What would you change about the CF - if you could?

[Mito]

Perhaps. But fewer people would consider 200 km an easy walk. So there would be fewer people walking it.

And I should add: no requirement would mean an increase in people doing day walks or driving and getting the certificate. What a nightmare!

 

[Mito]

i wish more albergues and cafes were open along the Camino in December and January. I wonder if that would draw more pilgrims that time of year and take some of the pressure/crowd off of the other seasons. The weather can be a little tricky but not that bad IMO except in the mountains I suppose. we had a wonderful experience in December and January seeing the Christmas lights and happy new year. It’s shocking how a few people were out there when I hear about the crowds during the other times of year. Maybe if “off season” were made more welcoming more people would do it then versus other times. You just need the right gear - but that’s true no matter when you go.

I’d love to go in the winter! Was it possible to find lodging that wasn’t too far apart? Say…..15 km? And were albergues well heated? I’m from Maine and prefer cold to heat. I usually do the Camino in March.

 

[Anniesantiago]

I tried to stay there in October 2022 because I remembered it as a wonderful, welcoming albergue. That late in the season I was the only pilgrim and was put up in the biggest room with no heat. After a brief attempt to take a nap and finding out the shower room was also too cold, I left (not asking for a refund) and hoofed it the rest of the way to Pamplona. Sad, but true. There were smaller rooms in the albergue which could have been heated but they didn’t bother. Disappointing. On the subject of snoring: some albergues have rooms for women only. As women are less apt to snore (sorry guys, it’s true) these are much quieter than mixed rooms.

Some of the sweetest places I've stayed had no heat and no hot water.
Example: San Anton
I don't think a lot of pilgrims walk in October - probably turn off the heat to save cash.
For what pilgrims pay it must be difficult to pay the heating bills.

 

[Bradypus]

I’d love to go in the winter! Was it possible to find lodging that wasn’t too far apart? Say…..15 km?

I walked the Frances in January last year. There were a number of stages which had to be a fair bit longer than that. I don't think it could be done in 15km stages in January or February without the use of taxis.

 

[TravellingMan22]

You in a “quiet car?” On the east coast, Amtrak trains have at least one car where you aren’t even permitted a conversation. Heaven!!

No it wasn’t a quiet car, but it was very quiet until two folks started having a ‘heart to heart’ at the top of their voices!! One moved to the next carriage!

Lots of lone travellers and all manner of American life on board. Train went from Seattle to LA so not for the faint hearted especially arriving at LA after midnight though it’s totally cleaned up from the 80s! One chap had done 70 hours on Amtrak this week alone! Defo different vibe compared to Philly to NYC!

 

[Silvermomma]

Wouldn't that just mean that the "crowds" would start at the 200km mark instead of 100km? It would probably be better to get rid of the requirement altogether.

I think fewer "bucket list" do-it-in-a-week people would invest in the extra time.

 

[Silvermomma]

And I should add: no requirement would mean an increase in people doing day walks or driving and getting the certificate. What a nightmare!

Maybe they should stop the certificate thing. I have never picked one up. Maybe someone can open an Etsy shop and make them, LOL.

 

[easonm]

I’d love to go in the winter! Was it possible to find lodging that wasn’t too far apart? Say…..15 km? And were albergues well heated? I’m from Maine and prefer cold to heat. I usually do the Camino in March.

I can only speak for the short walk from Sarria but most of the albergues were closed between xmas & new year. I’m glad I booked in advance and booked hotels and of course they were heated and totally fine - with 15mi our longest day. I can’t speak for the other parts of the Camino but from Sarria to Santiago, it was a dead zone in terms of albergues and cafés. Almost everything Cerrado the whole way. on the plus side we had the Camino to ourselves and got to see a lot of pretty Christmas lights. It’s understandable of course that the locals/hosts want some time off.

 

[davejsy]

Wouldn't that just mean that the "crowds" would start at the 200km mark instead of 100km? It would probably be better to get rid of the requirement altogether.

It is interesting though that gaining the Compostela is obviously the driving force for the last 100km popularity, otherwise the problem wouldn't exist. So scrapping the Compostela would be interesting to see what effect it had.

 

[Paul.W]

They heard of Benidorm and that is why they don't serve a English Breakfast

Hahaha Agreed

 

[Molly Cassidy]

It is interesting though that gaining the Compostela is obviously the driving force for the last 100km popularity, otherwise the problem wouldn't exist. So scrapping the Compostela would be interesting to see what effect it had.

I expect the tour companies would just make their own certificates and people would be happy with that.

 

[C clearly]

It is interesting though that gaining the Compostela is obviously the driving force for the last 100km popularity,

I am not so sure of that. Spaniards make up the vast majority of the walkers from Sarria, and that distance is quite convenient for them to walk in a week or less. I suspect that most of them would continue to walk that segment, and would be satisfied with a Welcome Certificate or Distance Certificate.

 

[Bradypus]

I am not so sure of that. Spaniards make up the vast majority of the walkers from Sarria, and that distance is quite convenient for them to walk in a week or less. I suspect that most of them would continue to walk that segment, and would be satisfied with a Welcome Certificate or Distance Certificate.

I walked my first Camino before the 100km minimum rule was introduced. Sarria had no special significance at that time and it was not common for people to choose it as a starting point. Most people then chose to walk longer distances than on average today. I think that the immense growth in numbers only walking that final section is very closely tied to the minimum distance requirement for a Compostela.

 

[Charles Ross]

Ok, I realize this is an old thread and i might be talking to myself but I missed the conversation first time around. Here's my wish list: Change the Compostela requirements from distance to time: In order to achieve the certificate one must show 30 days of stamps on your pilgrim passport. In addition it should be required that pilgrims declare at least some sense of spiritual/religious motivation for doing this walk in order to receive the certificate. The pilgrimage itself should be advertised by all, Spanish government, advocates, clubs, this forum as a long distance walk. It take's 30 days + to walk from SJpdP and a bit less from Pamplona. Pilgrims should come out of the experience thinking 'that's just about the most amazing experience I've ever had' Doing the 100 clicks doesn't qualify for that feeling and if it does I feel sorry for you. Albergues should require the dates that reflect this devotion. Showing up in Burgos with a shiny new passport? 'No thanks, maybe at the end of the day if we have room.' Need reservations for 8? 'Sorry, the Holiday Inn is down the road about 30 Km . . . try them'. Less Disney Cruise, more, 'I'm so happy to have this backpack off of me'!!!

 

[Tincatinker]

As you infer the Compostela is an award for walking 100km on a recognized route into Santiago and collecting the required number of sellos.

It has absolutely bugger-all to do with the motivations of Pilgrims, or for that matter Long Distance Hikers.

People who want a Compostela can get one with a simple qualifying process. People who don’t want a Compostela have no skin in that game. People who want a different, more exclusive, beyond the red-rope Compostela really need to sit down and think very hard as to why.

 

[Bradypus]

It has absolutely bugger-all to do with the motivations of Pilgrims, or for that matter Long Distance Hikers.

It used to. And the text still talks about religious or spiritual motives. But in practice you are right. Probably time for a rewrite to fit the current reality or just drop the thing altogether.

 

[Jim Porter]

Ok, so inspired by the "Has the Camino lost it's way" thread. What would people change to the current Camino (CF) to make it better in their own eyes/opinion whatever that may be (without breaking any forum rules obvs)? It could be stuff like removing or increasing the 100km etc.

As most of you probably know, I loved my recent CF, but there were a few things I'd like to see different.

I can start with this:

Where major roads/motorways/railways have been built through or close to the Camino, where feasible the Camino could be routed further from these. Where not feasible maybe more could be done to lessen the impact by planting trees or similar to lessen the noise effects? I understand some drudgery is part of the Camino such as the walks in to the cities etc and it has it's place and not what I'd change, but things like the above that are cut through the countryside could be made better I think.

 

[Jim Porter]

I would like to suggest a voluntary Camino "users fee," that would be used to support localized maintenance of the towns and trails. All of us are disturbed at the growing amount of trash along the way—in this way the users (i.e. "litterers") could underwrite the local villages, towns and cities by offering a way to pay for the trail maintenance and upkeep that our presence is making necessary. Rebekkah Scott and the "trail pigs" program might be something that could be duplicated all along the Way—with funding.

 

[VNwalking]

What would I change?
End co-ed dorms.
And make entitled people with suitcases (and attitudes too big to fit inside them) stay in hotels. They can afford it.
It's never going to happen, but I can wish it anyway.

 

[Sue127]

It used to. And the text still talks about religious or spiritual motives. But in practice you are right. Probably time for a rewrite to fit the current reality or just drop the thing altogether.

I would think that taking away the Compostela as a "reward" for 100km would certainly free up some more beds! Or maybe it could only be offered from Sarria, making all the other 100k; sites less busy?

 

[CWBuff]

What would I change?
End co-ed dorms.

Why?

 

[trecile]

Or maybe it could only be offered from Sarria, making all the other 100k; sites less busy?

One of the problems with the Camino Francés is how busy it is between Sarria and Santiago. This would make it worse!

 

[Paladina]

What would I change?
End co-ed dorms.
And make entitled people with suitcases (and attitudes too big to fit inside them) stay in hotels. They can afford it.
It's never going to happen, but I can wish it anyway.

Wishful thinking or just overt sex-discrimination? The single-sex rule, if imposed on small albergues, would lead to unused capacity and/or exclusion of the disfavoured sex or gender. In albergues on any Camino route I’ve travelled, I have never encountered disrespect to the opposite sex. I haven’t observed any suitcases either, but perhaps I was too tired to notice them.

 

[VNwalking]

Wishful thinking or just overt sex-discrimination?

Why

Wishful thinking for sure.
And it's not 'overt sex-discrimination,' just a preference to feel comfortable sleeping. If you've lived 2 decades in a monastic community with genders strictly separated, it's quite uncomfortable to be exposed to semi-naked strangers of the opposite sex.

Suitcases are there for sure, on the Francés. At least they were last April when I joined it off the Primitivo.

 

[Paladina]

If you've lived 2 decades in a monastic community with genders strictly separated, it's quite uncomfortable to be exposed to semi-naked strangers of the opposite sex.

I didn’t notice any semi-naked strangers either, but long exposure, at least in a typical Irish summer, to what, even in my non-cloistered youth, was regarded as beachwear may have desensitised me to contemporary dress codes.

 

[Sue127]

One of the problems with the Camino Francés is how busy it is between Sarria and Santiago. This would make it worse!

I understand that, but it would free up other Caminos. How about a "new" Compostela camino, with no historical significance but would take many "bucket list" walkers away from the Frances? (written with tongue in cheek).

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

Why?

I turn the question around, why co-ed dorms ?

 

[Paladina]

I turn the question around, why co-ed dorms ?

Probably to make the most economical use of space. Even the scrupulous Margery Kempe tolerated co-habitation on the Camino.

 

[VNwalking]

I didn’t notice any semi-naked strangers either

You haven't? I've only walked 8 caminos, but have seen this many times - middle aged men (Europeans, mostly) in underwear. It's one thing on a beach, quite another in tight quarters in a dorm room.

The suitcases are a more recent phenomenon; I never saw collections of them at albergue doors before this year.

 

[CWBuff]

Probably to make the most economical use of space. Even the scrupulous Margery Kempe tolerated co-habitation on the Camino.

what she said

 

[CWBuff]

The suitcases are a more recent phenomenon; I never saw collections of them at albergue doors before this year.

well... not having co-ed dorms probably wont do much to this issue

 

[Tincatinker]

The co-ed thing comes up from time to time. Thrashed here: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/have-i-gotten-the-wrong-idea.39711/#post-398845 And previously in other linked threads.

I do have an appreciation of @VNwalking ’s discomfort. I never knew skirts could be that short and still qualify until I started picking up grandchildren from school. I’ve forsworn the mud-wrestling at a couple of men’s-group things. And I’ve never thrown my car keys in the basket. Not even in Baltimore. But the gender-neutral common space of Albergue is, for me, a crucial part of the Camino/Pilgrim experience. And yes, I’ve seen the wide-eyed astonishment of those who have not acquired “custody of the eyes”. I’ve listened, though not looked, at the exertions of those trying to perform a full outfit change in the confines of a tapered sleeping bag. I remember a female caver appearing in the showers at Dolawen explaining that the water was running cold in the women’s. Someone passed her the soap and we all rinsed and left.

We are all the same apart from a few obvious differences that shouldn’t really make any difference at all except in very particular circumstances. Circumstances that I do not expect to arise in a communal space. And if they do: well there’s usually a bucket of cold water somewhere handy

 

[VNwalking]

well... not having co-ed dorms probably wont do much to this issue

Of course not. They're two different things, clearly.

@Tincatinker, point taken. And...I always appreciate women's only rooms when they're offered. That's just more comfortable for me.
(The added benefit being that there's usually less snoring. Or at least it's quieter. But that's another story.)

 

[J Willhaus]

Of course not. They're two different things, clearly.

@Tincatinker, point taken. And...I always appreciate women's only rooms when they're offered. That's just more comfortable for me.
(The added benefit being that there's usually less snoring. Or at least it's quieter. But that's another story.)

Ah, but not always! Our first Camino, Phil was wearing his CPAP which prevents snoring in a dorm with 10 women (including me before my CPAP) and was awakened to a chorus of international snoring throughout the night. Usually less snoring but not always!

 

[Arctic_Alex]

Wishful thinking for sure.
And it's not 'overt sex-discrimination,' just a preference to feel comfortable sleeping. If you've lived 2 decades in a monastic community with genders strictly separated, it's quite uncomfortable to be exposed to semi-naked strangers of the opposite sex.

Living in a country where we most of the time use mixed gender saunas, totally naked, all ages, mixed does stir no emotions for me and does not make me feel uneasy at all.
BUT of course I understand and respect that this feels very different for other people, depending on what they are used to.

Mixed dorms are most economical though. That is the main diving force behind it I would suspect.

Suitcases are there for sure, on the Francés. At least they were last April when I joined it off the Primitivo.

And I understand the frustration it sometimes causes ...

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Living in a country where we most of the time use mixed gender saunas, totally naked, all ages, mixed does stir no emotions for me and does not make me feel uneasy at all

I have never heard of this; topless/naked beaches and nudist colonies I've heard of, but side by side naked in mixed gender saunas? "No way" for me!

 

[J Willhaus]

Lots of naked spas in Germany. It takes some getting used to for people from more modest cultures.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Lots of naked spas in Germany. It takes some getting used to for people from more modest cultures.

Even some here in Greece.

 

[Bradypus]

Lots of naked spas in Germany. It takes some getting used to for people from more modest cultures.

I spent some time in Germany with the British Army and had a membership in a large gym/swimming pool/sauna complex. It did take a little getting used to for this 1960s vintage small town Scot but the initial embarrassment did pass. Personally I am no longer troubled by brief moments of nudity in albergue dormitories while someone is changing clothes though I do feel that people should be aware of others and sensitive to different opinions.

 

[TravellingMan22]

I have never heard of this; topless/naked beaches and nudist colonies I've heard of, but side by side naked in mixed gender saunas? "No way" for me!

Topical as been in one today in Germany. Feels fine and no big deal to me but understand why it would unnerve some cultures. It’s incredibly freeing! Germany does fantastic wellness centres btw! Just outstanding! They take it very seriously!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

It’s incredibly freeing!

I have done some nighttime skinny dipping at lakes, and wow, it is really freeing, especially for a woman who never swims without a swimsuit on...Loved it!

 

[TravellingMan22]

I have done some nighttime skinny dipping at lakes, and wow, it is really freeing, especially for a woman who never swims without a swimsuit on...Loved it!

Yes it’s amazing the change mentally!! It’s about the most ‘freeing’ thing I do! I am not a sunbather but love swimming in the sea and always seek out clothing optional beaches to swim. Thankfully no shortage in many parts of Europe!

 

[NadineK]

Wishful thinking for sure.
And it's not 'overt sex-discrimination,' just a preference to feel comfortable sleeping. If you've lived 2 decades in a monastic community with genders strictly separated, it's quite uncomfortable to be exposed to semi-naked strangers of the opposite sex.

Suitcases are there for sure, on the Francés. At least they were last April when I joined it off the Primitivo.

I generally love staying in albergues when walking a Camino, appreciating that it's a big part of my pilgrimage experience, and aside from the usual discomforts (smells, sounds, sights), haven't had any problems. The most uncomfortable experience for me was arriving last to an albergue that had bunks pushed together so that I was basically sleeping in a double bed with a man who I hadn't encountered before. It was all fine, just not the most ideal sleeping situation (so maybe THAT'S what I'd change about the CF? No bunks pushed together?)

All that being said, I recently walked one of St Olavs Ways in Norway this summer, and I was struck by how thoughtful and mindful my hosts were when deciding on sleeping arrangements. The pilgrimage through Norway is different in many ways from the Camino, with infrastructure differences and of course cultural differences as well. But for most of the way, hosts separated men and women when choosing rooms and sleeping spaces for us, and after a few weeks of this I realized that I was more comfortable and relaxed in a way that I'm not *quite* in the albergues on a Camino. Many of the pilgrim accommodations in Norway had several (smaller) rooms to use for sleeping arrangements, so at times it was easier to separate by gender, or for hosts to check in with us to make sure we were comfortable with our "bunk buddies" (though, for the record, there were rarely bunk beds on the Olavsleden!). This is a different set up than many albergues on the Camino, which can tend towards fewer rooms for sleeping (often just one), larger with more bunks, etc, so I know this is nearly impossible to do on a Camino.

TLDR: I do really like the albergue experience on the Camino, and while personally I wouldn't go so far as saying I wish for gender-separate dorms... @VNwalking 's comment got me thinking.

 

[SabsP]

I have never heard of this; topless/naked beaches and nudist colonies I've heard of, but side by side naked in mixed gender saunas? "No way" for me!

Quite common in my country. I personally do not mind but can imagine it is a big no for others.
Rest assured there are quite some " rules " to keep it a safe place.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Quite common in my country. I personally do not mind but can imagine it is a big no for others.
Rest assured there are quite some " rules " to keep it a safe place.

Out of curiosity, does everyone (both sexes) remove the towel they walked into the sauna with?

 

[SabsP]

Out of curiosity, does everyone (both sexes) remove the towel they walked into the sauna with?

Not all. Bathrobes will be hung on the hangers outside. And there are loads of people who keep a towel discretely on top of their more intimate parts.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Not all. Bathrobes will be hung on the hangers outside. And there are loads of people who keep a towel discretely on top of their more intimate parts.

Whew! That sounds a tad better to me!

 

[Tincatinker]

Rownhams (Church of England) Primary School. My final year, 11plus year. The nice Nit-nurse turned up but this time she wasn’t interested in my hair. “Drop your shorts and underwear”. A quick count of my available testicles. A nod to her companion and Miss White and I was instructed to return to class. No one said whether I should pull my pants up but I guessed I should.

When we were diving for Spider Crab in Lyme Bay we always dived naked. It helps to focus the mind.

Windsor Free Festival 1972 we were running a food kitchen and the only source of water was the Shel Garage on the bypass. We’d drive our truck, full of any available water container to the garage, fill up and drive back to the festival site. We’d give water to anyone who asked.

Every trip, into town and then on the way back Thames Valley Constabulary would stop the truck and process us through a strip-search and a dog sniff and now and again they’d tipped away all the water. Life goes on. Around about the third day the three of us stripped naked and drove the truck down into town. We got flagged down as usual. We got out of the truck and were immediately ordered to get back in and waved on. The lovely guy who ran the petrol station and who had refused to turn off the water supply laughed like a happy man does as we filled all our containers from his tap. Quite what his other customers made of the spectacle I’ll never know. I guess they were all only seeing something they’d already seen even if the context was a little odd.

Thames Valley didn’t bother with our water runs after that and we kept our clothes on. Context is everything.

 

[TravellingMan22]

Whew! That sounds a tad better to me!

But that’s Belgium not Germany which is on a different level altogether, with its massive complexes witn 20-30 saunas and whirlpools, it saunameisters, and its Aufguss routines where you sit in a sauna whilst the sauna master swings the towel and you may even have to briefly leave the sauna halfway through to apply some sort of potion or lotion. Trust me there is no hiding place if you have concerns!!! But as I say no one seems to cares less. It’s all become very normal very quickly! It’s a great experience. A few of us went back today (it’s a cold grey day in Berlin and there’s not even any football on!). Even had a swim up bar!!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

TMan22, I'll stick with the pleasure of skinny dipping in the dark of night, which I do about once every five+ years.

 

[TravellingMan22]

TMan22, I'll stick with the pleasure of skinny dipping in the dark of night, which I do about once every five+ years.

Sensible lady if I may say so!!

 

[SabsP]

Whew! That sounds a tad better to me!

It really is very decent. There are also saunas that have days with strictly " bathing suits on" .

But that’s Belgium not Germany which is on a different level altogether, with its massive complexes witn 20-30 saunas and whirlpools, it saunameisters, and its Aufguss routines where you sit in a sauna whilst the sauna master swings the towel and you may even have to briefly leave the sauna halfway through to apply some sort of potion or lotion. Trust me there is no hiding place if you have concerns!!! But as I say no one seems to cares less. It’s all become very normal very quickly! It’s a great experience. A few of us went back today (it’s a cold grey day in Berlin and there’s not even any football on!). Even had a swim up bar!!

We have those here too ( and in the Netherlands ) but I will not derail the thread any further so back on topic.

 

[TravellingMan22]

It really is very decent. There are also saunas that have days with strictly " bathing suits on" .


We have those here too ( and in the Netherlands ) but I will not derail the thread any further so back on topic.

Sure agreed! Thx!

 

[Arctic_Alex]

I have never heard of this; topless/naked beaches and nudist colonies I've heard of, but side by side naked in mixed gender saunas? "No way" for me!

I did not grow up with this and when younger I would have reacted like you. I grew up in a region of Germany where sauna was not a thing. But when I moved to a part of Eastern Germany where it was very common and it kind of became natural for me. In my job I happened to work with groups of Russians and they were also very relaxed .... and now i live in Northern Sweden, if it is not in a tourist hotel but a more remote setting in the mountain cabins you might have different times for different genders, but the time for men often is actually a mixed sauna time. With total strangers.

 

[alexwalker]

Ok, so inspired by the "Has the Camino lost it's way" thread. What would people change to the current Camino (CF) to make it better in their own eyes/opinion whatever that may be (without breaking any forum rules obvs)? It could be stuff like removing or increasing the 100km etc.

As most of you probably know, I loved my recent CF, but there were a few things I'd like to see different.

I can start with this:

Where major roads/motorways/railways have been built through or close to the Camino, where feasible the Camino could be routed further from these. Where not feasible maybe more could be done to lessen the impact by planting trees or similar to lessen the noise effects? I understand some drudgery is part of the Camino such as the walks in to the cities etc and it has it's place and not what I'd change, but things like the above that are cut through the countryside could be made better I think.

Back on topic:

"What would you change about the CF - if you could?"​

I would add a few 100 kms to make it last longer... Maybe a turn down to Merida (on the Via de la Plata) from Triacastela, f.ex. and then back up again to the Sanabres. Eliminating the Sarria hype.