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There are a few of us (Kiwis) on the Camino, but our numbers are still low comparatively I guess, and our accent is different. They ask me, not my husband. I don't think anyone ever asked him directly, I guess culturally he's hard to place - he's not white, but speaks English, but not with a British or American accent.Is there anyone here who has never been asked at some point in an albergue or bar on the Camino where they are from?
Great question and a really fundamental and important point. It’s not necessarily that anyone is closing the door, but some people feel that the door is closed or don’t belong. Of course if they feel the door is open, whether they walk through it or not depends on a whole host of things.Is this really the case? Is the camino door closed to anyone at all? If you pay attention to threads such as "True Pilgrim", then it would seem that some narrow minded pedants may wish to exclude some potential pilgrims, but really how widespread is this attitude?
OED 2nd Edition 2009 :I thought l thought I would look up the OED definition of diversity… it says
“diversity” is defined as “the practice or quality of including or involving people from a range of different social and ethnic backgrounds and of different genders, sexual orientations, etc.”
At the risk of my post being deemed argumentative, I would like to say this: I am entitled to think what I like about another member of the forum, and vice versa, but on a flat forum such as this, wireless, with no visual clue as to nuance, humour or just plain human intent on reaching understanding I am not entitled to say what I am thinking.Is this really the case? Is the camino door closed to anyone at all? If you pay attention to threads such as "True Pilgrim", then it would seem that some narrow minded pedants may wish to exclude some potential pilgrims, but really how widespread is this attitude?
but I cannot remember one question from someone of a heritage that has given them a brown skin ... so maybe not just the Camino - maybe the forum too?
I quite agreebut on a flat forum such as this, wireless, with no visual clue as to nuance, humour or just plain human intent on reaching understanding I am not entitled to say what I am thinking.
Is that our problem, or theirs?but some people feel that the door is closed or don’t belong.
Of course it does, but perhaps not really so many. If they choose not to walk through, whose problem is it?Of course if they feel the door is open, whether they walk through it or not depends on a whole host of things.
It’s no-one’s problem and it not us and them. Just trying to make the Camino a more attractive proposition for a broader group of people. It really is that simple!!!Is that our problem, or theirs?
Of course it does, but perhaps not really so many. If they choose not to walk through, whose problem is it?
If it is no-ones problem, then surely it isn't a problem, or importantly shouldn't be. A more attractive proposition for a broader group of people? Who are these people and why do they need to be attracted any more than any others?O
It’s no-one’s problem and it not us and them. Just trying to make the Camino a more attractive proposition for a broader group of people. It really is that simple!!!
As Asians (aka, people of color) we stood out during our Camino. We were often asked where we were from. We didn’t mind and were happy to talk to or engage with anyone friendly enough.Her comments the first few days were interesting. From Roncesvalles to somewhere just after Pamplona she said often: “pilgrimage is for white folks, let’s leave and go to Greece”. Does every African-American feel this way? I neither know nor can speak for them. But, that’s what my well traveled mom said to me.
In the dark blue tool bar, top right, in between your name and the bell symbol (for alerts) is an envelope symbol. Click on that.I have been advised that I can talk to moderators about my deleted posts. How do I do this?
Agreed. It isn't. Why should it be?disproportionately white. Any of us who have walked a camino have surely noticed the same phenomenon in terms of racial preponderance. It isn’t a bad thing to think about why that could be.
Thanks. I have tried it.In the dark blue tool bar, top right, in between your name and the bell symbol (for alerts) is an envelope symbol. Click on that.
Why? Because he was a young black guy and what the waiter had done was to treat me the way black people get treated all the time,
As Asians (aka, people of color) we stood out during our Camino. We were often asked where we were from. We didn’t mind and were happy to talk to or engage with anyone friendly enough.
In Moratinos, we had a lovely dinner with a rather diverse group at the Albergue San Bruno: Mary from US, Yanos and Anita from Hungary, Mirae-who’s black from Belgium, and Sasha who’s German but grew up in Spain. I must say, the issue of cultural diversity never came up during the three-hour dinner although we talked about lots of things even non-Camino-related stuff.
We met other Asians, mostly Koreans. Many Koreans we met were girls who live in places other than Korea, like the US, UK, and Australia, most of them were traveling alone and had no issues with it. There was also an elderly gentleman who has lived in Germany for 30 years and has done multiple Caminos.
In Logroño, we met a young Taiwanese couple who were wandering around Calle Laurel, and we greeted and hugged each other like old friends. We met them again in Sto. Domingo de Calzada where I explained the tale of the chickens.
In Burgos, we met two Taiwanese boys (in their 20s) who were leapfrogging to Leon and Sarria after one of them suffered an injury, admittedly because they were rushing.
In Navarette, we met Pancha, an Indonesian lady who said we were the only Asians she had met up to that day. We met her again in Atapuerca and she still said the same thing.
Of course, we met other nationalities, mostly Europeans, the majority of them Spanish. In all our encounters, they were curious about us in a good way but were quite friendly.
In short, we knew and felt we were different from most of the other peregrinos but we took that as part of our Camino experience and I must say it was gratifying in the end.
@nycwalking on the issue of “pilgrimage is for white folks”, I’ve pondered upon this over the years, especially during the times in the past decades when I was trying to figure out what it was that was making me want to walk the Camino so bad. (i.e. Why the dream of doing it stuck with me for 40 years? Was it something I really wanted to do? Or was it just the legacy of a colonialist religious past that managed to bury itself inside my brain and could not be rooted out?) After much thought, I concluded that a pilgrimage on the Camino is something I wanted to do even if I do not know or understand why I wanted to do it. In short, it had nothing to do with whether it was a “white folk” tradition or not. It was just me.
Thanks for reading this far. Buen Camino!
P.S. I've edited this post to add a pic of our dinner in Moratinos, a truly memorable moment.
View attachment 160754
I have, so many times. Just a normal part of a conversation amongst strangers embarked on a journey such as the Camino.Is there anyone here who has never been asked at some point in an albergue or bar on the Camino where they are from?
But some of us might wonder why that is the case.Perhaps walking the Camino is just something that mainly certain demographics want to do.
Then if it is that much of a cause of concern for you perhaps do something to change it, if you feel it's due to wrongs. Certainly that would be more effective than just wondering about it and expressing said wonder on an internet forum. I mean anybody can do that.But some of us might wonder why that is the case.
I think it depends upon context. It us one thing to dig deeper in a genealogical inquiry. It is another if the white guy next to you answers "Chicago" and the matter is left there, then the white woman says "Milwaukee" and no more questions are asked, but you say "San Francisco" and the questions continue. That may be a sincere interest in an individual's history, but it is not an interest that is evenly applied.I am a genealogist and I often ask individuals what their heritage is and/or where their ancestors came from. Color is misleading and is NOT a reliable characteristic to evaluate or determine where one might come from. Please don't assume these types of questions are anything but a valid or sincere interest in an individual's history.
Re: what to do about it.I have begun to think that the thread has answered my question about the lack of diversity on the caminos and the possible reasons for it - a lot of food for thought. What to do about it was my other question. No answer so far and while we think about it maybe we will calm down and reflect and let the thread lie dormant (like so many other threads) until somone comes up with a positive idea how to be more inclusive….
I think SabsP gave you the answer right away.Thanks. I have tried it.
I don't think considering why it is the case precludes trying to change it.Then if it is that much of a cause of concern for you perhaps do something to change it, if you feel it's due to wrongs. Certainly that would be more effective than just wondering about it and expressing said wonder on an internet forum. I mean anybody can do that.
I agree. So unnecessary. But, thankfully it’s only a few. The vast majority of participants / posts have demonstrated that it is possible to have a thoughtful and respectful exchange of experiences, ideas and opinions.It’s a shame that some posts on this thread are very confrontational.
I'd tend to disagree. I walked from Santiago to SJPP last year, and I saw, and I met, passed time with, and exchanged views with *many* Asian pilgrims, of all ages, origins, and purposes.As Asians (aka, people of color) we stood out during our Camino.
Possibly Wu, who I met on the VDLP in 2017. Great to know he is still walking Caminos!There was also an elderly gentleman who has lived in Germany for 30 years and has done multiple Caminos.
It’s a shame that some posts on this thread are very confrontational.
We have deleted a few of the more aggressively rude posts and would like to repeat the request that if you do not think that this topic is "worthy" of forum discussion, please just ignore it. Ridicule, rudeness, and sarcasm are more problematic than usual when the discussion involves a difficult and sometimes sensitive topic like this. And if you don't think diversity on the camino is an issue, that's great, but no need to show your disdain for those who do.I agree. So unnecessary. But, thankfully it’s only a few. The vast majority of participants / posts have demonstrated that it is possible to have a thoughtful and respectful exchange of experiences, ideas and opinions.
We might have been separated at birth - but we do live in a society where such personal development is (relatively) possible, and to a degree encouraged.It’s a great post and I will relate an experience. I am not remotely suggesting it gets anywhere near anything based on ethnicity but try this…
I am 57, white, male, working class, heterosexual, I eat meat, like football, drink alcohol and so on. I have always ‘swam’ in the mainstream. Never really felt that I was an outsider, always felt included.
I am from poor and social housing background. Never really gave it a thought as so were everyone else I knew.
But when I started working, I met a very new group of people, middle class people, very different to me! I liked football they didn’t, I drank beer, they drank wine, I went for a 2 week ‘jolly up’ in Ibiza, they went riding and skiing, They went to dinner parties, which I had never heard of. They owned their own properties, had big bookcases, and so on!
I felt really different, weird, not part of it. No one was being remotely unwelcome, in fact everyone was so nice. They were very inclusive but I did become a bit of a curiosity!! But there was a reluctance by me to step fully into the conversation. My weekends were very different to theirs! No one was excluding me. It has stayed with me. I think of diversity and inclusion with this in mind.
You’re not missing anything IMHO other than that, in the context that you met all these diverse people you had at least one thing in common - a ‘neutral’ conversation starter of Camino which might have been absent or not apparent in other situations.I find it interesting that "diversity" is apparently mainly meant to be about skin colour....?
That's a bit confusing to me. The Camino always felt very diverse to me.
I met all kinds of people.
Rich and poor.
Young and old.
Religious and atheists.
(ex-) soldiers and pacifists.
From very fit and sportive to very unfit or even sick (from cancer to mental issues) or disabled, sitting in a wheelchair or walking with a prosthetic leg...
Men and women.
Straight and homosexual.
Highly educated and with very simple education.
Working class, the unemployed, artists, business people...
Different political views.
People from many different countries and even continents.
And yes, people with different kinds of skin colours, too.
Ect.
Is that not diverse?
Am I missing something?
No you are not missing anything. Diversity cover a multitude of things, many of which you have listed. I guess the title could be ‘sharper’ to indicate it is around one aspect of diversity, and maybe that could be emphasised more as the thread develops.I find it interesting that "diversity" is apparently mainly meant to be about skin colour....?
That's a bit confusing to me. The Camino always felt very diverse to me.
I met all kinds of people.
Rich and poor.
Young and old.
Religious and atheists.
(ex-) soldiers and pacifists.
From very fit and sportive to very unfit or even sick (from cancer to mental issues) or disabled, sitting in a wheelchair or walking with a prosthetic leg...
Men and women.
Straight and homosexual.
Highly educated and with very simple education.
Working class, the unemployed, artists, business people...
Different political views.
People from many different countries and even continents.
And yes, people with different kinds of skin colours, too.
Ect.
Is that not diverse?
Am I missing something?
This is true for me, too. The only conversations I have with strangers in my home town are when I see them on my local trail walking their dog. I usually stop them long enough to ask the dog's breed and say they are cute. We have a nice exchange of words before moving on.You’re not missing anything IMHO other than that, in the context that you met all these diverse people you had at least one thing in common - a ‘neutral’ conversation starter of Camino which might have been absent or not apparent in other situations.
If I passed them in the street in daily life I don’t think I would be motivated to strike up a conversation; but in a Camino context I’ve interacted with a more diverse range of people in a day than I would in a year at home.
I think that your long listing of the many ways in which we human beings are different and unique really highlights how the camino attracts a hugely diverse population. But the list also really reinforces for me the one feature in which we are mostly alike on the Camino. So much diversity in so many ways, in fact way more diversity than I typically find in my home environment — except for skin color.I find it interesting that "diversity" is apparently mainly meant to be about skin colour....?
That's a bit confusing to me. The Camino always felt very diverse to me.
I met all kinds of people.
Rich and poor.
Young and old.
Religious and atheists.
(ex-) soldiers and pacifists.
From very fit and sportive to very unfit or even sick (from cancer to mental issues) or disabled, sitting in a wheelchair or walking with a prosthetic leg...
Men and women.
Straight and homosexual.
Highly educated and with very simple education.
Working class, the unemployed, artists, business people...
Different political views.
People from many different countries and even continents.
And yes, people with different kinds of skin colours, too.
Ect.
Is that not diverse?
Am I missing something?
Talking with strangers on the Camino is an entitely different bird altogether.
I think in this particular thread, diversity is primarily about skin colour, based on the first post. (Note that the thread was retitled by a moderator; perhaps a more specific title could have been chosen.) Other threads on the forum have focused on other types of diversity and inclusion.I find it interesting that "diversity" is apparently mainly meant to be about skin colour....?
That's a bit confusing to me. The Camino always felt very diverse to me.
I met all kinds of people.
Rich and poor.
Young and old.
Religious and atheists.
(ex-) soldiers and pacifists.
From very fit and sportive to very unfit or even sick (from cancer to mental issues) or disabled, sitting in a wheelchair or walking with a prosthetic leg...
Men and women.
Straight and homosexual.
Highly educated and with very simple education.
Working class, the unemployed, artists, business people...
Different political views.
People from many different countries and even continents.
And yes, people with different kinds of skin colours, too.
Ect.
Is that not diverse?
Am I missing something?
I was recently on the GC enjoying the weather, visiting rellies and walking part of the coast. After a short 13klm walk dodging the rain I called into what had become my favourite coffee stop for a Mocha and I was served by a gorgeous young woman with an intriguing accent.I have, so many times. Just a normal part of a conversation amongst strangers embarked on a journey such as the Camino.
I can totally relate. This was how we felt most of the time. But then we just treated it as part of our Camino experience which in hindsight made our Camino that much more special. Buen Camino!I felt really different, weird, not part of it. No one was being remotely unwelcome, in fact everyone was so nice. They were very inclusive but I did become a bit of a curiosity!! But there was a reluctance by me to step fully into the conversation. My weekends were very different to theirs! No one was excluding me. It has stayed with me. I think of diversity and inclusion with this in mind.
Is that not diverse?
Am I missing something?
You are so right , thank youThank you for this definition.
In the past we also had threads about different social backgrounds, for example incomestatus. Seeing I do not want to hijack the valuable post from the OP I am not going into detail.
Especially as colour and incomestatus are not always linked ( might be in some some countries of course ).
What I just want to make clear is that as a cisgender white female , living in a country with decent social security and a job that makes me middleclass ( oh I dislike that description ) I know I am privileged.
I will never completely understand what it does to a person when you are treated different in a bar or club due to your colour. I will also not understand what it means to stand in line for a foodbank.
IMO these important themes are not about " woke " or " cancelling ".
Call me naive but I still believe we can solve lots of world issues with respect, listening to the other , kindness, compassion and simple and honest humanity.
Humour and context can help too...
If this is too much rambling, please mods, intervene.
For me, what works best is to ask people where they live
why is it important to know where people are "From"?
Based on our experience, it doesn’t really matter where one is from. As we walk the Camino, most peregrinos become attached to a group or groups of people we walk with or meet at the end of the day in our lodgings or in the same town. There is a spirit of community and camaraderie that allows us/peregrinos to form our own “Camino family”, and we are likely to remain in touch with each other even after the pilgrimage is over. After all, there is something about going through the same experiences, facing the same challenges, and overcoming all odds together that binds people who were once strangers. We met a lot of them, and we intend to stay in touch with some. Some of us even entertain the idea of doing another Camino together in the future.As a tour guide in Frankfurt, we get people joining our tours from all around the world. I gave up on guessing accents a long, long time ago. For me, what works best is to ask people where they live. Where they are from feels like a personal intrusion. If they want to tell me they are Spanish, even though they live in Iceland at some point during the tour, that is fine, other than that, why is it important to know where people are "From"? I like to know where they live. Do you like the heat of Singapore, or the snowy winters in Sweden, or Carnival in Brazil? People will tell you where they are from during conversation, you don't have to ask them.
It isn't usually important. Generally, none of our conversation starters are "important" topics. Both of those questions are interesting topics for conversation, and I don't see anything wrong with asking as long as we are not pushy about the answers.why is it important to know where people are "From"? I like to know where they live.
Because the conversation led that way. No one is suggesting that it is polite to walk up to a stranger and demand to know where they live or came from.Why would you ask the person serving you coffee where they are from?
Ask no questions, told no lies. A line from a weekly soap 40 years ago. How dull! I did learn from others about waiting, but in my case, I ask in order to show interest. My accent causes me to be asked many times every day and I have no problem giving an answer.Yeah, horses for courses, as they say.
If it was obvious that the person who I am talking to is outside their country of residence then I might ask where they live but if I am talking to a young woman serving me coffee then I think that it would be a bit creepy if I asked her where she lived.
What do you think?
Thanks for clearing that up, I thought that you were talking about people who were on the tours that you work for.Why would you ask the person serving you coffee where they are from?
We are talking about the people walking the Camino, not the people working in the cafe or bar.
Why would you not? A conversation can start from nearly anything.Why would you ask the person serving you coffee where they are from?
We are talking about the people walking the Camino, not the people working in the cafe or bar.
Why would you ask the person serving you coffee where they are from?
We are talking about the people walking the Camino, not the people working in the cafe or bar.
Then clearly you failed to consider them in context. Otherwise you would not have asked the question you did. They are every bit as relevant as your tour leader exampleEdit: yes, peterexpatkiwi, I read every single post on this thread. I always do before posting.
@Jodean, the conversation is going into all kinds of directions now, and replies can refer to quotes where the context is ignored or got lost as it is often case in online discussions. It is sometimes wise to just shrug it off. It will soon scroll off screen anyway.Why would you ask the person serving you coffee where they are from?
We are talking about the people walking the Camino, not the people working in the cafe or bar.
It's not closed to anyone. How would it be? It's there, many routes, many ways to travel it, many types of accommodations and variety of food and can be done on a tight budget as I have met many pilgrims who were on one when walking. It is indeed there for anyone to walk, but if one is not interested in walking it it's certainly nothing to wonder or ponder over. They just don't want to walk it. Nonetheless there's those that just cannot comprehend that and create angst and controversy where there was none.Is this really the case? Is the camino door closed to anyone at all? If you pay attention to threads such as "True Pilgrim", then it would seem that some narrow minded pedants may wish to exclude some potential pilgrims, but really how widespread is this attitude?
That's fine - don't wonder or ponder over it. But other people should be allowed to ponder as they please. That is what this thread is for.it's certainly nothing to wonder or ponder over.
I met a girl from Atlanta on the Camino in May. She had so many people saying hi to her. I said, how come everyone knows you? She said, because there's no other people of colour on the camino, you cant forget me!Hello! I was having a problem of how to formulate a title for this thread. Have been looking at one of my old blogs and noticed mentioning my coming across a person of colour (a gentleman). We discussed umbrellas because he had noticed that I was carrying the same umbrella as he was carrying. I would like to throw a question to our community. We mention Japanese, South Koreans(?) etc. But the question of colour never comes up. Apart from this once I have never seen any person of colour on any of the caminos I walked - have not yet walked the CF. Has anybody here met a person of colour on a camino?
I met a girl from Atlanta on the Camino in May. She had so many people saying hi to her. I said, how come everyone knows you? She said, because there's no other people of colour on the camino, you cant forget me!
You've made my day...I knew we'd be in there somewhere, just haven't hit the critical mass ! A highlight of my VDP was walking with Mohammed form Morocco - a regular caminoist - who, despite being paler than I, courtesy of burns suffered attempting a summer VDP, brought a huge amount of colour to everyone's experience through his wisdom and personality. Regrettably, I am unable to spend Christmas in Morocco with him this year. My own pre-conceived ideas of the Camino envisaged it full of the aged/retired and it was totally refreshing to experience the diversity of age and the colour that brought to the experience. I really feel the families formed of diverse backgrounds, ages and nationalities and everything that goes with that is the strength of the camino experience.Just for the sake of completeness: You are recorded,
You saw my statistics postYou've made my day...
As are we all. Thanks for staying with us and thank you for your magnificent posts. Buen camino.Praying to go on camino again: ASAP.
West Island? I feel a sheep joke coming......Well since we are pondering... I decided to look up the official statistics for 2023. So nearly half of all Pilgrims arriving at the Pilgrims office (and not wanting to get into the whole who picks up the piece of paper debate) are Spanish. In the recordable national statistics there are no African countries, no middle eastern countries and the only Asian country is Korea. Not surprisingly the bulk are European countries, the US, Canada and OZ rounded out with Argentina, Columbia and Brazil. So someone clever can figure out what this all means, but clearly there is clearly a common thread. I wonder if there are statistics for any other notable long distance walks to compare. Coming from a country not recorded, literally on the other side of the globe, I know time and money are a factor, but there are just significant groups of people who have no affinity with either the concept, history or ethno-religious connection. I wonder if pilgrims on the Haj, Tirthayatra or Shikoku have similar concerns ? https://oficinadelperegrino.com/en/statistics-2/
BTW I love asking people where they are from and do it regularly in my day job. A lot simpler than the next question - are you a resident or citizen ! I love hearing the stories that brought them to our country and finding out some kind of connection through travel and language. I often ask the origins of an unusual surname, and being a very small country, if they are connected to people elsewhere in the country. Its one of the first questions asked on the Camino and through that I have had some wonderful encounters finding people who are from the same obscure place in the world I've been. I've never knowingly had anyone take offence and nor have I taken it when asked. Maybe, as noted above it s a "kiwi"" thing but I would much rather be asked than mistaken for someone from the West Island - which happened regularly when I lived in the US to which I replied with a grin as they profusely apologised "Oh you Canadians always say that" !
Disclaimer: Humour used
Not at all...have you not read some of the postsYou saw my statistics post. I deleted it because I felt it was too boring and too irrelevant. But I am happy that you saw it and got something out of it .
Hang on I'm busy checking the rules before answering !West Island? I feel a sheep joke coming......
2022 stats : Israel 912 pilgrims, Japan 473, Indonesia 201, Malaysia 146, Hong Kong 106, Turkey 80, Armenia 76, Azerbaijan 68, Morocco 52, Angola 51, Lebanon 46, Thailand 37, United Arab Emirates 35, Iran 31, Saudi Arabia 28, Iraq 28, Swaziland 21, Egypt 19, Kenya 18, Cameroon 15 ... and so on and so forth.no African countries, no middle eastern countries and the only Asian country is Korea.
Yep....huge numbers ...I was referring to the major contributing countries as per the link. 18 amongst 443,000 over 12 months I think highlights the OPs observation. Fully aware there are other nationalities in minor numbers including my own. The micro is lost in the macro.2022 stats : Israel 912 pilgrims, Japan 473, Indonesia 201, Malaysia 146, Hong Kong 106, Turkey 80, Armenia 76, Azerbaijan 68, Morocco 52, Angola 51, Lebanon 46, Thailand 37, United Arab Emirates 35, Iran 31, Saudi Arabia 28, Iraq 28, Swaziland 21, Egypt 19, Kenya 18, Cameroon 15 ... and so on and so forth.
No, you said "none". And that's just wrong.Yep....huge numbers ...I was referring to the major contributing countries as per the link.
I think if you look back you will find that that was in one of Blister Bill's original posts, when all he had seen was the main statistics page - which indeed shows zero, ie, none.No, you said "none". And that's just wrong.
There are relatively few pilgrims from those places, but personally I am always happy to meet one of them on the Camino.
A small % is radically different to "none" -- and even the small and incomplete section of numbers that I quoted for 2022 is larger than 176. And that's just Africa. From the Middle East including Israel it's four figures ; and from non-South Korean Asia as well.And if @chinacats 'quick mental maths' is correct, 176 is a very very small percentage - less than 0,05 percent of my mental maths is correct!
Thanks Pete, unfortunately I think the point is now lost. If we are being pedantic I didn't say "none" as I am fully aware there are others walking the Camino having walked with people from a host of countries including South and North Africa, the Baltics, Scandinavia, Iceland, Israel, Japan and NZ that didn't make the @1% cut I was using before @Kathar1na pointed out how to find themI think if you look back you will find that that was in one of Blister Bill's original posts, when all he had seen was the main statistics page - which indeed shows zero, ie, none.
Was just picking on Kenya from that list wasn't tallying Africa as a whole.@Blister Bill
18?
I count 176 from the continent of Africa (very quick mental maths)
Where did the 18 come from?
Just answering points raised...after all you invited us to Ponder as we please.I think that the hairsplitting arguments about the statistics should stop.
Of course but it is the follow up question: But where are you really from? or But where are your parents from? or But where were you born? that can be insulting because you are essentially saying that for some reason (usually skin colour or accent) you don't think they are really "from" their answer to the first question. I was born in the US but have lived in Canada most of my life. I am white. No one ever asks me a follow up question. But there are many many people (so many it's a meme!) that find these questions insulting so I don't ask it because I don't want to insult anyone even unintentionally. ESPECIALLY since these questions are usually asked when you first meet someone and are treading carefully on lots of issues because you want to make a good impression. "But I didn't mean to insult anyone!" Well, if you knew that a lot of people find the follow up questions insulting and continue to ask those questions, then you did knowingly insult them and that is very rude.Is there anyone here who has never been asked at some point in an albergue or bar on the Camino where they are from?
I must admit I have yet to hear anyone ask someone ‘where are they really from’? Has anyone else? There was a high profile instance of this in the UK recently along these lines but that’s about it!Of course but it is the follow up question: But where are you really from? or But where are your parents from? or But where were you born? that can be insulting because you are essentially saying that for some reason (usually skin colour or accent) you don't think they are really "from" their answer to the first question. I was born in the US but have lived in Canada most of my life. I am white. No one ever asks me a follow up question. But there are many many people (so many it's a meme!) that find these questions insulting so I don't ask it because I don't want to insult anyone even unintentionally. ESPECIALLY since these questions are usually asked when you first meet someone and are treading carefully on lots of issues because you want to make a good impression. "But I didn't mean to insult anyone!" Well, if you knew that a lot of people find the follow up questions insulting and continue to ask those questions, then you did knowingly insult them and that is very rude.
Sorry about all the "you"s. I don't mean you specifically, Lindsay53, just those that don't understand why they shouldn't ask the follow up questions.
I must admit I have yet to hear anyone ask someone ‘where are they really from’? Has anyone else? There was a high profile instance of this in the UK recently along these lines but that’s about it!
Blimey! Thanks for sharing! Very effective video! Thankfully I have yet to come across anyone saying to anyone ‘where are you really from’ , but I am well versed in folks making assumptions about nationality!Here's a short comedic video about "but where are you really from?"
Sadly I have, worse still back home in NZ. By somebody who was himself an immigrant of just a few years standing.I must admit I have yet to hear anyone ask someone ‘where are they really from’? Has anyone else? There was a high profile instance of this in the UK recently along these lines but that’s about it!
Hello David, without any desire to beat a dead horse, as a genealogist what is of primary interest is family roots, not a city of birth of a living person. I tell people I have an interest in family history, a particular interest in where family names come from, etc. My questioning is applied evenly for those people who have names I have never heard before and when the opportunity for a conversation presents itself.I think it depends upon context. It us one thing to dig deeper in a genealogical inquiry. It is another if the white guy next to you answers "Chicago" and the matter is left there, then the white woman says "Milwaukee" and no more questions are asked, but you say "San Francisco" and the questions continue. That may be a sincere interest in an individual's history, but it is not an interest that is evenly applied.
Yes, last summer on the Meseta. My husband and his two new friends were waiting for an albergue to open. Resting out of the sun, they ordered Aquarius in a bar. The bartender made conversation. Where are you from? My husband, white, answered with the US. His fellow pilgrims, of color, answered with Canada. That's when the bartender said no and asked where they were really from. It hurt them, although they also loved the pilgrimage very much, both before that point and after. The wonderful moments were certainly numerous and outnumbered that incident to them. I don't really know what else to say, when so many other valuable thoughts have been added on this thread. I am sensitive to it on the Camino now, intentional or not, and it is not just media stories.Thank you but I meant had anyone here heard it as opposed to it being a media story!
Sadly, there are many places in USA where that would happen. In contrast, I have twice found myself the only white in a black church and been treated like part of the family.I then grabbed a sausage from the BBQ and my companion went back to his group of friends by the door. I was standing, chewing on my sausage and thinking that this was a nice friendly organisation when I looked up and noticed a man of colour enter the room.
I hadn't noticed before but everyone else in the room was white. The coloured guy was hesitant and so I realised that he was also new like me and here to check out the organisation.
I was thinking, you are about to be surprised at how welcoming they are when I noticed that the man who had been so welcoming to me had spotted this new guy but instead of going over to welcome him he turned his back on him instead.
The new guy walked further into the room and I was sure that someone of the many friendly people who I had met would surely go over to him and say hello. But no, all the people who had greeted me warmly ignored the new guy.
For what it's worth, the full-year statistics for 2021 are https://catedral.df-server.info/est/peregrinaciones2021.pdfWell since we are pondering... I decided to look up the official statistics for 2023. So nearly half of all Pilgrims arriving at the Pilgrims office (and not wanting to get into the whole who picks up the piece of paper debate) are Spanish. In the recordable national statistics there are no African countries, no middle eastern countries and the only Asian country is Korea.
On the first day of my only visit so far to the USA a bank worker in Havre (Montana) told me that she loved my Scottish accent. I replied that it was the only one I could do and I'd been practicing for years to get it just right.I am often amused and curious when I hear different accents, especially on the Camino, so sometimes I am inclined to ask the question "Where are you from with your interesting accent?
I would love to hear your accent, especially since it is perfect.I replied that it was the only one I could do and I'd been practicing for years to get it just right.
I didn't say that it was perfect. Still work in progress....I would love to hear your accent, especially since it is perfect.
On a visit to Australia I won full marks from a young Canadian woman for correctly spotting her nationality from her accent. Apparently I was the first person in three months who hadn't instantly assumed she was from the USA. Having a mother-in-law raised in Toronto might have helped.Always getting mistaken on my accent west coast USA. I have a very London/southern accent but often mistaken for Australian! Very common!
One extra vote for Uganda! My wife is Ugandan and last week we completed the Camino from Lisbon to SDC in 22 days. In March this year we completed the Primitivo. A person's colour means nothing to us - and it made no difference at all to our experience (a refreshing change from some other parts of the world).On my last Camino Frances walk in September I met two women colleagues walking together - one Belgian and the other from Uganda. But the very fact that the Ugandan woman so easily comes to my mind a couple of months later probably reflects that she was something of a rarity amongst the pilgrims I met.
The very first person I spoke to on my only visit so far to Scotland (Edinburgh) was the clerk at the front desk of my hotel. With a sly wink I said: "Wow I love your Scottish accent what part are you from?"On the first day of my only visit so far to the USA a bank worker in Havre (Montana) told me that she loved my Scottish accent. I replied that it was the only one I could do and I'd been practicing for years to get it just right.
I never assume I know, or try to guess an accent. I only ask the person where they are from if I am curious. It's up to them to answer however they choose. I've never yet had anyone seem offended and it often has led to further enjoyable conversations.The very first person I spoke to on my only visit so far to Scotland (Edinburgh) was the clerk at the front desk of my hotel. With a sly wink I said: "Wow I love your Scottish accent what part are you from?"
His reply: "Czech Republic".
The very first person I spoke to on my only visit so far to Scotland (Edinburgh) was the clerk at the front desk of my hotel. With a sly wink I said: "Wow I love your Scottish accent what part are you from?"
His reply: "Czech Republic".
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