Would you stop at places that lack the Camino hospitality?

[VRS]

There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?

 

[MinaKamina]

Use the restroom, have that drink and everybody is happy. Just because you call yourself pilgrim does not mean that you are entitled to anything.

Hospitality goes both ways and no bar, restaurant or albergue etc. can survive on handing out freebies.

 

[SabsP]

Common sense to pay for the toilet.
Water and toiletpaper do not come free.
Half a euro won't break the bank.
I always buy something when using the toilet in a bar. Common courtesy.
And the people of that place are extremely friendly so they do not deserve this public shaming.

 

[JabbaPapa]

That bar is right on top of a hive of both tourist and pilgrim activity, so no, you can't expect some right to use those facilities, particularly not when you could just use those of the very nearby refugio (which is an excellent one BTW).

 

[LGLG]

Reserving bathroom access for customers only is a very common practice throughout Europe - and one that I (from Oz) also find a bit harsh. However, I don't think people living near or on the Camino necessarily owe pilgrims hospitality, or that just because we are pilgrims we should have an automatic entitlement to it. Situations like this, hopefully help us to even more appreciate those frequent instances where favours and hospitality is extended to us and maybe teach us to become more grateful for the things we do receive.

 

[Kathor1]

What do I think? My first thought was: Troll alert. My second thought was: This thread will be heading straight for deletion. My third thought: What is that actually, "Camino hospitality"?

I think the term refers to the concept of donativo hospitality, ie getting food and accommodation and care when ill for free or against a totally voluntary contribution. It's modelled after medieval hospitality. However, those were times when there was no hospitality sector to speak of, there were actually very few or no inns, there was no public healthcare system to speak of, income from taxation was used differently from today. Monasteries and other institutions supported by wealthy and not so wealthy private donors housed and fed pilgrims. The donors were promised rich rewards in afterlife. In short, those days are gone.

The concept may also refer to the early days of the modern revival of the Camino when pilgrims were few and the local population welcomed strangers generously and albergue accommodation was also rare. Those days are also gone, given the huge numbers of current pilgrims and the excellent infrastructure that has been built during the last few decades.

So buy something or pay a few eurocents to use a restroom in a commercial bar and that's that. It may be hard to come to terms with but modern day foot pilgrims are not so special and exceptional anymore.

 

[Stroller]

You have no right, it is private property and exists to make a profit. That's capitalism.

 

[VRS]

Use the restroom, have that drink and everybody is happy. Just because you call yourself pilgrim does not mean that you are entitled to anything.

Hospitality goes both ways and no bar, restaurant or albergue etc. can survive on handing out freebies.

It seems it's just me. I just find it uncharitable to deny someone a restroom.

 

[SabsP]

It seems it's just me. I just find it uncharitable to deny someone a restroom.

It is no rocket sience though.
Imagine 50 pilgrims walking in and use the toilet without consuming something?
Again margin profits for bars and cafeterias are small enough as it is.

So no you are not entitled to charity .
Such is life!

 

[Kathor1]

Reserving bathroom access for customers only is a very common practice throughout Europe - and one that I (from Oz) also find a bit harsh.

That's an interesting comment. It varies a bit from one European country to the next. But there might actually be cultural bias or cultural conditioning involved. In my nearest shopping center, you even pay the lady in the restroom of a fast food restaurant; the going rate is 30 or 50 eurocents and nobody bats an eyelid, whether customer or not a customer. And I remember family members from a European country that shall remain unnamed who, when visiting abroad, regularly railed against having to pay for using a restroom or for consuming water at a restaurant table, and against having to pay an entry fee for cathedrals while those of us who lived abroad considered it as normal.

 

[LGLG]

Although I stand by my previous comment to your question, I do have some sympathy for your experience and the fact that you got upset by the refusal. I hope that you are not discouraged by all the responses to the contrary - mine included. From your signature, it seems this is your first Camino and hopefully not your last. Regardless of how many Caminos some of us have done, from time to time we all come across situations and people we find very difficult to accept or tolerate, and also some days are also more challenging than others (recent full moon, anyone?) Invariably we have something to learn from these occurences, and we can grow from it when we do. Therefore, whether you agree or not with the bar owner, or people's responses for that matter, is not the real issue. What seems more important to me is what you can gain from the experience,. For me, it would mean an opportunity to increase gratitude for the many blessings I encounter on the way, while for you it may be something entirely different. Wishing you a buen camino and lots of charitable hospitality to come.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I think the term refers to the concept of donativo hospitality, ie getting food and accommodation and care when ill for free or against a totally voluntary contribution

Donativo doesn't mean "free" -- it means pay what you can, aiming for what would be a fair reward, including as low as nothing if you literally cannot afford it, or as much as several times what it's worth if you wish to directly help other pilgrims in that manner.

 

[JabbaPapa]

It seems it's just me. I just find it uncharitable to deny someone a restroom.

It's hardly a situation where it's the only restroom in the pueblo, it's not even the only bar.

The fact remains that it's principally a tourist bar, and so pilgrims frequenting it should expect to be treated just like tourists. This is not a comment of this practice in general, nor on bars in general ; but about that one bar in particular.

 

[JabbaPapa]

against having to pay an entry fee for cathedrals

This actually is a bit of a scandal. Religious grounds can certainly justify reserving the "church proper" (altar area, choir, congregation area, some major chapels possibly, the chapel of the Tabernacle if there is one) to worshippers, thereby confining other visitors to its inside edges, but to restrict entry into a church for financial reasons can only drive people away from the Church.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?

You are not a customer so it's normal custom that you pay for using the restroom.

And what I think about your remark "lack of hospitality" it's better that I don't answer that .

 

[LGLG]

And what I think about your remark "lack of hospitality" it's better that I don't answer that .

Easy everyone, please... I would think VRS has got the point, not?

 

[Former member 49149]

There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?

It is fair enough, to buy something in return for using the facilities. My guess is that day, that bartender was not inclined to let one more pilgrim use the facilities for free...

 

[JohnCP43]

As an older male Pilgrim I can appreciate your sense of urgency but as others have said the access to use of toilets in different countries varies. Here in the US most public restrooms are free altho a few require a small coin or token obtained from the cashier. I just got back from a driving tour with my son through Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Austria & Liechtenstein and almost without exception, be it restaurant, store, gas station there was a requirement for payment from customers and non-customers alike of from 50 cents to 1 euro (altho the latter did issue a coupon valid for 1 euro discount to be used in the restaurant). In France my son paid 1 euro for the two of use but the old lady manning the toilet literally pursued me into it to collect.So, do as others suggest, purchase a beverage (you probably need it anyway), invest a smile and a please and a thank you and help create the reciprocal hospitality you wish for. Buen camino!

 

[easygoing]

There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?

I live in Washington state in the USA and I see signs like that here so it's not European only. And to be Devil's Advocate, I appreciate going into a bar and not having to wait in line for the bathroom because I am a customer. That's called customer service. I always buy something when I go into a bar but sometimes that's such a long line at the bar I leave.
The increasing numbers of pilgrims is overwhelming too many small places so try to be a little understanding.
I do have a different question. Someone mentioned going into the albergue and using their bathroom. Is that accepted if you're not staying there ?

 

[Camino Lily]

I came to enjoy the hospitality of the bars on the Camino. We would stop in the afternoon for a break and cold soda, ice cream or snack the bathrooms were a perk.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Here in the US most public restrooms are free altho a few require a small coin or token obtained from the cashier.

They are free, but the vast majority are labeled for customer use only. It took a major "scandal" at Starbucks, land of the loiterer, for them to admit that restrooms had been for customers only, and that they were changing their policy. They now are for anybody.

 

[Theatregal]

I would say that any bar along the way that is open, is offering camino hospitality. Purchasing a coffee or bottle of water to use the restroom is a fair exchange to help with their costs of water usage, bathroom supplies and cleaning. It's important to support the businesses along the way that help support our journey across their country.

 

[tomnorth]

My habit is if I stop at a business to use their restroom, I buy something. It may just be a bag of peanuts or a bottled water, but I buy something.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

Easy everyone, please... I would think VRS has got the point, not?

My remark is for the first post the OP made . The OP made a second remark and he still didn't got the point .

 

[Albertagirl]

This policy of washrooms for customers only on the camino can be uncomfortable for those of us, for example, pilgrims from North America, who are not accustomed to it. I recall one occasion, my first camino, when I had an urgent need for a washroom, feeling guilty as I crept quietly to the washroom at the back of the restaurant. I just didn't feel able to wait until after I had ordered (which I did). On a later occasion, when I found that a washroom was out of toilet paper, I told the server at the bar, who immediately and apologetically took paper to the washroom. I was wondering if a previous pilgrim had helped herself to the supply, as I had seen a remark about pilgrims who empty the albergue washrooms of toilet paper for personal use.
I feel vulnerable when bodily needs present themselves in a public and foreign context. And I imagine that financial stringency would make some feel more so. Could someone suggest how much would be a reasonable coin to leave on a bar if one did not want, and could not afford, to buy a beverage? If I budgeted for so many bathroom needs a day and carried suitable coins, I might be more comfortable to use washrooms in bars on the camino. Please be a little sympathetic to the OP's experience.

 

[SabsP]

@Albertagirl ...here in Belgium 0.30 or 0.50 eurocents

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

@Albertagirl , ..here in Holland is it the same .
Around the motorway's at tank stops and restaurant's you wil pay 50 or 70 Eurocents in return you get a ticket of 50 Eurocent you can use in the restaurant .

 

[trecile]

I was wondering if a previous pilgrim had helped herself to the supply, as I had seen a remark about pilgrims who empty the albergue washrooms of toilet paper for personal use.

Sadly, on one of the Camino FB groups that I belong to someone suggested that there is no need to bring TP from home, as you can take as much as you want from albergues and bars.

 

[SabsP]

Sadly, on one of the Camino FB groups that I belong to someone suggested that there is no need to bring TP from home, as you can take as much as you want from albergues and bars.

The many Camino guidebooks should include a chapter on the dos and dont's.

 

[Holly Mitchem]

This actually is a bit of a scandal. Religious grounds can certainly justify reserving the "church proper" (altar area, choir, congregation area, some major chapels possibly, the chapel of the Tabernacle if there is one) to worshippers, thereby confining other visitors to its inside edges, but to restrict entry into a church for financial reasons can only drive people away from the Church.

I have never had to pay an entry fee when I have asked if I may come in and pray then walk around. This goes for churches in Spain, France, California missions and even Westminster Abbey.

 

[Holly Mitchem]

There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?

My understanding of pilgrim protocol is that in private establishment it is polite to purchase something if you wish to use the restroom. We stopped at this cafe for our morning second breakfast and really enjoyed watching pilgrims walking into town over the bridge. Liked it there so much we went back later in the day for a beer.

 

[grayland]

Consider the bar owner with 100,000 people walking past his door.
Not all are considerate.
Many are demanding and destructive.
Many steal the toilet paper and form lines that block actual customers

Are they obligated, as "hospitality", to give of time and money to those who do not return the "hospitality" by making a small purchase?

 

[Deleted member 39850]

As an older male Pilgrim I can appreciate your sense of urgency but as others have said the access to use of toilets in different countries varies. Here in the US most public restrooms are free altho a few require a small coin or token obtained from the cashier. I just got back from a driving tour with my son through Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Austria & Liechtenstein and almost without exception, be it restaurant, store, gas station there was a requirement for payment from customers and non-customers alike of from 50 cents to 1 euro (altho the latter did issue a coupon valid for 1 euro discount to be used in the restaurant). In France my son paid 1 euro for the two of use but the old lady manning the toilet literally pursued me into it to collect.So, do as others suggest, purchase a beverage (you probably need it anyway), invest a smile and a please and a thank you and help create the reciprocal hospitality you wish for. Buen camino!

Sure, but a public restroom is not located in a tavern. Public restrooms abound in parks, transit stations, and civic buildings all over North America, but to waltz into a restaurant, cafe, or tavern and use the WC generally requires that one be a patron. Signs on doors indicate such with frequency with messages to the effect that the WC is "for patrons only".

 

[fraluchi]

It is so easy to ask politely if a toilet (restroom) may be used. In some places one has to pay or consume something, sometimes obtain a key for access. The general rule is to be considerate of somebody else's property and care.

 

[RealErnie]

There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?

These business deserve to recover their cost and stay in business. When you visit different countries that may have different social or cultural values than you may be familiar with, it's alway fair and courteous to be respectful and accepting.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

If I needed to use the restroom, but was not interested in purchasing anything at the time, I smiled while putting a euro on the counter for them to see and pointed to the restroom door., They always nodded and smiled back as I made my way to the restroom. No problem and I was happy to pay for the convenience.

 

[La Brique Jaune]

It happened to me to use a Bathroom in a Bar, it was an emergency and in this case i would have paid 20 Euros. When you have to go !

 

[Nocheechako]

I always expressed my appreciation for an available bathroom by purchasing something. At least a drink of a kit kat. Providing the resources for a bathroom is not free.

 

[Deleted member 39850]

So.... I do wonder "what's up with all the loos that have no seats?"... Really. What's up with that?

 

[natefaith]

Welcome to the Forum, @VRS ! Sounds like you're on the Camino at this very moment and that your experience being refused at this bar was not a fun one. I agree with others that it's part of the Camino culture (and wider European culture) to become a customer in order to use the bathroom at a bar or cafe, but hopefully the rest of your pilgrimage will be restful and wonderful and you can put this bad moment behind you. Wishing you a Buen Camino.
Faith

 

[Nocheechako]

So.... I do wonder "what's up with all the loos that have no seats?"... Really. What's up with that?

Rumor has it that they get stolen.

 

[Deleted member 39850]

Rumor has it that they get stolen.

Well, that's both brave and nasty.

 

[john newman]

Welcome to the Forum, @VRS ! Sounds like you're on the Camino at this very moment and that your experience being refused at this bar was not a fun one. I agree with others that it's part of the Camino culture (and wider European culture) to become a customer in order to use the bathroom at a bar or cafe, but hopefully the rest of your pilgrimage will be restful and wonderful and you can put this bad moment behind you. Wishing you a Buen Camino.
Faith

There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?

I did the CF 3 years ago. It distressed me to see “pilgrims” walking in by the dozen, using the toilets and not paying or even acknowledging that they were in someone elses property. There was a saying: if you walk in and ask for a coffee, thry point to the toilet; if you walk in and ask for the toilet, they pour you a coffee.
There is no entitlement in a pilgrimage.

 

[Marbe2]

It is no rocket sience though.
Imagine 50 pilgrims walking in and use the toilet without consuming something?
Again margin profits for bars and cafeterias are small enough as it is.

So no you are not entitled to charity .
Such is life!

Sabine I could not agree more! My advice to pilgrims is to budget your money for bathroom stops. Most pilgrims drink coffee or beer or purchase water along the way. If you are on such a tight budget-time your purchases to coincide with bathroom visits. When not possible and really on such a tight budget use nature but do clean up after yourself! Then you will have to purchase and carry your own toilet paper!

I

 

[Former member 59618]

It seems it's just me. I just find it uncharitable to deny someone a restroom.

It seems it is just you, as many replies have offered up some valuable perspective.

 

[LGLG]

Sabine I could not agree more! My advice to pilgrims is to budget your money for bathroom stops. Most pilgrims drink coffee or beer or purchase water along the way. If you are on such a tight budget-time your purchases to coincide with bathroom visits. When not possible and really on such a tight budget use nature but do clean up after yourself! Then you will have to purchase and carry your own toilet paper!

I

And a bag to collect your tissues in (please don't leave them on the trail! - this goes mostly for women). And for bigger business - a little spade!

 

[Icacos]

So.... I do wonder "what's up with all the loos that have no seats?"... Really. What's up with that?

My guess is that it's one fewer thing to have to keep in good working order - that is, the hinges - and one fewer thing to have to clean.

 

[KinkyOne]

So.... I do wonder "what's up with all the loos that have no seats?"... Really. What's up with that?

Same as with bedbugs. Most possibly we carry them from one place to another. And if there are like 300.000 recorded (!!!) pilgrims in SdC each year I would say WE breake the toilet seats.
It might be a local chap, but how many times he would have to sit on that seat to really break it???

I know..., it could be done with one kick... but then again why would a local do this...???

 

[Former member 59618]

Common sense to pay for the toilet.
Water and toiletpaper do not come free.
Half a euro won't break the bank.
I always buy something when using the toilet in a bar. Common courtesy.
And the people of that place are extremely friendly so they do not deserve this public shaming.

Precisely....the initial post smacks of public shaming.

 

[nycwalking]

I never have to use the toilet.

 

[Anamiri]

Most cafes at home expect you to purchase something in order to have access to their bathroom. They are a private enterprise, and I think its very fair, There is a cost to them to keep it stocked with paper and clean it. I dont expect anything different in Spain.

It is much easier in NZ because public tolilets are readily available and are free, every village and small town has a public toilet . They are often not open during late or early hours but through the day people have ready access to them.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

public tolilets are readily available and are free, every village and small town has a public toilet.

It is the same in France, but it is not something that is common in Spain except in some large cities (Pamplona and Leon come to mind).

I have opined before in the Forum that Juntas could subsidize portable toilets at strategic places that also would be catering trucks. Each morning in the high season, the vendors and toilets could position in the sections without bars or restaurants, and then return in the afternoon to a central point in the city for the toilets to be serviced. With a nominal charge for the toilet, twenty cents perhaps, vendors would be able to make a profit, Spain would add a few hundred seasonal jobs to reduce its high unemployment, the subsidy from the Junta would be nominal, and the countryside would be cleaned up a bit.

Imagine vendor trucks with a portable toilet in tow that would be a bit like the donativo squatter before the cross before Astorga (but with the electricity, hot water, and sanitary facilities that he lacks).

It is my suspicion that bars actually want to draw in pilgrims with their restrooms, but only if they sell something. There is not a big markup on an 80 cent cafe or 1.20E soda, so buying something in a bar is not a huge benefit to the owner in maintaining the toilets. It is closer to a courtesy than it is to a capitalist windfall.

The vending trucks would be the same, but not in the villages and cities with commercial establishments. As long as the bars did not see the toilets as commercial competition, I think they would support the juntas' program. It is pretty obvious to anyone who walks the Camino that the need for a toilet is not limited to the villages and cities!!

I fully expect my idea to never be implemented...

 

[Fletchonides]

I have never had to pay an entry fee when I have asked if I may come in and pray then walk around. This goes for churches in Spain, France, California missions and even Westminster Abbey.

I have experienced it in several places where they charged entry. Pamplona Cathedral had some exhibition and we were told to come back in the evening if we wanted to pray. Astorga Cathedral told us if we wanted to pray we could come back for 10am Mass the next morning. Burgos Cathedral did it reasonabley well; they charge entry to the more arty elements of the Cathedral, but there is a prayer chapel that you can always go into and pray.

I don't mind wanting to charge tourists to come in and treat the church like a museum; I really do mind when they forget the original purpose is so people can come and pray.

 

[Marbe2]

I agree that there should be some sanctuary area designated to pray all day at such churches. However, I do understand that money is needed to maintain them. The cathedral in Leon has a chapel that is available most of the day
ttps://www.catedraldeleon.org/index.php/culto-205

This practice is not unique to Spain...Italy certainly has been doing it for many years. There are specific hours when one can enter to attend masses. It is the reality of being able to maintain these structures.

 

[Anniesantiago]

There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?

I think a person wanting to use the toilet should either buy something or pay a euro. Many of those places are not on public sewer systems. They also must pay for water and toilet paper.

Think about the cost of that plus cleaning if a hundred people stopped by YOUR house to use the toilet.

My advice is to get over it and pay up!

 

[Kathor1]

@Albertagirl ...here in Belgium 0.30 or 0.50 eurocents

@SabineP, I think you meant 30 or 50 eurocents . Paris is 70-80 eurocents, service stations on German motorways charge 50 eurocents (you get a voucher to be used in their shops/cafeterias). In a Spanish bar, I always buy something and I usually stay for a drink. If not, I personally would probably leave 50 cents or even 1 € at the bar.

 

[SabsP]

@SabineP, I think you meant 30 or 50 eurocents . Paris is 70-80 eurocents, service stations on German motorways charge 50 eurocents (you get a voucher to be used in their shops/cafeterias). In a Spanish bar, I always buy something and I usually stay for a drink. If not, I personally would probably leave 50 cents or even 1 € at the bar.

Correct..

 

[Reidun Fyno]

There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?

If I f.e. go to a bar because I want to use the toilet, I buy something - coffe, juice, or chokolate - just something. For resting I would do the same. They offer me a service and I return my gratitude in buying somesting. They cannot live from my gratitude alone

 

[Bumpa]

Welcome to the Forum, @VRS ! Sounds like you're on the Camino at this very moment and that your experience being refused at this bar was not a fun one. I agree with others that it's part of the Camino culture (and wider European culture) to become a customer in order to use the bathroom at a bar or cafe, but hopefully the rest of your pilgrimage will be restful and wonderful and you can put this bad moment behind you. Wishing you a Buen Camino.
Faith

Faith..you are a peach Your responses are always measured, appropriate and designed to have people feel better after reading them. I for one appreciate them.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Faith..you are a peach Your responses are always measured, appropriate and designed to have people feel better after reading them. I for one appreciate them.

Totally agree! "Thumbs up" to Faith!

 

[Robo]

Here in the US most public restrooms are free

I suppose the point here, is that a restroom in a bar or cafe is not a 'public' restroom. They seem to be a thing of the past is so many countries...at least free restrooms.

I spoke to a couple of bar owners about this kind of situation on the CF this year. One lady really unloaded on me! She had a keypad lock on the door to the restrooms with a sign "for customers only".

We were having lunch there. I asked if it was a problem for her, Pilgrims just coming in to use the toilets. Well.............she (politely) shared her views...........

She was 'fed up' with people coming in to use her bar as a public toilet! And just walking out without even saying thank you or buying anything. They would ask to use the WiFi, want to charge their phones etc etc.

Not the only one by any means that was a bit frustrated......

Of course other bar owners will have more charitable views I'm sure. But for me we can't walk a Camino with any sense of being 'entitled', to use anything........

Regarding the bar mentioned, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, I have stayed there twice. I have found the owners and staff very pleasant. The owner here was the guy who was teasing Pat about her lack of Spanish. He was a real joker........ Nice meals there too.

 

[natefaith]

Wow...Thanks so much @Bumpa and @Camino Chris ! That's high praise coming from you both.

 

[spagirl]

I just had a party at my home with about 75 guests. I went through a huge bag of toilette rolls and my handle was wobbly on one toilet, the seat got partially detached from the other and there was soap every where and splashed up mirrors with over flowing waist baskets.......
and these people were my friends that I had invited- no one individual was misusing the washroom.
Imagine what hundreds of people passing through your establishment can do?

I saw a sign in the Caribbean with an arrow pointing to a bar that read " really clean toilettes with soft paper and nice smells - only $ 1.00 US dollar" . Well worth the price!

 

[Marbe2]

As an older male Pilgrim I can appreciate your sense of urgency but as others have said the access to use of toilets in different countries varies. Here in the US most public restrooms are free altho a few require a small coin or token obtained from the cashier. I just got back from a driving tour with my son through Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Austria & Liechtenstein and almost without exception, be it restaurant, store, gas station there was a requirement for payment from customers and non-customers alike of from 50 cents to 1 euro (altho the latter did issue a coupon valid for 1 euro discount to be used in the restaurant). In France my son paid 1 euro for the two of use but the old lady manning the toilet literally pursued me into it to collect.So, do as others suggest, purchase a beverage (you probably need it anyway), invest a smile and a please and a thank you and help create the reciprocal hospitality you wish for. Buen camino!

In the USA it varies. Many restaurants in NYC, for example, have signs that indicate that bathrooms are for customers only!

I have traveled extensively in Germany and Switzerland....And lived in Austria. Along the autobahn, and train stations, and town facilities you will pay consistently. Same for Italy. However when I have dined at a restaurant, I have very rarely, if ever,had to pay for the Klo.

 

[spagirl]

I just realized that 'toilet' is spelled many different ways in my post. For clarification ( lest you think I can not spell) I use a multi lingual keyboard for English, French, Spanish, Italian and Arabic....
My auto correct is on steroids sometimes!!

 

[Tincatinker]

Thats okay. Toilets is spelt loads of different ways in Spanish. But if you're jiggling about a bit and looking slightly desparate everyone will know where you want. Watch out for Banos, Servicios, lavabos, senors, senoras, cabelloros, damas, hombres, mujeres & WC. And I've no doubt the fluent, or perhaps the incontinent, among members will be able to add a few more. Where I grew up the polite words were 'ditch' or 'bush' but there are far too many pilgs to make that a viable option on the Frances.

And for those who think buying a coffee 'cos you need a wee is a self-defeating prospect. You're right! Drink beer and top-up your electrolytes

 

[Bradypus]

And for those who think buying a coffee 'cos you need a wee is a self-defeating prospect. You're right! Drink beer and top-up your electrolytes

Absolutely I wonder if you have ever read William Cobbett's marvellous rant against tea and in favour of beer? Substitute "coffee" wherever he mentions "tea" and the argument still holds good
http://quite.com/misc/tea1.htm

 

[Tincatinker]

Ah, the lovely Cobbett. The Beloved often charges me with channeling Cobbett when I'm ranting against the latest outrage against this pleasant land and its honest peasantry.
Usually because I've followed his excellent advice and had an honest beer, or some...

 

[KinkyOne]

...Watch out for Banos, Servicios, lavabos, senors, senoras, cabelloros, damas, hombres, mujeres & WC. And I've no doubt the fluent, or perhaps the incontinent, among members will be able to add a few more. ...

Aseos comes to mind.

 

[mspath]

Wherever you do 'use the facilities' beware of the doors.
I had an unfortunate experience in Torres del Rio late one October during a mid-morning 'comfort stop' for coffee and the loo. In a slick new bar/restaurant/hostal after chatting with a friendly group of French walkers who had spent the night in this up-market spot I went into the ladies toilet which also served as the disabled facility. Motion sensitive lights shone as I entered and the wide heavy door automatically rolled shut without a touch. It also LOCKED in place. Eventually when I attempted to exit the door could neither be budged nor opened. No instructions were visible describing HOW to turn what in order to get out. Panic!! I loudly banged and yelled for help. Luckily after a few seemingly endless minutes the French clients and not the local staff heard my cries and told me through the door that a security agent was at last on the way. When he arrived he clicked the magic switch and the door rolled smoothly open. All cheered. I was told "No problem Senora, that OFTEN happens with this door" and my coffee would be offered by the house !! Evermore I shall be very wary of sliding doors that may lock.

 

[LTfit]

You are not a customer so it's normal custom that you pay for using the restroom.

And what I think about your remark "lack of hospitality" it's better that I don't answer that .

I echo most of the reactions to the OP, especially when the word 'hospitality' is combined with a feeling of entitlement. Maybe I take it even more to heart as a past Hospitalera. Incredulous really.

I grew up in the U.S. where it was (I guess still) free to use toilets in public places and stores but have lived the last 25 years in The Netherlands where it is normal to pay something for the use of a toilet, sometimes even when you are a customer! One can be upset or mad but that is how it is. No discussion. It is called respecting local customs.

Please consume a coffee (€1.10 - €1.30) or something else if you want to use sanitary facilities. Most people spend hundreds to thousands on airfare and equipment, a few euros will make everyone happier.

Ultreia!

 

[Former member 59618]

I know this thread is growing long, and I have a feeling the OP has long since left the conversation. I'm from the U.S. and in my experience, all bathrooms aren't open to the public. I mean, yes there are public restrooms (big grocery stores, public restrooms at the beach/park, libraries etc), but in smaller places of business I frequently see "restrooms for customers only" signs. So freaking be a customer.

That being said...I really love this camino community. Much of who embody the camino spirit and are willing to gently call out others who struggle to understand. We are not tourists, we are pilgrims. The entitlement in our everyday lives needs to be dialed way back while gracing these small, rural towns of Spain, many of who struggle because young people make their way to the big cities. At the end of the day, all I require is a bed, a meal, a place to hang my laundry, and a shower. And an Estrella Galicia. Much of what is refreshing on the camino is that things are different than home. You learn to sort of go with it, shrug your shoulders if the shower is lukewarm, put earplugs in because someone is snoring next to you........the next day will be different.

Also, bring or BUY toilet paper! Save your plastic bags to stash the trash. For the LOVE OF GOD, do not litter. My bladder is small and many times I had to pee on the side of the road-it distressed me to no end to see tissue strewn about. I was appalled by humanity. We have to do better....

Cheers all.

 

[spagirl]

"And for those who think buying a coffee 'cos you need a wee is a self-defeating prospect. You're right! Drink beer and top-up your electrolytes "

Wheat beer has the added benefit of being an anti inflammatory!!!

 

[Icacos]

Just for the record, public restrooms in the US may be free now, but I don't think it was always so. I recall, quite a while back when I first came to Canada, Americans coming here and being surprised that there was no charge to use public washrooms. They were told that it is illegal in Canada to charge a fee for the use of a washroom. That said, one still encounters signs in private establishments saying washrooms are for customer use only.

 

[Margaret Butterworth]

"It is much easier in NZ because public tolilets are readily available and are free, every village and small town has a public toilet ." When will the Spanish authorities acknowledge that the current situation is completely untenable and do something significant about providing public toilets along the Camino? Maybe the new Government can be persuaded to act.

 

[LTfit]

"It is much easier in NZ because public tolilets are readily available and are free, every village and small town has a public toilet ." When will the Spanish authorities acknowledge that the current situation is completely untenable and do something significant about providing public toilets along the Camino? Maybe the new Government can be persuaded to act.

This is not likely. Just curious, why do you think that the (local) government should provide public toilets for pilgrims along the Camino? Do we have more right to this service than the local population?
The cost for placement (what an eyesore!) and upkeep would be tremendous. Spain is not the U.S. nor NZ.
The solution is much more simple and helps the local economy - buy a drink and use the sanitary services in a cafe. Win-win for everyone IMHO.

 

[Margaret Butterworth]

Of course many pilgrims do stop at cafes and buy a drink or a snack, but many more do not. There are now far too many people along the Camino that the old system is not working. For public health reasons there will have to be a change!

 

[MinaKamina]

Of course many pilgrims do stop at cafes and buy a drink or a snack, but many more do not. There are now far too many people along the Camino that the old system is not working. For public health reasons there will have to be a change!

If public health is endangered, the quickest solution would be to limit the number of pilgrims and to impose fines on those who litter the countryside.

 

[oursonpolaire]

Thats okay. Toilets is spelt loads of different ways in Spanish. But if you're jiggling about a bit and looking slightly desparate everyone will know where you want. Watch out for Banos, Servicios, lavabos, senors, senoras, cabelloros, damas, hombres, mujeres & WC. And I've no doubt the fluent, or perhaps the incontinent, among members will be able to add a few more. Where I grew up the polite words were 'ditch' or 'bush' but there are far too many pilgs to make that a viable option on the Frances.

And for those who think buying a coffee 'cos you need a wee is a self-defeating prospect. You're right! Drink beer and top-up your electrolytes

Those who have walked the Primitivo will also note that the signs in Asturian can read homes and muyeres-- I walked with a Californian pilgrim who decided that he wanted to pronounce it homies.

Others have made similar points, but I would also like to chime in to compliment the nice people at Don Suero de Quiñone -- I stayed there one chilly October, and spent a pleasant half-hour with the two kids helping them with their English homework.

As far as the topic goes, bars provide us this service, but they have bills as well. Unless I was ordering (and I always leap for chance to try the local cortado), I would put a 50c piece or a euro on the counter when asking directions to the aseos. Quite frequently, the coin was passed back to me, but it was clear that the gesture was well-received. Much is gained with the Spanish by courtesy and recognition and, really, it's not a bad habit to develop and take home.

 

[Via2010]

There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?

I will ask you a question in return: How do you define "camino hospitality"?

To me it seems, that many pilgrims have different ideas about it. It is a misrepresentation to think, that "camino hospitality" means that pilgrims have to be treated different from locals or normal customers in a bar and be given things for free.

I would never expect that "camino hospitality" includes to allow a stranger to use my bathroom for free. For me "camino hospitality" is rather the way how I welcome pilgrims in an albergue, help them on their way, answer their questions, give advice.

BC
Alexandra

 

[SabsP]

"It is much easier in NZ because public tolilets are readily available and are free, every village and small town has a public toilet ." When will the Spanish authorities acknowledge that the current situation is completely untenable and do something significant about providing public toilets along the Camino? Maybe the new Government can be persuaded to act.

I have this wild idea that the new government has other issues to tackle than providing public toilets.
Again I am sure that they like to see more revenue for the local cafes.
And yes comparing New Zealand with Spain is like comparing apples with oranges.

 

[LTfit]

I have this wild idea that the new government has other issues to tackle than providing public toilets.
Again I am sure that they like to see more revenue for the local cafes.
And yes comparing New Zealand with Spain is like comparing apples with oranges.

Just a few other "minor" issues Sabine. I guess that we won't go there otherwise this thread will be considered too political

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?

How did this ever pop up before me and entice me into a reply? I guess I hate unfair one-star reviews. I actually ate breakfast here—it was lovely, great view, wonderful staff, delicious food. I’ve lived & travelled over much of the Americas, Asia, Europe, & Africa...and most private places (not libraries, train stations, etc) reserve facilities for paying customers or have a charge (as Sabine et al pointed out) to use them. I recall fondly a group of us in the pre-Euro days digging through a pile of Dutch, German, and French change to find relief in Paris. As has been said, TP, soap, water, and sewer charges are not free, nor is it fun cleaning up after people. The reason some Starbucks started restricting their bathroom use was it being used for all sorts of things by non-customers. Now that policy has come full circle.

Boycott these places hoping to shutter them—yeah, that will fix the bathroom shortage. Paying back for what you use should be part of the “Pilgrim” mantra also.

Anyway, when I ate there it was lovely, and if I ever walk with my sister I might arrange our trip to spend the night there. Ok, back to my virtual hermitage.

 

[Anamiri]

It is the same in France, but it is not something that is common in Spain except in some large cities (Pamplona and Leon come to mind).

I have opined before in the Forum that Juntas could subsidize portable toilets at strategic places that also would be catering trucks. Each morning in the high season, the vendors and toilets could position in the sections without bars or restaurants, and then return in the afternoon to a central point in the city for the toilets to be serviced. With a nominal charge for the toilet, twenty cents perhaps, vendors would be able to make a profit, Spain would add a few hundred seasonal jobs to reduce its high unemployment, the subsidy from the Junta would be nominal, and the countryside would be cleaned up a bit.

Imagine vendor trucks with a portable toilet in tow that would be a bit like the donativo squatter before the cross before Astorga (but with the electricity, hot water, and sanitary facilities that he lacks).

It is my suspicion that bars actually want to draw in pilgrims with their restrooms, but only if they sell something. There is not a big markup on an 80 cent cafe or 1.20E soda, so buying something in a bar is not a huge benefit to the owner in maintaining the toilets. It is closer to a courtesy than it is to a capitalist windfall.

The vending trucks would be the same, but not in the villages and cities with commercial establishments. As long as the bars did not see the toilets as commercial competition, I think they would support the juntas' program. It is pretty obvious to anyone who walks the Camino that the need for a toilet is not limited to the villages and cities!!

I fully expect my idea to never be implemented...

I for one would be happy to pay 20 cents

 

[cathn]

There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?

Respect the business and buy a drink.
They are not there for your convenience.( sorry about the pun)

 

[Felicia V]

This policy of washrooms for customers only on the camino can be uncomfortable for those of us, for example, pilgrims from North America, who are not accustomed to it. I recall one occasion, my first camino, when I had an urgent need for a washroom, feeling guilty as I crept quietly to the washroom at the back of the restaurant. I just didn't feel able to wait until after I had ordered (which I did). On a later occasion, when I found that a washroom was out of toilet paper, I told the server at the bar, who immediately and apologetically took paper to the washroom. I was wondering if a previous pilgrim had helped herself to the supply, as I had seen a remark about pilgrims who empty the albergue washrooms of toilet paper for personal use.
I feel vulnerable when bodily needs present themselves in a public and foreign context. And I imagine that financial stringency would make some feel more so. Could someone suggest how much would be a reasonable coin to leave on a bar if one did not want, and could not afford, to buy a beverage? If I budgeted for so many bathroom needs a day and carried suitable coins, I might be more comfortable to use washrooms in bars on the camino. Please be a little sympathetic to the OP's experience.[/QUOT

Try to find a complimentary toilet in Manhattan! lol I head straight for a department store. This is not unheard of. Has little to do with hospitality. That's why god invented bushes ( but please take your used toilet paper

 

[Felicia V]

Try to find a complimentary toilet in Manhattan! lol I head straight for a department store. This is not unheard of. Has little to do with hospitality. That's why god invented bushes ( but please take your used toilet paper

 

[Tina B]

Generally, I think people should buy something before using the toilets. I was astonished to find queues of 'pilgrims' who wanted a credential stamp, a refill of water and to use the toilets... For nothing! I always bought a little something. (A coffee is less than 2euros.) I also saw the people wash and dress their feet in the bar facilities.. making mess, giving nothing. Listening to conversations, many people had spent a great deal on their flights but then begrudged local business the cost of a coffee.!? ?

 

[AbbyDee]

There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?

These places have expenses, and depending where you are in Spain, and how dry the year is, water may even be rationed. Even here at home, when I use the gas station rest rooms, if I am not buying gas, i buy a package of chewing gum or maybe a newspaper. It costs little, and beats the heck out of pay toilets (yes, I remember those!) So taking a break for a cafe con leche or an Aquarius won't break the bank, and a pleasant respite and I was always treated with courtesy. YMMV.

 

[Canuck60]

There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?

The number of times my wife would tell me to get a coffee/wine etc... because she had to pee! I would walk up to the bar and she would run to the bathroom. These people are running a business to cater to our needs. At the end of the day they needs profits. Simple as that.

 

[Karenmc49]

I happily paid for the use of any bathroom I needed. There were times when I would have paid my whole days food money just to find a bathroom!!
Unlike most men I encountered, who didn’t even bother to move off the path before relieving themselves.
As Canuck60 said, he would order the drink while his wife rushed off to the bathroom.
I realise there are cultural differences, but I still found it quite offensive stepping over some guys puddle!! And so did all the other women I met along the way.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The thread originator has not returned to the Forum since posting, so it may be time to stop piling on. It is clear by now that Members generally understand the commercial nature of bars and restaurants! Any solution to the problem of inadequate restrooms lies in ideas/action by someone other than bar owners providing free facilities.

Camino businesses and organizations meet each year. It is hard to imagine that the problem has not been part of the agenda. While they probably focus on Spanish citizen ideas and j/xunta issues, is there something that members of an English language internet site can do to create a solution to a problem that 100% of pilgrims may be agreeing on? J/xuntas or Spain plant trees (many of which soon die for lack of care) along hundreds of kilometers of trail. Mud holes have been paved. The route has been restored after landslides. Can toilets be made a priority?

 

[arturo garcia]

There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?

Hugs From Hospital de Orbigo.
I work and live a few meters after Restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones. And have similar situations almost every day. Dozens of pilgrims asking for toilet.
The best way to act and behave in the Camino is to be in Others Boots. Always Consider others peoples work (hospitaleros, bartenders) they do a huge effort to keep a place open and in good condition, which is not so easy in Spain. where water, energy, paper and cleaning work is expensive. Albergues, Hostels, restaurants has to be sustainable or they have to close the door.
Do not just demand. "El Camino" is an exchange of Hospitality, giving and receiving, nothing falls from heaven.
Common sense and Buen Camino.

 

[tpmchugh]

There's a bar just at the end of the famous Puente de Orbigo, bar restaurante Don Suero de Quiñones, that refused to let me use the restroom unless I was a customer. I think that a place that lacks the minimum of hospitality to pilgrims should NOT profit from them. I would not give my business to such a place. What do you think?

If I am tired enough, hungry enough or thirsty enough, I will stop anywhere. That bar is not the only one with that policy. The famous German bar at Boente has a sign up to that effect. If you want to use his facilities and have not bought anything, you pay for the toilet. Many dont as it is not policed during busy periods but it is the policy. It puts no-one off stopping there. Most bars do not ask us to pay for our food until we are leaving, the bar at Gonzar asks for payment at time of order. Do you think maybe, bars have different policies because their hospitality may have been abused by pilgrims. Like donativos where some think the word means the same as free. Live and let live and dont look for problems is my policy

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Gonzar asks for payment at time of order.

With the crowds there, they never could keep track of open tabs. The pay-when-you-leave is more for "normal" bars!

 

[Deleted member 36903]

I happily paid for the use of any bathroom I needed. There were times when I would have paid my whole days food money just to find a bathroom!!
Unlike most men I encountered, who didn’t even bother to move off the path before relieving themselves.
As Canuck60 said, he would order the drink while his wife rushed off to the bathroom.
I realise there are cultural differences, but I still found it quite offensive stepping over some guys puddle!! And so did all the other women I met along the way.

Puddles are not nearly so bad as coming across a pilgrim squatting just to the edge of the path on the CP, trousers round his ankles, carefully folding toilet paper while he relieved himself. he even gave my female pilgrim friend a smile as she passed him.

 

[Bradypus]

Puddles are not nearly so bad as coming across a pilgrim squatting just to the edge of the path on the CP, trousers round his ankles, carefully folding toilet paper while he relieved himself. he even gave my female pilgrim friend a smile as she passed him.

In fairness I should point out that it is not always men that are the problem. I came around a bend in the track in one of the woodland sections of the CF and almost fell over a woman who was just standing up in the middle of the track - her trousers and underwear still around her ankles and a damp patch steaming on the path. I passed by with as polite a "Buen Camino" as I could manage and was rewarded with a particularly venomous scowl in return

 

[Anniesantiago]

I happily paid for the use of any bathroom I needed. There were times when I would have paid my whole days food money just to find a bathroom!!
Unlike most men I encountered, who didn’t even bother to move off the path before relieving themselves.
As Canuck60 said, he would order the drink while his wife rushed off to the bathroom.
I realise there are cultural differences, but I still found it quite offensive stepping over some guys puddle!! And so did all the other women I met along the way.

Yeah, well I found it offensive to step over all the toilet paper that WOMEN leave along the trail. To me, that is more offensive and mind boggling than a puddle that will disappear.

 

[Walton]

It happened to me to use a Bathroom in a Bar, it was an emergency and in this case i would have paid 20 Euros. When you have to go !

I would have asked for a 19 euro seniors discount though

 

[Icacos]

...and almost fell over a woman who was just standing up in the middle of the track - her trousers and underwear still around her ankles and a damp patch steaming on the path. I passed by with as polite a "Buen Camino" as I could manage and was rewarded with a particularly venomous scowl in return

You should have practised ‘custody of the eyes.’ Not looked, not seen!!