Change of route: Pamplona to Logrono, from original SJPDP to Pamplona

[ZoeyCat]

Hello All!
I am a nervous first timer trying the first hike on CF from September 24-28, flying from NY area to Paris.
Original plan was SJPDP to Pamplona, but then heard it will be rainy during this time. Worrying about the 1st challenging steep climb combined with wet road condition, and my lack of experience, i want to switch to hike the section from Pamplona to Logrono.
Does it make sense? Your advise will be apprecited.

 

[LeslieC]

Totally. There's nothing to say you have to start in St. Jean (there's even a thread on here on that very subject).

Pamplona and Logrono are lovely, and I have very good memories of what's between them. Enjoy your walk!

 

[trecile]

The weather will be similar regardless of where you start.

 

[KFH]

Assuming your intention is to do the CF in sections, it makes perfect sense.

The travel to/from is not super easy but is manageable, the walks are interesting and enjoyable and will be bookended by two nice places to visit.

 

[Tincatinker]

Hello All!
I am a nervous first timer trying the first hike on CF from September 24-28, flying from NY area to Paris.
Original plan was SJPDP to Pamplona, but then heard it will be rainy during this time. Worrying about the 1st challenging steep climb combined with wet road condition, and my lack of experience, i want to switch to hike the section from Pamplona to Logrono.
Does it make sense? Your advise will be apprecited.

Nope. No sense in it at all. How do you propose to get from Paris to Pamplona? Continue with your plan to make your way to St Jean. Walk via Valcarlos, save yourself from walking over that unnecessary hill. The weather will be what it is. It’ll just be more unpleasant on that unnecessary hill

 

[ZoeyCat]

Original plan was:
Landing Paris CDG at 1pm. Take train 4p to Bordeaux and arrive Bayonne 10pm and stay overnight. Next day get to SJPDP and stay overnight. Start walking 1st day to Orisson, 2nd day to Roncesvalles, 3rd to Zubiri, 4th to Pamplona.
But really not sure if i can handle the steep climbing combined with storming weather......
Thanks everyone for your thoughts!

Nope. No sense in it at all. How do you propose to get from Paris to Pamplona? Continue with your plan to make your way to St Jean. Walk via Valcarlos, save yourself from walking over that unnecessary hill. The weather will be what it is. It’ll just be more unpleasant on that unnecessary hill

 

[KFH]

Nope. No sense in it at all. How do you propose to get from Paris to Pamplona?

(chuckle)

How is that ^^^

different from this:

"Original plan was SJPDP to Pamplona"

???

It's the same issue. Does getting from Pamplona to Paris produce similar incredulity?

No one bats an eye when people go from Pamplona to SJPdP. Does something change going the other way? Do those buses and taxis stay in St Jean and sit on the side of the road rusting never to return?

Or she could just take a longer train ride through San Sebastian from Bayonne. Or another bus. Adding Logrono is the thing which adds more to it.

Starting from SJ isn't for everyone. See that recent thread about the descent into Zubiri.

If I thought that first several days was something I wasn't up to, I'd gladly start in Pamplona.

Personally, I'd just change my flight into MAD instead of CDG or do a round trip from Paris to Madrid and use the trains back and forth Madrid to Pamplona then Logrono to Madrid.

 

[ZoeyCat]

I can't change flights to/from Paris CDG. I also bought a exit flight from Bilbao to Paris for Plan A.
Now my plan B to do Pamplona to Logrono, i was thinking about train to Bayonne 1st night, next day to San Sebastian, then to Pamplona.
Madrid is a nice thought! I see evening flights available from CDG on my arrival day. Train to Pamplona. Looks easier than my thoughts. Great! Thanks KFH.
Is Valcarlos on the way from Orisson to Roncesvalles, to avoid that Hill (what is it)? @Tincatinker

 

[ZoeyCat]

Assuming your intention is to do the CF in sections, it makes perfect sense.

Yes. Still working full time. Can only take 1 week off for vacation. Planning to do sections of Camino.

 

[J Willhaus]

My favorite part of the CF is Pamplona to Burgos. Enjoy!

 

[J Willhaus]

Yes, Orisson is a few km out of SJPDP on the way to Roncesvalles. There is another way through Valcarlos which let's you split the walk more evenly.

 

[C clearly]

Is Valcarlos on the way from Orisson to Roncesvalles

No. If you look at a map or app, you'll see that there are two routes from SJPP to Roncesvalles: one through Orisson (with a very steep hill near the start), or one through Valcarlos.

Even so, it is a perfectly reasonable choice to start walking in Pamplona.

 

[KFH]

I can't change flights to/from Paris CDG. I also bought a exit flight from Bilbao to Paris for Plan A.
Now my plan B to do Pamplona to Logrono, i was thinking about train to Bayonne 1st night, next day to San Sebastian, then to Pamplona.
Madrid is a nice thought! I see evening flights available from CDG on my arrival day. Train to Pamplona. Looks easier than my thoughts. Great! Thanks KFH.
Is Valcarlos on the way from Orisson to Roncesvalles, to avoid that Hill (what is it)? @Tincatinker

The already-purchased flight from Bilbao makes it easier on the Logrono part. There are direct trains and buses from Logrono to Bilbao. Also from Pamplona to Bilbao, if slightly longer.

So that part is set whichever starting point you choose.

You could take a one-way from CDG to MAD then a train to Pamplona.

Or if you wanted to see SJPP you could go there from Bayonne as planned, then taxi or bus to Pamplona. You likely won't ever be back to St Jean but you will likely be in Madrid a few times based on your section plan. But if you go to SJ with the intention of transferring to Pamplona you will have major pangs of wishing you had started there, regardless of what would have lied ahead on that trail.

It all goes back to your decision on whether or not to start in St Jean and which of those two starting sections suit you best. There are people who wish they hadn't started there and plenty of people who are overjoyed they started there.

You likely already added the time factor into this decision. This is the first of your sections trips and you will reach a particular city or town. If next year you have another week you will start from that town and go one week further down the Camino and so on, depending on how long your vacations will be in the future.

Starting from SJ adds another year to your schedule. That may be fine, and indeed it must have been fine since you had originally planned it that way, but one thing for sure is that starting from Pamplona gets you finished with the Frances one year sooner.

Either way, you aren't crazy for thinking of this as an option, although it is possible you are overly nervous about your original plan and are overthinking things.

 

[ZoeyCat]

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, and especially for your generous contribution @KFH.

I am not sure what i will get from this very first solo Camino experience. I hope i will fall in love, and will continue with many more sections in the future. I don't care too much about get to the end, and the certificate. I care more about the journey, and catching the Camino spirit. So i may repeat sections or jumping around different routes.

I am in the process of rebooking accommodations. Still nervous but very excited at the same time.

Nice to have you all here helping!

 

[ZoeyCat]

Hopefully by tomorrow I will finalize between these 2 plans:

*Plan A will allow me to see a little bit of Bayonne, San Sebastian, Pamplona, and Bilbao.
D1 Paris CDG - Bayonne
D2 Donostia / San Sebastián
D3 Pamplona
D4 Puente de la Reina - 24km
D5 Estella - 22km
D6 Sansol – 25.5km
D7 Logrono – 20.4km
D8 Bilbao
D9 Fly to Paris
D10 Fly home

*Plan B will allow me to focus more on the Camino, even a little more relaxed pace.
D1 Paris CDG - Madrid MAD
D2 Pamplona
D3 Puente de la Reina - 24km
D4 Estella - 22km
D5 Sansol – 25.5km
D6 Viana – 12km
D7 Logrono - 8.7km
D8 Bilbao
D9 Fly to Paris
D10 Fly home

 

[trecile]

Both plans look good, but I vote for a more relaxed Camino.

 

[Walkerooni]

And don't forget to factor in the day lost by flying east. You'll be at 11 days, which to most employers will be a long week off.

 

[andycohn]

Original plan was:
Landing Paris CDG at 1pm. Take train 4p to Bordeaux and arrive Bayonne 10pm and stay overnight. Next day get to SJPDP and stay overnight. Start walking 1st day to Orisson, 2nd day to Roncesvalles, 3rd to Zubiri, 4th to Pamplona.
But really not sure if i can handle the steep climbing combined with storming weather......
Thanks everyone for your thoughts!

Your arrangements will fit right in with starting on Pamplona! No need to go to San Sebastian first. From Bayonne there's an 8:15 AM bus directly to Pamplona, arriving at 9:44 AM. ALSA is the operator. $34. Easy to book on Omio.com. Frankly, it's really stupid to do that climb in a heavy rain, and be miserable. Even if it's raining in Pamplona at the same time, you won't be up in the mountains and the weather will be more bearable. Pamplona to Logrono makes for a great first Camino, and I bet you'll get hooked. Personally, I never listen to anyone when they tell me what I SHOULD do or what I MUST do. Do what feels right for you. And Buen Camino!

 

[ZoeyCat]

Thank you so much for encouraging, and providing valuable tips. I greatly enjoy and appreciate your input here!

 

[CWBuff]

Both plans look good, but I vote for a more relaxed Camino.

I hope @trecile means Plan B and if so then I wholeheartedly concur.
Viana is a nice place to stop and heck only short hop next day to Logrono....

Good luck and Buen Camino

P.S. you MUST do Calle Laurel Tapas Crawl. No do tapas - no catch Camino Spirit!!!

 

[trecile]

I hope @trecile means Plan B and if so then I wholeheartedly concur.

Yes, I meant Plan B.

 

[User71]

Hello All!
I am a nervous first timer trying the first hike on CF from September 24-28, flying from NY area to Paris.
Original plan was SJPDP to Pamplona, but then heard it will be rainy during this time. Worrying about the 1st challenging steep climb combined with wet road condition, and my lack of experience, i want to switch to hike the section from Pamplona to Logrono.
Does it make sense? Your advise will be apprecited.

If you do start in Pamplona, I’d advise that you at least walk the Camino east until you cross the Magdalena Bridge and then enjoy the entry walk back into the city. Not quite the same after a long hike, and Burlada was basically urban sprawl, but Pamplona.

You can also start from Pamplona, and if the weather is good, taxi out to Zubiri and enjoy the hike in with minimal gear.

 

[Bert45]

This is a long thread, and I haven't read every comment. If it hasn't been said already, let me be the first to say: There is no such thing as bad weather, only the wrong clothes. So if you have good wet-weather gear you should be fine.
If you do walk from SJPdP, and if it is raining when you get to Alto de Erro, or if it has recently rained, take the road to Zubiri. The "path" (it doesn't really justify the word) from Alto de Erro to Zubiri is steep, narrow, and dangerous. I made it, but only just.

 

[KFH]

Hopefully by tomorrow I will finalize between these 2 plans:

*Plan A will allow me to see a little bit of Bayonne, San Sebastian, Pamplona, and Bilbao.
D1 Paris CDG - Bayonne
D2 Donostia / San Sebastián
D3 Pamplona
D4 Puente de la Reina - 24km
D5 Estella - 22km
D6 Sansol – 25.5km
D7 Logrono – 20.4km
D8 Bilbao
D9 Fly to Paris
D10 Fly home

*Plan B will allow me to focus more on the Camino, even a little more relaxed pace.
D1 Paris CDG - Madrid MAD
D2 Pamplona
D3 Puente de la Reina - 24km
D4 Estella - 22km
D5 Sansol – 25.5km
D6 Viana – 12km
D7 Logrono - 8.7km
D8 Bilbao
D9 Fly to Paris
D10 Fly home

I agree with the others-- If you gave me the choice, I would easily say Plan B. And I love the idea for you to slow it down before Logrono. You could mix and match many places for a slow down between Los Arcos and Logrono, and with an earlier entry to Logrono you've set yourself up for a wonderful experience.

 

[KFH]

This is a long thread, and I haven't read every comment. If it hasn't been said already, let me be the first to say: There is no such thing as bad weather, only the wrong clothes. So if you have good wet-weather gear you should be fine.
If you do walk from SJPdP, and if it is raining when you get to Alto de Erro, or if it has recently rained, take the road to Zubiri. The "path" (it doesn't really justify the word) from Alto de Erro to Zubiri is steep, narrow, and dangerous. I made it, but only just.

I was thinking Zubiri would be the problem more so than getting up to Roncevalles. I'm a life long hiker so I sometimes don't think about what things are like for others unless I am walking with them.

This thread got me thinking and it's something for our OP to consider:

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/the-dreaded-descent-into-zubiri.88629/#post-1291701

 

[ZoeyCat]

If you do start in Pamplona, I’d advise that you at least walk the Camino east until you cross the Magdalena Bridge and then enjoy the entry walk back into the city. Not quite the same after a long hike, and Burlada was basically urban sprawl, but Pamplona.

You can also start from Pamplona, and if the weather is good, taxi out to Zubiri and enjoy the hike in with minimal gear.

Love this idea. Will try it. Thank youuuuu!

 

[DenWhite]

I can't change flights to/from Paris CDG. I also bought a exit flight from Bilbao to Paris for Plan A.
Now my plan B to do Pamplona to Logrono, i was thinking about train to Bayonne 1st night, next day to San Sebastian, then to Pamplona.
Madrid is a nice thought! I see evening flights available from CDG on my arrival day. Train to Pamplona. Looks easier than my thoughts. Great! Thanks KFH.
Is Valcarlos on the way from Orisson to Roncesvalles, to avoid that Hill (what is it)? @Tincatinker

Another option is train(tvg) or fly Paris to Barcelona then train to Pamplona via Zaragosa.

 

[Forward]

Hello All!
I am a nervous first timer trying the first hike on CF from September 24-28, flying from NY area to Paris.
Original plan was SJPDP to Pamplona, but then heard it will be rainy during this time. Worrying about the 1st challenging steep climb combined with wet road condition, and my lack of experience, i want to switch to hike the section from Pamplona to Logrono.
Does it make sense? Your advise will be apprecited.

Yes its makes sense, I would personally start in Pamplona if worried, great walk on either route, In the rain from SJPDP to Zuburi not much fun. Enjoy

 

[ZoeyCat]

Or if you wanted to see SJPP you could go there from Bayonne as planned, then taxi or bus to Pamplona.

I like the idea of routing through SJ to Pamplona. I see 2 options online:

• SNCF train 11:20am-12:21pm 11,60 €.
• Omio bus 11:30am-12pm $3.63, by "BlaBlaCar" carpooling. Is this reliable? So cheap and short.

But, which is more enjoyable? I remember some positive comments on the train ride but forgot where.
Then will bus SJ to Pamplona 1:45p-3:30p (Conda $28 on Omio).
Just want to have some reassurance from you folks here. Thanks!

 

[ZoeyCat]

NM. I just finalized train to SJ from Bayonne, then bus to Pamplona.

 

[WalkingLester]

Starting in Pamplona is a great idea. I walked the Frances 4 times. Once from SJPP, it was great. But, the other times I started from Pamplona. PNA is easier to get to and the section to Burgos is wonderful.

 

[J Willhaus]

Make sure the bus is still running to Pamplona at this time. The direct bus usually just runs in the summer months.

 

[Kellyt]

Hello All!
I am a nervous first timer trying the first hike on CF from September 24-28, flying from NY area to Paris.
Original plan was SJPDP to Pamplona, but then heard it will be rainy during this time. Worrying about the 1st challenging steep climb combined with wet road condition, and my lack of experience, i want to switch to hike the section from Pamplona to Logrono.
Does it make sense? Your advise will be apprecited.

I walked from SJPP to Roncesvalles in rainy weather, and quite frankly, it was miserable. There was no view to see whatsoever due to poor visibility. And isn't that the major draw of walking over the Pyrannes? I was also freezing cold even though it was almost July. I imagine it will be even colder this time of year. The stretch between Orrison and Roncesvalles can be very steep in sections, and felt very treacherous in the rain. A man fell that day and broke his femur. Awful. Not to mention there is absolutely no place to stop for the restroom. You will have to squat, in the wet, muddy woods, and hope you don't slide down the hill. There is no place for food or drink, other than the food truck at the top. But no restroom there. Similarly, the walk into Zubiri is steep and can be quite treacherous in the rain. In poor weather, starting from Pamplona is an excellent idea. You will have a much better experience, especially if you only have a few days. Make the most of them. No one is handing out badges for being wet, cold, and physically exhausted on a their Camino.

 

[WalkingLester]

I walked from SJPP to Roncesvalles in rainy weather, and quite frankly, it was miserable. There was no view to see whatsoever due to poor visibility. And isn't that the major draw of walking over the Pyrannes? I was also freezing cold even though it was almost July. I imagine it will be even colder this time of year. The stretch between Orrison and Roncesvalles can be very steep in sections, and felt very treacherous in the rain. A man fell that day and broke his femur. Awful. Not to mention there is absolutely no place to stop for the restroom. You will have to squat, in the wet, muddy woods, and hope you don't slide down the hill. There is no place for food or drink, other than the food truck at the top. But no restroom there. Similarly, the walk into Zubiri is steep and can be quite treacherous in the rain. In poor weather, starting from Pamplona is an excellent idea. You will have a much better experience, especially if you only have a few days. Make the most of them. No one is handing out badges for being wet, cold, and physically exhausted on a their Camino.

This is very good advice

 

[ZoeyCat]

I walked from SJPP to Roncesvalles in rainy weather, and quite frankly, it was miserable. There was no view to see whatsoever due to poor visibility. And isn't that the major draw of walking over the Pyrannes? I was also freezing cold even though it was almost July. I imagine it will be even colder this time of year. The stretch between Orrison and Roncesvalles can be very steep in sections, and felt very treacherous in the rain. A man fell that day and broke his femur. Awful. Not to mention there is absolutely no place to stop for the restroom. You will have to squat, in the wet, muddy woods, and hope you don't slide down the hill. There is no place for food or drink, other than the food truck at the top. But no restroom there. Similarly, the walk into Zubiri is steep and can be quite treacherous in the rain. In poor weather, starting from Pamplona is an excellent idea. You will have a much better experience, especially if you only have a few days. Make the most of them. No one is handing out badges for being wet, cold, and physically exhausted on a their Camino.

Your experience shared here is exactly what i was worrying about, and what i couldn't handle.

 

[CWBuff]

But @ZoeyCat - the weather is what the weather is! One you can always take it slow.... perhaps leave couple of hours earlier and just take your time or you could go ValCarlos!!!!
I mean lets say that somehow you resolve this situation (maybe start somewhere else et al).... and you continue on your meeery Camino Way and you get hit with rain along the way - be it downhilll to Zubiri or ascend to Alto Perdon (or even the descend of the same).... or walking on flat anywhere else.... what are you going to do?
Just adapt because you will have to.... and its not "so bad'..... really!!!! Just have confidence in yourself!

besides, what kind of a cat are you - afraid of little rain?!?!??!

 

[ZoeyCat]

My fully activated plan B, with all your generous help here.
Rain or shine, I am with peace. I hope it will turn out as rewarding as i expected.
Thank you all

D1 arrive Paris CDG - train to Bayonne
D2 Pamplona: train to SJPDP, then bus to Pamplona
D3 Puente de la Reina - 24km
D4 Estella - 22km
D5 Los Arcos – 21km
D6 Viana – 18km
D7 Logrono -14km
D8 Bilbao
D9 Fly to Paris
D10 Fly home

 

[KFH]

My fully activated plan B, with all your generous help here.
Rain or shine, I am with peace. I hope it will turn out as rewarding as i expected.
Thank you all

D1 arrive Paris CDG - train to Bayonne
D2 Pamplona: train to SJPDP, then bus to Pamplona
D3 Puente de la Reina - 24km
D4 Estella - 22km
D5 Los Arcos – 21km
D6 Viana – 18km
D7 Logrono -14km
D8 Bilbao
D9 Fly to Paris
D10 Fly home

Sounds like a great time. Just make sure your D2 fits together correctly and confirm the bus departure-- and that the hours available to spend in St Jean are worth doing it that way.

If the bus and time schedule end up not working, you can always spend the $ to do a car hire SJ to Pamplona (book ahead of time to be safe). If as JW warned there is no direct bus then you'll HAVE to do a car OR swap out SJ for Pamplona.

And as mentioned earlier-- be prepared for major pangs of Missing Out as you meet many who will be heading up the hill the next day. Just keep in mind WHY you are making that decision. Those feelings will go away once you get to Pamplona, but you will feel quite a tug in SJ.

Not to get you thinking around and around again, but maybe it is better just to get straightish to Pamplona instead of SJ in the middle. Although yes SJ will be cool to see, getting to Pamplona with for sure enough time to get a good look around and also a good nights rest after all that travel sounds pretty darn good.

When doing this in sections you likely won't be back to Pamplona. Next time you will fly into Madrid and take the train to Logrono (via Zaragoza).

The time after that it will be Madrid to Burgos or Madrid to Leon etc, moving further west away from Pamplona.
-----------------------------------------
Also-- checking on your D1: You get in early enough to CDG then to Montparnasse to catch the train to Bayonne?