While you're not doing anything else ... help locate the pilgrim shelter in The Way

[Bert45]

Are you saying that they filmed the scene in the derelict house with the view of the actual garden? It seems unlikely to me, but stranger things happen.

Not at all, Raggy. The (real) derelict house is (was) in Calle la Carrera. The house in the film with the garden/toilet is Calle el Sepulcro 21. Surely that is clear from my post #80? The house at Calle el Sepulcro was for sale in September 2012, when Streetview went by. The house at 6 or 8 Calle la Carrera was derelict at the same time.

 

[Deleted member 73526]

Surely that is clear from my post #80?

Not so much. Surely that is clear from my request for clarification.

 

[Bert45]

Raggy commented: Unfortunately, I don't think that he really establishes a reason for the pilgrims to be scared. You feel Jack's discomfort at the lack of an inside privy, for sure, but there's nothing creepy about El Ramon or the albergue. I don't think that they were really scared. The house is dark and there are stuffed animals all over the place – not in glass cases. That's a bit creepy. Tom says he'll go upstairs and ask "them" about the price of the beds. The others say they'll go with him. Tom says, "What are you all – five?" Jost replies, "No, just scared." But I don't think that three adults would be seriously scared in that house; they'd just rather stay together. You know what happens in all the Slasher movies – anyone left alone is killed off, one by one. Then they discover that El Ramón is a little bit "touched"; he is having a conversation with himself, taking the part of a woman. This makes them rather uncomfortable. Would you want to stay in a house with somebody who talks to himself in that way? You don't know what he might be capable of. So they leave. OK, it's not believable, but it provides a bit of humour, and as everyone acknowledges, it's a film (movie) not a documentary.

 

[Bert45]

Not so much. Surely that is clear from my request for clarification.

It was established at post #68 that the derelict house (the real Casa Santa Barbara) was in Calle la Carrera and that the house in the film was in Calle el Sepulcro. My post #80 was only referring to the house that we saw in the film in Calle el Sepulcro, which appeared to be single-storied in the only exterior shot of it in the film, and in the view posted on here from Streetview (post #37). I wondered how they managed to go upstairs in a single-storey house. Aniello mentioned that in august 2019 it [the house in Calle el Sepulcro] was still there with the interior as in the film. It was his mention of the interior "as in the film" (I don't know how he knew – perhaps he gained access to the interior) that prompted me to look around to the side of the house, in Calle los Fueros, and the back of the house in Calle San Andrés, where I saw the gate and the sloping brick wall that matched the view in the film when El Ramón shows Jack the "facilities". I thought it was interesting to know that the interior of the house was not a studio set.

 

[Kathor1]

As so often, a picture can tell us more than many words. The movie garden is a tiny walled-in affair in the middle of town. Señor Ramón's garden was more like a vast open park at the edge of town. It even seems, judging by the cadaster images, that it was open ended towards the fields (beyond the area marked in purple). Note that the purple lines below mark property limits as defined in the Navarra cadaster.

The movie seems to tell us near-real-life stories. The real-life stories are better, multifaceted and more credible.

 

[Kathor1]

People who have walked through Torres del Rio will remember that it is built along a hill and how steep the streets are. Same as in Sansol, btw, which comes just before Torres del Rio. Numerous houses look like having just one storey/floor when you view them from an upper street and two stories/floors when you view them from a lower street.

 

[Aniello]

1993:

"...a Torres del Rio dove, già stanchi, ci fermiamo all'ultima fonte...da un anziano che lavora l'orto apprendo che Ramon Sostres -decano del Cammino- ha fatto una paralisi e vive a Logrogno in Ospizio..."

Questo è tutto.

ULTERYA

Questa è una testimonianza di pino toniolo che nel suo primo cammino aveva conosciuto ramon...tornando nel secondo cammino 1993 scopre la disgrazia di ramon...ora dobbiamo scoprire dove è sepolto

 

[Aniello]

It was established at post #68 that the derelict house (the real Casa Santa Barbara) was in Calle la Carrera and that the house in the film was in Calle el Sepulcro. My post #80 was only referring to the house that we saw in the film in Calle el Sepulcro, which appeared to be single-storied in the only exterior shot of it in the film, and in the view posted on here from Streetview (post #37). I wondered how they managed to go upstairs in a single-storey house. Aniello mentioned that in august 2019 it [the house in Calle el Sepulcro] was still there with the interior as in the film. It was his mention of the interior "as in the film" (I don't know how he knew – perhaps he gained access to the interior) that prompted me to look around to the side of the house, in Calle los Fueros, and the back of the house in Calle San Andrés, where I saw the gate and the sloping brick wall that matched the view in the film when El Ramón shows Jack the "facilities". I thought it was interesting to know that the interior of the house was not a studio set.

Si bert.la casa è in vendita da molti anni.sono passato da torres del rio ben 9 cammini.nel 2019..sono entrato ed incredibilmente tutto rimasto come nel film..sia la.madonna..che l animale imbalsamato...che il tavolo..è stato come essermi proiettato nel film.

 

[Kathor1]

Questa è una testimonianza di pino toniolo che nel suo primo cammino aveva conosciuto ramon...tornando nel secondo cammino 1993 scopre la disgrazia di ramon...ora dobbiamo scoprire dove è sepolto

@Aniello, thank you so much for this information. Is this publicly available, i.e. is there a link to it? It is quite useful to have an Italian speaker for this topic . I google for information in various languages but not in Italian. I see one account of Pino Toniolo's 1993 pilgrimage here but Ramón Sostres is not mentioned. I'm trying to figure out when exactly Jack Hitt walked. He must have been one of the last people to meet Señor Ramón in his Torres del Rio home.

 

[Aniello]

Pino toniolo in una mail ieri mi ha detto che nel 1993 al secondo suo cammino voleva salutare il sign ramon in quanto nel 1998 lo aveva conosciuto vedi foto postata da hathar nel 1993 ha incontrato un sign. Anziano che le ha detto che ramon sostres aveva avuto una paralisi ed era stato in seguito trasferito in uno ospizio a logrogno

 

[Aniello]

@Aniello, thank you so much for this information. Is this publicly available, i.e. is there a link to it? It is quite useful to have an Italian speaker for this topic . I google for information in various languages but not in Italian. I see one account of Pino Toniolo's 1993 pilgrimage here but Ramón Sostres is not mentioned. I'm trying to figure out when exactly Jack Hitt walked. He must have been one of the last people to meet Señor Ramón in his Torres del Rio home.

@Aniello, thank you so much for this information. Is this publicly available, i.e. is there a link to it? It is quite useful to have an Italian speaker for this topic . I google for information in various languages but not in Italian. I see one account of Pino Toniolo's 1993 pilgrimage here but Ramón Sostres is not mentioned. I'm trying to figure out when exactly Jack Hitt walked. He must have been one of the last people to meet Señor Ramón in his Torres del Rio home.

Mi ha mandato una.mail ieri con la sua testimonianza e la foto l hai anche tu publicata e l

 

[Kathor1]

Pino toniolo in una mail ieri mi ha detto che nel 1993 al secondo suo cammino voleva salutare il sign ramon in quanto nel 1998 lo aveva conosciuto vedi foto postata da hathar nel 1993 ha incontrato un sign. Anziano che le ha detto che ramon sostres aveva avuto una paralisi ed era stato in seguito trasferito in uno ospizio a logrogno

Let me translate this (and I think there is a typo, it's 1989 instead of 1998, right?). So, with the help of DeepL.com, I understand this:

Pino Toniolo told me in an email yesterday that, on his second Camino in 1993, he wanted to say hello to Señor Ramón because in 1989 he had met him - see the photo posted by Kathar1na. In 1993, Pino Toniolo met an old man in Torres del Rio who told him that Ramón Sostres had a stroke and was later transferred to a hospice in Logroño.​

​

I see from Pino Toniolo's online report that he passed through Torres del Rio on 4 August 1993. The American author Jack Hitt, I think, walked a little earlier in the same year so it is entirely possible that he could still have met Ramón Sostres in Torres del Rio. Although a small doubt is now creeping up in my mind. Perhaps he just thought he had met him because he had read earlier vivid reports? And just seen the house? Oh, it's terrible to have such a sceptical mind as I have.

 

[Aniello]

Let me translate this (and I think there is a typo, it's 1989 instead of 1998, right?). So, with the help of DeepL.com, I understand this:

Pino Toniolo told me in an email yesterday that, on his second Camino in 1993, he wanted to say hello to Señor Ramón because in 1989 he had met him - see the photo posted by Kathar1na. In 1993, Pino Toniolo met an old man in Torres del Rio who told him that Ramón Sostres had a stroke and was later transferred to a hospice in Logroño.​

​

I see from Pino Toniolo's online report that he passed through Torres del Rio on 4 August 1993. The American author Jack Hitt, I think, walked a little earlier in the same year so it is entirely possible that he could still have met Ramón Sostres in Torres del Rio. Although a small doubt is now creeping up in my mind. Perhaps he just thought he had met him because he had read earlier vivid reports? And just seen the house? Oh, it's terrible to have such a sceptical nature as I have.

Giusto 1989 in quella occasione conobbe il sign. Ramon sostres e fece la foto da te publicata..nel 1993 al suo secondo cammino ha scoperto parlando con un anziano di torres del rio che ramon aveva avuto un ictus e che si trovava a logrogno...

 

[Kathor1]

I see from Pino Toniolo's online report that he passed through Torres del Rio on 4 August 1993. The American author Jack Hitt, I think, walked a little earlier in the same year so it is entirely possible that he could still have met Ramón Sostres in Torres del Rio.

I checked Jack Hitt's book. According to which he started in June 1993 in SJPP and arrived in Santiago on the day before 25 July 1993. So he could have. Small doubts linger ... .

 

[Aniello]

I checked Jack Hitt's book. According to which he started in June 1993 in SJPP and arrived in Santiago on the day before 25 July 1993. So he could have. Small doubts linger ... .

Bene..allora ora dobbiamo scoprire quando il sign ramon si è ammalato...in che mese...

 

[Aniello]

Si bert.la casa è in vendita da molti anni.sono passato da torres del rio ben 9 cammini.nel 2019..sono entrato ed incredibilmente tutto rimasto come nel film..sia la.madonna..che l animale imbalsamato...che il tavolo..è stato come essermi proiettato nel film.

Bert volevo mandartele in.privato ma non mi da l allegato..cmq alcuni scatti sulle scene..

 

[Kathor1]

cmq alcuni scatti sulle scene..

Great photos, @Aniello. Thank you for sharing. So you went on Camino every year for ten years in a row, from 2009 to 2019? Great outfits that you are wearing .

 

[Kathor1]

allora ora dobbiamo scoprire quando il sign ramon si è ammalato...in che mese...

Find out in which month Señor Ramón got ill and left Torres del Rio in 1993 for good? Uff, I thought yesterday I am finished with researching . But then I had an idea. Let's see. It may take a while before I have a result.

As to what inspired Emilio Estevez for the scenes in Torres del Rio - one doesn't even have to read Jack Hitt's book. Emilio spoke about it in one of the many interviews they gave to promote the movie. Quote:

Interviewer: The supporting characters in The Way like El Ramon, were they straight from the research or did you—​

​

Emilio Estevez: Oh, no, El Ramon was from the Jack Hitt book [Off the Road: A Modern-Day Walk Down the Pilgrim’s Route]. That was the source material from which I was inspired to create the Jack character [Nesbitt] and El Ramon was a character that Jack Hitt bumped into when he was out on a communal in the 90s.​

 

[Aniello]

Great photos, @Aniello. Thank you for sharing. So you went on Camino every year for ten years in a row, from 2009 to 2019? Great outfits that you are wearing .

Ciao kathar si ho iniziato con il cammino francese 2009 2010 2011 2013 2014 2015 nel 2016 la via delle plata. nel 2018 l ho fatto due volte il francese sia giugno che agosto..nel 2019 aprile cammino portoghese ad agosto cammino. Francese..sempre in mountain bike.

 

[Kathor1]

The full name of James Nesbitt's character in The Way is "Jack Emerson Stanton".

Jack Hitt's book Off the Road: A Modern-Day Walk Down the Pilgrim's Route into Spain was published in 2005, he had walked in 1993. He is a writer and walked with the intention of writing a book.

Edward F. Stanton's book Road of Stars to Santiago was published in 1994, I don't know when he walked. He is a professor of Spanish at the University of Kentucky.

Stanton describes his encounter with Ramón Sostres in Torres del Rio and spends the night there. He paints a gentler picture of him and gives more details. In the evening, before falling asleep, he worries a little, he had talked with a local couple about his host: How can they be so sure that the rumour about Ramón are only fabrication? I'm stuck with one hell of a host, an innkeeper spookier than Tony Perkins in Psycho. At least there's no bathroom for him to stab me in the shower. Stanton then falls asleep. In the morning he says: I've slept better on this dusty old mattress than anywhere else on the road. My fears seem silly. 'He couldn't hurt a fly', the local couple had said. I feel smaller than a fly for not trusting him.​

Estevez paid homage to Hitchcock in The Way? It looks more like he pinched the idea from Stanton's book.

When Stanton leaves the house he finds a small wooden cross as a present from Ramón Sostres and a note: Good luck, may this protect you on the Road.

Due to COVID-19, online access to Stanton's book has temporarily been made available for free to all users by the University of Kentucky. It costs $39.97 on Amazon.

 

[Aniello]

Kathar questo è materiale che mi ha inviato il segno Pino toniolo pellegrino che ha conosciuto ramon nel 1989 oltre ad avermi detto che il segno. Sostres Ramon Era Una persona speciale ed affabile con i pellegrini..nulla un Che VEDERE con Quello che ha descritto il regista nel film..ti allego del Materiale

 

[Kathor1]

[Translated] Pino Toniolo, a pilgrim who met Ramón in 1989, told me also that Señor Ramón Sostres was a special person who was good-natured and friendly with the pilgrims ... NOT AT ALL like what the film director shows in the movie ... I enclose you some material.

This is marvellous, thank you so much and also thank you to Pino Toniolo! So this is the Famiglia Cristiana magazine from June 1989 with a photo of Ramón Sostres in it. He is standing in front of his house. I reproduce the photo below, together with a screenshot from Google Earth from 2012 to convince any potential doubters that it's really his house and his door . One can see that he is impoverished but had seen better days, as Stanton describes him. And yet he shares his home with pilgrims!

The accompanying text explains: There are those who offer their homes - In Torres del Rio we meet Ramón Sostres, the only private citizen who, along the 750 kilometres of the Camino in Spain, makes his home available to those who pass through (otherwise there are hostels or guest houses run by religious people).

Wonderful!

 

[Deleted member 73526]

Estevez paid homage to Hitchcock in The Way? It looks more like he pinched the idea from Stanton's book.

If Estevez was aware of Stanton's book, I feel more assured of my impression that he gave this scene the Psycho treatment. I thought it was a thought worth sharing. I respect that you disagree.

 

[Kathor1]

If Estevez was aware of Stanton's book, I feel more assured of my impression that he gave this scene the Psycho treatment. I thought it was a thought worth sharing. I respect that you disagree.

OK, I will go as far as to say that the upstairs scene is a nod to Hitchcock. But he didn't come up with the idea himself, he got it from the book.

And thanks for pointing it out. I didn't see it but I can see it now ...

 

[Bert45]

Any significance in the full names of the other pilgrims and of Daniel?
Thomas Eugene Avery, Sarah Marie Anderson, Jost Michael DeWitt, [Jack Emerson Stanton, we already know] and Daniel Alexander Avery.
Surely it would seem a little strange to Father Miguel (the man issuing the compostela to Tom), that a man, when asked his name, gives the wrong name? I would presume that Tom was using Daniel's credencial.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

The full name of James Nesbitt's character in The Way is "Jack Emerson Stanton".

Any significance in the full names of the other pilgrims and of Daniel?

Well, Stanton could be derived from Estevez's older co-star in the movie Repo Man, Harry Dean Stanton. Emerson could come from the American author and philosopher Ralph Waldo Emerson, a walking companion of Henry David Thoreau. Emerson and Stanton are English names, not Irish.

Joost/Jost was based at least partly on a friend or neighbor of Estevez's. Maybe some of Joost's name come from him.

 

[Deleted member 73526]

Emerson and Stanton are English names, not Irish.

The part of Jack was originally written as an English person.

 

[rappahannock_rev]

Kathar questo è materiale che mi ha inviato il segno Pino toniolo pellegrino che ha conosciuto ramon nel 1989 oltre ad avermi detto che il segno. Sostres Ramon Era Una persona speciale ed affabile con i pellegrini..nulla un Che VEDERE con Quello che ha descritto il regista nel film..ti allego del Materiale

My dear Aniello -- I'm grateful to you for your many contributions to this thread, but my Italian is poor enough that I'm missing a great deal of useful information, I'm sure. Molto triste.

 

[Kathor1]

I had forgotten about this thread and all the information that had been collected, in particular thanks to forum member @Aniello.

I'd like to summarise some of the information about Ramón Sostres who welcomed pilgrims in Torres del Rio in the 1980s and 1990s: There are two photos of him, one of them shows him together with pilgrim Pino Toniolo which was taken on 4 Juli 1989 (#85), and the other one was taken in front of his home with house number 8 (post #122). His house is demolished now. He died in 2002. He had a stroke in 1993 (perhaps late in the year) and was transferred to a hospice (ospicio - not ospedale) in Logroño. It is quite likely that he then never returned to Torres del Rio.

The pilgrim Pino Toniolo put a report of his 1989 Camino online. In it, he describes Señor Ramón Sostres as a person who provided accommodation for pilgrims in his own home and as "a modest and simple person"; he agreed to be photographed by Pino Toniolo.

A report about a Camino walk in 1989 that is available online and has lots of photos is quite a rarity. So below is the link for posterity. In Italian.

https://www.pellegrinibelluno.it/filepdf/1989-DiarioSantiago.pdf