Compostela: Electric Bikes Excluded?

[Kathar1na]

But what does seem to be required is a commitment of time.
Three to four hours of normal walking (5k/hour) for five days, makes 100km.
Three to four hours of normal sailing (10k/hour) for five days, makes 185km.
Three to four hours of normal cycling (15k/hour) for five days, makes 200km.
It doesn't seem to matter how much physical effort you put in: as long as you commit at least five days of your time to your pilgrimage, you can apply for a Compostela.

Maybe it does seem like that but what do we know of the thinking behind the rules for obtaining a Compostela ...?

From the FAQ page of the Oficina del Peregrino:

You must choose the starting point according to the number of days you want to spend on the Way, in the knowledge that an average of 25 km are covered per day on foot, 40 km on horseback and 70 km by bike, although each individual has their own pace and shorter or longer distances can be covered depending on your physical condition.​

​

So that makes, in the opinion of whoever had this put on their website, an average of 4 days on foot, 2 1/2 days on horseback and 3 days by bike to cover the required minimum distance ... and bang goes the theory ...

Source: https://oficinadelperegrino.com/en/ufaq/where-does-the-way-of-st-james-start-and-finish/

 

[Murk]

Well, that should teach me to say things without looking up the official sources...

 

[Kathar1na]

Well, that should teach me to say things without looking up the official sources...

It is totally reasonable to assume that 5 days to 1 week is the required minimum time for a longer distance pilgrimage. I myself was surprised when I saw the text on the website of the Oficina del Peregrino. I had not been looking for it, I had tried to find again what they (once) had written about esfuerza and the Compostela but I could not find it.

 

[RJM]

I will be on the Frances again this summer. I hope not to share the path with any motorized bicycle, be it electric or internal combustion.

 

[Flog]

It probably wouldn't make a great deal of difference anyway if the PO changed the distance requirement for e-bikes. Plenty of big fat, middle aged men claim compostelas, supposedly having cycled all the way to SdC under their own steam, fooling nobody but themselves. Same goes for bus tourists who don't even get off the bus to get their own sello. It is what it is now.

 

[Lindsay from Scotland]

You have clearly never cycled an E-Bike.

I have two e-bikes and one of them is an e-tandem, but I would not dream of using them on the Camino Frances

 

[CWBuff]

My husband has several E-bikes and he cannot walk the distances I do. We go south for two months every winter and the 25 miles of state park trails we frequent have had exponential growth among seniors in the past two years...there will be no turning back whether we like it or not. The number of stand up E-scooters I saw in Italy, especially in Rome, on busy streets were scary to see amidst traffic, and I wondered how many accidents have escalated in the last few years.

I remember seeing electric scooters all over Paris in 2019, but last year they seemed to be mostly gone. I think that some cities cracked down on their use because people would just leave them laying around anywhere - on the sidewalk or the street. And many users were very inexperienced.

All of th above and to add the unfortunate rise in crime. its very convenient to grab a lady's purse while flying by on one of these contraptions

I think "bike back" may be US usage thing. When the bikes were coming through groups of walkers I was hollering "bike back" to warn others. I had a couple of people tell me they had never heard that before.

Just like other Yanks - never heard it. most common phrases I heard are "on your left\right" or "behind you"

 

[good_old_shoes]

I've had a collision with a bike on the Camino.

I was lucky that it was a young, fit cyclist on a lightweight mountain bike, who chose to half crash into a fence instead of completely running over me.

Result was a few scratches for the cyclist and a big scare and slightly bruised knee for me, but nothing else.

Can't even imagine a similar collision with a heavy e-bike and an inexperienced / physically impaired cyclist. That would certainly have been a trip to the hospital for both of us.

The cyclist did shout, but didn't slow down enough, and I didn't have enough time to react. Didn't know which way to jump, chose the wrong one in the split -second that I had to make a decision. Having a giant backpack on the back and having walked 35km in the heat already didn't help either.

Shouting "to your right", "to your left", "Bike approaching!", "#%$£#!" is not really helpful on the Camino, unless you slow down significantly and are prepared to get off the bike to pass the walker, since many pilgrims will not understand a word because of language barrier, or will be lost in thought, or too tired to react, or maybe too slow to react in time because they're older, injured, ect.

I have no problems whatsoever with shared routes for walkers/bikes at all, as long as there's respect for the weaker party.

But e-bikes are a risk, not only for walkers but the e-cyclists also. I'd be happy to see those banned from hiking trails.

The problem is that e-bikes are often used by people with little experience and / or those who choose the e-bike because they think their health / fitness level doesn't allow walking / cycling with a regular bike. That kind of person is often unable to truly control the e-bike, and there's a huge risk for injury / accidents.

For those who can't walk / cycle, taking a bus, car or train to Santiago is always an option. You won't get a Compostela, but it will still be a pilgrimage if that's what's your intention is when going to Santiago.

So, no e-bikes needed on the trails.

Some people of course would still cheat and claim to not have used an e-bike, but maybe at least some would consider using different means of transportation if it would be very clearly advertised (in all major languages, in all credentials, and on the pilgrim's offices website) that using e-bikes does not qualify for a Compostela.

One can dream!

 

[Paladina]

Plenty of big fat, middle aged men claim compostelas, supposedly having cycled all the way to SdC under their own steam, fooling nobody but themselves.

Don't underestimate big fat middle-aged men! A few years ago, I was surprised at the number of very large cyclists attending a cycle touring conference, but I was even more surprised to find that they had regularly undertaken far longer and more arduous excursions than I ever have.

 

[SabsP]

Don't underestimate big fat middle-aged men! A few years ago, I was surprised at the number of very large cyclists attending a cycle touring conference, but I was even more surprised to find that they had regularly undertaken far longer and more arduous excursions than I ever have.

Exactly!

Living in cycling country I see groups of cyclists ( racing bikes and no assistance ) every weekend, some of them obviously with less perfect BMI and they manage really well.
Without a doubt they could cycle a Camino and finish it. And could get their Compostela.

In general : we do not "fatshame" here on this forum some larger pilgrims on foot. So no need to do this for cyclists either.

 

[henrythedog]

Don't underestimate big fat middle-aged men!

May I be the first to add my weight to that most astute comment.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

@fkmueller , that is one heck of an introductory posting. Welcome to the forum!

 

[Flog]

Don't underestimate big fat middle-aged men!

Oh, I don't! When a decidedly unfit looking man's credencial shows he's cycled 500 km from Burgos in three days, and when asked in a friendly way if he did it on a bicicleta electrica and he insists indignantly 'No, solo bicicleta normal',

Then I see him and his friends outside on the street ten minutes later, taking photos with compostelas, the three of them with high -tech electric bikes..

Loads if such stories of folks fooling themselves, but no matter, it's their camino..

 

[VNwalking]

I plan to follow the hiking route and expect I will still be pushing the bike up more than a few hills, especially on the first days and near the end.

A wonderful post.
I wish all cyclists (no matter what their BMI - it's irrelevant) were as considerate as you, @fkmueller. Unfortunately a small number make an underserved bad name for everyone. Wishing you a safe, wonderful, and very satisfying camino!

 

[Goyo]

Shouting "to your right", "to your left", "Bike approaching!", "#%$£#!" is not really helpful on the Camino, unless you slow down significantly and are prepared to get off the bike to pass the walker, since many pilgrims will not
understand a word because of language barrier, or will be lost in thought, or too tired to react, or maybe too slow to react in time because they're older, injured, ect.

And let’s not forget that there are those who like to walk with headphones, earbuds, boomboxes or whatever. I do not, and will not change my ways when walking my Camino. I have enough music running thru my head to last a lifetime of Caminos, prefer to take in the sounds of my surroundings wherever I walk, engage in a bit of (ok, a lot of) conversation with myself, as well as random absent and/or invented characters, and practice situational awareness to the extreme. I’d like to be able hear someone coming up behind me on any kind of bike, but will also do plenty of looking over my shoulder as an added level of precaution in order to avoid getting blindsided. Hope that’s enuf

 

[WGroleau]

E-bikes make you go faster

They allow you to go faster. Doing so when inappropriate is what I meant by "the idiocy of the cyclist."

 

[Kathar1na]

I was looking at the new credencial I just got at the Pilgrim's Office for my next Camino. Reading the information inside I came across this:


I had understood that it was possible to get a Compostela if one rides an ebike, but maybe not?

Another thread than this one made me look into some aspects connected to electric bikes in Spain and the views of the Cathedral's Pilgrim Office. Going back to about 2019, I can say with confidence that individual opinions about the intentions of the Pilgrim Office vary considerably. I've also looked at articles in Spanish media at the regional and national level, mostly also from 2019. It appears to be a fact that the staff and volunteers at the Pilgrim Office do not check which kind of bicycle (traditional or pedal assisted) had been used by a pilgrim. Fact is also that their policy on this topic is nowhere explained on their website, and up to now it was also not mentioned let alone explained in their credencial.

I have come to the conclusion that it has been the policy of the Pilgrim Office since at least about 2019 that the use of an electric bike (what is defined as an electric bike in this context in Spain, namely a vehicle looking like a bicycle that does not require insurance, does not require a licence, with a motor/regulation system that allows speeds of max 25 km/h, not belonging to classification L1e-B etc etc and is legally allowed to ride under the same conditions as a traditional bike) does not generally qualify for a Compostela since at least 2019. Despite many claims to the contrary that have been made online including on this forum.

BTW, I'd be curious to see a copy of the whole text on this page of the new version of the credencial. No particular reason, just curious. Thank you to anyone who can provide it. There is no hurry.

 

[Kathar1na]

I saw the text copy-pasted below on a Belgian website. I think it explains the language about electric bikes / e-bikes better than the usually more technically oriented descriptions. The article uses two terms: Classic Electric Bicycle and Fast Electric Bicycle.

It appears that it is unclear to (only some?) readers what the Cathedral of Santiago / its Pilgrim Office means by the term bicicleta electrica in the new version of the credencial.

The article focuses on the situation in Belgium but applies similarly to the situation in Spain. This applies in particular to the applicable traffic code in Spain.

The classic electric bicycle​

​

When people talk about an electric bike, they usually mean the two-wheeler that was exempted from type approval by the EU in Directive 2002/24/EC and has been equated with the ordinary bicycle in the Belgian traffic code for years. With this two-wheeler, the assistance speed is limited to 25 km/h and the support to 250 W. Due to the unexpected success of these ‘classic’ electric bikes, most European bike manufacturers were not worried about bikes exceeding these speed and power limits. It was mainly the Swiss, prompted by their geography, who experimented with higher power levels.​

​

The fast electric bicycle​

​

Swiss experimentation, the availability of American and Asian products and customer demand for even more motor assistance at higher speeds led to some tentative attempts by German and Dutch manufacturers to push the speed and power limits. These fast electric bikes (also known as ‘speed pedelecs’ or ‘high-speed bikes’) often assist up to a speed of 45 km/h and generally have a (maximum continuous) power output of between 250 and 750 watts. For many commuters, this level of assistance finally offers a worthy alternative to the car for covering longer distances. The fast electric bike is therefore clearly on the rise.​

For info: No matter how American and Asian producers label their product, if they want to bring it to market, i.e. sell it in the EU market, it will be categorised according to EU law.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Given the increased use and I'd say "normalisation" of e-bikes on the Camino, and given that traditional bicigrinos are keen anyway to travel longer rather than shorter distances, should the minimum bike distance to qualify for a Compostela be increased to 400K ?

 

[Flog]

What would it matter? People believe they're fooling everyone when all the while they're just fooling themselves. Let them claim what they want. It's their hollow victory.

 

[Kathar1na]

What would it matter? People believe they're fooling everyone when all the while they're just fooling themselves. Let them claim what they want. It's their hollow victory.

I could not agree more. And it is not just me ...

This thread makes it appear as if it is something new that Compostelas are not awarded to pilgrims who use electric bicycles. And electric bicycle does mean the "classic" pedal assisted electric bicycle with a speed limit of 25 km/h when assisted by motor.

From all I can read (other than on this forum) I see that it has been the policy of the Oficina del Peregrino since at least 2019 to not award Compostelas to pilgrims who use an electric bike for the last 200 km. An article on Gronze.com from 2019 is just one of numerous examples of sources that I consider as fairly reliable. Anton Pombo, a well-known figure in Camino circles, called the Pilgrim Office at the time and they confirmed this policy. Tomás Sánchez, the owner of the company Bicigrino which is a leading bicycal rental company and pioneer in specialising in the area of the Camino de Santiago by bike (www.bicigrino.com) had a conversation with the Dean of the Cathedral of Santiago who confirmed this policy to him. At the time Tomás Sánchez also made the proposal to extend the number of kilometres required to 300 km or 400 km, twice as many as for conventional bikes, but the proposal was not accepted.

Source: https://www.gronze.com/articulos/bicicletas-electricas-en-camino-santiago-17021 - published on 16 January 2019.

The only news in 2024 is the fact that this policy is now also included in written form in the credencial.

The Pilgrim Office trusts the pilgrim who arrives and claims to have completed the Camino on a conventional bike, see this quote:

We [i.e. Anton Pombo] called the Pilgrim Office, and they confirmed that the Compostela is not given to those who come by electric bicycle. Then, however, they admit that there is no way of verifying this circumstance, as it would be unfeasible for each bicigrino to bring their bicycle to the door of the Pilgrim Office and have someone come out, as if they were an inspector from the International Cycling Union, to carry out an examination of the vehicle. Therefore, they have to trust the pilgrim who arrives and claims to have completed the Camino on a conventional bicycle. ​

​

By all accounts, this issue appears to have already been settled for quite a while.

 

[Skinnybiker]

Do the eBicigrinos wish to claim a compostela? Who knows? As a bicigrino myself the compostela is unimportant mainly because I feel riding a bike is so much easier than the suffering peregrinos experience. When / if I ever walk a Camino then I shall demand a compostela. El ciclista flaco.

 

[michelle grech]

Maybe we should revamp the rules or create Compostela police since there are so many people who have so much time to ponder about this! Should someone who walks for a month carrying their back pack and sleeping in Albergues get the same Compostela as those who walk the last 100 kms, taxi their bags and sleep in hotels? Let’s live and let live!

 

[JabbaPapa]

By all accounts, this issue appears to have already been settled for quite a while.

As far as the current (and "recent" going back to the 1990s) state of affairs goes, you are naturally quite right -- however these things are not really so set in stone, as the distance requirements for horseback (and donkey) pilgrims were reduced (seemingly in the early 21st Century) from 200K to 100K.

I don't know about others, but a doubling of the distances for e-bicigrinos could be a positive change -- and not just for we "purist" grognards, but also for those pilgrims themselves.

As to verifying the types of bikes being used, this could quite well be done at the Albergue level along the Way.

 

[Flog]

As to verifying the types of bikes being used, this could quite well be done at the Albergue level along the Way.

Serious, non rhetorical question:
What should hospis do with this information? Refuse them a bed? Stamp their credencial 'tramposo'? Inform the Pilgrims Office?


Besides, most private accomodation providers will take anyone's money..

 

[JabbaPapa]

Serious, non rhetorical question:
What should hospis do with this information? Refuse them a bed? Stamp their credencial 'tramposo'? Inform the Pilgrims Office?

Just ensure that the correct type of bike is mentioned on the credencial. I'm certainly not suggesting that certain pilgrims should be excluded !!

 

[Kathar1na]

Tomás Sánchez, the owner of the company Bicigrino which is a leading bicycal rental company and pioneer in specialising in the area of the Camino de Santiago by bike (www.bicigrino.com) had a conversation with the Dean of the Cathedral of Santiago who confirmed this policy to him. At the time Tomás Sánchez also made the proposal to extend the number of kilometres required to 300 km or 400 km, twice as many as for conventional bikes, but the proposal was not accepted.
Source: https://www.gronze.com/articulos/bicicletas-electricas-en-camino-santiago-17021 - published on 16 January 2019.
The only news in 2024 is the fact that this policy is now also included in written form in the credencial.

I just had a look at Tomás Sánchez' business website and the e-bikes that they hire. They are very clear: Recordamos que con este tipo de vehiculos en la oficina del peregrino no podremos obtener la Compostela o diploma acreditativo del camino de Santiago.

"Este tipo de vehiclos" means in this case their offer of e-bikes 625 kW. I guess it is not necessary to point out that 625 kW and 250 W are different things - not because of the difference in numbers but because of the difference between Watt hours and Watt and what this means for the type of vehicle in concrete terms. Well, basically the difference between a battery and a motor.

While looking for further precise language and info - the batteries are made by Bosch - I saw this comment: Nevertheless, the term pedelec has not become established in everyday use. Most people talk about the e-bike although they mean the pedelec. That is why we also use the term "e-bike" in connection with our pedelec range.

This refers to language used about e-bikes in German and in Germany. I am pretty certain that the same applies to language used about e-bikes and bicicleta electrica in Spanish and in Spain. To discuss this topic in any meaningful way, one needs to know, or understand, what is meant by an author or a speaker in their native language! The Cathedral's credencial is written in Spanish for use in Spain! This needs to be clarified urgently??? Ask the Oficina del Peregrino for clarification and I would not be surprised if they look at you in bewilderment, thinking how come that this guy does not know or understand what we mean?

 

[Bedspring]

I was looking at the new credencial I just got at the Pilgrim's Office for my next Camino. Reading the information inside I came across this:
View attachment 171087

I had understood that it was possible to get a Compostela if one rides an ebike, but maybe not? As a walker, I'm very happy to see this, even though there will always be people without basic honesty claiming a Compostela by riding them anyway. Ebikes are a different level of scary altogether in terms of collision risk.

How many people on the Camino have actually been injured by a person on an e hike.
Euro velos 1 and 3 overlap the Camino in places.
I definitely do not think people on an e bike should qualify for a compostella, and not convinced people on any kind of bicycle.
As a person who is also a keen cycle tourist I would say all the cycles should be equipped with a proper old fashioned bicycle bell, that sounds like a bicycle bell, and not the tink tink things that do not