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Any ideas? - short of putting one's walking stick in their spokes?
Tobey
Hola TobeyThe only downside to this trip were 95% of the Peregrinos who were riding their bikes.
The temptation can be nearly overwhelming!short of putting one's walking stick in their spokes?
I'm so glad you said it, Don Pedro! I totally agree that the percentage of rude cyclers was closer to 5%. Altho it is sad that we couldn't form relationships with these folks whizzing along at 10X our speed, I found the cyclers to be delightful company once we all stopped and shared libations in the evening! Live and let live.Hola Tobey
Having walked the Frances at about the same time you did, I had a different perception. I would reverse your percentages to say that about 5% of the bikers did not behave, while the vast majority were polite, trying to fit-in as peregrinos by greeting politely and carefully minding us walkers. This was especially so along the first 2/3rds of the way, the closer to Sarria and beyond, the more bikers became annoying by their sheer number, but really rude encounters were rare.
I agree with you though, that the cyclists ought to be restricted to paved roads, simply because the walking tracks are too busy; the regional authorities could easily separate the two peregrino-categories by invoking existing laws and by marking the bicycle routes with differently coloured arrows or whatever. This would give the walkers a right to protest and quickly drive the bikers off the trails.
The bikers should understand the Camino as a long-distance cruise rather than a mountain-biking adventure because they are less agile than the walkers and their silent speed can be very dangerous for both. Aggression on either side however is not a solution. Why doesn't the office of peregrinos in Santiago conduct simple polls while issuing the compostelas, to give a voice to all pilgrims; this would help to make authorities aware, not only of the biker issue but of other problems like hygiene, pollution (the toilet-paper trail) too.
Pierre aka Don Pedro
Your'e preaching to the converted on this Forum cobber.
Being a Bike Rider and a sailor myself, the SOP is that Overtaking Traffic Must Keep Clear!
And to walkers. Don't give the cyclists and inch!a trail open to cyclists
" there IS a real danger. I nearly got hit
If I were Queen of the Camino, I would require every pilgrim to sign a statement before they were issued a credential that they would agree to comply with certain rules in exchange for the privilege of walking the Camino. One would be to not to leave ANY litter on the road or anywhere else except a trash container. And you could give the peregrino a small garbage bag with their credential to get started, and include the cost of the bag in the cost of the credential. It is easy enough to get more plastic bags along the way.
Another rule might apply to cyclists that they announce themselves as they come up to a walker. And I am sure there would be other good reminders. It's not that such a statement would be enforceable, legally or otherwise, but it would help educate people and remind people of common courtesies.
Oh, dear …… I'm afraid I might have been tempted to take the opportunity to accidentally put my sticks through his wheel...... AND almost accidently put my sticks through his wheel.
Hi Linda -If I were Queen of the Camino, I would require every pilgrim to sign a statement before they were issued a credential that they would agree to comply with certain rules in exchange for the privilege of walking the Camino. One would be to not to leave ANY litter on the road or anywhere else except a trash container. And you could give the peregrino a small garbage bag with their credential to get started, and include the cost of the bag in the cost of the credential. It is easy enough to get more plastic bags along the way.
Another rule might apply to cyclists that they announce themselves as they come up to a walker. And I am sure there would be other good reminders. It's not that such a statement would be enforceable, legally or otherwise, but it would help educate people and remind people of common courtesies.
My Wife and I hiked from SJPDP to Santiago September/October 2013. Wonderful trip! Fabulous People and scenery, amazing Villages, and a spectrum of places to stay. The only downside to this trip were 95% of the Peregrinos who were riding their bikes. First off, Thank You to the 5% who either announced their approach or simply slowed down to pass the walkers. You were Great and almost made up for the others.
The "Others" rode by at 3X or 5X or even 10X the speed of the walkers without so much as ringing a bell, calling out "On Your Left (Right) or Vorsicht/Pas auf or any other kind of warning. Narrow trails, narrow roads, wide roads - did not matter! Were they Spanish, French, German, English, American? Who knows.
Being a Bike Rider and a sailor myself, the SOP is that Overtaking Traffic Must Keep Clear! But that courtesy and safety practice seemed to be unknown to the vast majority of the bike riders.
They became traffic on our "threat boards" - a reason to "Check 6" and a matter of medium level anxiety. They totally endangered the walkers and themselves. A collision could cause injuries and then what? Where would one obtain medical aid? And when would it arrive, if ever?
Any ideas? - short of putting one's walking stick in their spokes?
Tobey
So, I agree it is not pleasant, but it is what it is. It is not my place to make the rules for other countries.
During my many caminos I noticed that walkers are very slow to give way to cyclists, when warned by bells, whistle
Don't give the cyclists and inch!
I love it!!!and so what if they are startled after I am past.
I cycle on occasion. I'm not decided if it is worth buying a bell. When I yell 'passing on your left' the pedestrian is as likely to weave into your path as out of it, greatly increasing the probability for collision. If I don't say anything they just walk straight, a much more predictable situation, and so what if they are startled after I am past.
That being said ... some trails should not have bikes on them. Trails clearly suffer from erosion exacerbated by bikes. Wilderness parks where I live don't allow bikes on trails in part due to potential for conflict with bears and other wild life that are more likely to avoid contact with a slower moving hiker. Camino Frances is a candidate for bike bans due to the volume of people walking on it.
The other day on a section of the Camino, a cyclist was speeding down the narrow, twisting, mountain.
As he rode fast towards some pilgrims sitting by a sharp bend having lunch they all looked at him, jumped up and started waving and shouting
"PIG! PIG!!" ... "PIG! PIG!!"
So he flipped them the finger, zoomed past, and shouted back some things I would rather not repeat.
Smiling with false superiority he flashed around the bend and promptly collided with a pig.
If you have a little spare time while walking, you can drag logs across the trail, or stack rocks at the end of a blind curve. That would slow down the bicycles...
David! You're ON FIRE today! Two hilarious posts! I'm going to tell your "PIG! PIG!" joke at the next Pilgrims in Sydney meeting! Thanks for the laughs.The other day on a section of the Camino, a cyclist was speeding down the narrow, twisting, mountain.
As he rode fast towards some pilgrims sitting by a sharp bend having lunch they all looked at him, jumped up and started waving and shouting
"PIG! PIG!!" ... "PIG! PIG!!"
So he flipped them the finger, zoomed past, and shouted back some things I would rather not repeat.
Smiling with false superiority he flashed around the bend and promptly collided with a pig.
Ah! there is the answer! We introduce bears onto the Camino - result!
New Zealand has a problem with introduced species such as deer. They periodically go around with a helicopter armed with a machine gun and while away a few happy hours culling the herd. A more obvious solution (I thought) would be to introduce wolves ... an idea that apparently doesn't sit well with the locals.
There would likely be similar irrational opposition to reintroducing bears to the north of Spain. Even if it is in the community spirited interests of keeping the cycling population under control.
David, you ARE on a roll today!Your New Zealand deer fly helicopters? and they have machine guns? Crikey! Not much venison in the restaurants then!
Falcon was doing humour - I thought it quite funny
Hi Friends,Oh, dear …… I'm afraid I might have been tempted to take the opportunity to accidentally put my sticks through his wheel.
Yes. See above.I'm sure if I make a few about assaulting walkers Falcon will be just rolling on the floor in laughter.
I love how it does not matter that someone was startled as long as the danger to the biker has passed.I love it!!!attachFull6877and so what if they are startled after I am past.
There are bears in Spain. To avoid them, cyclists should smear themselves in fish paste, which acts as a deterrent....New Zealand has a problem with introduced species such as deer. They periodically go around with a helicopter armed with a machine gun and while away a few happy hours culling the herd. A more obvious solution (I thought) would be to introduce wolves ... an idea that apparently doesn't sit well with the locals.
There would likely be similar irrational opposition to reintroducing bears to the north of Spain. Even if it is in the community spirited interests of keeping the cycling population under control.
I have been watching and wondering whether you had all reverted to being 12yo schoolboys at the back of the bike shed plotting devious schemes against you least favourite teachers. All full of bluster and bravado until discovered, and then amazingly meek and mild upon discovery!Newfydog - I really do think, that like others on this thread, Falcon was doing humour - I thought it quite funny .. and as Falc doesn't attempt too much humour let us not put him off the idea! He did add a smiley wink to show he was having fun.
There are bears in Spain. To avoid them, cyclists should smear themselves in fish paste, which acts as a deterrent....
The "Others" rode by at 3X or 5X or even 10X the speed of the walkers without so much as ringing a bell, calling out "On Your Left (Right) or Vorsicht/Pas auf or any other kind of warning.
I've not been on my (walking) camino yet so don't know how much any of this is a problem I guess though it's just like all walks of life (as it were); there are a minority of people who think they're more important than everyone else and a majority who are naturally just considerate to others. Maybe we shouldn't expect anything different.
Then there is the problem that there is a significant proportion of us who are culturally attuned to cyclists passing on the right, and we have a conditioned response to move to the left on hearing a shout or a bell.The old shouting out or ringing a bell thing is a tricky one. Walkers don't always hear things correctly picking up a "....mppphh mmpphh LEFT! and assuming that they heard "keep left" when, in fact, "on your left" was shouted. A bell invariably causes people to turn round and move sideways in some completely unpredictable direction to the cyclist.
And if the walker has a hearing problem?
Brilliant idea, the spare bearer can do that...Do sedan chairs have to have someone walking in front with a red flag?
Then there is the problem that there is a significant proportion of us who are culturally attuned to cyclists passing on the right, and we have a conditioned response to move to the left on hearing a shout or a bell.
The other day on a section of the Camino, a cyclist was speeding down the narrow, twisting, mountain.
As he rode fast towards some pilgrims sitting by a sharp bend having lunch they all looked at him, jumped up and started waving and shouting
"PIG! PIG!!" ... "PIG! PIG!!"
So he flipped them the finger, zoomed past, and shouted back some things I would rather not repeat.
Smiling with false superiority he flashed around the bend and promptly collided with a pig.
Bike barrier on the Primitivo….
In my experience, I'd say 99% of cyclists have passed with a "Buen Camino" and I've never had any close calls or felt in danger of being hit.
I cycle on occasion. I'm not decided if it is worth buying a bell. When I yell 'passing on your left' the pedestrian is as likely to weave into your path as out of it, greatly increasing the probability for collision. If I don't say anything they just walk straight, a much more predictable situation, and so what if they are startled after I am past.
That being said ... some trails should not have bikes on them. Trails clearly suffer from erosion exacerbated by bikes. Wilderness parks where I live don't allow bikes on trails in part due to potential for conflict with bears and other wild life that are more likely to avoid contact with a slower moving hiker. Camino Frances is a candidate for bike bans due to the volume of people walking on it.
Priceless!Smiling with false superiority he flashed around the bend and promptly collided with a pig.
I really wanted to cry when I read many of the entries here.....
I had one hairy moment when two very large pantechnicons overloaded with logs passed me going downhill at some speed and I had trouble keeping the bike from toppling over. At that moment my thought was "perhaps I should have used the path"...
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