Cheating

[Zoran K.]

I am on CF right now and just stopped in Os Arroxos Crispeta bar in Trabadelo.
A Spanish pilgrim had exactly the same order as me and he paid 6.50 euro and I was charged 10.00 euro!!! It is not first time on Camino that I've experienced that and people should know which places will cheat you because you are not local.
It is a shame that this is happening.
Buen Camino

 

[SabsP]

Yes, this can happen.

See this thread. Next time you order you might ask the price beforehand so you can decide to stay or not.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/the-price-of-items-in-bars-and-cafes.87771/#post-1272665

 

[Bedspring]

Yes, I started the other thread.
I think a possible solution to this, is to ask to see the price list, which I suspect they have by Law to display. Obviously looking before is the best idea, however in the situation you found yourself in, it could be a solution.
It would be helpful if someone could give the Spanish for asking to see this Tariff.
Google reviews is another course of action. People in tourist places used to think that they can rip tourists off because they will never see them again, but Google reviews changes this.

 

[VNwalking]

Sure, this happens sometimes.
But why get hot under the collar when a local gets a discount? It's not cheating, it's preferential treatment because you're perceived as the tourist and he's not. You'll be much happier when you let it go.

 

[TravellingMan22]

I am on CF right now and just stopped in Os Arroxos Crispeta bar in Trabadelo.
A Spanish pilgrim had exactly the same order as me and he paid 6.50 euro and I was charged 10.00 euro!!! It is not first time on Camino that I've experienced that and people should know which places will cheat you because you are not local.
It is a shame that this is happening.
Buen Camino

Pretty grim that! Some places charge a surcharge sitting outdoors but I assume not in this case. That said I think Spain rates as one of the places LEAST [edited later, to insert that word, which was mistakenly omitted] likely to rip you off certainly from a bar standpoint. And certainly on the Camino. Often it so cheap there not a lot of room
to charge locals less! I have not knowingly experienced this and don’t feel it’s too widespread !

 

[Bedspring]

Pretty grim that! Some places charge a surcharge sitting outdoors but I assume not in this case. That said I think Spanish rates as one of the places likely to rip you off certainly from a bar standpoint. And certainly on the Camino. Often it so cheap there not a lot of room
to charge locals less!

When I was flying back from Santander I got chatting with a lad from Granada who works in a Bar in Yorkshire, about just this subject, and he said that Bar people in Spain have to be watched for ripping you off. Also, I noticed in quite a few bars machines that the staff put the cash in, and they automatically dipense the change, so perhaps it is not the bar owners but staff ripping people off, and pocketing the difference.
On my next trip, I will definitely be asking to see the price list.

Of course, some people who are happy to be ripped off, need not bother.

 

[Tortilla]

On Google there is actually a review left by a Spanish pilgrim, who complained that in this bar he was charged more than the locals. So there is no discrimination based on country of origin - next time try ordering food in a bar using Bierzo accent

 

[TravellingMan22]

When I was flying back from Santander I got chatting with a lad from Granada who works in a Bar in Yorkshire, about just this subject, and he said that Bar people in Spain have to be watched for ripping you off. Also, I noticed in quite a few bars machines that the staff put the cash in, and they automatically dipense the change, so perhaps it is not the bar owners but staff ripping people off, and pocketing the difference.
On my next trip, I will definitely be asking to see the price list.

Of course, some people who are happy to be ripped off, need not bother.

Ah thank you. Good insight. I tend to stay in Spain for months at a time, often frequent the same bars, reading my copy of Marca, the daily sport paper, and talk to the barman and the old fellas about football! Neighbourhoods I guess rather than cities. Real Spain I guess not the Camino or big cities. Often become an adopted local I guess and have probably had a fair bit of upside in terms of having my glass topped up, free tapas and the like. I will keep an eye out though! Going Coruna for three weeks next month so will be on the case!!

 

[Bedspring]

Sure, this happens sometimes.
But why get hot under the collar when a local gets a discount? It's not cheating, it's preferential treatment because you're perceived as the tourist and he's not. You'll be much happier when you let it go.

If a local gets a discount on the price on the price list, thats fine by me, so long as I do not pay more than is on the price list. One is a discount, the other is dishonest.

 

[TravellingMan22]

If a local gets a discount on the price on the price list, thats fine by me, so long as I do not pay more than is on the price list. One is a discount, the other is dishonest.

With regard to bars, not a big fan of a locals getting a discount. If a Spanish person came into my local bar in the UK and got charged more I would be disappointed tbh.

 

[Bedspring]

With regard to bars, not a big fan of a locals getting a discount. If a Spanish person came into my local bar in
UK and got charged more I would be disappointed tbh.

It happens in the Lake District, I know because I get such a discount. I also get discounts for being old and for being a student

 

[TravellingMan22]

It happens in the Lake District, I know because I get such a discount. I also get discounts for being old and for being a student

Ah ok! Not often there but will look for it. Is it just foreigners who get ripped off, or UK folks too! As a southerner I imagine some may take great delight in ripping me off!! I have been palmed off with fake notes a few time and when I lived in India there were all sorts of scams! Got charged for 4 big bags in an Auto once when I only had land luggage. Important thing is to win more than you lose!

 

[Bedspring]

Ah ok! Not often there but will look for it. Is it just foreigners who get ripped off, or UK folks too! As a southerner I imagine some may take great delight in ripping me off!! I have been palmed off with fake notes a few time and when I lived in India there were all sorts of scams! Got charged for 4 big bags in an Auto once when I only had land luggage. Important thing is to win more than you lose!

I just feel when I go to the South, which for me starts in Cheshire I am being robbed all the time. A pint in my local is £3.50 ;-)

 

[JCLima]

If a local gets a discount on the price on the price list, thats fine by me, so long as I do not pay more than is on the price list. One is a discount, the other is dishonest.

I live in a place that gets really popular during two weeks in the summer in Portugal
During those two weeks the prices increase on the menus but the shopkeepers charge me the "normal" price because I'm a local

 

[TravellingMan22]

I live in a place that gets really popular during two weeks in the summer in Portugal
During those two weeks the prices increase on the menus but the shopkeepers charge me the "normal" price because I'm a local

It’s a fine line but I am cool with that….you are a regular and giving lots of business all year round in off peak. Free drinker schemes get a thumbs up from me. It’s more the adhoc stuff.

That said I guess I’m a hypocrite. In my youth I don’t remember complaining about ladies getting free entry and cheaper drinks in our local nightclub!

 

[roving_rufus]

Having lived in tourist areas as a local in Ireland I will get charged the same price but might get a free tea or coffee on the house, maybe even the odd bun or cake, or a free side of chips with a sandwich. Because the owners and staff know you will be back in the winter quiet months to sustain their business, and acknowledging your ongoing support even in the crazy tourist season when it's hard for locals to get in.

Think of it like a loyalty discount, like collecting points or getting your 10th coffee free. You aren't being penalised but they are being rewarded for loyalty.

 

[MikeJS]

A ‘locals’ discount is not that unusual in UK in the smaller places. I have no problem with it either here or abroad.

 

[Pelegrin]

In a bar, a Spanish pilgrim is far from being considered "a local".

 

[Waka]

This sort of thing happens all over the world, is it right, I have no opinion either way. Lets be honest it's not expensive to walk the camino, enjoy the accommodation and food and enjoy.

 

[Bedspring]

A ‘locals’ discount is not that unusual in UK in the smaller places. I have no problem with it either here or abroad.

There seems to be broad agreement on that.

The issue is that in some bars, the person serving may just pluck a figure from this air to charge you, when there is in actually a price list that should be displayed by law, and you should not be charged more than this. The reason that legislators say a price list should be displayed, even though it might be at the end of the bar, and you will need your glasses to read it, is that bar people have been cheating strangers since Santiago was a lad.

 

[Kathar1na]

In a bar, a Spanish pilgrim is far from being considered "a local".

I noticed in the first post that it is not clear whether the other customer was a "Spanish pilgrim" or a "local".

And in order to know whether it was "cheating" or "a discount" it would be useful to know what the official price for the purchased items was.

The Google and Tripadvisor reviews of the bar-albergue Crispeta in Trabadelo cover the usual range from "best place ever" and "friendly service" to "rude behaviour of the serving staff" and from "highly recommended" to "never again". One reviewer says that "they serve locals first" and one reviewer (with a Spanish looking name btw) writes in Spanish that "he charges the pilgrims more than the townspeople, he did it in front of us".

 

[TravellingMan22]

L

There seems to be broad agreement on that.

The issue is that in some bars, the person serving may just pluck a figure from this air to charge you, when there is in actually a price list that should be displayed by law, and you should not be charged more than this. The reason that legislators say a price list should be displayed, even though it might be at the end of the bar, and you will need your glasses to read it, is that bar people have been cheating strangers since Santiago was a lad.

I guess I do on intuition. I tend to frequent cheap end local bars. A glass of wine rarely goes above €2. It may be €1.50 next door but happy to pay more if I like the place or there are some interesting looking characters in. I don’t tend to ask the price although I would do in central BCN or MAD. Leaves me open I guess but happy to roll with that.

The one thing I do notice is that they rarely seem to know how many drinks you have had anyway. Often I just get asked at the end or get presented a bill that is wrong. They nearly always present a bill for less than it should be. I have had a bill where I have had five wines and the bill is for two. I don’t recall ever been charged for more drinks. I always fess up - not comfortable walking away without paying my way!

Totally onboard with frequent costumers getting a few perks but someone getting charged more because they are easy prey sits less easy.

 

[alexwalker]

la lista de precios por favor.

 

[Bedspring]

la lista de precios por favor.

Mucho Gracias.

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

I am on CF right now and just stopped in Os Arroxos Crispeta bar in Trabadelo.
A Spanish pilgrim had exactly the same order as me and he paid 6.50 euro and I was charged 10.00 euro!!! It is not first time on Camino that I've experienced that and people should know which places will cheat you because you are not local.
It is a shame that this is happening.
Buen Camino

It can happen and dishonesty is sadly a human trait. For the recird, it's happened to me on an occasion, and I'm Spanish.

In any case, you should always be given the receipt where you will see the breakdown of what you ate and drank. And if you are not given it, then ask for it, it is not rude.

 

[TravellingMan22]

It can happen and dishonesty is sadly a human trait. For the recird, it's happened to me on an occasion, and I'm Spanish.

In any case, you should always be given the receipt where you will see the breakdown of what you ate and drank. And if you are not given it, then ask for it, it is not rude.

To be honest, the places I frequent , rarely see a a paper bill and often don’t know what the charge is. I just run my card on the machine. The value pops on my phone instantly. Normally I am happy with the charge I see!

 

[Grousedoctor]

Sure, this happens sometimes.
But why get hot under the collar when a local gets a discount? It's not cheating, it's preferential treatment because you're perceived as the tourist and he's not. You'll be much happier when you let it go.

Such good advice here. Let it go! You weren’t cheated, you were charged a different price than what native Spanish speaking people or locals pay. It happens everywhere. You undoubtedly get certain benefits in your own local pubs and restaurants that tourists don’t receive.

Rather than hanging on to what was a negative experience for you, focus instead on everything you have reason to be grateful for including what may have been a very good meal for only €10. I know that I don’t have enough fingers on both hands to count my daily blessings and things I am grateful for when being able to walk the Camino. Going forward, and you still have a long way to Santiago, think about all the tiny to large things we all have to be grateful for because we have this amazing opportunity to be on The Way. Look at your glass as half full, not half empty and marvel at where you are at this moment. Buen Camino!

 

[alexwalker]

In any case, you should always be given the receipt where you will see the breakdown of what you ate and drank. And if you are not given it, then ask for it, it is not rude.

el recibo por favor.

 

[davejsy]

I think a discount is fine for locals, many of whom are probably on a tighter budget than most Pilgrims. Also as we are seeing all over Spain tourism is pushing up the prices for everyone, not just locals, so yes they should get some discount for being the ones who are the life blood of these places we are lucky enough to get to walk through. But, it has to be a discount to the published price. I don't think this could in anyway be classed as cheating.

And I think at the end of the day a better measure is if you feel you have got value for money no matter who pays what.

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

To be honest, the places I frequent , rarely see a a paper bill and often don’t know what the charge is. I just run my card on the machine. The value pops on my phone instantly. Normally I am happy with the charge I see!

not sure what you mean by the places ''i frequent. on the camino'', but i'm pretty sure anywhere you either get the bill/'tique' without asking for it, or you can ask for it. the breakdown should be on the piece of paper.

likewise, i believe there is a law where the bars must display the prices, drinks and such, on a wall, etc. in theory at least. the menus must always indicate of the IVA is included and/or cubierto/service.

finally, spanish pilgrims are not locals. we will get ripped off just like the pilgrims from abroad. the server just might think twice.

 

[Bedspring]

Such good advice here. Let it go! You weren’t cheated, you were charged a different price than what native Spanish speaking people or locals pay. It happens everywhere. You undoubtedly get certain benefits in your own local pubs and restaurants that tourists don’t receive.

Rather than hanging on to what was a negative experience for you, focus instead on everything you have reason to be grateful for including what may have been a very good meal for only €10. I know that I don’t have enough fingers on both hands to count my daily blessings and things I am grateful for when being able to walk the Camino. Going forward, and you still have a long way to Santiago, think about all the tiny to large things we all have to be grateful for because we have this amazing opportunity to be on The Way. Look at your glass as half full, not half empty and marvel at where you are at this moment. Buen Camino!

Or, you could say, Hola, la lista de precios por favor.
Buen Camino

 

[Zoran K.]

In a bar, a Spanish pilgrim is far from being considered "a local".

A price is a price. That's why there are prices on menus and such. I felt cheated, and it s not about the money!

 

[Bedspring]

A price is a price. That's why there are prices on menus and such. I felt cheated, and it s not about the money!

Absolutely. TBH, telling you to get over it and count your blessings is rather insensitive and condescending.

 

[Zoran K.]

Absolutely. TBH, telling you to get over it and count your blessings is rather insensitive and condescending.

I hear you, however... I have a business of my own and would never do that to any of my guests and non locals are 99% of them. It is just not ok. "Count your blessings", you can use that on absolutely everything. You are totaly missing the point and whatever you call it, it was cheating! End of story.

 

[Bedspring]

I hear you, however... I have a business of my own and would never do that to any of my guests and non locals are 99% of them. It is just not ok. "Count your blessings", you can use that on absolutely everything. You are totaly missing the point and whatever you call it, it was cheating! End of story.

Possibly read my reply again

 

[Zoran K.]

Possibly read my reply again

Hahahahahs

 

[m108]

It's probably not the first time you've heard about different prices for locals and foreigners - this is a fairly common practice in Croatia as well. Is this inappropriate - I don't think so, I definitely don't think it's cheating. If you have a bad feeling about it, ask for a price in advance.

Naša anketa o različitim cijenama za domaće i strance izazvala more komentara, javio se i ugostitelj: To je moja stvar

Goruća tema ovih dana splitski su kafići, a lome se koplja oko toga je li pošteno da ugostitelji domaćim gostima naplaćuju manje nego turistima. Dok u Dubrovniku ovakva praksa popusta za domaće...

slobodnadalmacija.hr

 

[Jodean]

I go to the same cafe every morning in Frankfurt, and the employees always give me a discount. If a tourist was behind me, would they think I was getting the "local" price?
Pretty sure places on the Camino have regulars or maybe even family members that get a discounted price. I wouldn't get my panties in a twist about it.

 

[ukjohn99]

I am on CF right now and just stopped in Os Arroxos Crispeta bar in Trabadelo.
A Spanish pilgrim had exactly the same order as me and he paid 6.50 euro and I was charged 10.00 euro!!! It is not first time on Camino that I've experienced that and people should know which places will cheat you because you are not local.
It is a shame that this is happening.
Buen Camino

It's not cheating. A few countries and cities have higher prices for tourists than the locals and I see nothing wrong with that.

 

[Silvermomma]

Interesting thread. On my caminos I have always felt that bar/cafe servers were just making up random amounts to charge me. They were never exorbitant - and nothing like inflated US prices - so I didn't care much. Also always appreciated a free bite of bocadillo or tortilla, when the timing is right.

 

[Mark Francis Auchincloss]

Yes, I started the other thread.
I think a possible solution to this, is to ask to see the price list, which I suspect they have by Law to display. Obviously looking before is the best idea, however in the situation you found yourself in, it could be a solution.
It would be helpful if someone could give the Spanish for asking to see this Tariff.
Google reviews is another course of action. People in tourist places used to think that they can rip tourists off because they will never see them again, but Google reviews changes this.

@Bedspring I agree with you being an active Google Maps Local Guide myself (level 10). I would leave a negative review which can really hurt a local business because many people will read your review and decide to give the bar a miss. If you leave a review I would be prepared to give your post on Google Maps a like, the more support it gets the more swing it holds.

 

[Zoran K.]

I noticed in the first post that it is not clear whether the other customer was a "Spanish pilgrim" or a "local".

And in order to know whether it was "cheating" or "a discount" it would be useful to know what the official price for the purchased items was.

The Google and Tripadvisor reviews of the bar-albergue Crispeta in Trabadelo cover the usual range from "best place ever" and "friendly service" to "rude behaviour of the serving staff" and from "highly recommended" to "never again". One reviewer says that "they serve locals first" and one reviewer (with a Spanish looking name btw) writes in Spanish that "he charges the pilgrims more than the townspeople, he did it in front of us".

The other customer was a "Spanish pilgrim" and maybe a "local" as he had small backpack, who knows.

I checked the official price (list) for the purchased items was 6.50 euro afterwards but my Spanish is zero so I couldn't argue but I talked to the "local pilgrim" in question and he was very nice about it and appologiesed for that wrongdoing. As I said, nothing to do with money but principal, moral, Camino spirit and something I would never do.

 

[Zoran K.]

@Bedspring I agree with you being an active Google Maps Local Guide myself (level 10). I would leave a negative review which can really hurt a local business because many people will read your review and decide to give the bar a miss. If you leave a review I would be prepared to give your post on Google Maps a like, the more support it gets the more swing it holds.

Thanks but honestly, I'd have to look it up on Google and waste my time. I walked CF 4 times and coming back in 2025 but will not stop there. Good and lively discussion about the topic. I had ni idea it was tha "common". I guess I am naive despite my age

 

[TravellingMan22]

not sure what you mean by the places ''i frequent. on the camino'', but i'm pretty sure anywhere you either get the bill/'tique' without asking for it, or you can ask for it. the breakdown should be on the piece of paper.

likewise, i believe there is a law where the bars must display the prices, drinks and such, on a wall, etc. in theory at least. the menus must always indicate of the IVA is included and/or cubierto/service.

finally, spanish pilgrims are not locals. we will get ripped off just like the pilgrims from abroad. the server just might think twice.

I mean what I have said really. I not am Spanish but have probably spent about 2 of the last 4 years there. Only about 2.5 months of that on Camino. The sort of place I go to will tend to charge wine about €1.5 to €3 so if the cost for say 4 drinks rolls up to €12 I tap and go. If with someone else one of us will it pick it up or halve it. I don’t recall getting many paper bills though maybe I have missed it. I understand the law but if i been speaking to barman for a while it just informal. I’m not really one for poring over the bill esp. when numbers are so small. I’m not one for ‘nickle and diming’ stuff and you invariably end up buying and receiving drinks from folks at the bar so it’s gut feel anyway. A recent month in Cordoba we had breakfast at the same place everyday. And the same food and drink. After about five days the waiteess brought out the coffee without us even asking. The charge was the same everyday and no paper bill was offered.

I have always found the Spanish bar folks super trustful. Yet to feel I have been had over.

 

[Zoran K.]

It's not cheating. A few countries and cities have higher prices for tourists than the locals and I see nothing wrong with that.

It is cheating because otherwise there is no point of legal price list and if it is not cheating they shoul have two price list so everyone can see them and have a choice. As I said, it is not about tje money!

 

[Rex]

So many great responses here. This happens globally in many resorts and "snowbird" locales, even in the good ol' USA. My wife and I happen to live part of the year in a popular "snowbird" destination where we have been going for the winter for upwards of 20 years. A couple of years ago the electrician who occasionally does odd jobs at our house, gave me a rather lowball bid for some work. I questioned him, feeling it was too low. He just shrugged and said, "it's the price for locals". I wasn't unhappy to be getting the local price, and only then did I realize that for years, I'd been charged the "tourist" price (which had never made me unhappy before). I thanked him but didn't ask him what changed my status; I was just grateful for the discount.
In some places on the Via Francigena, there are restaurants that offer a "pilgrim" menu, fixed price. However, in Radicofani, when I inquired about that menu, I was told it was for the first X number of pilgrims and I was too late. I was offered the regular menu, which was quite a bit more expensive, and I moved on to another restaurant. Only time that has happened on any of my camino hikes.
Buen Camino.

 

[Zoran K.]

So many great responses here. This happens globally in many resorts and "snowbird" locales, even in the good ol' USA. My wife and I happen to live part of the year in a popular "snowbird" destination where we have been going for the winter for upwards of 20 years. A couple of years ago the electrician who occasionally does odd jobs at our house, gave me a rather lowball bid for some work. I questioned him, feeling it was too low. He just shrugged and said, "it's the price for locals". I wasn't unhappy to be getting the local price, and only then did I realize that for years, I'd been charged the "tourist" price (which had never made me unhappy before). I thanked him but didn't ask him what changed my status; I was just grateful for the discount.
In some places on the Via Francigena, there are restaurants that offer a "pilgrim" menu, fixed price. However, in Radicofani, when I inquired about that menu, I was told it was for the first X number of pilgrims and I was too late. I was offered the regular menu, which was quite a bit more expensive, and I moved on to another restaurant. Only time that has happened on any of my camino hikes.
Buen Camino.

I've done full VF twice and haven't had similar experience in Italy. I guess it depends on the person behind the counter

 

[cubanisimo]

I am on CF right now and just stopped in Os Arroxos Crispeta bar in Trabadelo.
A Spanish pilgrim had exactly the same order as me and he paid 6.50 euro and I was charged 10.00 euro!!! It is not first time on Camino that I've experienced that and people should know which places will cheat you because you are not local.
It is a shame that this is happening.
Buen Camino

It's happened to me, so I have to vigilant. If you feel cheated, speak up and if it's not resolved, walk out. I speak Spanish (cuban) so I see through their little scams. Not everyone does it. Let it go and chalk it up to inexperience. Remember the adage. "Fool me once your fault. Fool me twice, my fault." Best wishes.
.
"

 

[C clearly]

That said I think Spain rates as one of the places likely to rip you off certainly from a bar standpoint. And certainly on the Camino.

I have not knowingly experienced this and don’t feel it’s too widespread !

I have always found the Spanish bar folks super trustful. Yet to feel I have been had over.

i am confused about your position. Did you leave a word out of the first quote above?

 

[MaxHelado]

I am on CF right now and just stopped in Os Arroxos Crispeta bar in Trabadelo.
A Spanish pilgrim had exactly the same order as me and he paid 6.50 euro and I was charged 10.00 euro!!! It is not first time on Camino that I've experienced that and people should know which places will cheat you because you are not local.
It is a shame that this is happening.
Buen Camino

I can totally understand your frustration. I would feel the same.
Given the price difference was so clear, did you ask about it? What response did you get?

 

[trecile]

If you feel you are being overcharged ask to see the price list. You can also ask to fill out a complaint form. Every business in Spain must have hojas de reclamaciones (complaint forns) available.

Consumer Complaint Forms / Hojas de Reclamaciones – Spain Expat

This article is about what are, and how to use, the official consumer complaint forms, known as <i>Hojas de Reclamaciones</i>, which allow any consumer who has a complaint against a Spanish restaurant, bar, shop, service provider, and many other businesses, to enter the complaint officially and...

www.spainexpat.com

 

[Anhalter]

On my caminos I have always felt that bar/cafe servers were just making up random amounts to charge me.

We had a great laugh about paying 5,50€ for 3 beers. But then, we paid 5,50€ for 3 beers, so we didn't bother complaining.

 

[TravellingMan22]

i am confused about your position. Did you leave a word out of the first quote above?

Ooh yes! Good spot! I was typing into an iPhone with a cracked screen with the sun shining right down very intensely! My eyes are still blurry now even though I have found shade! Thank you highlighting!

Should have read ‘That said I think Spain rates as one of the places least likely to rip you off certainly from a bar standpoint. And certainly on the Camino.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

A Spanish pilgrim had exactly the same order as me and he paid 6.50 euro and I was charged 10.00 euro!!!

I personally have no problem if a bar on the Camino or elsewhere chooses to give a discount to their local, loyal customers.
OTOH, I consider the disparity of the price difference in this particular case to be rather extreme gouging.

 

[Zoran K.]

I can totally understand your frustration. I would feel the same.
Given the price difference was so clear, did you ask about it? What response did you get?

I tried but I got the usual "no habla" so...

 

[TravellingMan22]

Seems like we are confusing a few things…

If you turn up at the Fornidden City iin Beijing, you will be paying more that the Chinese and it is clearly shown on the board. Similarly the EU charges special rates for EU citizens in some cases. They’re are millions of examples of this.

Then there are perks for locals, mates rates, lock ins, cheaper prices.

I have no problem with either.

But if I am at a Spanish bar and I get a drink charged at 50% more because I am not Spanish, well I’m not happy!

 

[VNwalking]

TBH, telling you to get over it and count your blessings is rather insensitive and condescending.

Not really. If someone wants to make themselves miserable by dwelling on a perceived (or actual) slight and then discussing it at length on social media - that's their choice. But it's only cultivating resentment - which negatively affects them, rather than the person the irritation is directed towards. In the moment maybe something could have been done. But after the fact? Never mind. The Camino is a joy. Why not pay attention to that instead? It's a much happier place.

But if I am at a Spanish bar and I get a drink charged at 50% more because I am not Spanish, well I’m not happy!

Sure. Who would be?
But deal with it in the moment with a hoja or something. Grizzling long after the fact only makes you unhappy. It doesn't affect the bar at all.

 

[C clearly]

Should have read ‘That said I think Spain rates as one of the places least likely to rip you off certainly from a bar standpoint. And certainly on the Camino.

I have edited your original post #5.

I was a a bit surprised when I read it, and was watching subsequent posts for a clue. The funny thing was that I sometimes found it hard to be sure who was on which "side" of the argument. People post merrily away without reading or listening.

 

[roisin431]

I am on CF right now and just stopped in Os Arroxos Crispeta bar in Trabadelo.
A Spanish pilgrim had exactly the same order as me and he paid 6.50 euro and I was charged 10.00 euro!!! It is not first time on Camino that I've experienced that and people should know which places will cheat you because you are not local.
It is a shame that this is happening.
Buen Camino

I noticed this too but I thought it was a good gesture to give discounts to locals. Often when you live in a place filled with tourists of any kind the increase in prices push the locals out. We are simple passing through while locals are returning again and again .

 

[TravellingMan22]

I have edited your original post #5.

I was a a bit surprised when I read it, and was watching subsequent posts for a clue. The funny thing was that I sometimes found it hard to be sure who was on which "side" of the argument. People post merrily away without reading or listening.

Ah thank you! Sorry to add to your workload. I have just spent two hours in a wellness centre which was quite dark and came out to bright sunlight! My eyes were on fire. Its was a very grey morning and forecast so ditched sunglasses. I wanted to post quickly before I consumed a couple of German beers. That will teach me!

Yea posts are increasingly all over the place! .

 

[TravellingMan22]

Not really. If someone wants to make themselves miserable by dwelling on a perceived (or actual) slight and then discussing it at length on social media - that's their choice. But it's only cultivating resentment - which negatively affects them, rather than the person the irritation is directed towards. In the moment maybe something could have been done. But after the fact? Never mind. The Camino is a joy. Why not pay attention to that instead? It's a much happier place.


Sure. Who would be?
But deal with it in the moment with a hoja or something. Grizzling long after the fact only makes you unhappy. It doesn't affect the bar at all.

Fear not, I do deal with it immediately and it doesn’t rankle. Never. It’s in the moment. If I walk out and don’t challenge then I’m at fault. As I say I have only had generosity in Spanish bars. Free drinks, free food, great prices and so on. If you are travelling alone sit at the bar and get involved. You. get properly looked after!

 

[alexwalker]

We had a great laugh about paying 5,50€ for 3 beers. But then, we paid 5,50€ for 3 beers, so we didn't bother complaining.

I have never felt cheated in Spain. In 16 years. On the contrary, I have felt welcome and respected. Maybe because I speak some Spanish?

Anyway, the price level in Spain (for everything) is way beyond that of my home country. I smile and am happy.

In my hometown, me and my partner go to town on rare occasions for a drink. I pay for my beer; she gets a glass of white free. We are locals, and the owner knows us. Fair and kind. And thus, the owner knows we will return for a drink and chat. We are not just passing by, demanding...

 

[TravellingMan22]

Certainly agree with that. I had a local pub in my hometown for about 15 years and we had the run of the place. We were always skint by the third week of the month so we could run a tab, we even poured our own beer sometime. We had plenty of perks but gave plenty back to them such as business by telling our mates what a great place it was. It was a very quaint pub but was right near LHR airport and next to a big hotel. All sorts came in and loved it! Pretty sure they paid the same prices as us tho!!

I have never felt cheated in Spain. In 16 years. On the contrary, I have felt welcome and respected. Maybe because I speak some Spanish?

Anyway, the price level in Spain (for everything) is way beyond that of my home country. I smile and am happy.

In my hometown, me and my partner go to town on rare occasions for a drink. I pay for my beer; she gets a glass of white free. We are locals, and the owner knows us. Fair and kind. And thus, the owner knows we will return for a drink and chat. We are not just passing by, demanding...

 

[alexwalker]

As a pilgrim, say "Thank you". As a pilgrim, do not demand. Spain is, anyway, cheaper than where you come from, most likely. Enjoy your economic support for Spain, and do not count your pennies too much. JMHO.

Edit: I find the Spanish to be very fair and honest. I feel very much more cheated by my own government and politicians here at home. But, I can converse and have fun with Spaniards, bc of my (limited) Spanish language skills. It helps a lot. I advice you to learn a few phrases of politeness, which are very important in Spain. It will help you a lot.

 

[TravellingMan22]

As a pilgrim, say "Thank you". As a pilgrim, do not demand. Spain is, anyway, cheaper than where you come from, most likely. Enjoy your economic support for Spain, and do not count your pennies too much. JMHO.

Edit: I find the Spanish to be very fair and honest. I feel very much more cheated by my own government and politicians.

JMHO too but I sense from this forum that many pilgrims are quite nervous about engaging with locals, many are introvert, nervous and don’t like crowds and want to be alone. Nothing wrong with that and as a very shy child and teenager I get it. There are also pressure to do laundry, edit blogs, sort photos, book hotac and so on. Add the fact that pilgrims are just passing through and in a different bar everyday I think it’s can be hard to engage and build even temporary relationship. Maybe a lot of locals see pilgrims as standoffish , here to get the job done. Maybe they seen them as cash cows to rinse every single € out of. Certainly when you stay for an extended period you see how trustworthy the Spanish are esp. in bars so I have really no concerns despite the odd shocker as reported here

 

[alexwalker]

JMHO too but I sense from this forum that many pilgrims are quite nervous about engaging with locals, many are introvert, nervous and don’t like crowds and want to be alone. Nothing wrong with that and as a very shy child and teenager I get it. There are also pressure to do laundry, edit blogs, sort photos, book hotac and so on. Add the fact that pilgrims are just passing through and in a different bar everyday I think it’s can be hard to engage and build even temporary relationship. Maybe alotnofnlocalsmsee
Pilgrim as Standpfflsh, here to get the job hone. Certainly when you stay for an extended period you see how trustworthy the Spanish are esp. in bars some really have no concerns despite the odd shocker!

Indeed. You are so right. The fault is not on the Spanish side, IMHO it is on the visitor side: No respect for an ancient culture, long before Columbus; only demands and selfishness.

I am on the Spanish side of the equation.

Edit: And pay extra for your beer, etc. If you cannot live with the Spanish cost of living; stay home. (And pay more).

 

[MaxHelado]

We know little about the circumstances of the overcharging or perhaps undercharging. The OP was unable to find any explanation because of a language barrier.

What we do know is that the bar has been named and shamed. Let’s hope that was deserved.

 

[Vacajoe]

I heard that at this wedding once, the local celebrity turned the water into wine for free, but he didn’t do that for everyone at every bar….

 

[Pelegrin]

In the past was assumed by everybody that tourists paid more than Spanish in bars, but I think that is not the norm now, unless in the coast and cities in general . I put on google " turistas pagan mas en los bares que los españoles" and only found a site about San Sebastian in 2019 that says that. Maybe the Camino is different because goes on the rural.

 

[Bogong]

I just feel when I go to the South, which for me starts in Cheshire I am being robbed all the time. A pint in my local is £3.50 ;-)

The practice can happen anywhere. We eere ripped off by a taxi driver in Rome and he did it so well that we actually admired and laughed at the experience. However the worst is when cheating is institutionalised and becomes accepted as the norm. In USA I had meals in restaurants, noted the price and after sometimes atrocious food and indifferent service was routinely expected to tip 15%. On one occasion having a meal with a European delegate to a conference I attended, hecwas so pleased that he offered what would have been a generous tip in the country he came from of 10%. The waiter, eho wss very polite but a little perturbed asked Him what was wrong with the meal.

De Colores

Bogong

 

[TravellingMan22]

The practice can happen anywhere. We eere ripped off by a taxi driver in Rome and he did it so well that we actually admired and laughed at the experience. However the worst is when cheating is institutionalised and becomes accepted as the norm. In USA I had meals in restaurants, noted the price and after sometimes atrocious food and indifferent service was routinely expected to tip 15%. On one occasion having a meal with a European delegate to a conference I attended, hecwas so pleased that he offered what would have been a generous tip in the country he came from of 10%. The waiter, eho wss very polite but a little perturbed asked Him what was wrong with the meal.

De Colores

Bogong

It’s a lot higher than 15% now. Suggested gratuity tends to 18, 20 or 25% I think or sometimes 20/22/25. It’s a cultural thing though so I wouldn’t file it under ‘rip off’. Americans seem largely accepting of it, on the surface anyway, though it shocks Europeans. There seems to be a lot of media coverage about it in USA,especially because even takeaway services, like coffee, are requesting gratuities! You can choose not to pay but it won’t be pleasant!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Americans seem largely accepting of it, on the surface anyway, though it shocks Europeans.

I think it is more accepted by Americans because the wages of our wait staff are lower than the European counterparts.

 

[Bogong]

I think it is more accepted by Americans because the wages of our wait staff are lower than the European counterparts.

It would surely be better and more appropriate to pay decent wages?

 

[Camino Chrissy]

It would surely be better and more appropriate to pay decent wages?

Absolutely, I agree, but until that would ever happen, I accept what it is, and tip accordingly.

 

[dick bird]

Asking the price of a coffee or a drink before ordering seems to me rather petty. It is also offensive to the staff as it suggests you don’t trust them and it is taking up the time of hard working and highly skilled people. Food invariably has a price displayed.

 

[Pafayac]

It's not cheating. A few countries and cities have higher prices for tourists than the locals and I see nothing wrong with that.

EU rules state that the prices should be displayed, in order that anybody can know the maximum amount that could be charged.
But it is not forbidden to allow discounts.

 

[Kathar1na]

EU rules state that the prices should be displayed, in order that anybody can know the maximum amount that could be charged. But it is not forbidden to allow discounts.

Well, EU or no EU, the law in Spain is apparently this one: Real Decreto 3423/2000, de 15 de diciembre, por el que se regula la indicación de los precios de los productos ofrecidos a los consumidores y usuarios. I did not bother to read it, though.

And despite 70+ comments in this thread and a similar number in another recent and related thread, this is still not clear: Are bars in Spain obliged to have a list of their prices on display somewhere in the bar? And are bars obliged to give you a receipt with details of what you purchased and paid for?

I mean without any of this how do you even know whether you overpaid or underpaid? Or that an unintentional error had been made? A general assumption in these threads appears to be that whenever you paid a higher price than someone else supposedly did you had been "cheated" and that the lower price is always the one and only true and official price.

 

[JCLima]

And despite 70+ comments in this thread and a similar number in another recent and related thread, this is still not clear: Are bars in Spain obliged to have a list of their prices on display somewhere in the bar? And are bars obliged to give you a receipt with details of what you purchased and paid for?

This will not answer the question about Spain (sorry) but in Portugal they have to have a list displaying their prices and they have to provide a receipt

That being said, usually I don't get one for something small like a coffee but that's because most people don't want it so the staff is used to not give it; but if I ask they have to provide me with that receipt.

Edit: I'm talking about Portugal because some caminos go through Portugal too so I thought it might be relevant

 

[Dani7]

Thank you to whoever changed the topic field to « miscellaneous topics » from « safety and security »

As a visitor to Spain, my goal is to blend in as much as I can despite the telltale backpack and shell . I would never ask the price for a coffee or smaller item and have no say or control over pricing for locals vs tourists/pilgrims. Would I feel « cheated » if I was charged more, I don’t know since I did not experience those feelings last year when I walked. I choose to not sweat the small stuff and for me, this falls into that category. For a restaurant meal the menus always had pricing and if it was not displayed I would ask. This comment is worth 2 cents

 

[Pafayac]

Well, EU or no EU,

("CEE" is the previous name for "EU")
Being part of EU, Spain apply the rules it states for trading.

Pricing, payments and price discrimination in the EU - Your Europe

You must be informed about the total price of goods and services you buy, including delivery charges. EU nationals/residents can't be charged a higher price just because of nationality or country of residence. Beware of ‘free’ services that collect more personal data than directly necessary.

europa.eu

 

[Kathar1na]

("CEE" is the previous name for "EU")
Being part of EU, Spain apply the rules it states for trading.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pricing-payments/index_en.htm

I am not sure what your point is? As anyone who clicks on the Spanish Royal Decree mentioned earlier can see it contains references to various EU directives about consumer law. And as we all know European law directives, in contrast to EU law regulations, are not direct applicable law in Spain. They need to be transposed into a Spanish law first. And then these Spanish laws apply to the bars and restaurants in Spain.

 

[Pafayac]

I am not sure what your point is?

"Price list in bars: Obligation by law

Know the obligation of bars to have a visible price list: rules, importance for consumers and penalties for non-compliance.

In Spain, the regulations applicable to the restaurant sector, including bars and restaurants, require the presentation of a price list to consumers. This list must be clear and placed in a visible place to inform customers about the cost of the services offered before they place their order. The General Directorate of Tourism of each autonomous community ensures compliance with this requirement, playing a key role in guaranteeing transparency and quality service in the hospitality industry."

Lista de precios en bares: Obligación por ley

Conoce la obligación de bares de tener una lista de precios visible: normas, importancia para consumidores y sanciones por incumplimiento.

www.qamarero.com

​

 

[davejsy]

This comment is worth 2 cents

Is that before or after the "forum local's" discount?

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

Habla Español? It is likely the trigger for this action.

 

[bullingtonce]

I am on CF right now and just stopped in Os Arroxos Crispeta bar in Trabadelo.
A Spanish pilgrim had exactly the same order as me and he paid 6.50 euro and I was charged 10.00 euro!!! It is not first time on Camino that I've experienced that and people should know which places will cheat you because you are not local.
It is a shame that this is happening.
Buen Camino

There is nothing wrong with this; it goes on all over the world as it should. Many of the locals would not, as you, be able to make such a trip as this, especially those in the country. Plus, the behavior of many entitled, rude, and inconsiderate tourists, at times, is absolutely horrendous. This is why you see the flood of anti-tourist and anti-cruise ships around the world. This movement is growing. How would feel if you were a struggling rural farmer seeing your land trashed, pooped upon/leaving it as is, fruit picked at liberty even from trees not bordering a pilgrim pathway, etc. it is a wonder that so many places and locals put up with tourists as well as they do. I am not criticizing or piling on you; I am merely saying there is another side to the coin, a significant other side. Chuck

 

[Lindsay from Scotland]

This sort of thing happens all over the world, is it right, I have no opinion either way. Lets be honest it's not expensive to walk the camino, enjoy the accommodation and food and enjoy.

I agree, it’s the way of the world, just relax and let it go!

 

[WGroleau]

Apologies if someone already said this in this LONG thread. …

Unless the law has changed since my time in Spain, every business is required to have “hojas de reclamación” (complaint forms). I was told they are in triplicate, one for the customer, one for the business, and one for the government. I was also told they are numbered, and a government official might come unannounced to check and make trouble if any numbers are missing. And finally, that they are required to post a notice that the forms are available. I was not told whether the law applies to a non-profit albergue, but we did post the notice of availability. (But I never saw the actual “hojas” book, though we did have a feedback book in the lounge that pilgrims often wrote in.)

Oh, someone also told me that if you ask for an hoja de reclamación, the staff is likely to panic and desperately try to placate you!

I just did a quick web search, and if this page is correct and current, it appears that I was told correctly!

By the way, it’s been mentioned more than once in this forum that when using a charge card, you should pay in euro to avoid unfair exchange rates. If ever someone tries to prevent this or persuade you not to, I suggest you calmly ask for this book.

 

[JCarpenter]

I think it is more accepted by Americans because the wages of our wait staff are lower than the European counterparts.

If I ran an albergue on the Ozark Highlands Trail (which I very well may in the future) I would charge the locals less.

 

[Lurch]

I am on CF right now and just stopped in Os Arroxos Crispeta bar in Trabadelo.
A Spanish pilgrim had exactly the same order as me and he paid 6.50 euro and I was charged 10.00 euro!!! It is not first time on Camino that I've experienced that and people should know which places will cheat you because you are not local.
It is a shame that this is happening.
Buen Camino

Why not ask the waiter why the difference. Answer would probably be “it was a mistake”, whether it was or not.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

It happens everywhere. You undoubtedly get certain benefits in your own local pubs and restaurants that tourists don’t receive.

No discounts for locals in hospitality services in my neck of the woods. Perhaps if you were a regular customer for some sort of business supplies you might get a discount.
I wonder if it is technically Ok to give a discount from the listed price to a regular? What would definitely be illegal is to charge a different customer more.

every business is required to have “hojas de reclamación” (complaint forms

I have seen these. Good to remember.

 

[OK20090]

If a local gets a discount on the price on the price list, thats fine by me, so long as I do not pay more than is on the price list. One is a discount, the other is dishonest.

I like your comment and agree. I have no problems with locals getting a discount. They put up with us pilgrims !

 

[NYSE]

Sure, this happens sometimes.
But why get hot under the collar when a local gets a discount? It's not cheating, it's preferential treatment because you're perceived as the tourist and he's not. You'll be much happier when you let it go.

Letting it go doesn't make it right.

 

[Lozette]

Yes, I started the other thread.
I think a possible solution to this, is to ask to see the price list, which I suspect they have by Law to display. Obviously looking before is the best idea, however in the situation you found yourself in, it could be a solution.
It would be helpful if someone could give the Spanish for asking to see this Tariff.
Google reviews is another course of action. People in tourist places used to think that they can rip tourists off because they will never see them again, but Google reviews changes this.

Google translate is very useful. Set it up with the required language beforehand. You can scan written notices/ menus etc and even use the spoken translator.

 

[VNwalking]

Letting it go doesn't make it right.

Of course not.
But hanging on to anger about something out of your control has no affect on the person doing these things, and a toxic affect on oneself.

 

[Joan O.]

Fascinated by this thread (and by similar threads, which for some reason or other take on a life of their own). This one going to make the #100 soon - doing my bit here !
It has become a commentary/opinion piece on social justice, nationalism, money, politics, the EU, the Camino, the nature of cheating, tourism, witty repartee, rural living, etc etc etc.
Love the people on this forum (including the moderators!). A shout out to y’all. .

 

[Walkalong]

I've never been over charged for anything while walking a Camino. We've occasionally checked the bill to make sure were had paid enough.

When leaving a celebratory dinners after walking with students on break from Germany and Belgium and others from Brazil, Canada, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, ....., a Peregrino tuned to me and said

"Let's face it. It's a cheap holiday. Now come on Mary, before we're late for Mass."

 

[CWBuff]

Ok..so...my couple of pennies.
1. The practice itself is well known. It was almost a given in former USSR republics (now independent countries) to have 2 menus- one in Russian and one in any "western" foreign language. The former was always cheaper ( and for all I know a menu in 'local' language- i.e. Kazakh in Kazakhstan, Belarusian in Belarus and so on - could have been even more cheaper)
2. If a menu for the item states 10€ and you paid that but someone else paid say 6€ - that's a discount.
If you paid ANYTHING over the 10 then I don't care what the other person paid- that smacks of cheating

That said I only had once the feeling that I was cheated. For better or worse I felt that female bar keepers were more honest or should I say felt more trustworthy.

I completely agree with @Zoran K that it's a principle matter. Yes we can all shake it off and chalk it up to being on a cheap holiday and the Camino and let it go and so forth...
Doesn't mean that it somehow does not leave a bad taste in my mouth

 

[Shazenalan]

Sure, this happens sometimes.
But why get hot under the collar when a local gets a discount? It's not cheating, it's preferential treatment because you're perceived as the tourist and he's not. You'll be much happier when you let it go

I am on CF right now and just stopped in Os Arroxos Crispeta bar in Trabadelo.
A Spanish pilgrim had exactly the same order as me and he paid 6.50 euro and I was charged 10.00 euro!!! It is not first time on Camino that I've experienced that and people should know which places will cheat you because you are not local.
It is a shame that this is happening.
Buen Camino

Rather than cheating - I always saw this as bars and cafes looking after locals who are, after all, their year round trade - long after the pilgrims are gone. I like that - so many towns and villages clearly struggle to survive - we take - we should be prepared also to give.