - fine. Graffiti - I can't stand it. Even the "inspirational Camino graffiti". I was glad there wasn't so much on the the Norte/Primitivo - and the graffiti that was there at least gave insight to the local politics.

 

[Mary Doll]

I walked the Frances in 2020 from SJPDP and I never considered missing a section. It was important to me to walk every step of the way even the less attractive boring bits. I did have the luxury of time as I had just retired and had no return flight booked. I’m walking the Portuguese central route in May and starting in Porto as I’m now back working part-time so have limited time. I know the walk out of Porto is considered boring but I think you have to take the bad with the good. I’d rather do a continuous walk from A to B than skip sections. That’s just my thoughts.

 

[MainelyStina]

So, I don't have a dog in this fight (conversation?), and I approach this as a total newbie, very much looking forward to my first Camino (141 days - but who's counting??) There are so many things that can feel really intimidating when planning this journey. Do I have the time I need to dedicate to this endeavor? Do I have the financial resources? Can I realistically take time out of my "real" life? (Turns out, this is my real life...) Why is anyone crazy enough to do this? And then there are the myriad questions from friends and loved ones when you finally say out loud that you're going to do this thing. They may fear for your safety, they'll certainly miss you, maybe they don't want you to go for any number of their own reasons. But, with over three years of planning under my belt at this point, I do have a few thoughts... (And I make a living talking and expressing thoughts and ideas, so...)

It's so easy, while planning, to get caught up in other people's struggles and impressions. Like, am I strong enough, fit enough to take the Napoleon Route over the Pyrenees? Can I really carry this crazy backpack all the way across a country? Will the pain I'm experiencing in my foot today derail my journey in 4-something months? I'm such a light sleeper, can I tolerate the snoring in albergues? What about the food - will I find what I like and need? There are so many things to worry about, and be afraid of, or be sidelined by. But the thing that I look forward to is, well, all of it. I've learned a few things about myself over the years - struggle has a tendency to make me stronger - mentally and physically. The so-called "ugly" bits make me appreciate the beautiful parts. The rude people, and the hordes of teenagers (I deal with a lot of them at work), make me appreciate the quiet kindness of someone else. And when it's all said and done, no matter where I've begun, or where I've ended, knowing that I completed my journey has often been the most rewarding part.

I've been fortunate enough to sail across oceans, I've traveled all over the world, I nearly died in a third-world country, and I've absolutely lived my best life in some of the most amazing places in the world. And all of that has made me exactly who I am. It's all a part of the story we write about ourselves. A friend of mine always reminds me: bloom where you are. It's easy to look over the fence and say: it looks better over there. But finding the beauty in struggle, and pain, and darkness, just makes the brightness of light all that much better.

Over the last few years, I've watched way too many Camino vlogs, and what I've discerned from all of those is that everyone's journey is different. One person may despise the Meseta, and for another it might be their favorite part. Some folks thrive in the chaos of crowds, and some can only tolerate solitude. In the end, my plan is to try to take the good with the bad, if there is such a thing. Take the hard with the easy. Take it all to the best of my ability. And bloom exactly where I am.

Here's to the perfect Camino - whatever that means...

Stina

 

[Dani7]

It's so easy, while planning, to get caught up in other people's struggles and impressions. Like, am I strong enough, fit enough to take the Napoleon Route over the Pyrenees? Can I really carry this crazy backpack all the way across a country? Will the pain I'm experiencing in my foot today derail my journey in 4-something months? I'm such a light sleeper, can I tolerate the snoring in albergues? What about the food - will I find what I like and need? There are so many things to worry about, and be afraid of, or be sidelined by. But the thing that I look forward to is, well, all of it. I've learned a few things about myself over the years - struggle has a tendency to make me stronger - mentally and physically. The so-called "ugly" bits make me appreciate the beautiful parts. The rude people, and the hordes of teenagers (I deal with a lot of them at work), make me appreciate the quiet kindness of someone else. And when it's all said and done, no matter where I've begun, or where I've ended, knowing that I completed my journey has often been the most rewarding part.

I've been fortunate enough to sail across oceans, I've traveled all over the world, I nearly died in a third-world country, and I've absolutely lived my best life in some of the most amazing places in the world. And all of that has made me exactly who I am. It's all a part of the story we write about ourselves. A friend of mine always reminds me: bloom where you are. It's easy to look over the fence and say: it looks better over there. But finding the beauty in struggle, and pain, and darkness, just makes the brightness of light all that much better.

Over the last few years, I've watched way too many Camino vlogs, and what I've discerned from all of those is that everyone's journey is different. One person may despise the Meseta, and for another it might be their favorite part. Some folks thrive in the chaos of crowds, and some can only tolerate solitude. In the end, my plan is to try to take the good with the bad, if there is such a thing. Take the hard with the easy. Take it all to the best of my ability. And bloom exactly where I am.

Here's to the perfect Camino - whatever that means...

Stina

WoW!!!! You managed to express exactly how I feel about my first upcoming Camino. And so eloquently. Thank you

However someone chooses to take this journey is of no concern to me.

I’ll focus on blooming and not worrying.

Really really good post

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I enjoy all aspects of the Camino; the good, the bad, the ugly, the albergues, communal meals, the casa rurals, hostals, hotels, guest houses, and restaurant meals. It's all part of the experience of walking the Caminos; all are fond memories to me. I've always been glad to "be" in the moment and can't wait to once again fly to Madrid on April 24th!

 

[dbier]

The discussion, to me, looks like this.

There is a difference, mentally, between the view of someone looking for only "the best bits" of any journey, and the view of someone who journeys looking for something ...even if they have no name for the Thing, or think they're just looking for themselves.

The first is quite likely to be disappointed, and not be changed by the experience. The second is likely to find something that changes them.

The concern, however expressed, is that those who seek only the bits they think best will miss the best.

 

[J Willhaus]

I will say that the Way is not as much a problem as other pilgrims. I admit to walking on if I see someone who rubs me the wrong way is at an albergue where I wanted to stop.

 

[Bradypus]

I will say that the Way is not as much a problem as other pilgrims. I admit to walking on if I see someone who rubs me the wrong way is at an albergue where I wanted to stop.

I've occasionally added 10+km to my day just to be sure of leaving someone well behind me.

 

[lovelyshell]

I've occasionally added 10+km to my day just to be sure of leaving someone well behind me.

Haha I’m guilty of this too!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Not sure what to think about some of these replies. On my first Camino, the Frances, I skipped the meseta because I preferred to bus to Muxia from Santiago and walk on to Finesterre at a slower pace in vacation mode at the end; I loved my decision.
On my second Camino Frances I walked every step of the way, all 799 kilometers and I loved that as well and it was very satisfying.
On other Caminos I have occasionally taken a short bus ride for "whatever" reason, and was glad I made those decisions. Who is to say what "bits and pieces" are unacceptable; we are all different, and there should be no condemnation. I carry m own pack, but am happy for those who decide to send their pack ahead...it all is good.

 

[JudyWanaWander]

I assume this is partly in response to my post about taking a taxi out of Porto - keep in mind that not all pilgrims have the luxury of time. When on a restricted schedule maybe it makes sense to skip a section? You don’t have to be rude about it. I swear people who wax on about the spirit of the Camino end up being the most judgmental

I've seen that happen

 

[Bradypus]

Who is to say what "bits and pieces" are unacceptable; we are all different, and there should be no condemnation.

I disagree. There are very few set rules for walking a Camino other than those for claiming a Compostela.Those who decide to cherry-pick their route are of course entitled to do so. But those who see pilgrimage in a different light should also be allowed to state their own opinions openly. If someone has considered their own choices and believe their decision is valid then why not defend that position by reasoned argument rather than simply dismissing contrary views as "judgemental"?

 

[Former member 92300]

I will say that the Way is not as much a problem as other pilgrims. I admit to walking on if I see someone who rubs me the wrong way is at an albergue where I wanted to stop.

This is part of the beauty of staying flexible. You can hang back with new found friends - or you can speed up/slow down to avoid those you want to avoid! We have to put up with plenty of unpleasant people at home - don't want to put up with it on a Camino. No need to be confrontational or anything - just adjust your speed/distance to move away from t hem.

The concern, however expressed, is that those who seek only the bits they think best will miss the best.

Yes! Of course - the person who seeks the best bits and misses what others think may be "the best" - usually doesn't know what they are missing.

As others stated - I would rather go from point A to point B than to hop around and skip sections. Perhaps that means starting in SJPDP and ending in Burgos. Perhaps that means starting in Sarria and ending in Santiago. Personally - I prefer to do a continuous distance and not hop on a bus/taxi/train if it can be avoided. I admit - walking into Burgos the first time I was kind of kicking myself as I watched a couple of pilgrims board a bus to head into town - when I was totally exhausted and ready to end my day. I resisted the urge and was twice as proud of my accomplishment when I did arrive! Anyhow - I am practicing the point A to point B pilgrimage this summer. I don't have enough time off to hike from Canterbury to Rome, so I will stop in Aosta and resume next summer. I will be walking as far as I can in the time allowed, and won't miss any segment of the hike. The good, the bad, or the ugly.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

But those who see pilgrimage in a different light should also be allowed to state their own opinions openly. If someone has considered their own choices and believe their decision is valid then why not defend that position by reasoned argument

Of course they should, and I agree to a point, but our personal opinions do not have to make others who do it differently feel inferior or like they are doing anything wrong. See posts #3, 11, 13, 14. Possibly they have overreacted, but we should ask ourselves why are they feeling compelled to feel that way. It seems there should be no need to defend a position or argue; it's all subjective.

 

[dougfitz]

I assume this is partly in response to my post about taking a taxi out of Porto - keep in mind that not all pilgrims have the luxury of time. When on a restricted schedule maybe it makes sense to skip a section? You don’t have to be rude about it. I swear people who wax on about the spirit of the Camino end up being the most judgmental

You might have been the latest to ask this question, but you are far from the first to raise the issue. It has been going on for as long as I have been a member. And if you look around recent posts, you will find there are still those about where to find the best meals, coffee, bag transport or a myriad other subjects that I generally avoid. Why? Because I didn't walk any of my pilgrimages looking for these things, and have no practical advice to offer someone who might be asking these things. I do have a view on most of them, both as a pilgrim and erstwhile hospitalero.

Sometimes I think that sharing my views might be helpful, and then I will, but it does come from a perspective of someone who carries their pack, wants to walk from a start point to SDC, and would occasionally like to walk in quiet contemplation even during the last 100 km.

Does it matter that fewer of the questions might prompt me to reach for my copy of Gitlittz and Davidson, and more seem to require access to a Michelin guide? Probably not. There are more than enough other members around who are willing to answer such questions. But don't expect that I won't ponder from time to time over what motivates these questions, and wonder whether or not I would like to walk or share a meal with those that ask them.

 

[AnneO]

I think there is a huge difference between:

This is what I do because it is best for me
and
This is what I do and it is the correct way to do it and anyone who doesn’t do it this way is wrong.

One of these is stating an opinion and one of these is being judgmental.

I get it. It is difficult when things change from what someone thinks is an integral part of their own experience. For my part, I studied in León in 1995 and saw few pilgrims. The city appears to me from Camino vlogs I have seen to be much more touristy now because there are so many more pilgrims. I am sure I will feel a particular way about that when I get there. But new and different isn’t automatically bad or wrong.

 

[C clearly]

I assume this is partly in response to my post

I don't think so. If you search on the forum for the word "best" in the title, you will find this many threads. And that is only for the titles.

I admit that I sometimes tire of the questions asking "what is the best this or that?" Of course the question is innocent as an individual enquiry, but similarly, it is worth considering what "best" really means in the context of the Camino. Sometimes the person asking for the most beautiful/scenic view has never really thought about looking at the journey in a different way from the usual.

they are totally jerks on this forum.

I think you are being harsh. We should be able to discuss opinions, tolerate some frustrations, and even get annoyed with each other, without name-calling.

The same old timer forum members who sometimes get cranky are often the same old timers who spend a lot of time and effort to be helpful, most of the time. The newcomers and occasional members may come on the forum, ask about the best whatever, and then disappear. Other members stick around and sooner or later they will show human flaws!

There are very few set rules for walking a Camino other than those for claiming a Compostela.Those who decide to cherry-pick their route are of course entitled to do so. But those who see pilgrimage in a different light should also be allowed to state their own opinions openly. If someone has considered their own choices and believe their decision is valid then why not defend that position by reasoned argument rather than simply dismissing contrary views as "judgemental"?

And there is rarely an intent to "shame" anyone.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

The same old timer forum members who sometimes get cranky are often the same old timers who spend a lot of time and effort to be helpful, most of the time. The newcomers and occasional members may come on the forum, ask about the best whatever, and then disappear. Other members stick around and sooner or later they will show human flaws!

Well said, C, and very true! The oldtimers and mods are a wealth of knowledge and spend time to answer questions and offer good advice to both newbies and seasoned forum members like me.

 

[BombayBill]

I think some of the push back on some of the Camino issues comes from the founding principles of any particular specialist blog. If you ask members of a “hammer blog” a question you’ll find they believe everything looks like a nail. If you ask long term members / moderators of this blog a question they may well point out your viewpoint is the wrong way to approach the subject. That’s the nature of this blog. This is a Pilgrimage forum and so if some people take an approach to the the Camino that is contrary to the ethos of this blog there’s going to be some pushback.

 

[lalaone]

I empathize with your question, Tincatinker. Nobody wants something they love reduced to a list of “must sees” or “must avoids.” I also empathize with your feelings, lovelyshell, the internet can be a place full of misunderstanding and hurt feelings, in this case unintentional!

While I’ve posted before about my personal love of walking through the industrial zones on the CF, I recognize that is also shaped by personal circumstances beyond a desire to complete every kilometer. I used to serve coffee and breakfast to truck drivers on the “graveyard” shift, with some great conversations. In subsequent years I always wondered over the surprises and insights of any particular morning and then found it to be similar on the Camino: a fool’s errand to guess in advance what would mean the most. Those moments could come anywhere, with anyone – so best not to shut off possibilities.

For whatever it’s worth, I have not heard the word “sketchy” used conversationally in about 20 years here in the US. We used it as kids and adolescents in the 90’s as a shorthand to keep one another safe, largely in the absence of parents or protective adults after school. If a circumstance or an area was sketchy or sketch, it just meant to exercise extra caution and vigilance on your own, because you couldn’t count on help or authorities. Some of those areas were urban, others not. I am surprised to see it again now! But it’s not as condemning or judgmental as it sounds at first (at least in my admittedly ancient understanding), just about being aware and careful.

 

[Former member 92300]

For whatever it’s worth, I have not heard the word “sketchy” used conversationally in about 20 years here in the US.

I hear the phrase "that's sketch" all the time! Very common to hear it amongst the youth in my area (also US).

I haven't experienced any area on the Camino that I would consider "sketchy". Of course - I laugh because in my neighborhood when something even remotely "bad" happens - residents refer to that subdivision as being "ghetto" - but I have lived near real "ghetto" neighborhoods before - so I can't help but laugh at what they are calling "ghetto" (nice, middle class suburb with minimal problems). And after driving through what I consider "sketchy" or "ghetto"... nothing I have experienced in Spain so far is comparable. I have never felt unsafe/nervous in Spain in any neighborhood. And the only vigilance I use is "be aware of your surroundings" which is what everyone should practice - everywhere.

Of course - we all judge safety by our own experiences and comfort levels.

 

[dick bird]

I’m not taking it personal. I just find it so rude that people make post like this or make comments on peoples post when they just have questions. The Camino is a new thing for a lot of people and questions are valid yet some people on this forum judge for not doing things the way they did it.

Calling people ‘jerks’ is not exactly polite either.

This is a valid issue, whether one should cherry pick vs walking the sections you can within your time and money constraints. My own view is that skipping unappealing sections devalues the experience, but that’s a personal view. Please, can we all express our views with reasons and evidence. Avoid taking umbrage at opposing ideas and bear in mind some forum members have a very dry, laconic sense of humour.

 

[WalkinRon]

This thread reminds me how impressed I was by the many hospitaleros, hotel staff, restaurant, bar and cafe servers, etc. Before I started the Camino I assumed that the many pilgrims were good business for these folk. Walking the Camino I came to realize that, for the most part, our hosts were kind, thoughtful, caring people who truly believed in doing their part to support the pilgrims. They work so very very hard. Each day the next group comes through and it all begins anew. There's no "real pilgrim" test. They provide this support to all without any judgment.

Where I come from, this is called: "Walking the walk."

 

[VNwalking]

The first is quite likely to be disappointed, and not be changed by the experience. The second is likely to find something that changes them.

The concern, however expressed, is that those who seek only the bits they think best will miss the best.

If you mis something, you never know what you've missed...

someone has considered their own choices and believe their decision is valid then why not defend that position by reasoned argument rather than simply dismissing contrary views as "judgemental"?

Amen.

Possibly they have overreacted,

It does seem so, from the outside looking in. The OP was not talking about something completely different.

but we should ask ourselves why are they feeling compelled to feel that way.

It’s insulting.

Feeling insulted is a choice.
And we all have our own inner achilles heels - everyone is a 'snowflake' about something. So if posts are basically friendly (which all of these are), and something really gets you, why not use feeling aggrieved to cultivate resilience rather than deepening a habit of feeling insulted?

And if everyone tiptoes around where I get reactive, the tiptoeing only encourages my habit of being triggered. No thanks!

 

[Esperanza]

All I know is that my perfect Camino would be lined with spaghetti trees and wine fountains.

 

[RJM]

I've walked entire Camino routes and also leapfrogged to Santiago and if course I cherry picked when I leap frogged. Does that make it less of a real Camino walked? Hell no. It's just my having less time and wanting to go to certain locations along the route and that required skipping certain sections not on my favorite list.
I always refer to them, but I have no doubt had they had an opportunity to do so, ancient medieval pilgrims would have leap frogged, rode on carts and done all sorts of things that would make the holier than thou modern pilgrims shudder.

 

[MichaelB10398]

I assume this is partly in response to my post about taking a taxi out of Porto - keep in mind that not all pilgrims have the luxury of time. When on a restricted schedule maybe it makes sense to skip a section? You don’t have to be rude about it. I swear people who wax on about the spirit of the Camino end up being the most judgmental

Welcome to the forum. Let's not make assumptions about the comments made by others. It just gets confusing, and it places us in a position of projecting far too much. I have been around the forum for a few years; it is not a place to take things personally. Read what you want and ignore the rest.
You will find specific contributors that you may enjoy more than others and it is good to seek out their input. Unsurprisingly, there will be others that you may not enjoy as much and that is how life is.
Ask questions and know that there really are no poor questions.
You will have a great Camino. As soon as you commit to going, your Camino begins. There is no other starting point other than your front door. The Camino is what you make it; what you are willing to give to it. There is not a single way to do it. It is your Camino and no one else's.
Remember that these folks on here are just human with frailties and strengths and, more importantly, you are one of them. You belong and you will find that on your Camino, some individuals will become life-long friends. Be open to that and Bon Chemin.

 

[Kathor1]

This is a Pilgrimage forum and so if some people take an approach to the Camino that is contrary to the ethos of this blog there’s going to be some pushback.

It is not just “this blog”, i.e. this forum.

I was looking for a very old post (from 2008!) and then had a look at a few other comments by the same poster when I saw a link to one of the many theses about the modern secular Camino and those who walk it. The topic is about alternative rituals of conclusion of the modern peregrin@ which is obviously not a topic of this thread but the first part is a description of developments of a kind of catalogue for the “approach to the Camino“ or “ethos of the pilgrimage community” (for lack of a better expression): The influential pilgrim associations at the time (in the 1980s) were instrumental in shaping this catalogue and many Camino pilgrims have internalised it since.

Experienced Camino pilgrims frequently bring up this catalogue of attitude and behaviour because they agree with it, and it is not always clear to me why: because it is beneficial for them and they want to share this with others; because they are convinced that it is beneficial for everyone if everyone would just open their eyes and follow this catalogue of behaviour and attitude; or that it is detrimental to the idealised Camino concept overall if too many don’t follow it.

The discussion can become controversial when especially newcomers to Camino walking and to the temporary peregrin@ existence perceive such comments as prescriptive when they are perhaps only meant as sharing personal views.

 

[Paul Wilson]

@Tincatinker well that thread took a sudden twist not sure how it has all resolved itself because I’ve skipped the posts in the middle

For what it’s worth I’ve walked and I’ve bussed along the Camino (due to an injury) and I learned that for me (yes it’s my opinion therefor incontestable) what ever way you travel is “your Camino” anything else is irrelevant so if you chose to start somewhere different or to transport your bag or even yourself that’s fine but asking which bit to miss or which bit is boring is subjective and will always draw negativity from somewhere…me personally, where I can, I just walk along like a grinning idiot happy to be on the way buen camino mi amigos

 

[Former member 71219]

My very first post on this forum was exactly the "cherry picking the best bits" kind of post that everyone seems to hate and I got absolutely caned for it. In my defence, coming from Australia, I wanted to make the trip worth my while with the limited time I had. The responses I got to my post made me feel so bad that I asked Ivar to delete my post. And I've been nervous about post since then in case I get the same response.
Be gentle people, be kind. There are real humans on the other side.

 

[woody66]

I haven't been here long compared to the many who helped me walk my Camino!
The one thing that resonated with me from the earliest posts is:
"Walk your own Camino and not other peoples!"

I know i missed a mountain of experiences,did things wrong in the eyes of purists,got lost,got wet,and got bored in places, did it take away the joy of being there NO!!
I was free and happy and wanted more.

Whichever way people think let them make their own path.

For what it’s worth I’ve walked and I’ve bussed along the Camino (due to an injury) and I learned that for me (yes it’s my opinion therefor incontestable) what ever way you travel is “your Camino” anything else is irrelevant so if you chose to start somewhere different or to transport your bag or even yourself that’s fine but asking which bit to miss or which bit is boring is subjective and will always draw negativity from somewhere…me personally, where I can, I just walk along like a grinning idiot happy to be on the way buen camino mi amigos

Yep smile life's to short misery makes misery.
Woody

 

[Kirkie]

Maybe it is time for Ivar to come out of the cupboard and restate the purpose of the forum. As with all institutions, time offers opportunities to update goals and visions. Time to stop argument and just see how and if the forum is still fit for purpose. There is facebook for those who prefer.
Personally, I try not to react, but to respond, though sometimes, being human! I make mistakes, misinterpret or whatever.
This is a good week given the origin of the Camino, to examine the story of the camino, never mind the forum. Thanks to everyone trying to keep the forum a safe place without injuring anyone deliberately. Have a good week, wherever you are. Animo and all the rest of it.

 

[VNwalking]

While I generally agree with your point about peace, @Kirkie, this struck me in an uncomfortable place:

There is facebook for those who prefer.

That's not a viable option for all - not everyone is willing to be on facebook. Facebook is a global purveyor of hate and misinformation. This little Camino Forum is not.

 

[Turga]

I’m not sure I have a question but if I did it would probably be “Que?”.

After having read all the responses in this thread, I stand skeptical, but pretty positive

 

[Kirkie]

While I generally agree with your point about peace, @Kirkie, this struck me in an uncomfortable place:

That's not a viable option for all - not everyone is willing to be on facebook. Facebook is a global purveyor of hate and misinformation. This little Camino Forum is not.

You are right. I am not on facebook, but see references to facebook groups about the Camino.

 

[dougfitz]

Facebook is a global purveyor of hate and misinformation.

That's overreaching. Facebook is just a tool, and it is the individuals who are responsible for this. You might, legitimately I suggest, be concerned that not enough is done to remove misinformation and hate speech, and that is something I think all social media platforms might do better. But lets not confuse the tool with the actions of those users who want to spread lies and hate.

 

[chinacat]

It is not just “this blog”, i.e. this forum.

I was looking for a very old post (from 2008!) and then had a look at a few other comments by the same poster when I saw a link to one of the many theses about the modern secular Camino and those who walk it. The topic is about alternative rituals of conclusion of the modern peregrin@ which is obviously not a topic of this thread but the first part is a description of developments of a kind of catalogue for the “approach to the Camino“ or “ethos of the pilgrimage community” (for lack of a better expression): The influential pilgrim associations at the time (in the 1980s) were instrumental in shaping this catalogue and many Camino pilgrims have internalised it since.

Experienced Camino pilgrims frequently bring up this catalogue of attitude and behaviour because they agree with it, and it is not always clear to me why: because it is beneficial for them and they want to share this with others; because they are convinced that it is beneficial for everyone if everyone would just open their eyes and follow this catalogue of behaviour and attitude; or that it is detrimental to the idealised Camino concept overall if too many don’t follow it.

The discussion can become controversial when especially newcomers to Camino walking and to the temporary peregrin@ existence perceive such comments as prescriptive when they are perhaps only meant as sharing personal views.

I found this phrase, in the thesis you mentioned, to be of particular interest, as it related to ‘pilgrim authenticity’:

”conclusion “that there are many authenticities” (Frey, 136)”

 

[williamlittig]

OK, so, well here we go. I’ve been seeing, and sometimes responding to, lots (it seems) of posts about, essentially, which bits of Camino to avoid. Urban bits; steep bits; roadside bits; bits where the cafés don’t get good reviews; industrial bits ( though apparently that bit on the Invierno where the Romans totally trashed an entire mountain is cool); bits where there might be more pilgrims than is desirable; bits where holiday makers soak up to much of the accommodation….

So, I think it’s time we put our heads together and helped Tourismo Galicia, and everyone who needs one, construct the perfect Camino. Not too long, attractive landscapes, comfortable accommodations supplying exquisite food and, essentially, no unpleasant bits. No grumpy Tinkers; no tired Hospitaler@; no chewy Lomo with soggy chips…

I’m not sure I have a question but if I did it would probably be “Que?”.

Try Disney World, few real mountains, the restaurants are reviewed, there are foreign lands and you won't currently need a passport or shot record. Please post comments in their local paper.

 

[Former member 92300]

The responses I got to my post made me feel so bad that I asked Ivar to delete my post. And I've been nervous about post since then in case I get the same response.

I think this is the only thing I don't like about this forum. We can't simply delete our own posts when we feel they should be deleted - for whatever reason.

 

[williamlittig]

So, I don't have a dog in this fight (conversation?), and I approach this as a total newbie, very much looking forward to my first Camino (141 days - but who's counting??) There are so many things that can feel really intimidating when planning this journey. Do I have the time I need to dedicate to this endeavor? Do I have the financial resources? Can I realistically take time out of my "real" life? (Turns out, this is my real life...) Why is anyone crazy enough to do this? And then there are the myriad questions from friends and loved ones when you finally say out loud that you're going to do this thing. They may fear for your safety, they'll certainly miss you, maybe they don't want you to go for any number of their own reasons. But, with over three years of planning under my belt at this point, I do have a few thoughts... (And I make a living talking and expressing thoughts and ideas, so...)

It's so easy, while planning, to get caught up in other people's struggles and impressions. Like, am I strong enough, fit enough to take the Napoleon Route over the Pyrenees? Can I really carry this crazy backpack all the way across a country? Will the pain I'm experiencing in my foot today derail my journey in 4-something months? I'm such a light sleeper, can I tolerate the snoring in albergues? What about the food - will I find what I like and need? There are so many things to worry about, and be afraid of, or be sidelined by. But the thing that I look forward to is, well, all of it. I've learned a few things about myself over the years - struggle has a tendency to make me stronger - mentally and physically. The so-called "ugly" bits make me appreciate the beautiful parts. The rude people, and the hordes of teenagers (I deal with a lot of them at work), make me appreciate the quiet kindness of someone else. And when it's all said and done, no matter where I've begun, or where I've ended, knowing that I completed my journey has often been the most rewarding part.

I've been fortunate enough to sail across oceans, I've traveled all over the world, I nearly died in a third-world country, and I've absolutely lived my best life in some of the most amazing places in the world. And all of that has made me exactly who I am. It's all a part of the story we write about ourselves. A friend of mine always reminds me: bloom where you are. It's easy to look over the fence and say: it looks better over there. But finding the beauty in struggle, and pain, and darkness, just makes the brightness of light all that much better.

Over the last few years, I've watched way too many Camino vlogs, and what I've discerned from all of those is that everyone's journey is different. One person may despise the Meseta, and for another it might be their favorite part. Some folks thrive in the chaos of crowds, and some can only tolerate solitude. In the end, my plan is to try to take the good with the bad, if there is such a thing. Take the hard with the easy. Take it all to the best of my ability. And bloom exactly where I am.

Here's to the perfect Camino - whatever that means...

Stina

Stina, you're correct in studying before you go, preparation is important, be prepared, be flexible, be yourself. It will all be new and you are allowed to adapt. It will be your Camino. We "The Last Patrol" will be there with you, leaving SJPP 9/20.

 

[peregrina2000]

We have had lots of posts in the past that ask for opinions, for example, about whether to walk a two week continuous stretch or to skip forward and hop over some parts. People who don’t have the time or money to walk for a month, people who want to see the Pyrenees and yet walk into Santiago, there are tons of reasons. But that’s not how this thread got started. It kind of threw out a premise with a critical (some think mocking and judgmental) tone directed at those who have asked that question in the past. At least that’s how I read it. I don’t blame those who have asked that question in the past for feeling a bit slighted here, in a way that they wouldn’t have if the same opinions had simply been made politely in the context of a discussion about the issue.

I don’t like to close threads with my magic wand, so I’ll leave it open but ask that people try to frame their opinions in a constructive and polite way.

 

[Kathor1]

I think this is the only thing I don't like about this forum. We can't simply delete our own posts when we feel they should be deleted - for whatever reason.

Just for the record: You can delete your post, at least for a certain number of days or weeks. Or edit it. I make a lot of typing errors and grammatical mistakes and I often see that a chosen word or phrase could be replaced by a better one, and when there has not been a reply or other reaction to my comment, I sometimes delete it and post an improved version. What you cannot delete yourself is the first post that started the thread. Also, you cannot close a thread that you have started yourself when you feel that the replies are sufficient.

 

[shefollowsshells]

OK, so, well here we go. I’ve been seeing, and sometimes responding to, lots (it seems) of posts about, essentially, which bits of Camino to avoid. Urban bits; steep bits; roadside bits; bits where the cafés don’t get good reviews; industrial bits ( though apparently that bit on the Invierno where the Romans totally trashed an entire mountain is cool); bits where there might be more pilgrims than is desirable; bits where holiday makers soak up to much of the accommodation….

So, I think it’s time we put our heads together and helped Tourismo Galicia, and everyone who needs one, construct the perfect Camino. Not too long, attractive landscapes, comfortable accommodations supplying exquisite food and, essentially, no unpleasant bits. No grumpy Tinkers; no tired Hospitaler@; no chewy Lomo with soggy chips…

I’m not sure I have a question but if I did it would probably be “Que?”.

Yikes! I responded after reading the initial post and didn’t notice other responses or that this thread started a fire. I stand by my post, not to judge, but to encourage folks that the camino is an onion with layers of experiences that define it.

I’ve never understood the “ ugly” “ boring” descriptions… the camino is so much more than scenerio.
It’s what our minds are thinking, it’s the company we keep, it’s the person or woolen who just might enter our life at that moment or day. It’s a bug, bird, dog, cat or animal…
It’s just soooooo much, never understood trying to avoid any of the opportunity that might present itself to me…

 

[bullingtonce]

OK, so, well here we go. I’ve been seeing, and sometimes responding to, lots (it seems) of posts about, essentially, which bits of Camino to avoid. Urban bits; steep bits; roadside bits; bits where the cafés don’t get good reviews; industrial bits ( though apparently that bit on the Invierno where the Romans totally trashed an entire mountain is cool); bits where there might be more pilgrims than is desirable; bits where holiday makers soak up to much of the accommodation….

So, I think it’s time we put our heads together and helped Tourismo Galicia, and everyone who needs one, construct the perfect Camino. Not too long, attractive landscapes, comfortable accommodations supplying exquisite food and, essentially, no unpleasant bits. No grumpy Tinkers; no tired Hospitaler@; no chewy Lomo with soggy chips…

I’m not sure I have a question but if I did it would probably be “Que?”.

An understandable perspective; however, a perfect Camino would be its death knoll. Preferable is a Camino that reflects life as it realistically is--full of suffering.

 

[Elaine Rau]

I assume this is partly in response to my post about taking a taxi out of Porto - keep in mind that not all pilgrims have the luxury of time. When on a restricted schedule maybe it makes sense to skip a section? You don’t have to be rude about it. I swear people who wax on about the spirit of the Camino end up being the most judgmental

Yes. The site is becoming quite judgmental. Sad.

 

[Former member 92300]

Just for the record: You can delete your post, at least for a certain number of days or weeks. Or edit it. I make a lot of typing errors and grammatical mistakes and I often see that a chosen word or phrase could be replaced by a better one, and when there has not been a reply or other reaction to my comment, I sometimes delete it and post an improved version. What you cannot delete yourself is the first post that started the thread. Also, you cannot close a thread that you have started yourself when you feel that the replies are sufficient.

Yes - you can delete your REPLIES for a period of time, and you can edit them if needed unless the thread becomes locked. But there are times when you start a thread and realize it would be better to just delete the entire thread... especially when it goes totally off topic and is no longer constructive.


Luckily it isn't often a problem - but there are times when a thread is better off being deleted.

 

[wayfarer]

I think this is the only thing I don't like about this forum. We can't simply delete our own posts when we feel they should be deleted - for whatever reason.

You can delete your post for up to one week, after that you can request a deletion of post or thread. This was introduced to protect the continuity of the threads because over the years a few members got the hump and started deleting their threads and posts on other threads and did some serious damage to the forum. A week is a good cooling down period IMO.

 

[caminoresearcher]

I agree with what you’re saying. If the Camino is a metaphor/mirror for our lives, we don’t get to skip over the ugly or boring bits. They too have their lessons and purpose. I too feel the concern that the pilgrimage bit is getting a little lost in the vacation planning. I also get the notion that everyone has to experience their own Camino and do what’s right for them. I just hope whatever Camino everyone walks, they leave room for the magic to come in. And sometimes it comes when/where you least expect it.

 

[wayfarer]

Yes. The site is becoming quite judgmental. Sad.

I don't agree, this is one of the safest forums you will get and for the most part nasty and judgmental comments are shut down asap but some people have a tendency to feel judged or offended where none has been given.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I don't agree, this is one of the safest forums you will get and for the most part nasty and judgmental comments are shut down asap but some people have a tendency to feel judged or offended where none has been given.

I absolutely agree with this. The forum is very well moderated.

 

[SuefromVegas]

I went with zero expectations other than just to experience what the Camino has to offer. There is no good, bad, perfect or imperfect. I think those with specific expectations will always be disappointed. The spirit of the Camino should sustain us. All of it, every plane, train, bus, every step, every pilgrim, every accommodation, every meal, every expected and unexpected moment is part of it. You will never be disappointed if you have no expectations. It will all just happen. And as is said over and over again, the Camino provides tangible and otherwise.

 

[henrythedog]

Yes. The site is becoming quite judgmental. Sad.

I respectfully disagree.

There are clearly different perspectives; which is almost inevitable when multiple people express a view. I was originally an economist, so I am quite capable of holding two conflicting opinions simultaneously.

There are multiple resources on the internet dedicated to walking (in Spain or elsewhere) or going on holiday (ditto); this is quite explicitly ‘the Camino Forum’; which inevitably gives it a certain focus and attracts and retains many better informed posters than I.

There is clearly a point at which opinions divide as to ‘what is a Camino’; which I am no more qualified than anyone to define even for myself and certainly not for others - but the essential nature of a continuous journey to or towards and then possibly home from an end-point of significance is (in my opinion) important. How otherwise would one claim to be ‘on Camino’ as opposed to ‘on a walking holiday’?

 

[RJM]

While I generally agree with your point about peace, @Kirkie, this struck me in an uncomfortable place:

That's not a viable option for all - not everyone is willing to be on facebook. Facebook is a global purveyor of hate and misinformation. This little Camino Forum is not.

Hate and misinformation?
I don't know if I've experienced that on FB. I simply find it useful to keep in contact with friends and former coworkers from all over the world, and there are indeed some FB group pages concerning the Camino and just like with this forum there's a lot of questions asked on them and a lot of answers to the questions, some of the answers useful others pure rubbish.

 

[Kathor1]

These two statements surprise me although I know how common they are in Camino pilgrimage circles. It does not matter who wrote it which is why I have removed the name of the posters from the quotes:

If the Camino is a metaphor/mirror for our lives, we don’t get to skip over the ugly or boring bits. They too have their lessons and purpose. I too feel the concern that the pilgrimage bit is getting a little lost in the vacation planning.

Where does this idea come from that the Camino is a metaphor/mirror for our lives? In the Middle Ages, perhaps even earlier, Christian scholars developed the idea that we human beings are only wanderers or pilgrims on earth and that the real destination of our existence is reached upon death when we would (hopefully) enter Heaven. That the Camino is a mirror or metaphor of our lives with ups and downs turns this concept on its head and must be a pretty novel idea. As far as I am concerned, every month of my life or at least every year of my adult life had its ups and downs ... hiking or not, pilgrimage or no pilgrimage.

Preferable is a Camino that reflects life as it realistically is--full of suffering.

Again, a badly understood and liberal interpretation of the medieval Christian concept of penitence and of pilgrimage as penitence and suffering including being temporarily exiled. No longer a generally taught or accepted concept in our times (PS: in contemporary mainstream Christian theology and contemporary civil and ecclesiastical law).

Of course, these ideas are reflected in the idea that (Camino) pilgrimage means walking; walking for a really long time; uninterrupted walking; and walking under circumstances that are perceived as adverse or inconvenient by an individual and must never be avoided under any circumstances by anyone. Fine if peregrin@s opt for such an attitude voluntarily. But as a general rule for all on the way? Who is the authority for all this? There is none.

 

[VNwalking]

Hate and misinformation?

It gets political, so if you and @dougfitz want to tread my reasons for saying that, please PM me. Just to say here, yes. Hate and misinformation. And I can stand by that, with examples. Certainly not everywhere on FB, but it has done real damage to real people. And people who just post camino stuff on their timelines never see that. So they defend the platform as innocent, because that's their only experience of it.

 

[MesaWalker]

I walked the Frances in 2020 from SJPDP and I never considered missing a section. It was important to me to walk every step of the way even the less attractive boring bits. I did have the luxury of time as I had just retired and had no return flight booked. I’m walking the Portuguese central route in May and starting in Porto as I’m now back working part-time so have limited time. I know the walk out of Porto is considered boring but I think you have to take the bad with the good. I’d rather do a continuous walk from A to B than skip sections. That’s just my thoughts.

When we walked the CF in 2021, part of the challenge for my wife and me was to try to find beauty even where it wasn't obvious. My mother drummed into me as a child a saying something like "a truly educated (or was it "wise"?) person is never bored." That can be taken to extremes, but on the Camino we were able to find something beautiful or interesting pretty much everywhere, whether it was a solitary flower blooming in an industrial area walking into Burgos, or the endless vistas on the meseta.

 

[VNwalking]

medieval Christian concept of penitence and of pilgrimage as penitence. No longer a generally taught or accepted concept in our times.

Actually what you quoted and were replying to is a very mainstream and universal Buddhist idea.

The pennance part you added in your reply is a particularly Chritian thing. But the Buddhist view is that cleatly realizing the universality of unpleasant experiences is freeing. So walking through the gritty parts of a camino is a way of deepening both that understanding and the letting go that results. As well as deepening the realization that unpleasantess is inevitable but suffering on account of that is optional.

 

[Kathor1]

Actually what you quoted and were replying to is a very mainstream and universal Buddhist idea.

Fwiw, I have added "PS: in contemporary mainstream Christian theology and in contemporary civil and ecclesiastical law" to my post #73 since we are talking about the specific pilgrimage to Saint James in Galicia which saw its heydays in the Middle Ages, a period in history from which people draw ideas, based on actual facts or fiction, about Camino walking in the 21st century, and not about other forms such as the pilgrimage to Mecca or to Medjugorje for example.

 

[leatherneck332]

Oh, I clicked on this because I thought it was for me since the thread title is my exact description on most dating sites…

 

[Burton Axxe]

I’m not one for engaging in meta discussions. But I will describe something connected to this discussion that I’m seeing on this, my first, Camino so far…

I’m surprised that even the smaller towns such as Estella and Santo Domingo have noticeable industrial sections that greet the pilgrim. But, dammit, I kind of like those gritty bits. Helps me realize that this isn’t a nature hike through the daisies but is often a slog through a chunk of very real life.

 

[BigT]

Tincatinker,
All I can say at first blush is WOW!
I thought you had a cool thought that would generate some reflection of past Caminos and interesting comments to touch hearts and stir memories, and mostly positive with some humorous anecdotes (and you did).
Little did we realize that the pendulum would also strike some unpleasantness.
As is said, The Camino Provides.
Maybe not exactly what we want , but what we need, IF, we are able to recognize such.
For we Tres Amigos Antigua, well, we started on March 01, 2020 ,planning to go Sarria-Santiago-Finistere-Muxia-Santiago. We did get to Santiago, Finistere-Muxia, where were then Covided away.
We figured about 250 of us had that experience, and we are still receiving questions about our Camino. We received what we needed in friendships renewed, fellowship with others, aches, blisters, rain, wind, and sufficient nourishment of the mind, body, spirit, and soul.
Next up , Camino Portuguese from Porto via Senda Litoral and Variante Espiritual.
Thanks for the question upon which to muse.

 

[C clearly]

Maybe it is time for Ivar to come out of the cupboard and restate the purpose of the forum.

The purpose is stated loud and clear at the top of the forum page, although it might get very small on a phone screen.

My very first post on this forum was exactly the "cherry picking the best bits" kind of post that everyone seems to hate and I got absolutely caned for it.

I understand that when one gets a different reaction or advice than one expects, it can feel uncomfortable, but in fact you received entirely polite suggestions that you consider things differently.

you won't currently need a passport or shot record.

Just a reminder that the forum is an international group and passports are usually needed for such travel.

there are times when a thread is better off being deleted.

Yes, but it is hard to know (i.e. "judge") when a thread (or post) is better off deleted. In many cases, closing a thread is a good compromise.

The site is becoming quite judgmental. Sad

I have been a member of the forum for 15 years, and I would say it is no more nor less judgemental than always. And I cannot imagine a multicultural forum that combines openness with courtesy any better than this one.

 

[KatrineF]

OK, so, well here we go. I’ve been seeing, and sometimes responding to, lots (it seems) of posts about, essentially, which bits of Camino to avoid. Urban bits; steep bits; roadside bits; bits where the cafés don’t get good reviews; industrial bits ( though apparently that bit on the Invierno where the Romans totally trashed an entire mountain is cool); bits where there might be more pilgrims than is desirable; bits where holiday makers soak up to much of the accommodation….

So, I think it’s time we put our heads together and helped Tourismo Galicia, and everyone who needs one, construct the perfect Camino. Not too long, attractive landscapes, comfortable accommodations supplying exquisite food and, essentially, no unpleasant bits. No grumpy Tinkers; no tired Hospitaler@; no chewy Lomo with soggy chips…

I’m not sure I have a question but if I did it would probably be “Que?”.

Virtual reality will solve all of these requests…
I’m staying with the imperfect real world…
The annoyances show me exactly where I need to humble up…

 

[BombayBill]

I’m not one for engaging in meta discussions. But I will describe something connected to this discussion that I’m seeing on this, my first, Camino so far…

I’m surprised that even the smaller towns such as Estella and Santo Domingo have noticeable industrial sections that greet the pilgrim. But, dammit, I kind of like those gritty bits. Helps me realize that this isn’t a nature hike through the daisies but is often a slog through a chunk of very real life.

I suppose the gritty bits of the Camino can be likened to the gritty bits of this forum. You can choose to "ignore" the persistent grump as you would choose to bypass unloved industrial areas. However sometimes things can be better understood in contrast. The overall pleasure of the Camino despite the onerous bits is much like the pleasure of this forum despite the occasional crankiness.

 

[Caminogoat]

OK, so, well here we go. I’ve been seeing, and sometimes responding to, lots (it seems) of posts about, essentially, which bits of Camino to avoid. Urban bits; steep bits; roadside bits; bits where the cafés don’t get good reviews; industrial bits ( though apparently that bit on the Invierno where the Romans totally trashed an entire mountain is cool); bits where there might be more pilgrims than is desirable; bits where holiday makers soak up to much of the accommodation….

So, I think it’s time we put our heads together and helped Tourismo Galicia, and everyone who needs one, construct the perfect Camino. Not too long, attractive landscapes, comfortable accommodations supplying exquisite food and, essentially, no unpleasant bits. No grumpy Tinkers; no tired Hospitaler@; no chewy Lomo with soggy chips…

I’m not sure I have a question but if I did it would probably be “Que?”.

I have been walking the Camino del Norte using my iFIT. My treadmill came with iFIT and a 22-inch screen. Each morning, I program a route using Google Maps and walk for about 4 hours. I have visited many lovely towns and villages that are not listed on the typical Camino del Norte stages. The iFIT mimics actual inclines and declines (of course not in actual scale) so I know how steep or easy certain route is. I got to explore the towns that I visited many times but never really walked around. My iFIT with preprogrammed adventurous routes that take me all over the world as well as the Google-based self-programming capability is helping me to get by until I can do the actual Camino this fall.

 

[grayland]

Yes. The site is becoming quite judgmental. Sad.

It seems that "judgemental" is the response of many folks here to any opinion that they disagree with or makes them a bit uncomfortable.

As @Bradypus earlier pointed out, a much more mature and intelligent response would be to offer a counter opinion as a response.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I have deleted a few of my posts over the years within the time limit, but notice if said post has been quoted by someone before I've had opportunity to remove it, I think it stays forever within the quoted text; is this correct?

 

[chinacat]

I have deleted a few of my posts over the years within the time limit, but notice if said post has been quoted by someone before I've had opportunity to remove it, I think it stays forever within the quoted text; is this correct?

As far as I can see, yes.

 

[wayfarer]

I have deleted a few of my posts over the years within the time limit, but notice if said post has been quoted by someone before I've had opportunity to remove it, I think it stays forever within the quoted text; is this correct?

That is correct but if you give a mod a heads up they will delete it.

 

[dbeatriceb]

I've occasionally added 10+km to my day just to be sure of leaving someone well behind me.

I tried that and it did not work. But the opposite did work— I took an unplanned zero day and let that person get way ahead so I did not have to see them anymore.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I was just thinking...
For those who dislike seeing/walking through the uglier industrial bits heading into larger towns and cities on the Camino, how about taking a very long walk on one of our beautiful, natural and mountainous trails in the USA. You will be carrying a tent and all your meals for a week at a time, and you will never see one unappealing industrial area. On a much longer walk, I totally appreciate the Caminos, preferring to sleep in a bed each night and only carrying snacks...just saying.

 

[Bradypus]

how about taking a very long walk on one of our beautiful, natural and mountainous trails in the USA.

On my only visit to the USA I met some serious-looking gentlemen with automatic rifles who made it abundantly clear that I should visit another part of the Montana forest very soon. I've also read Bill Bryson's book about the AT. I'll stay this side of the pond for my walking in the near future!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I'll stay this side of the pond for my walking in the near future!

I prefer your side, as well, especially if on multi-week traversing.

 

[trecile]

That is correct but if you give a mod a heads up they will delete it.

And the best way to do that is to report your own post, or the post that quoted yours.

 

[Former member 92300]

Yes, but it is hard to know (i.e. "judge") when a thread (or post) is better off deleted. In many cases, closing a thread is a good compromise.

Yes - but when you started the thread - should be your choice to delete the thread if you feel it isn't going the way you intended. Oh well - not my forum, not my rules, and not my decision! But I do see that as the one negative of this forum. I know I can ask to get something deleted, but that is a hassle too.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I've also read Bill Bryson's book about the AT.

I've also read Bill Bryson's book of his experience on the AT, titled "A Walk in the Woods". It had quite a few laughs and it was also made into a fun movie starring Robert Redford and Nick Nolte.

 

[henrythedog]

Yes - but when you started the thread - should be your choice to delete the thread if you feel it isn't going the way you intended.

I do understand Jeanine; but that rather defeats the object of a forum with other participants.

Starting from a low base, mostly everyone on here educates me in some way.

 

[Tincatinker]

Well. That sparked some interesting debate. It never was, never is, my intention to slight or denigrate any individual who comes to this forum. It was, and always, is my intention to highlight issues that I feel are pertinent to the Camino and all its ways. And to challenge in such ways as I can that which I perceive as the increasing disneyvacation (nasty little portmanteau) of Camino. The thousand roads to Santiago offer myriad opportunity for adventure and learning (and lomo) and, surely, for a little challenge and discomfort. None of which need be avoided.

And now for the prizegiving:

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Starting from a low base, mostly everyone on here educates me in some way.

And you usually tickle my funny bone, in addition to educating me many times...a twofer.

 

[J Willhaus]

OK folks, back to the perfect Camino...

I am adding to my list: Communal Meal every night, Pilgrim Mass with blessing, only walking 16 km per day, and a place to get coffee con leche every morning!

 

[Bradypus]

I am adding to my list: Communal Meal every night, Pilgrim Mass with blessing, only walking 16 km per day, and a place to get coffee con leche every morning!

Only 16km per day? We will have to disagree on that one. I'd be bored rigid with all those hours left to fill. Each to their own!

 

[MesaWalker]

Add a napoleón with that café con leche and I'm with J Willhaus!

 

[C clearly]

Communal Meal every night

Not for me, thank you!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Only 16km per day? We will have to disagree on that one. I'd be bored rigid with all those hours left to fill. Each to their own!

For me, 20k per day is perfect (I've certainly done more) and definitely cafe con leche ASAP in the morning each and every day.