The Pilgrim’s Guide to Etiquette

[Camino Chrissy]

Chrissy, that's what @TravellingMan22 said?

You do know that 'K' is a common abbreviation for thousand?

You are correct, Peter, but I'd forgotten. Still, I think it should be left off the forum if not referring to kilometers.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

You are correct, Peter, but I'd forgotten. Still, I think it should be left off the forum if not referring to kilometers.

Chrissy, I have a great deal of respect for you but I struggle to understand your reasoning in this case. I use it all the time. For example if I was to talk about the price of something - say my car. If somebody inquired about the cost I would simply say '15 k'.

Ditto in a professional environment. For example on my resume : "Achieved $300K reduction in department spending ".

There are many more examples where I would not spell out thousand, but rather use the abbreviation 'K'.

In fact about the only time I wouldn't use it is if I was describing a number of kilometres. I wouldn't say 3K kilometer for example. That just sounds weird

Perhaps this is just another of those cultural differences that we so frequently come across.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Peter, I do agree. At home in the USA I occasionally use it, too, often when referring to four digit figures, and so it doesn't seem odd at all. I personally have never seen it used on the forum in any threads I have read. The Camino Frances at 800k if used like I do at home would mean 800,000.

 

[VNwalking]

Let us imagine a fictive pilgrim who was born and raised in Scotland and now lives in Wales. Describing him, I would not hesitate to say: El es de Inglaterra

Oooooo. Good thing you'd say that out of earshot. Scotland, Wales, and England are seriously different.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I wouldn't say 3K kilometer for example.

3 megameters then?

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

. The Camino Frances at 800k if used like I do at home would mean 800,000.

Ditto, but @TravellingMan22 said "3K miles" !

Describing him, I would not hesitate to say: El es de Inglaterra. Il est anglais. Der ist aus England.

Geez, I wouldn't! Much as I like my Western brethren, that's as bad as calling a Kiwi an Aussie!

The Scot's have a separate Parliament for a damn good reason - they do not consider themselves English.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Ditto, but @TravellingMan22 said "3K miles" !

I hear ya, and he did not make a mistake, but at the moment I read it I probably hadn't had my morning cupp'a Joe yet. "That's my story and I'm stickin' to it".

 

[Kirkie]

Ditto, but @TravellingMan22 said "3K miles" !


Geez, I wouldn't! Much as I like my Western brethren, that's as bad as calling a Kiwi an Aussie!

The Scotts have a separate Parliament for a damn good reason they do not consider themselves English.

Nor do we have 2 ts Relax...

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Nor do we have 2 ts Relax...

@Kirkie, I assume you possibly mean...
tea, and tea.

 

[WalkingInGers]

For sure, I actually speak Spanish pretty well, and Spaniards on the Camino will ask me where I am from (not, what is your nationality). When I say Estados Unidos someone will usually say (in Spanish and with a sense of humor), You cannot be American. They do not speak Spanish. And you have a Mexican accent. Much laughter follows. If anyone is REALLY interested, I'll tell the lengthy tale of how I came to speak kinda odd-sounding Spanish, even dropping Fidel Castro's name.

Vero?

 

[El Cascayal]

even dropping Fidel Castro's name.

Eeek!

 

[Goyo]

That's a change in the last 35 years. I'm not saying it isn't true, just that it used to be different in Spain. I remember when I was living in Madrid in '89/'90, being told many times that "Americano" meant anyone from the Americas and the correct term for someone from Los Estados Unidos was "norteamericano". No one understood why that bothered me, a Canadian.

Some of my Canadian friends in México don’t like being called “gringos”, believing that that term should be reserved for us who hail from entre las dos fronteras, la de Canadá y la de los Estados Unidos

When I was asked where I’m from I said america. Then I was always,always asked from where, so I said Arizona. It led to whole conversations because they usually wanted to pin it down. I’m always amazed how familiar people from other parts of the world are with geography.

How true, konnie. Unlike many from the US who are, sadly, geographically challenged

 

[C clearly]

The Camino Frances at 800k if used like I do at home would mean 800,000.

You are right. When people refer to the Camino as being 800k long, their error is in using the wrong abbreviation for kilometer. The correct short form is ''km", for 1000 m. You need to deduce that 800k must mean 800 km, because 800k otherwise would have no units and we would have to ask "800k what?"

 

[TravellingMan22]

For sure, I actually speak Spanish pretty well, and Spaniards on the Camino will ask me where I am from (not, what is your nationality). When I say Estados Unidos someone will usually say (in Spanish and with a sense of humor), You cannot be American. They do not speak Spanish. And you have a Mexican accent. Much laughter follows. If anyone is REALLY interested, I'll tell the lengthy tale of how I came to speak kinda odd-sounding Spanish, even dropping Fidel Castro's name.

Well almost as many residents of USA speak Spanish as residents of Spain speak Spanish.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

You are right. When people refer to the Camino as being 800k long, their error is in using the wrong abbreviation for kilometer. The correct short form is ''km", for 1000 m. You need to deduce that 800k must mean 800 km, because 800k otherwise would have no units and we would have to ask "800k what?"

Thanks, good point. I will personally try to use "km" from now on when abbreviating kilometers on this forum instead of the "k" the majority of us tend to use.

 

[C clearly]

instead of the "k" the majority of us tend to use.

Maybe true for the majority of Americans (that is, of course, referring to United Statesians), who are not used to the metric system.

 

[Goyo]

You are right. When people refer to the Camino as being 800k long, their error is in using the wrong abbreviation for kilometer. The correct short form is ''km", for 1000 m. You need to deduce that 800k must mean 800 km, because 800k otherwise would have no units and we would have to ask "800k what?"

Yep, gotta keep up with the abbreviations so as not to confuse the easily confused, como yo. I like the jargon/slang term used by the US military (and others?) that refers to a kilometer as a “klick”. I dunno, something about the sound of “I walked 25 klicks yesterday…” appeals to me

 

[Lynn C O'Hara]

Indeed. Familiar with Bangor, Maine, which back in the day was often used by airlines who made a ‘tech stop’ to refuel after crossing the North Atlantic during strong headwinds, before continuing on.

As a retired flight attendant, been there, done that a few times!

 

[VNwalking]

When people refer to the Camino as being 800k long, their error is in using the wrong abbreviation for kilometer.

Maybe true for the majority of Americans (that is, of course, referring to United Statesians), who are not used to the metric system.

Perhaps - but any American (from the USA) who runs road races learns pdq what 5K and 10K are and what they feel like - and learns to think about those distances in kms. Many also figure out that 5 miles are roughly 8K. (The abbreviated version with an upper case K is usual for road races).

That may also be the genesis of 800k rather than 800 kms.

 

[DeansFamily]

As far as pilgrim etiquette goes, the old adage "do unto other as you would have them do unto you" (as drilled into me by my wonderful 1st class teacher Mrs Wilson did) may help. Many people has lost the common sense and consideration of how their actions affect everyone around them. A few self centred folk downright don't care. On Camino we always worry about negatively disturbing or upsetting others around us. It's not that hard to do.

 

[Dani7]

Soooooo!! Where are we up to now with the pilgrim guide to etiquette did we come to a consensus.

I agree wholeheartedly with @DeansFamily. There needs only one thing to be consistently kind and thoughtful. That first grade teacher sounds like one of the greats.

 

[JabbaPapa]

You are right. When people refer to the Camino as being 800k long, their error is in using the wrong abbreviation for kilometer. The correct short form is ''km", for 1000 m. You need to deduce that 800k must mean 800 km, because 800k otherwise would have no units and we would have to ask "800k what?"

K *is* the unit.

It's the same one as the military klick/click.

 

[Kathar1na]

Oooooo. Good thing you'd say that out of earshot. Scotland, Wales, and England are seriously different.

England / Inglaterra / Angleterre is a pars pro toto for both the UK or Great Britain in numerous other languages than English - at least in the few that I know . Not only in spoken language but also in written form. El rey ingles is Charles III and your audience will understand it and there would be no need to explain it any further.

Geez, I wouldn't! Much as I like my Western brethren, that's as bad as calling a Kiwi an Aussie! The Scot's have a separate Parliament for a damn good reason - they do not consider themselves English.

It tried to point out, with an attempt at humour but not very successfully, to consider one's target audience in communication and not be a wiseass . Nearly all the comments in this context were about what the poster wants to hear or what the poster would say or what the poster gets annoyed about. In a weak effort to make the thread drift back to its topic (hopeless at this point I think) I tried to focus on what the listener needs to hear to understand or what is ok for him or her to understand. i.e. americano is totally ok for somebody who is a US citizen.

 

[Kathar1na]

Perhaps - but any American (from the USA) who runs road races learns pdq what 5K and 10K are and what they feel like - and learns to think about those distances in kms. Many also figure out that 5 miles are roughly 8K. (The abbreviated version with an upper case K is usual for road races).

You make a good point. In English I would say that I participated in a "twenty kay run" yesterday but I would not say the equivalent in the other languages I know. There I would say Kilometer, kilomètres, kilometros. We are taught the standard SI abbreviations at primary school: km, dm, cm, mm. Nobody would use k, d, c or m instead. I have only ever seen k as an abbreviation for kilometres/kilometers on this forum in some posters' comments.

In spoken language, when you use kilo, at least in German and Spanish (I checked the RAE), you mean kilogram (kg) and not kilometer (km). In other contexts, kilo or k stand for one thousand but we all know that.

 

[Kirkie]

The OP is otherwise occupied, so meantime we can all play around with the notion of etiquette. Early on in the thread there was a suggestion that some might not understand the meaning.
Hmm. Context.
In Spanish, it is (so far as I know) simply the price tag - stop! You can't take the item back if you lose that piece of identification!
Reading the last few posts, a song came to mind. I just looked it up, and it would not be appropriate to refer to it here because it relates to what is now political, but it echoes the notion that Rome burned while the emperor played his violin.
(The song in question links a Scottish musician and the continent of Australia, for anyone who is curious. I will not be drawn on this thread, pm if you need or care to know what I refer to.)
@DeansFamily hit the nail on the head.
Focussing on recent posts re measurements, how thankful am I that the Imperial system has been overrun by the far simpler metric! I care nothing for the fine details. I know how long it takes me to walk the distance that approximates to 5/8ths of a mile!
Or have I got my maths wrong again?
5 of the Imperial measure is approx 8 of the Metric.
Now, walk tall...however you measure, but watch your shadow. Don't block the sun for your neighbour!

 

[Kathar1na]

There's quite a list of potential subheadings too:

Dormitory: noise/quiet time, light, packing, Rucksacks, alarms etc
Kitchen : fridges, dishes...
Bathroom (shower, toilet, teeth, shaving)
Washing: sink, machines, line, driers

Plus of course you could also cover factors outside the albergue:

Toileting (on trail)
Greeting/ordering etiquette in bars and cafes
Use of toilets in a bar/cafe
Rucksack " " "
Poles (tips!)

And that's just off the top of my head, I'm sure others will have many more ideas.

I scrolled through the 100+ comments and I think that your post is one of the few that made an attempt at answering the OP's invitation.

If I were to draw up such an "etiquette" list I would concentrate on things that are not immediately obvious to the well-meaning new Camino peregrino, for example pointing out, without too much indignation and anger, that plastic bags rustle and disturb others, that backpacks must not be put on beds (and why: bedbugs), that cleansing wipes do not disintegrate in the open and that even toilet paper does not disintegrate quickly (in the context of using it after peeing), that one should buy a drink or offer €0.50 or €1 when using the toilet facility in a bar, that metal points of poles cause a clicking sound that can annoy those who live in houses on the Camino, that you say "Buenos dias" or "Buenas" when entering a shop, that the light you use to find the way to the toilet at night can disturb other sleepers and so on.

Of course there are people with bad behaviour but I believe that the overwhelming majority does not belong to this category and when they commit this kind of "etiquette" errors - which may be obvious as errors to walkers and hikes with experience of communal living - they do so out of ignorance and not because they are "bad apples".

 

[sun is shining]

Not sure if this falls under etiquette but it’s a nice thing to use the upper bunk if you are able to / don’t mind / arrive early and leave the lower bunk for the ones that arrive later (and might be much more exhausted than you).

On our recent Camino Primitivo the municipals would fill up towards the end of the day and the last arriving strugglers where always very happy to find lower bunks available and the upper bunks occupied by younger / fitter pilgrims that don’t mind climbing up the steps.

 

[Kiwi-family]

The OP spent some of her walk to Villar de Mazarife this morning thinking about “k”s. Which, incidentally, is pretty off topic lol
I reached the conclusion I might use “k” in spoken communication, but would always use km when writing. We might be witnessing an example of language shift, which does usually happen in spoken language first. Interesting but largely irrelevant to my original question!
It took me so long to wade through this thread that I may have lost interest in the original question!!

 

[TravellingMan22]

Thank you! I hope I meet you on a Camino. I love a lower bunk (and hate top bunks), am a very slow walker but love to walk into the early evening when very few people are about and like to knock off a minimum of 30kms. I always look a sorry sight down to about 1 to 2 kms and hobbling in. Never get a bottom bunk but happy to get a bunk at all where I invariably arrive at about 1800-2000. I always think there should be two tier pricing, where logistically possible. I would happily pay say €5 extra for a lower bunk. I think it’s a revenue opportunity that hostel owners are missing.

Never been offered a lower bunk by a fellow walker - I guess it’s late anyway. Most folks are self absorbed which I totally appreciate!

Not sure if this falls under etiquette but it’s a nice thing to use the upper bunk if you are able to / don’t mind / arrive early and leave the lower bunk for the ones that arrive later (and might be much more exhausted than you).

On our recent Camino Primitivo the municipals would fill up towards the end of the day and the last arriving strugglers where always very happy to find lower bunks available and the upper bunks occupied by younger / fitter pilgrims that don’t mind climbing up the steps.

 

[dick bird]

“If a farmer bought 3 bushels of wheat for £1..17s..6d, how much would it have cost him if he’d bought a cwt?” Now you know why Britain abandoned the imperial system and decimalised its currency back in the 70s. And why my generation (the ones that didn’t die before we got old) are very good at doing sums in our head.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I always think there should be two tier pricing, where logistically possible. I would happily pay say €5 extra for a lower bunk. I think it’s a revenue opportunity that hostel owners are missing.

Now that’s quite a thought! Imposed perhaps during busy periods. No one is ever going to complain if you charge less!

 

[TravellingMan22]

Now that’s quite a thought! Imposed perhaps during busy periods. No one is ever going to complain if you charge less!

Well I’m a tightwad and would pay €5 additional for a lower bunk! So if the pricing was €12 a bunk, I was wouid happily pay €17. Adds some complexity but am always surprised the big hostel players in Europe (A & O, Menninger) don’t do it, or at least trial it!

 

[David Tallan]

Well I’m a tightwad and would pay €5 additional for a lower bunk! So if the pricing was €12 a bunk, I was wouid happily pay €17. Adds some complexity but am always surprised the big hostel players in Europe (A & O, Menninger) don’t do it, or at least trial it!

In the donarivos, you can always feel free to donate more when you get a lower bunk.

 

[TravellingMan22]

In the donarivos, you can always feel free to donate more when you get a lower bunk.

Of course yes but I am talking the guarantee of a lower bunk, rather than paying more if you happen to get one.

 

[Pafayac]

Of course yes but I am talking the guarantee of a lower bunk, rather than paying more if you happen to get one.

In the donativos, feel free to pay more if you can afford it.

 

[VNwalking]

Of course yes but I am talking the guarantee of a lower bunk, rather than paying more if you happen to get one.

One doesn't pay in a donativo, one offers, donates, gives - or whatever word you prefer for freely (and hopefully generously) donating for whatever you've received. It's a very different economy than the contractual one we're used to.

 

[TravellingMan22]

In the donativos, feel free to pay more if you can afford it.

I would of course. But I would be happy to offer that upfront as a lower bunk is imporant and sadly wishful thinking for me. Just a thought. I paid €7 for a more advanced seat on a flight last night. I didn’t want bulkhead or exit row just a bit futher forward.

 

[TravellingMan22]

One doesn't pay in a donativo, one offers, donates, gives - or whatever word you prefer for freely (and hopefully generously) donating for whatever you've received. It's a very different economy than the contractual one we're used to.

Sure I wasn’t expressly talking donativos. That’s a different game. Just something that would help me and offer some extra revenue.

 

[VNwalking]

Just something that would help me and offer some extra revenue.

Not a bad idea. Just so it doesn't lead us down the slippery slope of paying extra for everything, like airlines do.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Not a bad idea. Just so it doesn't lead us down the slippery slope of paying extra for everything, like airlines do.

Hmmm, what would Mike O'Leary do in this situation...

Locker's - extra.

Showers - metered to 3 minutes - pay for extra time ( actually, perhaps a good idea anyway, Spain has major fresh water issues).

Access to kitchen - extra

Individual shoe/pole locks, 50c

Blankets - extra (should be anyway)

Non snorers room - extra. ,

 

[TravellingMan22]

Thanks - we better not get into airline modular pricing! We would definately disagree on that!!!

Not a bad idea. Just so it doesn't lead us down the slippery slope of paying extra for everything, like airlines do.

 

[lalaone]

In most cases, I think of etiquette as formal, like manners for high society. Like…how to set and use table settings for a seven-course meal. How to dance a waltz. When to wear white gloves. When to remove a top-hat. Pretty far from most Camino experiences, which gives the word a nice creative tension here.

Like “good manners,” maybe “etiquette” really comes down to the same thing in any context - being courteous, making the other people around you comfortable. Perhaps pilgrim etiquette even has its analogues to more formal versions. Like…offering a bottom bunk becomes akin to offering a seat. Leaving no trace of TP or wipes, akin to placing your used napkin properly when leaving the dinner table. Avoiding using strong scents or ointments in the dorm, akin to not wearing too much perfume or cologne.

 

[CalgaryLynn]

In the past few months I have been introduced to The Arrogant Worms. I listened to this song just last week. Sounds apposite...

More silly Canadians!! We really should be more serious........

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

In most cases, I think of etiquette as formal, like manners for high society. Like…how to set and use table settings for a seven-course meal. How to dance a waltz. When to wear white gloves. When to remove a top-hat. Pretty far from most Camino experiences, which gives the word a nice creative tension here.

Like “good manners,” maybe “etiquette” really comes down to the same thing in any context - being courteous, making the other people around you comfortable. Perhaps pilgrim etiquette even has its analogues to more formal versions. Like…offering a bottom bunk becomes akin to offering a seat. Leaving no trace of TP or wipes, akin to placing your used napkin properly when leaving the dinner table. Avoiding using strong scents or ointments in the dorm, akin to not wearing too much perfume or cologne.

I think that's part of the problem, that many think of 'etiquette' the way you've mentioned. (And it is of course one example of the meaning). Let's face it, it is an old-fashioned word in this day and age.

Is that perhaps why not many have actually answered the OPs ( admittedly tongue and cheek) original post?

To me 'etiquette' is simply the customary code of polite behaviour in our society, or among members of a particular group - such as pilgrims.

I very much like your analogies - because they to me are examples of good Pilgrim etiquette.

And as @Kathar1na says in her post #126 above , many 'make errors out of ignorance'.

Perhaps the OP's original post should be taken a little more literally.....

 

[Bala]

Perhaps pilgrim etiquette even has its analogues to more formal versions. Like…offering a bottom bunk becomes akin to offering a seat. Leaving no trace of TP or wipes, akin to placing your used napkin properly when leaving the dinner table. Avoiding using strong scents or ointments in the dorm, akin to not wearing too much perfume or cologne.

Great analogies. True pilgrim etiquette.

 

[TravellingMan22]

I just saw this at the hostel I am currently staying at (non Camino) - no fish, and booze is ok but not too much! Actually can’t believe there has not been a big debate about cooking fish on here. I love fish but the smell!!! Or maybe I missed it!

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I just saw this at the hostel I am currently staying at (non Camino) - no fish, and booze is ok but not too much! Actually can’t believe there has not been a big debate about cooking fish on here. I love fish but the smell!!! Or maybe I missed it! View attachment 171488

In my experience most hostels have similar rules although I must say that when I was managing a hostel they were somewhat more stringent than these. Bar the fish rule!

Like you I have a love/ hate relationship with fish, and it's smell.
Another smell that is all pervasive is curry. A Fijian Indian acquaintance of mine had a cook station inside his garage because he did not like the smell throughout his entire house. In Fiji of course the kitchen area is normally completely separate, so I understand where he was coming from.

The best smells I ever came across was in a hostel immediately above a bakery in Canada. Oh my gosh, I woke up hungry every morning!

The favourite rule that I ever came across in a hostel was:

"Violence in any form will result in your immediate expulsion from the hostel with extreme prejudice. The management will not be responsible for your medical bills or funeral costs".

A little beyond 'good etiquette', of course...

 

[dougfitz]

“If a farmer bought 3 bushels of wheat for £1..17s..6d, how much would it have cost him if he’d bought a cwt?” Now you know why Britain abandoned the imperial system and decimalised its currency back in the 70s. And why my generation (the ones that didn’t die before we got old) are very good at doing sums in our head.

Sorry, but I couldn't do that in my head, but £1 3s 4d (for a long cwt, not a short one!) and using the Canadian standard weight for a bushel of weight wheat

edit: damned autocorrect!!

 

[TravellingMan22]

In my experience most hostels have similar rules although I must say that when I was managing a hostel they were somewhat more stringent than these. Bar the fish rule!

Like you I have a love/ hate relationship with fish, and it's smell.
Another smell that is all pervasive is curry. A Fijian Indian acquaintance of mine had a cook station inside his garage because he did not like the smell throughout his entire house. In Fiji of course the kitchen area is normally completely separate, so I understand where he was coming from.

The best smells I ever came across was in a hostel immediately above a bakery in Canada. Oh my gosh, I woke up hungry every morning!

The favourite rule that I ever came across in a hostel was:

"Violence in any form will result in your immediate expulsion from the hostel with extreme prejudice. The management will not be responsible for your medical bills or funeral costs".

A little beyond 'good etiquette', of course...

Indeed. I think most rules go unspoken-but the fish one did need spelling out as loads of folks do cook fish in hostels! Not as much as Pasta though! I always feel very inadequate in hostels as they alway seem to attach good cooks and guitar players!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I think most rules go unspoken-but the fish one did need spelling out as loads of folks do cook fish in hostels!

TM22, are the hostels you have frequented over the years with all the smelly fish cooking been located on or near oceans?

 

[TravellingMan22]

Well I am a firm believer in the old adage ‘only eat fish when you can see the sea’ although it can complicate my other adage around restaurant food ‘the better the view, the worse the food’.


So I do compromise my principals if there is money to be saved, and to be fair I am not too much of a fish connoisseur, though I love it. I bought a can of tuna last night and ate it in my room last night ( before I saw the rules on eating in the room, and no fish whatsoever, though that wouldn’t stand up in a court of law!).

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Well I am a firm believer in the old adage ‘only eat fish when you can see the sea’ although it can complicate my other adage around restaurant food ‘the better the view, the worse the food’.

So I do compromise my principals if there is money to be saved, and to be fair I am not too much of a fish connoisseur, though I love it. I bought a can of tuna last night and ate it in my room last night ( before I saw the rules on eating in the room, and no fish whatsoever, though that wouldn’t stand up in a court of law!).

I like your two "old adages" and have sometimes found them to be true myself over the years when traveling/vacationing.

Rather funny that you broke two of the hostels rules before you realized what you'd done.

 

[Kirkie]

For @TravellingMan22 : if you ever hit the Emerald Isle, let me know. I use a wonderful fish shop. Will be delighted to poach you some salmon, or simply put down a few rollmops, or roast a bit of hake... take care.

Edit: so sorry, this is way off the OP!

 

[TravellingMan22]

For @TravellingMan22 : if you ever hit the Emerald Isle, let me know. I use a wonderful fish shop. Will be delighted to poach you some salmon, or simply put down a few rollmops, or roast a bit of hake... take care.

Edit: so sorry, this is way off the OP!

Wow thank you! Very kind and will hold you to that! The Emerald Isle is very near the top of my travel list. Both my parents were born there but have only been a couple of times… it just hasn’t happened and daftly get attracted by places further away! A friend and I are looking to hire a camper van and get around a bit!!

 

[TravellingMan22]

I like your two "old adages" and have sometimes found them to be true myself over the years when traveling/vacationing.

Rather funny that you broke two of the hostels rules before you realized what you'd done.

Yes I am normally fairly adherent esp. as the folks here are so nice. It will be pasta in the common area tonight!

 

[GuyA]

I have been lurking absolutely mesmerized by this entertaining thread for a while. Disclaimer: I do NOT intend to offend and well my sense of humour is what it is...hopefully your funny bone is in some way tickled! Also I have been in touch with the OP and have her permission to go off topic . Note I had to Google OP to find out what this means...

Ok my hypothesis was that this thread got a touch off topic early and fast however this was simply an impression. I have been assisting Rachael (OP) with a few graphs as she winds her way merrily along the Camino Frances...by the way her Blog is great fun. I then had the bright idea to graph the 156 replies posted to date...making my own assumptions as to whether an individual reply was on/off topic.

Attached are the results to date...show a VERY fast positive start to being On Topic...for the first 3 replies (note the first was Rachael’s which was considered on topic...one of her later posts was considered off topic ) and then has stayed consistently in the 80%+ range Off topic. Remember it’s just a graph for fun!

Have a great day!

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

…as I was saying, as I walked I thought up some points for an etiquette guide. Not wanting to direct your thinking any further, I thought I’d simply ask what you would include in such a guide!

On topic: A title.

And would you give me permission to use your ideas?

On topic: Certainly.

I ... had the bright idea to graph the 156 replies posted to date...making my own assumptions as to whether an individual reply was on/off topic.

Off topic: I'm hoping that you miss a night's sleep figuring out how to classify this post Guy.

 

[GuyA]

Oh my post is definitely off topic so no sleep loss there! So is this one!

 

[WalkinRon]

Thank you @GuyA ! I love it!! On this forum, I noticed long ago that I learn as much, if not more, from the off topic replies...

As they say in the software biz: "It's a feature, not a bug."

 

[Kirkie]

I have been lurking absolutely mesmerized by this entertaining thread for a while. Disclaimer: I do NOT intend to offend and well my sense of humour is what it is...hopefully your funny bone is in some way tickled! Also I have been in touch with the OP and have her permission to go off topic . Note I had to Google OP to find out what this means...

Ok my hypothesis was that this thread got a touch off topic early and fast however this was simply an impression. I have been assisting Rachael (OP) with a few graphs as she winds her way merrily along the Camino Frances...by the way her Blog is great fun. I then had the bright idea to graph the 156 replies posted to date...making my own assumptions as to whether an individual reply was on/off topic.

Attached are the results to date...show a VERY fast positive start to being On Topic...for the first 3 replies (note the first was Rachael’s which was considered on topic...one of her later posts was considered off topic ) and then has stayed consistently in the 80%+ range Off topic. Remember it’s just a graph for fun!

Have a great day!


View attachment 171526

I do like your sense of humour. Off topic?
My final algebra mark when I was about 15 years old, before I gave up and focussed on plain arithmetic was less than 15%. I needed a maths subject to get to college...it worked. Long before calculators. I can still add up mentally.
So, is algebra even relevant? Geometry was even worse.
Anyway, fair play for your fun elevation of the thread, and Rachael can smirk away knowing she has lifted some of the doom and gloom into a light hearted play of ideas!

 

[Kiwi-family]

Not at all @Kirkie - it’s all @GuyA !! All I did was make it harder for him NOT to post his grand graph than to take the risk of being excommunicated from the forum!

 

[Magg5788]

Language etiquette: Being from the US, I learned to stop calling myself an American when trying to speak Spanish on the Camino. I did not know how to make Estados Unidos into an adjective, so americana was the only thing I could think of. I was corrected several times, as America is only a country and not even a single continent. It probably sounded arrogant, and I had no idea, so now I say something like norteamericana to avoid seeming rude. I still can't actually pronounce estadounidense but that would be another option.

Edit: It seems safe to disregard this advice, per many comments below.

As an American who's traveled extensively, I'll say that I've noticed saying "americana" tends to strike a chord more often with Latinos than Spaniards, and it makes sense. In English we don't have a word for "United Statesian" but it exists in Spanish, and folk from Latin America are completely in the right to point out that they are also "americanos", so it can come off as a bit arrogant for someone from the US claiming the term "americano" as just their own country.

When I lived in Chile I quickly learned to use "estadounidense", but now that I'm living in Spain, I've noticed that Spaniards tend to say "americano" or "norte americano" when referring to someone from the United States or Canada, and they'll use specific countries or "latino" for everywhere else, regardless of if it's actually correct or not. To avoid any confusion or hurt feelings, I usually say "Soy de Estados Unidos" or "I'm from the United States".

TLDR: When speaking in Spanish, try to make an effort to use the correct terminology. When speaking in English, do what you want.

 

[Kirkie]

As an American who's traveled extensively, I'll say that I've noticed saying "americana" tends to strike a chord more often with Latinos than Spaniards, and it makes sense. In English we don't have a word for "United Statesian" but it exists in Spanish, and folk from Latin America are completely in the right to point out that they are also "americanos", so it can come off as a bit arrogant for someone from the US claiming the term "americano" as just their own country.

When I lived in Chile I quickly learned to use "estadounidense", but now that I'm living in Spain, I've noticed that Spaniards tend to say "americano" or "norte americano" when referring to someone from the United States or Canada, and they'll use specific countries or "latino" for everywhere else, regardless of if it's actually correct or not. To avoid any confusion or hurt feelings, I usually say "Soy de Estados Unidos" or "I'm from the United States".

TLDR: When speaking in Spanish, try to make an effort to use the correct terminology. When speaking in English, do what you want.

I thought I would try to be autonomous and look up the abbreviation, but really, I am none the wiser. What does it mean?

TLDR

1. abbreviation for too long; didn't read: used to comment on something that…

dictionary.cambridge.org

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I thought I would try to be autonomous and look up the abbreviation, but really, I am none the wiser. What does it mean?

TLDR

1. abbreviation for too long; didn't read: used to comment on something that…

dictionary.cambridge.org

Effectively, it means 'to sum it up', or 'in short'.
It's often used on social media when people sum up their thoughts on a complicated subject.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Effectively, it means 'to sum it up', or 'in short'.
It's often used on social media when people sum up their thoughts on a complicated subject.

Interesting. In the USofA for the last ten+ years I hear family and friends say "to make a long story short", but it never is and they go on and on.
I know better than to say that for myself; I'm not good at sharing cliff notes and summing up.

 

[Magg5788]

I thought I would try to be autonomous and look up the abbreviation, but really, I am none the wiser. What does it mean?

TLDR

1. abbreviation for too long; didn't read: used to comment on something that…

dictionary.cambridge.org

Sorry, it just means: "in summary" and then it gives a brief summary of what was just said.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Originally from email or post exchanges like:

A posts a long story.
B replies "Too long; didn't read."
A supplies the summary.

Gets converted to:

A posts a long story and then adds "TL;DR" and a summary.

 

[C clearly]

What does it mean?

TL;DR

It is one of my favourite acronyms, particularly with the punctuation.

 

[trecile]

It is one of my favourite acronyms, particularly with the punctuation.

Same

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

It is one of my favourite acronyms, particularly with the punctuation.

The semi-colon sort of acts like a wink and a smile doesn't it? And the whole expression agrees with that; "I'm with you. I didn't do my best."

 

[dougfitz]

It is one of my favourite acronyms, particularly with the punctuation.

Really? How do you pronounce it?

 

[David Tallan]

Really? How do you pronounce it?

I pronounce it tee-el-dee-ar.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

It is one of my favourite acronyms, particularly with the punctuation.

Really? How do you pronounce it?

I pronounce it tee-el-dee-ar.

Yes. Technically TL;DR is an initialism. The Center for Disease Control has an explanation (but with examples for its employees).

An abbreviation is a truncated word; an acronym is made up of parts of the phrase it stands for and is pronounced as a word (ELISA, AIDS, GABA); an initialism is an acronym that is pronounced as individual letters (DNA, RT-PCR).

 

[Kiwi-family]

If we are not careful @GuyA will be graphing all the different directions this thread has taken!

 

[Bernice Matthews]

As I walked to Calzadilla de la Cueza today (long straight road), probably prompted by noisy torch-bearing pilgrims who got up at 4:20am (5 o’clock is bad enough, but seriously? We couldn’t leave until 6 so what were they going to do for an hour and a half? Oh, that’s right, rustle plastic bags lol)
…as I was saying, as I walked I thought up some points for an etiquette guide. Not wanting to direct your thinking any further, I thought I’d simply ask what you would include in such a guide! And would you give me permission to use your ideas?

Camino etiquette has gone out the window with all the 'plastic pilgrims'. I'm on my 7th Camino and it's disgusting. They have all the gear and no idea, they're ignorant and have'nt got a clue. I'm so glad I experienced the true pilgrimage from 2015 - 2019.

 

[dick bird]

I think it was the French writer Blaise Pascal who apologised to his friend for writing such a long letter as he didn’t have time to write a short one.

 

[C clearly]

It is one of my favourite acronyms

Really? How do you pronounce it?

Technically TL;DR is an initialism.

Well, it is most certainly my favourite inirialism.

 

[C clearly]

Camino etiquette has gone out the window with all the 'plastic pilgrims'. I'm on my 7th Camino and it's disgusting. They have all the gear and no idea, they're ignorant and have'nt got a clue. I'm so glad I experienced the true pilgrimage from 2015 - 2019.

Buen camino to you, too.

 

[GuyA]

If we are not careful @GuyA will be graphing all the different directions this thread has taken!

I really don’t want to get kicked off the Camino Forum I am having WAY too much fun reading and admittedly learning.

I will however update my graph but for personal reasons only

 

[trecile]

Camino etiquette has gone out the window with all the 'plastic pilgrims'. I'm on my 7th Camino and it's disgusting. They have all the gear and no idea, they're ignorant and have'nt got a clue. I'm so glad I experienced the true pilgrimage from 2015 - 2019.

I've yet to meet a plastic pilgrim. Do they look anything like this?

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I've yet to meet a plastic pilgrim. Do they look anything like this?

View attachment 171699

Does Ivar sell these in his store?

 

[trecile]

Does Ivar sell these in his store?

A few years ago there was a touring display of Playmobil Camino characters.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/playmobil-camino-display-in-area-central-mall.71805/

 

[Camino Chrissy]

A few years ago there was a touring display of Playmobil Camino characters.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/playmobil-camino-display-in-area-central-mall.71805/

I missed seeing it at the time, so thanks for sharing this link from @natefaith...love those pics! So cute and clever!
I'm sure it will get a new group of forum members to take a look, who misses seeing it before.

 

[David Tallan]

Yes. Technically TL;DR is an initialism. The Center for Disease Control has an explanation (but with examples for its employees).

An abbreviation is a truncated word; an acronym is made up of parts of the phrase it stands for and is pronounced as a word (ELISA, AIDS, GABA); an initialism is an acronym that is pronounced as individual letters (DNA, RT-PCR).

So much for TLA.

My training as a descriptive linguist inclines me to say that may once have been the case but usage has changed, and with it the meaning of the word.

 

[lalaone]

Plastic pilgrims may wish to consult post 45 of this thread for special tips. This crowdsourced guide has it all

 

[GuyA]

One of my learnings is TL;DR which I understand is an initialism (another word that I have never heard of…very sheltered life here ). The reason this is so special is that it would apply to most if not ALL readers of many of my blogposts.

I plan on introducing TL;DR in a future blogpost (was duly corrected a while back when I referred to my blogs instead of blogposts by none other than the OP …geez must be so careful). So thank you!

 

[Juspassinthru]

Note that Decathlon, for instance, sells red light headlamp. When you have to get up during the night, it helps avoiding waking up the others.

No, the red light doesn’t help. It helps the wearer not lose night vision. Try it in a darkened room, have someone point it at you. Sorry, I’ve just had 43 days on the Camino with red lights flashing around the room like a Disco. Headlamps are bright and focused, red or not.

 

[trecile]

I'd like to introduce a pilgrim etiquette rule: Don't judge or disparage the intentions of other pilgrims based on the distance they walk, their attire, or where they sleep.

 

[GuyA]

Be respectful of why someone is walking a Camino. They may wish to share why…they may not…perhaps they do not yet know why. Whatever the reason it is their own and it’s the right one for them.

 

[Goyo]

No, the red light doesn’t help. It helps the wearer not lose night vision. Try it in a darkened room, have someone point it at you. Sorry, I’ve just had 43 days on the Camino with red lights flashing around the room like a Disco. Headlamps are bright and focused, red or not.

I know what it’s like to be woken up in the middle of the night. I’m a very light sleeper. The faintest light (even with my eye mask puesto), the slightest noise and bingo! Wide awake and ready to go. It’s a curse, I tell you. So, with that in mind and me being the courteous type, what’s the answer when you just gotta go to the bathroom at 2AM? Hold your headlamp light or cellfone light towards the floor so as not to disturb others? Albergue baños don’t have little night lights in them or we would’ve heard, no? Nor in the hallway en route to the destination. Maybe do a practice walk from your bunk to the bathroom b4 lights out, mentally mapping out turns and obstacles on the way () and al revés on the return…

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

So, with that in mind and me being the courteous type, what’s the answer when you just gotta go to the bathroom at 2AM? Hold your headlamp light or cellfone light towards the floor so as not to disturb others?

If you want to find a blanket at 1 AM you turn on the overheads of course. The switch was on the other side of the bunk room but I was there in seconds, turned the lights off, spoke a few words and the switch wasn't touched again.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I know what it’s like to be woken up in the middle of the night. I’m a very light sleeper. The faintest light (even with my eye mask puesto), the slightest noise and bingo! Wide awake and ready to go. It’s a curse, I tell you. So, with that in mind and me being the courteous type, what’s the answer when you just gotta go to the bathroom at 2AM? Hold your headlamp light or cellfone light towards the floor so as not to disturb others? Albergue baños don’t have little night lights in them or we would’ve heard, no? Nor in the hallway en route to the destination. Maybe do a practice walk from your bunk to the bathroom b4 lights out, mentally mapping out turns and obstacles on the way () and al revés on the return…

I'm like you, easily woken, instantly alert. So personally I carry a tiny keychain torch, put it in my hand with just enough light peeking out between my fingers to see. Kept under my pillow at night, easy to find, and minimises sleep disruption to others like us.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I'm like you, easily woken, instantly alert. So personally I carry a tiny keychain torch, put it in my hand with just enough light peeking out between my fingers to see. Kept under my pillow at night, easy to find, and minimises sleep disruption to others like us.

I often have done the same. Those miniscule lights are useful and perfect for albergue life.

P.S. To add, I use mine on an old shoelace to easily find and grab it under my pillow in the dark.

 

[Goyo]

I'm like you, easily woken, instantly alert. So personally I carry a tiny keychain torch, put it in my hand with just enough light peeking out between my fingers to see. Kept under my pillow at night, easy to find, and minimises sleep disruption to others like us.

I often have done the same. Those miniscule lights are useful and perfect for albergue life.

P.S. To add, I use mine on an old shoelace to easily find and grab it under my pillow in the dark.

Thank you both for that way to simple solution Experience speaks wonders.

 

[Kiwi-family]

I often have done the same. Those miniscule lights are useful and perfect for albergue life.

P.S. To add, I use mine on an old shoelace to easily find and grab it under my pillow in the dark.

If we put that in the Helpful Hints part of The Pilgrim’s Guide to Etiquette the lightweight brigade will be up in arms that you are taking a single use object (torch) when you could just use your phone….and unless you are using a shoelace from your shoe, you’re adding MORE unnecessary weight!