20 meters walked - but which route?

[Shazenalan]

I have walked the CF twice - but this year I’m touring Europe in a Campervan. I was very surprised and delighted to see a brass Camino shell in the pavement in Saint Quentin in Ardennes, France - and am curious which route I walked for…20-30 metres? Could it be the Via Francigena?

 

[Kathar1na]

I have walked the CF twice - but this year I’m touring Europe in a Campervan. I was very surprised and delighted to see a brass Camino shell in the pavement in Saint Quentin in Ardennes, France - and am curious which route I walked for…20-30 metres? Could it be the Via Francigena?

Hi @Shazenalan! Without checking maps: I think that a Way of Saint James and a Way from Canterbury to Rome cross path in Saint-Quentin in the northern parts of France. When I stayed in Saint-Quentin on the way to Santiago many years ago, I happened to encounter a long-distance cyclist from England who was on the way to Rome.

PS: I edited this comment to correct a typing error and change "Saintiago" to "Santiago". I quite like the misspelling "Saintiago" though.

 

[davejsy]

I have no idea, but I'm jealous of your trip!

 

[jungleboy]

I have walked the CF twice - but this year I’m touring Europe in a Campervan. I was very surprised and delighted to see a brass Camino shell in the pavement in Saint Quentin in Ardennes, France - and am curious which route I walked for…20-30 metres? Could it be the Via Francigena?

I wouldn’t expect a shell to be used for the Via Francigena but I haven’t walked it, so I don’t know for sure.

 

[markie6]

vezelay perhaps IIRC is somewhere near Reims and the Ardennes Forest ?

check the via Campaniensis also close by

 

[Tassie Kaz]

I have walked the CF twice - but this year I’m touring Europe in a Campervan. I was very surprised and delighted to see a brass Camino shell in the pavement in Saint Quentin in Ardennes, France - and am curious which route I walked for…20-30 metres? Could it be the Via Francigena?

I wouldn’t expect a shell to be used for the Via Francigena but I haven’t walked it, so I don’t know for sure.

It is possible you were on the VF, or a variant of it, as there is no hard & fast set route. Did you see any other markers maybe not so recognisable to you?
Here are some photos I took in France on my VF (London to Rome) in 2019.
The first shows I was in the locale & the second shows Camino markers used in conjunction with VF & other trail signage.

Edited to add; I'm often surprised & delighted to find our much loved shell symbol in unexpected places, especially when I'm nowhere near a Camino path...it's brings a sense of instant connection.

 

[Kathar1na]

I wouldn’t expect a shell to be used for the Via Francigena

Indeed. The path that is marked by shells in Saint-Quentin is part of the network of Saint James Ways in France.

It is called the “Chemin Estelle” (“Star Way”) and it is maintained by the local association of the Amis de Saint Jacques de Compostelle. It goes from Saint-Quentin to Paris where it joins the voie de Paris / voie de Tours, i.e. Saint-Quentin -> Paris -> Tours -> Bordeaux -> Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port.

 

[Barbara06]

A camino shell is always a St James Way (Camino de Santiago). The Via Francigena never uses camino shells.
Of course in some rare cases the 2 paths may cross but for sure you where on a St James Way.

 

[Vacajoe]

Regardless of path, did you get two stamps? Did you carry your own bag? Pickup your toilet paper? Book ahead? Reconfirm day if? Stop for second breakfast? Decide to post half your bag to Santiago? Sent the other half back home? Make lifelong friends? Suffer from blisters? Encounter bedbugs?

I know it’s a lot for such a short Camino, but just verifying that you qualify as a “real” pilgrim!

 

[timr]

Echoing what others said really,

There are several places on the VF which are crossed by various routes which lead eventually to Santiago.
Chalons-en Champagne and Reims are two important ones, but there are others too. And in these two places there are very enthusiastic local volunteers, keen to help with accommodation there and onward.

Without entering into contentious territory over what is or is not on the "official" route in France, it is fair to say that there is quite a lot of variation during the French stretch, often because of the relative scarcity of infrastructure in some parts.

On my own VF I certainly came through St Quentin and stayed a night there - in the second most memorably poor hotel between Canterbury and Brindisi, but I will refrain from naming it. Not least because they were hugely friendly, as they were in the other one which gets my first place!

 

[Shazenalan]

Regardless of path, did you get two stamps? Did you carry your own bag? Pickup your toilet paper? Book ahead? Reconfirm day if? Stop for second breakfast? Decide to post half your bag to Santiago? Sent the other half back home? Make lifelong friends? Suffer from blisters? Encounter bedbugs?

I know it’s a lot for such a short Camino, but just verifying that you qualify as a “real”

……nope but yesterday I did spot someone with a rucksack and resisted running after them to ask…

 

[Shazenalan]

Indeed. The path that is marked by shells in Saint-Quentin is part of the network of Saint James Ways in France.

It is called the “Chemin Estelle” (“Star Way”) and it is maintained by the local association of the Amis de Saint Jacques de Compostelle. It goes from Saint-Quentin to Paris where it joins the voie de Paris / voie de Tours, i.e. Saint-Quentin -> Paris -> Tours -> Bordeaux -> Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port.

View attachment 174442

Thank you so much - it’s great to know that I was there.

 

[Shazenalan]

It is possible you were on the VF, or a variant of it, as there is no hard & fast set route. Did you see any other markers maybe not so recognisable to you?
Here are some photos I took in France on my VF (London to Rome) in 2019.
The first shows I was in the locale & the second shows Camino markers used in conjunction with VF & other trail signage.
View attachment 174440 View attachment 174441
Edited to add; I'm often surprised & delighted to find our much loved shell symbol in unexpected places, especially when I'm nowhere near a Camino path...it's brings a sense of instant connection.

Great pictures and I will look out for other markers today. You are so right about ‘instant connection’ and I didn’t have to think twice about posting my question here -

 

[Corned Beef]

The Via Francigena never uses camino shells.

Strange. I'm just back from the VF in Switzerland and Italy (Aosta valley). I passed a wooden statue a few days ago of a pilgrim with the cloak, staff, gourd and shell. Perhaps it is a modern interpretation. [Pic added]

The Piazza del Campo in Siena on the VF is shell shaped. The fountain there have shell shapes but again it's down to interpretation.

 

[Shazenalan]

Ahh interesting that the icon is used differently. And a shell shaped Piazza - wow!

 

[Kathar1na]

Strange

Not every shell is a Camino shell. And already since about the end of the Middle Ages, in paintings and statues, not every pilgrim or saint carrying a shell on his clothes was a pilgrim with the aim of walking to Santiago. The most prominent example is Saint Roch. The many shell symbols in Baroque art have nothing to do with Saint James.

I do think that what others have said is correct: As a contemporary symbol for officially marking contemporary pilgrimage paths, the shell is used for marking paths attributed to Santiago (town and/or saint) and different logos and symbols are used for the contemporary via Francigena.

 

[Corned Beef]

Agree it's down to a question of contemporary use and the semiotics of pilgrim signage. Wonder when it will escalate to an intellectual property dispute between the various associations.

 

[Kathar1na]

The two different symbols for the two pilgrimage routes on a church in a town near Saint-Quentin in France:

 

[Shazenalan]

Not every shell is a Camino shell. And already since about the end of the Middle Ages, in paintings and statues, not every pilgrim or saint carrying a shell on his clothes was a pilgrim with the aim of walking to Santiago. The most prominent example is Saint Roch. The many shell symbols in Baroque art have nothing to do with Saint James.

I do think that what others have said is correct: As a contemporary symbol for officially marking contemporary pilgrimage paths, the shell is used for marking paths attributed to Santiago (town and/or saint) and different logos and symbols are used for the contemporary via Francigena.

I have visited a lot of Baroque Cathedrals throughout our current Europe trip and certainly my eye has found shells embedded in the symbolism.

The two different symbols for the two pilgrimage routes on a church in a town near Saint-Quentin in France:

View attachment 174491

This is really interesting - I visited the cathedral but the front is undergoing renovation so not easy to wander around. Here is a photo of the shell I saw in the pavement and the view it pointed towards / you may recognise it?

 

[Camino Chrissy]

The Piazza del Campo in Siena on the VF is shell shaped. The fountain there have shell shapes but again it's down to interpretation.

I recalled that you mentioned these particular shells to me when I walked the Via Francigena and climbed the tower in Siena. I appreciated all the tips you gave me along the way.

 

[Kathar1na]

This is really interesting - I visited the cathedral but the front is undergoing renovation so not easy to wander around. Here is a photo of the shell I saw in the pavement and the view it pointed towards / you may recognise it?

I don't remember this view but it was easy to figure out that it is very close to the Cathedral of Saint-Quentin and to the Ibis opposite where I had stayed.

And I finally found a reasonable map that shows the presumably "official" trails of both the Via Francigena and the Chemin Estelle/Camino to Santiago going through Saint-Quentin. Comparing it with Google Earth, it confirms my guess that you walked on a Way of Saint James. But you were very very close to the Via Francigena.

More seriously: When I walked, these two trails had not yet been waymarked. No matter how you walk through a town or city on the European continent, you are practically always on a road to or from Santiago and to or from Rome.

Legend:
Red line: Eurovelo Route #3
Blue line with white dots and blue-yellow shell symbol: GR Saint-Jacques de Compostelle
Brown line with yellow dots: GR Via Francigena
(Click to enlarge)

 

[Shazenalan]

Regardless of path, did you get two stamps? Did you carry your own bag? Pickup your toilet paper? Book ahead? Reconfirm day if? Stop for second breakfast? Decide to post half your bag to Santiago? Sent the other half back home? Make lifelong friends? Suffer from blisters? Encounter bedbugs?

I know it’s a lot for such a short Camino, but just verifying that you qualify as a “real” pilgrim!

This made me laugh out loud - for sure the one similarity between my Caminos and my Campervan trip is not remembering the name of the last town I stayed at -

 

[Shazenalan]

I don't remember this view but it was easy to figure out that it is very close to the Cathedral of Saint-Quentin and to the Ibis opposite where I had stayed.

And I finally found a reasonable map that shows the presumably "official" trails of both the Via Francigena and the Chemin Estelle/Camino to Santiago going through Saint-Quentin. Comparing it with Google Earth, it confirms my guess that you walked on a Way of Saint James. But you were very very close to the Via Francigena.

More seriously: When I walked, these two trails had not yet been waymarked. No matter how you walk through a town or city on the European continent, you are practically always on a road to or from Santiago and to or from Rome.

Legend:
Red line: Eurovelo Route #3
Blue line with white dots and blue-yellow shell symbol: GR Saint-Jacques de Compostelle
Brown line with yellow dots: GR Via Francigena
(Click to enlarge)
View attachment 174607

I replied earlier but it seems to have got lost - thank you SO much for taking the time to compile this - another Camino gift.

 

[Corned Beef]

Found this while rearranging some pics. No doubt about this route outside Chartres cathedral.

 

[Shazenalan]

I have walked the CF twice - but this year I’m touring Europe in a Campervan. I was very surprised and delighted to see a brass Camino shell in the pavement in Saint Quentin in Ardennes, France - and am curious which route I walked for…20-30 metres? Could it be the Via Francigena?

…… and….. today I walked near Amiens Cathedral and found this…? It was under some cafe tables…. So not regularly walked I imagine. And…. I did at least 10k today.