Visa for Americans for more than 90 days?

[Willdtrout]

The Camiño bug has bitten me hard and I suspect I’ll be back this winter. Last round I ran out of time on my 90 day Schengen and had to quit when you all wisely told me I was foolish to consider an overstay.

I’m thinking of going bigger this year and worry about the 90 days being enough.

Any idea how difficult it is to get a longer visa for an American doing a pilgrimage.

I know I should google this but you all are my friends more than google

Thank you in advance

 

[J Willhaus]

I looked into this a few years ago. It is a lot of effort for a non resident visa. You have to have health insurance accepted by the Spanish government. You have to show you have a certain income. It usually takes two trips in person to the embassy, health checkup, and filling out a lot of paperwork to get a nonresident visa and if you leave Spain before one year is up. It invalidates the whole thing.

You can also get a school visa, but there are rules for that too, which include going to school.

No real "easy" way to extend your 90 days.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I looked into this a few years ago. It is a lot of effort for a non resident visa. You have to have health insurance accepted by the Spanish government. You have to show you have a certain income. It usually takes two trips in person to the embassy, health checkup, and filling out a lot of paperwork to get a nonresident visa and if you leave Spain before one year is up. It invalidates the whole thing.

You can also get a school visa, but there are rules for that too, which include going to school.

No real "easy" way to extend your 90 days.

And police checks too, I think. All documents officially translated to Spanish and Apostilled.

 

[VNwalking]

Any idea how difficult it is to get a longer visa for an American doing a pilgrimage.

Very.
And no-one gets special treatment just because we want to walk a camino.
You have to do jump through a lot of hoops and even then there's no guarantee of success.

 

[dick bird]

Any idea how difficult it is to get a longer visa for an American doing a pilgrimage.

For anyone from outside the Schengen area, well-nigh impossible. Don´t bother to Google, it will frazzle your brain but there are a number of threads on this forum (many from the imcomparable Kathar1na) all saying essentially the same thing: don´t bother.

But if you do bother and find a way, get on the forum quick because a lot of us out here would love to find a way to stay in Europe more than 90 days legally.

 

[stevetay3815]

I was thinking of trying for a visa, but the health insurance was the “straw” that broke my back…as well as my pocketbook. I’m 84 and it was outrageous, and I’m in great health. Coming over this summer for another Camino…this time in France.

 

[Pathfinder075]

Leave Spain at 90 days and go to somewhere nearby, not in Schengen for 90 days, like trek the Atlas mountains, wander around in the Balkans for a month or so, then you should have some more days available in Schengen. If like me you came from the UK, well, easy enough to bail out to there or if Gibraltar wasn't so expensive, go to there. But if you flew from somewhere far away in the world, pull out to a country not in Schengen of which there are many near to Europe, even some in the EU that aren't in Schengen (Romania, Bulgaria), go trek in that country for a while.

So i have been contemplating a longer trek for a bit now, but the Schengen bit is the problem. I want to basically walk to Santiago, but start from Canterbury or maybe Sheffield (where I live), then walk to Rome, then head to Jerusalem. the logistics of it is a pain. One possibility is to do the Francigena, then do the holy land, then fly back to Rome and walk to Santiago, including maybe walking the trail in the Negev desert to pad out the trip and give me enough days in Schengen to get from Rome to Santiago. My problem isn't really the same as yours as I am passing through multiple countries, but it is similar.

I would love to do it in one go, but the world is setup to not allow people to do such simple things nowadays. It is almost easier nowadays to hop on a motorcycle and ride around the world, than to walk through Europe.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Croatia is now in Schengen.

 

[Pathfinder075]

Oh has it been added, the map i was looking at was probably out of date. Sorry, thanks for the correction Molly. I amended my post.

 

[USMC-Pilgrim]

WOW! What an adventure. I want to be you when I grow up!
Seriously, that is an amazing and impressive plan. Keep us posted!

 

[kenwilsonjr]

And be careful waiting until day 90 to depart. Delays happen and you don’t want to pay the price for overstaying.

 

[Bristle Boy]

Leave Spain at 90 days and go to somewhere nearby, not in Schengen for 90 days, like trek the Atlas mountains, wander around in the Balkans for a month or so, then you should have some more days available in Schengen. If like me you came from the UK, well, easy enough to bail out to there or if Gibraltar wasn't so expensive, go to there. But if you flew from somewhere far away in the world, pull out to a country not in Schengen of which there are many near to Europe, even some in the EU that aren't in Schengen (Romania, Bulgaria), go trek in that country for a while.

So i have been contemplating a longer trek for a bit now, but the Schengen bit is the problem. I want to basically walk to Santiago, but start from Canterbury or maybe Sheffield (where I live), then walk to Rome, then head to Jerusalem. the logistics of it is a pain. One possibility is to do the Francigena, then do the holy land, then fly back to Rome and walk to Santiago, including maybe walking the trail in the Negev desert to pad out the trip and give me enough days in Schengen to get from Rome to Santiago. My problem isn't really the same as yours as I am passing through multiple countries, but it is similar.

I would love to do it in one go, but the world is setup to not allow people to do such simple things nowadays. It is almost easier nowadays to hop on a motorcycle and ride around the world, than to walk through Europe.

If you leave the schengen area after your 90 day stay (assuming it is all in one go) simply by leaving the area will not give you extra days until you have stayed for 90 days outside.
The rules are 90 days in the last 180 days.
It would take another 90 days before a single day dropped out of the calculation for a return.

 

[Willdtrout]

Unfortunately I did google this and found what you all are saying. At best it is very very difficult.

Makes me sad but guess I’ll find other places

 

[Bristle Boy]

Unfortunately I did google this and found what you all are saying. At best it is very very difficult.

Makes me sad but guess I’ll find other places

If you want to have a trip of a lifetime consider your options this side of the Atlantic outside of the Schengen zone once you have used your 90 days.
I don't know wether you have visited the UK before but there are pilgrimage walks (although not as developed and financially achievable...the UK is not cheap) and a religious history worth exploring amongst many other things.
I wish you all the best but there are many options open to you.

 

[Pathfinder075]

Yes you would need to stay out of schenge

If you leave the schengen area after your 90 day stay (assuming it is all in one go) simply by leaving the area will not give you extra days until you have stayed for 90 days outside.
The rules are 90 days in the last 180 days.
It would take another 90 days before a single day dropped out of the calculation for a return.

So you would have to wait 270 days before you could re-enter?

I thought you could leave schengen for 90 days, then return in the next 180 day block and have 90 more days? Is this not the case?

So basically 90 in, 90 out, 90 in, 90 out, per year?

 

[Bristle Boy]

Yes you would need to stay out of schenge

So you would have to wait 270 days before you could re-enter?

I thought you could leave schengen for 90 days, then return in the next 180 day block and have 90 more days? Is this not the case?

So basically 90 in, 90 out, 90 in, 90 out, per year?

Yes...I think you have it if you are doing 90 day duration visits. It is just that....90 days in 90 days out (before any of the days drop out of the last 180 days).
Edit: forget 270 days.

 

[Pathfinder075]

Yeah my plan when i want to do mine would be to use the 90 days out to head to the holy land, maybe over land for some of it, then pad it out in Israel before returning to Rome at day 181 with a fresh 90 days of travel in schengen.

Maybe I should try and see if i can get an Irish passport. My ancestors were Irish, from Mayo. Don't know if it's even possible, but some of my parents relatives still live over there.

 

[Bristle Boy]

Yeah my plan when i want to do mine would be to use the 90 days out to head to the holy land, maybe over land for some of it, then pad it out in Israel before returning to Rome at day 181 with a fresh 90 days of travel in schengen.

Maybe I should try and see if i can get an Irish passport. My ancestors were Irish, from Mayo. Don't know if it's even possible, but some of my parents relatives still live over there.

Sounds like a good plan.

 

[donalomahony]

Yeah my plan when i want to do mine would be to use the 90 days out to head to the holy land, maybe over land for some of it, then pad it out in Israel before returning to Rome at day 181 with a fresh 90 days of travel in schengen.

Maybe I should try and see if i can get an Irish passport. My ancestors were Irish, from Mayo. Don't know if it's even possible, but some of my parents relatives still live over there.

Here you go!

The Foreign Births Register

If your grandparents were born in Ireland, but you were born abroad, your birth must be registered in the Foreign Births Register to claim Irish citizenship. This document explains how to do this.

www.citizensinformation.ie

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Maybe I should try and see if i can get an Irish passport.

Once you get registered in the Irish Foreign Births Register you become a citizen. Then you apply for the passport.

 

[Pathfinder075]

Need to consult the family tree and get the info together.

Thanks.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Once you get registered in the Irish Foreign Births Register you become a citizen. Then you apply for the passport.

That makes it sound so quick and easy. My mum has now successfully registered her birth (after 2 years) and is waiting to receive her passport.
It is easier if a parent was born in Ireland!

 

[Pathfinder075]

My family are split between Ireland, Scotland and England. I suspect the process will be more indepth for me, might take a couple of years too. But need more info before I can contemplate whether I can do it or not.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

My family are split between Ireland, Scotland and England. I suspect the process will be more indepth for me, might take a couple of years too. But need more info before I can contemplate whether I can do it or not.

The only rule really is you need to have a grandparent born in Ireland.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

The only rule really is you need to have a grandparent born in Ireland.

Note that this means the island. The UK's Northern Ireland can count.

 

[Robertb345]

The only rule really is you need to have a grandparent born in Ireland.

would a great grandparent count?

 

[SioCamino]

would a great grandparent count?

No

 

[Molly Cassidy]

would a great grandparent count?

No. Not unless your parent registered as an Irish citizen before you were born.

 

[VNwalking]

Makes me sad but guess I’ll find other places

The world is full of places to walk.

would a great grandparent count?

Sadly my people (and many others') left Ireland on the coffin ships to Canada too long ago to count in a citizenship application. Never mind that Ireland lionizes them - for all intents and purposes that connection does not count legally.

 

[Sam - AU]

Leave Spain at 90 days and go to somewhere nearby, not in Schengen for 90 days, like trek the Atlas mountains, wander around in the Balkans for a month or so, then you should have some more days available in Schengen. If like me you came from the UK, well, easy enough to bail out to there or if Gibraltar wasn't so expensive, go to there. But if you flew from somewhere far away in the world, pull out to a country not in Schengen of which there are many near to Europe, even some in the EU that aren't in Schengen (Romania, Bulgaria), go trek in that country for a while.
.

if anyone is planning on waiting out time until Schengen days reset or just tracking their Schengen days used, I would recommend downloading a free Schengen days app for your phone which calculates your days remaining / when they reset.

I travelled internationally full time for a year in 2019, the number of people I met who were either not aware of the Schengen Zone rule, misunderstood the rule, miscalculated when it reset, thought it didn’t apply to them etc was astounding.
Not challenging anyone here’s intelligence but the app is a handy tool so you don’t have think about it.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Not challenging anyone here’s intelligence but the app is a handy tool so you don’t have think about it.

If you are up to the challenge of thinking about how the rule works I created a little demonstration here

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/90-day-tourist-limit-schengen-countries.73289/page-2#post-1001889

 

[Pathfinder075]

Makes me sad but guess I’ll find other places

The Shikoku 88 or Kumano Kodo in Japan could be alternatives if you are looking for adventure. I haven't done either, but would love to. Some people on here have done them.

I've always wanted to do the trek to Machu Picchu, but not the basic one, I once saw a 10 day trek. It went to several Inca sites/cities before arriving at Machu Picchu.

The Negev trail in Israel could be another possibility, especially if you tied it into a trip to Jerusalem and Bethlehem. Basically walk from one end of Israel to the other.

 

[Richard Smith]

I’m thinking of going bigger this year and worry about the 90 days being enough.
Any idea how difficult it is to get a longer visa

You could just marry a European... at least for a while.

 

[Gringazolana]

Hubs and I have been tossing around the idea of retiring in Galicia! (I mean Galiza lol.) I’ve looked into the Irish passport for me but my people are too many generations in the US. However, hubby is from South America and still has a passport from a former Spanish colony, so that’s our IN! (In particular, for Venezuelans right now.) I believe there may be special provisions also for some Jewish descendants. Do some digging in your family tree roots. Buena suerte!

 

[Pathfinder075]

While I would love a home (or farm) in Spain, I'm not sure I could 100% leave the UK. I would probably do the 90/90 split. I think 90 days in Spain is generally enough for me. But I do like Spain. But wouldn't retire there. Would much rather have a smallholding in the UK and retire to it.

 

[Karenicola]

For anyone from outside the Schengen area, well-nigh impossible. Don´t bother to Google, it will frazzle your brain but there are a number of threads on this forum (many from the imcomparable Kathar1na) all saying essentially the same thing: don´t bother.

But if you do bother and find a way, get on the forum quick because a lot of us out here would love to find a way to stay in Europe more than 90 days legally.

I have dual citizenship (US and Irish) is there some way I can take advantage of the Irish passport to stay longer than 90 days?

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I have dual citizenship (US and Irish) is there some way I can take advantage of the Irish passport to stay longer than 90 days?

Yes, just show your Irish passport, not your US one when you arrive and depart Spain.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I have dual citizenship (US and Irish) is there some way I can take advantage of the Irish passport to stay longer than 90 days?

Yes, just show your Irish passport, not your US one when you arrive and depart Spain.

To add to Molly's response here are details. (I hope corrections show up if I'm wrong; I haven't actually gone through this.) You will have to travel with both passports. At departure from the US there are two places where you show passports. The airline wants to know if you can legally arrive at your destination (so they aren't stuck returning you home at their expense if you aren't). Show the airline your Irish passport. The US wants to know that you are leaving the country so show your US passport at passport control. When you arrive in the EU and go through passport control pick the line for EU citizens and show your Irish passport.

The return home is similar but reversed. Airlines want to see your US passport, EU passport control wants to see Irish passport, US passport control needs to see your US passport. By the way, US citizens legally must show their American passports to enter the country.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Hubs and I have been tossing around the idea of retiring in Galicia! (I mean Galiza lol.) I’ve looked into the Irish passport for me but my people are too many generations in the US. However, hubby is from South America and still has a passport from a former Spanish colony, so that’s our IN! (In particular, for Venezuelans right now.) I believe there may be special provisions also for some Jewish descendants. Do some digging in your family tree roots. Buena suerte!

You can also look into a Spanish "non-lucrative visa." You just have to show that you can support yourself from income generated from outside of Spain. Because you're not allowed to work. It's unclear to me how much money they're requesting that you show proof of. I've seen several wildly varying numbers from $7000 a year up to $36,000 a year per person.

Anyway, if it sounds interesting, you can research it starting at a Spanish consulate webpage:

Non-working (Non-lucrative) residence visa

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I have dual citizenship (US and Irish) is there some way I can take advantage of the Irish passport to stay longer than 90 days?

Stay longer than 90 days? You can stay as long as you want, or forever. Get a job, buy a house, anything.

There are no restrictions (as I understand it) unless you want to establish residency, and then you have to do a bunch of paperwork.

Also, true for any other country that's fully in the European Union. I'm a Dual Italian/US citizen and all dual citizens have the same rights as every other citizen of a European Union country.

 

[Robertb345]

I know when the UK was in the EU it was probably different and I expect they grandfathered people from UK who retired to Spain, but I understand their are lots of Brits retired in southern Spain. Surely Spain doesn't want to cut off all those interested in retiring their just because folks are not coming from another EU country.

Does anyone know if it is the "Non-working residency visa", that people would use to retire to Spain if they are non-EU.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Yes, it's the non-working Visa for retirees, but you need to check the minimum income requirement. As well as health insurance, you also need a certificate from a doctor to say you're in good health.

 

[Robertb345]

Yes, it's the non-working Visa for retirees, but you need to check the minimum income requirement. As well as health insurance, you also need a certificate from a doctor to say you're in good health.

Thanks, I went to my local consulate web page and this is one they did not show more info on, so will have to call them. Only bad thing may be actually needing a permanent residence. Will have to find out more.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

There's a bit here if you haven't already read it.

Non-working (Non-lucrative) residence visa

 

[dick bird]

Non-working (Non-lucrative) residence visa

This was issued by the US consulate in LA. There will differences in the requirements from other jurisdictions, e.g. 7, 9 ,10. Bear in mind that the Schengen limits will still apply to other countries you visit.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[VNwalking]

From that link in @dick bird's post - This is a deal-breaker for a lot of people:

Residency applicants cannot have/leave loans or mortgages in the United States when applying for residency in Spain.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

This was issued by the US consulate in LA. There will differences in the requirements from other jurisdictions, e.g. 7, 9 ,10. Bear in mind that the Schengen limits will still apply to other countries you visit.

Let us know how you get on.

Just to say, when I was applying for my visa (a student visa for a teaching placement) I emailed the embassy here in Greece and they were very helpful in answering all my questions about the exact requirements.

 

[DoughnutANZ]

From that link in @dick bird's post - This is a deal-breaker for a lot of people:

If you are going down the residency route then Portugal is generally considered to be easier than Spain.

Once you have a residency visa then you are free to travel in other parts of the Schengen zone.

 

[Corned Beef]

Here's one for the curious. Brother and wife are now Australian and have just zoomed round Spain, Italy and Greece to the maximum 90 days. Part of that was a Med cruise between Spain and Italy.

If you are on a boat are you in Schengen? Or would the cruise days be deducted from your 90 as you have "left" Spain.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

If you are going down the residency route then Portugal is generally considered to be easier than Spain.

Once you have a residency visa then you are free to travel in other parts of the Schengen zone.

Yes, much lower income threshold too.

Theoretically you may be restricted to 90 days in other Schengen countries, but it's a bit of a grey area and probably no-one will notice or check.

 

[GraemeHall]

I have friends who successfully obtained a 12 month visa for France, which I would expect to be similar. I asked her about how it worked and this is her (verbatim) reply:

It was fiddly but doable. I you go onto the visas-fr page, complete the quiz - they tell you what you should apply for and what documents you need. We then set about collecting the documents - health insurance for a year, proof of income etc. Once we had that you have to make an appointment with the agents -VFS I think. That was the hard part … shit website so ended up going in twice to ask for an appointment. Once we had the appointment we had our visas within a month … Apparently Spain is easier.

 

[Stivandrer]

The only rule really is you need to have a grandparent born in Ireland.

- or that one of your parents was an Irish national at the time of your birth

 

[Karenicola]

To add to Molly's response here are details. (I hope corrections show up if I'm wrong; I haven't actually gone through this.) You will have to travel with both passports. At departure from the US there are two places where you show passports. The airline wants to know if you can legally arrive at your destination (so they aren't stuck returning you home at their expense if you aren't). Show the airline your Irish passport. The US wants to know that you are leaving the country so show your US passport at passport control. When you arrive in the EU and go through passport control pick the line for EU citizens and show your Irish passport.

The return home is similar but reversed. Airlines want to see your US passport, EU passport wants to see Irish passport, US passport control needs to see your US passport. Legally US citizens must show their American passports to enter the country.

Thank you so much, great suggestions

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I think the easiest way to work this is get a student visa, spend a couple of weeks at an intensive language school to beat your Spanish/French/Italian into shape, then start walking. Circle back at the end and take another week of classes to cement it all together and prove you were serious about studying. It's a win/win.

 

[WGroleau]

I thought you could leave schengen for 90 days, then return in the next 180 day block and have 90 more days? Is this not the case?

Note that the day you arrive and the day you leave are counted. So the first day "out" starts at midnight after you leave, and the last day out ends at the midnight before you return.

A tool that helps determine the legality or illegality of multiple visits is

Short-stay Visa Calculator

With the aid of the Short-stay Visa Calculator, you can calculate how many travel days remain under your Schengen short-stay visa.

home-affairs.ec.europa.eu

Click on the ? links to know what the fields mean. Check "passport" if you don't want to be forced to enter all visits in chronological order.

 

[Kathor1]

For those who have access to Wikipedia, I recommend the articles on Schengen Area, Schengen Agreement and Visa Policy of the Schengen Area.

A few basic facts for this thread and a number of similar current threads:

The downside of Schengen (not that i actually see any real upside to it either).

The Schengen area was not created for the benefit of people who do not live in the EU countries that belong to this area and not for people who do not have a right to live in these countries.

The Schengen area was created for the benefit of those who live and work there and/or have a right to live and work there. These are people who have the nationality of an EU country; or who are non-EU long-term residents in one of these countries; or who are spouses or minor children of such nationals.

There are specific rules for the micro states like Monaco or Vatican City. As well as for those British nationals who have been given special residency status due to the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement between the EU and the UK. It's all in Wikipedia; also the list of the countries which are not EU members but Schengen members of course.

I never heard that rule, and have never been asked in a dozen entrances into Spain.

Whether you never heard of the minimum subsistence amounts or not, they exist and so do the Schengen rules associated with them. The when's and if's of all this has been discussed and explained in numerous threads.

The EU has a common visa policy with common rules but there are also visa rules that are specific to individual EU/Schengen countries.

The countries of the EU/Schengen area have a common standard policy for short stays of up to 90 days. They do not have a common policy for long stays of more than 90 days because they can't agree on it and are fond of some of their legacy laws in this area and are not prepared to pool more sovereignty in this policy area. Hence the continued validity of old bilateral visa waiver agreements and the different categories of visas for long stays of more than 90 days which are sometimes called D visas. France has a tourist/visitor long stay visa, Spain and Portugal have something similar but don't call it a tourist/visitor visa, other EU/Schengen countries do not have anything comparable.

The 90/180 days rule and the legal dispositions about minimum subsistence amounts apply only to non-EU visitors; they are called third country nationals or TCN. The Schengen area has external borders and internal borders. The external borders are land borders with countries that do not belong to the Schengen area as well as sea borders and air borders. Air borders are to be found in international airports like Madrid, Frankfurt, Paris - in any airport with flights to airports outside of the Schengen area.

There are a few places with Juxtaposed Controls - St Pancras in London; Brussels; Paris; Amsterdam; Dover; etc. where border/immigration control takes place before departure and embarkation instead of after disembarkation and arrival.

When a TCN wants to cross an external Schengen border (and this must happen at official border crossing locations of which there is a list - airports, sea ports, border crossing points for international trains), the TCNs will be checked whether they comply with the 90/180 rules, have a valid passport, have a short stay visa (if not benefitting from the visa waiver program) and may (may!) be asked to provide proof of access to sufficient financial means for the duration of the intended stay.

There are no such checks when a TCN crosses an internal Schengen border (usually a land border, for example between Spain and Portugal or France) and TCNs can cross internal Schengen borders anywhere without obligation to use official designated border crossings.

 

[Kathor1]

Here's one for the curious. Brother and wife are now Australian and have just zoomed round Spain, Italy and Greece to the maximum 90 days. Part of that was a Med cruise between Spain and Italy.

If you are on a boat are you in Schengen? Or would the cruise days be deducted from your 90 as you have "left" Spain.

Since you asked and nobody replied and despite this being of little practical purpose for the land-bound peregrin@s on their long way from Canterbury to Rome and beyond or from Warsaw to Santiago, here is a simple answer : Did they get any Schengen exit stamps and Schengen entry stamps in their passports? If yes, then their days on the Med cruiseship between each exit stamp and the corresponding entry stamp did not count for their "90" and if they did not get such stamps than these days counted and were not deducted from their "90".

For what it's worth: There are tiny arrows pointing to the right or left on the Schengen stamps. They tell you and any later border control officer whether you entered or exited the Schengen area on the date of the stamp.

There's a whole complex set of rules for cruises. Cruises are not a means of transport where you can step on and off for good in any port that the ship visits. The cruise companies collect your personal data and send them to the border police of each port where they plan to stop. Depending on the circumstances, it is often judged that the passengers pose no risk as to illegal immigration and there are no apparent controls whatsoever. On a cruise from Coruña to the Netherlands with short stops in ports in France and in England, I remember that somewhere near or in the English Channel, UK border police boarded our ship and we passengers had to present our passports one by one. I paid so little attention to this (I have an EU passport) that I barely remember any details.

The same applies to some of the more arcane comments such as spending time in Andorra or Monaco. If you get Schengen exit/entry stamps, your days are not counted as staying in Schengen, if you don't get stamps, they count. Monaco has special agreements and your stay is counted as staying in Schengen. Andorra apparently sometimes stamps and sometimes doesn't, so therefore sometimes your stay counts and sometimes it doesn't. None of this is a major issue in the greater scheme of things - you are a non EU-national on a visit in EU countries; you are a short-stay tourist; you are an economic asset; you are unlikely to require state financed housing or training because you want to stay forever and have neither the financial means nor an appropriate educational level or professional experience to support yourself; you don't need to integrate and it matters little that you don't speak the language(s) - in the greater scheme of things, of course. For your short-stay visit, it's nice when you can say "thank you" and "hello" and "I don't speak (fill in the blanks)" in a variety of languages.

 

[henrythedog]

For what it's worth: There are tiny arrows pointing to the right or left on the Schengen stamps. They tell you and any later border control officer whether you entered or exited the Schengen area on the date of the stamp.

Probably due to cuts to the ink budget, many of my passport stamps in and out of Schengen are totally illegible. Whilst I do stick to the rules, am I right in thinking that there is no intro-Schengen computer system which actually tracks arrivals and departures?

An emigration officer at Madrid told me a couple of years ago that they have to add up the days manually based on the stamps if in doubt. That begs the further question as to what happens when one renews a passport and the physical evidence disappears.

 

[Kathor1]

Probably due to cuts to the ink budget, many of my passport stamps in and out of Schengen are totally illegible.

Whilst I do stick to the rules, am I right in thinking that there is no intro-Schengen computer system which actually tracks arrivals and departures?

I believe that you benefit from the visa waiver program for short stays in the Schengen area. In this case, you are correct: your personal data about your Schengen entries, stays and exits are not recorded in any Schengen computer system because such a system does not exit. It is being developed, however, and will be "coming soon". It's already been "coming soon" for several years. It is called Entry/Exit System (EES) and once implemented and fully operational, it will register travellers from third-countries [i.e. you], both short-stay visa holders and visa exempt travellers, each time they cross an EU external border. The system will register the person's name, type of the travel document, biometric data (fingerprints and captured facial images) and the date and place of entry and exit, in full respect of fundamental rights and data protection. It will be the end of the small entry/exit stamps in your passport.

An emigration officer at Madrid told me a couple of years ago that they have to add up the days manually based on the stamps if in doubt. That begs the further question as to what happens when one renews a passport and the physical evidence disappears.

In that case, as a visa exempt traveller, you and your old passport (are you allowed to keep them? I am) are the sole keepers of knowledge about your past stays in the Schengen area.

If however you are a traveller who holds a short-stay Schengen visa because you are obliged to do so due to your nationality, then your relevant personal data are stored for five years in the EU's VIS system (Visa Information System).

 

[Former member 104756]

I have friends who successfully obtained a 12 month visa for France, which I would expect to be similar. I asked her about how it worked and this is her (verbatim) reply:

It was fiddly but doable. I you go onto the visas-fr page, complete the quiz - they tell you what you should apply for and what documents you need. We then set about collecting the documents - health insurance for a year, proof of income etc. Once we had that you have to make an appointment with the agents -VFS I think. That was the hard part … shit website so ended up going in twice to ask for an appointment. Once we had the appointment we had our visas within a month … Apparently Spain is easier.

Just to add another perspective on this - and possibly some room for optimism for the OP, if you have a similar opportunity from the US, and others.

I have successfully applied for 3 x long term visas in France (each of 12 months). The applications were made in Sydney, Australia - and could be submitted no earlier than 3 months before anticipated arrival date in France. There are various types of visas available - mine has a family connection, so likely not available to the OP. But there are other types.

I know of many people in France on visas that allow them to stay longer than the 3 month Schenghen period, for travel purposes. For example, I met a fellow Aussie from the Sunshine Coast just a few weeks ago, here in France. She had successfully applied for a 6 month travel visa for the sole purpose of travel - in her case she had to show proof of her financial means and health insurance for the 6 months- she did not require a medical. She was not doing business in France or looking to work in France. She told me that her visa was in this category -

• for tourist, family or private visits or even business trips: the “Temporary visitor visa” visa (VLS-TS);

Once in France, she told me that she was free to visit Spain, Italy, Germany etc ... Regarding the VFS website - VFS is the company that the French consulate in Australia (and perhaps elsewhere) has outsourced applications for visa processing including the interview. My first two long stay visa applications were directly with the consulate, my most recent one (in January this year) was processed by VFS, with the interview at their office in Sydney. I got all my 'ducks in a row' in advance of the time I could apply. Applied on 2 January for a 30 March departure. I had my visa, in my passport, by the middle of February. Yes, the website is a bit clunky - I think the trick is to start exploring well before you make your online application - understand the process, work out what documents are needed and have patience.

Also, by way of perspective, having had to go through a process for my partner, now husband, to have a longer stay visa in Australia - compared to France, the Australian process was more difficult, required more documentation, was impossible to speak to a person, took much longer, and was more expensive - in fact prohibitive for many - e.g. A$7,500 fee to the government (non refundable if visa not granted) compared to A$110 for the French long stay visa, which included the courier fee for sending my passport back.

So, each person's circumstances are different, and rules vary from country to country, but there may be opportunities As others have said, it's not easy - but that doesn't mean it's impossible. If being able to travel in Schenghen countries longer than the rules allow is important to you - do the research with the official websites, understand your options, prepare your documentation, follow the procedures and have patience. All the best to the OP and other interested parties.

PS I'm no expert on this stuff - I'm thinking of you @Kathar1na - just sharing my experience.

 

[Kathor1]

PS I'm no expert on this stuff - I'm thinking of you @Kathar1na - just sharing my experience.

@Pelerina: Come on, your practical and real world experience is a lot more worth than our collective book / online learning. Admittedly, a French husband is a big bonus.

PS: Edited to correct user name.

 

[Former member 104756]

@pelerine: Come on, your practical and real world experience is a lot more worth than our collective book / online learning. Admittedly, a French husband is a big bonus.

Yes, I agree he’s a big bonus - - but not so much for getting a visa. There was still a lot of paperwork. Nor is an Australian partner/wife much of a bonus for getting into Australia.

PS. I think there is another forum member called pelerine. I chose Pelerina as a cross between pelerine and peregrina

 

[Kirkie]

@Pelerina: Come on, your practical and real world experience is a lot more worth than our collective book / online learning. Admittedly, a French husband is a big bonus

PS I'm no expert on this stuff - I'm thinking of you @Kathar1na - just sharing my experience.

I say thanks to both of you for persistent digging down and unearthing helpful source information. So refreshing! And no doubt ultra useful to those looking for help.

 

[WGroleau]

… It will be the end of the small entry/exit stamps in your passport. …

Waaah!! I like my stamps!

 

[SBurgess]

I looked into this a few years ago. It is a lot of effort for a non resident visa. You have to have health insurance accepted by the Spanish government. You have to show you have a certain income. It usually takes two trips in person to the embassy, health checkup, and filling out a lot of paperwork to get a nonresident visa and if you leave Spain before one year is up. It invalidates the whole thing.

You can also get a school visa, but there are rules for that too, which include going to school.

No real "easy" way to extend your 90 days.

And be careful waiting until day 90 to depart. Delays happen and you don’t want to pay the price for overstaying.

What is the price for over staying? If I'm from US, Canada or wherever and spend 100 days walking various Camino routes in France. Spain and Portugal what will happen to me when I attempt to board a plane out of Santiago?

 

[Molly Cassidy]

What is the price for over staying? If I'm from US, Canada or wherever and spend 100 days walking various Camino routes in France. Spain and Portugal what will happen to me when I attempt to board a plane out of Santiago?

You might be fined, but also you may be added to a list of people who are not welcome, so you could be refused entry in future. It's really best to just abide by the rules.

 

[SBurgess]

You might be fined, but also you may be added to a list of people who are not welcome, so you could be refused entry in future. It's really best to just abide by the rules.

Thanks. I would not walk for 100 days--maybe 75.

 

[TravellingMan22]

What is the price for over staying? If I'm from US, Canada or wherever and spend 100 days walking various Camino routes in France. Spain and Portugal what will happen to me when I attempt to board a plane out of Santiago?

No one really knows it seems. I would hazard a guess that some countries are stricter than others but that is just based on how certain countries scrutinise passports more closely than others!!!

Probably worth a google !

 

[Former member 104756]

Here is a link. I don’t know if this is an an ‘official’ website (i doubt it) but the basic information about consequences is consistent with what you’ll find on many other sites. Countries may differ in the penalty they choose to impose but the risk of being banned from re-entry to the Schengen area for a substantial length of time is sufficient to make me want to abide by the rules — and I’m guessing the same for most people who want to travel more than once to the Schengen area.

The Schengen Area 90/180 Day Rule Explained

The 90/180-day rule states that any foreign national who enters the Schengen zone (any country within the area) can stay for up to 90 days within any 180 days. At first glance, it seems a very simple rule, but it’s often misunderstood, and many people overstay it, resulting in them facing...

www.schengenvisainfo.com

 

[Kathor1]

What is the price for over staying? If I'm from US, Canada or wherever and spend 100 days walking various Camino routes in France. Spain and Portugal what will happen to me when I attempt to board a plane out of Santiago?

There is no EU law about what would or could happen in the case you describe. It depends on the national law of each EU country - what it says if anything and how it is applied. In the case that you describe you will be leaving EU/Schengen territory anyway within minutes or within a few hours, they are not going to start a deportation procedure.

It always amuses me a little when the good pilgrims of this forum ask this question. But of course I understand that it is merely the inquisitive mind that wants to know and there is no intention to circumvent any foreign laws.

Just bear in mind that once their new EU wide IT systems are implemented, perhaps as soon as 2024, they will know because then your comings and goings will be stored electronically for several years. Each time your passport is scanned or you apply for a new ETIAS authorisation to travel to Spain, Portugal or France, they will know that you had previously overstayed - each time you want to return ...

 

[dick bird]

Each time your passport is scanned or you apply for a new ETIAS authorisation to travel to Spain, Portugal or France, they will know that you had previously overstayed - each time you want to return

Or to put it another way, they won´t stop you leaving, but don´t bank on their letting you back in again. Oh, and they might decide to a) fine you and b) put an embarrassing stamp in your passport.