- Time of past OR future Camino
- Too many and too often!
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I have only read the headline section. I have just read @Anniesantiago saying she is saturated. I had prepared a reply to Annie, but deleted it. Your post, @Bradypus, has moved me to say that yes, I think the Camino event is a victim of its own success. Not the Pilgrimage. That will outlive the popularity.I've just read this article from La Voz de Galicia. A Camino guide and frequent pilgrim with over 30 years of Camino experience calling for some greater regulation of numbers - at least on the final stages. Prompted by the sight of pilgrims coming to blows near Portomarin.
Un guía lanza la voz de alarma: «Asistí a una pelea entre peregrinos y hasta ahora me parecía imposible mezclar puñetazos y Camino»
El madrileño Raúl Vincenzo Giglio, tras recorrer la ruta a Santiago 44 veces y guiar a infinitos grupos, comparte su lamento: «Estamos en un momento crítico en el que o cambiamos algo todos nosotros nuestra forma de peregrinar y se regula el último tramo, o el Camino puede morir de éxito»www.lavozdegalicia.es
Every bed in Grado was booked on May 9th, people took taxies. Salas the day after was pretty full, but no idea about the absolute situation since we walked to Fontenonaya. Campiello we got the last 2 beds, there might have been free ones in the following villages. Berducedo we got the last 3 beds in town, people taxied to La Mesa. Castro was again full with the 2 guys that arrived after us, but no idea about Grandas that night... by that point we started booking ahead.here was at times some widespread panic on the Primitivo over the last couple of weeks that no beds are available. And indeed many of the private albergues / hostels (both in the main stage points and the inbetween places) were full, yet the municipals always had beds. In fact, the only municipal that filled up was the one in Berducedo (at 7pm). All others always had empty bunks.
I'm not a fan of the idea either. But I can imagine some system where the issue of credencials is far more tightly controlled and limited in numbers. Which could in turn restrict numbers using traditional albergues or claiming a Compostela at the end of their journey. But who would decide the allocation of credencials? Quotas by nationality? One central issuing organisation? A lottery for places? It would be a very different experience from the Caminos as we have known them for decades.The only way that I can see a permit system working (which I'm not in favor of) is to access accommodations. And even that is probably not workable.
The only way that I can see a permit system working (which I'm not in favor of) is to access accommodations. And even that is probably not workable.
The offense being what? Walking in Spain without a permit? Non-resident-of-local-area walking in Spain without a permit?with offenders being promptly removed from the trail to the nearest town and issued spot fines
Clearly if we are talking about a permit system to walk the camino then the infringement would be 'Walking the Camino without a permit' or similar.The offense being what? Walking in Spain without a permit? Non-resident-of-local-area walking in Spain without a permit?
Agreed. However the whole concept of 'freedom of movement' is flawed anyway. There are many places that we cannot freely go, that we may think that we have a 'right' to.That would be a very serious infringement on the whole idea of freedom of movement
But "the Camino" is made up of all kinds of paths and roads that local people use. I can imagine the reaction that Spaniards would have if they were required to have a permit to walk or cycle on their local roads and paths!Clearly if we are talking about a permit system to walk the camino then the infringement would be 'Walking the Camino without a permit' or similar.
That would require demarcation of the Camino, basically fencing it off from public areas. They would be better off to install a moving sidewalk from SJPP to Santiago and charge admission to use it.the infringement would be 'Walking the Camino without a permit' or similar.
The concept is certainly limited, as all our freedoms are. This seems like it would have huge and widespread implications that would be massive overkill for a problem of pilgrim bottlenecks for a few weeks each year.the whole concept of 'freedom of movement' is flawed anyway. There are many places that we cannot freely go
It already is basically fenced off in some areas. That was my point earlier, that those of you have walked it more than once can surely think of a few places where such controls could be instituted.That would require demarcation of the Camino, basically fencing it off from public areas. They would be better off to install a moving sidewalk from SJPP to Santiago and charge admission to use it.
Potentially, yes. I would rather an alternative solution was found. But the problem is growing. Numbers are increasing, pilgrim bottle necks are growing, as is the timeframe concerned.This seems like it would have huge and widespread implications that would be massive overkill for a problem of pilgrim bottlenecks for a few weeks each year
Not at all - it's healthy and hopefully may prompt others to enter into it with constructive suggestions. It's very easy for us to say why we think something won't work, it's actually very hard to think of potential solutions that could. If we on the forum can come up with such ideas it could be helpful to the greater camino community as a whole.P.S. I hope you don't mind a bit of energetic debate on this topic!
What is the problem actually? That two pilgrims fight with each other in the streets of Portomarin? That some Camino pilgrims can not live out their dream of freedom in the form of never having to book their accommodation? That the Camino is no longer what it was when one walked it for the first time? The pollution that some Camino pilgrims create along the trail? I had a quick look at the PCT website and their Strategy of Visitor Management. They have a "multi-pronged approach":But the problem is growing
The challenge being that most of the Camino is on roads or paths that are multipurpose unlike, I expect, the PCT. Where there are bits between villages that are not multipurpose, setting up checkpoints would just incentivize pilgrims without permits to find a different way between village A and Village B, for example on the side of a road.Clearly if we are talking about a permit system to walk the camino then the infringement would be 'Walking the Camino without a permit' or similar.
Agreed. However the whole concept of 'freedom of movement' is flawed anyway. There are many places that we cannot freely go, that we may think that we have a 'right' to.
You can't just drive a car on the road without a license. The car needs to be permitted. You need to pay road tax. In some countries, the vehicle needs to be insured.
Aah, you say - but I can walk on the side of the road, or I can ride a bike. But that too is restricted. You can't ride a bike on a motorway for example, let alone walk.
The list goes on.
What is the problem exactly?What is the problem actually? That two pilgrims fight with each other in the streets of Portomarin? That some Camino pilgrims can not live out their dream of freedom in the form of never having to book their accommodation? That the Camino is no longer what it was when one walked it for the first time? The pollution that some Camino pilgrims create along the trail? I had a quick look at the PCT website and their Strategy of Visitor Management. They have a "multi-pronged approach":
On the first point, they write that many PCT users, whether out for a day or attempting a longer trip, are relatively inexperienced and unfamiliar with Leave No Trace (LNT) principles that reduce their impact on the land. In recent years, PCTA staff and volunteers dramatically increased the quantity and quality of LNT-related articles in print, on our website, and social media to encourage users to protect the trail for others to enjoy.
- Focus on influencing trail user behavior by encouraging Leave No Trace (LNT) practices.
- Focus on making the trail more resilient.
- Sometimes necessary in popular areas (though as a last resort): limit the total number of users through permit systems.
How much is being done in this respect for Camino pilgrims? Not a lot I think. Indignant comments about toilet paper and human waste are posted on social media platforms such as this forum that are presumably mainly read by those who already practice LNT principles, a poster about 'best practices' to reduce the noise caused by groups who are singing (religious?) songs accompanied by timpani and trumpets while marching through the (is it San Pedro?) neighbourhood, a decree by the Santiago administration about a prohibition of picnics on the Obradorio square that may or may not be posted in some corner of the square ...
Most locals would be in favour of turning stretches of public roads and paths into a space 'for pilgrims only'? Why would they? My uninformed guess is that most locals don't lie awake at night at the thought that the Camino is no longer what it was. And if some pilgrims don't come any more or ever again, plenty will still come.
There are too many visitors / tourists / walkers in so many places. A sign of the increasing popularity of doing something for one's physical and mental well-being by being out in the open air, changing the daily scenery, being physically active at a slow pace.
I sympathize with the concerns about Camino crowds. But permits in a large area that it is primarily not a nature park but a cultivated/cultural landscape and townscape? I don't see it coming.
At one end of the Camino Francés where the bottleneck Roncesvalles is, there is a building that could be renovated to house pilgrims - then high demand for beds during a few weeks of the year could be met. It is not publicly known whether there is no interest to invest or a lack of funds or other issues that prevent this project. At the other end, the regional administration of Galicia keeps on creating their cheap public albergues (cheap for the user and sometimes with flabbergastingly high costs for the renovation work) and say that pilgrims should come at other times than during peak season and walk the less frequented last 100 km than those from Saria.
Indeed. He maybe should take his own advice and guide groups in winter as you did.I read it this morning. Not he contributes to the crowding by bringing groups to this part of the Camino. He didn't say he'd be making a change himself only that others should...
I won't be bringing another group. I retired last week and am on on my way Saturday to "increase the crowding" in Alaska and Canada by camping all summer. Just Phil and I back on the Camino to walk and volunteer next year in late winter early spring!Indeed. He maybe should take his own advice and guide groups in winter as you did.
Congratulations. You don’t have to go far to lose the “crowd” in Canada or Alaska.I won't be bringing another group. I retired last week and am on on my way Saturday to "increase the crowding" in Alaska and Canada by camping all summer. Just Phil and I back on the Camino to walk and volunteer next year in late winter early spring!
I am far from being an expert in problem solving methods but I think that the first step is a thorough analysis of a problem. A comparison with the PCT may be actually helpful. So there is the Pacific Crest Trail Association and they changed their name in 1992 to reflect the focus and volunteer structure of the new group as an individual membership organization, rather than a federation of outdoor clubs.So let's have some more positive suggestions folks!
I read it this morning. Note he contributes to the crowding by bringing groups to this part of the Camino. He didn't say he'd be making a change himself only that others should...
If I may? Deepl.com makes a better job of the machine translation of the article mentioned in an earlier post.FYI, this is what he says: I believe that we are at a critical moment in which, or we all change something in our way of pilgrimage as well as in the way we organise the pilgrimage, or the Camino will die of success, as has happened in previous historical stages’.
Just wondering is Annie saturated by rain or is the adjective saturated in relation to something else? ThanksI have only read the headline section. I have just read @Anniesantiago saying she is saturated. I had prepared a reply to Annie, but deleted it. Your post, @Bradypus, has moved me to say that yes, I think the Camino event is a victim of its own success. Not the Pilgrimage. That will outlive the popularity.
If I may? Deepl.com makes a better job of the machine translation of the article mentioned in an earlier post.
Raúl Vincenzo Giglio from Madrid who has walked the Camino de Santiago 44 times and has been a guide for a countless number of groups is quoted as saying:
We are at a critical juncture where we all either change something in our way of pilgrimage and the where the last sections of the Camino are regulated or the Camino will die of its own success.
Avoid tour group season?
Switch to a less busy Camino for the last 100 km?
Waking, cycling...the last 100 to SdC is only a requirement to collect a certificate. There is a big difference between a Pilgrimage and collecting a certificate or merit badge.
But his statement that "luggage or backpack transport companies, which, from Sarria, can be used by up to 80% of pilgrims" says a lot, for me at least.
The guide of the group describes the exchange of words between the two opponents in a street of Portomarín as gritos indescifrables - indecipherable shouting - but I can practically hear them. I bet it started with one of the two peregrinos shouting Oi!I can't imagine witnessing a brawl on the trail.
I hope it is ok that the locals sit on the benches? You know, the ones who pay the taxes in Spain for these benches.I avoid that section of the Camino Frances - a least during tour bus season. Too many day packs on benches that many of us need to rest.
I think if you read the text of the Compostela it is very clear why it cannot be given for other stretches of the route.How about offering a Compstela for other 100 km (or slightly greater) stretches for those with limted time? SJPP to Logrono, Logrono to Burgos, Burgos to Leon, Irun to Bilbao, Oviedo to Lugo, etc ( two stamps per day could still be required). Spread out the crowds.
As one who still walks to the bones for the souls of othersHey, could we make smoothies and cappuccino illegal as well? It’s cafe con leche or nowt
A very simple solution would be to make luggage transfer illegal.
soooooo, a State-provided permit to go on a religious pilgrimage, subjecting Church to State ?Clearly if we are talking about a permit system to walk the camino then the infringement would be 'Walking the Camino without a permit' or similar.
Here's one -- carry a sleeping bag and a sleeping mat or inflatable mattress, and be prepared to sleep outside if necessary.What I was hoping to see from long-term forum members is more positive suggestions to help alleviate the pressures that the camino is facing. I repeat:
"It's very easy for us to say why we think something won't work, it's actually very hard to think of potential solutions that could."
So let's have some more positive suggestions folks!
That would not be a pilgrimage to the Tomb of the Apostle.How about offering a Compstela for other 100 km (or slightly greater) stretches for those with limted time? SJPP to Logrono, Logrono to Burgos, Burgos to Leon, Irun to Bilbao, Oviedo to Lugo, etc ( two stamps per day could still be required). Spread out the crowds.
The Compostela and the Indulgences are entirely unrelated to each other.As I am not a Catholic, I confess (pun intended) I’m not quite sure what the Compostela does for most people other than acknowledge that they have walked at least 100KM to a very important religious place since indulgences are now only given on certain days and in a holy year and require additional steps, such as confession, which few do.
Religiously, the Camino is also a Way of Conversion, so that excluding all non-Catholics would be deeply contrary to its nature. In a bygone era, a non-Catholic could not get a Compostela, but in that bygone era the stats show that non-Catholics still walked the Camino.As one who still walks to the bones for the souls of others, and as one who uses luggage transport, and as one who has walked 2 different routes ( at least until Melide) I have .... thoughts.
If the goal is simply to reduce crowds, telling people that they cant have a credential, stay in albergues, or collect Compostela unless they are walking for explicit religious/ spiritual reasons would work much faster and more effectively than anything else suggested here.
Why not make it "a greedy capitalist Camino predator"? OK, perhaps it was meant in jest but why comment in this and other posts on the person of the interviewee in the news article? On a man who was interviewed for a La Voz de Galicia article as a Spanish person who has known what walking the Camino (Francés) is like since 1991 and who has some personal ideas for the future, and about whose person, whether privately or professionally, we know next to nothing?A Camino predator says
This is one of those quotes that belong most likely to the category "They never said it". The quote is apocryphal, and when this endearing story is being told in a version where he supposedly said these words to Guardia Civil officers who asked what he was doing then it is most certainly not a fact because afaik Elías Valiña did not paint yellow arrows there, it was done by other pioneers of the Camino revival in Spain. He was not only a parish priest in O Cebreiro but a scholar with a strong interest in the medieval history of the pilgrimage to Saint James. He obtained a doctorate and his thesis has the title "The Way of Saint James. A historical-legal study". I sometimes wonder what he had hoped to see happen as a result of his own efforts and the efforts of the Camino association of Estella, another driving force behind the Camino Francés revival. Elías Valiña died in 1989.Father Elias's goal in 1984 when he set about marking arrows with a can of yellow paint, who told the old Guardia Civil when asked that he was " planning for an invasion."
Getting a bit acquainted with the background of the history of the pilgrimage to Saint James is a great opportunity to learn not only something about oneself but also about other faiths. In 2024 - five hundred years after the abolishment of paid indulgences and a reform in the Catholic Church i.e. not the Protestant Reformation but the Catholic Counter Reformation in the 16th century - partial and plenary indulgences may be obtained by a Catholic every single day of the year at every place in the world and without walking even a kilometre and even without leaving home!!! No special days of the year are needed, no special places have to be visited, no Holy Years are necessary. Special days, places or years are merely special occasions but they are not a requirement for obtaining a plenary indulgence. It is similar to going to mass on a normal Sunday and going to mass on Easter Sunday. Same thing, just one occasion feels more special and festive than the other one.since indulgences are now only given on certain days and in a holy year
The Camino de Santiago is a pilgrimage from village to village, open to all, even locals out on their daily walk. It's not a thru-hike in the wilderness so a permit system is not the solution. The idea makes me cringe!So nobody thinks a permit system would work? That's fine.
What I was hoping to see from long-term forum members is more positive suggestions to help alleviate the pressures that the camino is facing. I repeat:
"It's very easy for us to say why we think something won't work, it's actually very hard to think of potential solutions that could."
So let's have some more positive suggestions folks!
The source I have found for this anecdote, and that Father Elias was responsible for introducing the yellow arrows is Laurie Dennett, who I believe knew Father Elias personally and has a fair background in the modern revival of the Camino. Do you have reason to doubt her?This is one of those quotes that belong most likely to the category "They never said it". The quote is apocryphal, and when this endearing story is being told in a version where he supposedly said these words to Guardia Civil officers who asked what he was doing then it is most certainly not a fact because afaik Elías Valiña did not paint yellow arrows there, it was done by other pioneers of the Camino revival in Spain. He was not only a parish priest in O Cebreiro but a scholar with a strong interest in the medieval history of the pilgrimage to Saint James. He obtained a doctorate and his thesis has the title "The Way of Saint James. A historical-legal study". I sometimes wonder what he had hoped to see happen as a result of his own efforts and the efforts of the Camino association of Estella, another driving force behind the Camino Francés revival. Elías Valiña died in 1989.
Indulgences may be separate from the Compostela, but my understanding is that Santiago became a highly sought-after pilgrimage because it was a place where plenary indulgences were granted. If I’m wrong on that score, I apologize for my religious ignorance.That would not be a pilgrimage to the Tomb of the Apostle.
The Compostela is a Catholic religious document, not a certificate for hiking or biking.
The Compostela and the Indulgences are entirely unrelated to each other.
Someone living in Compostela or going privately to the city by car can obtain the indulgences with no long-distance walking whatsoever.
Religiously, the Camino is also a Way of Conversion, so that excluding all non-Catholics would be deeply contrary to its nature. In a bygone era, a non-Catholic could not get a Compostela, but in that bygone era the stats show that non-Catholics still walked the Camino.
As to explicit religious/ spiritual reasons, well as someone said in a recent thread, "pilgrims lie".
Yes I do but I am now going to rely on my memory of what I read and not looking anything up to check. It is an anecdote that Elías Valiña never told himself. There have been quibbles (not between the two men but between those who lived then and how they now remember things from those days 40 years ago) about yellow arrows and Elías Valiña and Andrés Muñoz, and also Javier Navarro, as to who initially created the signalisation in the Navarra region. It is irrelevant for the topic of this thread and I regret already that I had responded to the post.The source I have found for this anecdote, and that Father Elias was responsible for introducing the yellow arrows is Laurie Dennett, who I believe knew Father Elias personally and has a fair background in the modern revival of the Camino. Do you have reason to doubt her?
If the goal is simply to reduce crowds, telling people that they cant have a credential, stay in albergues, or collect Compostela unless they are walking for explicit religious/ spiritual reasons would work much faster and more effectively than anything else suggested here.
But that wasn't Father Elias's goal in 1984 when he set about marking arrows with a can of yellow paint, who told the old Guardia Civil when asked that he was "planning for an invasion."
Thank you for sharing this. The incident that led to this might well have been distressing, and out of character with our expectations of pilgrims on the Camino. Nonetheless, to me this looks more like confected outrage or a journalist looking for a story to fill some space than anything else. I think any serious discussion on this would want to examine a broader range of approaches than the simplistic and perhaps unworkable proposal to introduce a quota system. I will look out for that.I've just read this article from La Voz de Galicia. A Camino guide and frequent pilgrim with over 30 years of Camino experience calling for some greater regulation of numbers - at least on the final stages. Prompted by the sight of pilgrims coming to blows near Portomarin.
Un guía lanza la voz de alarma: «Asistí a una pelea entre peregrinos y hasta ahora me parecía imposible mezclar puñetazos y Camino»
El madrileño Raúl Vincenzo Giglio, tras recorrer la ruta a Santiago 44 veces y guiar a infinitos grupos, comparte su lamento: «Estamos en un momento crítico en el que o cambiamos algo todos nosotros nuestra forma de peregrinar y se regula el último tramo, o el Camino puede morir de éxito»www.lavozdegalicia.es
That was the old system.A positive suggestion? One that comes to mind and which I fully endorse is to offer the Compostela to anyone who wants one, whether you walk 3,000 km or 5 km.
They could charge a fee for the Compostela.That was the old system.
It would be utterly ruinous financially and especially organisationally in the 21st Century, given the MASSIVE increase in total pilgrim numbers, including of course the majority of pilgrims who make their way by motor transport.
They do.They could charge a fee for the Compostela.
I think this rather goes to the Credential issuer, not to the Pilgrim Office at Santiago.They do.
It's the €2 donation that you pay for any Credencial.
Was I sleeping when I received my x number of Compostelas? I've never paid for one. A tube is €2 but I've never gotten one, nor a distance certificate which (I may be wrong) you do pay for.They do.
It's the €2 donation that you pay for any Credencial
No, it goes to the Pilgrim Office.I think this rather goes to the Credential issuer, not to the Pilgrim Office at Santiago.
Hmm. yes and no. Maybe the local folks would like it as it would mean a quieter walk? In my city, we have permitted parking by neighborhood. It's wonderful in areas that are crowded, has time limited or pay parking. The sticker gives an exemption for residents (a sticker on the car or a card to hang on the rearview.) It ensures residents have a place on their street to park. My state has many permitted trails to keep the crowds out and preserve the habitat.But "the Camino" is made up of all kinds of paths and roads that local people use. I can imagine the reaction that Spaniards would have if they were required to have a permit to walk or cycle on their local roads and paths!
It ain't ever going to happen.
Yes, cities of Spain have parking restrictions, too, and restrictions on use of certain areas. But do you have restricted walking on your otherwise-public sidewalks?Maybe the local folks would like it as it would mean a quieter walk? In my city, we have permitted parking by neighborhood.
But there are important reasons why you can't. Those reasons apply to the streets and markets of Spain. The Camino is a construct of our imaginations rather than a piece of land that can be fenced.I wish I could limit all the visitors to my neighborhood's farmer's market.
I belong to 2 pilgrim associations and I have asked them.No, it goes to the Pilgrim Office.
On this basis, the Thames River once flowed through Lake Havasu City in Arizona!Several little towns that are not on the current route have pilgrims statues in them,
so, at some point, pilgrims did walk through those towns.
Lake Havasu City is 5500 miles from the Thames River. The next town offOn this basis, the Thames River once flowed through Lake Havasu City in Arizona!
hmmmmm seems I was mis-remembering.I belong to 2 pilgrim associations and I have asked them.
The first one (SFASJC) just answered:
"The price paid by a pilgrim for a credential is entirely for the SFASJC which designs and prints the credential. There is no fee due to Pilgrims Office in Santiago"
I understood that is where London Bridge is located. Clearly evidence that the Thames flowed there!Lake Havasu City is 5500 miles from the Thames River.
I read it this morning. Note he contributes to the crowding by bringing groups to this part of the Camino. He didn't say he'd be making a change himself only that others should...
Huh !!
Here's something I didn't know !!
A certificate is available for ANYONE who visits the . €3.
Yes but this one has been issued by the Pilgrim's OfficeThere's a €2 price limit (or was in 2016), and they request a contribution to the Pilgrim's Office.
Although, if anyone could get a Compostela by simply showing up, how many would? It seems at that point it would revert to its original intended purposes and would not necessarily be desired by anyone not a Catholic truly coming to see the Tomb. Indeed, many walkers might shun it after a time.That was the old system.
It would be utterly ruinous financially and especially organisationally in the 21st Century, given the MASSIVE increase in total pilgrim numbers, including of course the majority of pilgrims who make their way by motor transport.
Hard to say. At the time of my first Camino there was no set minimum distance to receive a Compostela. Just under 5,000 received a Compostela that year although they were at least theoretically available for the asking. And yet most of the people who did ask for one had walked much further than 100km. In effect the 100km minimum distance rule seems to have encouraged people to walk shorter Caminos than were the norm before its introduction.Although, if anyone could get a Compostela by simply showing up, how many would?
But again, should one not distinguish between overcrowding or too many pilgrims as in "demand for beds is higher than supply of beds" and overcrowding or too many pilgrims as in "too many pilgrims walking on a day when I am walking"?Such permits might the easiest to achieve? Perhaps a definition of an organised group should be made, e.g. 10+ people. With a guide?
The London Bridge was disassembled and rebuilt at Lake Havasu City. Pilgrim Statues areI understood that is where London Bridge is located. Clearly evidence that the Thames flowed there!
What @dougfitz tried to communicate, and I agree with him, is this: Your argumentI'm not sure what your logic is.
The Catholic Church is not a for profit organisation.any for profit organisation
I'm not talking about a statue of a pilgrims.I am not sure what you mean by "pilgrims statues".
There is a finite number of water molecules on earth, and they get around a lot. It is quite likely that many of those who have stared up at the undersides of Tower Bridge in London, UK, have also at one time or another ogled the undersides of London Bridge in the U.S.A.I understood that is where London Bridge is located. Clearly evidence that the Thames flowed there!
I have never seen these, but I have never walked the alternative routes you keep thinking exist as a way to reach SDC. Those that I have seen on the formal routes don't, at least in my view, lend themselves to the interpretation you are suggesting. Rather, I consider @Kathar1na's explanation is more likely to explain the origins of the many older and more modern installations. Perhaps you can explain this in some more compelling way that gives more credibility to your suggestion - other, perhaps, than you have developed a novel explanation yourself.I'm not talking about a statue of a pilgrims.
Instead I am talking about the type of statues that guide
pilgrims to Santiago.
And what type of statues would those be? This is the first I've heard of them.I'm not talking about a statue of a pilgrims.
Instead I am talking about the type of statues that guide
pilgrims to Santiago.
I completely agree it's impossible to say anything definitive without extensive research on the terrain. My knowledge of the situation is based on the occasional browsing of this forum and my last CF which was may-june 2022.But again, should one not distinguish between overcrowding or too many pilgrims as in "demand for beds is higher than supply of beds" and overcrowding or too many pilgrims as in "too many pilgrims walking on a day when I am walking"?
I can only go by the posts on the forum which are anecdotal. My impression is this:
The complaints of the first kind appear in certain weeks of the pilgrimage season and they concern mainly the Roncesvalles-Pamplona section and some small villages like Hontanas (or is it Hornillos) later on. The complaints of the second kind appear mainly for the section Sarría to Santiago. Is there actually a shortage of beds in Galicia - either private albergues, casa rurales etc or the Xunta albergues or both together? Is there an issue with group bookings on the section Sarría to Santiago? Do the Xunta albergues even handle group bookings unlike some municipal albergues in Navarra and La Rioja? I am really curious. I vaguely remember having read that during the Holy Year there were options to stay in "pabellones" in Galicia (I believe it means sports centres and the like in this context) that were open to parish groups on pilgrimage to Santiago but not to Camino pilgrims as such. My memory may be wrong though.
Omigosh. Maybe when I'm on the train to my next camino.More study material for the seriously interested. A summary article and a link to the actual document. 252 pages.
This covers the period of time between the two Holy Years 2021 and 2027.
Master Plan of the Caminos de Santiago in the Autonomous Community of Galicia 2022-2027
More study material for the seriously interested. A summary article and a link to the actual document. 252 pages.
This covers the period of time between the two Holy Years 2021 and 2027.
Master Plan of the Caminos de Santiago in the Autonomous Community of Galicia 2022-2027
I don't understand. This comment appears to be refuting some claim or implication purportedly made by, or belief held by, Roland49, that the Catholic Church is a for-profit organization, however, I can find no such claim or implication. Did I miss something?The Catholic Church is not a for profit organisation.
The fact that you can get your Credencial for €2 and your Compostela for free should be sufficient to disabuse you of that notion.
I think Doug is trying to point out that a town having a statue of a pilgrim is not proof that it was ever on a Camino route - an indication that it might have been, but not proof.The London Bridge was disassembled and rebuilt at Lake Havasu City. Pilgrim Statues are
still sitting there from 100s of years ago. They have not been moved. So, I'm not sure
what your logic is.
They were talking at cross-purposes, as outlined below:I don't understand. This comment appears to be refuting some claim or implication purportedly made by, or belief held by, Roland49, that the Catholic Church is a for-profit organization, however, I can find no such claim or implication. Did I miss something?
He was suggesting that for-profit organizations that offer guided walks should be regulated.any for profit organisation
Non sequitur. Nobody said otherwise, and besides, the Catholic Church is not in the business of offering guided walks.The Catholic Church is not a for profit organisation.
Maybe you should only walk once ?I've just read this article from La Voz de Galicia. A Camino guide and frequent pilgrim with over 30 years of Camino experience calling for some greater regulation of numbers - at least on the final stages. Prompted by the sight of pilgrims coming to blows near Portomarin.
Un guía lanza la voz de alarma: «Asistí a una pelea entre peregrinos y hasta ahora me parecía imposible mezclar puñetazos y Camino»
El madrileño Raúl Vincenzo Giglio, tras recorrer la ruta a Santiago 44 veces y guiar a infinitos grupos, comparte su lamento: «Estamos en un momento crítico en el que o cambiamos algo todos nosotros nuestra forma de peregrinar y se regula el último tramo, o el Camino puede morir de éxito»www.lavozdegalicia.es
Do I want to see this happen? Heck no!Do I want to see this happen? Heck no!
Might it become necessary? Sadly, yes.
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