Portico of Glory

[Camo]

By chance I just saw a photo showing "railings" around all the pillars of the Portico of Glory - here is link

Anybody know what that is (or was) about? - they look temporary

 

[dick bird]

They are probably to stop people touching it or writing graffiti on it.

 

[Vacajoe]

Did the tour recently and saw them. Definitely in place to protect the architecture

 

[Caomhin O Fearghaill]

Conservation purposes...pilgrims can't touch anymore....It was one of the many traditions at the end of the pilgrimage. In the Portico there was the knocking of Master Mateo on the head with your head, (three times) and the placing of hands, both now banned, a pity but understandable, then the hugging of St James (over the High Altar) you can still do the hugging bit...now the bragging bit, I did the knocking, the hand placing and the hugging...I think it was 2010.

 

[Camo]

Conservation purposes...pilgrims can't touch anymore....It was one of the many traditions at the end of the pilgrimage. In the Portico there was the knocking of Master Mateo on the head with your head, (three times) and the placing of hands, both now banned, a pity but understandable, then the hugging of St James (over the High Altar) you can still do the hugging bit...now the bragging bit, I did the knocking, the hand placing and the hugging...I think it was 2010.

I read that parents would tap their children's heads on good old Mateo to transfer his smarts to them as they grew up. Too late for parents!

 

[Stephan the Painter]

By chance I just saw a photo showing "railings" around all the pillars of the Portico of Glory - here is link

Anybody know what that is (or was) about? - they look temporary

I saw the portico in May of this year, and they did not have those guard rails. But I do remember the guard chastising a few people who were touching. Even though the first thing he told us was not to touch them! Pretty incredible, but the ticket was €10 so you really have to want to see them.

 

[Camo]

Did the tour recently and saw them. Definitely in place to protect the architecture

Stephan the Painter said they were NOT there in May 2024, so were you before or after that date?

 

[Scott Fraser]

Conservation purposes...pilgrims can't touch anymore....It was one of the many traditions at the end of the pilgrimage.

In the spirit of having an honest conversation, let me pose a question: why is the default position in situations like this to conserve material things at the expense of a spiritual experience?

Placing one’s head or hands in the exact same place touched by millions of pilgrims who came before us connects us physically and spiritually with the past. Yes, the acid on our skin erodes the stone in some small way. Fingers of millions of touches have left their mark in the grooves worn into the stone. That’s why people want to touch it. The act of touching the stone connects us with those who walked the same way before.

I find it hard to believe that tens millions more gentle touches would bring the pillar down. But maybe I’m wrong.

Maybe I’m missing something, but it seems that future generations of pilgrims are being denied this physical connection with the past to prevent any deepening of grooves in a piece of stone. There must be other ways to mitigate the risk of a touch. Did the conservators consider alternatives to building barriers?

 

[Kathor1]

In the spirit of having an honest conversation, let me pose a question: why is the default position in situations like this to conserve material things at the expense of a spiritual experience? [...]

Maybe I’m missing something, but it seems that future generations of pilgrims are being denied this physical connection with the past to prevent any deepening of grooves in a piece of stone. There must be other ways to mitigate the risk of a touch. Did the conservators consider alternatives to building barriers?

This is asking the wrong question. The question is whether the Cathedral Chapter regards the two most popular rituals connected with the stone of the Portico de la Gloria as spiritual-religious, as something that must be maintained and allowed in a Cathedral, especially given the huge numbers of visitors every day and throughout the year and during Jacobean Holy Years. These acts became widely popularised especially since the monumental Holy Year 1993.

Or whether they regard the ritual of hugging the Apostle's statue as sufficient, especially given that it is the most traditional ritual of physically touching something within the Cathedral building and the only one that has been documented since the Middle Ages. There have been some comments about this from a spokesman of the Cathedral and from members of the Cathedral Chapter but you need to search the news archives for it.

 

[Scott Fraser]

This is asking the wrong question. The question is whether the Cathedral Chapter regards the two most popular rituals connected with the stone of the Portico de la Gloria as spiritual-religious, as something that must be maintained and allowed in a Cathedral, especially given the huge numbers of visitors every day and throughout the year and during Jacobean Holy Years. These acts became widely popularised especially since the monumental Holy Year 1993.

Or whether they regard the ritual of hugging the Apostle's statue as sufficient, especially given that it is the most traditional ritual of physically touching something within the Cathedral building and the only one that has been documented since the Middle Ages. There have been some comments about this from a spokesman of the Cathedral and from members of the Cathedral Chapter but you need to search the news archives for it.

thanks...

 

[Camo]

In the spirit of having an honest conversation, let me pose a question: why is the default position in situations like this to conserve material things at the expense of a spiritual experience?

Placing one’s head or hands in the exact same place touched by millions of pilgrims who came before us connects us physically and spiritually with the past. Yes, the acid on our skin erodes the stone in some small way. Fingers of millions of touches have left their mark in the grooves worn into the stone. That’s why people want to touch it. The act of touching the stone connects us with those who walked the same way before.

I find it hard to believe that tens millions more gentle touches would bring the pillar down. But maybe I’m wrong.

Maybe I’m missing something, but it seems that future generations of pilgrims are being denied this physical connection with the past to prevent any deepening of grooves in a piece of stone. There must be other ways to mitigate the risk of a touch. Did the conservators consider alternatives to building barriers?

I could not agree more with your assessment of this situation and I would also pose the question of how it was possible for these finger contacts to be in the same place (enough to START grooves) if the mischievous Master Mateo did not actually give them a "starting help".

 

[Vacajoe]

Stephan the Painter said they were NOT there in May 2024, so were you before or after that date?

We were there in late May (22nd?), so it’s definitely a new addition. Besides the railing, there were two docents present the entire time.

 

[Camo]

We were there in late May (22nd?), so it’s definitely a new addition. Besides the railing, there were two docents present the entire time.

Thanks for the info but I am confused about "docents" - were they giving you (or others) a guided tour or were they acting as security guards?

ie are people presently allowed to visit Portico of Glory without being on a guided tour?

 

[Vacajoe]

Thanks for the info but I am confused about "docents" - were they giving you (or others) a guided tour or were they acting as security guards?

ie are people presently allowed to visit Portico of Glory without being on a guided tour?

You must be on a guided tour. You meet in the neighboring building (to the left as you face the cathedral) and are led into the portico through a side door. You have an allotted amount of time to spend there before being asked to leave to make room for the next group. While there, we had our tour guide as well as two docents who could answer questions but mainly served as security to ensure no one touched the columns or tried to enter the area from the main church section.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Thanks for the info but I am confused about "docents" - were they giving you (or others) a guided tour or were they acting as security guards?

ie are people presently allowed to visit Portico of Glory without being on a guided tour?

… and it costs €10. I believe that also included an admission to the Cathedral museum, which is well worth a look.

I’m also interested in when the portico of glory became a controlled area? I believe in the past, maybe up until the 90s, you would enter the cathedral through the main entrance. I think that was why the portico of glory was constructed. To welcome pilgrims and tell the story of Saint James.

IMO, It is an incredible peace of art in the same league as sites like the sistine chapel (which I have also seen).

 

[Camo]

… and it costs €10. I believe that also included an admission to the Cathedral museum, which is well worth a look.

I’m also interested in when the portico of glory became a controlled area? I believe in the past, maybe up until the 90s, you would enter the cathedral through the main entrance. I think that was why the portico of glory was constructed. To welcome pilgrims and tell the story of Saint James.

IMO, It is an incredible peace of art in the same league as sites like the sistine chapel (which I have also seen).View attachment 175606

Could not agree more. And we had a thread here about a year back where it was concluded that the entrance in 2009 for filming of The Way was factual but the front doors were closed (and gates at bottom) shortly after.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

The Portico of Glory was closed when we arrived in 2015. I really regret not being able to touch the Tree of Jesse as I have four consecutive generations of Jesse in my family tree.

The better news is that we got to see the Botafumeiro swing.

 

[Kathor1]

I’m also interested in when the portico of glory became a controlled area?

There is a post somewhere from a reliable source according to which touching the sculptures of the middle column was prohibited as early as 2008, and I recently saw an article in a Spanish newspaper that said the same. In the following years this ban was either lifted or not strictly enforced but when the restoration work started in earnest (2010 perhaps?) it was no longer possible, and the ban was not lifted after the restoration of the Portico de la Gloria was completed in 2018.

Many people think that the custom of putting one’s hand on the column dates back to the Middle Ages but this is not documented. This is from the people in charge - from the app of the Fundación Barrié to be precise:

With respect to the Portico, there were several associated customs with origins that could not be proven to date back any earlier than the 19th century: tapping one’s head against the praying statue which, according to tradition, is a self-portrait of Mateo, and placing one’s hands on the shaft of the Tree of Jesse. Additionally, there is the more recent custom of sticking one’s hands through the ventilation holes in the lower crypt.​

​

Elsewhere in this app about the restoration they say that these practises are definitely terminated.

The Fundación Barrié played a leading role in the financing and steering of the restoration works for the Portico.

 

[peregrina2000]

… and it costs €10.

There are also free tickets available. You get a half hour, no guide, but an audioguide is available for € 2. Sign-ups can be done a week ahead of time.

Ticket sale Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela. Information of Free visits Pórtico de la Gloria

Official website of the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela for the online purchase of tickets for visits to the permanent collection, the Portico de la Gloria and Santa María La Real de Sar.

visitas.catedraldesantiago.es

Many people skip on through the Gelmirez Palace, which is how you reach the Pórtico. It is one of the most highly acclaimed pieces of civil Romanesque architecture, with many happy scenes of a party, food, music, etc.

When I was there this spring, I was not aware that the “no photography” rule applied to the Gelmirez Palace as well as to the Pórtico, and I snapped a few shots of some of my favorite scenes. I was quickly told it was not allowed, but was able to keep the shots I had taken.




I was there on May 15, and there was no gate, so the change must have happened between my visit and Vacajoe’s a week later.

And does anyone understand the “no photographs” rule? At some point I’m going to go back through my pictures to find dates when I have definitely been able to take pictures in the Pórtico de la Gloria. I remember that when the Fundación Barrié was paying for the restoration, there were special tickets available that allowed you to walk up on the scaffolding - I was about 4’ from the entire Pórtico and everyone was wildly snapping away in plain view of the attendants who were making sure we didn’t lean over and touch anything!

 

[trecile]

In the spirit of having an honest conversation, let me pose a question: why is the default position in situations like this to conserve material things at the expense of a spiritual experience?

Placing one’s head or hands in the exact same place touched by millions of pilgrims who came before us connects us physically and spiritually with the past.

How about just being in the same space as thousands/millions have been before you, and knowing that all is being done to maintain it for future generations?

 

[Peter-H]

In the spirit of having an honest conversation, let me pose a question: why is the default position in situations like this to conserve material things at the expense of a spiritual experience?

Placing one’s head or hands in the exact same place touched by millions of pilgrims who came before us connects us physically and spiritually with the past. Yes, the acid on our skin erodes the stone in some small way. Fingers of millions of touches have left their mark in the grooves worn into the stone. That’s why people want to touch it. The act of touching the stone connects us with those who walked the same way before.

I find it hard to believe that tens millions more gentle touches would bring the pillar down. But maybe I’m wrong.

Maybe I’m missing something, but it seems that future generations of pilgrims are being denied this physical connection with the past to prevent any deepening of grooves in a piece of stone. There must be other ways to mitigate the risk of a touch. Did the conservators consider alternatives to building barriers?

Firstly my thanks to the person who started this thread and to those who have added their views to the discussion. In particular Scott, I believe you have identified a pivotal issue. I believe the Portico of Glory, and access to it, is an important issue for all Pilgrims.



I completed the Camino Francis in April, May last year and I absolutely enjoyed every aspect of it. The people, the albergues, the beer and wine, the Spanish countryside were all outstanding. Above all however, the opportunity to walk through what is effectively an eight hundred km long museum and get up close with the history was a wonderful experience.

To round all that out with the experience of arriving in the Cathedral Square in Santiago is something I’ll never forget. Irrespective of whether someone walks all or part of the Camino for Religious / Sacred reasons or simply for the adventure (I’m a mix of all three) the arrival at the Cathedral is a highly significant event.



Notwithstanding the above, I felt the one thing missing from my Pilgrimage was not being able to enter the Cathedral via the Portico of Glory and indulge in the few rituals that have defined the end of a Pilgrimage for so many people throughout history.

I appreciate the views expressed by some that just being there is the important ritual in itself. I also appreciate that the task of preserving this incredible artefact is a huge management issue given the burgeoning numbers of visitors, Pilgrims and others, who seek that experience.



At the risk of seeming self-indulgent however, I believe some consideration could be given to providing the means whereby Pilgrims could enter the Cathedral through the front doors and indulge in the ancient rituals. The need to effectively manage this would be essential. Maybe specified time slots during the day and maybe a charge, perhaps tiered to cater for young people, students, as well as presentation of Credential, etc.

Regarding the rituals, there are surface treatments available that would be totally transparent and would prevent the further erosion that is the source of concern at present. An effective treatment strategy would enable these rituals, that are important to so many, to be carried on without any negative impact.



I don’t think someone would necessarily need to complete the entire Camino to enable them to experience this. Many people are for whatever reason unable to do so. Perhaps the criteria used to determine eligibility for a Certificate would be appropriate.



Irrespective of the detail necessary to enable this Pilgrim experience, it would be good if those concerned could give some thought as to how such an arrangement could be progressed.

 

[Kathor1]

How about just being in the same space as thousands/millions have been before you, and knowing that all is being done to maintain it for future generations?

This .

It is a thought that I often had, especially in the grandiose Gothic cathedrals of northern France: Just sitting there and thinking of all the people so long ago who contributed to such an amazing building. What they felt, what they thought, what it had meant to them, the effort they had put into erecting it ... But I am not immune to touching either . I remember, walking over the bridge after Cirauqui, that I let my hand glide over the big rectangular stone blocks and suddenly thought: "Romans touched this. Wow". Nowadays I am not even certain that those particular blocks of stone are original. It just shows how much is in our imagination.

I am not surprised that those in charge do not share the passionate views that some express about having to touch the foliage on the middle column of the Portico de la Gloria. It was meant for pilgrims to touch from the beginning??? What would the average Camino peregino answer when asked about the meaning of an artistic representation of a Tree of Jesse? The meaning of the Portico sculpture as a whole? I would not dare to ask as I would fear their answers ... . And so I am not surprised about the position taken by those in charge of the Cathedral and its religious-artistic treasures and that they say: "Don't touch this. Ever."

 

[Pafayac]

At the risk of seeming self-indulgent however, I believe some consideration could be given to providing the means whereby Pilgrims could enter the Cathedral through the front doors and indulge in the ancient rituals.

I do not agree.
In my (not so humble) opinion, Camino is not a museum, it is alive.
We do not know the real meaning of "ancient rituals", and I believe that mind and mood of ancient pilgrims were so different from ours that it is difficult to join them just by touching a stone or embracing a statue...
Of course it is impressive to think about all the pilgrims who were walking there before us, but it should not prevent us to think about all our fellow pilgrims now and the future pilgrims who have right to watch a not so spoiled cathedral of Santiago.
The magical of the Camino exists, perhaps it comes from old stones, but it is present in alive pilgrims and inhabitants...

 

[Kathor1]

I downloaded the app yesterday that the Fundación Barrié has created: https://porticodelagloria.fundacionbarrie.org/en/ but you can find similar information on websites. It lists nine reasons for the deterioration of the Portico de la Gloria.

The tear and wear effects and the greasy patina and other grime left by human presence and human interaction is only one reason. Sunlight - the Portico faces west and receives direct sunlight in the afternoon - and the constant presence of humidity that is typical for the climate in Santiago are also reasons why the portals remain closed and are opened only on exceptional occasions such as for entering the Cathedral for the Solemn Mass on the Apostle's feast day - and the royal party and other participants don't touch the column anyway!

Remember that the statues are polychromatic, i.e. painted with colour, and much of the colouring was restored during the recent works.

The conditions are constantly monitored. Opening the portals permanently and letting thousands of visitors heave and breathe around the Portico is presumably not desirable. My guess - just a guess - is that is why access is limited to small groups who are allowed to stay only for a short time. And not for hundreds if not thousands of daily visitors that would mill around there otherwise.

 

[Bradypus]

I am in several minds on the issue of access to the Portico. As someone fortunate enough to have entered the cathedral as a pilgrim through the Portico, placed my hand on the Tree of Jesse and nodded to Master Mateo I can testify to my own joy at being able to share in these simple rituals with many thousands of others over many years. A visceral rather than an intellectual experience. But I can also see some merit in the argument that the vast increase in numbers of visitors over the years has greatly increased the potential for damage to the fabric of the Portico. I'm not wholly convinced by the arguments for restricting access to the Portico to protect it from the effects of Galician weather though. It is already quite well sheltered by the later Baroque facade. @Kathar1na's point about the carvings being polychromatic is not entirely convincing either - like so much of medieval church sculpture that original painting had effectively been lost over the years. Those of us who saw the Portico in the years immediately before the closure of the cathedral for extensive renovation and repair work some years ago would have had to search quite hard for any substantial evidence of the original colour scheme. Today's precautions are mostly protecting very recent and extensive "restoration" painting rather than original work.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I'm OK without touching it.
I have worked in the field of architectural art conservation and restoration, in the United States, mostly in churches or government buildings. Nothing in the league of the Portico of Glory, but these projects take years and cost a fortune. You definitely want to preserve the work.

What I don't like is having to use the side entrance to the cathedral instead of the traditional front entrance. If you could do this as recently as 2008, there must be people on this board who were able to enter the cathedral that way and maybe even have digital images of what the front looked like before they closed the gates.

And @Bradypus, could you elucidate on the experience?

Or do I misunderstand all of this? I'd also love to see pictures of the Portico with the doors open if anybody has any historic pictures or links...

 

[Stephan the Painter]

There are also free tickets available. You get a half hour, no guide, but an audioguide is available for € 2. Sign-ups can be done a week ahead of time.

I wasn't aware of that. Just as an experiment I tried to get tickets for next week. It's all sold out, so I suspect anytime between April and September, It's really hard to get those free tickets. Maybe getting on the website right away after midnight, or early in the morning for the seventh day…

Many people skip on through the Gelmirez Palace, which is how you reach the Pórtico. It is one of the most highly acclaimed pieces of civil Romanesque architecture, with many happy scenes of a party, food, music, etc.

That room is wonderful! Especially the way they light the capital reliefs! I did the same thing and took three or four photos before the guard told me to stop.

 

[Kathor1]

The really fascinating bit about the whole complex is, at least in my modest opinion, the fact that there were no portals at all on the west facade (Obradioro facade). It was wide open. At least this is how I understand descriptions based on efforts to recreate a model of the Santiago Cathedral in the Middle Ages. No Baroque facade of course, hence none of the large portals and side doors that we see today but also no portals on the Portico. It was supposedly just open. I find this astonishing.

I think that we must also imagine life inside a Cathedral in the Middle Ages differently from today. A friend recommended an interesting book to me, De Geuren van de kathedral - The Smells of the Cathedral. Medieval cathedrals were a hubbub of activity, with many kinds of people milling around, including clerical staff. Noisy, smelly, full of life.

 

[Bradypus]

And @Bradypus, could you elucidate on the experience?

Not sure there is much that I can add. My first camino was in 1990 and numbers walking then were very small by today's standards. About 1% of this year's figures. The number of visitors to the cathedral - walking or otherwise - was also far smaller than at present. There were certainly large numbers of tourists in the streets and plazas but pilgrims were still rare enough that my rucksack attracted pointing and stares in the street and even a few people taking photos of me. After 34 years my memories of the event are not entirely sharp. I do recall clearly climbing the stairs from the Obradoiro though I do not now recall whether I entered by the central doors or the ones which flank them. There were no security guards at the entrances to the cathedral and pilgrims routinely arrived and entered carrying their rucksacks. There was the still familiar opportunity to hug the silver image of the Apostle. I had been looking forward to that in particular as almost all that I knew of the Camino in those pre-internet days came from conversations with my mother-in-law and from reading Laurie Dennett's pilgrimage account A Hug for the Apostle.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Not sure there is much that I can add. My first camino was in 1990 and numbers walking then were very small by today's standards. About 1% of this …

Thank you. I first read about the Camino around 1998, and really wish I had not waited 20 years to do it.

I’m sure it was a very different and unique feeling experience. When I was there in May this year the Cathedral was so crowded at one point I left and came back later. Probably a lot more work logistically at that time, though.

The portico was still, well, glorious. And perhaps easier to view after its restoration.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Noisy, smelly, full of life.

Yes, thats right! They would have been the center of the cities life as opposed to now when most European Cathedrals are the focus of tourism.

Looks like a very interesting book. To bad it’s not in English yet….

You said you were reading some Spanish language articles about the portico. Do you know what they call the “portico of glory” in Spanish (or Gallego)? Maybe I can do an image search for historic photos.
Thank you.
(Edit: OK, I found it very simple Spanish translation, Portico de la Gloria)

 

[Bradypus]

Probably a lot more work logistically at that time, though.

In some respects. If you have the budget and the inclination a Camino now can be a far less physically demanding exercise than it used to be: luggage transport, shorter stages, no need to carry sleeping bag and mat and less food and water required to tide you over the empty kilometres. But things were also far simpler in practice in 1990. You just picked up your pack and then walked to the end. Refugios could not be reserved and sometimes there were no contact details anyway beyond "ask the priest" in the guides. But the refugios were also very unlikely to be full. There was no luggage transport so you would not waste any of your time organizing that. I arrived in SJPDP by train with nothing prebooked. Not even my return transport to the UK. I think that one of the disadvantages of having so much information instantly available now is that it has given rise to a belief that every aspect of a journey can and must be managed in fine detail from the start - or even before first setting foot on a Camino. A tendency to believe that because something can be done then it must be done.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

. A tendency to believe that because something can be done then it must be done.

That is so true. I used to plan trips much more carefully. Not anymore. It stops you from enjoying the spontaneity of travel and unexpected adventures. Although nowadays you’re almost competing against other tourists (and pilgrims ) for beds and experiences so it can be stressful to wait for the last minute. But my earliest independent travels in the 90’s were less stressful because I simply couldn't plan much in advance.

The easily available information is one thing that contributes to more people traveling.
And to many people is why the powers that be feel they have to access-limit the Portico of Glory.

 

[Kathor1]

Maybe I can do an image search for historic photos

The Spanish Wikipedia article (but not the English one) has a photo of the Tree of Jesse column from 1889. It is a fototipia, whatever that is, it looks like a photo to me. Pretty amazing. When I had a look at the F. Barrié app to see any possible differences, I stumbled on a text about the Bestiary, i.e. the beasts at the foot of the column. Quote:

Because it is so highly tempting for visitors in avid search of a relic from this place that they can touch, it is significant that none, absolutely none, of the Portico's polychrome within hand's reach remains.​

​

I had to read the sentence twice to understand it: People touch everything in their reach. That is why the investigators and technicians could not find a single trace of colour in these areas, despite their highly sophisticated tools. Which is why the sculptures have remained blank in these lower areas after restoration, only the part with the Trinity has some colour, see below. (The wooden protection screen in the photo has long been removed.)

​

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

BTW, there is an app to view the Portico called Pórtico de la Gloria SC.

 

[Peter-H]

Thanks again Scott for posing the question regarding access to the Portico of Glory.

The discussion covers a variety of views around that question as well as the one regarding access to the Cathedral more generally. It has also been enlightening, for me at least, to better appreciate some of the issues associated with the preservation of such a significant and much admired artefact.



Even recognising all of the issues involved however, I still believe there would be merit in the Cathedral Chapter giving consideration to some sort of arrangement that would enable Pilgrims to enter via the front doors and touch the couple of significant points of the Portico of Glory, under appropriate supervision.



I am not suggesting access to tourists generally. Also I don’t think it is being elitist to suggest distinguishing Pilgrims who have walked significant distances with the specific objective of getting to the Cathedral, from those who have picked it up as tourists on the run-thru as part of a bus tour.



One point of clarification regarding my comment about the Camino Francis being an eight hundred km long museum. I’m not suggesting anything other than I believe it is an incredible walk through history; religious, architectural, engineering and political; that is as vibrant and alive today as it ever was; at least that’s my take on it. I do acknowledge that it has changed over time and indeed some aspects are even more alive now. The quality of the beer at the end of each day stands testimony to that.

 

[Camo]

Also I don’t think it is being elitist to suggest distinguishing Pilgrims who have walked significant distances with the specific objective of getting to the Cathedral, from those who have picked it up as tourists on the run-thru as part of a bus tour.

The irony of that is a "true" pilgrim must have already checked into her/his hotel and left their backpack there BEFORE entering the Cathedral (by any entrance) - so the "distinguishing" becomes a bit more difficult.

 

[Kathor1]

touching the sculptures of the middle column was prohibited as early as 2008, and I recently saw an article in a Spanish newspaper that said the same.

I found the article from June 2008 again! Quote: "It's over. The Santo dos Croques will no longer be headbutted and the tourists and pilgrims, 10 million during the Holy Year, will no longer be able to put their fingers through the five holes in the mullion."

The article was published in El Pais. It is behind a paywall but when you are fast enough you can read it. I'll post the extract that sheds some light on the thinking of the Cathedral Chapter's spokesperson at the time. It is perhaps a little insensitive so I post the Spanish original. Have it translated by your browser at your own peril . This is the attitude you will have to overcome in any petition or lobbying activity to have these two rituals allowed again. The spokesperson, José Fernández Lago, became the Dean of the Cathedral in 2021 which means that he is currently also the boss of the Pilgrim Office (I think) and pilgrimage matters are part of his portfolio.

Ahora, el portavoz del Cabildo reconoce que el gobierno de la Catedral no está "de acuerdo con la tradición de los dedos y los croques, porque es un rito vacío, sin sentido, que está fuera de lugar en pleno siglo XXI; un disfrute pequeño frente al mal que se le hace al patrimonio, algo que se protege en todas partes sin que nadie se queje". "Yo recuerdo que de joven, en el Vaticano, todos nos acercábamos y tocábamos la Pietá" de Miguel Ángel, cuenta Fernández Lago, "y ahora está protegida y no pasa nada". "Aquí tiene que ocurrir igual", sigue el canónigo. "Hoy está confirmado que el Santo dos Croques no es santo y no va interceder" por la inteligencia de los fieles. Además, "da pena ver a la gente, que no sabe lo que hace. Meten la mano ahí y ya ni miran lo que tienen encima, la grandeza del Pórtico". El abrazo al Apóstol, en la otra punta de la seo, tras el altar mayor, será, junto con el vuelo del Botafumeiro, el único ritual pintoresco que siga vigente. "Ahí no hay peligro de desgaste, porque ya se le cambió la esclavina de plata original por una réplica".​

​

Source: https://elpais.com/diario/2008/06/08/galicia/1212920301_850215

 

[Camo]

I found the article from June 2008 again! Quote: "It's over. The Santo dos Croques will no longer be headbutted and the tourists and pilgrims, 10 million during the Holy Year, will no longer be able to put their fingers through the five holes in the mullion."

The article was published in El Pais. It is behind a paywall but when you are fast enough you can read it. I'll post the extract that sheds some light on the thinking of the Cathedral Chapter's spokesperson at the time. It is perhaps a little insensitive so I post the Spanish original. Have it translated by your browser at your own peril . This is the attitude you will have to overcome in any petition or lobbying activity to have these two rituals allowed again. The spokesperson, José Fernández Lago, became the Dean of the Cathedral in 2021 which means that he is currently also the boss of the Pilgrim Office (I think) and pilgrimage matters are part of his portfolio.

Ahora, el portavoz del Cabildo reconoce que el gobierno de la Catedral no está "de acuerdo con la tradición de los dedos y los croques, porque es un rito vacío, sin sentido, que está fuera de lugar en pleno siglo XXI; un disfrute pequeño frente al mal que se le hace al patrimonio, algo que se protege en todas partes sin que nadie se queje". "Yo recuerdo que de joven, en el Vaticano, todos nos acercábamos y tocábamos la Pietá" de Miguel Ángel, cuenta Fernández Lago, "y ahora está protegida y no pasa nada". "Aquí tiene que ocurrir igual", sigue el canónigo. "Hoy está confirmado que el Santo dos Croques no es santo y no va interceder" por la inteligencia de los fieles. Además, "da pena ver a la gente, que no sabe lo que hace. Meten la mano ahí y ya ni miran lo que tienen encima, la grandeza del Pórtico". El abrazo al Apóstol, en la otra punta de la seo, tras el altar mayor, será, junto con el vuelo del Botafumeiro, el único ritual pintoresco que siga vigente. "Ahí no hay peligro de desgaste, porque ya se le cambió la esclavina de plata original por una réplica".​

​

Source: https://elpais.com/diario/2008/06/08/galicia/1212920301_850215

Well it would seem reprehensible to the so called "fair minded person" that the church gave the green light for open door and fingers in a movie in 2010 that millions of wanna-be pilgrims around the world would take as gospel and go out and buy a backpack. But fair minded thoughts just get deleted here so I am wasting my breath.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

I found the article from June 2008 again! Quote: "It's over. The Santo dos Croques will no longer be headbutted and the tourists and pilgrims, 10 million during the Holy Year, will no longer be able to put their fingers through the five holes in the mullion."

It’s strange. I definitely touched it in 2012, and I don’t recall any prohibition or railings. When I returned in 2014 I remember being surprised that the column was ‘fenced’ off. In 2012 I took a close-up photo which unfortunately came out blurred… camera shake?

 

[Kathor1]

It’s strange. I definitely touched it in 2012, and I don’t recall any prohibition or railings

I agree, these timelines are confusing. What puzzles me right now is the fact that the link in post #1 points to a photo taken two years ago in April 2022. Some posters saw railings now in May 2024, others didn't. These railings seem to come and go . The ones in the photo do not look very photogenic. I hope that they use an aesthetically more pleasing version if it is permanent.

 

[Camo]

I agree, these timelines are confusing. What puzzles me right now is the fact that the link in post #1 points to a photo taken two years ago in April 2022. Some posters saw railings now in May 2024, others didn't. These railings seem to come and go . The ones in the photo do not look very photogenic. I hope that they use an aesthetically more pleasing version if it is permanent.

Yes as I said in post #1 they look very temporary so may have been an experiment after removing the blonde timber partition as shown in the "official panos" in April 2021 Street View "Trekker" Panorama which must have cost "a petty penny" for several hundred professional panos with a "cleared church".

Current reports are saying some security people are stopping people trying to pass under the portico and from memory even in The Way we saw Sarah pass through the right portal (3 arrow clicks across)

 

[trecile]

The article was published in El Pais. It is behind a paywall but when you are fast enough you can read it.

I just learned about a site that will allow you to read articles that are behind a paywall.

Paywall Reader | Read without paywalls for free

Bypass paywalls effortlessly with the Paywall Reader, accessing articles and content for free and without restrictions.

paywallreader.com

 

[Kathor1]

I just learned about a site that will allow you to read articles that are behind a paywall.

Paywall Reader | Read without paywalls for free

Bypass paywalls effortlessly with the Paywall Reader, accessing articles and content for free and without restrictions.

paywallreader.com

That's interesting. I knew about Google Cache and Internet Archive. In principle, I am not averse to paying for a news article. There are websites where they charge €1 for one article, or for today's edition, and I'd be willing to pay this and I have done so sometimes. Unfortunately, many major news websites don't have this option. You have to sign up for a period of time.

Some websites display the whole text of an article before the paywall goes up on your screen. If you are a very quick reader you can see the whole article before it disappears and only the headline and the first few lines remain visible ...

 

[Kathor1]

Yes as I said in post #1 they look very temporary so may have been an experiment after removing the blonde timber partition as shown in the "official panos" in April 2021 Street View "Trekker" Panorama which must have cost "a petty penny" for several hundred professional panos with a "cleared church".

I don't understand this.

The recent restoration and renovation of the Cathedral of Santiago lasted some 15 years and cost millions of euros. The cost of the restoration of the Portico de la Gloria alone was over 6 million euros, and I remember having read recently that the Spanish government earmarked 17 million euros for the restoration of the other parts of the Cathedral - both inside and outside.

While work was going on in one specific part inside this large Cathedral, other parts were closed off to the general public. And for many months even the whole Cathedral was closed for religious service, and the pilgrim mass took place in a different church in Santiago. That was just before the start of the recent Jacobean Holy Year.

The wooden partition in one of the photos was put up for a while because the restoration work on the Portico, in particular the application of paint, had been finished but went on in other parts of the Cathedral, and the wooden partition served as a protection against dust from these other "building sites" on and near the high altar.

Current reports are saying some security people are stopping people trying to pass under the portico and from memory even in The Way we saw Sarah pass through the right portal (3 arrow clicks across)

You may misunderstand these reports. Access to the Portico de la Gloria is from inside of the building complex, namely from a small exhibition area of some medieval statues and the reception area where they sell the tickets. People milling around in the Cathedral can view the back of the Portico (i.e they see in particular the small kneeling statue) but they cannot approach it and they cannot walk through the arches of the Portico. Those who paid their ticket can walk around in the Portico area and view the columns from every side and every angle.

Whatever Sarah did ... it is in the past.

 

[Kathor1]

The restoration of the Portico de la Gloria alone was over 6 million euros, and I remember having read recently that the Spanish government earmarked 17 million euros for the restoration of the other parts of the Cathedral - both inside and outside.

I remembered correctly: 23 million euros in total to restore the splendour of the Cathedral of Santiago inside and outside. The bulk of the cost was borne by the Spanish State, a much smaller part of the financing came from the Government of Galicia, and the 6 million euros raised by the Fondacion Barrié for the restoration of the Portico de la Gloria came from sponsors, donors, people and institutions engaged in the patronage of the arts, see article:

Las obras de la Catedral de Santiago costarán 770.000 euros más de lo previsto y los aportará la Xunta

La restauración actualmente en marcha en el templo compostelano recibió 16,6 millones de financiación estatal, que la Xunta había complementado con otros 387.000, a los que ahora añadirá una partida final de algo menos de 800.000

www.eldiario.es

 

[Kathor1]

I definitely touched it in 2012, and I don’t recall any prohibition or railings. When I returned in 2014 I remember being surprised that the column was ‘fenced’ off.

I am really digging into this now . So The Movie that pops up again and again in these threads was shot in the autumn of 2009. Below is the link to an article, with photo, from January 2010 that deplores the fact that the metal scaffolding around the Portico de la Gloria had been put in place one and a half years earlier, in July 2008. Not much actual work had been done since, and it would not be finished for the Holy Year 2010. Quote:

The possibility that the scaffolding could be removed, even temporarily, during part of the Holy Year 2010 had also been rejected, so that visitors could contemplate the work. In this way, one of the most recognized spaces of the Cathedral internationally remains covered and only accessible through the guided tours started last year [2009], which must be booked in advance, or wait at the last minute to see if there is any free space left.​

​

I guess that the Portico de la Gloria space was closed, on and off, throughout the years since 2008 and was finally closed off for good to any pedestrian traffic coming in from the Obradoiro square once the restoration work was finished in 2018, and the cleaning and uncovering of rests of paint and refreshing of paint had been finished.

And, oh joy, this was a reason to have yet another look at the movie scenes. Of course we don't see the metal scaffolding in the movie! There is actually very very little to see of the Portico de la Gloria in the movie. We know of course that movies don't reflect reality. They are made up. Cleverly made up though. They show us what the movie director wants us to see. Not what we would have seen had we been there during the filming.

 

[Camo]

I am really digging into this now . So The Movie that pops up again and again in these threads was shot in the autumn of 2009. Below is the link to an article, with photo, from January 2010 that deplores the fact that the metal scaffolding around the Portico de la Gloria had been put in place one and a half years earlier, in July 2008. Not much actual work had been done since, and it would not be finished for the Holy Year 2010. Quote:

The possibility that the scaffolding could be removed, even temporarily, during part of the Holy Year 2010 had also been rejected, so that visitors could contemplate the work. In this way, one of the most recognized spaces of the Cathedral internationally remains covered and only accessible through the guided tours started last year [2009], which must be booked in advance, or wait at the last minute to see if there is any free space left.​

​

I guess that the Portico de la Gloria space was closed, on and off, throughout the years since 2008 and was finally closed off for good to any pedestrian traffic coming in from the Obradoiro square once the restoration work was finished in 2018, and the cleaning and uncovering of rests of paint and refreshing of paint had been finished.

And, oh joy, this was a reason to have yet another look at the movie scenes. Of course we don't see the metal scaffolding in the movie! There is actually very very little to see of the Portico de la Gloria in the movie. We know of course that movies don't reflect reality. They are made up. Cleverly made up though. They show us what the movie director wants us to see. Not what we would have seen had we been there during the filming.

View attachment 175707

Thanks for ongoing info but the photo above is not the portico but outside doors.

Personally I only want these to be opened for 5 minutes to have Google take say 4 Street View panos (with arrows) so one can take a Virtual Walk into the Cathedral. I am not a pilgrim but I imagine if I was I would be very upset after walking 800 km (or even 100) to not be permitted to MEET & GREET Santiago as pilgrims have done for hundreds of years.

It also seems to me pilgrims are very meek folk and don't like to complain, but that's their business so as I see it the doors will remain bolted AND barred (as you can see from the inside Street View)

 

[Camo]

I am really digging into this now

But what was even more beneficial to me was your research/explanation last year sometime? into the figure on top of Santiago of "Christ in Majesty/Judgement"
IMHO there is a case for Master Mateo morphing Santiago (once martyred) to Christ for the purpose of the exercise (given the head is exactly the same as below) but that is not important.

Seems to me what is important is that this is a sort of combination Meet & Greet and Judgement OF the pilgrim as having "passed the test" of the pilgrimage and being "worthy" of entering this Holy House.

So sneaking in the side door (north or south) does not make it in the narrative for me. What say others?

 

[C clearly]

It also seems to me pilgrims are very meek folk and don't like to complain, but that's their business

Seems to me what is important is that this is a sort of combination Meet & Greet and Judgement OF the pilgrim as having "passed the test" of the pilgrimage and being "worthy" of entering this Holy House.

Camo, you have said you are not a pilgrim and will not be doing a pilgrimage to Santiago. Why, then, do you persist in making provocative remarks about the nature and intent of pilgrims?

What is your interest and intent in these forum discussions, other than your mapping project?

 

[Kathor1]

Christ in Majesty

Christ in Majesty is a common motif. You find it on the tympanum (sculpture above a portal) of many Romanesque and Gothic cathedral. I've viewed and explored it a dozen times and more on my way to Santiago.

I don't see much similarity in the faces of the figure of Christ and the figure of Saint James.

Saint James is shown in a position and dress and with accessories that make him look like a bishop. You may have read in a guidebook that Saint James "greets the pilgrim". That is a free interpretation. It is not the meaning of the statue.

The purpose and meaning of the Portico de la Gloria is not greeting pilgrims. Saint James is not the most important element in the narrative of the Portico. You can find a lot of information about the narrative of the Portico de la Gloria and the mindset of the people who lived in the 11th and 12th century. It is about what is awaiting you after death and at the End of Times. The fear of this expected event is what drove medieval people to go on pilgrimage and pray and seek protection from a saint during their last hour on earth and afterwards. Saint James was regarded as an important psychopomp in the Middle Ages. This was part of his immense popularity at the time.

I don't think that this needs further explanation on the forum. There is really plenty of information on the internet, including in English.

 

[Kathor1]

the photo above is not the portico but outside doors.

Excuse me? The photo is a view of the Portico de la Gloria taken from the nave of the Cathedral!

The column in the middle of the photo is the column with the Tree of Jesse and with the figure on the opposite side that is supposed to be Master Mateo - you can even see it on the photo, partly hidden by the metal railings.

There is a tremendous amount of photos of the Portico de la Gloria on the internet. The Barrié Foundation produced a series of amazing high resolution images at the conclusion of the restoration work. There is little point in restricting it to photos on Google Maps or Google Earth although I guess that is what your project is about - only images taken by Google or uploaded to Google Maps/Earth?

I sincerely recommend that you make more use of information that is available on websites, or perhaps in a good book about the Portico de la Gloria and about the layout of the Cathedral building as such, including how it changed throughout the centuries.

 

[Kathor1]

information about the narrative of the Portico de la Gloria and the mindset of the people who lived in the 11th and 12th century

Ever wondered why it is called Porch of Glory? It is not because it is a glorious piece of medieval religious art. Start by reading Wikipedia for example: Christ in Majesty or Christ in Glory is the Western Christian image of Christ seated on a throne as ruler of the world.

 

[Camo]

The Barrié Foundation produced a series of amazing high resolution images at the conclusion of the restoration work.

So what is the link to these or are they "secret"

 

[Graham-R]

It would be nice if they created something 'new' that could be placed on the outside of the Cathedral so finishing & backpacked pilgrims could go through the ritual of crawling and touching 'something'. Perhaps after a few years or decades the touched piece could be removed and placed inside the cathedral museum and a new 'block' replaced in a larger piece of some sort...

 

[Kathor1]

Below is a number of photos from the 1940s and 1980s iirc.

The idea that the tradition of imposing your hand on the column is a century old tradition of the long distance pilgrim dating back to the Middle Ages is highly questionable. To turn it into an exclusivity for today's pilgrims from say SJPP and further away only - best of luck with lobbying for such a proposal ...

It was, or is, the tradition of the local people, of the middle-aged and elderly women from the countryside, of the Spanish visitors from all over Spain who copied the ritual because they saw it on their TV screens and in their newspapers. It reminds me of kissing the painting of a saint or the statue of a saint - common in Catholic countries like Italy and Spain, less common and even absent in some of the other European countries more to the north. It is part of "folk religion" or "vernacular religion" which can be defined as various forms and expressions of religion that are distinct from the official doctrines and practices of organized religion. One could perhaps say that characteristics and beliefs of folk religion are tolerated by the Church as an institution but not encouraged.

Remember the 2008 interview with the then spokesperson of the Cathedral who later became the Dean? An empty, meaningless rite, out of place in the 21st century, says the Chapter of the Cathedral.

 

[Kathor1]

are they "secret"

The only answer I can think of:

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

The Barrié Foundation produced a series of amazing high resolution images at the conclusion of the restoration work.

So what is the link to these or are they "secret"

BTW, there is an app to view the Portico called Pórtico de la Gloria SC.

The Barrié Foundation photographs can be viewed with the app I mentioned above.

 

[SabsP]

It would be nice if they created something 'new' that could be placed on the outside of the Cathedral so finishing & backpacked pilgrims could go through the ritual of crawling and touching 'something'. Perhaps after a few years or decades the touched piece could be removed and placed inside the cathedral museum and a new 'block' replaced in a larger piece of some sort...

There is already a wonderful ritual inside the Cathedral. It is called Mass.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I have not kept up on this long and newsy thread, nor am I interested or worrying about what I can not change, although I was very touched emotionally by Jost walking on his knees at the cathedral and placing his hand in the worn column in "The Way".
I recall @Anniesantiago meeting Martin Sheen during the filming of "The Way" and she posted a picture on the forum of Mr. Sheen and herself (I think they were in Santiago). Possibly she can verify some first hand information on what she saw at that time if she sees this thread.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I really wish you could enter the Santiago Cathedral through the main entrance and Pass through the Portico. It would have such gravitas, walking up the steps and symbolically ending the Camino. Maybe for credentialed Pilgrims only. But, oh well…

My guess is that limiting acces was a conservation recommendation . Sometimes this is written in contracts if private funders are involved as was the case here.

And 15 years ago there were a lot less people doing the Camino.

 

[Camo]

The Barrié Foundation photographs can be viewed with the app I mentioned above.

Hi Rick (and Peg) - are you saying these photos are only available to view on a mobile phone? I am looking for photos (preferably photospheres) that can be viewed on a computer.

Google has provided several hundred of these in 2021 but is missing those outside of the doors on west side because of the temporary partition at the time

 

[Camo]

Excuse me? The photo is a view of the Portico de la Gloria taken from the nave of the Cathedral!

No excuse me, I was confused by the low quality newspaper (or whatever) photo which seems (to me) to show the door as dark green (the colour of outside of doors) whereas the high quality photospheres show the inside as brown (2021) and the wood partition in 2021 meant I was unable to see the Master Mateo side of the Portico, hence my confusion.

BUT as I say above this is not a big deal to me to have doors open all the time (but may be to others) as all I want is for them to be opened for 10 minutes while a professional photographer takes photospheres in front so I can make a proper "Virtual Entry Video".

I have made the video from Mateo all the way to the altar but need the first part to complete.

 

[Kathor1]

Can you perhaps tell us how many people take the Portico of Glory tour at present?

In 2023 the Portico de la Gloria had 120.000 visitors.

Source: https://www.elcorreogallego.es/santiago/2024/03/03/museo-catedral-bate-records-30-98937819.html

 

[Stephan the Painter]

BUT as I say above this is not a big deal to me to have doors open all the time (but may be to others) as all I want is for them to be opened for 10 minutes while a professional photographer takes photospheres in front so I can make a proper "Virtual Entry Video".

I have made the video from Mateo all the way to the altar but need the first part to complete.

I imagine if you would want photos from Foundation Barrie, your best course of action would be to contact them and ask them politely.

Are you trying to create something to sell? Or even just post online. I'm sure you know that you can't just use Internet photos that are copyrighted by the creators. Copyright is created the moment someone takes a photo, even with a mobile phone, even if they don't register it. That action gives you more protection, but the copyright exists already.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Hi Rick (and Peg) - are you saying these photos are only available to view on a mobile phone?

No. Here's a few websites.

Decoding the Portico of Glory - Google Arts & Culture

Discover the details of the iconographic discourse developed by Master Mateo through the figures of his triple arcade.

artsandculture.google.com

Photos of the Portico de la Gloria | spain.info

Image gallery of Santiago Cathedral’s Portico de la Gloria, now renovated and opened to the public in July 2018 | spain.info

www.spain.info

 

[Kathor1]

BUT as I say above this is not a big deal to me to have doors open all the time (but may be to others) as all I want is for them to be opened for 10 minutes while a professional photographer takes photospheres in front so I can make a proper "Virtual Entry Video".

Is that what this is all about? I had to look up photospheres. So it has to do with virtual reality photography and the interactive viewing of panoramic photographs, generally encompassing a 360-degree circle or a spherical view. The results is known as photo sphere.

Call me naive but in this day and age and with virtual modelling and special effects and artificial intelligence and ChatPGT and what have you and the thousands of photographs and videos of the Portico de la Gloria and of the Obradoiro facade of the Cathedral and with the webcam that is running 24/7 and pointing at the two green Cathedral doors there ... why is there even a need for the doors to be open and a guy standing there and recording it? I cannot believe that such a video sequence cannot be produced by some guy in a basement on a personal computer ...

Recently, I watched a video simulation again that was shown several years ago at a conference at the Met in New York. It's on YouTube. It is a full-scale 3D computer reconstruction of the medieval Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela. The viewers can virtually walk through the whole cathedral in any direction they want. Of course, this being the virtual reality of the 12th and 13th century, one enters the cathedral from the Azabachería square, i.e. from the main portal on the north side of the Cathedral.

 

[Kathor1]

BUT as I say above this is not a big deal to me to have doors open all the time (but may be to others) as all I want is for them to be opened for 10 minutes while a professional photographer takes photospheres in front so I can make a proper "Virtual Entry Video".

But what is it that you want to achieve? Show future pilgrims the way into the Cathedral? Pilgrims have not entered the Cathedral from the west facade for what? At least 10 years? Since 2015?

In 2024, they enter the Cathedral:

• through the main portal on the south facade when they wish to visit the Cathedral or attend mass;
• through the main portal on the north facade when they wish to go to pray at/see the silver reliquary downstairs and the huggable statue upstairs;
• through a door of the Gelmirez Palace next to the Cathedral when they wish to view/admire the Portico de la Gloria.

 

[David Tallan]

Below is a number of photos from the 1940s and 1980s iirc.

The idea that the tradition of imposing your hand on the column is a century old tradition of the long distance pilgrim dating back to the Middle Ages is highly questionable. To turn it into an exclusivity for today's pilgrims from say SJPP and further away only - best of luck with lobbying for such a proposal ...

It was, or is, the tradition of the local people, of the middle-aged and elderly women from the countryside, of the Spanish visitors from all over Spain who copied the ritual because they saw it on their TV screens and in their newspapers. It reminds me of kissing the painting of a saint or the statue of a saint - common in Catholic countries like Italy and Spain, less common and even absent in some of the other European countries more to the north. It is part of "folk religion" or "vernacular religion" which can be defined as various forms and expressions of religion that are distinct from the official doctrines and practices of organized religion. One could perhaps say that characteristics and beliefs of folk religion are tolerated by the Church as an institution but not encouraged.

Remember the 2008 interview with the then spokesperson of the Cathedral who later became the Dean? An empty, meaningless rite, out of place in the 21st century, says the Chapter of the Cathedral.

View attachment 175750 View attachment 175751 View attachment 175752

View attachment 175754 View attachment 175755

I think one of the things that made the ritual feel ancient in 1989 was the handprint shaped depression in the column. It seemed like it would take centuries, not just a few decades, for the fingers of pilgrims to wear grooves so deep into the stone.

 

[Kathor1]

fingers of pilgrims

It is getting a little tedious ... pilgrims, pilgrims, pilgrims. It always about pilgrims, and preferably about long-distance pilgrims. Let pilgrims allow to touch it again. Let pilgrims with credentials, or pilgrims with Compostelas, allow to touch it again. The photos from the 1940s and 1980s had this purpose: to show other people than foot pilgrims.

 

[Kathor1]

And, last but not least, let me share this historic(al) cinematic jewel. It was posted online in March 2010. It is a promotional video for the Holy Year 2010. My guess it that it was produced in 2009 when Martin Sheen was in Santiago for other movie business. Look at the green doors - some are closed and others are open and people walk through.

 

[David Tallan]

It is getting a little tedious ... pilgrims, pilgrims, pilgrims. It always about pilgrims, and preferably about long-distance pilgrims. Let pilgrims allow to touch it again. Let pilgrims with credentials, or pilgrims with Compostelas, allow to touch it again. The photos from the 1940s and 1980s had this purpose: to show other people than foot pilgrims.

I apologize. I didn't mean to say that only foot pilgrims from far away did this. Nor did I mean to suggest the practice should be reinstated. I was just suggesting why, as a 20th century pilgrim without the research you have done, I didn't think it was a recent practice.

But even if all the locals followed this practice, I wonder how long it would take to wear the grooves that deep in the stone. And, personally, if the locals had been doing it, I would be surprised if pilgrims from further away (however they got there), didn't follow suit and do it as well.

 

[Kathor1]

Look, I am not debating anything. I am not arguing anything. I am just sharing what I have learnt. It is not a documented medieval practice. The pattern formed by the foliage (or whatever it is) that looks roughly like the five fingers of a hand was known since at least the 17th century (from memory, I really cannot be bothered to look it up yet again). The legend said that it was the hand of God or the hand of Jesus who had pushed the Cathedral building around by 180 degrees. There are at least two such reports from pilgrims from France or the Benelux (not going to look it up yet again), perhaps there are others in other languages - if so I don't know of them and I have not read their reports. These pilgrims were shown around in the Cathedral and that's what they were told. They touched a staff that was supposed to belong to Saint James. I did not check yet again what D. Laffi from Italy reported - he provides lots of details. The practice of actual touching is documented perhaps since the 19th century, as local practice, I am not going to look it up yet again. It is definitely documented since the Holy Year 1920 because a photographer with a shop in Santiago took a now iconic picture and marketed it as postcards. It became more widely known and practiced since then because people all over Spain saw more and more photos of hand on pillar in their daily newspapers during the Holy Years since 1920.

 

[Camo]

And, last but not least, let me share this historic(al) cinematic jewel. It was posted online in March 2010. It is a promotional video for the Holy Year 2010. My guess it that it was produced in 2009 when Martin Sheen was in Santiago for other movie business. Look at the green doors - some are closed and others are open and people walk through.

Bravo here is Ramon Estevez explaining "the land of my ancestors in Galicia", which is the clue as to reasons behind the plot in The Way, ie the disgust of Ramon's father for changing his name to Sheen (and why Emilio did not).

I made a Web-App of the journey his ancestors would have taken to Santiago de Compostela from Salceda de Caselas which I tagged as Camino Estevez but as most of it follows the Camino from Tui I am very aware I must not post a link here, but I can supply it to individuals if asked nicely.

 

[Camo]

No. Here's a few websites.

Decoding the Portico of Glory - Google Arts & Culture

Discover the details of the iconographic discourse developed by Master Mateo through the figures of his triple arcade.

artsandculture.google.com

Photos of the Portico de la Gloria | spain.info

Image gallery of Santiago Cathedral’s Portico de la Gloria, now renovated and opened to the public in July 2018 | spain.info

www.spain.info

Thanks for these Rick (and Peg) - It seems strange it mentions nothing below the feet of Jesus, ie the person this is mostly about who "owns" this Cathedral who is St James with his arms wide open in welcome (in my view) to ALL pilgrims (real and virtual).

My own place in all this is I am stricken with the curse of old age (and associated health issues) and poverty so can no longer be a real pilgrim but can create a virtual experience for myself, which is why I started this thread ie I am presently unable to complete my "virtual entrance" because of lack of source material

 

[Camo]

I imagine if you would want photos from Foundation Barrie, your best course of action would be to contact them and ask them politely.

Are you trying to create something to sell? Or even just post online. I'm sure you know that you can't just use Internet photos that are copyrighted by the creators. Copyright is created the moment someone takes a photo, even with a mobile phone, even if they don't register it. That action gives you more protection, but the copyright exists already.

Thanks for advice Stephan, but I am only interested in working with photospheres preferably my own but as there are 300 billion in Google Maps from Google and others I use what is available for whatever project I am working on (Camino or other), so I am well aware that before I publish every Street View Panorama there is a warning sign that by doing so it becomes "public property" - so it is "share and share alike" on Google which is most refreshing.

 

[Camo]

Look at the green doors - some are closed and others are open and people walk through

Yes indeed people are walking up the steps and into the small door on the left of the big doors (that I seem to remember were open for the movie), so directly to Portico of Glory. As you say it is not a movie promo but a Galicia promo but he says buin Camino (or whatever it is) and has a backpack (same North Face promotional one as in movie?) but with different badges on the back and no tin with ashes.

Looks like he is "multi-promotional"

 

[dick bird]

The original question has been answered and now this thread seems to be going round in circles.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Call me naive but in this day and age and with virtual modelling and special effects and artificial intelligence and ChatPGT and what have you and the thousands of photographs and videos of the Portico de la Gloria and of the Obradoiro facade of the Cathedral and with the webcam that is running 24/7 and pointing at the two green Cathedral doors there ... why is there even a need for the doors to be open and a guy standing there and recording it? I cannot believe that such a video sequence cannot be produced by some guy in a basement on a personal computer ...

You mean something like this?

VSim: Flying through the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela

Visit the post for more.

www.wendyperlakurtz.com

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Bravo here is Ramon Estevez explaining "the land of my ancestors in Galicia", which is the clue as to reasons behind the plot in The Way, ie the disgust of Ramon's father for changing his name to Sheen (and why Emilio did not).

YouTube just threw up a recommended video for me (I hope this was just chance). It has Martin Sheen (his stage name) explaining that his legal name is still Ramon Estevez. The video's owner doesn't allow it to be embedded on other websites so view video h_oMkQY2ico at YouTube.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Thanks for advice Stephan, but I am only interested in working with photospheres preferably my own but as there are 300 billion in Google Maps from Google and others I use what is available for whatever project I am working on (Camino or other), so I am well aware that before I publish every Street View Panorama there is a warning sign that by doing so it becomes "public property" - so it is "share and share alike" on Google which is most refreshing.

OK, that makes sense that all that Google stuff is open source. They could never police it. I hope you find what you need. Please post in this thread when you create a finished project. I'd love to see it.

 

[Camo]

You mean something like this?

VSim: Flying through the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela

Visit the post for more.

www.wendyperlakurtz.com

That is an attempt to recreate a pilgrim experience from 12 th century and is historically interesting. What I do is create what is there now for people (like me) who can't GET there any more.

 

[Camo]

YouTube just threw up a recommended video for me (I hope this was just chance). It has Martin Sheen (his stage name) explaining that his legal name is still Ramon Estevez. The video's owner doesn't allow it to be embedded on other websites so view video h_oMkQY2ico at YouTube.

Then it threw up an even more interesting BBC interview
here