Camino del Norte - 50 days from May 1st 2019

[nickpellatt]

Greetings fellow pilgrims!

I have recently completed the Camino del Norte, taking 50 days from Irun > Santiago > Muxia > Fineseterre > Santiago, a route that my compestella recorded as 1057km. I captured my thoughts in Haiku poetry, and the ebook link is in this thread: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/camino-del-norte-hiking-with-haiku.63234/

But now I have the link out of the way, I thought I would post some observations, and will of course look forward to answering any queries.

Footwear: I walked in a pair of Adidas Terrex trek shoes, boots are definately not needed, but the second half of the trip involves a heck of a lot of road walking. If you have room in your pack for a second pair of shoes, a pair of trail runners would be perfect I think. Actually, trail runners might be better as a first choice too!

Albergues: A fairly good choice in most places. Not too much of a panic about finding a bed, and during the period I walked, no real need for a 'bed race'. A good number of donation based places, plus municipal albergues, typically at 6 euros.

Other pilgrims: Based on my previous Frances / Portugues and Finesterre Camino's, this one does seem to have a much younger group of pilgrims, with our friends from Germany being the most typical of these younger walkers. Note, it can seem very very quiet during the day, this meant many hours of walking alone for me ... but it wasnt as quiet as I thought, 40 people started from the municipal in Irun on the day I started.

Sleeping bag: I packed a 2 season bag, but used it less than 10 times on the 50 night trip. The majority of places did have blankets, and if I went again (route and time of year), I would certainly take a liner only, which would be lighter and smaller.

Guide Books: Breirley doesnt publish a book for this route, so I used a Ciccerone guide. The accomodation listing was NOT to be relied upon, a few of the places dont exist anymore, or no longer accept pilgrims (An example being the Youth Hostel in Zaurautz). This guide also had a number of silly route ideas, with several 40km days listed. The 'Buen Camino' app seemed to be a popular choice on the route, but be warned ... the apps do not always have up-to-date and correct mapping. An app called 'Camino Places' misdirected me en-route to Laredo taking me on a rather dangerous mountain path, and whilst I didnt use 'Buen Camino' mapping on the Norte, I did use it on the way to Muxia and it also took me away from the waymarked path.

Waymarking: I think it is excellent. There isn't really any need to use an app as the marked route is very easy to follow 98% of the time.

Safety and security: From Irun, I seemed to spend a lot of time alone, walking through very secluded country lanes, but a lot of young female pilgrims also did this and I didnt hear any adverse comments about safety. Hospitalero's were very mindful and warned people a lot about security in the albergues and the importance of keeping valuable safe. I dont remember this from other Camino's, but other than hearing a second hand story about mobile phones being stolen, I would recommend this route as being safe.

Cost: This route doesnt have an abundance of coffee shops en-route selling cooked breakfasts etc (easy for me to spend money like this) so a very realistic budget is up to 30 euros a day I think. Some of the younger pilgrims were managing on 20 per day.

Overall, this was my faourite camino of the routes I have done ... the scenery genuinely gave me a number of 'WOW' moments, although these do tend to disappear in the 2nd half of the trip. I joined the French route two days before Santiago, an the number of pilgrims is x10 at that point so you do need to mentally prepare for that. The younger people can make this a very sociable camino if thats what you want .. but if you want a quieter trip it also suits as you can walk alone a lot.

I'm happy to answer any queries anyone may have ...

and once again, that link to my Haiku poetry and Camino photo ebook!

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/camino-del-norte-hiking-with-haiku.63234/

 

[Marc S.]

Thank you for sharing your experience. Brings back good memories, as I loved the Norte and would love to walk it again in the future. Interesting to read you met many younger walkers. Did not experience this as such, but well, these are all 'snapshots' I guess. Do remember there were far less native English speakers on the Norte (as compared to the Frances and Portuguese) - but that was a good way to practice French, German and Spanish.

As for the the roadwalking (and for those considering walking the Norte in future) there are some coastal alternatives with less road walking. It is all in this thread: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/coastal-alternatives-to-the-nortes-asphalt.49578/

 

[Mark T17]

Hi Nick,
I'm planning a similar pilgrimage in 2022, but diverting via the Primitivo. Did you consider taking the Primitivo route? Why did you prefer to stay on the Norte route?

Thanks M

 

[Mark T17]

Sorry one more thing, 50 days seems like a fairly relaxed pace. Did you have many rest days? What were your average km per day?

 

[Dan T]

Greetings fellow pilgrims!

I have recently completed the Camino del Norte, taking 50 days from Irun > Santiago > Muxia > Fineseterre > Santiago, a route that my compestella recorded as 1057km. I captured my thoughts in Haiku poetry, and the ebook link is in this thread: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/camino-del-norte-hiking-with-haiku.63234/

But now I have the link out of the way, I thought I would post some observations, and will of course look forward to answering any queries.

Footwear: I walked in a pair of Adidas Terrex trek shoes, boots are definately not needed, but the second half of the trip involves a heck of a lot of road walking. If you have room in your pack for a second pair of shoes, a pair of trail runners would be perfect I think. Actually, trail runners might be better as a first choice too!

Albergues: A fairly good choice in most places. Not too much of a panic about finding a bed, and during the period I walked, no real need for a 'bed race'. A good number of donation based places, plus municipal albergues, typically at 6 euros.

Other pilgrims: Based on my previous Frances / Portugues and Finesterre Camino's, this one does seem to have a much younger group of pilgrims, with our friends from Germany being the most typical of these younger walkers. Note, it can seem very very quiet during the day, this meant many hours of walking alone for me ... but it wasnt as quiet as I thought, 40 people started from the municipal in Irun on the day I started.

Sleeping bag: I packed a 2 season bag, but used it less than 10 times on the 50 night trip. The majority of places did have blankets, and if I went again (route and time of year), I would certainly take a liner only, which would be lighter and smaller.

Guide Books: Breirley doesnt publish a book for this route, so I used a Ciccerone guide. The accomodation listing was NOT to be relied upon, a few of the places dont exist anymore, or no longer accept pilgrims (An example being the Youth Hostel in Zaurautz). This guide also had a number of silly route ideas, with several 40km days listed. The 'Buen Camino' app seemed to be a popular choice on the route, but be warned ... the apps do not always have up-to-date and correct mapping. An app called 'Camino Places' misdirected me en-route to Laredo taking me on a rather dangerous mountain path, and whilst I didnt use 'Buen Camino' mapping on the Norte, I did use it on the way to Muxia and it also took me away from the waymarked path.

Waymarking: I think it is excellent. There isn't really any need to use an app as the marked route is very easy to follow 98% of the time.

Safety and security: From Irun, I seemed to spend a lot of time alone, walking through very secluded country lanes, but a lot of young female pilgrims also did this and I didnt hear any adverse comments about safety. Hospitalero's were very mindful and warned people a lot about security in the albergues and the importance of keeping valuable safe. I dont remember this from other Camino's, but other than hearing a second hand story about mobile phones being stolen, I would recommend this route as being safe.

Cost: This route doesnt have an abundance of coffee shops en-route selling cooked breakfasts etc (easy for me to spend money like this) so a very realistic budget is up to 30 euros a day I think. Some of the younger pilgrims were managing on 20 per day.

Overall, this was my faourite camino of the routes I have done ... the scenery genuinely gave me a number of 'WOW' moments, although these do tend to disappear in the 2nd half of the trip. I joined the French route two days before Santiago, an the number of pilgrims is x10 at that point so you do need to mentally prepare for that. The younger people can make this a very sociable camino if thats what you want .. but if you want a quieter trip it also suits as you can walk alone a lot.

I'm happy to answer any queries anyone may have ...

and once again, that link to my Haiku poetry and Camino photo ebook!

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/camino-del-norte-hiking-with-haiku.63234/

Great post, thanks for sharing. I'm also planning on doing del Norte in a pair of Adidas Terrex trail runners, so i'm glad to hear they were sufficient for you. I'll have a good look through your photos this evening!

 

[nickpellatt]

Great post, thanks for sharing. I'm also planning on doing del Norte in a pair of Adidas Terrex trail runners, so i'm glad to hear they were sufficient for you. I'll have a good look through your photos this evening!

The hking shoe was fantastic to be fair, not waterproof ... but the people with Goretex told me that wasn't waterproof either.

I had no issues with my feet until around day 35, when I started to feel a lot of pain accross the top of one foot, tendonitis I guess. I attribute this to walking on the roads so much on the latter part of the route. A trail runner, or even a regular running shoe, would have been better.

 

[nickpellatt]

Hi Nick,
I'm planning a similar pilgrimage in 2022, but diverting via the Primitivo. Did you consider taking the Primitivo route? Why did you prefer to stay on the Norte route?

Thanks M

I didn't want to take the Primitivo, as I think that can be done as another adventure. I would return to walk the Primitivo, but if I had taken that route this time, it would be very unlikely I would return to 'finish' the regular Norte route. That was my reasoning.

 

[nickpellatt]

Sorry one more thing, 50 days seems like a fairly relaxed pace. Did you have many rest days? What were your average km per day?

I was 50 years old in April, and one of my goals to celebrate this was a 50 day holiday. Day 1 was flying out, day 50 was flying home, then 48 days walking.

I didnt have any rest days.

I think the maximum I walked in one day was up to 30km. I can't recall walking longer. Some days were very short though, especially later on during the Muxia / Fineseterre part. My whole route was the Norte from Irun to Santiago, then on to Muxia, Finesterre AND walking back to Santiago. The Compostella records that as 1057km.

 

[lt56ny]

Greetings fellow pilgrims!

I have recently completed the Camino del Norte, taking 50 days from Irun > Santiago > Muxia > Fineseterre > Santiago, a route that my compestella recorded as 1057km. I captured my thoughts in Haiku poetry, and the ebook link is in this thread: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/camino-del-norte-hiking-with-haiku.63234/

But now I have the link out of the way, I thought I would post some observations, and will of course look forward to answering any queries.

Footwear: I walked in a pair of Adidas Terrex trek shoes, boots are definately not needed, but the second half of the trip involves a heck of a lot of road walking. If you have room in your pack for a second pair of shoes, a pair of trail runners would be perfect I think. Actually, trail runners might be better as a first choice too!

Albergues: A fairly good choice in most places. Not too much of a panic about finding a bed, and during the period I walked, no real need for a 'bed race'. A good number of donation based places, plus municipal albergues, typically at 6 euros.

Other pilgrims: Based on my previous Frances / Portugues and Finesterre Camino's, this one does seem to have a much younger group of pilgrims, with our friends from Germany being the most typical of these younger walkers. Note, it can seem very very quiet during the day, this meant many hours of walking alone for me ... but it wasnt as quiet as I thought, 40 people started from the municipal in Irun on the day I started.

Sleeping bag: I packed a 2 season bag, but used it less than 10 times on the 50 night trip. The majority of places did have blankets, and if I went again (route and time of year), I would certainly take a liner only, which would be lighter and smaller.

Guide Books: Breirley doesnt publish a book for this route, so I used a Ciccerone guide. The accomodation listing was NOT to be relied upon, a few of the places dont exist anymore, or no longer accept pilgrims (An example being the Youth Hostel in Zaurautz). This guide also had a number of silly route ideas, with several 40km days listed. The 'Buen Camino' app seemed to be a popular choice on the route, but be warned ... the apps do not always have up-to-date and correct mapping. An app called 'Camino Places' misdirected me en-route to Laredo taking me on a rather dangerous mountain path, and whilst I didnt use 'Buen Camino' mapping on the Norte, I did use it on the way to Muxia and it also took me away from the waymarked path.

Waymarking: I think it is excellent. There isn't really any need to use an app as the marked route is very easy to follow 98% of the time.

Safety and security: From Irun, I seemed to spend a lot of time alone, walking through very secluded country lanes, but a lot of young female pilgrims also did this and I didnt hear any adverse comments about safety. Hospitalero's were very mindful and warned people a lot about security in the albergues and the importance of keeping valuable safe. I dont remember this from other Camino's, but other than hearing a second hand story about mobile phones being stolen, I would recommend this route as being safe.

Cost: This route doesnt have an abundance of coffee shops en-route selling cooked breakfasts etc (easy for me to spend money like this) so a very realistic budget is up to 30 euros a day I think. Some of the younger pilgrims were managing on 20 per day.

Overall, this was my faourite camino of the routes I have done ... the scenery genuinely gave me a number of 'WOW' moments, although these do tend to disappear in the 2nd half of the trip. I joined the French route two days before Santiago, an the number of pilgrims is x10 at that point so you do need to mentally prepare for that. The younger people can make this a very sociable camino if thats what you want .. but if you want a quieter trip it also suits as you can walk alone a lot.

I'm happy to answer any queries anyone may have ...

and once again, that link to my Haiku poetry and Camino photo ebook!

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/camino-del-norte-hiking-with-haiku.63234/

I walked end of September/October 2018 and will take a look at your blog. I think your description of the route and guides was accurate. I used Wise Pilgrim for albergues and Gronze.com. I also used Wise Pilgrim GPS for some alternative routes. Much quieter for sure and yes there was so many wonderful young people on this route. I was often referred to as Grandpa. Many were from Germany and alot of them were doing really wonderful things with their lives. When the route turned inland between the Pilgrims leaving for the Primitivo and others who just had to get back to was REALLY quiet. There were many nights I was alone or with just a couple of other pilgrims and walked alone during the day. Walked in trail runners, as I always do, and they were perfect. Especially on the roads. It did get cold some nights towards the end and a couple of albergues were colder inside the room than outside. I only had a silk sleep sack so some nights I slept with all my clothes on. The route is soooooooo beautiful and quiet and you want solitude walking much of the day but still want to meet wonderful people in the evenings and want spectacular views the Norte is the ticket!!! There are some tough hills for us older folks but doable and well worth it.

 

[nickpellatt]

Thank you It56ny - A few German's told me that because their country is 90% landlocked, the coastal route holds extra appeal. That perhaps account for why a lot of German's walk this route, I was amazed by how many younger pilgrims there were tho

 

[john newman]

Hi Nick
The mountain route to Laredo was the highlight of my del Norte, scary though it was for me. I’m pleased I did it and I bet you are too?
John

 

[nickpellatt]

It was also one of my greatest days, but I was taken this route unexpectedly and walked it alone and carrying a backpack. Luckily the weather favoured me, and I wasn't suffering from any injury or discomfort.

If it had rained, or had been raining .. or I was carrying an injury or discomfort, it would have been very, very dangerous.

This was one of the few times I used an app and followed the route it gave. Far better, easier and safer to rely on waymarked Camino paths.

 

[pelerine]

I didn't want to take the Primitivo, as I think that can be done as another adventure. I would return to walk the Primitivo, but if I had taken that route this time, it would be very unlikely I would return to 'finish' the regular Norte route. That was my reasoning.

That was my reasoning too when I walked the Norte. For another adventure if I were you, I would combine the Salvador with the Primitivo - start in Leon and continue on the Primitivo from Oviedo. I walked both separately, the Primitivo at age 73, and the Salvador at 75. So they are doable. So if I had time after several others I want to try I would chose this combination as my favourite one and do it again.

Buen camino for whatever you do next!

 

[john newman]

Hi Nick
I did it in good weather too. What a blast. People were saying “es no el Camino de Santiago” to an old man with a pack.
Ultreya!

 

[Canche]

Greetings fellow pilgrims!

I have recently completed the Camino del Norte, taking 50 days from Irun > Santiago > Muxia > Fineseterre > Santiago, a route that my compestella recorded as 1057km. I captured my thoughts in Haiku poetry, and the ebook link is in this thread: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/camino-del-norte-hiking-with-haiku.63234/

But now I have the link out of the way, I thought I would post some observations, and will of course look forward to answering any queries.

Footwear: I walked in a pair of Adidas Terrex trek shoes, boots are definately not needed, but the second half of the trip involves a heck of a lot of road walking. If you have room in your pack for a second pair of shoes, a pair of trail runners would be perfect I think. Actually, trail runners might be better as a first choice too!

Albergues: A fairly good choice in most places. Not too much of a panic about finding a bed, and during the period I walked, no real need for a 'bed race'. A good number of donation based places, plus municipal albergues, typically at 6 euros.

Other pilgrims: Based on my previous Frances / Portugues and Finesterre Camino's, this one does seem to have a much younger group of pilgrims, with our friends from Germany being the most typical of these younger walkers. Note, it can seem very very quiet during the day, this meant many hours of walking alone for me ... but it wasnt as quiet as I thought, 40 people started from the municipal in Irun on the day I started.

Sleeping bag: I packed a 2 season bag, but used it less than 10 times on the 50 night trip. The majority of places did have blankets, and if I went again (route and time of year), I would certainly take a liner only, which would be lighter and smaller.

Guide Books: Breirley doesnt publish a book for this route, so I used a Ciccerone guide. The accomodation listing was NOT to be relied upon, a few of the places dont exist anymore, or no longer accept pilgrims (An example being the Youth Hostel in Zaurautz). This guide also had a number of silly route ideas, with several 40km days listed. The 'Buen Camino' app seemed to be a popular choice on the route, but be warned ... the apps do not always have up-to-date and correct mapping. An app called 'Camino Places' misdirected me en-route to Laredo taking me on a rather dangerous mountain path, and whilst I didnt use 'Buen Camino' mapping on the Norte, I did use it on the way to Muxia and it also took me away from the waymarked path.

Waymarking: I think it is excellent. There isn't really any need to use an app as the marked route is very easy to follow 98% of the time.

Safety and security: From Irun, I seemed to spend a lot of time alone, walking through very secluded country lanes, but a lot of young female pilgrims also did this and I didnt hear any adverse comments about safety. Hospitalero's were very mindful and warned people a lot about security in the albergues and the importance of keeping valuable safe. I dont remember this from other Camino's, but other than hearing a second hand story about mobile phones being stolen, I would recommend this route as being safe.

Cost: This route doesnt have an abundance of coffee shops en-route selling cooked breakfasts etc (easy for me to spend money like this) so a very realistic budget is up to 30 euros a day I think. Some of the younger pilgrims were managing on 20 per day.

Overall, this was my faourite camino of the routes I have done ... the scenery genuinely gave me a number of 'WOW' moments, although these do tend to disappear in the 2nd half of the trip. I joined the French route two days before Santiago, an the number of pilgrims is x10 at that point so you do need to mentally prepare for that. The younger people can make this a very sociable camino if thats what you want .. but if you want a quieter trip it also suits as you can walk alone a lot.

I'm happy to answer any queries anyone may have ...

and once again, that link to my Haiku poetry and Camino photo ebook!

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/camino-del-norte-hiking-with-haiku.63234/

I loved the Norte. I did part of Frances and didn't like it much

 

[Burro]

Greetings fellow pilgrims!

I have recently completed the Camino del Norte, taking 50 days from Irun > Santiago > Muxia > Fineseterre > Santiago, a route that my compestella recorded as 1057km. I captured my thoughts in Haiku poetry, and the ebook link is in this thread: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/camino-del-norte-hiking-with-haiku.63234/

But now I have the link out of the way, I thought I would post some observations, and will of course look forward to answering any queries.

Footwear: I walked in a pair of Adidas Terrex trek shoes, boots are definately not needed, but the second half of the trip involves a heck of a lot of road walking. If you have room in your pack for a second pair of shoes, a pair of trail runners would be perfect I think. Actually, trail runners might be better as a first choice too!

Albergues: A fairly good choice in most places. Not too much of a panic about finding a bed, and during the period I walked, no real need for a 'bed race'. A good number of donation based places, plus municipal albergues, typically at 6 euros.

Other pilgrims: Based on my previous Frances / Portugues and Finesterre Camino's, this one does seem to have a much younger group of pilgrims, with our friends from Germany being the most typical of these younger walkers. Note, it can seem very very quiet during the day, this meant many hours of walking alone for me ... but it wasnt as quiet as I thought, 40 people started from the municipal in Irun on the day I started.

Sleeping bag: I packed a 2 season bag, but used it less than 10 times on the 50 night trip. The majority of places did have blankets, and if I went again (route and time of year), I would certainly take a liner only, which would be lighter and smaller.

Guide Books: Breirley doesnt publish a book for this route, so I used a Ciccerone guide. The accomodation listing was NOT to be relied upon, a few of the places dont exist anymore, or no longer accept pilgrims (An example being the Youth Hostel in Zaurautz). This guide also had a number of silly route ideas, with several 40km days listed. The 'Buen Camino' app seemed to be a popular choice on the route, but be warned ... the apps do not always have up-to-date and correct mapping. An app called 'Camino Places' misdirected me en-route to Laredo taking me on a rather dangerous mountain path, and whilst I didnt use 'Buen Camino' mapping on the Norte, I did use it on the way to Muxia and it also took me away from the waymarked path.

Waymarking: I think it is excellent. There isn't really any need to use an app as the marked route is very easy to follow 98% of the time.

Safety and security: From Irun, I seemed to spend a lot of time alone, walking through very secluded country lanes, but a lot of young female pilgrims also did this and I didnt hear any adverse comments about safety. Hospitalero's were very mindful and warned people a lot about security in the albergues and the importance of keeping valuable safe. I dont remember this from other Camino's, but other than hearing a second hand story about mobile phones being stolen, I would recommend this route as being safe.

Cost: This route doesnt have an abundance of coffee shops en-route selling cooked breakfasts etc (easy for me to spend money like this) so a very realistic budget is up to 30 euros a day I think. Some of the younger pilgrims were managing on 20 per day.

Overall, this was my faourite camino of the routes I have done ... the scenery genuinely gave me a number of 'WOW' moments, although these do tend to disappear in the 2nd half of the trip. I joined the French route two days before Santiago, an the number of pilgrims is x10 at that point so you do need to mentally prepare for that. The younger people can make this a very sociable camino if thats what you want .. but if you want a quieter trip it also suits as you can walk alone a lot.

I'm happy to answer any queries anyone may have ...

and once again, that link to my Haiku poetry and Camino photo ebook!

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/camino-del-norte-hiking-with-haiku.63234/

 

[Burro]

Hi Nick,
Loved your comments. I did the Frances last year and I'm stating Del Norte on August 9th, with my wife this time, combining it with the Primitive.
Do you have recommendations for Albergues along the route.
Larry

 

[Burro]

Hi Nick,
I just downloaded your book. What a joy to read, I really enjoyed the poetry. It's really got us excited about starting our trip. I'm driving my wife crazy by talking about it every day (reading/seeing your book is not going to make it any easier on her.) This is like being a child and waiting for Christmas (is Santa coming tomorrow?
Larry

 

[nickpellatt]

Hi Nick,
Loved your comments. I did the Frances last year and I'm stating Del Norte on August 9th, with my wife this time, combining it with the Primitive.
Do you have recommendations for Albergues along the route.
Larry

Hi Larry

I've been thinking over my albergues this morning, and to be honest ... I'm finding it hard to offer any direct recommendation. I stayed in places that were made amazing by the company I had, rather than the place I was in!

A few ideas though - Again, just based on my experience.

Castro-Urdiales has a very beautiful coast / beaches, and so whilst the Alberuge de Peregrinos wasn't the best place, the town itself is a must-stop I think.

Guermes has a large albergue called Albergue La Cabana del Abuelo Peuto, which my guidebook recommended as a 'must stop' place, with communal meals, and operated by donation. I however, didnt like it, and so would suggest trying a newly opened private albergue just before it. I dont know the name of it however, but I stopped there for a drink and they were so friendly. (The place in Guermes didnt offer any food or drink outside the meal time, and I was starving and thirsty (for a beer) but it simply wasnt available.

Santa Cruz De Bezana - Albergue La Santa Cruz was nice, the only donation based, communal meal place I would recommend. Nice bedroom too.

Somewhere after this is an albergue which has been converted from one of the traditional corn storage houses ... again, I dont know the name, and I only know about it as I remember the photos another pilgrim showed me, one to look out for though, and perhaps found through the Buen Camino app?

Tapia de Casariego has an albergue de peregrinos right on the coast, amazing view but I didnt stay there, it looked fantastic but I went on to another beautiful spot the same day, which is the albergue de peregrinos in Ribadeo, which is small, but is situated in another beautiful spot overlooking the sea, or where the river meets the sea.

I stayed in a lot of Albergue de Peregrinos, and whilst they arent really the quietest, most beautiful etc ... they were great because of the people I met. They also suited my schedule most of the time ... it can be hard to pick a place you want to stay as you may find it hard to get match your walking schedule to suit. Some days I couldnt reach my desired spot, and stopped early due to the weather. Other days I made such great time, that I went past my desired stop as I couldnt really justify finished at 11.30 and waiting around for hours for a place to open.

Thanks for the feedback on the poetry .. Haiku is very simple, but sometimes it can be quite meaningful too.