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t2Andreo, with your humility and lack of ego, I would happily share a dorm with youI enjoyed reading this thread, I really did. It serves to underscore why I made a choice several Caminos ago to only stay in private hostal or hotel accommodations when on Camino.
I stay in private albergues only when solitary lodging is simply not available. At those few times when a albergue is the sole choice, I carry earplugs which I offer to everyone who desires.
Allow me to explain.
For everyone involved, a Camino is supposed to be a special time in their life. It is intended to be a unique experience. One typically hopes to come off a Camino with an improved attitude, sense of self, or of others. Clearly, not being able to sleep well enough to recharge one's "batteries" for the coming day's walk works against this desired result.
I am no different than anyone else. However, I am aware that I snore, must get up often to use the toilet and require uninterrupted sleep, to the extent my own snoring and toilet needs dictate.
Because I KNOW that these practices will annoy people in a albergue setting, I simply choose to avoid creating a burden for others to deal with.
Yes, this increases my daily lodging cost. I can offset some of it if I am careful in choosing lodging places, or by eating more simply, or reducing my alcohol intake while on Camino. I plan budget and save accordingly, all year, so I can afford these increased costs.
But, in the end, I figure that my added expense contributes at least indirectly to an enhanced Camino experience by my fellow pilgrims. I just hope, usually in vain, that others will take the hint and do the same out of respect and consideration for others.
I hope this helps.
Whoa!! This sounds like ageism and sexism!! No......just won't do.The Caminos are particularly bad because of the amount of older men, and its a fact that you are more likely to snore as you get older, particularly males.
Best defence is to camp.
Please......not all non Europeans! And thank you for raising the issue.Special notice here for non Europeans: throat clearing and spitting is culturally inappropriate in Europe. If you do it, even outdoors or audibly in the bathroom, people will think you are disgusting. They won't say it but they are thinking it.
Thank you. You have been warned.
Of course. But it's for sure a cultural 'thing' in some parts of the world. Just not this one!Please......not all non Europeans!
Men outnumber women 2-1 when it comes to snoring.The Caminos are particularly bad because of the amount of older men, and its a fact that you are more likely to snore as you get older, particularly males.
Best defence is to camp.
I wish you a speedy recovery from your surgery.Men outnumber women 2-1 when it comes to snoring.
The fact that 50% of the population snores at least part of the time,
thats still a lot of women snorers. LOL
Both male & female equally tend to snore more as they get older
( I believe still maintaining the 2-1 ratio )
The main reason for the increase in snoring is weight gain & loss of muscle tone.
I have time to research these things because I had hand surgery Thursday & right now have too much time on my hands. No pun intended lol
Thank youI wish you a speedy recovery from your surgery.
Maybe you should start a separate thread and post your cure. I'm sure that many people would be interested (and grateful) , and it would save you from having to answer multiple PMs.This thread has attracted so many posts that I will not add to them, except to say that some people cannot use ear plugs for medical reasons, and occasionally someone will tell you they snore and laugh as though it is a big joke. I used to be a big time snorer, but cured myself. Send me a PM if you want to know more
It's the women that are worst.The Caminos are particularly bad because of the amount of older men, and its a fact that you are more likely to snore as you get older, particularly males.
Best defence is to camp.
Please , it's not nice to say this.It's the women that are worst.
A woman can not snoreIt's the women that are worst.
Peter, you seem like a gentleman, thank youPlease , it's not nice to say this.
Wish you well,Peter.
Of course. But it's for sure a cultural 'thing' in some parts of the world. Just not this one!
I'm glad that's straightened out ha haA woman can not snore
She may giggle or emit a light breeze
While she sleeps her ease.
A throat fidget at night
clearing her passages before the bright.
A twiddle a twaddle
a soothing vocal rattle.
But, no snoring does women
that cacophony is only done by: men!
In albergues with matrasses, I drag the matress with me along the floor and put it on the floor in another room. So no, I don't wake the snorer up, I don't make a scene,
That said - those who know they are 'gargantuan' snorers, could
Doesn't the act of dragging your mattress through the albergue wake people up???
Okay since I have been drawn into this...Loudest snorers - men or women? its a draw folks!
Loudest snorers - men or women? its a draw folks!
Last night I was awoken by a woman not once but twice because I apparently was snoring. I must admit that I do not like people in my personal space without my permission but especially when I am sleeping. I would never even think about going up and touching another person while sleeping. At least show some respect. If you can't sleep for the snoring BUY earplugs. I do. And I have been woken up by a guy while wearing earplugs because he snored that laud, but I would never consider going over and push him while he slept. Maybe it's just me but it is quite unpleasant to be woken up by a stranger touching you. I almost wet myself as you do not expect someone to touch you in the middle of the night. Sorry had to air my thoughts. Do you think it is okay?
At Orisson someone said "There were eight people in here last night and four people were snoring!" I didn't like to admit that I could only hear three
There was a very loud snorer and we listened to the people clapping trying to get them to stop
Snoring is involuntary. A Spanish woman told me today that every pilgrim has the right to snore. I agree. And that will be aggravated by exhaustion and evil things like vino tinto. An apology might be a nice gesture but should not be expected. No one in an albergue should be expected to be given earplugs by anyone. If you are sensitive to snoring you should take and use the necessary personal protective equipment. I recommend these: http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/features/2012SeptLastPg.pdfI think tolerance and consideration from all parties is important - perhaps the snorer could warn, apologise and offer earplugs to co-sleepers and co-sleepers could prepare by bringing air plugs and perhaps try getting to bed/sleep before the snorer. It's no one's 'fault', but precautions could be taken by both sides.
And yes -belching, farting, spitting audibly in public is gross! Especially farting - those smells! It is extremely unpleasant. Yes, sometimes it is unavoidable, but acknowledging the infraction isn't. I don't understand the expectation that other people will make accommodations for someone who does these things in communal living when the belcher/farter/spitter is the one who is actually worsening the communal environment.
And other pilgrims have the right to sleep.Snoring is involuntary. A Spanish woman told me today that every pilgrim has the right to snore. I agree. And that will be aggravated by exhaustion and evil things like vino tinto. An apology might be a nice gesture but should not be expected. No one in an albergue should be expected to be given earplugs by anyone. If you are sensitive to snoring you should take and use the necessary personal protective equipment. I recommend these: http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/features/2012SeptLastPg.pdf
I for one sleep better when I hear snoring because I know "my people" are here and they are asleep - i.e. I'm not keeping them awake. Much of my adult life was spent in Navy ships and my personal space was violated almost every night when I was "shaken" for my watch. The normal way was to shake the lower leg lightly but persistently and then look out. Some sailors wake up mean.
I normally give permission to my neighbours in an albergue to "shake" me if my snoring is keeping them awake.
I have some sympathy for those who are kept awake by snoring but for those who have not taken their own personal precautions that sympathy is reduced to near none. If you expect the world to make itself over to suit your personal sensitivities you are living in dreamland. Especially if you happen to be visiting the land of "viva yo"!
If this was me snoring I would leave the room and go somewhere else to sleep in order not to disturb the others. Turning around and continue your sleep, after someone has pointed out that you snore, that is what is rude.
I have found that if I cut off part of the earplug, then roll or compress it, I can insert it into my ear canal and it fits comfortably and efficiently reduces the noise level around me. In fact, using the plugs provides what is almost like white noise.Just a word of caution for those who have never used earplugs and are planning to rely on them for your Camino: Practice using them prior to departure. Like shoes, it can take time getting them just right. You want to practice the method of inserting them correctly to get the full decibel-lowering value of the plug. You need to know whether you can tolerate sleeping with ear plugs, as some folks are not able to do so. For some, earplugs can hurt the skin that is in and around the ear canal. For others, there can be skin allergenic-type of sensitivities to the material. Some simply cannot abide the pressure the earplug exerts against the ear canal structures in order to create a seal. As with others, you might find that the ear plugs create an "achy feeling" somewhat like a mild ear ache.
I have used earplugs for a couple of decades now when I sleep. They remove the sound of snoring and loud outside noises while I sleep. If I need to set an alarm, I have a very high decibel alarm clock which is close to my side of the bed on a bedstand table. I will not make a recommendation for an earplug, only that the higher the decibel reduction rating is, the better it will perform... if inserted properly. It is better to have a lower decibel reduction rating and a good fit, than a higher decibel reduction rating and a poor fit. These are what I use; nothing fancy and they are inexpensive.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007XANYI/?tag=casaivar02-20
Serious question: What physical attributes do men have that would cause them to be worse snorers than women?In my experience: men are the worst. With certain physical attributes. Feel free to differ.........
If this was you snoring, nobody would come and wake you up and blame you for it, because in the vast majority of snore-filled dormitories people are not so inconsiderate and entitled as to do so.
If people who have not prepared themselves properly to sleep in a dormitory are kept awake by a snorer, that is not the snorer's fault. Given the extensive information available that there will be snorers in the albergue dormitories, it is unfair to suggest the poorly prepared should be given special treatment.
I think it quite an unrealistic expectation that snorers should not use communal dormitories in albergues. This is not a matter of courtesy - in my experience it comes from an elevated sense of entitlement that unfortunately some pilgrims seem to have, while at the same time overlooking their own annoying and disruptive habits. Albergues are there for all pilgrims - if you feel you need to avoid the disruption of sharing with snorers, it is up to you to pay the cost of more private accommodation.
I take the view that albergues are for all pilgrims, and if you are intolerant of what is relatively natural and almost normal behaviour like snoring, it is up to you to resolve the issue by seeking out more private accommodation.
Oh so people who react to snoring are inconsiderate. Wow. Thanks for the information.
Yes this thread is indeed turning nasty. What happened to not being judgmental?
Gone away with the other iffy "it's my Camino"?What happened to not being judgmental?
/BP
Larger tonsils? Larger tongue? Larger airways? ( nose & throat )Serious question: What physical attributes do men have that would cause them to be worse snorers than women?
You can't clear your throat in the bathroom? LOLSpecial notice here for non Europeans: throat clearing and spitting is culturally inappropriate in Europe. If you do it, even outdoors or audibly in the bathroom, people will think you are disgusting. They won't say it but they are thinking it.
Thank you. You have been warned.
Special notice here for non Europeans: throat clearing and spitting is culturally inappropriate in Europe. If you do it, even outdoors or audibly in the bathroom, people will think you are disgusting. They won't say it but they are thinking it.
Thank you. You have been warned.
Last night I was awoken by a woman not once but twice because I apparently was snoring. I must admit that I do not like people in my personal space without my permission but especially when I am sleeping. I would never even think about going up and touching another person while sleeping. At least show some respect. If you can't sleep for the snoring BUY earplugs. I do. And I have been woken up by a guy while wearing earplugs because he snored that laud, but I would never consider going over and push him while he slept. Maybe it's just me but it is quite unpleasant to be woken up by a stranger touching you. I almost wet myself as you do not expect someone to touch you in the middle of the night. Sorry had to air my thoughts. Do you think it is okay?
The countryside here is the noisiest place ever.
Don't think that staying in a private room will protect you from a sometimes-epic-snorer in an adjacent room.
I use a Cpap machine out of consideration for others.
Men outnumber women 2-1 when it comes to snoring.
Last night I was awoken by a woman not once but twice because I apparently was snoring.
I'm poking around because I am concerned about the noise my new travel CPAP makes (and working as hard as I can to decrease the sound of it through trial and error tests of different tube sizes, placements, etc.). Without the CPAP (which I need), I am a world-class snorer.
I awoke at dawn this morning to the birds in my neck of the woods drowning out my worrisome new CPAP. Automobile travel, I've noticed (since I am paying attention) is also louder.
My entire family are snorers. The walls can shake. I would sometimes come downstairs in the morning to find my young daughter curled up in a corner of the kitchen - the farthest she could get from my bedroom in the house.
My CPAP machine makes its own sound, but it can't come close to my snoring. And it does stop that, very effectively. I have somewhat jokingly considered carrying around a multi-lingual letter that says "MY SNORING IS WORSE".
My mother (and hers) take the gold medals in our immediate family for the age group, and my mother the overall winner (of course I can't judge my own relative performance in this event).
If this happened to me, I can have a "startle reflex" that would awaken the whole Albergue and likely cause them to instantly evacuate for fear of some sort of Horror Film-level catastrophe. (As a baby, the same daughter mentioned above - before she could even talk - once pretended to be snoring away on the couch (quite convincingly) and went into paroxysms when 'awakened', mimicking her old man.)
However, I might take the tack of inviting people to gently nudge me if my CPAP mask is making noise. Seems like a good compromise and a way to establish that not only do you not intend to disturb others, you want to avoid it. However, I usually can fall back to sleep (even after a startle reflex!) after such things pretty quickly. Probably from practice.
I have often suggested that
White noise... provides for a more, rather than less, peaceful sleep in the albergue. I have often suggested that albergue owners should consider installing their own CPAP or some similar ambient noise.
With all due respect and quite humbly (because I love your posts!), I can't stand white noise. My neighbor's constant air conditioner humming through the night drives me nuts. The neighbor on the other side has a young adult son who comes in super late and is incredibly loud, blasting the bass on his car stereo and shining high beam headlights in the windows. Snoring isn't pleasant either but the poor people can't help it. Seems sleep deprivation is part of life, both on and off the Camino.
"We need to find God, and he cannot be found in noise and restlessness. God is the friend of silence. See how nature - trees, flowers, grass- grows in silence; see the stars, the moon and the sun, how they move in silence... We need silence to be able to touch souls. " ~Mother Teresa
There always has been and there always will be snoring in albergues and there always will be stories of nights of misery from those who have been kept awake thereby. Always. And all the complaints, lamentations, and shamings, as far as I can tell, have done nothing, repeat nothing, to reduce the likelihood of you finding yourself at least occasionally in the same room as a heavy snorer. If you value a good night's sleep it's up to you to take the necessary personal countermeasures. Wear earplugs - these are the ones I recommend: http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/features/2012SeptLastPg.pdf . There are similar wax ones available at farmacias in Spain. They have good noise reduction and are pretty comfortable - really almost unnoticeable - to sleep with. If you are bothered by the dawn flashlight patrol, wear a travel eye-shade. If you are a snorer you could warn others nearby and, if you are comfortable with it - which many are not, tell them they can give you a shake and ask you to roll over if they are bothered in the night. If none of this works then consider spending every 2nd or 3rd night in a pension or casa rural so you can get at least one night of uninterrupted sleep - unless of course there are parrots or sheep nearby.
Oh David, I know that feeling!... I ..... wake up relaxed and recharged .. though the dorm is always empty when I wake up - Hang On! Wait a minute!!! Am I the snorer?????
Not trying to hijack or steer thread but I have found the best earplugs ever. I have used this several times for several things but the best were my custom fit ear plugs. I am sure this product can be found easy enough I just used this link to display what it is. Simply mix two compounds and squish into your ear, nice and deep. wait 20-30 minutes and pull it out. Next time you use it it fits so deep and snug. Also really comfortable and won't slip out. I also had my wife etch a tiny "L" in one so I would know which was which. They are hard to fit if not in correct ear.
- Earplugs are uncomfortable and not too effective for some people.
Very interesting, Bob!Well,,, after reading so many threads on here about snoring, I was really concerned before my first Camino start back in April. I had a sleep study done and was assured that I do not have sleep apnea, but do occasionally snore. I was still worried that I might be a problem, so I got an app for my phone called "snore clock" to find out how much I snore. Using this app and my "Fitbit", I was able to gather some interesting information that I had not seen before.
The amount I snore is directly related to the room temperature!!!
The deepness of sleep also corresponds directly to the room temperature.
Below 70F, I snore light to moderate, much of the night (70 to 80%) and get very little deep sleep. The recorder let's you review the sounds and "moderate" is much less than I heard in many Albergues.
Between 72F and 75F, I snore lightly about 20% or the night and get a good amount of deep sleep.
Between 75F and 78F I do not snore at all and get a similar amount of deep sleep.
Above 78F I don't sleep much at all, and wake up constantly .
I'm sure the temperatures would vary from person to person, but I have now noticed that in the colder rooms, there are more people are snoring.
As to the subject of waking people up. NEVER! I had man come to my bed on a cold night, (when someone had left the window open) and he let out a blood-curdling scream. He thought it was a funny way to wake me up. I "firmly" expressed to him that if it happened again he may never wake up from his sleep again. He did not repeat his "stunt" and was gone when I awoke the next morning. Maybe that thought caused him some sleep problems
That is nice of you, but don't.However, given the animosity of some of the people here, I think I will just stay in a private room every night.
Don't mind the angry people. Snoring is part and parcel of the Camino. So is farting, noisy people in the early morning as well as sunshine, nice and friendly people, beautiful nature etc. Be considerate (you obviously are judged by your post) but accept you cannot be friends with everyone.....So try to sleep in an albergue. It's a great way to meet other and often very nice and very interesting people. Go for it!I snore loudly, not that I've ever heard it, but I've been told. Despite what a few posters think, I do not do it on purpose. I'm not overweight, I don't have sleep apnea (I've been tested), and I never sleep on my back. So, I'm not sure what waking me up would accomplish. I did part of the camino last year and stayed in hotels, so I didn't bother anyone. I would like to do the whole camino in 2019. Although I can easily afford to stay in hotels every night, I thought I would like to experience communal living at least a few nights. However, given the animosity of some of the people here, I think I will just stay in a private room every night.
BTW, when I was in college I was in a fraternity. One of the duties as a freshman was to be on wakeup duty once a week. People would sign up the night before for what time they would like to be woken up. This was to avoid waking others with an alarm clock. There was one guy who was notorious for trying to hit whoever woke him up (not on purpose, just reflexes), so we were very careful when waking him up. I'd hate to think what would happen to the unsuspecting person that would try to wake him up in an albergue.
Exactly what Annie was worried about. Personally I'm a side sleeper and if I go for a siesta I have to take my hearing aids out otherwise they irritate. Moldex are my favourite sponge plugs - the ones advertised on eBay as "Sparkplugs" (Google Translate doesn't always get it right!) but she's worried they might get lodged in the ear channel though I've never had a problem.I looked up those Sleeep earplugs on Amazon. They have mixed reviews. Seems like avlot of people find them uncomfortable. One review mentioned bruising. I also noticed other similar earplugs at lower prices.
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