OBSOLETE COVID THREAD Four cases from the Camino

[peregrina2000]

La Vanguardia reports on new cases of covid in Catalunya. They include four who have just returned from the camino. The article does not say which camino. Not surprising, but surely not welcome news.

La Generalitat de Cataluña confirma nuevos brotes de cuatro personas tras al volver del Camino de Santiago

www.google.com

 

[Sean Lad]

stay safe
stay away

 

[Rebekah Scott]

this article is so vague it is practically useless. Irresponsible journalism at its worst.

 

[trecile]

A campground in Zarautz on the Norte is under quarantine after two campers tested positive.

Spanish Campsite Quarantined Due to Detection of Covid-19

ACCORDING to sources in the UK media, a campsite in Zarautz in the Spanish Basque Country has gone into lockdown following the discovery of two holidaymakers who tested positive for coronavirus Covid…

www.euroweeklynews.com

 

[amancio]

this article is so vague it is practically useless. Irresponsible journalism at its worst.

The different Spanish local, regional and national governments are not particularly transparent in declaring the source of spikes, as you must have noticed by now. We have quite a few spikes and outbreaks and, surprisingly, NONE of them are happening in the coastal areas where tourism is the main industry. I find it hard to believe, somehow. However sorry we may be about it, and however eager we may be to bring back business to the Camino, this does not really seem to be the year, I am afraid.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

A campground in Zarautz on the Norte is under quarantine after two campers tested positive.

Spanish Campsite Quarantined Due to Detection of Covid-19

ACCORDING to sources in the UK media, a campsite in Zarautz in the Spanish Basque Country has gone into lockdown following the discovery of two holidaymakers who tested positive for coronavirus Covid…

www.euroweeklynews.com

Bummer, and we've been thinking camping was a great alternative, although we do not know what these campers are doing (responsibly or not) during the daytime hours.

 

[Luciano Sanguini]

The situation is still not in control.

 

[Isca-camigo]

My friends who are meeting up in Ribadeo today are talking on this topic on our Watts app group, they have two potential difficulties ahead , Betanzos and Villaba are edging to further restrictions,that would effectively block of the Camino do Mar and the Norte for them. It's hard to say what to do, they are Spanish so it is their country, but it feels like they are racing the storm clouds now, one of Camigos left Barcelona at 1345pm yesterday in his hire car just as they were announcing restrictions on movements.
A safe and good Camino to all pilgrims out there.

 

[Bristle Boy]

We are all as strong as the weakest link.
The nationality of those on a camino are an irrelevance. The fact they are Spanish and in Spain any more than they be English on an English Camino is not important.
The virus is a respiratory virus and by nature more virulent in winter.
I hope that the message doesn't come from the virus itself. "The chance was there and you didn't take it. You could have practiced and you didn't. Here is a chance to get it right a second time".
I hope I am very wrong.

 

[David Pettee]

We are all as strong as the weakest link.
The nationality of those on a camino are an irrelevance. The fact they are Spanish and in Spain any more than they be English on an English Camino is not important.
The virus is a respiratory virus and by nature more virulent in winter.
I hope that the message doesn't come from the virus itself. "The chance was there and you didn't take it. You could have practiced and you didn't. Here is a chance to get it right a second time".
I hope I am very wrong.

The virus is a respiratory virus and by nature more virulent in winter? It's blowing through the USA in the heat of the summer when many felt confident it would die out in the heat. Not sure it can get much worse in winter.

 

[Bristle Boy]

The virus is a respiratory virus and by nature more virulent in winter? It's blowing through the USA in the heat of the summer when many felt confident it would die out in the heat. Not sure it can get much worse in winter.

Yep.

 

[VNwalking]

it feels like they are racing the storm clouds now, one of Camigos left Barcelona at 1345pm yesterday in his hire car just as they were announcing restrictions on movements.

Europe may be in the space between waves, or maybe this is already the beginning of a second wave? That sounds eerily like what we were hearing in the Spring before everything shut in a hurry. I hope I am wrong.

A little off topic but just to clarify~

The virus is a respiratory virus and by nature more virulent in winter?

It appears to be a multi-organ system virus that cares more about whether its hosts cluster together or not than about how hot it is.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

We still have much to learn about this very sneaky, tricky virus... I wonder if scientists will ever fully get a grasp on it.

 

[lt56ny]

The virus is a respiratory virus and by nature more virulent in winter? It's blowing through the USA in the heat of the summer when many felt confident it would die out in the heat. Not sure it can get much worse in winter.

Why it could be worse in winter is because we are indoors more and the virus travels much better indoors than outside. More people are coughing and sneezing in winter that gives the virus the ability to spread even further and more frequently especially in a Covid asymptomatic carrier. Finally with the onset of flu season you have the double whammy of the seasonal flu and Covid infecting someone at the same time. WIth your immune system compromised by the flu and then add Covid on to it the possibility of a more serious reaction with long term health implications or death, especially in older Americans (and who knows how this equation may change when a person may have both virus simultaneously) will, of course be greater. This is not to mention how many people in the United States who have multiple morbidities and are now furloughed and/or on unemployment see their benefits expire or necessitate them taking a job that puts them in danger can and will produce more virus and deaths. Couple this with the fact that so many "essential" workers in our country have inadequate, at best, or more likely no health insurance will not seek treatment adding to death tolls and the spread. Finally how long can hospitals and their staffs continue to work at this level of intensity and not see major breakdowns in our already delicate health care system. I wish you were right but it certainly can and unfortunately may get much worse this winter. Stay safe. P.S. There was very little consensus early on that the virus would die out in the heat among virologists and immunologists. Some said that it may be possible, but there was always the caveat that it was too soon to know and that they knew way to little about the virus. It was and still is a very new virus and there is so much that is still not known. It was politicians and some media outlets that mostly peddled this narrative.

 

[nycwalking]

The virus is a respiratory virus and by nature more virulent in winter? It's blowing through the USA in the heat of the summer when many felt confident it would die out in the heat. Not sure it can get much worse in winter.

Texas and Arizona are requesting refrigerated trucks for bodies; morgues are filling up.

Sad!

 

[trecile]

The virus is a respiratory virus and by nature more virulent in winter? It's blowing through the USA in the heat of the summer

It appears to be a multi-organ system virus that cares more about whether its hosts cluster together or not than about how hot it is.

Many places in the US with the highest cases are very hot right now, which sends people indoors into air conditioned environments.

 

[Bristle Boy]

Many places in the US with the highest cases are very hot right now, which sends people indoors into air conditioned environments.

I wasnt suggesting that it couldn't transmit during the summer months. Most respiratory viral infections are more serious and active in Winter. Time will tell on this one. It hasn't disappeared either...hopefully the actions taken this year have suppressed it but we are still only as strong as the weakest link and for life to be able to return to normal the observance of safety measures should be maintained. Sadly, the images I am seeing from my country is not providing confidence.
The majority are thankfully.

 

[El Cascayal]

I live in Miami we have record heat and humidity. Everyone lives indoors with the AC just like colder climates do in the winter. Miami-Dade is currently the Covid US epicenter. I am a Pulmonary/Critical care physician doing Palliative. Our hospitals and ICUs are filled to the rafters and we have shortages of everything including health workers. More cases daily. Overwhelming chaos. Everyday brings new information and more experience. Stay home. Your safety and that of others is the responsibility of each person. Wait until there is an effective vaccine.

 

[trecile]

I live in Miami we have record heat and humidity. Everyone lives indoors with the AC just like colder climates do in the winter. Miami-Dade is currently the Covid US epicenter. I am a Pulmonary/Critical care physician doing Palliative. Our hospitals and ICUs are filled to the rafters and we have shortages of everything including health workers. More cases daily. Overwhelming chaos. Everyday brings new information and more experience. Stay home. Your safety and that of others is the responsibility of each person. Wait until there is an effective vaccine.

Thank you for the important work that you are doing.

 

[Morning Waters]

I am a Nurse-Midwife trying to take care of the age group (18-40) that seems to be spreading this virus the most with "Covid parties" and refusals to wear masks and social distance "because Covid is a hoax and I wont be told what to do". I had a patient refuse to wear a mask at her office appointment last week as our Covid numbers soared, despite multiple requests to do so and it being the law in California. She wrote me up because I was curtly polite to her at that visit. I am working really hard to stay healthy so I CAN take care of Covid Karen and Kens like her. But... I have no children, my husband died this past March from cancer, so if I get sick I am truly alone. And unfortunately, I do not have a choice about taking care of her or anyone else who thinks they can be irresponsible regarding this. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help us take care of you!!! ( Well I do have a choice, but it would require quitting my job and losing my healthcare, so sort of a choice )

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I am a Nurse-Midwife trying to take care of the age group (18-40) that seems to be spreading this virus the most with "Covid parties" and refusals to wear masks and social distance "because Covid is a hoax". I had a patient refuse to wear a mask at her last office appointment last week as our numbers soared, despite multiple requests to do so and it being the law in California. She wrote me up because I was curtly polite to her at that visit. I am working really hard to stay healthy so I CAN take care of Covid Karens like her. But... I have no children, my husband died this past March from cancer, so if I get sick I am truly alone. And unfortunately, I do not have a choice about taking care of her or anyone else who thinks they can be irresponsible regarding this. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help us take care of you!!!

Thank you for all you are doing in the community where you live.

 

[Bristle Boy]

I am a Nurse-Midwife trying to take care of the age group (18-40) that seems to be spreading this virus the most with "Covid parties" and refusals to wear masks and social distance "because Covid is a hoax". I had a patient refuse to wear a mask at her last office appointment last week as our numbers soared, despite multiple requests to do so and it being the law in California. She wrote me up because I was curtly polite to her at that visit. I am working really hard to stay healthy so I CAN take care of Covid Karens like her. But... I have no children, my husband died this past March from cancer, so if I get sick I am truly alone. And unfortunately, I do not have a choice about taking care of her or anyone else who thinks they can be irresponsible regarding this. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help us take care of you!!!

Well said.

 

[Isca-camigo]

The nationality of those on a camino are an irrelevance. The fact they are Spanish and in Spain any more than they be English on an English Camino is not important.

On the surface that sounds like very sound advice, but Spain has taken the necessary steps for its rate to come down to a very low level, the UK hasn't yet and the same for some other countries, so for a Spanish local to see foreign nationals walking through their villages will be more unsettling than Spanish people walking through, and rightly so.

 

[KinkyOne]

Right now I'm watching quite long documentary about Via de la Plata (

, on 10' approx.) and close to Sevilla in the Roman town of Italica there was an amphitheater build for 25.000 spectators while the town itself had "only" 8.000 inhabitants. Obviously they knew about social distancing measures long before 2020

 

[Bristle Boy]

On the surface that sounds like very sound advice, but Spain has taken the necessary steps for its rate to come down to a very low level, the UK hasn't yet and the same for some other countries, so for a Spanish local to see foreign nationals walking through their villages will be more unsettling than Spanish people walking through, and rightly so.

I couldn't agree with you more. Any new case is of someone infected and has the potential to infect. This is not going away and, in tbe absence of immunisation, is incumbent on us for vigilance in adhering to measures that inhibit it.
Your point illustrates why I would have no intention of being in Spain (or any other country) this year.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Obviously they knew about social distancing measures long before 2020

I'm sure they measured the seats at a safe 2 meter distance apart, but I think they were really trying to "pack the visitors in"...it's always about the almighty coin.

 

[Crosscheck]

I am a Nurse-Midwife trying to take care of the age group (18-40) that seems to be spreading this virus the most with "Covid parties" and refusals to wear masks and social distance "because Covid is a hoax". I had a patient refuse to wear a mask at her last office appointment last week as our numbers soared, despite multiple requests to do so and it being the law in California. She wrote me up because I was curtly polite to her at that visit. I am working really hard to stay healthy so I CAN take care of Covid Karens like her. But... I have no children, my husband died this past March from cancer, so if I get sick I am truly alone. And unfortunately, I do not have a choice about taking care of her or anyone else who thinks they can be irresponsible regarding this. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help us take care of you!!!

You are a hero to work in healthcare. You are risking your life to care for the irresponsible in California. I wish you good health and many future caminos. Caminos when it is actually safe.

 

[Pilgrim_95]

On the surface that sounds like very sound advice, but Spain has taken the necessary steps for its rate to come down to a very low level, the UK hasn't yet and the same for some other countries, so for a Spanish local to see foreign nationals walking through their villages will be more unsettling than Spanish people walking through, and rightly so.

Well, I saw friday (yesterday) night in Santander and having thousands of people in bars (with no masks) and thats not just young people, a lot of cafes and vine places were crowded by people over 60. I am not even talking about social distancing as its nonexistent. The city was absolutely crowded by predominantly Spanish people.

In villages we went through today, the locals sometimes dont even bother wearing it. In a bar in Mar none of the staff had a mask and in a tiny store in Requejada, the lady working there had no mask. That's just the reality.

Also, it always depends from which exact location you come, saying Brits will spread it is not a valid argument if you come from Highlands etc...

I dont mean it in a bad way yet a lots of news is just taken out of context. Yes, there are people who are scared of pilgrims, yet most people we saw welcomed us.

 

[Crosscheck]

Well, I saw friday (yesterday) night in Santander and having thousands of people in bars (with no masks) and thats not just young people, a lot of cafes and vine places were crowded by people over 60. I am not even talking about social distancing as its nonexistent. The city was absolutely crowded by predominantly Spanish people.

In villages we went through today, the locals sometimes dont even bother wearing it. In a bar in Mar none of the staff had a mask and in a tiny store in Requejada, the lady working there had no mask. That's just the reality.

Also, it always depends from which exact location you come, saying Brits will spread it is not a valid argument if you come from Highlands etc...

I dont mean it in a bad way yet a lots of news is just taken out of context. Yes, there are people who are scared of pilgrims, yet most people we saw welcomed us.

Interesting report on Santander. Doesn't sound good at all. The behavior you just observed is prolonging the disease, etc. All is needed is one person with covid, from wherever, walking into the situation your observed in Santander to have unfortunate results.

 

[Isca-camigo]

Also, it always depends from which exact location you come, saying Brits will spread it is not a valid argument if you come from Highlands etc

It's not my argument, its what I have seen posted on here from people living in Galicia on the CF, and also on Facebook. I could say the same of Devon where I live, about 3 places in the North of Scotland,the Scilly Isles, somewhere in Northern Ireland and another place in Wales have a lower rate than us, but that's it. It doesn't mean anything to locals in Spain fearing an influx of pilgrims of contaminated people, you could refer them to this thread.

 

[gittiharre]

La Vanguardia reports on new cases of covid in Catalunya. They include four who have just returned from the camino. The article does not say which camino. Not surprising, but surely not welcome news.

La Generalitat de Cataluña confirma nuevos brotes de cuatro personas tras al volver del Camino de Santiago

www.google.com

This has been my concern all along. Pilgrims are potential superspreaders.

 

[Morning Waters]

You are a hero to work in healthcare. You are risking your life to care for the irresponsible in California. I wish you good health and many future caminos. Caminos when it is actually safe.

Thank you so much. I am looking forward to another Camino when it is safe for all.

 

[nycwalking]

I live in Miami we have record heat and humidity. Everyone lives indoors with the AC just like colder climates do in the winter. Miami-Dade is currently the Covid US epicenter. I am a Pulmonary/Critical care physician doing Palliative. Our hospitals and ICUs are filled to the rafters and we have shortages of everything including health workers. More cases daily. Overwhelming chaos. Everyday brings new information and more experience. Stay home. Your safety and that of others is the responsibility of each person. Wait until there is an effective vaccine.

I am a Nurse-Midwife trying to take care of the age group (18-40) that seems to be spreading this virus the most with "Covid parties" and refusals to wear masks and social distance "because Covid is a hoax and I wont be told what to do". I had a patient refuse to wear a mask at her office appointment last week as our Covid numbers soared, despite multiple requests to do so and it being the law in California. She wrote me up because I was curtly polite to her at that visit. I am working really hard to stay healthy so I CAN take care of Covid Karen and Kens like her. But... I have no children, my husband died this past March from cancer, so if I get sick I am truly alone. And unfortunately, I do not have a choice about taking care of her or anyone else who thinks they can be irresponsible regarding this. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help us take care of you!!! ( Well I do have a choice, but it would require quitting my job and losing my healthcare, so sort of a choice )

Hey you two; be careful out there!

 

[domigee]

My head is spinning, I cannot take any more information about this virus

 

[ginniek]

Many places in the US with the highest cases are very hot right now, which sends people indoors into air conditioned environments.

Very true. Thanks to air conditioning some people literally brag about how many hours they spend indoors every day here in the Deep South. It's northern visitors who are out on the beaches.

 

[JillGat]

The virus is a respiratory virus and by nature more virulent in winter? It's blowing through the USA in the heat of the summer when many felt confident it would die out in the heat. Not sure it can get much worse in winter.

In winter, people are forced inside which will facilitate spread. Although it is spreading wildly during the summer, in the fall/winter flu will be added to the mix, straining Healthcare resources further. I think its gonna be a nightmare. I just hope they develop more effective treatments for those who become seriously ill with Covid.

 

[Martha Jansen]

So enjoyed watching the video of Trish yesterday in Santiago. Thank you Ivar for all that you are doing to keep us connected and informed. Almost made me wish we'd not canceled our trip, but Spain does not let USA citizens in anyway. And from what I read above pilgrims are picking up the virus on the trail. Must also say many thanks to those that responded so positively to my ramblings in "If Life Were Perfect..." yes, I am blessed with family, age, health and hopefully a future that will contain my third and maybe fourth Caminos in the future. God bless each of you out there.... Especially my good Scottish friend Hansel that I had the good fortune to meet on my 2018 Camino. Stay safe as you ride your bike towards Santiago on yet another Camino. Buen Camino

 

[alhartman]

Still missing the camino. Partly because I am trapped in nostalgia as I triage 15 years with 340 camino days: am attempting to leave some comprehensive story behind for posterity (grandkids). Not sure how I am going to present it, but ………………………………………

.. in doing this (and wishing for yet another walk), I took the Oregon Health Authority covid data (small, only 14,000 cases, and lots of questions about data and definitions), and created a table of disease severity by age using hospitalizations as my metric. The State uses 10 year brackets, but I am using the median (5 to 85)

Age Percentage Hospitalized
35 5
45 7
55 12
65 22
75 35
85 38

The severity curve is very steep at older ages- makes sense with all the co-morbidity we can develop over time. And no way to tease that out from the data.

I am pretty sure that my CaminoComorbidities of bed bug bites, blisters, shin splints, sunburn, near hypothermia, extreme fatigue and Achilles tears don't matter; BTW I miss them!

No real surprise with the data, just with my prior unwillingness to accept it for what it is. I need to stop hoping and planning for any trip before vaccine or good treatment and focus on my gratitude for so many past joys. And create some kind of Camino Story

With a 1 in 3 chance of hospitalization if I get infected, I am not willing to put my health in the hands of others, even kind Camino souls; too scary as I recall the unnecessary trailside trash, or the 5am albergue leavers.

Maybe wrap my head around 10km per day with taxis and baggage transport after 2022. Nah!!! I have been nurtured mostly by the long walking days.

For a while, the Camino is "No Country for Old Men"

....al

 

[Bristle Boy]

Well....a little better news which seems very promising. The breaking news tonight being that Oxford University has confirmed that a vaccination has been developed that has the ability of triggering an immune response to the coronavirus. Early stages...but there is confidence in passing this to the media.

BBC News - Coronavirus: Oxford vaccine triggers immune response

Coronavirus: Oxford vaccine triggers immune response

Study shows the vaccine is safe, but it is still too soon to know if it can stop people from being infected.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[grayland]

Texas and Arizona are requesting refrigerated trucks for bodies; morgues are filling up.

Sad!

I am not sure where this information may have come from...BUT I live in Arizona and there has been nothing like that in the news here or on the national media.

Some sources are to be taken lightly for these types of reports.
Arizona has had a spike in cases but the deaths have not been spiking. They have stayed even and declined.

Things are not good anywhere...but rumors do not help anything.

 

[Tincatinker]

[QUOTE="alhartman, post: 862496, member: 33470"For a while, the Camino is "No Country for Old Men"

....al
[/QUOTE]
For a while the Camino is everything we had, everything we need and everything we have.
Buen Camino amigo

 

[nycwalking]

I am not sure where this information may have come from...BUT I live in Arizona and there has been nothing like that in the news here or on the national media.

Some sources are to be taken lightly for these types of reports.
Arizona has had a spike in cases but the deaths have not been spiking. They have stayed even and declined.

Things are not good anywhere...but rumors do not help anything.

Saw this on BBC America.

 

[Kathor1]

And in other news, about the 4 people in Almoster in Catalonia who had come back from a Camino trip and were found to be infected, there is apparently no more news.

All I can find is this: that it is one of the smaller outbreaks (if I remember correctly, at least 3 or 4 infected people in one area are currently recorded in Spain as an outbreak) and that se están terminando de hacer pruebas para evitar que se extiendan. I understand this to mean that testing has been terminated and the situation is considered as under control, and I guess we will not learn any further details about this.

Source: https://www.diaridetarragona.com/eb...ios-con-brotes-de-Covid-19-20200720-0021.html

 

[Anamiri]

Why it could be worse in winter is because we are indoors more and the virus travels much better indoors than outside. More people are coughing and sneezing in winter that gives the virus the ability to spread even further and more frequently especially in a Covid asymptomatic carrier. Finally with the onset of flu season you have the double whammy of the seasonal flu and Covid infecting someone at the same time. WIth your immune system compromised by the flu and then add Covid on to it the possibility of a more serious reaction with long term health implications or death, especially in older Americans (and who knows how this equation may change when a person may have both virus simultaneously) will, of course be greater. This is not to mention how many people in the United States who have multiple morbidities and are now furloughed and/or on unemployment see their benefits expire or necessitate them taking a job that puts them in danger can and will produce more virus and deaths. Couple this with the fact that so many "essential" workers in our country have inadequate, at best, or more likely no health insurance will not seek treatment adding to death tolls and the spread. Finally how long can hospitals and their staffs continue to work at this level of intensity and not see major breakdowns in our already delicate health care system. I wish you were right but it certainly can and unfortunately may get much worse this winter. Stay safe. P.S. There was very little consensus early on that the virus would die out in the heat among virologists and immunologists. Some said that it may be possible, but there was always the caveat that it was too soon to know and that they knew way to little about the virus. It was and still is a very new virus and there is so much that is still not known. It was politicians and some media outlets that mostly peddled this narrative.

Interesting thing in New Zealand. Our initial lockdown (early and hard) with social distancing, knocked out the flu as well as Covid. Our flu vaccinations were delayed (lack of supply), but the flu numbers dropped as well. Although social distancing is difficult for people, it certainly wipes out virus transmission.

When Covid hit in NZ it was summer, and our numbers (until lockdown) climbed at a similar rate to Italy - we locked down early and it was successful. So I dont think the virus has an issue with heat.
We have no community transmission now and are free to live our lives as before, no masks, distancing or restricted numbers but we all know that eventually our borders will have to reopen. I am still cautious, and continue to limit visits and wash frequently. I still travel with hand sanitiser in the car.
But I know a lot of people have relaxed entirely, and that makes me a little nervous.

Most of our big clusters (other than rest homes) were linked to indoor social activity. Our biggest clusters were a wedding, an agricultural conference, several pub parties including a stag party and a school.
Apart from the school, what these events had in common was that they involved loud music where people have to get close to other people to be able to hear, sometimes having to shout. I figure alcohol doesn't help with clear thinking either, and people stop being careful.

I would love to think about a Camino, but at the moment I have put it further back in my mind, one of the things I love about the Camino is the social aspect, chatting and dining with others. Plus the idea of a long plane trip (17 hours followed by 8) freaks the hell out of me.

 

[C clearly]

I am not sure where this information may have come from...BUT I live in Arizona and there has been nothing like that in the news here or on the national media.

It has been reported in a number of places including this and this.

 

[David with new Kit!]

Local news in Spain is hard to find but I find this weblink for news in Galicia very helpful, depending on your browser the webpage translates into English.

if you choose to register you can pick your topics, I chose any COVID topics so that I know what’s happening locally. In my case I’m interested in the Camino Inglese and I can keep an eye on the local outbreak in Betanzos.

Todas las noticias sobre Galicia - EL CORREO GALLEGO

Descubre todas las noticias sobre Galicia, actualidad, última hora, novedades en EL CORREO GALLEGO

www.elcorreogallego.es

If you sign up for the daily email it can help with your Spanish too

 

[Luciano Sanguini]

We still have much to learn about this very sneaky, tricky virus... I wonder if scientists will ever fully get a grasp on it.

I agree, I guess that there is still a long journey until some solution.

 

[Greg Ludford]

Interesting thing in New Zealand. Our initial lockdown (early and hard) with social distancing, knocked out the flu as well as Covid. Our flu vaccinations were delayed (lack of supply), but the flu numbers dropped as well. Although social distancing is difficult for people, it certainly wipes out virus transmission.

When Covid hit in NZ it was summer, and our numbers (until lockdown) climbed at a similar rate to Italy - we locked down early and it was successful. So I dont think the virus has an issue with heat.
We have no community transmission now and are free to live our lives as before, no masks, distancing or restricted numbers but we all know that eventually our borders will have to reopen. I am still cautious, and continue to limit visits and wash frequently. I still travel with hand sanitiser in the car.
But I know a lot of people have relaxed entirely, and that makes me a little nervous.

Most of our big clusters (other than rest homes) were linked to indoor social activity. Our biggest clusters were a wedding, an agricultural conference, several pub parties including a stag party and a school.
Apart from the school, what these events had in common was that they involved loud music where people have to get close to other people to be able to hear, sometimes having to shout. I figure alcohol doesn't help with clear thinking either, and people stop being careful.

I would love to think about a Camino, but at the moment I have put it further back in my mind, one of the things I love about the Camino is the social aspect, chatting and dining with others. Plus the idea of a long plane trip (17 hours followed by 8) freaks the hell out of me.

Ditto here in Tasmania, Anamiri. No colds or flu around here this year either, the only real problem is being confined too close to the refrigerator. It seems to be shrinking all my clothes.
On a positive note I reckon it's actually giving the planet a chance for a breather. Got to be good without all those planes in the air for a while.
Also with you on the social aspect thing. Would be kind of wierd walking with a bunch of Lone Rangers.
We'll wait for an effective vaccine (when or if it appears?) before even considering another pilgimage & that plane ride (tho' not as long as yours). Meanwhile it's Google Earth and a glass of albarino, maybe a rioja, as I street view re-visit some of those wonderful Spanish towns.

 

[susanawee]

La Vanguardia reports on new cases of covid in Catalunya. They include four who have just returned from the camino. The article does not say which camino. Not surprising, but surely not welcome news.

La Generalitat de Cataluña confirma nuevos brotes de cuatro personas tras al volver del Camino de Santiago

www.google.com

Oh no...this news, of course, is NOT unexpected, but it is a risk taken all the same by those who have chosen to walk Whichever Camino at the present time. I would personally, dearly love to be having a nice slow walk along the Camino Frances once again but, will err on the side of safety and wait until there is more positive news that the virus has slowed or, in 'best case scenario' come to a halt. Wishing all those that are walking at present, safe travels and to stay healthy.....PLEASE follow all the CoVid Safety precautions, particularly when walking through the small villages and, please, please, please, wear a mask....protection for you and, most importantly, for those who live and work in these villages and towns.

 

[susanawee]

Texas and Arizona are requesting refrigerated trucks for bodies; morgues are filling up.

Sad!

This is an awful post to read....My prayers and thoughts are with those who live in all of the USA and particularly Texas and Arizona. Please take care and please follow the restrictions, particularly when you are out of your homes. Love and friendship.

 

[pelerine]

On a positive note I reckon it's actually giving the planet a chance for a breather. Got to be good without all those planes in the air for a while.

How about the amount of rubbish to be got rid of one way or another? Single use protective clothing and masks! People seem to prefer single use masks lots of which are thrown away any-old-where. Many more cars on the roads here in France because people avoid public transport. Remember the photos “before” and “after” of big cities all over the world? What will the “after” “after” photos be like?

 

[Bristle Boy]

How about the amount of rubbish to be got rid of one way or another? Single use protective clothing and masks! People seem to prefer single use masks lots of which are thrown away any-old-where. Many more cars on the roads here in France because people avoid public transport. Remember the photos “before” and “after” of big cities all over the world? What will the “after” “after” photos be like?

This has highlighted part of the problem. Used masks represent a potential hazard and should be disposed of responsibly.
As far as a camino is concerned the only thing you should leave behind are some footsteps and memories.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

People seem to prefer single use masks lots of which are thrown away any-old-where.

Yes, I've even seen a few castaway masks on my local trail in the town I live in...so disrespectful, both for the environment and potential contamination. I can only imagine how the camino will look within a year.

 

[grayland]

It has been reported in a number of places including this and this.

These reports are a good example of how some/much of what we hear in the media (all types) is often hyped and overblown. (I live in Arizona)

I did drill down into the story of Arizona needing refrigerated trucks. The original story comes from the instigation of a contingency plan to be prepared for a surge in deaths. The surge has not happened.
The Phoenix (Maricopa County) medical examiner in an abundance of caution had some refrigeration units on hand...just in case, after the problems in New York City. The county morgue is not full.

The stories are picked up by a media source and then repeated, sometimes with embellishments, by others until it becomes much bigger than it is.

 

[Bristle Boy]

These reports are a good example of how some/much of what we hear in the media (all types) is often hyped and overblown. (I live in Arizona)

I did drill down into the story of Arizona needing refrigerated trucks. The original story comes from the instigation of a contingency plan to be prepared for a surge in deaths. The surge has not happened.
The Phoenix (Maricopa County) medical examiner in an abundance of caution had some refrigeration units on hand....just in case, after the problems in New York City. The county morgue is not full.

The stories are picked up by a media source and then repeated, sometimes with embellishments, by others until it becomes much bigger than it is.

Sometimes a case of not letting the whole truth get in the way of a good story.
I know this is true....I read it on the internet.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

The stories are picked up by a media source and then repeated, sometimes with embellishments, by others until it becomes much bigger than it is.

Yes, and the articles from our trusted news sources all look so official, compelling and usually believable. Unfortunately I am often gullible...how can I/we decide which ones are completely factual from those stories embellished? I don't think it's really possible. Even eye witness accounts are often very different one from another, so don't know how the writing of a news article can necessarily hit the mark on the true facts.

 

[Isca-camigo]

Arizona has had a spike in cases but the deaths have not been spiking. They have stayed even and declined.

According to Worldometers Arizona's 7 day moving average for deaths on the 28th May was 12, it has steadily climbed since then and the 7 day moving average on the 20th July was 77 deaths.

 

[Crosscheck]

According to Worldometers Arizona's 7 day moving average for deaths on the 28th May was 12, it has steadily climbed since then and the 7 day moving average on the 20th July was 77 deaths.

Here in Northern California and our situation is also serious. I actually have a few friends and acquaintances here who discount the impact of the disease. Fortunately for me, on a daily basis I can hike and bike away from them and hope for the best.

 

[grayland]

"Most" of the positive cases in Arizona are in the Phoenix metro area which has a population of about 4.5 million. We see daily news reports here that are ever changing numbers due to faulty reporting by the various counties and reporting authorities.
Many days they do not receive reports from some sources and then they are reported later which boosts the numbers for the later dates...this results in a yoyo effect that makes it appear that there are sudden spikes and sudden drops.
There has been an upturn in deaths and cases since the end of May. The national media is much more vocal and alarming then the local media in Arizona. There is concern, of course, but nothing like the national reporting.

 

[Isca-camigo]

We get the yo yo effect in the UK, but over a period of time a pattern appears, some days have quite small totals then we get an alarming rise. It's not possible to really tell from the data that the general public get an exact picture of what is happening and when, that's why I look at rolling averages now, over a period of time you can see a trend.

 

[amancio]

Here in Northern California and our situation is also serious. I actually have a few friends and acquaintances here who discount the impact of the disease. Fortunately for me, on a daily basis I can hike and bike away from them and hope for the best.

I run away from people who keep churning and churning things they have overheard on TV

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I live on the camino, I spent the day in Astorga with other people who live and work with albergues and projects along the trail. We all wore our masks assiduously, at least until the food arrived!
Meantime, when we are outside in open air and away from others? Not so much, not unless people are working or walking in close quarters. Pilgrims aren't wearing masks while out on the trail, but in town and indoors, yes. You have to.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I live on the camino, I spent the day in Astorga with other people who live and work with albergues and projects along the trail. We all wore our masks assiduously, at least until the food arrived!
Meantime, when we are outside in open air and away from others? Not so much, not unless people are working or walking in close quarters. Pilgrims aren't wearing masks while out on the trail, but in town and indoors, yes. You have to.

Do you hear much about pilgrims who are staying in the various albergues...are they showing respect, abiding by the rules that have been establishd? We have been hearing otherwise in a few cases.

 

[trecile]

Here in Northern California and our situation is also serious. I actually have a few friends and acquaintances here who discount the impact of the disease. Fortunately for me, on a daily basis I can hike and bike away from them and hope for the best.

My daughter who lives in LA drove up to stay with us in Southern Oregon for a while. She stopped a few times for gas and restrooms. She reported that the farther north she got the fewer people wearing masks she saw, despite it being a statewide mandate to wear them in public.

 

[nycwalking]

These reports are a good example of how some/much of what we hear in the media (all types) is often hyped and overblown. (I live in Arizona)

I did drill down into the story of Arizona needing refrigerated trucks. The original story comes from the instigation of a contingency plan to be prepared for a surge in deaths. The surge has not happened.
The Phoenix (Maricopa County) medical examiner in an abundance of caution had some refrigeration units on hand...just in case, after the problems in New York City. The county morgue is not full.

The stories are picked up by a media source and then repeated, sometimes with embellishments, by others until it becomes much bigger than it is.

This is why I keep backing off from any and all news and spews.

Forbes says this, On-Air news that, CNN the other.

Too much.

I hate to admit I give credence to little except wear a mask, and folks are dying. And, the latter is just too much!

 

[gittiharre]

Interesting thing in New Zealand. Our initial lockdown (early and hard) with social distancing, knocked out the flu as well as Covid. Our flu vaccinations were delayed (lack of supply), but the flu numbers dropped as well. Although social distancing is difficult for people, it certainly wipes out virus transmission.

When Covid hit in NZ it was summer, and our numbers (until lockdown) climbed at a similar rate to Italy - we locked down early and it was successful. So I dont think the virus has an issue with heat.
We have no community transmission now and are free to live our lives as before, no masks, distancing or restricted numbers but we all know that eventually our borders will have to reopen. I am still cautious, and continue to limit visits and wash frequently. I still travel with hand sanitiser in the car.
But I know a lot of people have relaxed entirely, and that makes me a little nervous.

Most of our big clusters (other than rest homes) were linked to indoor social activity. Our biggest clusters were a wedding, an agricultural conference, several pub parties including a stag party and a school.
Apart from the school, what these events had in common was that they involved loud music where people have to get close to other people to be able to hear, sometimes having to shout. I figure alcohol doesn't help with clear thinking either, and people stop being careful.

I would love to think about a Camino, but at the moment I have put it further back in my mind, one of the things I love about the Camino is the social aspect, chatting and dining with others. Plus the idea of a long plane trip (17 hours followed by 8) freaks the hell out of me.

I am with you on this. I too live in NZ with many caminos behind me.

 

[CWBuff]

I know this is true....I read it on the internet.

 

[Bristle Boy]

The joy of this forum, for me, is the variety from the humerous to the serious and to the informative. As they say "variety is the spice of life".
One of the questions I have been grappling with is if the problem of bed bugs cannot be solved, a problem that can be visibly seen, then how can an invisible problem such as a transmittable virus be eliminated?

 

[Former member 60103]

"humerous" that really hit the funny bone.
Don.

 

[Bristle Boy]

"humerous" that really hit the funny bone.
Don.

Must watch my spelling (or predictive text)

 

[Bristle Boy]

I can't help feel sorry for Spain right now.
It has the sun, the sand and, amongst other things..the camino. It also has, like all other countries in the world, Covid.
The numbers of Covid cases are beginning to spike again in areas of Spain (as they were bound to do) as travel from other parts of the globe resumes.
I love Spain. I love France. I have been privileged to have been able to visit both on many occasions. I love the people, the food, the sounds and the smells. I attempt to (badly)speak their languages whilst I am there.
Because of this appreciation I would not be willing to go this year.
So, there are four cases of Covid on the camino. This does not indicate whether a four person group or four individuals. I would guess there are more.
Every day i see images of irresponsible behaviour that leave me frustrated that a simple message has not got through. People congregating in close proximity, the lack of protective equipment...a selfishness that defies description. I have been viewing one this morning.
I would implore everyone in a public place to wear a mask or face covering. Because one province does not make it mandatory to do so is irrelevant...just wear one.
Very little mention has been made of disposable gloves, another barrier to transmission.
I would implore anyone who doesn't need to go out to not do so. Numbers of infections have only diminished through a lockdown...it hasn't gone away.
Winter months approach and if a perfect storm is to be avoided this will be determined by what we do now. Actions and responsibilities which will dictate whether we are not having this conversation next year.
It will pass. Normality, or something resembling it, will resume...I am sure of that.

 

[C clearly]

Very little mention has been made of disposable gloves, another barrier to transmission.

Because hand washing and hand sanitizers can have the same effect.

 

[Bristle Boy]

Because hand washing and hand sanitizers can have the same effect.

If used...(and this is primarily used indoors)
Disposable gloves are just another safeguard.

 

[SabsP]

If used...(and this is primarily used indoors)
Disposable gloves are just another safeguard.

If used correctly. This means in a hospital / health service environment and with strict guidelines. One pair of gloves per patient. Throwing away said gloves after treating that one patient. Then washing and use of hand sanitizers.
Private persons using these gloves in for instance a supermarket : false feeling of safety.

 

[Bristle Boy]

If used correctly. This means in a hospital / health service environment and with strict guidelines. One pair of gloves per patient. Throwing away said gloves after treating that one patient. Then washing and use of hand sanitizers.
Private persons using these gloves in for instance a supermarket : false feeling of safety.

I haven't worn them to give me any false feeling of safety. I have worn them when visiting a store to give an additional barrier to transmission and to try to ensure that I have maintained their good housekeeping.

 

[Kathor1]

I'm a regular outpatient at a hospital (not in Spain) and there are huge posters at the entrance to the building to inform everyone who is not medical staff that you must wear a face mask at all times and that gloves are forbidden. As a private individual, I stopped using gloves many weeks ago. I pay great attention to hand hygiene (gel, washing, careful what I touch, don't touch face - one gets quickly used to it). I vaguely remember someone mentioning a general use of gloves in Spanish supermarkets but I'm not sure whether this is Covid-19 related or related to touching fruit and vegetables.

We know a lot more about the main ways of transmission of this virus than three months ago and I will refrain from rehashing again what is known now and which kind of situations one ought to avoid.

Coming back to the topic of the thread, there has been no further news about the group of 4 people in Almoster who were reported to be infected and having come back from a Camino trip, other than their small cluster is mentioned from time to time in local news media, together with other clusters in Catalonia.

 

[Bristle Boy]

I think I need to explain what I mean by gloves.
I am talking very thin plastic, single use and not of the accepted type either of the medical variety or the "keep your hands warm" variety. I don't expect this to be "de rigeur" but it is worth a mention as just another barrier.
I wear them and have been thanked (twice) by staff who at least recognise I have made the effort. This is just me.

 

[Kathor1]

I think I need to explain what I mean by gloves.

No need . There are disposable latex, nitril, and vinyl gloves and then there are also those very thin see-through gloves I've sometimes seen in Spanish grocery stores. Another reason I stopped using disposable gloves in connection with Covid-19: they add to my environment-unfriendly waste.

 

[Bristle Boy]

No need . There are disposable latex, nitril, and vinyl gloves and then there are also those very thin see-through gloves I've sometimes seen in Spanish grocery stores. Another reason I stopped using them: that they add to my eco-unfriendly waste.

I hate plastic in all forms...

 

[LTfit]

Do you hear much about pilgrims who are staying in the various albergues...are they showing respect, abiding by the rules that have been establishd? We have been hearing otherwise in a few cases.

I have been open since July 6th and have had no problem with pilgrims following the guidelines and my requests. Because the numbers have been small, usually only one or two pilgrims and one day 5, this has not been a problem: mask wearing when entering, use of hand gel, spraying of backpack and shoes left at the entrance. In addition I request one person at a time in the bathroom and distancing during our communal meal. My capacity now is only 12 beds but I don't expect to even reach that. The situation is different in the municipals that are open and at well known stops.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Yes, I've even seen a few castaway masks on my local trail in the town I live in...so disrespectful, both for the environment and potential contamination. I can only imagine how the camino will look within a year.

On my walk this morning in town I noticed this discarded mask on the side of a quiet street.

 

[Pilgrim_95]

On my walk this morning in town I noticed this discarded mask on the side of a quiet street.

We have seen dozens of these along the villages on Norte

 

[CWBuff]

I am not even going to try and attempt to post about disgarded masks and one-time use disposable gloves

 

[markmcilroy]

Interesting thing in New Zealand. Our initial lockdown (early and hard) with social distancing, knocked out the flu as well as Covid. Our flu vaccinations were delayed (lack of supply), but the flu numbers dropped as well. Although social distancing is difficult for people, it certainly wipes out virus transmission.

When Covid hit in NZ it was summer, and our numbers (until lockdown) climbed at a similar rate to Italy - we locked down early and it was successful. So I dont think the virus has an issue with heat.
We have no community transmission now and are free to live our lives as before, no masks, distancing or restricted numbers but we all know that eventually our borders will have to reopen. I am still cautious, and continue to limit visits and wash frequently. I still travel with hand sanitiser in the car.
But I know a lot of people have relaxed entirely, and that makes me a little nervous.

Most of our big clusters (other than rest homes) were linked to indoor social activity. Our biggest clusters were a wedding, an agricultural conference, several pub parties including a stag party and a school.
Apart from the school, what these events had in common was that they involved loud music where people have to get close to other people to be able to hear, sometimes having to shout. I figure alcohol doesn't help with clear thinking either, and people stop being careful.

I would love to think about a Camino, but at the moment I have put it further back in my mind, one of the things I love about the Camino is the social aspect, chatting and dining with others. Plus the idea of a long plane trip (17 hours followed by 8) freaks the hell out of me.

Yes so true about the lack of flu cases in NZ now and it is peak flu time, I haven't heard of anyone with influenza there is still the odd cough and cold about but even these seem to be less than usual. I believe this was the highest uptake of the flu vaccine this year so this would also help keep flu numbers lower.

 

[Bristle Boy]

Because hand washing and hand sanitizers can have the same effect.

If you research hand washing against hand sanitizer you will see that regular hand washing is more effective than alcohol hand sanitizers. They do not necessarily have the same effect.
I have watched people administering hand sanitizers. To some it is a "lick and a promise". It has taken this pandemic to reinforce the need of personal hygiene and it has taken an education programme on how they should do it properly and for how long.

 

[C clearly]

If you research hand washing against hand sanitizer you will see that regular hand washing is more effective than alcohol hand sanitizers. They do not necessarily have the same effect.
I have watched people administering hand sanitizers. To some it is a "lick and a promise". It has taken this pandemic to reinforce the need of personal hygiene and it has taken an education programme on how they should do it properly and for how long.

Yes, this is true. They are imperfect methods and can be practiced poorly. But this doesn't address your original reference to gloves, which are even less effective as typically used, are more open to misuse, and would create excessive plastic waste.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

i will add that if disposable gloves added nothing against transmission of disease, then why do all healthcare workers use them if washing hands and the use of sanitizers provide enough assurance against transmission of most infections.
It's removing them properly after each use and disposing of them correctly is the most important issue.

 

[Kathor1]

why do all healthcare workers use them

They touch sick people. They come in contact with bodily fluids.

We touch stuff.

Gloves are recommended when you care for a person in your home who is sick. That's rarely the case while walking a camino.

 

[C clearly]

why do all healthcare workers use them

It's removing them properly after each use and disposing of them correctly is the most important issue.

The health care workers are using dozens of pairs every day as they deal with the highest risk people.

For walking around the grocery store, getting into your car with the same gloves still on, going into the next store with them on - does no good.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

My doctor and dentist use them on me when I am not sick...it's a precaution.
I am not advocating their use on camino trails per say, but personally feel they have a "place" more than before in this new covid world we now live in.

 

[Kathor1]

I had to scroll back to see how this discussion about disposable gloves came about. The first mention of gloves is this: Very little mention has been made of disposable gloves, another barrier to transmission. Since this forum is dedicated to camino walking I understood this to mean "gloves in the context of camino walking". And indeed, of those who are currently walking, very few if any have mentioned gloves.

 

[SabsP]

My doctor and dentist use them on me when I am not sick...it's a precaution.
I am not advocating their use on camino trails per say, but personally feel they have a "place" more than before in this new covid world we now live in.

High risk profession and they do not want to be in contact with possible fluids from patients.
Afterwards they still wash their hands.

 

[Bristle Boy]

To a

High risk profession and they do not want to be in contact with possible fluids from patients.
Afterwards they still wash their hands.

To avoid cross infection.
Ok...it was a throw away line...it isn't for everyone...it is for me.
There is a link.for me regarding the safety on a camino but when I read that people staying in accommodation remove masks then I am not surprised there are four positive cases. Obviously they aren't for everyone.

 

[Kathor1]

when I read that people staying in accommodation remove masks then I am not surprised there are four positive cases

Just to keep the record straight: ALL that is known is that 4 people in Spain, namely 3 from a place called Reus i Almoster in Catalonia and 1 from Girona in Catalonia who all knew each other beforehand travelled together on a camino trip about which nothing else whatsoever is known and when they came back they were tested positive. We don't know where they stayed, we don't know how long they were away, we don't know anything about their wearing of masks, we don't even know where they got infected!

There has not been a single outbreak that has been associated with camino walkers staying in shared accommodation in camino albergues.

 

[Bristle Boy]

Judging by the BBC European news it might not be long before European travel is halted again. Something is going wrong.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

For walking around the grocery store, getting into your car with the same gloves still on, going into the next store with them on - does no good.

Who says this is how gloves are to be used? Not me! It would be ignorance.

 

[domigee]

Judging by the BBC European news it might not be long before European travel is halted again. Something is going wrong.

Nothing is going wrong. We now have to live - yet again - with a deadly virus. One more. We will find a way to cope with it. We have survived this far
What we may not survive is our reliance on .... plastic

 

[KinkyOne]

Nothing is going wrong. We now have to live - yet again - with a deadly virus. One more. We will find a way to cope with it. We have survived this far
What we may not survive is our reliance on .... plastic

Exactly!
People in Leningrad survived, Stalingrad, Sarajevo, WW1&2, Spanish Flu, you name it. And all of mentioned lasted quite longer than recent virus spread.

 

[trecile]

Exactly!
People in Leningrad survived, Stalingrad, Sarajevo, WW1&2, Spanish Flu, you name it. And all of mentioned lasted quite longer than recent virus spread.

But many people did not survive those events.

 

[KinkyOne]

But many people did not survive those events.

And many won't survive this one either. But also many more won't if we don't use some common sense.

I remember many times groups of let's say four people sitting at the same table in the bar all staring at their smart phones (are there any non-smart ones anymore?) dropping a line here or there. They could've done that easy with face masks I think. But suddenly there's a problem and a lot of folks complaining. Really? That's why I'm mentioning all those tragedies.