Albergue idea - group snorers together, away from non-snorers

[JustJack]

I would have loved to come across an albergue that grouped pilgrims according to their whether or not they snore. Snorers all go in one room, non-snorers in another. What's wrong with this idea?

 

[joeboybollo]

Yes,

I would have loved to come across an albergue that grouped pilgrims according to their whether or not they snore. Snorers all go in one room, non-snorers in another. What's wrong with this idea?

Yes,all go and sleep in the naughty dorm

 

[jungleboy]

What's wrong with this idea?

That it separates couples/families/friends who consist of snorers and non-snorers, that snorers can also be affected by other snorers, that some people snore sometimes and not other times based on sleeping position, alcohol intake and other factors, that it’s a form of discrimination, that the albergue room/bed layout is very unlikely to match the ratio of snorers to non-snorers on any given day, and probably several other reasons.

Can you not just use effective earplugs?

 

[joeboybollo]

Yes,

Yes,all go and sleep in the naughty dorm

With me!

 

[JustJack]

That it separates couples/families who consist of snorers and non-snorers, that snorers can also be affected by other snorers, that some people snore sometimes and not other times based on sleeping position, alcohol intake and other factors, that it’s a form of discrimination, that the albergue room/bed layout is very unlikely to match the ratio of snorers to non-snorers on a daily basis, and probably several other reasons.

Can you not just use effective earplugs?

I appreciate there would be some logistical problems, and it would be voluntary, but I think there's some merit to the idea. There are some people that snore every night, all night, and do so loudly. Personally, if I was that person I'd feel very guilty any time I booked a bed in a dorm room, knowing full well that I'm about to ruin the sleep for every other person in that room. Those people should have an option for sleeping somewhere that won't ruin everyone's sleep.

I tried earplugs, but some snorers are simply too loud. All I could do in those cases was blast music in my earbuds, but once the music ended the snoring was back...

 

[Flog]

What's wrong with this idea?

A great idea in theory, but well...
The fundamental problem, aside from discrimination, would seem to be identifying them beforehand.
Oftentimes snorers are oblivious or in denial, in which case they're unlikely to volunteer themselves to sleep in banishment..

I remember on my first camino.. it was in Villafranca de Bierzo and I was embarrassed at being asked by one of the group of middle aged women from a certain continent 'if I snored'... what with me being the only man in the dorm with about 10 women and everything.. well, they themselves, most of them it seemed anyway, snored and farted their way through the whole night, keeping me awake. I never saw them again though, I must have gotten ahead and upwind of them.

But such snoring quarters do exist. The very next day in Ruitelan, Luis offered a separate room to a self confessed loud snorer who was delighted with a room to himself .. and I was to hear later of many other such places..

But if you really want or need to be guaranteed of a peaceful night, then perhaps you need to go find a hotel for yourself..

 

[JustJack]

But if you really want or need to be guaranteed of a peaceful night, then perhaps you need to go find a hotel for yourself..

Yes ultimately that's the only real answer. And something I did about once a week. Not a hotel, but a private room. If I had an unlimited budget I would have opted for private rooms more often than once a week.

 

[Flog]

I do the same... also about once a week or so, a private room to spread out and get a sense of myself back, a late beer too.. them I'm good to go back at it again..

 

[Blister Bill]

...and a separate room for the early morning bag rustlers, and those who like to walk in the dark and disturb everyone when they leave, and those who come back late a little merry, and those that go to the loo in the middle of the night.....will be one heck of an Alberque !

 

[Anhalter]

While we are at it, we should also seggregrate people that use headlamps indoors, leave the door to the lit hallway open, set the alarm to 5am or loudly pack their stuff inside the dorm at a time which has to be discussed but is earlier than i want to wake up... at least with the snorers i can use earplugs.

edit: @Blister Bill : It's kind of scary that we wrote pretty much the same at the same moment.

 

[Blister Bill]

While we are at it, we should also seggregrate people that use headlamps indoors, leave the door to the lit hallway open, set the alarm to 5am or loudly pack their stuff inside the dorm at a time which has to be discussed but is earlier than i want to wake up... at least with the snorers i can use earplugs.

edit: @Blister Bill : It's kind of scary that we wrote pretty much the same at the same moment.

I had more, but didnt' want to upset the aussies

 

[JustJack]

...and a separate room for the early morning bag rustlers, and those who like to walk in the dark and disturb everyone when they leave, and those who come back late a little merry, and those that go to the loo in the middle of the night.....will be one heck of an Alberque !

Nope, just the excessively loud snorers. The other disturbances you've mentioned are minor and short-lived.

 

[Flog]

Nope, just the excessively loud snorers. The other disturbances you've mentioned are minor and short-lived.

And then there's this problem.. who decides what it is that bothers who? Albergue sleeping entails a whole range of potentially irritating behaviour which we can decide at the outset, if we want to put up with it or not.. and we have a choice.

I'm not saying your idea isn't good in principal, just that it's not at all easy to implement effectively. And it's one more step towards sanitizing and sterilizing the whole pilgrim (is that word still allowed?) experience.

 

[JustJack]

And then there's this problem.. who decides what it is that bothers who? Albergue sleeping entails a whole range of potentially irritating behaviour which we can decide at the outset, if we want to put up with it or not.. and we have a choice.

I'm not saying your idea isn't good in principal, just that it's not at all easy to implement effectively. And it's one more step towards sanitizing and sterilizing the whole pilgrim (is that word still allowed?) experience.

As I mentioned, it would be entirely voluntary. Snorers would self-identify, and agree to sleep in the snoring room. I don't think anyone's pilgrim experience will be sanitized and negatively affected by having fewer people snoring in the dorms.

And I of course don't ever expect to see this happen. I was basically joking when I posted this. But since I just returned from the CF and it's still fresh on my mind, I thought I'd share this thought that I had on many nights...

 

[Bumpa]

I was lying in my lower bunk reading one late afternoon before I went out for a meal. A male, 40 or 50ish, came to the side of my bunk, in bikini briefs, and spoke for some length to the person in the bunk above me. The odour coming off him in waves was almost visible. He, later, went to bed in the lower beside me without visiting the shower room. I watched for him when I checked into succeeding albergues.

People are people and don't change ingrained habits just because they are on a Camino. One of the first things we learn is these behaviours will definitely occur. Then it is up to each of us to determine how much we are bothered and what are we going to do about it. Forcing fellow pilgrims to go to a hotel with their odour, snoring, raucous laughter or early/late bed habits is more than I can see as being owed to me.

If, on past Caminos, I have had difficulty sleeping; I have occasionally availed myself of a private room. I am always aware that there is the possibility that, unawares, I am disturbing people.

After my friend Steve and I had spent numerous days on the Camino Frances, he raised a point with me.
I hike in a hikers kilt which is kept in place around the waist with a wide velcro strip. I thought that I was being quiet when I got up to visit the toilet in the late hours. He advised me one day on my deck, having a drink with my wife, that when I came back from the toilet and removed the kilt, sound of the velcro releasing was almost sonic. To the point that one poor pilgrim sat up and hit his head on the top bunk over him.

The point is: we point fingers but sometimes we are unaware of what parts of our behaviour are disturbing to others. I still wear the kilt but hold it together rather than use the velcro.

 

[JustJack]

The point is: we point fingers but sometimes we are unaware of what parts of our behaviour are disturbing to others. I still wear the kilt but hold it together rather than use the velcro.

In addition to us all developing a tolerance and patience for those we are sharing our spaces with, I think it's also fair to ask that those around us also develop an understanding for how their behaviour affects others. While it may not be realistic to expect others to change their behaviour, it's fair to hope for that. We're living in a society, as George Castanza of Seinfeld once expressed, and the guy that smelled so bad it was almost visible should be under just as much pressure to clean himself up as others are to tolerate his smell. It goes both ways.

 

[dick bird]

I would have loved to come across an albergue that grouped pilgrims according to their whether or not they snore. Snorers all go in one room, non-snorers in another. What's wrong with this idea?

How do you tell the difference?

 

[sid gustafson]

I would have loved to come across an albergue that grouped pilgrims according to their whether or not they snore. Snorers all go in one room, non-snorers in another. What's wrong with this idea?

the heavy duty apple headphones are the only way to sleep in dorms, bose likewise. A bit weighty, but well worth all the pleasant dreams and sleeps that did not involve noise disturbances, ear warmers on chilly days.

 

[JustJack]

the heavy duty apple headphones are the only way to sleep in dorms, bose likewise. A bit weighty, but well worth all the pleasant dreams and sleeps that did not involve noise disturbances, ear warmers on chilly days.

I think you may be right, and I'll be looking into noise-cancelling headphones for my next camino. I don't think my idea of banishing the snorers to another room is going to fly...

 

[dick bird]

banishing the snorers to another room is going to fly..

In particular when it is discovered that a particularly large and imposing male snorer has somehow inveigled his way into the wrong dorm.

 

[Nick B]

Yes banish the snorers to their own room right next door to the flatulators....

 

[DoughnutANZ]

I admit to snoring occasionally. A couple of days ago I was in the bottom bunk and a slightly younger woman was in the top bunk.

When she first walked in and saw me on the bottom bunk she gave me a bad look and I wondered what that was about?

Later that night I woke up to a thumping sound. I was a bit puzzled, then I noticed that the woman above me seemed to be kicking the bed, vigorously! So vigorously that I thought that she was going to fall out of bed.

Weird. I wondered if perhaps she had cramp but it stopped and so I drifted back to sleep.

Later, I again woke up to the thumping, drifted back to sleep and again wakened.

I lay there wondering if I should ask her if she needed help, then half drifted off to sleep and heard myself snore and immediately the thumping restarted and so I figured that this is what was happening.

I went to sleep and eventually started snoring and she would start thumping until I woke up and then the cycle repeated. Meanwhile the other people in the room were also snoring but that didn't seem to trigger her, only me snoring.

The night proceeded in this fashion. I did get some sleep but not a lot but somehow I doubt that the woman got any sleep at all. She was so focused on detecting my snoring and waking me up by jumping up and down and kicking her mattress that she must have been absolutely exhausted the next day.

If she had just ignored me we would have both got a lot more sleep.

 

[Dani7]

Nice thought and idea. Will never happen.

 

[trecile]

Will never happen.

Truer words were never spoken!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

On the Meseta, in one of the few albergues I was in with single beds, about ten beds per room, there was only one snorer, and he was an extremely loud snoring man. He kept me awake a large part of the night and I thought to myself, "I hope I never see him again at the same place I will be staying." The very next night I was staying in a very large albergue with 49 beds, divided into two sections. Not only did this man stay at the same place, but his bunk bed was right across from mine.

 

[J Willhaus]

At Arres this summer while volunteering, we had a pilgrim who was a self-professed snorer. It had been so bad that on previous nights, others had woken him and he slept on the kitchen floor. We put him in a separate room and then another snorer arrived whose wife was used to the noise so we had a room with 3 and a room with 5 non-snorers that night. It worked well.

 

[Vacajoe]

I’d rather see early risers and their headlamps placed into a room by themselves where they can listen to their alarms and rustle their bags while packing to their hearts’ content at zero-dark thirty, leaving the rest of us to sleep until the sun rises…

 

[dougfitz]

I had more, but didnt' want to upset the aussies

I understand. We are such delicate and sensitive creatures!

 

[dougfitz]

I don't think my idea of banishing the snorers to another room is going to fly...

Hardly suprizing given the language you are using. Any banishment should be for those intolerant individuals who dislike the sound of snoring. I would also suggest that the room they are banished to is unheated in winter, uncooled in summer and they are prevented from showering until all the hot water has run out. People who are prepared to accept others for what they are would be welcome in the comfortable main dormitory and have priority on showers while there is hot water.

 

[C clearly]

@JustJack , you had a lot of interesting questions and concerns about your Camino over the months leading up to it. I am wondering if you might like to comment on some of those threads about your perspective now.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Hardly suprizing given the language you are using. Any banishment should be for those intolerant individuals who dislike the sound of snoring

Geez Dou, that’s a bit sharp, even for you! And talk about the pot calling the kettle black…. . Whether both of you are/were joking is rather now beside the point.
Personally I don’t think the concept is that far off. As a Hostel manager I occasionally had self-aware heavy snorers approach me for assistance. I was always appreciative of their consideration.
As a light sleeper, I always use earplugs, but there are times when loud snoring cuts through everything.
And yes, you could call it a form of discrimination, but if it’s voluntary self discrimination, where is the issue? Much like a smoker that distance’s themselves from their companions before lighting up. Again, very considerate.
I appreciate that many people are unfortunately not considerate; with some I’ve found that’s it’s simply a lack of awareness. 30 years ago I often had (primarily) Japanese backpackers rustling plastic bag’s in the dorms, once I posted a very polite note advising of the distress this could cause others it stopped almost overnight.
And if voluntary segregation sounds reasonable to an Albergue owner (above), perhaps it’s worthy of consideration?

 

[VNwalking]

If she had just ignored me we would have both got a lot more sleep.

Yes, ok. But when someone snores loudly that's not an option. The snoring doesn't ever seem to disturb the person doing it, but it can keep a whole roomful of people awake.

 

[malingerer]

I appreciate there would be some logistical problems, and it would be voluntary, but I think there's some merit to the idea. There are some people that snore every night, all night, and do so loudly. Personally, if I was that person I'd feel very guilty any time I booked a bed in a dorm room, knowing full well that I'm about to ruin the sleep for every other person in that room. Those people should have an option for sleeping somewhere that won't ruin everyone's sleep.

I tried earplugs, but some snorers are simply too loud. All I could do in those cases was blast music in my earbuds, but once the music ended the snoring was back...

Hmmm! would be tempted to blast the snorer instead of my ears ! Besides, my love dove wouldn't like it, she being one of the offenders

Samarkand

 

[Lindsay53]

Some people fail to understand the concept of communal living. Actions with the persons control, like noisy early departures and arriving back late after a glass or three of vino and disturbing everyone can rightly be called out. However snoring, farting, coughing etc. are to be expected and adjusted to. I am a relatively early starter, around 0630 usually and I minimise my noise by being mostly packed the previous evening and taking all my stuff to the common area to finish off. Occasionally I have left the albergue and gone out into the street to finish packing.

In my ideal albergue the lights would go on at 0600 and anyone departing could make as much noise after that as they liked.

 

[B1nky]

Reminds me of a story I heard about a bothy (mountain shelter) in Wales where a group which included a heavy snorer volunteered to sleep in the adjoining wood shed so they wouldn't disturb others who were using the place!

I don't think seperating snorers would work as some people are unaware that they snore and one person's idea of "too loud" may differ from another's. Unless people record themselves before starting their camino and each albergue has a particular decibel limit I can't see it working.

I agree with Lindsay53 in that natural sleeping noises just have to be expected and adjusted to, however people's inconsiderate behaviour can be called out.

 

[VNwalking]

Separating scorers is impossible.
But snorers can separate themselves. When someone knows they snore loudly they can always stay in single rooms or other accommodation - if they can afford it, that is. It would be a huge act of kindness.

 

[Blister Bill]

Imagine being the poor non-snoring sod who turns up late to find the only spare bed is in the snorers room or worse the farters room

 

[jungleboy]

And yes, you could call it a form of discrimination, but if it’s voluntary self discrimination, where is the issue?

It wasn’t presented as voluntary in the original post, only subsequently.

 

[dougfitz]

It would be a huge act of kindness.

You would think so. But much like carrying and using a CPAP, in my experience, this doesn't get remarked upon nor are there any thanks offered by those who benefit from such kindness.

 

[VNwalking]

this doesn't get remarked upon nor are there any thanks offered by those who benefit from such kindness

Kindness is it's own reward. People will express appreciation or they won't - that's irrelevant. Unless you're being kind for the sake of acknowledgement, that is.

As far as the CPAP is concerned, have you considered that the lack of acknowledgement is because many wouldn't know a CPAP if they tripped over it?

 

[dougfitz]

Geez Dou, that’s a bit sharp, even for you! And talk about the pot calling the kettle black…. . Whether both of you are/were joking is rather now beside the point.

Possibly. I was prepared to accept the OP trying to back-peddle this to suggest it was a joke, but when words like 'banishing' got used, I stopped being prepared to do that.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

But much like carrying and using a CPAP, in my experience, this doesn't get remarked upon nor are there any thanks offered by those who benefit from such kindness.

As far as the CPAP is concerned, have you considered that the lack of acknowledgement is because many wouldn't know a CPAP if they tripped over it?

I’d be one such. I believe I know what they do, but Doug, I don’t understand how they benefit others? And I wouldn’t comment on it, in the same way that I wouldn’t comment on anything else that suggested a medical condition. Just curious

 

[J Willhaus]

My husband and I both use a CPAP and I can say that they create the possibility for a more healthy and restful sleep and cut out the snoring you would hear from both of us in the bunk room.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Interesting. The first part I knew- in that they relieve sleep apnea, hence the benefit to the user- but I didnt realise that those who suffer from it also snored

 

[J Willhaus]

Interesting. The first part I knew- in that they relieve sleep apnea, hence the benefit to the user- but I didnt realise that those who suffer from it also snored

Snoring can be one of the first indications. Not all snoring is dangerous to the health, but a lot of the epic snorers in albergues have the kind of snoring where you stop breathing. I feel sorry for them rather than condemning them...

 

[good_old_shoes]

A room for the snorers sounds like a good idea, it would be nice to have. Also a room for those who want to leave very early. But I guess most albergues can't afford to keep a room empty just in case a self proclaimed massive snorer checks in, or for someone who confesses they want to leave at 4am, certainly not in high season.

Snoring is completely natural. I'll happily endure a snoring contest of otherwise wonderful pilgrims. In the summer heat, it is normal that people start walking early. As long as they at least try to be quiet, I don't see the problem.

Now, people who are completely oblivious to common dormitory rules and/or deliberately ignore them because they simply don't care at all, that's what sometimes annoys me.

In general I think snoring, farting, people going to the bathroom at night and leaving early ect. are to be expected in a common room. I don't mind that. If I want some quiet time away from that, I sleep in my tent. Those who don't have a tent could take a private room from time to time.

 

[VNwalking]

Now, people who are completely oblivious to common dormitory rules and/or deliberately ignore them because they simply don't care at all, that's what sometimes annoys me.

Ditto.

I feel sorry for them rather than condemning them...

One of the loudest snorers I've ever encountered was a guy you couldn't help but love. But he kept all of us awake at night because of the snoring, with very long pauses. Clearly he had sleep apnea, and I was not the only person lying awake, praying he'd take another breath.
Compassion indeed.

 

[Sidknee]

I would have loved to come across an albergue that grouped pilgrims according to their whether or not they snore. Snorers all go in one room, non-snorers in another. What's wrong with this idea?

I think people who complain about snorers are usually secret snorers themselves.

Maybe they should ban non-snorers from albergues. Thinking that may solve the problem…or would it? Those pesky non-snorers would complain about being discriminated against.

In all seriousness, I’ve found that after the first few days I’m so tired, I sleep through fiestas, groups talking, passing traffic and snorers with ease.

As my snorer mate said to me think of it as your Camino penance.

Buen Camino…zzzzz…ughhh…zzzzz

 

[gkr]

I would have loved to come across an albergue that grouped pilgrims according to their whether or not they snore. Snorers all go in one room, non-snorers in another. What's wrong with this idea?

Nothing. But, what if others with other body function audio capability want similar recognition? What if they have more than one capability..?

 

[Sidknee]

I would have loved to come across an albergue that grouped pilgrims according to their whether or not they snore. Snorers all go in one room, non-snorers in another. What's wrong with this idea?

And while we’re in the mood for banishing people and things…let’s get rid of plastic shopping bags (and pilgrims who use them) and toilet paper scattered around and behind trees (ban pilgrims who don’t clean up after themselves and or dispose of their waste appropriately) and pilgrims who feel the need to scratch or write their name on everything…

Gee the list is endless of people we should ban…

Buen Camino

 

[Dennis Pack]

Or, we could just accept there are a lot of things in life that may not be to our liking ... and adapt.
Isn't that part of our caminos? Adversity, problems, solutions ... getting out of our comfort zones and extending our world experiences ... tolerating others ...
Stay awake a few nights and I bet you'll sleep through most anything, eventually.

 

[An Tincéir]

I would have loved to come across an albergue that grouped pilgrims according to their whether or not they snore. Snorers all go in one room, non-snorers in another. What's wrong with this idea?

Snoring apartheid!?

 

[wanderlustesq]

Interesting. The first part I knew- in that they relieve sleep apnea, hence the benefit to the user- but I didnt realise that those who suffer from it also snored

It’s the primary symptom for many! Sleep apnea is almost epidemic in the USA these days and considered by many cardiologists and pulmonologists to be a contributing factor in heart issues. CPAP helps alleviate snoring.

 

[Caomhin O Fearghaill]

I would have loved to come across an albergue that grouped pilgrims according to their whether or not they snore. Snorers all go in one room, non-snorers in another. What's wrong with this idea?

ha ha ha

 

[diterry]

“Ambien or earplugs,” said Joost.

 

[Lunchmeat337]

I would have loved to come across an albergue that grouped pilgrims according to their whether or not they snore. Snorers all go in one room, non-snorers in another. What's wrong with this idea?

I never snore, however, my wife says I do. Your idea will cause a lot of friction.

 

[GuyA]

Sometimes excessive snoring leads to something good…In 2014 my brother and I set out from St Jean Pied de Port and stayed in the Roncesvalles Albergue. A world champion snorer essentially kept the entire wing awake most of the night…had no idea such noise was possible…I know this is exaggerated but it felt like the building was shaking !

Bleary eyed the next morning a fellow pilgrim Paulo from Brazil asked if he could walk with us…his words “because you are Canadians ”. Paulo had been in the top bunk over Giuseppe (the champion snorer) which may have affected his choice of walking companions

Days walk complete we enter the municipal Albergue in Larrasoana…paid whatever…chose our beds and in walks Giuseppe! We looked at each other and quietly left…Paulo managed to get us a room at a local Pension for the night. And on the three of us walked to Santiago de Compostela…mostly sharing a private room! Somewhere along the way we met Guiseppe…shared drink and food and got along famously…but never sleeping in the same room again!

Planning a 4th Camino with Paulo in 2024…a friendship which stems from the common snoring experience in Roncesvalles

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I never snore, however, my wife says I do.

Your wife’s probably right. Aren’t wives always right ?

 

[LucyM]

A great idea in theory, but well...
The fundamental problem, aside from discrimination, would seem to be identifying them beforehand.
Oftentimes snorers are oblivious or in denial, in which case they're unlikely to volunteer themselves to sleep in banishment..

I remember on my first camino.. it was in Villafranca de Bierzo and I was embarrassed at being asked by one of the group of middle aged women from a certain continent 'if I snored'... what with me being the only man in the dorm with about 10 women and everything.. well, they themselves, most of them it seemed anyway, snored and farted their way through the whole night, keeping me awake. I never saw them again though, I must have gotten ahead and upwind of them.

But such snoring quarters do exist. The very next day in Ruitelan, Luis offered a separate room to a self confessed loud snorer who was delighted with a room to himself .. and I was to hear later of many other such places..

But if you really want or need to be guaranteed of a peaceful night, then perhaps you need to go find a hotel for yourself..

The really bad snorers should take private rooms. As far as I’m concerned there’s no ear plug that’s effective against snoring.

 

[Marcus-UK]

I am thinking of having a T-Shirt printed with ally my annoying habits/Foibles so that when booking into an Albergue, the hospitlaero could vet me for suitability. "El Roncadero" would probably be one of the conditions.

My wife thinks it a good idea but expressed the thought that there was insufficient space on the front of a T-Shirt.

 

[JustJack]

@JustJack , you had a lot of interesting questions and concerns about your Camino over the months leading up to it. I am wondering if you might like to comment on some of those threads about your perspective now.

Yes I'm planning to, but quite honestly I'm waiting to let it all sink in a bit more before sharing any of my thoughts, as I find some of my thinking is continually evolving...

 

[WayWalker]

Yes ultimately that's the only real answer. And something I did about once a week. Not a hotel, but a private room. If I had an unlimited budget I would have opted for private rooms more often than once a week.

Same could be said from the snorer, "if I had an unlimited budget......."

 

[JustJack]

Possibly. I was prepared to accept the OP trying to back-peddle this to suggest it was a joke, but when words like 'banishing' got used, I stopped being prepared to do that.

I'd suggest not taking comments posted on online forums quite so seriously.

 

[backpack45]

I am not going support banishing snorers to a separate room, though I don't see a problem with hosts suggesting it to those who want one (assuming there is space to allow this). I do remember it being available at one albergue we stayed in years ago. However, as many have suggested, it would not be 100% effective because not everyone realizes they snore, or only do so on occasion.

People don't CHOOSE to snore or have to get up to go to the bathroom, but some do choose to turn on lights, get up super-early, rustle things around while packing, and similar. However, to those that say that we should be tolerant, etc. of ALL noisy behavior, you may not realize that while some people (like my husband) can sleep through practically anything, or at least go back to sleep quickly, I can not and earplugs don't work for me. So while I know that these behaviors will occur, it's less about that I don't like it, and more about my need to sleep.

I think as a group we should support good behavior. (I don't mean arguing with people, but some kind of posted list suggesting people pack earlier or in a different room/that they don't train their headlamps on other people/and that early risers slip out quietly. This isn't that much different than some of the albergues' rules that now exist such as shoes or hiking poles must be left in a particular area, or that a curfew is in effect.

Finally, about people leaving toilet paper and their poop along the trail, I see no reason to be tolerant of such behavior. There are ways to avoid leaving a mess! We should continue to educate pilgrims about how to do that and also make it known we do not think soiling the Camino is ok.

 

[C clearly]

I'd suggest not taking comments posted on online forums quite so seriously.

True, but we try to meet a higher standard than many online forums. There is a fine line between posing a lighthearted question that you think is fun (but hints at making fun of others), and trolling.

 

[JustJack]

True, but we try to meet a higher standard than many online forums. There is a fine line between posing a lighthearted question that you think is fun (but hints at making fun of others), and trolling.

I get the "higher standard", but I don't think a discussion about snoring - one of the most common issues pilgrims deal with - either makes fun of others, or constitutes trolling. This is a community, and as such community discussions about relevant topics should be welcomed, particularly when contrary viewpoints are being shared. That's what makes an online forum robust. Apologies if I've offended any snorers out there, but the discussion is valid.

 

[MikeJS]

Everybody snores at some time.

 

[donnasnola]

I would have loved to come across an albergue that grouped pilgrims according to their whether or not they snore. Snorers all go in one room, non-snorers in another. What's wrong with this idea?

A lot of people don’t know they snore/ we were told at one albergue (after a sleepless night) that they have a smaller room for people who snore/ but only use it when asked

 

[malingerer]

Everybody snores at some time.

That means THEY are asleep and YOU aint !!!



samarkand.

 

[Richmond Gardner]

Plus effective segregation would require a level of honesty and self-knowledge not always found in humans. It wouldn't take much to make a mockery of the effort. A lot of gas being wasted on this topic. AND, think of who would willingly sign up for a sleepless night....I just can't picture it.

 

[C clearly]

I get the "higher standard", but I don't think a discussion about snoring - one of the most common issues pilgrims deal with - either makes fun of others, or constitutes trolling. This is a community, and as such community discussions about relevant topics should be welcomed, particularly when contrary viewpoints are being shared. That's what makes an online forum robust. Apologies if I've offended any snorers out there, but the discussion is valid.

I didn't object to the original post or the discussion of snoring. I merely countered your suggestion that someone not take your online forum post so seriously.

 

[SabsP]

I get the "higher standard", but I don't think a discussion about snoring - one of the most common issues pilgrims deal with - either makes fun of others, or constitutes trolling. This is a community, and as such community discussions about relevant topics should be welcomed, particularly when contrary viewpoints are being shared. That's what makes an online forum robust. Apologies if I've offended any snorers out there, but the discussion is valid.

When we choose sleeping in a dorm in an albergue we really have to learn to adapt what is in front of us.

I believe that it is clear by now that there are different types of snorers and different causes of snoring.

I did not particularly like those pilgrims who kept drinking huge amounts of alcohol in the communal rooms of an albergue ( btw these guys surprisingly did not snore! ) but I adapted.

I did not particularly like the pilgrims who wake at five in the morning and turn on the lights to get an early start but again , it was my choice to stay in an albergue.

Camino and albergue life is quite the same as daily life at home. Today , like every day, I got confronted with carowners who have a very personal idea about the drivingrules.
I am not able to change their behaviour but I can try to keep my focus and not get irritated by them.
Still a learning curve I must admit but I try.

 

[dougfitz]

The really bad snorers should take private rooms. As far as I’m concerned there’s no ear plug that’s effective against snoring.

This or some similar suggestion gets raised regularly enough that I have a pretty well developed rejection of the notion. My response to this in 2020 was:

The second part of my observation was that albergues are for all pilgrims. I think this is a relatively non-controversial position to take. This egalitarianism seems not just axiomatic, but a fundamental proposition of the operation of the albergue movement. The mere fact that you would take a position clearly contrary to this fundamental in seeking to pressure pilgrims who snore to find private accommodation really does worry me.

If such an action were without additional cost, I might object less, but it is not. To take your position, you are saying that is the responsibility of someone else to pay extra so you can have a good night's sleep in communal accommodation. What entitles you to expect others to pay for your comfort? Let me suggest that it is your responsibility, and yours alone, if you are uncomfortable with a particular level of noise in the albergue dormitory, to pay for getting a good sleep in a private room.

If someone chooses to use a private room that is a personal matter, but it shouldn't be because they have been pressured to do so by others who think this will provide them from some relief from the sound of snoring. I have also made this observation about that:

It seems that the relative rate of regular snoring in men and women is about 40% and 25% respectively. In a room of four couples, there would be a less than 1 in 20 chance, about 4.3%, that there will be no regular snorer in the groups. In a group of two couples, the chance is still less than 1 in 10 there will be no snorer. There would be an infinitesimal chance of having a snore free night over even the shortest of camino routes if you are using communal rooms.

So if you are genuinely a non-snorer who wants a noise free night, or even a snorer who doesn't want to listen to other snorers, you would be better off taking responsibility for arranging that outcome by booking a private room yourself, and not suggesting that the solution should be the responsibility of another.

 

[JulieP]

Everybody snores at some time.

This. I once had a rather particular dorm mate in a guesthouse on the Annapurna Circuit. Over breakfast, she complained loudly about her lack of sleep and asked pointedly who was snoring? I informed her that I was on the cot next to her and for a couple of hours it was definitely HER. We were walking the same stages so I had to sleep near her for the next 14 days or so, but you can bet she never complained again! Snoring is a common human trait. We may not even know we do it.

 

[peregrina2000]

I have posted this youtube video before. Right at the beginning Alvaro Lazaga, a snorer, lays out what I think is a reasonable (though heated) snorer’s reaction to complaints about snoring.

One line I particularly liked was — Quien duerme en el albergue sabe donde duerme. (Those who sleep in albergues know where they are sleeping).

Whatever you think about snorers, I think it is a particularly bad idea to wake that person up in the middle of the night.

Oh, yes, there is a cameo appearance by @Rebekah Scott in the video, too! But they don’t talk about snoring.

 

[AnneMarie1]

I would have loved to come across an albergue that grouped pilgrims according to their whether or not they snore. Snorers all go in one room, non-snorers in another. What's wrong with this idea?

When I did the Camino in 2001, there was an albergue that had a snorers’ room. Right outside of Pamplona.

 

[J Willhaus]

For many years, I thought just had insomnia, then a couple of years ago my provider suggested I be tested for sleep apnea. My husband and father have it and I am certain it contributed to my Grandfather's early death from a sudden morning heart attack as they all snored tremendously. My husband and father got CPAP machines many years ago and it made a big difference in their overall daytime mood and stopped all the snoring.

My husband kept telling me that I was also a snorer although I was not the super loud kind. My tests showed that I did indeed have sleep apnea. Now I sleep much better and I don't snore with my CPAP. When people snore it is because their airway is blocked to varying degrees.

It really isn't anything to joke about.

 

[Mikey - camino]

I would have loved to come across an albergue that grouped pilgrims according to their whether or not they snore. Snorers all go in one room, non-snorers in another. What's wrong with this idea?

When i stayed at one monastery a fellow started sawing wood almost immediately after laying down. A woman down the dorm somewhere started complaining 'make him stop. please make him stop-- etc. That one I would have liked to have seen her gone before the snorer.

My ear plugs work fine.

Remember where you are, find a private room.

 

[JustJack]

A sign that was posted in one of the albergues I stayed in

 

[NorthernLight]

I stayed in a dorm once upon a time where the guy in the bunk below me masturbated quite loudly to put himself to sleep (he snored as well but that reassured me he was asleep). The entire bed creaked and squeaked in addition to his groaning. Sadly, he had to get up to use the toilet a few times in the night and every time, had to masturbate to fall asleep again.

It became funny in a bizarre way when he started yelling at the two young guys who were having a whispered conversation on the other side of the room, and then he went at it again.

If you think snoring is bad, get a grip. It could be worse.

 

[Dawsie]

I know that I snore, especially if I have pushed hard on a section and am dog tired.
My solution is to introduce myself to as many people as possible before I fall asleep with something like:
"Hi, I am probably going to snore later tonight. If it is disturbing you, I will not be offended if you shake me and wake me up to give everyone a few moments peace. It is only fair."

I would rise early and aim to leave before many others have woken to give them a few hours peace - or escape the recriminations.
On one occasion I was so keen to run away before being accused that I misread my watch in the dim light. I woke and thought that the time was 07:05 grabbed my things and crept downstairs to get dressed away from the other sleepers. When I could see more clearly I realised that I had been holding my watch upside down - it wasn't 07:05, it was 01:35, time to admit my mistake and creep (even quieter) back to bed.
So we can even disturb our own sleep.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

The really bad snorers should take private rooms. As far as I’m concerned there’s no ear plug that’s effective against snoring

Why should someone who snores have to sleep separately. What you're actually saying is that someone who is different from yourself should sleep separately?

 

[Luka]

I would like to make a plea for a windows open and a windows closed dorm.

 

[joecollins]

I would have loved to come across an albergue that grouped pilgrims according to their whether or not they snore. Snorers all go in one room, non-snorers in another. What's wrong with this idea?

Self-identified snorers I presume. Otherwise the albergue staff would have to wake up people to remove them to a different room when they are found to be snoring.

Pardon my naïveté but I perceive that in a 10€ night albergue dormitory room one should come into it expecting a lack of as a place of shelter that one should expect a lack of some comforts.

Then again, if this is satire, well done.

 

[RussB]

I would have loved to come across an albergue that grouped pilgrims according to their whether or not they snore. Snorers all go in one room, non-snorers in another. What's wrong with this idea?

Good idea, let’s have a separate room for pilgrims with BO too

 

[Katykay]

I admit to snoring occasionally. A couple of days ago I was in the bottom bunk and a slightly younger woman was in the top bunk.

When she first walked in and saw me on the bottom bunk she gave me a bad look and I wondered what that was about?

Later that night I woke up to a thumping sound. I was a bit puzzled, then I noticed that the woman above me seemed to be kicking the bed, vigorously! So vigorously that I thought that she was going to fall out of bed.

Weird. I wondered if perhaps she had cramp but it stopped and so I drifted back to sleep.

Later, I again woke up to the thumping, drifted back to sleep and again wakened.

I lay there wondering if I should ask her if she needed help, then half drifted off to sleep and heard myself snore and immediately the thumping restarted and so I figured that this is what was happening.

I went to sleep and eventually started snoring and she would start thumping until I woke up and then the cycle repeated. Meanwhile the other people in the room were also snoring but that didn't seem to trigger her, only me snoring.

The night proceeded in this fashion. I did get some sleep but not a lot but somehow I doubt that the woman got any sleep at all. She was so focused on detecting my snoring and waking me up by jumping up and down and kicking her mattress that she must have been absolutely exhausted the next day.

If she had just ignored me we would have both got a lot more sleep.

You are so right! It’s the thoughts, judgements about snoring, farting, smelling that lead to disturbance. It sounds like this young person was struggling with her Camino and you bore the brunt. By all means make yourself comfortable with sound reducers and what not and be assertive when necessary but disturbing yourself because someone is doing something they are usually unaware of is futile.

 

[EugeneB]

Hardly suprizing given the language you are using. Any banishment should be for those intolerant individuals who dislike the sound of snoring. I would also suggest that the room they are banished to is unheated in winter, uncooled in summer and they are prevented from showering until all the hot water has run out. People who are prepared to accept others for what they are would be welcome in the comfortable main dormitory and have priority on showers while there is hot water.

Thanks for voicing my sentiments better than I could have.

 

[DreamHiker2]

I would have loved to come across an albergue that grouped pilgrims according to their whether or not they snore. Snorers all go in one room, non-snorers in another. What's wrong with this idea?

It's funny because when I did the Camino and overnighted in Orison, the worst snorer in the room was a woman whom I thought might bring the roof down with the depth & volume of her snores.... and she had the hide to get up in the morning and complain about the snoring!! My point is that a lot of people don't think they are snorers.

 

[Speddy]

This is a world problem where ever hiker/walker/pilgrim has- anyone who shares a room full of bunk beds.
Attitude and acceptance are the motos I live when I'm on the Camino or traveling anywhere else in the world where I'm sharing sleeping quarters. I've learned these are first-world problems coming from the US.
Yes, I too take a private room every 3-4 days to catch up on sleep. As I walk, I ponder how extremely fortunate I am to walk each day sometimes very exhausted- without injury or a bad foot infection that has me ending my Camino. I talk with complete ( or are they?) strangers. This helps get me in a better head space at night while staying in a municipal or shared bunk space in an Albergue.

 

[Janny]

Yes,

Yes,all go and sleep in the naughty dorm

Expect snorers in all albergues. Take air plugs.

 

[Blister Bill]

Yes I'm planning to, but quite honestly I'm waiting to let it all sink in a bit more before sharing any of my thoughts, as I find some of my thinking is continually evolving...

Great...can't wait for your next one !

 

[Daddyfrog]

Nope, just the excessively loud snorers. The other disturbances you've mentioned are minor and short-lived.

In your opinion! I'd rather a snorer than random alarms going off between 0400 and 0600, folowed by random rustling, movement and other disturbances! Peregrinos should be welcome at albergues without discrimination, unless there are security or public health concerns. As has been said, if snoring bothers you, earplugs or private rooms are available. And if you can't use those, for whatever reason, developing tolerance is a great character builder!

 

[EugeneB]

In your opinion! I'd rather a snorer than random alarms going off between 0400 and 0600, folowed by random rustling, movement and other disturbances! Peregrinos should be welcome at albergues without discrimination, unless there are security or public health concerns. As has been said, if snoring bothers you, earplugs or private rooms are available. And if you can't use those, for whatever reason, developing tolerance is a great character builder!

Thank you. I wholeheartedly agree with you. Huge difference between snoring and other random disturbances is CONTROL. Snoring is beyond the power of the doer. Other noisy annoyances you mentioned are within the control of the doer.

 

[Daddyfrog]

It’s the primary symptom for many! Sleep apnea is almost epidemic in the USA these days and considered by many cardiologists and pulmonologists to be a contributing factor in heart issues. CPAP helps alleviate snoring.

And a CPAP replaces snoring with a gentle white noise that actually helps many go to sleep!

 

[J Willhaus]

@JustJack I don't want you to think that I think that snoring isn't annoying. I dealt with it for years before Phil got his CPAP. It certainly can be a hindrance to sleep and this summer we encountered an epic snorer that I talked about on another thread. People were moving to the hallway to sleep and even I dug out my earplugs during the night. Phil even got up and walked over and kindly woke the man and asked him to turn on his side. The man said "I hope it helps" so he knew it could be an issue. I hope he gets medical attention since it was the really bad explosive snoring punctuated by lengths of time without breathing.

 

[HKim]

and those that go to the loo in the middle of the night

I'd have to exile myself to that room.

 

[joecollins]

Breathe Right strips

Ear plugs

Gas-X

 

[Albertagirl]

It is difficult to be empathetic when one is desperately tired. I had two nights on my most recent camino where I went almost entirely sleepless. The first was in a small room which I shared with two other women, one of whom was a champion snorer. I managed to be glad that the owner of the private albergue had fitted her into a small room with the two of us women, so that she would have a bed to spend the night, when his albergue was otherwise full. The second was in a somewhat larger dormitory at the Seminario Menor in Santiago, where I spent a night between two women who kept up an incredible chorus of snoring all night long. It was so bad that I was unable to bear it and spent most of the night sitting up in a bitterly cold hallway to avoid the dorm. I had ear plugs with me, but did not use them. My frequent previous use had caused ear infections which I did not want to stir up. Communal living is a challenge which may not lessen as one gets older and sleeps less well. Now, I can often afford a private room. Those who cannot and are willing to spend sleepless nights on camino are much more saintly than I.

 

[B1nky]

I stayed in a dorm once upon a time where the guy in the bunk below me masturbated quite loudly to put himself to sleep (he snored as well but that reassured me he was asleep). The entire bed creaked and squeaked in addition to his groaning. Sadly, he had to get up to use the toilet a few times in the night and every time, had to masturbate to fall asleep again.

It became funny in a bizarre way when he started yelling at the two young guys who were having a whispered conversation on the other side of the room, and then he went at it again.

If you think snoring is bad, get a grip. It could be worse.

Wow, this really is not ok! Did anyone complain? Is there any system in place where other Albergues on the route can be warned about problematic people like this?

 

[Katykay]

Get a grip…?