LIVE from the Camino Buy earplugs if the snoring annoys you...

[notion900]

Special notice here for non Europeans: throat clearing and spitting is culturally inappropriate in Europe. If you do it, even outdoors or audibly in the bathroom, people will think you are disgusting. They won't say it but they are thinking it.
Thank you. You have been warned.

 

[katie@camino]

I enjoyed reading this thread, I really did. It serves to underscore why I made a choice several Caminos ago to only stay in private hostal or hotel accommodations when on Camino.

I stay in private albergues only when solitary lodging is simply not available. At those few times when a albergue is the sole choice, I carry earplugs which I offer to everyone who desires.

Allow me to explain.

For everyone involved, a Camino is supposed to be a special time in their life. It is intended to be a unique experience. One typically hopes to come off a Camino with an improved attitude, sense of self, or of others. Clearly, not being able to sleep well enough to recharge one's "batteries" for the coming day's walk works against this desired result.

I am no different than anyone else. However, I am aware that I snore, must get up often to use the toilet and require uninterrupted sleep, to the extent my own snoring and toilet needs dictate.

Because I KNOW that these practices will annoy people in a albergue setting, I simply choose to avoid creating a burden for others to deal with.

Yes, this increases my daily lodging cost. I can offset some of it if I am careful in choosing lodging places, or by eating more simply, or reducing my alcohol intake while on Camino. I plan budget and save accordingly, all year, so I can afford these increased costs.

But, in the end, I figure that my added expense contributes at least indirectly to an enhanced Camino experience by my fellow pilgrims. I just hope, usually in vain, that others will take the hint and do the same out of respect and consideration for others.

I hope this helps.

t2Andreo, with your humility and lack of ego, I would happily share a dorm with you

 

[Icacos]

The Caminos are particularly bad because of the amount of older men, and its a fact that you are more likely to snore as you get older, particularly males.

Best defence is to camp.

Whoa!! This sounds like ageism and sexism!! No......just won't do.

 

[Icacos]

Special notice here for non Europeans: throat clearing and spitting is culturally inappropriate in Europe. If you do it, even outdoors or audibly in the bathroom, people will think you are disgusting. They won't say it but they are thinking it.
Thank you. You have been warned.

Please......not all non Europeans! And thank you for raising the issue.

 

[notion900]

Please......not all non Europeans!

Of course. But it's for sure a cultural 'thing' in some parts of the world. Just not this one!

 

[Jersey]

The Caminos are particularly bad because of the amount of older men, and its a fact that you are more likely to snore as you get older, particularly males.

Best defence is to camp.

Men outnumber women 2-1 when it comes to snoring.
The fact that 50% of the population snores at least part of the time,
thats still a lot of women snorers. LOL
Both male & female equally tend to snore more as they get older
( I believe still maintaining the 2-1 ratio )
The main reason for the increase in snoring is weight gain & loss of muscle tone.
I have time to research these things because I had hand surgery Thursday & right now have too much time on my hands. No pun intended lol

 

[Icacos]

Men outnumber women 2-1 when it comes to snoring.
The fact that 50% of the population snores at least part of the time,
thats still a lot of women snorers. LOL
Both male & female equally tend to snore more as they get older
( I believe still maintaining the 2-1 ratio )
The main reason for the increase in snoring is weight gain & loss of muscle tone.
I have time to research these things because I had hand surgery Thursday & right now have too much time on my hands. No pun intended lol

I wish you a speedy recovery from your surgery.

 

[Jersey]

I wish you a speedy recovery from your surgery.

Thank you
I'm from New Jersey. We heal quickly

 

[camino-david]

This thread has attracted so many posts that I will not add to them, except to say that some people cannot use ear plugs for medical reasons, and occasionally someone will tell you they snore and laugh as though it is a big joke. I used to be a big time snorer, but cured myself. Send me a PM if you want to know more

 

[trecile]

This thread has attracted so many posts that I will not add to them, except to say that some people cannot use ear plugs for medical reasons, and occasionally someone will tell you they snore and laugh as though it is a big joke. I used to be a big time snorer, but cured myself. Send me a PM if you want to know more

Maybe you should start a separate thread and post your cure. I'm sure that many people would be interested (and grateful) , and it would save you from having to answer multiple PMs.

 

[AlanB]

It's a foregone conclusion. Sleep in albergues...people snore. Simple...unavoidable. What is absolutely avoidable is packing your pack in the morning and thinking you are quiet. You're not! It is impossible to put plastic bags into a backpack silently..IMPOSSIBLE.Take the bag out of the dorm. Headlamps? Do me a favour!!

 

[JulieandPeter]

I have been sleeping (not sleeping) with a loud snorer for 33 years. I used to give him a push (with his permission) several times a night in an effort to get some sleep. However, as the years have gone by, I have learned to feel grateful that he is there lying next to me snoring away, in fact, when he isn't snoring, I get a little worried.

I have come up with a weird trick for getting to sleep while he snores. I have memorized all of the articles and amendments of the US Constitution.

I know - weird.

When I find myself FOCUSING on the snoring, I start going through the amendments. I am usually asleep by the 9th amendment. This also works for worrying about stuff in the middle of the night.

I chose the US Constitution because I thought it would be a useful thing to memorize, however, I think there are many long lists that could be memorized. Before the US Constitution, I used to go through all of the towns we visited along the Camino.

BTW We try to book private rooms most of the time out of courtesy to others, but sometimes that is not possible.

I'm going to try brushing his neck tonight.

 

[MikeJS]

The Caminos are particularly bad because of the amount of older men, and its a fact that you are more likely to snore as you get older, particularly males.

Best defence is to camp.

It's the women that are worst.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

It's the women that are worst.

Please , it's not nice to say this.

Wish you well,Peter.

 

[nycwalking]

It's the women that are worst.

A woman can not snore

She may giggle or emit a light breeze
While she sleeps her ease.

A throat fidget at night
clearing her passages before the bright.

A twiddle a twaddle
a soothing vocal rattle.

But, no snoring does women
that cacophony is only done by: men!

 

[hecate105]

I'm easily woken at home, living in a quiet rural area - any noise wakes me. But give me 6-10 hours of cycling or walking on a Camino and despite all the snoring, farting and (most annoying by far...!) bag rustling, I sleep like a baby. Yes, i wear earplugs, yes, occasionally i am woken by gargantuan snorers, and yes, i snore sometimes myself. But when awake over two weeks in several albergues (with chronic toothache) I found that pretty much everyone snores, or makes other annoying noises at some point in the night. One of my mates got incensed at a man's loud snoring - until i pointed out that her snore was of a much deeper timbre...!
Snorers generally cannot help snoring - but many noisy/irritating activities can be moderated - like bag rustling/phone calls and alarms/torch flashing, door banging, talking loudly after lights out - and poking other pilgrims because you find them annoying....!

 

[katie@camino]

Please , it's not nice to say this.

Wish you well,Peter.

Peter, you seem like a gentleman, thank you

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Of course. But it's for sure a cultural 'thing' in some parts of the world. Just not this one!

As a person who lived in SE Asia for many years, I can assure you that it is a "thing" in some parts of the world. Not in my current corner of the globe, but in SE Asia, yes.

 

[Jersey]

A woman can not snore

She may giggle or emit a light breeze
While she sleeps her ease.

A throat fidget at night
clearing her passages before the bright.

A twiddle a twaddle
a soothing vocal rattle.

But, no snoring does women
that cacophony is only done by: men!

I'm glad that's straightened out ha ha

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

If I have walked 40 kms and I am going to do some 40 kms tomorrow as well, I need to sleep. Oh I'm sorry: is it "selfish"? Is "sleeping not what the Camino is all about"? Well I don't know about other people, but in order to walk the Camino, you have to be able to sleep at night to recover for the day. Period.

And that is why I get extremely irritated if I share a room where someone snores. And all of you who talk about "one's space" and how rude it is to invade it: the snores have already invaded everyone else's space, as someone pointed out above. That is not to say that the snorer does this delibaretly. But the act of "invading someones place" can be seen from other persepctives as well. And skip the "buy some ear-plugs" argument as they don't shut out all sounds!

So: do I think I have the right to poke or touch the snorer? No, not at all: have no fear (although I don't understand what all the fuzz is about). No: I leave the room, take my stuff and try to find a couch or something else to sleep on. In albergues with matrasses, I drag the matress with me along the floor and put it on the floor in another room. So no, I don't wake the snorer up, I don't make a scene, but I go somewhere else. I just have to say that I do NOT do this with a smile on my face. I think it is weird that other people (sometimes 10 or 20 or whatever) have to suffer because of 1 person.

Now: I understand that you don't choose to snore. I get it. That is a reason not to get angry at anyone, I know. Although: If you have reached a certain age: have no-one ever told you that you snore?! If you are aware of that, it is plain rude to walk into an albergue and not care about how it will affect the other 20 pilgrims. (Uh-oh, angry members of the Forum reacting...) With a certain age I mean anywhere between 18 and 99 years old; if you have had enough time to have feed-back about your snoring from family, partner, friends etc. Okaaaay I had at least 10 more things to say about this but I don't want to get the moderators too busy...

/Bad Pilgrim

 

[hecate105]

The point i was making is that pretty much EVERYONE does snore! Most people say they don't- but listen to a room full of people and about 9 out of 10 do - some only occasionally, some quietly, but they do do it!! So how can you say 'snorers shouldn't stay in albergues'? I would suggest that those who have such problems with noise from others get a private room - then you won't get any problems... That said - those who know they are 'gargantuan' snorers, could make some effort - whether it is having a ball stitched in their shirt so they can't lay on their back(if that makes them worse) or telling their neighbour to give them a prod, or getting a private room themselves.. But for the vast majority of us - its earplugs in, huddle down and hope you aren't the loudest snorer in the dorm....!

 

[trecile]

In albergues with matrasses, I drag the matress with me along the floor and put it on the floor in another room. So no, I don't wake the snorer up, I don't make a scene,

Doesn't the act of dragging your mattress through the albergue wake people up???

 

[hecate105]

Loudest snorers - men or women? its a draw folks!

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

That said - those who know they are 'gargantuan' snorers, could

It is them I am talking about. That is why I said ear-plugs don't shut all sounds out.

I do prefer to stay in private alternatives because of this. But it is the "suit your self"-attitude of some people (not particularly you) that bothers me. "If you can't stand the noise, go somewhere else". I do go somewhere else, so no-one here should be annoyed with what I write, I hope. It is just that for some people it seems natural that I have to move (not the snorer), why is that obvious?

Not aimed at you, but to the general tone of discussion in this thread.

And all the comments about punching people in the face or hitting them if someone wakes them up (because they snore)? I'm not in favor of violence so I would refrain from that if I were them. Oh yeah that is a humble behavior: folks: first you ruin people's sleep by snoring, very loudly, and then you want to punch them in the face if they tell you about it?

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

Doesn't the act of dragging your mattress through the albergue wake people up???

My feet are very light... :OD

If it's a matter of only 1 pilgrim and if he/she is the one with the abnormal snoring, you can BET it will wake her/him up :O)

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

Loudest snorers - men or women? its a draw folks!

Okay since I have been drawn into this...

In my experience: men are the worst. With certain physical attributes. Feel free to differ.................

/BP

 

[notion900]

I have had only 3 incidents where I shared a dorm with an unbearable snorer. One was El Jabali on the Primitivo as described above. Another man with untreated sleep apnoa on the French Way, who stopped breathing for minutes at a time and just freaked me out. And finally a very 'stout' man in Lugo public albergue. All 3 of these guys appeared to have an untreated sleep apnea or obesity, or both. I definitely think there is 'normal' snoring, and then 'pathological'.

 

[nycwalking]

Loudest snorers - men or women? its a draw folks!

I am blessed. If WWIII started over my sleeping head I'll not awaken. So, since girls are everything nice, and boys.... Then I must stand by my earlier post: women no snore.

 

[Deleted member 56069]

I suspect my snoring is as bad or worse than most others. I completely avoid bunk rooms unless absolutely no other options being available at night.
Private rooms at albergues, pensions, hotels and even rooms at private houses when available.
I am not anti-social at all, but after the daily half marathon of walking, my wife and I enjoy our own space and a good night's sleep.
Avoiding bunk rooms like the plague has immeasurably improved both of our Camino experiences.
Still meet lots of people, start each day refreshed, relaxed and happy and with a great appreciation for fellow pilgrims.
Sounds like some others that have responded on this topic might want to avoid bunk rooms as well.

 

[mvanert]

Last night I was awoken by a woman not once but twice because I apparently was snoring. I must admit that I do not like people in my personal space without my permission but especially when I am sleeping. I would never even think about going up and touching another person while sleeping. At least show some respect. If you can't sleep for the snoring BUY earplugs. I do. And I have been woken up by a guy while wearing earplugs because he snored that laud, but I would never consider going over and push him while he slept. Maybe it's just me but it is quite unpleasant to be woken up by a stranger touching you. I almost wet myself as you do not expect someone to touch you in the middle of the night. Sorry had to air my thoughts. Do you think it is okay?

I snore. So my wife says. I carry earplugs while on the camino and give them out to all nearby with apology.

 

[Lexine]

Well, as someone who wears industrial earplugs (which actually hurt my ears), I have to say that it feels unfair to spend an entire night not being able to sleep. My son is 23 and we are traveling now (just left Belfarado). He also said that with the man snoring in our albergue last night, he was unable to sleep. He said he really wanted to yell out several times last night to alert the snorer. Now we are so tired and renting a hotel room to get some sleep. It is unfair on both sides. I really feel snorers should try to ask for a "snoring" room.

 

[Canucks]

Since I belch, fart, snore, and get up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, but am intolerant of putting up with other strangers who do so, our perfect solution was to stay in private accommodations.

Plus, the added benefit was it freed up an albergue spot for others!

I wouldn't think of waking up a stranger without prior consent in a communal living situation.

 

[Gareth Griffith]

There was a lady the size of a sumo wrestler on the bunk underneath mine. I must admit I snore, but this woman was in a league of her own. Everytime she woke me I grabbed the end of the top bunk and shook it violently until it woke her. Then I went back to sleep. This happened several times during the course of the night.
The following day I put as much distance as i could between me and her!
I encountered other snorers that defeated my earplugs in which case it was bud earphones and calming music to drown out the snoring.
At Orisson someone said "There were eight people in here last night and four people were snoring!" I didn't like to admit that I could only hear three. My mate worked at a power station and had a good stock of ear-plugs which came in very handy for offering round every evening to fellow pilgrims at bedtime.

 

[GRR]

I brought earplugs with me on the Camino. Not for me, but for everyone else.

 

[WayWalker]

No, touching is never appropriate and I feel for you. That would have upset me. I was in love with my earplugs and that bottle of wine for dinner. And having walked 15 or so miles. And a private room every three or so nights. One night I was cuddling with my hubby in the top bunk in a private room with only one bunk but that was open on the top to the rest of the room. There was a very loud snorer and we listened to the people clapping trying to get them to stop. We both started laughing uncontrollably, albeit softly. hahaha! Not to minimize because I realize this is a very real issue on the Camino. Sometimes if the snoring was rhythmic, believe it or not it helped me sleep!!!

 

[trecile]

At Orisson someone said "There were eight people in here last night and four people were snoring!" I didn't like to admit that I could only hear three

 

[MCFearnley]

On my pilgrimage I brought a whole bunch of individually wrapped earplugs. I had more than I would use and offered them to people who in conversation would mention that snoring was an irritant to them. The people to whom I handed out earplugs were very thankful as they had never thought about packing some. My hubby works for a company that sells industrial stuff, among them amazing earplugs. We get them for a song and it is a pleasure to give them away.

These are the ones I use. They have the highest noise reduction rating for foam plugs--NRR33.
http://www.moldex.com/hearing-protection/foam-earplugs/sparkplugs.php

 

[JabbaPapa]

There was a very loud snorer and we listened to the people clapping trying to get them to stop

People are far more likely to have their sleep disturbed by someone clapping in the dorm than by a snorer.

Noisy middle-of the-night complaints about noise are as self-defeating as they are unpleasant.

Not everyone has trouble sleeping in the company of snorers in the dorm.

 

[Gillean]

I think tolerance and consideration from all parties is important - perhaps the snorer could warn, apologise and offer earplugs to co-sleepers and co-sleepers could prepare by bringing air plugs and perhaps try getting to bed/sleep before the snorer. It's no one's 'fault', but precautions could be taken by both sides.

And yes -belching, farting, spitting audibly in public is gross! Especially farting - those smells! It is extremely unpleasant. Yes, sometimes it is unavoidable, but acknowledging the infraction isn't. I don't understand the expectation that other people will make accommodations for someone who does these things in communal living when the belcher/farter/spitter is the one who is actually worsening the communal environment.

Snoring is involuntary. A Spanish woman told me today that every pilgrim has the right to snore. I agree. And that will be aggravated by exhaustion and evil things like vino tinto. An apology might be a nice gesture but should not be expected. No one in an albergue should be expected to be given earplugs by anyone. If you are sensitive to snoring you should take and use the necessary personal protective equipment. I recommend these: http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/features/2012SeptLastPg.pdf
I for one sleep better when I hear snoring because I know "my people" are here and they are asleep - i.e. I'm not keeping them awake. Much of my adult life was spent in Navy ships and my personal space was violated almost every night when I was "shaken" for my watch. The normal way was to shake the lower leg lightly but persistently and then look out. Some sailors wake up mean.
I normally give permission to my neighbours in an albergue to "shake" me if my snoring is keeping them awake.
I have some sympathy for those who are kept awake by snoring but for those who have not taken their own personal precautions that sympathy is reduced to near none. If you expect the world to make itself over to suit your personal sensitivities you are living in dreamland. Especially if you happen to be visiting the land of "viva yo"!

 

[katie@camino]

Snoring is involuntary. A Spanish woman told me today that every pilgrim has the right to snore. I agree. And that will be aggravated by exhaustion and evil things like vino tinto. An apology might be a nice gesture but should not be expected. No one in an albergue should be expected to be given earplugs by anyone. If you are sensitive to snoring you should take and use the necessary personal protective equipment. I recommend these: http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/features/2012SeptLastPg.pdf
I for one sleep better when I hear snoring because I know "my people" are here and they are asleep - i.e. I'm not keeping them awake. Much of my adult life was spent in Navy ships and my personal space was violated almost every night when I was "shaken" for my watch. The normal way was to shake the lower leg lightly but persistently and then look out. Some sailors wake up mean.
I normally give permission to my neighbours in an albergue to "shake" me if my snoring is keeping them awake.
I have some sympathy for those who are kept awake by snoring but for those who have not taken their own personal precautions that sympathy is reduced to near none. If you expect the world to make itself over to suit your personal sensitivities you are living in dreamland. Especially if you happen to be visiting the land of "viva yo"!

And other pilgrims have the right to sleep.

I refer to my very first sentiment - tolerance and consideration from all parties is paramount. I don't appreciate your personal attack, insinuating i live in dreamland because i put forward an alternate view. I did not grow up in the navy - this does not mean i am disconnected from reality, but that ypu and i are responding from different perspectives - and that's ok. No need for it to become personal or heated.

I think everything that can be said about snoring in communal areas has been said on this thread. Best wishes to you Gillean.

 

[Gillean]

Best wishes to you too Katie.

 

[Larniej]

OMG, this happened to my husband just last week! Couldn't believe how rude some people are and how they think you snore on purpose!! Earplugs are easy if snoring bothers you.

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

I disagree. Waking someone up doesn't mean you have the assumption that they snore on purpose. They wake you up because you are disturbing their sleep.

I don't think it is rude. If someone woke me up to tell me I snore it wouldn't be a problem at all.

And I wouldn't be that picky about someone "touching" me either. It is not sexual harassment to poke someones shoulder to wake them.

Earplugs don't always work.

If this was me snoring I would leave the room and go somewhere else to sleep in order not to disturb the others. Turning around and continue your sleep, after someone has pointed out that you snore, that is what is rude.

 

[JabbaPapa]

If this was me snoring I would leave the room and go somewhere else to sleep in order not to disturb the others. Turning around and continue your sleep, after someone has pointed out that you snore, that is what is rude.

If this was you snoring, nobody would come and wake you up and blame you for it, because in the vast majority of snore-filled dormitories people are not so inconsiderate and entitled as to do so.

Again, everyone snores occasionally ; this includes you ; and the loudest complainers about it are not infrequently champion snorers themselves.

This thread is starting to turn a bit nasty, frankly.

Whatever happened to : Live and let live ?

 

[Pilgrim Patricia]

Just a word of caution for those who have never used earplugs and are planning to rely on them for your Camino: Practice using them prior to departure. Like shoes, it can take time getting them just right. You want to practice the method of inserting them correctly to get the full decibel-lowering value of the plug. You need to know whether you can tolerate sleeping with ear plugs, as some folks are not able to do so. For some, earplugs can hurt the skin that is in and around the ear canal. For others, there can be skin allergenic-type of sensitivities to the material. Some simply cannot abide the pressure the earplug exerts against the ear canal structures in order to create a seal. As with others, you might find that the ear plugs create an "achy feeling" somewhat like a mild ear ache.

I have used earplugs for a couple of decades now when I sleep. They remove the sound of snoring and loud outside noises while I sleep. If I need to set an alarm, I have a very high decibel alarm clock which is close to my side of the bed on a bedstand table. I will not make a recommendation for an earplug, only that the higher the decibel reduction rating is, the better it will perform... if inserted properly. It is better to have a lower decibel reduction rating and a good fit, than a higher decibel reduction rating and a poor fit. These are what I use; nothing fancy and they are inexpensive.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007XANYI/?tag=casaivar02-20

I have found that if I cut off part of the earplug, then roll or compress it, I can insert it into my ear canal and it fits comfortably and efficiently reduces the noise level around me. In fact, using the plugs provides what is almost like white noise.

 

[Icacos]

In my experience: men are the worst. With certain physical attributes. Feel free to differ.........

Serious question: What physical attributes do men have that would cause them to be worse snorers than women?

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

If this was you snoring, nobody would come and wake you up and blame you for it, because in the vast majority of snore-filled dormitories people are not so inconsiderate and entitled as to do so.

Oh so people who react to snoring are inconsiderate. Wow. Thanks for the information.

Yes this thread is indeed turning nasty. What happened to not being judgmental?

I said from the beginning that I leave the room if I cannot sleep, without waking the one who snores. Sorry for being nasty.

Good bye.

/BP

 

[dougfitz]

I have been following this with rather morbid fascination - my hope that there might have been greater tolerance emerge has been disappointed. The special pleading by those who want to banish snorers is still as manifest today as it has been in previous years. Pity!

Anyway, I have put forward my views on this matter in the past. Here are some that have stood the test of time.

If people who have not prepared themselves properly to sleep in a dormitory are kept awake by a snorer, that is not the snorer's fault. Given the extensive information available that there will be snorers in the albergue dormitories, it is unfair to suggest the poorly prepared should be given special treatment.

I think it quite an unrealistic expectation that snorers should not use communal dormitories in albergues. This is not a matter of courtesy - in my experience it comes from an elevated sense of entitlement that unfortunately some pilgrims seem to have, while at the same time overlooking their own annoying and disruptive habits. Albergues are there for all pilgrims - if you feel you need to avoid the disruption of sharing with snorers, it is up to you to pay the cost of more private accommodation.

I take the view that albergues are for all pilgrims, and if you are intolerant of what is relatively natural and almost normal behaviour like snoring, it is up to you to resolve the issue by seeking out more private accommodation.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Oh so people who react to snoring are inconsiderate. Wow. Thanks for the information.

Yes this thread is indeed turning nasty. What happened to not being judgmental?

What happened to being non judgmental probably got lost just as soon as someone started designating some pilgrims as being worthy of special opprobrium and harassment.

 

[MCFearnley]

My way of looking at it is that if snoring (or whatever else) bothers me, I am the one to take measures to lessen the effect for me. Therefore it is my responsibility to carry earplugs if I am going to sleep in a dorm with snorers. My hubby is a snorer and at home we have found a solution where we sleep in separate rooms. However, when we travel, since he cannot control his snoring, I am the one to arm myself with the earplugs. Getting upset about his snoring and waking him up when he does serves neither of us.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

What happened to not being judgmental?

/BP

Gone away with the other iffy "it's my Camino"?

 

[Jersey]

Serious question: What physical attributes do men have that would cause them to be worse snorers than women?

Larger tonsils? Larger tongue? Larger airways? ( nose & throat )
Larger lungs?
That being said; 40% off people snore regularly.
Anyone that wants to stay in an Albergue needs to digest that.

 

[Jersey]

Special notice here for non Europeans: throat clearing and spitting is culturally inappropriate in Europe. If you do it, even outdoors or audibly in the bathroom, people will think you are disgusting. They won't say it but they are thinking it.
Thank you. You have been warned.

You can't clear your throat in the bathroom? LOL
I would imagine sneezing & blowing your nose would be worse than.
I'm not a throat clearer by nature but would think carrying whatever around in your throat all day would get uncomfortable lol

 

[SYates]

Special notice here for non Europeans: throat clearing and spitting is culturally inappropriate in Europe. If you do it, even outdoors or audibly in the bathroom, people will think you are disgusting. They won't say it but they are thinking it.
Thank you. You have been warned.

Europe is an awfully big continent, composed of many countries
Until recently I lived in the Czech Republic where throat clearing and spitting (but only outdoors) is perfectly acceptable.
BC SY

 

[Hermano Mayor]

Last night I was awoken by a woman not once but twice because I apparently was snoring. I must admit that I do not like people in my personal space without my permission but especially when I am sleeping. I would never even think about going up and touching another person while sleeping. At least show some respect. If you can't sleep for the snoring BUY earplugs. I do. And I have been woken up by a guy while wearing earplugs because he snored that laud, but I would never consider going over and push him while he slept. Maybe it's just me but it is quite unpleasant to be woken up by a stranger touching you. I almost wet myself as you do not expect someone to touch you in the middle of the night. Sorry had to air my thoughts. Do you think it is okay?

Earplugs! - The eleventh essential

 

[Ove Garpeman]

At Roncevalles we did not sleep due to all the devilish snorers and ear-plugs do not work, sadly.
The snorers should all be put in the same room in my opinion.

Next time we will happily pay for private rooms every other night.

Buen Camino

 

[Purple Backpack]

Most ear plugs hurt my ear canals so I was happy to find these. They are pricey but work well and fit me better than the moldable ones: www.amazon.com/Design-Reusable-Quiet-Plugs-Noise/dp/B003FFEHW4/ref=sr_1_4?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1500008940&sr=1-4&keywords=go+ear+plugs

A few other suggestions, from someone who lived with a snorer of epic wild boar proportions, snorting and snoring all night long. These are somewhat kinder than stuffing earplugs up the snorer's nostrils:

1. A couple of squirts of Afrin, a nasal spray with vasoconstrictive properties may help decrease congestion, if that is contributing to the snoring.
2. Don't assume snoring is caused by nasal passage problems. Sometimes a thicker neck is the issue. Eliminating pillows may help or changing the sleep position to straighten out the neck. I've always wanted to see if a Philadelphia collar (stiff collar used for neck injuries) would eliminate snoring by straightening out the trachea. No one has been willing to give this a try, though.
3. Cooler rooms. Hot rooms increase vasodilitation, cooler rooms shrink swollen tissues.
4. Sadly, decrease vino. Alcohol increases snoring, likely due to congestion and relaxing of muscles that support airway.
5. Breathe Right nasal strips seem to work for some people.
6. Putting a tennis ball in the pajama waistband can discourage back sleeping and help the snorer turn to the side. Sleeping on the back allows lax neck muscles to partially obstruct the airway.
7. Stay hydrated. Dry, irritated mucosal membranes aren't as pliant and supportive to the surrounding tissues.
8. And lastly, a hotel can be an oasis. Sometimes, you just gotta sleep.

 

[tjb1013]

I'm poking around because I am concerned about the noise my new travel CPAP makes (and working as hard as I can to decrease the sound of it through trial and error tests of different tube sizes, placements, etc.). Without the CPAP (which I need), I am a world-class snorer.

The countryside here is the noisiest place ever.

I awoke at dawn this morning to the birds in my neck of the woods drowning out my worrisome new CPAP. Automobile travel, I've noticed (since I am paying attention) is also louder.

Don't think that staying in a private room will protect you from a sometimes-epic-snorer in an adjacent room.

My entire family are snorers. The walls can shake. I would sometimes come downstairs in the morning to find my young daughter curled up in a corner of the kitchen - the farthest she could get from my bedroom in the house.

I use a Cpap machine out of consideration for others.

My CPAP machine makes its own sound, but it can't come close to my snoring. And it does stop that, very effectively. I have somewhat jokingly considered carrying around a multi-lingual letter that says "MY SNORING IS WORSE".

Men outnumber women 2-1 when it comes to snoring.

My mother (and hers) take the gold medals in our immediate family for the age group, and my mother the overall winner (of course I can't judge my own relative performance in this event).

Last night I was awoken by a woman not once but twice because I apparently was snoring.

If this happened to me, I can have a "startle reflex" that would awaken the whole Albergue and likely cause them to instantly evacuate for fear of some sort of Horror Film-level catastrophe. (As a baby, the same daughter mentioned above - before she could even talk - once pretended to be snoring away on the couch (quite convincingly) and went into paroxysms when 'awakened', mimicking her old man.)

However, I might take the tack of inviting people to gently nudge me if my CPAP mask is making noise. Seems like a good compromise and a way to establish that not only do you not intend to disturb others, you want to avoid it. However, I usually can fall back to sleep (even after a startle reflex!) after such things pretty quickly. Probably from practice.

 

[peregrina2000]

I'm poking around because I am concerned about the noise my new travel CPAP makes (and working as hard as I can to decrease the sound of it through trial and error tests of different tube sizes, placements, etc.). Without the CPAP (which I need), I am a world-class snorer.



I awoke at dawn this morning to the birds in my neck of the woods drowning out my worrisome new CPAP. Automobile travel, I've noticed (since I am paying attention) is also louder.



My entire family are snorers. The walls can shake. I would sometimes come downstairs in the morning to find my young daughter curled up in a corner of the kitchen - the farthest she could get from my bedroom in the house.



My CPAP machine makes its own sound, but it can't come close to my snoring. And it does stop that, very effectively. I have somewhat jokingly considered carrying around a multi-lingual letter that says "MY SNORING IS WORSE".



My mother (and hers) take the gold medals in our immediate family for the age group, and my mother the overall winner (of course I can't judge my own relative performance in this event).



If this happened to me, I can have a "startle reflex" that would awaken the whole Albergue and likely cause them to instantly evacuate for fear of some sort of Horror Film-level catastrophe. (As a baby, the same daughter mentioned above - before she could even talk - once pretended to be snoring away on the couch (quite convincingly) and went into paroxysms when 'awakened', mimicking her old man.)

However, I might take the tack of inviting people to gently nudge me if my CPAP mask is making noise. Seems like a good compromise and a way to establish that not only do you not intend to disturb others, you want to avoid it. However, I usually can fall back to sleep (even after a startle reflex!) after such things pretty quickly. Probably from practice.

Hi, tjb1013,

I appreciate that you are concerned about making noise during the night, but I think you should be careful about inviting people to "gently nudge" you. As others have said, night noise is a permanent feature of albergues, these are involuntary noises, and some people's understanding of a "gentle nudge" may be different than yours.

But on the general topic, I would RUN not walk, to bag a bed next to you if I saw you had a CPAP machine. White noise is totally different than snoring. It is constant, it drowns out the sporadic noises and it generally provides for a more, rather than less, peaceful sleep in the albergue. I have often suggested that albergue owners should consider installing their own CPAP or some similar ambient noise. Buen camino, Laurie

 

[tjb1013]

I have often suggested that

Believe me, I have seen your posts on this as I relentlessly search this issue. Perhaps I should have your posts in a multi-lingual laminated card!

 

[Purple Backpack]

White noise... provides for a more, rather than less, peaceful sleep in the albergue. I have often suggested that albergue owners should consider installing their own CPAP or some similar ambient noise.

With all due respect and quite humbly (because I love your posts!), I can't stand white noise. My neighbor's constant air conditioner humming through the night drives me nuts. The neighbor on the other side has a young adult son who comes in super late and is incredibly loud, blasting the bass on his car stereo and shining high beam headlights in the windows. Snoring isn't pleasant either but the poor people can't help it. Seems sleep deprivation is part of life, both on and off the Camino.

"We need to find God, and he cannot be found in noise and restlessness. God is the friend of silence. See how nature - trees, flowers, grass- grows in silence; see the stars, the moon and the sun, how they move in silence... We need silence to be able to touch souls. " ~Mother Teresa

 

[peregrina2000]

With all due respect and quite humbly (because I love your posts!), I can't stand white noise. My neighbor's constant air conditioner humming through the night drives me nuts. The neighbor on the other side has a young adult son who comes in super late and is incredibly loud, blasting the bass on his car stereo and shining high beam headlights in the windows. Snoring isn't pleasant either but the poor people can't help it. Seems sleep deprivation is part of life, both on and off the Camino.

"We need to find God, and he cannot be found in noise and restlessness. God is the friend of silence. See how nature - trees, flowers, grass- grows in silence; see the stars, the moon and the sun, how they move in silence... We need silence to be able to touch souls. " ~Mother Teresa

Hi,Purple Backpack, I guess for me it's a question of the lesser of the evils. My experience has been that once you fall asleep with the white noise, it won't wake you up. So if it's louder than the snoring I don't hear the snoring. But in the end, you're right -- snoring or CPAP, neither is a personal choice, not like rustling plastic bags or turning on the lights at 5 am!

 

[Gillean]

There always has been and there always will be snoring in albergues and there always will be stories of nights of misery from those who have been kept awake thereby. Always. And all the complaints, lamentations, and shamings, as far as I can tell, have done nothing, repeat nothing, to reduce the likelihood of you finding yourself at least occasionally in the same room as a heavy snorer. If you value a good night's sleep it's up to you to take the necessary personal countermeasures. Wear earplugs - these are the ones I recommend: http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/features/2012SeptLastPg.pdf . There are similar wax ones available at farmacias in Spain. They have good noise reduction and are pretty comfortable - really almost unnoticeable - to sleep with. If you are bothered by the dawn flashlight patrol, wear a travel eye-shade. If you are a snorer you could warn others nearby and, if you are comfortable with it - which many are not, tell them they can give you a shake and ask you to roll over if they are bothered in the night. If none of this works then consider spending every 2nd or 3rd night in a pension or casa rural so you can get at least one night of uninterrupted sleep - unless of course there are parrots or sheep nearby.

 

[Hermano Mayor]

There always has been and there always will be snoring in albergues and there always will be stories of nights of misery from those who have been kept awake thereby. Always. And all the complaints, lamentations, and shamings, as far as I can tell, have done nothing, repeat nothing, to reduce the likelihood of you finding yourself at least occasionally in the same room as a heavy snorer. If you value a good night's sleep it's up to you to take the necessary personal countermeasures. Wear earplugs - these are the ones I recommend: http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/features/2012SeptLastPg.pdf . There are similar wax ones available at farmacias in Spain. They have good noise reduction and are pretty comfortable - really almost unnoticeable - to sleep with. If you are bothered by the dawn flashlight patrol, wear a travel eye-shade. If you are a snorer you could warn others nearby and, if you are comfortable with it - which many are not, tell them they can give you a shake and ask you to roll over if they are bothered in the night. If none of this works then consider spending every 2nd or 3rd night in a pension or casa rural so you can get at least one night of uninterrupted sleep - unless of course there are parrots or sheep nearby.

Yes, earplugs are the eleventh essential.

 

[tjb1013]

Finished the Camino Francais last week and am pleased to say that no one complained about my CPAP (and I quizzed the people I got to know well), although some people did say they could hear it.

Most of the noise of my travel machine happened at the mask, which meant that I was most affected. That white noise combined with earplugs left me impervious to snorers and just about everything else, so much so that I frequently awoke in albergues to find everyone, or most everyone, already gone.

One of my best camino experiences was in Roncesvalles, where, anxious about my CPAP noise’s potential impact on close neighbors, I offered earplugs to my bunk mates. A French woman shut me down and told me (in excellent English) not to worry about it for even another second. And this was before the machine was on. Really put me at ease that night. Seeing her more than a few times in the month ahead always made me feel good.

A terrible cold moved through my pilgrim cohort, and during the worst of my experience with it, I got private accommodations because I feared I would disturb others. Was fortunate enough to be able to afford that, at least occasionally. Private pensions and single rooms at albergues are really cheap in comparison to the non-camino world.

 

[Stivandrer]

My interference with a snorer was a once-off:
At the dormitory at the nuns in Leon, the one just at the cozy little square, we had at last heard the last visitors going home as this wiry Italian in a small group of chirpy bycycling pilgrims started to snore like a wild boar!!
A surge of desperation hit me and I quickly got out of my sleeping bag and shook his bedpost violently 5-6 times ! And he abruptly stopped !!
I immediately regretted my actions, but too late, - and chances were that his mates had seen me and my stunt.
So next morning I asked him if he had a wife that complained of his snoring?
Oh yes, why? - because you obediently shut up as soon as I shook your bed last night!!
His mates laughed hard - he was a champion snorer, they said, and I felt I got some absolution when he smilingly confessed his wife was a stern critic of his nocturnal practise....

That is why, I will think twice before I would ever do this again !!

 

[David]

I never ever have had problems with snorers ... I put my earplugs in and go to sleep, wake up relaxed and recharged .. though the dorm is always empty when I wake up - Hang On! Wait a minute!!! Am I the snorer?????

 

[Icacos]

... I ..... wake up relaxed and recharged .. though the dorm is always empty when I wake up - Hang On! Wait a minute!!! Am I the snorer?????

Oh David, I know that feeling!

 

[Northern Laurie]

I am giggling quietly to this thread. Boy we humans are protective of our sleep...

One night I ponied up for a night at an inexpensive hotel. Worst night's sleep - the walls were not sound proof at all, but everyone behaved as if they were. I had the highly amorous and athletic couple on one side of me, and the compulsive conversationalist talking LOUDLY on his phone on the other.

I was very nervous about being the snorer in the albergue - it caused me a great deal of anxiety before I left. I kept reading peoples' complaints and worried I would bother people. I mentioned this one night, and a lovely pilgrim who had shared a room with me (I was the only other person in the room), said that I didn't snore, I just breathed emphatically.

If someone poked me to wake me up, I would probably feel deeply ashamed and profoundly grumpy in equal measure. If I truly woke up, it is unlikely I would fall asleep again and I would do my best to avoid seeing the person afterwards (again, the odd combination of shame and anger).

I don't think I would poke a stranger in the dark, although I can imagine situations where I might want to. I would instead seethe and rage internally about not being able to sleep. Although that never happened out of the 30 odd albergues I stayed in. Instead, it was the plastic bag rustler and the headlamps in the mirrored rooms that really got to me...

 

[Kanga]

I am amused by those who, as soon as they arrive, curl up on their bunks and sleep for hours. Then complain when they can't sleep through the night because of the noise....

 

[Northern Laurie]

@Kanga I might have been guilty of that once or twice. Although I swear I didn't complain. At least not out loud.

 

[Bob P]

Well,,, after reading so many threads on here about snoring, I was really concerned before my first Camino start back in April. I had a sleep study done and was assured that I do not have sleep apnea, but do occasionally snore. I was still worried that I might be a problem, so I got an app for my phone called "snore clock" to find out how much I snore. Using this app and my "Fitbit", I was able to gather some interesting information that I had not seen before.
The amount I snore is directly related to the room temperature!!!
The deepness of sleep also corresponds directly to the room temperature.
Below 70F, I snore light to moderate, much of the night (70 to 80%) and get very little deep sleep. The recorder let's you review the sounds and "moderate" is much less than I heard in many Albergues.
Between 72F and 75F, I snore lightly about 20% or the night and get a good amount of deep sleep.
Between 75F and 78F I do not snore at all and get a similar amount of deep sleep.
Above 78F I don't sleep much at all, and wake up constantly .
I'm sure the temperatures would vary from person to person, but I have now noticed that in the colder rooms, there are more people are snoring.

As to the subject of waking people up. NEVER! I had man come to my bed on a cold night, (when someone had left the window open) and he let out a blood-curdling scream. He thought it was a funny way to wake me up. I "firmly" expressed to him that if it happened again he may never wake up from his sleep again. He did not repeat his "stunt" and was gone when I awoke the next morning. Maybe that thought caused him some sleep problems

 

[Anthony18]

It's funny how people want to share rooms and bathroom facilities with strangers, but they don't want to be annoyed by certain sounds and scents. You're dealing with people, and it comes with the territory when you stay in albuergues. I say grin and bear it or get a private room. Don't even think about waking me up!!

 

[dfunghi]

1. Earplugs are uncomfortable and not too effective for some people.

Not trying to hijack or steer thread but I have found the best earplugs ever. I have used this several times for several things but the best were my custom fit ear plugs. I am sure this product can be found easy enough I just used this link to display what it is. Simply mix two compounds and squish into your ear, nice and deep. wait 20-30 minutes and pull it out. Next time you use it it fits so deep and snug. Also really comfortable and won't slip out. I also had my wife etch a tiny "L" in one so I would know which was which. They are hard to fit if not in correct ear.
Silicone Putty

 

[KinkyOne]

Well,,, after reading so many threads on here about snoring, I was really concerned before my first Camino start back in April. I had a sleep study done and was assured that I do not have sleep apnea, but do occasionally snore. I was still worried that I might be a problem, so I got an app for my phone called "snore clock" to find out how much I snore. Using this app and my "Fitbit", I was able to gather some interesting information that I had not seen before.
The amount I snore is directly related to the room temperature!!!
The deepness of sleep also corresponds directly to the room temperature.
Below 70F, I snore light to moderate, much of the night (70 to 80%) and get very little deep sleep. The recorder let's you review the sounds and "moderate" is much less than I heard in many Albergues.
Between 72F and 75F, I snore lightly about 20% or the night and get a good amount of deep sleep.
Between 75F and 78F I do not snore at all and get a similar amount of deep sleep.
Above 78F I don't sleep much at all, and wake up constantly .
I'm sure the temperatures would vary from person to person, but I have now noticed that in the colder rooms, there are more people are snoring.

As to the subject of waking people up. NEVER! I had man come to my bed on a cold night, (when someone had left the window open) and he let out a blood-curdling scream. He thought it was a funny way to wake me up. I "firmly" expressed to him that if it happened again he may never wake up from his sleep again. He did not repeat his "stunt" and was gone when I awoke the next morning. Maybe that thought caused him some sleep problems

Very interesting, Bob!

What's that app that you were using?


K1

 

[Bob P]

App name is "Snore Clock". It was a freebie on the app store and requires connecting phone to charger because it actually records the entire night, then creates a profile of intensity and percentage of snoring (red zone) for that night. You can also go to any point in the night and review to hear exactly what it sounded like. I now "know" I am not a "wall rattler".
My Fitbit measures the sleep stages, light, deep, REM and awake.
The digital thermometer by my bed measured the temperatures.

Yes, I got more analytical than most people would, but I didn't want to find out I was a "dino-snore" at the alberques.

I will suggest that you do NOT record your wife and share it with her the next morning.

 

[long trails]

I think all the red wine that's drunk on the camino does not help the snoring problem. Maybe those who know they snore loud when tipsy should refrain from too much vino tinto?

This would be a small way to show respect to your fellow pilgrims. We all have to share the same space and giving up wine for a few nights won't harm anyone, apart from the supermarkets and bars.

 

[Ferdinand the Bull]

"...because of the amount of older men..." !
Ha ha ha, one of the most funny comments I have read for a long time.....I am one of those older men, who apparenbtly makes the Caminos bad.... LOL!

 

[Viva Terlingua]

I snore loudly, not that I've ever heard it, but I've been told. Despite what a few posters think, I do not do it on purpose. I'm not overweight, I don't have sleep apnea (I've been tested), and I never sleep on my back. So, I'm not sure what waking me up would accomplish. I did part of the camino last year and stayed in hotels, so I didn't bother anyone. I would like to do the whole camino in 2019. Although I can easily afford to stay in hotels every night, I thought I would like to experience communal living at least a few nights. However, given the animosity of some of the people here, I think I will just stay in a private room every night.

BTW, when I was in college I was in a fraternity. One of the duties as a freshman was to be on wakeup duty once a week. People would sign up the night before for what time they would like to be woken up. This was to avoid waking others with an alarm clock. There was one guy who was notorious for trying to hit whoever woke him up (not on purpose, just reflexes), so we were very careful when waking him up. I'd hate to think what would happen to the unsuspecting person that would try to wake him up in an albergue.

 

[alexwalker]

Snoring is no problem. Use earplugs. However, once on the VdlP, I was trapped inside a little room without windows with 4 old French guys. They were masters of farting. It was a terrible night. Green air...

 

[Deleted member 3000]

However, given the animosity of some of the people here, I think I will just stay in a private room every night.

That is nice of you, but don't.

 

[Ferdinand the Bull]

I snore loudly, not that I've ever heard it, but I've been told. Despite what a few posters think, I do not do it on purpose. I'm not overweight, I don't have sleep apnea (I've been tested), and I never sleep on my back. So, I'm not sure what waking me up would accomplish. I did part of the camino last year and stayed in hotels, so I didn't bother anyone. I would like to do the whole camino in 2019. Although I can easily afford to stay in hotels every night, I thought I would like to experience communal living at least a few nights. However, given the animosity of some of the people here, I think I will just stay in a private room every night.

BTW, when I was in college I was in a fraternity. One of the duties as a freshman was to be on wakeup duty once a week. People would sign up the night before for what time they would like to be woken up. This was to avoid waking others with an alarm clock. There was one guy who was notorious for trying to hit whoever woke him up (not on purpose, just reflexes), so we were very careful when waking him up. I'd hate to think what would happen to the unsuspecting person that would try to wake him up in an albergue.

Don't mind the angry people. Snoring is part and parcel of the Camino. So is farting, noisy people in the early morning as well as sunshine, nice and friendly people, beautiful nature etc. Be considerate (you obviously are judged by your post) but accept you cannot be friends with everyone.....So try to sleep in an albergue. It's a great way to meet other and often very nice and very interesting people. Go for it!

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Has anybody come across Sleeep earplugs before?

I'm a firm proselyte to noise cancelling headphone (love my BOSE) but have never come across these before. A hiking buddy who is thinking of walking a Camino next year is put off by the probability of sharing with a snorer (why she asked ME I'll never know )

The cost isn't exorbitant but she's hoping for somebody with genuine experience rather than trust a web-review.

Thanks in anticipation.

 

[Juanajoanna]

Hey Jeff, please let us know how the Sleeep earplugs work. They sound interesting.
Joanne

 

[trecile]

I looked up those Sleeep earplugs on Amazon. They have mixed reviews. Seems like avlot of people find them uncomfortable. One review mentioned bruising. I also noticed other similar earplugs at lower prices.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

I looked up those Sleeep earplugs on Amazon. They have mixed reviews. Seems like avlot of people find them uncomfortable. One review mentioned bruising. I also noticed other similar earplugs at lower prices.

Exactly what Annie was worried about. Personally I'm a side sleeper and if I go for a siesta I have to take my hearing aids out otherwise they irritate. Moldex are my favourite sponge plugs - the ones advertised on eBay as "Sparkplugs" (Google Translate doesn't always get it right!) but she's worried they might get lodged in the ear channel though I've never had a problem.

 

[John Finn]

For what it's worth, the best earplugs I've purchased are these beeswax ones made in the USA:

https://earplugsonline.com/

I've tried various other store-bought ones but none were effective. If (like me) you are a light sleeper and have been kept awake by snorers in albergues then I would strongly suggest you purchase some.

 

[Deleted member 39850]

I bought their first generation and found them nearly useless. I need quiet to work, and find hallway chatter where I work to be very distracting. Snoring makes me crazy because it’s not rhythmic and even, and seems like each time I’m nodding off there is some loud intrusion to wake me. The cost of the Flare earplugs was high enough that I was not willing to try with a second generation. I bought Bose noise cancellers for most of my daily life, and for sleeping in dorms I use the newest generation of Apple headphones (they are small enough and shaped in a way that does not hurt my ears) and a white noise app.