What the ......

[Lexicos]

J’ai ecrit un article sur le Camino pour 20 de mes amis. J’y mets du texte, des photos et de la musique. J’y mets mon coeur et mon ame. Une personne vous a dit merci. Rien de reste. Dans quelle sorte de monde sans vie, sans esprit et sans amour vivone-nous? Ca me donne envie de marcher non seulement sur le Camino, mais partout dans le monde!

I wrote an article on the Camino for 20 of my friends. I put text, photos and music on it. I put my heart and my soul into it. Someone said thank you. Nothing remains. In what kind of lifeless, spiritless and loveless world do we live? It makes me want to walk not only on the Camino, but all over the world!

 

[Robo]

Here on the Forum, on a Blog?

 

[VNwalking]

Oh, disappointment!
But did you write it to get thanks from others, or did you write it for your heart and soul?

 

[Lexicos]

In an email. And to share something out of the ordinary. To give something, basically.

 

[Lexicos]

Doesn't matter ......... a trivial affair in the scheme of things.

 

[pelerine]

Si tu as mis ton coeur et ton âme dans ton mail, j’imagine il est assez long. Peut-être les autres amis n’avaient pas encore le temps de le regarder/écouter. Et tu sais que très vite d’autres mails se tassent par dessus et ton mail disparaît dans le tas. Quand je n’ai pas le temps de m’ccuper d’un mail je le marque sur un papier avec la date pour le retrouver plus tard.

C’est dommage, mais après tout comme tu dis “What the .....”

If you put your heart and your soul in your mail, I imagine it is quite long. Maybe the other friends didn't have time to watch / listen to it yet. And you know that very quickly other emails pile up and your email disappears in the heap. When I don’t have time to worry about an email I mark it on a piece of paper with the date to find it later.

It's a shame, but after all like you say "What the ....."

 

[Kitsambler]

If you look in your "Sent" folder, you will probably find a copy.

 

[Bala]

@Lexicos yes, it's very disappointing to put heart and soul into something that means so much to you and recieve little response in return. I know only too well. But the sad fact is that no one cares about our journeys in the way we do, no matter how enthusiastic they may sound at first. I've had many friends say they absolutely can't wait to hear all about where I've been or what I've done, but after the first two, maybe three, photos the conversation turns to something else and never comes back.

It's not that they don't care. It's just that that they don't relate. They're very happy and very excited for me, and some have even bragged to others about my Camino. But a brief description and a photo or two is sufficient. And, honestly, I don't need much more than that on the trips or life events that in turn mean so much to them.

Well, that's a long-winded way of saying many of us relate to your disappointment and the lack of response from others to your work. Bottom line is you've created a beautiful document for yourself that recalls just exactly what you want to preserve. Perhaps you can post a link to your video on the forum, or on some of the Camino Facebook pages. Most of us camino addicts can't get enough.

 

[Lexicos]

How right you are Bala. This line from Shakespeare comes to mind: There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Thanks.

 

[Texas Walker]

A thought for the OP: when you recover it from the Sent folder, archive that thing!
On the Camino Portugues we encountered a gentleman from Quebec. He said, when he returned from his (first?) camino, he wanted to talk about it and everyone was, like, "glad you had a nice vacation, now shut up about it." Which we have noticed where we live also, people who have never done any pilgrimage trivialize it as just a vacation. The gentleman from Quebec started a Camino club in his area so he and other pilgrims could talk about it without offending everyone.
Perhaps the OP can hook up with or start one too?

 

[Theatregal]

In an email. And to share something out of the ordinary. To give something, basically.

Hi @Lexicos
I'm trying to understand what you mean by "nothing remains". Do you mean that you didn't save a copy of what you wrote? Or do you mean that because you didn't receive the responses that you expected to what you shared, the sharing means nothing? That "nothing remains" emotionally?

To add to what @pelerine writes above about email communication. Sometimes a message of importance isn't something I can respond to so immediately. I may receive a letter and not respond until I've had time to read, reflect and share my thoughts. I may even wait for time to talk personally with a friend about something that is emotionally important. If I've written to a friend and don't hear back immediately, I trust and assume that it's because they are busy with the demands of their own lives. Especially in these times.

It sounds like your camino experience was powerful - it's wonderful you wrote about it and will always have it clear and strong in your heart. I hope that you will have many more chances to "walk not only on the Camino, but all over the world."

 

[VNwalking]

If you were to post the article here, @Lexicos, no doubt there would be a lot of folks who would really appreciate seeing it.

 

[C clearly]

I wrote an article on the Camino for 20 of my friends. I put text, photos and music on it. I put my heart and my soul into it.

Is it possible that the email was too large and did not reach the recipients, or it went to their Junk mail? I would be cautious if I received photos and music links in an email from an acquaintance. (I don't have anywhere close to 20 friends that I would send a detailed personal email to.)

Perhaps you could consider setting up a blog (e.g. using Wordpress) where the people who are interested can go to read your writing. That way, you can enjoy the writing and preparation, without "pushing" it on others. They can subscribe to your blog and be notified whenever you post something new. You have the blog posts to review and enjoy any time, and also you would be surprised at how many new virtual friends you make.

 

[Rex]

So many of these comments carry wisdom that I wish I'd possessed when I wrote my blog along the CF several years ago. When I returned home, two of my siblings had read the posts, along with a couple of friends. Most of the circle of people who had signed up to read my blog lost interest quickly and never responded. I figured it was meant for me to memorialize my experience on the CF, but it was clear that it mattered not so much to busy others in my life.
Five years later(!!), I was at a college class reunion and someone I did not know came up to me and told me how meaningful my blog had been to her at a difficult time in her life. Turns out, she is married to a classmate (I was unaware of that fact) and she works for one of my siblings in his medical practice. She and her husband have since walked the CF.
When I write about other treks, now, I figure the experience is like casting bread upon the waters and one doesn't know where it goes... Keep the faith and keep on trekking!
Bom Caminho!

 

[Bala]

So true, @Rex . We never know who will hear our words, read our posts, be touched and changed by a small act or gesture we may not even remember. Many times, not the person we expected. Often, someone we don't even know. How nice that one of those "unknowns" met you and was able to share how much your journey meant to her and her husband. And through them, maybe someone else heard the call, as well.

@Lexicos , this could well happen with one of the emails you sent out. Take heart!

 

[marilyn van graan]

@Lexicos yes, it's very disappointing to put heart and soul into something that means so much to you and recieve little response in return. I know only too well. But the sad fact is that no one cares about our journeys in the way we do, no matter how enthusiastic they may sound at first. I've had many friends say they absolutely can't wait to hear all about where I've been or what I've done, but after the first two, maybe three, photos the conversation turns to something else and never comes back.

It's not that they don't care. It's just that that they don't relate. They're very happy and very excited for me, and some have even bragged to others about my Camino. But a brief description and a photo or two is sufficient. And, honestly, I don't need much more than that on the trips or life events that in turn mean so much to them.

Well, that's a long-winded way of saying many of us relate to your disappointment and the lack of response from others to your work. Bottom line is you've created a beautiful document for yourself that recalls just exactly what you want to preserve. Perhaps you can post a link to your video on the forum, or on some of the Camino Facebook pages. Most of us camino addicts can't get enough.

Well said and I am sure that many of us can relate to this - not even my immediate family pay much heed to my amazing caminos - but who cares I am certainly the one who benefitted from them and I can't expect them to share my enthusiasm but you know what - my darling grandchildren do. Now I am taking them along one by one to feel the joy and experience what a camino is all about - one down two to go!! Oh I can't wait to get back on the road again!!XX

 

[Rozenn]

I am not surprised by your experience ! I spent 25 years of my life as an expatriate with my family , in many different beautiful and thrilling countries ! I remember how disappointed I was each summer going back to my birthday place .. no one even close relatives would focus and listen to me more than the day of our arrival and I don’t speak about watching photos or videos !!
I learnt that I can only share with expatriates like me who went through the same kind of life
That’s why I just keep to myself my pictures of the Camino, the writings but I have it all nicely available for my connected friends on Facebook and once in awhile I have some likes or comments ! It s fine that way .. no energy to force anyone !
I think the way I had when a young woman to just shake the routine of friends and family who were not as lucky to travel , was too much to take

 

[Rozenn]

But on this forum you will get all the attention you long for !

 

[Robo]

Friends and Family soon tire of hearing our Camino stories.....
That's why we come here to share them

It's the same with any topic that we are passionate about.
My Sister knows (after 50 years) that we don't want to constantly hear the horse stories.
My Brother knows we don't really want to hear any stories about the latest gig of the bands he follows (he's 70)
I know they are not interested in Camino stories. One was interesting and was enough.

In the same way, as a retired soldier of 22 years service (I retired 25 years ago) I very very rarely mention anything from those days. Only to those who have had similar experiences. Because non soldiers firstly just don't get it, and secondly can't possibly comprehend what those experiences were like. Even my wife of 20 years knows very little of what I did and quite frankly has little interest in it. Why would she?

"Birds of a Feather Flock Together" Here

I hope you find your email so you can share it here....

 

[Lexicos]

That one voice in the crowd was enough, plenty for me.

 

[Robo]

We share our stories with those who we hope might gain something from them, but more so perhaps, for what they will help us, the teller, understand from them. We can learn in the telling. So we need to share them with those who will listen, and quite often that might not even be .... a person...

 

[Stivandrer]

Today in the gentle drizzle of a rainy day, a shopping tourist in my town noticed the scallop tattoo on my left calf and we started chatting.
He went on some part of the Way some years ago to support his young son and so on...
Those who have the longing in his...or her heart, will listen, is my humble opinion...

Myself, I couldn´t care less whether it is tragedy there has been no football championships this summer..
- what a sweet waste of time...
The interest for our personal exploits on the Camino is spread evenly thin over the rest of humanity, but there is always the one who is inquisitive....

The conversation, however, made me buy a wedge of Queso Manchego by the cheese vendor at the square and then some red wine...

 

[Old Bamboo]

I can so relate to your frustration having experienced that same treatment for years. The sad but true fact is no one is really interested other than fellow pilgrims. And unfortunately there are few of those around other than online.

 

[john newman]

Ils ne comprendent pas.
C’est tout

They do not understand.
That's all

 

[Former member 49149]

@Lexicos, I read your post above a few days ago, and have been intermittently reading replies. At this moment, before I post something on another thread, I have a little time to reply. First though, I want to thank you for your various thought provoking messages in recent days and weeks. It is clear from replies to this post that you have found an ideal group of people who will listen and respond, even if your nearest and dearest yawn and slink away!
I do hope you don't mind me saying this: in June 1978 I returned from a life changing period of a year in two other countries - Philippines and USA. On my return, I was invited by some groups of people to share a meal and talk about my experience. After about five minutes, the conversation moved quickly on to the weather, the news, what have you. A lesson I learned quickly and have not forgotten! I can hear my father's voice: pearls before swine... he was not given to wasting energy on lost causes... so, turn it round.
I wrote an article on the Camino for 20 of my friends. I put text, photos and music in it. I put my heart and my soul into it. One person said thank you. Nothing from the rest. In what kind of lifeless, spiritless and loveless world do we live? It makes me want to walk not only on the Camino, but all over the world!
Be glad that you have captured something so dear to you in a way that you can take it out, dust it down, pay attention to it, for years and years to come. Some people asked that you share it here. I would love to see it. I imagine if you know how to use dropbox you could post a link to just that file, and post it here. Would that work? Equally, a Wordpress blog or similar would also serve. Or just copy the words and some of the photos, that would work too. Did you ever see a film named Baraka? The word can be translated as Blessing, I gather. At the beginning there are some shots of a primate, emerging from the water, taking bearings, and looking the world straight in the eye. For some reason, I am thinking of that, now. I guess it has something to do with how we humans need recognition, and I am sorry you did not get much of that from the people you wanted it from - but you certainly have it here! Count on it...

 

[Robo]

Be glad that you have captured something so dear to you in a way that you can take it out, dust it down, pay attention to it, for years and years to come.

How true.
When I wrote my first Camino blog it was just an easy way for folks back home to follow my progress.
It became much more though.
I'm mainly the one who reads it.
To remember, to relive, to remind myself of what I learned...

I look forward to reading yours @Lexicos

 

[Paladina]

I understand your disillusionment @Lexicos at discovering that not everyone responds favourably to unsolicited Camino accounts - I've been there too! - but I wonder whether your friends' failure to respond speaks for itself. When I was a child, every Christmas a great aunt would send me a box of New Berry Fruits - disgusting sugar-coated synthetic fruit jellies. These should have been a treat as I was not allowed sweets at any other time. Unfortunately, I was profoundly ungrateful for what I did not want to receive. One year, I forgot to write the obligatory letter of thanks, as a result of which offence I received no more of the vile offerings. Another quotation from Hamlet comes to mind: 'For this relief much thanks'.

 

[Old Bamboo]

I am not surprised by your experience ! I spent 25 years of my life as an expatriate with my family , in many different beautiful and thrilling countries ! I remember how disappointed I was each summer going back to my birthday place .. no one even close relatives would focus and listen to me more than the day of our arrival and I don’t speak about watching photos or videos !!
I learnt that I can only share with expatriates like me who went through the same kind of life
That’s why I just keep to myself my pictures of the Camino, the writings but I have it all nicely available for my connected friends on Facebook and once in awhile I have some likes or comments ! It s fine that way .. no energy to force anyone !
I think the way I had when a young woman to just shake the routine of friends and family who were not as lucky to travel , was too much to take

Finally someone else who understands! With 40 years as an Expat living and travelling in exotic and interesting countries, not one relative has ever asked me anything about life or experiences in those places. Whenever I'd try to show some videos or photos i was met with boredom after about 30 seconds. Finally i accepted that they just aren't interested at all and now whenever i go back to see the family i mostly keep my mouth shut, instead just reminisce with them about the old days like they all want to do. It used to bother me--i know if I'd had a relative who'd seen some of the world i would've been all ears. But apparently you and i are unique.

 

[Lexicos]

That's not uncommon, fellow traveller. But it makes sense, how else could it be? The more knowledge and experience you acquire, the more you see and do ( and there's a lot to see and do in this big world) the more distance you put between yourself and the people around you. Anyone who has lived in another country for any length of time will know this to be true. The fact is, you pay a price for expanding your universe, it doesn't come for free. Nothing does, by the way. As you expand your "universe bubble" it takes you further and further from those little celestial bodies that are stationary, i.e. your family and friends. Their world, for the most part, stays the same. So when you talk to them about your Camino, your travels, your adventures, they're immediately out of their depth. It can be alienating for them, or threatening or it may pique their envy or cause discomfort because suddenly they contrast their lives with yours. It can't be a nice feeling to know that you've missed out on the big life. I mean life beyond our home, beyond our suburb, beyond our neighbourhood and beyond our country. And if you're highly educated to boot, you've lived life beyond our present times. Let's be blunt, let's be frank; it puts you in a special class (I don't mean upper class). There's nothing lonelier I'm guessing than being a person who is highly educated, well travelled and versed in many languages. It puts you well beyond the realm of many people in terms of how you view and experience the world. Now try and explain that to someone who's never left, or never had the good fortune, to travel beyond their little neighbourhood. You'll be wasting your time. Exactly as you have said. And that, my fellow pilgrim, is the price we all pay for our long and reflective walks along the Frances, the Portuguese, the El Norte and so forth. In other words, it can get cold and lonely at the top of the mountain but Mon Dieu, what a view!

 

[Rozenn]

C est tout a fait ça!! Merci

 

[dougfitz]

I for one would like to clearly distance myself from some of what I think are arrogant and elitist sentiments expressed in this latest post, and also of some of the sentiments in the original post, both of which I have included here as a matter of record.

For a start, I don't think that my neighbourhood and its inhabitants are lifeless, spiritless and loveless. Nor do I think that of my friends, and I would hope never to toss them under a bus for what might have been some cheap dramatic purpose as was done to start this thread. I think that would make me a very horrible friend either way one looks at it.

I will never be highly educated in the way suggested here, not having being educated in the way suggested, not having pursued studies of history, arts and the classics. What an arrogant snub to anyone who hasn't done so, the doctors, engineers, scientists and economists who, it seems to me, have made just as important contributions to our modern world.

So I am glad that I will never be considered for this so-called 'special class'. There is nothing in the pilgrimages that I have undertaken or the contributions that I make to help my fellow pilgrims that makes me special, nor do I expect there to be special privileges because of what I have done. I reject the elitist underpinnings of the very idea. My enthusiasm for the Camino and other pilgrimages is based on their fundamentally egalitarian and inclusive nature, not that they are an entree card to some elite.

I think it sad that the many contributions of other forum members along the way have been rewarded in this way. That there have been so many thoughtful and reflective contributions is a testament to the willingness of forum members to assist others. But I don't think anything others have said here would have led me to expect this.

Finally, I think @Rozenn put it most aptly, and I have attached her post as well.

That's not uncommon, fellow traveller. But it makes sense, how else could it be? The more knowledge and experience you acquire, the more you see and do (and there's a lot to see and do in this big world) the more distance you put between yourself and the people around you. Anyone who has lived in another country for any length of time will know this to be true. The fact is, you pay a price for expanding your universe, it doesn't come for free. Nothing does, by the way. As you expand your "universe bubble" it takes you further and further from those little celestial bodies that are stationary, i.e. your family and friends. Their world, for the most part, stays the same. So when you talk to them about your Camino, your travels, your adventures, they're immediately out of their depth. It can be alienating for them, or threatening or it may pique their envy or cause discomfort because suddenly they contrast their lives with yours. It can't be a nice feeling to know that you've missed out on the big life. I mean life beyond our home, beyond our suburb, beyond our neighbourhood and beyond our country. And if you're highly educated to boot, in history and art and the classics, you've lived a thousand lives and a life well beyond the present. Let's be blunt, let's be frank; it puts you in a special class (I don't mean upper class). There's nothing lonelier I'm guessing than being a person who is highly educated, well travelled and versed in many languages. It puts you well beyond the realm of many people in terms of how you view and experience the world. Now try to explain that to someone who's never left, or never had the good fortune, to travel beyond their little back yard. You'll be wasting your time. Exactly as you have said. And that, my fellow pilgrim, is the price we all pay for our long, spiritual, cleansing and reflective walks along the Frances, the Portuguese, the El Norte and so forth.
In other words, it can get cold and lonely at the top of the mountain but Mon Dieu, what a view!

I wrote an article on the Camino for 20 of my friends. I put text, photos and music in it. I put my heart and my soul into it. One person said thank you. Nothing from the rest. In what kind of lifeless, spiritless and loveless world do we live? It makes me want to walk not only on the Camino, but all over the world!

But on this forum you will get all the attention you long for !

 

[trecile]

I agree @dougfitz . My 89 year old mother has traveled the world, and I am very happy for her, but I don't need to watch a slideshow of 894 pictures (many of them sideways) and commentary of her latest adventure. I am thrilled that she is still traveling and having new experiences at her age! I am happy that she and her partner enjoyed meeting Bert and Sally from Tasmania on their trip to Antarctica, but it does not and cannot have the same meaning for me as it does for her. It has nothing to do with the knowledge and experience that I have acquired. And being bored by the interminable slideshow doesn't make me "less than." I learned after my first Camino that people want to see a few pretty pictures, but that you cannot explain the experience to someone who has not done the Camino, and even then, each one of us experiences it differently.

 

[VNwalking]

Finally someone else who understands! With 40 years as an Expat living and travelling in exotic and interesting countries, not one relative has ever asked me anything about life or experiences in those places. Whenever I'd try to show some videos or photos i was met with boredom after about 30 seconds. Finally i accepted that they just aren't interested at all and now whenever i go back to see the family i mostly keep my mouth shut, instead just reminisce with them about the old days like they all want to do. It used to bother me--i know if I'd had a relative who'd seen some of the world i would've been all ears. But apparently you and i are unique.

Not at all. My experience living as an expat for the last 30 years in two astonishingly wonderful places is mostly the same.
And the same indifference applies to Camino stories, or descriptions of any other intensely lived experience. Old friends and family don't really care unless they've shared that time or experience with me.

 

[pelerine]

......Old friends and family don't really care unless they've shared that time or experience with me.

Exactly so, VNwalking!
Having lived as expat in four countries during the last 60 years I do not expect anybody to listen to what I might tell them about my experience. But I do miss having somebody to share the various languages and what comes with this, books, films, jokes.....

 

[Dromengro]

It can't be a nice feeling to know that you've missed out on the big life. I mean life beyond our home, beyond our suburb, beyond our neighbourhood and beyond our country. And if you're highly educated to boot, in history and art and the classics, you've lived a thousand lives and a life well beyond the present. Let's be blunt, let's be frank; it puts you in a special class

I've met 2 old man of 80+ who had never travelled further than 10 miles from their homes in which they were born, never seen a town or city, no T.V. or many other things we take for granted. One was a crofter (small farmer) another a gamekeeper. Although "uneducated" they knew more about the real world than any anyone else I've ever met, and although they were men of few words I learnt more from them than anyone else and were two of the most interesting. I certainly don't think that they had missed out on the "big life" as you put it and despite the fact that I have spent my life continuously travelling and having adventures, I envy them and know that they lived lives a thousand times more than me. I would put them in a special class of their own. As one of them said "why travel, when if you stay in one place long enough, the whole world will come to you."

 

[Turga]

It seems to me that it is all about someone producing something for some who didn’t ask for that something; and that that someone got very disappointed because those some who didn’t ask for that something didn’t appreciate it the way that that someone expected.

Life is unjust or, as they say in Spain “Siempre llueve sobre mojado”.

 

[Lexicos]

Hmm, Dromengro, I think you're missing my point entirely. Never mind, happy travels!

 

[Former member 49149]

I've met 2 old man of 80+ who had never travelled further than 10 miles from their homes in which they were born, never seen a town or city, no T.V. or many other things we take for granted. One was a crofter (small farmer) another a gamekeeper. Although "uneducated" they knew more about the real world than any anyone else I've ever met, and although they were men of few words I learnt more from them than anyone else and were two of the most interesting. I certainly don't think that they had missed out on the "big life" as you put it and despite the fact that I have spent my life continuously travelling and having adventures, I envy them and know that they lived lives a thousand times more than me. I would put them in a special class of their own. As one of them said "why travel, when if you stay in one place long enough, the whole world will come to you."

Your post reminded me of a story of two crofter brothers.( I might have forgotten the exact words, but it is roughly as follows). Each evening they sat on the bench outside for a little while, just sitting, looking, listening, being there. One evening one of the brothers went off and came back 20 years later. The brother who had remained at home said "Where were you?" The one who had returned replied "Oot". Source: Scotland Laughing, by WB Burnett.

 

[Rozenn]

I've met 2 old man of 80+ who had never travelled further than 10 miles from their homes in which they were born, never seen a town or city, no T.V. or many other things we take for granted. One was a crofter (small farmer) another a gamekeeper. Although "uneducated" they knew more about the real world than any anyone else I've ever met, and although they were men of few words I learnt more from them than anyone else and were two of the most interesting. I certainly don't think that they had missed out on the "big life" as you put it and despite the fact that I have spent my life continuously travelling and having adventures, I envy them and know that they lived lives a thousand times more than me. I would put them in a special class of their own. As one of them said "why travel, when if you stay in one place long enough, the whole world will come to you."

Sure it was always reassuring to come back home where nothing or so little had changed and meet again with people whose life i think had another kind of depth all the same as respectable and interesting , they gave me strength to leave again when i had too because i knew they would be there year after year !