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Thank you! dougfitz for the additional information, it is highly appreciated.
Pilgrim attire (including shorts) are fine, but tank tops and bare midriffs are inappropriate and men must always remove caps and hats. Backpacks are fine, set to the side. Some churches in Europe still require women to wear skirts, but these are getting fewer. Attendance at Mass is certainly welcome. Holy Communion is only for practicing Catholics. Wandering around and sightseeing while Mass is underway is hugely disrespectful. Photographs during Mass definitely not.
I've never encountered a church that requires skirts . . . but often the requirement to cover shoulders and knees (long shorts for men OK). Sarongs are one lightweight way to ensure you can meet these requirements. Churches on the Camino are used to pilgrims - how we look and how we smell
remove your hat if you're a man - fine for women to keep wearing
I am not sure of that. Every man must visit a sinagogue with something on his head but every man shouid not visit a catholic church with something on his head.
As an Anglican I would never expect an observant Jew or Sikh to remove their headwear when visiting a church. It is very clear that such headwear is an integral part of their own religious traditions and identity and that there is no intent to cause offence by wearing it. I would be very surprised and deeply disappointed to hear that any Catholic church would insist that such religious headwear is removed by visiting men of another faith.
Do you think that an observant jewish would visit a catholic church? If so, for me they are welcome with the kippa.
In Spain is different. The jewish here are almost all sephardim. I never saw someone wearing orthodox clothes on the street and very few with kippa.
But one of them bought me coffee afterwards.
Yes I know that Askenazim jewish have different forms of judaism but not Sephardim jewish out of Israel so far. But if we continue with this interesting issue we absolutely derail the OP.
I am Jim's wife, and am a Roman Catholic. I attended a parochial school where we were instructed that all females should have a covering for their head while in church. During mid-adulthood, the rules were relaxed to make it so that wearing a hat or other covering was optional for females. Somehow, that evolved into a situation where wearing hats in church is frowned upon for females, no matter what type, and usually the frowning is done by much-younger-than-me ushers and other such church attendants. That's in the United States. Does this hold true in Spain also?
So hats off for both sexes must be a worldwide phenomenon for Catholic churches. Thank-you for your response!
Gracias Padre! for your very thoughful reply, the effort is appreciated.@SantiagoFromColombia Welcome to the forum.
I think if you are concerned enough to ask the question, you can be confident that you are respectful enough not to have to worry!!
I am a Catholic priest.
The rules about women and men and headgear while in church were formalised in the Code of Canon Law in 1917, which required women to have their heads covered, and men not to, during the liturgy. This was stated in canon 1262. There was no formal rule prior to 1917, though there was long tradition,
The Code of Canon Law was revised in1983 and the new Code replaces the old Code. This canon of the old code is not in the new code and is technically 'abrogated'. So there is now no rule in effect for those who attend the liturgy, male or female.
This change rather followed practice. Many women had stopped wearing headgear (in UK and Ireland, USA, perhaps less so in more Latin southern Europe) once the mass in the vernacular was introduced after the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s, even though the Council did not speak on the specific question of attire.
In 69 years of attending Mass I can never remember anyone being sanctioned for not wearing headgear or for wearing headgear. I think it would be quite extraordinary, though traditional practice may vary in different cultures.
I think men wearing hats in church doesn't happen often (in my own culture) because men don't wear hats much any more - in my culture. In the days when they did (when I was young) I think men used to take their hats off when going indoors anyway.
The present Pope, Francis, would be wholly against any kind of behaviour which made anyone feel unwelcome in a church, eitther the church building or the church community. He has frequently said that churches should be open at all times to all.
I did once get in trouble in a church on the Camino Portugues on a Sunday morning when I sat in the seat which apparently belonged to one of the 'regular' local ladies. And I had put my sopping wet hat on the seat which belonged to another of the regulars. But I was happy to move, although they remained a bti suspicious.
I think for anyone a basic approach of common sense and respect for others is sufficient. I know that in Italy is still to be found occasionally signage aboout very short and revealing dress. Some places will lend you a skirt or top to cover, but I think this happens less now.
Anyone is welcome to stay throughout a service if they so wish. To have a basic orientation that you would not wish to offend will take you a long way. No one is going to get exercised by whether you stand or sit or kneel at the right time. If in doubt, follow the majority. If you are weary and want to sit throughout, no one will be alarmed.
I note that the OP asks specifically about Spain. That is important - apart from the univeral rules, the local culture and practice does need to be respected. But that is not difficult.
Thank you, father, for your comprehensive report on this-- much appreciated view on this matter and that varied cultural practices have influenced this issue over the ages. It helps to know that you can't be far off the mark to follow what the locals are doing.@SantiagoFromColombia Welcome to the forum.
I think if you are concerned enough to ask the question, you can be confident that you are respectful enough not to have to worry!!
I am a Catholic priest.
The rules about women and men and headgear while in church were formalised in the Code of Canon Law in 1917, which required women to have their heads covered, and men not to, during the liturgy. This was stated in canon 1262. There was no formal rule prior to 1917, though there was long tradition,
The Code of Canon Law was revised in1983 and the new Code replaces the old Code. This canon of the old code is not in the new code and is technically 'abrogated'. So there is now no rule in effect for those who attend the liturgy, male or female.
This change rather followed practice. Many women had stopped wearing headgear (in UK and Ireland, USA, perhaps less so in more Latin southern Europe) once the mass in the vernacular was introduced after the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s, even though the Council did not speak on the specific question of attire.
In 69 years of attending Mass I can never remember anyone being sanctioned for not wearing headgear or for wearing headgear. I think it would be quite extraordinary, though traditional practice may vary in different cultures.
I think men wearing hats in church doesn't happen often (in my own culture) because men don't wear hats much any more - in my culture. In the days when they did (when I was young) I think men used to take their hats off when going indoors anyway.
The present Pope, Francis, would be wholly against any kind of behaviour which made anyone feel unwelcome in a church, eitther the church building or the church community. He has frequently said that churches should be open at all times to all.
I did once get in trouble in a church on the Camino Portugues on a Sunday morning when I sat in the seat which apparently belonged to one of the 'regular' local ladies. And I had put my sopping wet hat on the seat which belonged to another of the regulars. But I was happy to move, although they remained a bti suspicious.
I think for anyone a basic approach of common sense and respect for others is sufficient. I know that in Italy is still to be found occasionally signage aboout very short and revealing dress. Some places will lend you a skirt or top to cover, but I think this happens less now.
Anyone is welcome to stay throughout a service if they so wish. To have a basic orientation that you would not wish to offend will take you a long way. No one is going to get exercised by whether you stand or sit or kneel at the right time. If in doubt, follow the majority. If you are weary and want to sit throughout, no one will be alarmed.
I note that the OP asks specifically about Spain. That is important - apart from the univeral rules, the local culture and practice does need to be respected. But that is not difficult.
Indeed. And on the Camino Frances the churches and priests are often proactive in encouraging people outside of the catholic faith. such as myself, to feel welcome and attend the evening mass and participate in the pilgrim blessing.
In fact, the same applies to men (and women, of course, although beside the point in this case) who are in church on military, police, fire brigade or ambulance duties, for example. They are not expected to remove their headgear, a part of their uniform and a symbol of their office, although they often do so.
How bizarre! Did you understand his reasoning? Or was he not quite all there?
Is this rule (and others given above) from the bible?
My experiences in Spain and elsewhere when on camino is a pilgrim is welcome in a church wearing what your everyday walking clothes with backpack and poles. And given that I wear what many might see as a skirt (and what others do call the kilt) I have yet to be told cross-dressers are not welcome.
I was accused of not showing respect to the Virgin Mary. Apparently because of a shady hat on a hot day. I suppose he might have thought I was a man, I was wearing trousers and a shirt. I left because I would have been rude if I had stayed, and it wasn't the time or place for a loud argument.
I haven't seen anyone claim a biblical origin for their advice on this. @timr provided a longer explanation earlier about the history of its place in Catholic canon law, where it seems for some time it was a formal rule of the Catholic Church. As such, it was observed by my parents in my youth.
That was my point. There was no origin given by @palmah and others before. It was just a personal view expressed (as I read the posts) as binding on all.
Southern European church attire is far more frequently "just normal clothes" than in the Anglosphere, and if you are in Pilgrim Kit, far from disrespectful -- you will most often be respected for wearing it along your pilgrimage.
There is an old Mediaeval indult allowing pilgrims to wear the "signs" of their pilgrimage during Mass -- which are staff, scrip (nowadays backpack), and hat. Technically, as I read it, only those Catholics having been to Compostela can benefit from it ; though as a matter of course, it's normally better not to insist on it.
How odd. I suggest that the almost no-else would be so fine grained about a distinction that excluded religious or any other ceremonial headwear. But if you did, why did you suggest that your ball cap and beanie where hats? Neither has a brim. One has a peak, the other - normally nothing. Clearly you accept brimless headwear, so why not a turban, kippah or any other form of brimless headwear?
No, in a general way, I only consider headwear with a brim to be a hat, anything with a peak to be a cap and then don't bother lumping anything else under some generic label. But I also know that meanings shift, and the word, hat, has acquired the more general sense over my lifetime of being almost any headwear.
The "what happened" discussion is one I would like to have with you over a cup of coffee, but I suspect is out of bounds for this forum (Rule #2).
