Saint Jean Pied de Port to Roncesvalles, leaving in the afternoon

[Harland2019]

And was this a friend who had run the London Marathon earlier herself or himself? IOW, reasoned advice or just "thinking"?

Not a clue presumably just friendly banter late in the evening but the point I was jokingly trying to make was that if you tell someone (me) they can't do something it just makes them do it!

 

[Kathor1]

Not a clue presumably just friendly banter late in the evening but the point I was jokingly trying to make was that if you tell someone (me) they can't do something it just makes them do it!

I got that. The OP is, of course, not asking whether he can do it. He asks about "challenges I might be forgetting".

The reason why the regional administration has invested in building such an unusual infrastructure (100s of poles, SOS telephone, SOS wifi stations, emergency shelter) for a trail that presents no technical difficulty is the fact that too many Camino pilgrims on this section are unfit, uninformed and without appropriate equipment.

 

[Roland49]

With a smile on his face he told me this and went on to say that after 100km hiking with backpack, his feet were destroyed. Marathon running and long distance hiking are quite different.

Yip, met two Ex-collegues last year after my CP. They did the Norte and one of them is a passionate ultra-marathon runner. He suffered almost since the start with different aches and problems on feet, legs and back.

He said that the strains of running and walking are so different, that he was not really prepared for them.

HTH

 

[Harland2019]

I got that. The OP is, of course, not asking whether he can do it. He asks about "challenges I might be forgetting".

I thought he had received the information he required.

 

[JonnyRosa]

But please keep it open, so we can read about the outcome

Maybe we could have a sweepstake?

What time will the OP arrive at Roncesvalles..........

Please, everyone who wants to give your opinion, place your bet!

 

[JonnyRosa]

We are having a bit of a cold snap in a large part of Europe. I heard from people living in Brighton on the south coast of England that they had hail the other day. And on the top of Route Napoleon in the Pyrenees between SJPP and Roncesvalles it will feel cool on this September Friday afternoon, too. Some may even call it chilly. And a bit windy now and then. The occasional wind gust of 50 km/h has a tendency to get noticed.

You hail from Brazil, @JonnyRosa. I guess that this is the kind of summer weather that you are familiar with, too?

Of course it will already be autumn when you walk and we do sometimes have weather that we call "Golden October". And I don't know about the Pyrenees but the Alps are known for being a great time to walk in September and early October because the view can reach so incredibly far when you are high up and the air is dry.

View attachment 177611
Source: Meteoblue. Predictability is medium.

Hi Kathar1na,

I'm from Brazil, in the São Paulo region. Today is winter here, and yesterday it was 33 degrees C.

The weather is very unpredictable, even with so much technology and huge databases, it is still more prudent and accurate to check the information as close to the event as possible. In fact, nature is something very difficult for us to understand.

A Japanese proverb says: "Ashita wa ashita no kaze ga fuku" which translates to: Tomorrow's wind will blow tomorrow. It means something like: we should live today and leave tomorrow's day to be lived tomorrow.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Odd, these long threads, aren't they. One does not want to read a single word anymore about the thread's topic and yet one cannot help opening the thread again and again to see what has been posted since the last time one had a look ...

You are so, so right. I stopped 'watching' this thread ages ago but I just couldn't help myself.... .

@JonnyRosa , I do hope that you will post once you're on the Camino. Although I think you should open a new thread, 200 + posts and counting is kind of crazy!

 

[JonnyRosa]

I must admit that having received so many comments about why he should reconsider his proposed 1st day it reminds me of a conversation I had late on a New Year's Eve party when I said to someone I was considering running the London Marathon. A friend told me I couldn't do it, my wife replied don't ever tell him he couldn't do something! I did run (??) and completed it the following year.
Therefore, despite the advice, I would probably go ahead, thinking that I wouldn't hurt anyone else and was invincible. Whatever the outcome, if I survived, I would respond that it was a piece of cake ("easy" for non-English speakers) and I had time to shower, change and drink before the evening meal!

Hi Harland2019,

In general, when people are challenged, they tend to receive it as a stimulus, as an extra dose of strength that drives them to achieve better results.

I myself, to this day, try to be very careful with this, and always think and plan without letting myself get sidetracked by both criticism and praise; because our own lives are only lived by ourselves.

 

[JonnyRosa]

Hi R

Yip, met two Ex-collegues last year after my CP. They did the Norte and one of them is a passionate ultra-marathon runner. He suffered almost since the start with different aches and problems on feet, legs and back.

He said that the strains of running and walking are so different, that he was not really prepared for them.

HTH

Hi Roland.
I'm not a fitness trainer, but I believe that running and walking work different muscle groups. Therefore, when these muscle groups are subjected to heavy load, they can cause pain and even injury.

 

[JonnyRosa]

You are so, so right. I stopped 'watching' this thread ages ago but I just couldn't help myself.... .

@JonnyRosa , I do hope that you will post once you're on the Camino. Although I think you should open a new thread, 200 + posts and counting is kind of crazy!

Hi Peterexpatkiwi,

I am a new member of the forum, and I confess that I have no idea if the post is too long, if it should be closed, much less how to close it, or even if this is a moderator's job.

I am really appreciating all the help that the members have offered me, and I try to respond to each one as best I can, because this is the least I can do in return for the time that each one offered me.

 

[Roland49]

Hi R

Hi Roland.
I'm not a fitness trainer, but I believe that running and walking work different muscle groups. Therefore, when these muscle groups are subjected to heavy load, they can cause pain and even injury.

Oh, he is fit in every aspect. Ex PT!

 

[Dani7]

Hi Harland2019,

In general, when people are challenged, they tend to receive it as a stimulus, as an extra dose of strength that drives them to achieve better results.

I myself, to this day, try to be very careful with this, and always think and plan without letting myself get sidetracked by both criticism and praise; because our own lives are only lived by ourselves.

Well this statement you just made tells me you’re going to do just fine on your Camino. Movie villains most often get their comeuppances due to their egos. And after reading all your responses on this thread, my sense is you will have no difficulty keeping yours in check. Can’t wait to read about your “first day” impressions .

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Hi Peterexpatkiwi,

I am a new member of the forum, and I confess that I have no idea if the post is too long, if it should be closed, much less how to close it, or even if this is a moderator's job.

I am really appreciating all the help that the members have offered me, and I try to respond to each one as best I can, because this is the least I can do in return for the time that each one offered me.

@JonnyRosa, thank you for the courtesy but you really don't have to respond to all of us. You can simply put a like or a thank you if you wish (long hold the like button and you'll see multiple options)

And don't worry about this post being too long, that's down to all of us. Should the moderators feel its served its purpose or gotten too crazy/ inappropriate answers etc, yes indeed they will close it.

Unfortunately some people can't be bothered to read the sometimes excellent advice from others ( which they could then respond to with a simple 'like' or 'thanks') and they post an answer to a question that has long since been answered.

I was simply meaning that I hope to hear about your journey once you're actually on Camino, and it would be a shame if it got lost in amongst everything else above.

Don't be afraid to ask another question should something arise for you, although I would strongly suggest posting it separately.

Most of us are on here because we're just envious of everybody else that's actually walking! And the next best thing to walking yourself is to help somebody else.

 

[JonnyRosa]

@JonnyRosa, thank you for the courtesy but you really don't have to respond to all of us. You can simply put a like or a thank you if you wish (long hold the like button and you'll see multiple options)

And don't worry about this post being too long, that's down to all of us. Should the moderators feel its served its purpose or gotten too crazy/ inappropriate answers etc, yes indeed they will close it.

Unfortunately some people can't be bothered to read the sometimes excellent advice from others ( which they could then respond to with a simple 'like' or 'thanks') and they post an answer to a question that has long since been answered.

I was simply meaning that I hope to hear about your journey once you're actually on Camino, and it would be a shame if it got lost in amongst everything else above.

Don't be afraid to ask another question should something arise for you, although I would strongly suggest posting it separately.

Most of us are on here because we're just envious of everybody else that's actually walking! And the next best thing to walking yourself is to help somebody else.

Thank you very much Peterexpatkiwi. Wise words.

 

[idonteven]

Interesting thread! And topical for me: I'm thinking of leaving SJPDP in the afternoon too since that's when the bus from Pamplona arrives and I'm planning a somewhat fast pace. I read this thread carefully and am feeling confident to proceed considering my abilities (experienced mountain hiker with currently active trail legs), equipment (ultralight tarp, 30F quilt, sleeping mat, bright headlamp), and weather forecast (76F SJPDP, 67F Roncesvalles, 20% chance precip). In fact I think I'll make sleeping somewhere near the pass my primary plan if weather allows, it sounds lovely. I'll be happy to post an update after if anyone is curious about it.

What I found most interesting in this thread is the discussion of the socializing that happens in SJPDP and Roncesvalles. Will I be missing out on part of the experience if I skip that? I'm thinking I'll have plenty of time to make friends later, and this section seems like one of the better chances to enjoy a night under the stars.

 

[trecile]

What I found most interesting in this thread is the discussion of the socializing that happens in SJPDP and Roncesvalles. Will I be missing out on part of the experience if I skip that? I'm thinking I'll have plenty of time to make friends later,

You will have plenty of opportunities to make friends later. Many people start from Roncesvalles, Pamplona, Burgos, León and farther on and manage to make friendships.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

In fact I think I'll make sleeping somewhere near the pass my primary plan if weather allows

Go for it! With the gear you're carrying, the experience you have, and that forecast - it would be a shame to miss search a wonderful opportunity.

 

[C clearly]

@JonnyRosa, thank you for the courtesy but you really don't have to respond to all of us. You can simply put a like or a thank you if you wish (long hold the like button and you'll see multiple options)

And don't worry about this post being too long, that's down to all of us. Should the moderators feel its served its purpose or gotten too crazy/ inappropriate answers etc, yes indeed they will close it.

Thanks, @Peterexpatkiwi . You are correct on both points. We certainly have longer threads than this one. As long as the discussion is continuing more or less on-topic, in a constructive way, we don't close threads just because of length. (Here is a fun discussion of 460 posts.)

 

[Tincatinker]

Thanks, @Peterexpatkiwi . You are correct on both points. We certainly have longer threads than this one. As long as the discussion is continuing more or less on-topic, in a constructive way, we don't close threads just because of length. (Here is a fun discussion of 460 posts.)

Odd link there @C clearly

 

[C clearly]

Odd link there @C clearly

I think I have fixed the link to your classic thread!

 

[Tincatinker]

I think I have fixed the link to your classic thread!

There doesn’t appear to be an easily inserted “blush” emoji. So “blush”

 

[WalkingLester]

Odd link there @C clearly

That one has to be the longest thread !?

 

[trecile]

That one has to be the longest thread !?

There are longer threads with over a thousand posts.

 

[Sirage]

but I think this thread is done.

Perhaps so, but it depends on the purpose of the thread.

Has it morphed into a philosophy or a cry for help therapy conversation? Although not for the person who originated this thread but for others.

Noting that many of the comments probably have come from people who have walked many Caminos and have made their own choices on many aspects of walking their Caminos without asking anyone else for their opinions except perhaps from a spouse, perhaps from a time when this Forum was far less active.

 

[JabbaPapa]

That one has to be the longest thread !?

My very long Camino from Home thread currently stands at 1,266 posts and 13 pages, and that's only because I made a separate thread for an intermediary 2024 Camino that really was part of the same Pilgrimage -- +175 posts ...

 

[Kathor1]

Dipping into the Twitter feeds of Bomberos y Bomberas Navarra, Guardia Civil Navarra, Policia Foral Navarra or SOS Navarra, there is always a good chance of finding a recent story like this one: 5 days ago, on Sunday 8 September 2024, nighttime, in an area near the Lepoeder Pass towards the end of the Route Napoleon from SJPP to Roncesvalles, intervention by a Firefighters & Rescue Team, male pilgrim, knee injury, taken to health station in Burguete:

 

[Kathor1]

And for those who are curious: Currently, sunset is around 8:15 pm and twilight ends around 8:45 pm. No information available about when the pilgrim started his day of walking or how long it him to get to where and when he could not continue.

 

[dick bird]

That one has to be the longest thread !?

Forum threads, like the proverbial old soldiers, never die. They just fade away.

 

[ScouseKeith]

In early October, I plan to do the route from Sant Jean Pied de Port to Roncesvalles, leaving SJPP in the afternoon, around 2:30 p.m. I walk frequently and quickly, averaging 6 km/h. I would like to know if any of my colleagues have already done this route in the afternoon and what challenges I might be forgetting.

Hi jonny
You might be underestimating what you are facing in the 28km on that first stage.
The fastest I’ve wheats anyone walking to Roncesvalles is around 8hrs and that’s walking at just over 3km per hour. The gradient in parts is so acute you certainly won’t be able to achieve your top spread. Given you manage to maintain 3km per hour you’re still looking at 8hrs+ which means not arriving until after 9pm in the dark.
I suggest if you determined to start in the afternoon stop at Orisson or leave before midday to get in earlier.
Remember the darker it is the more dangerous it’s likely to be and god forbid the last thing you need is injuring yourself on the first day. Buen Camino Keith

 

[JonnyRosa]

Hi jonny
You might be underestimating what you are facing in the 28km on that first stage.
The fastest I’ve wheats anyone walking to Roncesvalles is around 8hrs and that’s walking at just over 3km per hour. The gradient in parts is so acute you certainly won’t be able to achieve your top spread. Given you manage to maintain 3km per hour you’re still looking at 8hrs+ which means not arriving until after 9pm in the dark.
I suggest if you determined to start in the afternoon stop at Orisson or leave before midday to get in earlier.
Remember the darker it is the more dangerous it’s likely to be and god forbid the last thing you need is injuring yourself on the first day. Buen Camino Keith

Hi Keith, Many thanks for your contribution.
The majority of the members' opinions are expressed in this direction.

 

[henrythedog]

My very long Camino from Home thread currently stands at 1,266 posts and 13 pages, and that's only because I made a separate thread for an intermediary 2024 Camino that really was part of the same Pilgrimage -- +175 posts ...

That does so least have a beginning, a middle and an end!

(On reflection, it has several of all three)

 

[lbrown498]

It's true Bradpus, walking on steep inclines is another matter. I intend to do the 15% incline section at 4.5 km/h; the 10% to 14% incline sections at 5 km/h and the 5% to 10% incline sections at 5.5 km/h; the rest I intend to do at 6 km/h.

There is more to consider than degree of incline or decline. You have to consider surface conditions and how they are affected by the weather (which is quite changeable with little or no warning). If you take the more direct route down from Alto de Lepoeder, the surface conditions will not allow you to safely maintain your normal stride. If you take the road, it will add miles to a day that you have already started very late.

 

[JabbaPapa]

That does so least have a beginning, a middle and an end!

(On reflection, it has several of all three)

Last day and the End of my Pilgrimage is tomorrow !!

 

[MassNative]

JonnyRosa you asked for advice, I will add mine. I am also a "street runner", an experinced New England Area hiker (used to climbing 5000 foot summits similar to Col Lepoeder). I found the unrelenting road climb to the Spain border to be very tiring. The sections that look flat, are uphill. Then you have the steep descent to Roncevalles over the last 4+ kms, while your legs are rubber, and under your plan, will be in twilight AT BEST! Any thing that causes you a time delay, will result in a dangerous descent.

I opted to break up that first stage by hiking to Croix Thibault, and taking the Mountain Shuttle back to SJPdP, Day 2 we shuttled back to Croix Thibault, then hiked to Burgette. A younger, fast walker than me could walk a few more villages day 2 and be further along.

You asked for advice.

Mine: Do not try it.

If you need to make up a day delay in your itinery, add 5-6 km per day later in your camino, on flater stages. Or start in Roncevalles instead of SJPdP. Or just start from Pamplona, since you are spending a night there already.

Whatever you do. Good Luck.

 

[Bart Johnson]

It's true Bradpus, walking on steep inclines is another matter. I intend to do the 15% incline section at 4.5 km/h; the 10% to 14% incline sections at 5 km/h and the 5% to 10% incline sections at 5.5 km/h; the rest I intend to do at 6 km/h.

You may be overthinking this a bit.

 

[GRR]

Why would you want to do that? You’re boxing yourself into a tight unalterable box. Things happen on the Camino, as in life. Leave early in the morning and enjoy yourself. There are plenty of things to see and experience going up that hill and more on the way down. You’ll miss out on a lot if you hike like a machine to your destination. And the first part of the Camino is where you will likely create friendships that last the rest of your journey and beyond.

 

[JonnyRosa]

JonnyRosa you asked for advice, I will add mine. I am also a "street runner", an experinced New England Area hiker (used to climbing 5000 foot summits similar to Col Lepoeder). I found the unrelenting road climb to the Spain border to be very tiring. The sections that look flat, are uphill. Then you have the steep descent to Roncevalles over the last 4+ kms, while your legs are rubber, and under your plan, will be in twilight AT BEST! Any thing that causes you a time delay, will result in a dangerous descent.

I opted to break up that first stage by hiking to Croix Thibault, and taking the Mountain Shuttle back to SJPdP, Day 2 we shuttled back to Croix Thibault, then hiked to Burgette. A younger, fast walker than me could walk a few more villages day 2 and be further along.

You asked for advice.

Mine: Do not try it.

If you need to make up a day delay in your itinery, add 5-6 km per day later in your camino, on flater stages. Or start in Roncevalles instead of SJPdP. Or just start from Pamplona, since you are spending a night there already.

Whatever you do. Good Luck.

Thank you very much for your advice MassNative.

 

[JonnyRosa]

There is more to consider than degree of incline or decline. You have to consider surface conditions and how they are affected by the weather (which is quite changeable with little or no warning). If you take the more direct route down from Alto de Lepoeder, the surface conditions will not allow you to safely maintain your normal stride. If you take the road, it will add miles to a day that you have already started very late.

Weather conditions, with rain and winds, significantly affect the entire plan and will be taken into consideration. Many thanks lbrown498.

 

[Lizhk]

Hi Trecile,
You're right. I have a tight schedule. I'm already spending the night in Pamplona the day before, and I didn't want to spend the night in SJPP and only leave the next day. So I thought about leaving the same day I arrive in SJPP. Based on my planning, I think it's feasible, but I know there are risks. If the weather is bad, I'll definitely leave the next day.
Now, trying to answer your question as honestly as I can, I would say that the same impulse that is driving me to do the Camino de Santiago is what makes me do this stretch as soon as I arrive; I don't know the real reason.

Is it possible to catch an evening bus in Pamploma to Roncevelle, then taxi to St. Jean the day you arrive? Spend the night in SJPdP. Have your heavier bag transported to Roncevelles and walk there to meet it. You will have all day to race up and down the mountain.

 

[Wandalina]

True, I initially said 2:30 p.m. I have been adjusting my planning day by day. I will arrive by bus in SJPP at 1:45 p.m. and I didn't know exactly how long it would take to get to the beginning of the Napoleon route; now that I've reviewed my calculations, I believe I will start at 2:00 p.m. I am planning to walk the downhill part at 6 km/h.
I am very concerned about the brightness at the end of the route, and for safety reasons I am taking a headlamp.
I have no experience in hiking, so the help of colleagues with more experience is very important to me.
I am a street runner, with a lot of experience in running, over 20 years. I have been training for years to run 10 to 15 km regularly, and walking is very comfortable for me. I have been training with the weight/backpack in the steep conditions of this section and I have been doing well.
I'm sure the path will be more complex than the training, and that's exactly why I came to ask for help from anyone who has already done the stretch.
Thank you very much

Its a very difficult day. I think you should listen to all the experience on here. Genuinely don't think anyone advise against unless there weren't concerns for your safety and potentially the rescue team who might have to come find you

 

[JonnyRosa]

Is it possible to catch an evening bus in Pamploma to Roncevelle, then taxi to St. Jean the day you arrive? Spend the night in SJPdP. Have your heavier bag transported to Roncevelles and walk there to meet it. You will have all day to race up and down the mountain.

Your choice is very smart Lizhk. I hadn't thought of this route. There is a bus at 7:00 pm from Pamplona to Roncesvalles.

 

[tomjane40]

In early October, I plan to do the route from Sant Jean Pied de Port to Roncesvalles, leaving SJPP in the afternoon, around 2:30 p.m. I walk frequently and quickly, averaging 6 km/h. I would like to know if any of my colleagues have already done this route in the afternoon and what challenges I might be forgetting.

Why? comes to mind. Many of the joys of the camino are the people you meet and the scenery you get to see. You will miss both with this plan. I highly suggest you rethink this plan. First - you are setting yourself up for injury on your very first day if you are going to descend into Roncevelles in the dark. The rocks on a DRY day are tough, but would be very dangerous with a flashlight. Maybe I am reading too much into this - but you seem like you are in a hurry. My advice is to slow down and enjoy your journey. Don't be in a rush to get to the next location. The Camino has so much to teach if you, if you take the time to listen. Buen Camino

 

[henrythedog]

This probably will not translate outside of the UK.

At village fêtes and social gatherings throughout the three-day British summer there is a common ‘event’ to be found; known by various names, but ‘bat-a-rat’ is typical.

The concept is simple. A table is produced with a number of holes, through which the operator, located below the table, manually introduces a stuffed toy rat. The competitor tries to hit said rodent with a stick. The rat is rapidly withdrawn and reintroduced through another hole and the cycle repeats. It’s what we did before video-games were developed; although it’s not clear what one has to do to win.

I’m not sure why that’s come to mind.

 

[Blintintin]

you may want a stamp for your credencial in SJPDP and you should check-in for conditions in Pilgrim Office.. lines up can be long and your 15 mins likely insufficient. [Profile stage Day1)

 

[Mahonsk]

Hi,

Your reasons for leaving late are your own. However, your rationale for how you will be able to walk at a speed of 6km ph is unsound and does NOT take into consideration many factors which have already been mentioned previously.

What I would ask is that you consider the personal safety of the rescuers who will be sent out to look for you because of you potential recklessness!

 

[JulieandPeter]

Hi Jonny, Your plan is missing a nap. There is nothing better than a mid-day picnic along the trail followed by a nice nap. Best of luck to you. If the weather is good, you will probably be just fine although you might miss dinner in Roncesvalles.

 

[nickyvee]

Seems that you are determined to go through with it despite cautious advice from readers not to do so. Looks like you have done the planning and training. Now time to do it; it's your Camino.

If you make it without getting lost at night or suffer injury, then you would have proven to yourself (and to a lesser extent, Others) that it can be dome.

If you fail and get lost or injured, then you would have unnecessarily burdened the local authorities in looking and rescuing you. At its worst, you'll be represented by a cross that pilgrims/hikers will pass by during the daytime.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Your choice is very smart Lizhk. I hadn't thought of this route. There is a bus at 7:00 pm from Pamplona to Roncesvalles.

The only service I know between Pamplona and Roncesvalles is via Autocares Artieda. Their 2024 schedule has a bus leaving Pamplona at 13:30 Mondays through Friday and 16:00 on Saturdays.

Autobuses Artieda – Autobuses Artieda

Just another WordPress site

www.autocaresartieda.com

 

[Nocheechako]

"I have no experience in hiking"
The majority of people I have witnessed who had to leave paths over my past 9 years of long distance walks have been young and fit. It is my opinion that they try to conquer, when a long distance walk is to be endured. 3 Caminos, the Summit of Kilimanjaro, West Highland Way, Hadrian Wall, Alta Via 1, Laugavegur Great Glen Way, Hadrian Wall and on other trails.

Like others, I would recommend reserving at Orison, enjoy the pilgrim meal, and make new friends, let the joy of the way overtake you and continue in the morning.

Here is my 275lb carcass on the Roof of Africa on the way down I passed plenty of young superfit people who were being helped down the mountain by porters because they took the fast path and did not apply "pole, pole" to to the journey. Two weeks prior to this photo my wife and I had walked the Camino Portuguese in 11 days as a final preparation for the climb, that's as fast as I go anymore.

Best wishes to you, enjoy your journey.

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

A long walk like this must be approached with caution. The first day is a challenge, for all. So is the second day. If your calves and shins are screaming by the time Roncesvalles is reached, you are human.

AND TAKE THE PATH TO THE RIGHT AT CISE!!!

If you go straight down to Roncesvalles, your hands will be on the ground next to your face as you pick your way down a wide but terribly steep path that will seem like it goes on forever.

Option 2:
Ignore all the information given here and do you on Day One...and after that, evaluate. Adjust. Day 2, Adjust. Evaluate. And continue. But ALWAYS keep yourself safe with options to bail or revise plans and expectations.

Buen Camino!

 

[Sirage]

So is the second day. If your calves and shins are screaming by the time Roncesvalles is reached, you are human.

I thought the second part of your post was spot-on. "evaluate ... adjust" BUT with the proviso of starting cautiously for a few days and then increasing effort until you reach your limit, if you want to.

That is hard to achieve if day 1 is to Roncesvalles of course so it is much better IF you wish to enjoy Roncesvalles is to have day 1 some distance further east towards Le Puy, such as Le Puy. I know, a luxury not possible for most and thus a dilemma. Some of the prudent with a different sense of risk-of-failure opt to start at Roncesvalles and meet pilgrims along the way close to failure still because of the consequences of wanting an iconic start at St Jean PdP.

All part of what the Camino teaches you if you are paying attention (and perhaps dependent on if you can finish at Santiago???).

But in regards to the first part which is appropriate for novices, many on this forum, myself and others, whilst still being human I suspect, happily walked to Roncesvalles like it was a walk-in-the-park, literally and figuratively, with my calf muscles happily enjoying the day and ready to start fresh again the next day, and the next 700 kms. That was 20 yrs ago. My days are slightly shorter now as being 80 is now approaching over the horizon.

 

[Scott Fraser]

In early October, I plan to do the route from Sant Jean Pied de Port to Roncesvalles, leaving SJPP in the afternoon, around 2:30 p.m. I walk frequently and quickly, averaging 6 km/h. I would like to know if any of my colleagues have already done this route in the afternoon and what challenges I might be forgetting.

One more thing to consider: the people who will go at risk on the mountain to find you if something happens and you need to call for help. Is your desire to rush through one of the most beautiful parts of the Camino worth putting the rescue service personnel in danger?

 

[JabbaPapa]

Your choice is very smart Lizhk. I hadn't thought of this route. There is a bus at 7:00 pm from Pamplona to Roncesvalles.

Many buses to Roncesvalles only run during the Summer period.

Not sure the 7PM one will be running in October. Check the Winter timetable !!

 

[walkerandtalker]

In early October, I plan to do the route from Sant Jean Pied de Port to Roncesvalles, leaving SJPP in the afternoon, around 2:30 p.m. I walk frequently and quickly, averaging 6 km/h. I would like to know if any of my colleagues have already done this route in the afternoon and what challenges I might be forgetting.

Hi there

I did this route in June and there are several sections on the Napoleon route which are like descending on marble, super slippery and steep and through forest. We did them on our bums. They come at the end and If it's raining and getting dark I wouldn't recommend it. One guy was helicoptered off after breaking his leg.

Otherwise it's totally doable for anyone with moderate walking skills. We also added 6km onto our journey as we stayed on the main path at the cross and so veered left. Don't do that! At the cross go almost straight over the grassy area. Several pilgrims did the same as us and we ended up walking 34km that day!!

 

[Juliawalking]

Please remember this is a pilgrimage. Give yourself time, follow sage advice and enjoy the path, the other pilgrims, the beauty of the trail and the inspiration of the hundreds of years of pilgrims taking this path before you.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I did this route in June and there are several sections on the Napoleon route which are like descending on marble, super slippery and steep and through forest. We did them on our bums. They come at the end and If it's raining and getting dark I wouldn't recommend it. One guy was helicoptered off after breaking his leg.

If he gets that far, then he should have no problem. Both times I went through there, I was young and fit and as fast a walker as OP.

The issue isn't there -- it's getting such a late start from SJPP that's clearly problematic.

My usual 6 Kph in 1994 became a 4 Kph on the ascents up there, and my 2005 5 Kph probably a 3.5.

Perhaps OP doesn't need the 1-2 hours cumulative rests for food and watering that I myself needed myself back then, but even with just 30 minutes of stoppage that's still an expected 6 to 7 hours for a good hiker. Add some slowdown in the dark, as there is no way OP could be faster than sunset & twilight, and a 2:30 PM start leads to what, a 10:30 PM arrival or worse ?

Otherwise it's totally doable for anyone with moderate walking skills.

Skill and ability are two completely different things -- just personally, without the skills that I have acquired over the decades, a foot pilgrimage would be impossible for me due to my disability. But someone healthy can acquire the needed skills, especially on such a well infrastructured route as the Francès.

So skills are less important than physical ability, even though skills can help overcome some dis-ability of whichever sort.

We also added 6km onto our journey as we stayed on the main path at the cross and so veered left. Don't do that! At the cross go almost straight over the grassy area. Several pilgrims did the same as us and we ended up walking 34km that day!!

I was up there in August, and "don't go that way" crossed waymarkers are clearly visible. Sad that you missed them and took that wrong turn !!

Though actually, if you don't use the grass and keep on the road but veer right instead, it leads quickly to the "proper" road & trail towards Ibañeta.

 

[ukjohn99]

Hi JabbaPapa,

Thank you very much for your words, your experience is very important to me and will certainly help me.

I have no experience in mountain/hiking and I am not familiar with the term "speed on the flat". Do you remember the speed you were going on the trail when you refer to "6 km/h on the flat"?

In general, how did you manage your 42 km/day in terms of stops, food, schedules...?

I expected to find many people who had already walked this stretch in the afternoon, but I was completely wrong.

Why? You will arrive in the dark. That is dangerous and you may even miss the evening meal. Stay another night and go over the next day.

 

[JonnyRosa]

Hi Jonny, Your plan is missing a nap. There is nothing better than a mid-day picnic along the trail followed by a nice nap. Best of luck to you. If the weather is good, you will probably be just fine although you might miss dinner in Roncesvalles.

Hi Julien and Peter,
So I would miss one of the good parts of the plan, which would be taking a shower and having dinner at 8:00 pm.

 

[JonnyRosa]

Seems that you are determined to go through with it despite cautious advice from readers not to do so. Looks like you have done the planning and training. Now time to do it; it's your Camino.

If you make it without getting lost at night or suffer injury, then you would have proven to yourself (and to a lesser extent, Others) that it can be dome.

If you fail and get lost or injured, then you would have unnecessarily burdened the local authorities in looking and rescuing you. At its worst, you'll be represented by a cross that pilgrims/hikers will pass by during the daytime.

Hi Nickvee,

I have not ignored any of the advice I have received here, and it will be taken into consideration when deciding whether to leave in the afternoon or wait for the next dawn, since I had not considered many points initially and all the dialogue in this forum was enriching.

If I do the Camino in the afternoon, I will not do it thinking of proving anything to anyone, nor as a form of penance, I will do it simply out of my own desire, just as I will do all the other stages.

Now, a tombstoneas already suggested or a cross on the path would mean that my life has ended there, and if this is the case, I don't see anything wrong with it, since no one knows the time and place of their departure and should be ready for this, it is not right?

 

[Kathor1]

Now, a tombstoneas already suggested or a cross on the path would mean that my life has ended there, and if this is the case, I don't see anything wrong with it, since no one knows the time and place of their departure and should be ready for this, it is not right?

It is comments like this one that makes some of your readers wonder whether you are trolling us.

No, it’s not right but unwise (I am trying to choose my adjectives carefully here) to say this when the context is preventable attitudes and preventable lack of knowledge about walking in an environment (terrain, climate, weather etc) that is fundamentally different to the level of experience and knowledge of the first-time Camino de Santiago walker from another continent on their first day from SJPP.

 

[JonnyRosa]

One more thing to consider: the people who will go at risk on the mountain to find you if something happens and you need to call for help. Is your desire to rush through one of the most beautiful parts of the Camino worth putting the rescue service personnel in danger?

Hi Scott,

About this Emergency topic, forum participant Kathar1na, in post #179, offered the SOS_Pilgrim_Map and it contains valuable information.I would like to highlight the ones that I consider important in general:

- The Emergency phone 112 works both in Spain and France.

- If you call Emergency, do not move to facilitate the search. If the correct location is provided, the average time of rescue may be less than 30 minutes.

 

[JonnyRosa]

It is comments like this one that makes some of your readers wonder whether you are trolling us.

No, it’s not right but unwise (I am trying to choose my adjectives carefully here) to say this when the context is preventable attitudes and preventable lack of knowledge about walking in an environment (terrain, climate, weather etc) that is fundamentally different to the level of experience and knowledge of the first-time Camino de Santiago walker from another continent on their first day from SJPP.

Hi Kathar1na,
I meant that we must be ready for the day of our departure, that we must value our life, enjoying every moment of it, without failing to say what could be said, without learning what could be learned, in other words, without living what could have been lived.

 

[C clearly]

I meant that we must be ready for the day of our departure, that we must value our life, enjoying every moment of it, without failing to say what could be said, without learning what could be learned, in other words, without living what could have been lived.

Yes, this is an admirable philosophy to apply to one's life. However, one can apply it wisely without succumbing to every impulse.

 

[JulieandPeter]

Hi Julien and Peter,
So I would miss one of the good parts of the plan, which would be taking a shower and having dinner at 8:00 pm.

Our first Camino, we started in SJPDP and arrived in Roncesvalles at 8:04 p.m. Not because we started late from SJPDP, but because we ran into snow on the trail, and because of the snow (and fog), we had trouble in one area finding markers and had to backtrack, and then later we missed the path that avoids the steep albeit very beautiful forest path. It's easy to miss that junction even on a sunny day. The downhill was very painful on our toes, which we had not prepared for, and the pain slowed us down (at times I had to walk backward to avoid the pain). Fortunately, we had booked one of the hotels in Roncesvalles, and their restaurant was open until 9:00, but getting to dinner before closing time was a scramble.

We had no idea what we were doing, we stumbled upon the Camino in 2015 and made almost no plans beyond Roncesvalles. In hindsight, we were very lucky that it wasn't especially cold or raining. We would have been in very big trouble because our phone battery died midway, and we were the only people on the trail at that late hour. Of course, now we start from Orisson or Hunto, we carry lots of extra portable chargers, food, and we plan a nap each day.

The first two photos from 2015 photos were taken at 5:44 p.m. (not sure where ) and 6:46 p.m. (walking backward a few steps to relieve pain on the downhill). We brought a camera on the first walk. The last photo was taken between Orisson and Roncesvalles in 2022 at 2:04 p.m. (the perfect time for a nap).

 

[trecile]

Our first Camino, we started in SJPDP and arrived in Roncesvalles at 8:04 p.m. Not because we started late from SJPDP, but because we ran into snow on the trail

Approximately what time did you start? And what month?

 

[JulieandPeter]

Approximately what time did you start? And what month?

It was April 11, 2015 at approximately 8:30 a.m. from SJPDP. Not exactly an early start.

 

[trecile]

It was April 11, 2015 at approximately 8:30 a.m. from SJPDP. Not exactly an early start.

Not exactly a late start either!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

It was April 11, 2015 at approximately 8:30 a.m. from SJPDP. Not exactly an early start.

I started on April 14th, 2015, although I'm sure I never caught up with you. "So close, yet so far" as the old saying goes.

 

[Former member 115996]

There is a bus at 7:00 pm from Pamplona to Roncesvalles.

Is there? Could you please post a link to the schedule? I would love to use this bus in the future

 

[nickyvee]

Our first Camino, we started in SJPDP and arrived in Roncesvalles at 8:04 p.m. Not because we started late from SJPDP, but because we ran into snow on the trail, and because of the snow (and fog), we had trouble in one area finding markers and had to backtrack, and then later we missed the path that avoids the steep albeit very beautiful forest path. It's easy to miss that junction even on a sunny day. The downhill was very painful on our toes, which we had not prepared for, and the pain slowed us down (at times I had to walk backward to avoid the pain). Fortunately, we had booked one of the hotels in Roncesvalles, and their restaurant was open until 9:00, but getting to dinner before closing time was a scramble.

We had no idea what we were doing, we stumbled upon the Camino in 2015 and made almost no plans beyond Roncesvalles. In hindsight, we were very lucky that it wasn't especially cold or raining. We would have been in very big trouble because our phone battery died midway, and we were the only people on the trail at that late hour. Of course, now we start from Orisson or Hunto, we carry lots of extra portable chargers, food, and we plan a nap each day.

The first two photos from 2015 photos were taken at 5:44 p.m. (not sure where ) and 6:46 p.m. (walking backward a few steps to relieve pain on the downhill). We brought a camera on the first walk. The last photo was taken between Orisson and Roncesvalles in 2022 at 2:04 p.m. (the perfect time for a nap).

View attachment 177710View attachment 177711View attachment 177712

Thanks for posting these pictures. Puts things in the right perspective. As I'm sure you have planned for the hike, you adapted and adjusted your plans once you encountered the real conditions on the ground. We'll done!

For JonnyRosa - It's your hike. We can only advice that you plan for contingencies. As a retired military officer, I can tell you that rarely does a plan survives first contact with the enemy

 

[C clearly]

There is a bus at 7:00 pm from Pamplona to Roncesvalles

Is there? Could you please post a link to the schedule? I would love to use this bus in the future

I have moved the responses to this question to a separate thread here.

 

[Damien Reynolds]

So when I first read the original post my thought was, "ooh, that sounds tough... that first day on the Napoleon is the most physically challenging day of any of the Caminos I've ever walked..."

As luck would have it, I started the Frances today and did a test, my results are below...

Some things to consider:
1) I consider myself in the 95th percentile as far as fitness and speed for peregrinos.
2) My training this year has consisted of a) Mid-Jan to Mid March: Camino Mozarabe 1440 km, Frances (Astorga - SdC, finishing up a camino I had to leave early the year before) 259 km
b) Mid April - July: Pacific Crest Trail (Campo - Quincy, CA) 2000 km
c) August 23-Sept 16: Camino del Norte 835 km.
3) So this was really like day 25 on the Camino this trip.

I busted my butt to do this today.

YMMV.

Note: this track is from the gate just at the edge of SJPdP to the back door of the Albergue at Roncesvalles...

 

[JonnyRosa]

So when I first read the original post my thought was, "ooh, that sounds tough... that first day on the Napoleon is the most physically challenging day of any of the Caminos I've ever walked..."

As luck would have it, I started the Frances today and did a test, my results are below...

Some things to consider:
1) I consider myself in the 95th percentile as far as fitness and speed for peregrinos.
2) My training this year has consisted of a) Mid-Jan to Mid March: Camino Mozarabe 1440 km, Frances (Astorga - SdC, finishing up a camino I had to leave early the year before) 259 km
b) Mid April - July: Pacific Crest Trail (Campo - Quincy, CA) 2000 km
c) August 23-Sept 16: Camino del Norte 835 km.
3) So this was really like day 25 on the Camino this trip.

I busted my butt to do this today.

YMMV.

Note: this track is from the gate just at the edge of SJPdP to the back door of the Albergue at Roncesvalles...

Hi Damien,
Thank you very much for your effort directly linked to enriching this topic with the best quality information.

Fantastic work!

There is no doubt that to achieve these numbers physical fitness is essential, and that both I and most members of this forum do not recommend such activity.
Just out of curiosity, would you please, so kind as to answer the following questions:

What time did you start the trail?

In the final part of the descent, is the path easy to identify, without many sections closed by the forest?

Of your "no movement" time, how much percent would you classify as rest time?

 

[Camino Chrissy]

The key here imo, is that @Damien Reynolds is saying he is in the 95% percentile range in fitness level...which speaks volumes for his success at going "up and over".

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Thanks for the report @Damien Reynolds.

I just want to add here that you were showing the results of the Wikiloc app and, for those not familiar with it, its average speed results are based dividing the distance by the moving time and even a pause of a few seconds to take in a view or catch your breath doesn't count as moving time. When I use Wikiloc on my exercise walks I compute the average time using the total time figure.

 

[Anhalter]

So someone with around 4.500km worth of trail legs can apparently do it in 5h. Interesting to know.
(Not that i fancy beating that time)

 

[Damien Reynolds]

Thanks for the report @Damien Reynolds.

I just want to add here that you were showing the results of the Wikiloc app and, for those not familiar with it, its average speed results are based dividing the distance by the moving time and even a pause of a few seconds to take in a view or catch your breath doesn't count as moving time. When I use Wikiloc on my exercise walks I compute the average time using the total time figure.

I stopped twice. Once at orrison for coffee and then at the food truck for lunch. There were no pauses.

 

[Damien Reynolds]

What time did you start the trail?

I think I finally got going around 10:40 or so. I had to take a taxi from Pamplona this am, then get a stamp, coffee, etc.

In the final part of the descent, is the path easy to identify, without many sections closed by the forest?

I should have mentioned, I took the longer "mas tranquilo" path to the right. I am not sure I am the right person to ask about being able to identify the trail because I am very familiar with it. There are a bunch of different routes down and I know the short cuts.

Of your "no movement" time, how much percent would you classify as rest time?

99.99% of my no movement time was rest/coffee/eating. (The .01% is when I had to pee.)

 

[CWBuff]

@Damien Reynolds is saying he is in the 95% percentile range in fitness level..

me too... I am in the "other" 95% range....

all i can say that IMHO even at the fittest that I can be in my current state & age - there is NO WAY I am making SJ to Roncesvalles in 5 hours. Took me 8 from Orisson and "going to the right" at Col L.
OK couple of breaks (by the food truck, a relatively short one by Roland Fountain and on top of Col L) but still....

 

[henrythedog]

I stopped twice. Once at orrison for coffee and then at the food truck for lunch. There were no pauses.

That is seriously fast.

Off-road (which I appreciate this isn’t, I ascend 400m/hour or cover 5km/hr. I’m certain of the timings based on years in the hills in the UK and Central Europe. I’m fairly fit and I can keep going, literally, all day. That rate gives me a ‘standard time’ of 8.5 hours (including stops). On a paved surface it would be 7.5.

Five hours? Chapeau!

 

[LeslieC]

Hi, Jonny.

You absolutely don't want to have to overnight in the Pyrenees. I did - it's most unpleasant even in a tent, and it doesn't sound like you'll carry one of those ...

I heartily endorse Trecile's suggestion, many posts back: if you're staying in Pamplona when you arrive, just start walking from there the next morning. The whole myth about 'having' to start in St. Jean is well past its use-by date!

 

[JonnyRosa]

Hi, Jonny.

You absolutely don't want to have to overnight in the Pyrenees. I did - it's most unpleasant even in a tent, and it doesn't sound like you'll carry one of those ...

I heartily endorse Trecile's suggestion, many posts back: if you're staying in Pamplona when you arrive, just start walking from there the next morning. The whole myth about 'having' to start in St. Jean is well past its use-by date!

Hi LeslieC,

I've never seen a report of someone spending the night in the Pyrenees, I imagine it would be quite unpleasant, but your report makes things more true.

The idea of starting in Pamplona, or anywhere else, makes perfect sense. I confess that I had already wondered if the French Way started in SJPP at the city gates, or in front of the pilgrims' office, anyway, thinking about it, it doesn't make much sense to have a zero point other than the first step towards Santiago.

 

[Former member 115996]

If you start in Pamplona, be prepared to meet many pilgrims on your way to Santiago, who will ask you over and over the same iconic question: "In Pamplona? Really? Why didn't you want to walk the WHOLE Camino?"

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I confess that I had already wondered if the French Way started in SJPP at the city gates, or in front of the pilgrims' office

If you start in SJPdP start at the pilgrim office, Les Amis Du Chemin De Saint Jacques. Get the latest weather report and other notices (including their map showing how to take the safe way down from from the Col de Lepoeder).
Then head downhill 170 meters to the town gate, Ponte Notre-Dame, and the bridge.

Click to enlarge

 

[WalkingLester]

If you start in Pamplona, be prepared to meet many pilgrims on your way to Santiago, who will ask you over and over the same iconic question: "In Pamplona? Really? Why didn't you want to walk the WHOLE Camino?"

Just tell them you started in Geneva, drop the mic, and walk away. I’ve met people who started in Geneva, Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam. Kind of makes SJPP look weak. But people love to keep score.

 

[Harland2019]

Sometimes people ask you for different reasons! I was walking the 630 South West Coast Path in England when a guy came across whilst I was sitting having a rest and a bit to eat watching the harbour traffic. He asked what I was walking. Having told him, I saw that he had left a rucksack a short distance away, I felt compelled to ask what he was doing only to be told he was walking around the coast of Britain!

 

[Kathor1]

I will arrive in Madrid on October 1st and then fly to Pamplona on the same day.

Hi again, @JonnyRosa . Are we still on for the 2nd and a start from SJPP?

The weather on Meteoblue has still only medium predictability but it does not look too brilliant for the 2nd. Rain and low hanging clouds on the way to and from the Collado de Bentarte are a strong possibility.

Please let us know what you finally decided to do and how it went. Buen Camino!!!

 

[JonnyRosa]

Hi again, @JonnyRosa . Are we still on for the 2nd and a start from SJPP?

The weather on Meteoblue has still only medium predictability but it does not look too brilliant for the 2nd. Rain and low hanging clouds on the way to and from the Collado de Bentarte are a strong possibility.

Please let us know what you finally decided to do and how it went. Buen Camino!!!

Hi Kathar1na,
I arrived in Madrid today and am waiting for my flight to Pamplona. I am very happy with the weather forecast, but I will check it tomorrow. I will write tomorrow with details.

 

[Thyme_Is_Running_Out]

In early October, I plan to do the route from Sant Jean Pied de Port to Roncesvalles, leaving SJPP in the afternoon, around 2:30 p.m. I walk frequently and quickly, averaging 6 km/h. I would like to know if any of my colleagues have already done this route in the afternoon and what challenges I might be forgetting.

I can't even imagine leaving that late and I've never heard of anybody else doing it. I wouldn't walk over the Pyrenees in in the dark. It can be very cold up there and there a couple of spots where it may be hard to see and follow the arrows. Play it safe and leave the next morning.

 

[Elizabeth-o]

I agree with previous messages that it's not a good idea to start from SJPP in the afternoon for MANY reasons, I will add that you would miss some of the panoramas of the trek between there and Roncevalles. Why do this to yourself?

 

[Richard A Stead]

In early October, I plan to do the route from Sant Jean Pied de Port to Roncesvalles, leaving SJPP in the afternoon, around 2:30 p.m. I walk frequently and quickly, averaging 6 km/h. I would like to know if any of my colleagues have already done this route in the afternoon and what challenges I might be forgetting.

The first day is brutal. You won’t average more than 4 and if you hit mist/cloud at the top you’ll have a good chance of losing the route. Stay at Orisson or start from SJ in the morning.

 

[henrythedog]

On the positive side, it is now October and our esteemed colleague @JonnyRosa will have either succeeded or failed sometime within the next two weeks. In the event of success, I do hope he makes a report so that many might admit the slim possibility that they were wrong.

In the event of catastrophic failure, I suppose, a personal report might not be forthcoming.

 

[LeslieC]

Per post #288, he's probably getting on his Pamplona flight from Madrid as we speak.

I had the impression he'd listened to our various suggestions and would now start walking from Pamplona. But I look forward to hearing from him either way.

 

[Dani7]

Wishing you a most excellent first day’s walk to Roncesvalles (despite the rain) if you are starting Tuesday the 2nd. Take care and buen camino.

 

[Kathor1]

My breath is bated . And we can already say that of all the predictions in the thread, whether dire or optimistic, this one prediction from a month ago has not come to fruition:

I predict that OP will not be able to walk the Napoleon Route in October because it will be officially closed. Just like the Somport Way is already closed. Orisson Refuge is closing on October 17th for a reason. In fact, I think this year the pass will close much earlier than usual (just a feeling in the gut).

The poster is a former poster so no loss of face there. I knew already then that the prediction was unfounded for several reasons but I did not react as I am economical with my posts.

At 11 am today, the views towards the higher Pyrenees are not too bad. You can see the Pic d'Orhy with its 2017 m, without snow obviously. Today's weather is not too brilliant but for the next few days it's likely to be a mix of sunshine and clouds and even a possible top maximum temperature of 20 ºC on the Collado de Bentarte! Happy autumn walking!

 

[Kathor1]

And now, at 2 pm, the clouds are moving in and the Pic d'Orhy is nowhere to be seen. Lucky are those who started early in the morning today in SJPP ... they must have had better views than those who are now arriving on the Alsa bus from Pamplona ...

 

[JabbaPapa]

Hi Kathar1na,
I arrived in Madrid today and am waiting for my flight to Pamplona. I am very happy with the weather forecast, but I will check it tomorrow. I will write tomorrow with details.

Well, good luck and Buen Camino !!

 

[stewinyvr]

Perhaps you should ask your colleagues. I don't think any of us would know what they have done!

You have already heard what other forum members have said, but lets put some numbers around this. On 1 Oct, sunset at Roncesvalles will be about 1947, and civil twilight will end about 30 minutes later at 2018. Barring weather effects, if you leave SJPP around 1430, you will have a bit over five hours of daylight, and not quite six hours where you might be able to walk without artificial lighting. But you will also be walking through wooded areas that will be darker earlier.

Based on a gpx track from the Spanish mapping agency, I estimate the flat equivalent distance for Route Napoleon to be about 39 km. At 6 km/hr, that would be the equivalent of 6.5 hours walking. If you take even as short a break as 30 min, you will need 7.0 hours, and this will mean arriving well after the end of civil twilight.

By mid-Oct, sunset and the end of civil twilight will be about 30 minutes earlier.

note: Brierley suggests the flat equivalent for someone walking at 3 km/hr is 31 km based on an extra 10 min for every 100m of climb. Adjusting his calculations for your faster pace results in a flat equivalent of 39.33 km. I come at this a slightly simpler way, but with a very similar result, 38.72 km.

It seems that your own duration estimate is 4.5 hours. That would equate to a flat terrain speed of about 8.7 km/hr. I don't think that is very realistic as a planning speed.

I would say your estimate based on GPS tracks are very close. I generally hike around 6km/h and I managed the Napoleon Route in 6:15 including a short 15min stop. I had what I would consider ideal conditions at the beginning of September. I did not take the route through the woods, but even still the downhill section was a challenge, I would not want to do this section in the dark. I would also caution that if you do not usually hike with a pack of the same weight you will carry you may be surprised at the impact even a small amount of additional weight will have. I hike a lot and it still took my knees a number of days to get used to the additional weight.

 

[Kathor1]

It's 5 pm now and you would not know that you are in the Pyrenees because you cannot see any mountains. The image is smudged because of the raindrops that are falling on the webcam camera. About two and a half hours left until it gets dark.

 

[JonnyRosa]

Most people probably already know that young people are usually impulsive and don't usually listen to the advice they receive. I'm not much different. Although I listen to the advice I receive, I usually plan, mitigate risks, and follow my plan. And even more importantly, I know how to distinguish courage from wisdom.

Perhaps trying to apologize for my stubbornness, I want to explain that I try to receive praise and criticism in the same way, without praising myself or getting upset, because there are always different angles to analyze something.

Today, traveling by bus from Pamplona to SJPP, we passed through Roncesvalles. In Roncesvalles, it was raining and the fog was all over the mountain.

Even though I was a little upset, I decided to spend the night in SJPP and leave for Roncesvalles tomorrow morning.

Tomorrow I'll tell you how the journey went and how I got there.