Two nations divided by a common language?

[David]

Hi - my daughter is in the States at the moment and it led me to thinking about how the colonists - ooppss, sorry, Americans, speak English versus Brits speaking English - rubber rather than eraser for instance - ... then I have had American visitors who can't work out why there is a plastic bowl in my sink .... or why when they ask for ice in a drink they only get two cubes, and so on.

So .... anyone had a problem on Camino? Such as asking for the rest room instead of bathroom or loo and being shown the dormitory?
(only for fun)

 

[Turga]

Interesting! Also for a non-native (American)English speaker

 

[PiryatJos]

No, half seven means half past seven, not half past six. That was by and large the barrier difference. Sure, used different words but never was there confusion except for the time and they confirmed if I forgot to include a past.

 

[Kanga]

In Spain I've seen occasionally seen English speaking women push the loo door labeled S for "she" ....

 

[Deleted member 73526]

how the colonists - ooppss, sorry, Americans

"Colonials," unless you're referring to the Mayflower Pilgrims.

I have a feeling that Americans might find it less confusing to come across cultural differences in a Spanish speaking country than when they encounter them in the UK, which feels like it ought to be culturally aligned, since the people speak a form of English and the POTUS selects the prime minister and senior civil servants.

 

[David]

I meant what I wrote as America was first colonies, founded by the English and the residents were colonists - another example of American versus English?

"the difference between colonial and colonist is that colonial is a person from a country that is or was controlled by another while colonist is a person who is a founder of a colony."

But actually, my using 'colonist' was English humour, we forgave you for your rebellion and treason a long time ago .

 

[The Kolbist]

I wish one day to walk with a southerner (deep-south) and a brit, and both accuse each other of not speaking English. That would be fun!

 

[oursonpolaire]

There would be no problem on the Camino asking for a rest room as opposed to the loo, as both requests would be met with puzzled incomprehension. The Spanish often have little pictograms on the doors, indicating that the users are Regency gentlemen with top hats, or respectable ladies with parasols. This can be very helpful to those of us familiar with Jane Austen's work.

Canadians, of course, speak standard English and perfect French, and have a longstanding tradition of politeness to other sorts of anglophones and francophones.

 

[Deleted member 397]

Im always bemused by "restroom"..do you go in there to lie down?

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Im always bemused by "restroom"..do you go in there to lie down?

It makes more sense if you look at a typical American restroom.

 

[SherlyC]

.. then I have had American visitors who can't work out why there is a plastic bowl in my sink .... or why when they ask for ice in a drink they only get two cubes, and so on.
(only for fun)

I’m not American, i’m Korean/Swiss - but why do you have a plastic bowl in your sink??

 

[NorthernLight]

The ones born in America no longer saw themselves as colonists - only their parents were, although, really, they were immigrants - and then their children started to see themselves as subject to the yoke of an old world ... so colonials. But they didn't have plastic bowls and the trouble started.

 

[Deleted member 73526]

I meant what I wrote as America was first colonies, founded by the English and the residents were colonists - another example of American versus English?

The founders of the colonies were colonists, as per the definition that you quoted. They were English and spoke British English (although not the same as today's British English). The later residents who lived in the colonies when American and British English diverged are jokingly referred to (with British humor) as "Colonials."

FWIW - I'm not American, although I generally use American spelling.

 

[David]

I’m not American, i’m Korean/Swiss - but why do you have a plastic bowl in your sink??

'Cos we is civilised Taken from elsewhere "Because it uses less water, because you're less likely to damage a plate by accidentally knocking it against a plastic bowl than against a metal sink, because if you suddenly want to use the sink for some other purpose you can lift the whole lot out, because you can tip cold tea or vegetable water down the side of the bowl rather than all over your crockery ..... "

I would add - if you need to clean up a mess it is simple to take the bowl with soapy water and a cloth in it to the spill ... or same for cleaning windows ... or if someone is feeling sick .... or putting washed wet clothes in it to take out to hang on the washing line ... or using the used water in it to water the plants etc etc etc
it really is a fab thing to have!

 

[Chris Gi]

I’m not American, i’m Korean/Swiss - but why do you have a plastic bowl in your sink??

It was because the dishes got washed in the bowl. Back when no one had electric dishwashers. The bowl was called the “washing up bowl”. That is what I remember.

 

[David]

Re colonists vs colonials - the object of the humour was to be absurd - therefore I used colonists rather than colonials - I could have used revolting rebels who committed high treason - look my post is supposed to be lighthearted ... merely a humorous way to idle away time ...

...did I mention that aluminium has more than one I in it? or that herb begins with an H ? or that momentarily means just for a moment, it doesn't mean soon? of course not ...

 

[David]

It was because the dishes got washed in the bowl. Back when no one had electric dishwashers. The bowl was called the “washing up bowl”. That is what I remember.

Hardly any of us have dishwashers - well, if you exclude the servants of course.

 

[Deleted member 397]

It makes more sense if you look at a typical American restroom.
View attachment 61073

Wow...that's a big toilet!

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Wow...that's a big toilet!

Comfy too.

 

[RumAndChupacabras]

Heck, I've inadvertantly walked into a men's room on more than one occasion when it was clearly marked in my native lanuage!
I guess toilet would be the best universally

 

[NorthernLight]

We had plastic bowls for our sinks in the dominion of Canuckistan for years. My Scottish ancestors would say they were a Scots invention, stolen by the English.

 

[TaijiPilgrim]

I'm one of your "Colonials" and I have a plastic bowl in my sink!

 

[C clearly]

I have a stainless steel bowl in my stainless steel sink. Where do I fit in?

 

[Marcus-UK]

I meant what I wrote as America was first colonies, founded by the English and the residents were colonists - another example of American versus English?

"the difference between colonial and colonist is that colonial is a person from a country that is or was controlled by another while colonist is a person who is a founder of a colony."

But actually, my using 'colonist' was English humour, we forgave you for your rebellion and treason a long time ago .

The first Colony in North America was Spanish. San Augustine. Just being a Pedant. The first successful English Colony in North America was either Georgia or Virginia. The Mayflower lot were Johnny come Latelies.

 

[Marcus-UK]

"the difference between colonial and colonist is that colonial is a person from a country that is or was controlled by another while colonist is a person who is a founder of a colony."

.

An Irish tribe called the Scots Colonised Northern Brittain. Which then became Scotland. The former Irish Colonials later invaded Northern Ireland and formed Plantations of Scots in Ireland. The English (Normans plus Anglo-Saxons) were requested to invade Ireland by a deposed Irish High King (Biggest Mistake Ever!) The remaining Irish in the South West of Ireland eventually saved enough for tickets to the Dominions in Canada, Newfoundland. Australia New Zealand etc. A dominion is something like a colony but without totally disenfranchising the aboriginal peoples. A lot of the Southern Irish tribes were Colonists from Northern Spain (Including my family). Ireland is mainly English speaking but any other English speaking visitor gets confused by its usage. But then who wouldn't with that sort of history!

 

[David]

"The first Colony in North America was Spanish. San Augustine. Just being a Pedant. The first successful English Colony in North America was either Georgia or Virginia. The Mayflower lot were Johnny come Latelies."

I stand corrected but I was educated at the end of the British Empire - the only thing we were told about Spaniards is that they had treasure ships that sailed from South America that we often stole and that they failed miserably to land an invasion force when Elizabeth was queen - the Armada - oh, and they mentioned the Conquistadors, who apparently weren't very nice chaps, and were an example of how not to try and rule the world .... ah, a British education

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

The first Colony in North America was Spanish. San Augustine. Just being a Pedant. The first successful English Colony in North America was either Georgia or Virginia. The Mayflower lot were Johnny come Latelies.

Virginia. The Plymouth colony had a more compelling story to tell the many non-anglo immigrants post Civil War.

 

[Chris Gi]

I have a stainless steel bowl in my stainless steel sink. Where do I fit in?

Ah! You must be part of the newer generation of washing up bowls

 

[Annette london]

Hardly any of us have dishwashers - well, if you exclude the servants of course.

I still don't have a dishwasher..
Well not an electric one anyway!
My dishwasher is called Charlie and he does a great job with the dishes ...and the pots and pans ....great for keeping the electricity bills down!!

 

[K Turner]

I am American and use a plastic bowl in my sink. I have a parent from Germany and I'm from the South, so both my spoken and written discourse can be a touch... different.

 

[dougfitz]

The first Colony in North America was Spanish. San Augustine. Just being a Pedant. The first successful English Colony in North America was either Georgia or Virginia. The Mayflower lot were Johnny come Latelies.

I would be inclined to think that the first Europeans to establish a settlement in northern America were vikings from Scandinavia.

 

[jmcarp]

No, half seven means half past seven, not half past six. That was by and large the barrier difference. Sure, used different words but never was there confusion except for the time and they confirmed if I forgot to include a past.

The world would be a better place if we all used digital timepieces. Of course, it would be even better if we all used 24-hour time. 7:30 would be 0730 or 1930 in any language -- no half seven, half past seven, quarter til eight, five after seven, and so on. I'm stopping here before this turns into another metric vs imperial (or whatever it's called) endless threads. Besides, I gotta go -- my wife just got home from the grocery store and is calling me to get a big bag of veggies out of the trunk. I hope she got some cookies and potato chips while she was there. Oh, yeah, she said there were a lot of trees in the parking lot, and a big bird thought the hood of her car was a restroom, so now I have to add a couple of ounces of soap to a gallon of water in my aluminum bucket and clean that up, too.

 

[Albertagirl]

So .... anyone had a problem on Camino? Such as asking for the rest room instead of bathroom or loo and being shown the dormitory?

A friend related to me that during a visit to Spain she had asked for a washroom after a meal, and been shown into a small room containing only a wash basin, which was not what she needed at all. I suppose that she had requested a lavabo and the hostess misunderstood her requirement. I have notice that there are a lot of different names for this facility in Spain, depending on the local term: eg. servicios, aseos, etc. I have even seen "w.c." in Spain. I suppose that this could necessitate a double translation for someone primarily familiar with the American terms. And of course persons from other parts of the world may wonder why North Americans will request the location of the bathroom when we do not require a bath.

 

[Anna Sar]

I’m not American, i’m Korean/Swiss - but why do you have a plastic bowl in your sink??

They have two separate taps for cold and hot water. A plastic bowl is a fantastic feature that provides comfort, convenience and pleasure of the water just warm enough

 

[Caligal]

'Cos we is civilised Taken from elsewhere "Because it uses less water, because you're less likely to damage a plate by accidentally knocking it against a plastic bowl than against a metal sink, because if you suddenly want to use the sink for some other purpose you can lift the whole lot out, because you can tip cold tea or vegetable water down the side of the bowl rather than all over your crockery ..... "

I would add - if you need to clean up a mess it is simple to take the bowl with soapy water and a cloth in it to the spill ... or same for cleaning windows ... or if someone is feeling sick .... or putting washed wet clothes in it to take out to hang on the washing line ... or using the used water in it to water the plants etc etc etc
it really is a fab thing to have!

Yet another English - American word difference I for one have a plastic bowl in my sink, however we Americans call them basins.

 

[ElnaJune]

Hi. I have a probably stupid question—I am preparing for my first Camino, and as a Californian I speak only Spanglish, but could I not ask politely for “el baño”?

 

[trecile]

Hi. I have a probably stupid question—I am preparing for my first Camino, and as a Californian I speak only Spanglish, but could I not ask politely for “el baño”?

You could, but in Spain it's more common to ask for los servicios.
And don't ask for jugo de naranja - in Spain it's zumo, and the fresh squeezed zumo natural de naranja is the best!

 

[Marcus-UK]

I always thought whitegoods in kitchens included the bride/wife who was responsible for washing up:-?

 

[C clearly]

I for one have a plastic bowl in my sink, however we Americans call them basins.

I cannot support my interpretation, but I think they are slightly difference shapes - a basin tends to have more of a flat bottom, maybe better for use as a washing container, while a bowl is more spherical and better for mixing cake batter. I am not sure if that is a regional language issue, just a very fine distinction, or even my own idiosyncratic usage.

In any case, the thing I use in my sink is a bowl .

 

[Marcus-UK]

I would be inclined to think that the first Europeans to establish a settlement in northern America were vikings from Scandinavia.

I actually said successful Colony i.e. one that prospered and evolved over a long period of time. The Norsemen stopped roving west wards after the black death took hold in Europe. The Greenland colony was also abandoned.
The Basques also had seasonal settlements where they salted Cod for their home market and it is rumored that Cabot used their information on his voyages to North America. There have been early iron artifacts found in North America that have metallurgical properties similar to products from the Basque region of Spain.
Most of this is just due to the fact I am retired and have the time to watch the discovery channel:-}}

 

[RemysMimi]

I was soooo confused. I though the plastic bowl was in the "restroom", "loo", "toilet". A little slow but I get it now. I grew up in the southern part of the US and we used "bowls" (more like square plastic tubs) to do our dishes in the kitchen (is that what you Brits call it?) of course.

 

[chinacat]

I still don't have a dishwasher..
Well not an electric one anyway!
My dishwasher is called Charlie and he does a great job with the dishes ...and the pots and pans ....great for keeping the electricity bills down!!

I have one of those too

 

[Kanga]

In Australia we are not so much descendants of colonialists but of convicts or 'free-settlers". And the first generation of free children born to convict parents were called currency lads or lasses. Although what this has to do with the Camino I have no idea! Better go back and read the whole thread.

 

[chinacat]

I cannot support my interpretation, but I think they are slightly difference shapes - a basin tends to have more of a flat bottom, maybe better for use as a washing container, while a bowl is more spherical and better for mixing cake batter. I am not sure if that is a regional language issue, just a very fine distinction, or even my own idiosyncratic usage.

In any case, the thing I use in my sink is a bowl .

In that case, I have a basin in my basin (kitchen sink) and a small basin in my cloakroom, wherein I do not hang cloaks.
And, I hope you wash that bowl before you use it for making cake, @C clearly

 

[C clearly]

Good point. I will try to remember in the unlikely event that I decide to bake a cake!

 

[Saint Mike II]

Re colonists vs colonials - the object of the humour was to be absurd - therefore I used colonists rather than colonials - I could have used revolting rebels who committed high treason - look my post is supposed to be lighthearted ... merely a humorous way to idle away time ...

...did I mention that aluminium has more than one I in it? or that herb begins with an H ? or that momentarily means just for a moment, it doesn't mean soon? of course not ...

David - during WWI the British Army Generals (in particular) referred to Australian soldiers as "colonials" and even used the term when referring to Lt Gen Sir John Monash, even after King George V "knighted him in the field", the last man to be so honoured.

 

[Davey Boyd]

Hardly any of us have dishwashers - well, if you exclude the servants of course.

I used to have a dishwasher. But she left me years ago (for some reason).

Then I bought a plastic bowl. I love my plastic bowl very much.

Davey

 

[Jim McMurtrie]

As my good friend Peter (petah) frequently reminds me there is still not an English speaking colony in America.

 

[nycwalking]

The world would be a better place if we all used digital timepieces. Of course, it would be even better if we all used 24-hour time. 7:30 would be 0730 or 1930 in any language -- no half seven, half past seven, quarter til eight, five after seven, and so on. I'm stopping here before this turns into another metric vs imperial (or whatever it's called) endless threads. Besides, I gotta go -- my wife just got home from the grocery store and is calling me to get a big bag of veggies out of the trunk. I hope she got some cookies and potato chips while she was there. Oh, yeah, she said there were a lot of trees in the parking lot, and a big bird thought the hood of her car was a restroom, so now I have to add a couple of ounces of soap to a gallon of water in my aluminum bucket and clean that up, too.

You didn’t use that plastic bowl?

 

[dougfitz]

I actually said successful Colony i.e. one that prospered and evolved over a long period of time. The Norsemen stopped roving west wards after the black death took hold in Europe. The Greenland colony was also abandoned.
The Basques also had seasonal settlements where they salted Cod for their home market and it is rumored that Cabot used their information on his voyages to North America. There have been early iron artifacts found in North America that have metallurgical properties similar to products from the Basque region of Spain.
Most of this is just due to the fact I am retired and have the time to watch the discovery channel:-}}

I should have made it clearer that I was referring to your comment that the first colony was established by the Spanish, which does seem to be a common misunderstanding. We could probably have a very interesting discussion about the matters you have raised, but perhaps we would be digressing too far were we to do that.

 

[John Crawford Howell]

In the Philippines, it is called the Comfort Room or C.R., for short. The Spanish colonized the Philippines long before the term los Servicios came into existence. Given it is an accommodation we humans require pretty much everyday, best to learn what it is called in the host countries we visit, especially in the event of an "urgency." Cometh now an apology to any tree that may have been offended...

 

[David]

Comfort Room? sounds like a pleasant old bar to me!!

 

[John Crawford Howell]

David, our common Welsh (Grandmother was a Jones) sensibilities join together sublimely. Pleasant old bar, indeed!

 

[MarkyD]

I wish one day to walk with a southerner (deep-south) and a brit, and both accuse each other of not speaking English. That would be fun!

That can happen if the "southerner" is from the south of England and the "northerner" is from the north of England. If accents are strong e.g. proper Cockney accent from London and proper Geordie accent from Newcastle, then they would probably struggle to understand eachother at all......
Just sayin....innit.....

 

[SeaHorse]

Long time ago when I didn't know how American English was different from the one I had learnt at school I had lunch in a restaurant with two nice American ladies. At some point they asked if I knew where it bathroom is.
- Wha...??? What do you need a bathroom for? (only thing we use the bathroom is to take a bath)
- Ops, eh, to wash our hands....
- Could you do it in the toilet maybe?
- Oh, yes, sure! and off they ran.

 

[nycwalking]

Long time ago when I didn't know how American English was different from the one I had learnt at school I had lunch in a restaurant with two nice American ladies. At some point they asked if I knew where it bathroom is.
- Wha...??? What do you need a bathroom for? (only thing we use the bathroom is to take a bath)
- Ops, eh, to wash our hands....
- Could you do it in the toilet maybe?
- Oh, yes, sure! and off they ran.

Learnt? Learned!

Bathroom? The American ladies were incrorrect.

A bathroom, is located within the home.

The restroom, is found everywhere else.

On second camino a Spaniard gave me a long-winded dissertation on using the word “manejar” versus “conducir” when discussing driving or conducting a car.

In Los Angeles, only one of my Spanish teachers was Spanish, all the rest South American, ergo “manejar” was the way to go.

I love language versus cultural differences.

 

[John Crawford Howell]

Many years ago in Hong Kong before Mandarin was taught in schools as broadly as it is today, I observed two Chinese gentlemen sitting at a table next to me on the veranda of the Peak Cafe (Victoria Peak). One spoke Mandarin, so I assumed he was from the mainland; the other spoke Cantonese. They struggled to understand each other until this happened: they wrote notes in Chinese and passed them back and forth. They then understood each other perfectly. They laughed heartily.

Last weekend, a friend from Shanghai was visiting, and I told her this story. She said, "oh, yes, this was a very common thing to do during this time."

I doubt I would be able to understand English spoken as proper Cockney or proper Geordie. Or, for that matter, someone from the deep south of the USA, but knowing there is the written word gives me hope. Of course, when all else fails, there is always "Google Translate."

 

[Marcus-UK]

Many years ago in Hong Kong before Mandarin was taught in schools as broadly as it is today, I observed two Chinese gentlemen sitting at a table next to me on the veranda of the Peak Cafe (Victoria Peak). One spoke Mandarin, so I assumed he was from the mainland; the other spoke Cantonese. They struggled to understand each other until this happened: they wrote notes in Chinese and passed them back and forth. They then understood each other perfectly. They laughed heartily.

Last weekend, a friend from Shanghai was visiting, and I told her this story. She said, "oh, yes, this was a very common thing to do during this time."

I doubt I would be able to understand English spoken as proper Cockney or proper Geordie. Or, for that matter, someone from the deep south of the USA, but knowing there is the written word gives me hope. Of course, when all else fails, there is always "Google Translate."

Certain languages like Arabic can have totally different pronunciations even though the written language is common. I think this may be called Didactic though I could be wrong? Ramadan in Egyptian Arabic is pronounced Ramazan in Turkish even though both are base on exactly the same Arabic written text. Modern Turkish is further complicated since the Western Latin Alphabet was adopted early in the 20th Century.

 

[Marcus-UK]

That can happen if the "southerner" is from the south of England and the "northerner" is from the north of England. If accents are strong e.g. proper Cockney accent from London and proper Geordie accent from Newcastle, then they would probably struggle to understand eachother at all......
Just sayin....innit.....

I wonder whether a certain G Washington had a Geordie accent since his family came from Tyne and Wear in the North of England???

 

[TaijiPilgrim]

This thread seems to have two sub-threads - differences in language and a conversation on American colonies. Last night I watched a program called "Secrets of the Dead." The topic was the history of St. Augustine, settled by the Spanish in 1565 - the first permanent European settlement in what would become the United States of America. The first permanent European settlement in the "New World" was Santo Domingo in the West Indies. This program taught me more Spanish-American history than I have ever known and this general lack of knowledge on my part can be attributed to the saying that history is written by the victors.

 

[David]

English accents (some of them)

 

[John Crawford Howell]

That was Ataturk's contribution to bring a modernizing Turkey closer to the west. It's been said (that he said) his greatest mistake was having the capital in Ankara.

 

[Marcus-UK]

The majority of Hollywood representations of California always appear to be very "Gringo" Centric. The only representation of Spanish era California seems to Zorro with Tyrone Power (Gringo playing Californian) or Banderas (Spaniard playing Californian) and they all seem to have spoken English???

 

[John Crawford Howell]

Thank you, Taiji. I will watch this.

 

[nycwalking]

The majority of Hollywood representations of California always appear to be very "Gringo" Centric. The only representation of Spanish era California seems to Zorro with Tyrone Power (Gringo playing Californian) or Banderas (Spaniard playing Californian) and they all seem to have spoken English???

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, more and more service employers require employees to speak Spanish.

Things that make you go: “Um”.

 

[John Crawford Howell]

I was such a poor student in high school Spanish, it's a minor miracle I passed the class. I still struggle getting out of the present tense. That said, I think it would be helpful if Americans were conversant in Spanish, since Spanish speakers represent the largest non-native-English-speaking cohort in the USA. Learning another language also does wonders for the "empathetic gene" that in too many people lies dormant.

 

[nycwalking]

I was such a poor student in high school Spanish, it's a minor miracle I passed the class. I still struggle getting out of the present tense. That said, I think it would be helpful if Americans were conversant in Spanish, since Spanish speakers represent the largest non-native-English-speaking cohort in the USA. Learning another language also does wonders for the "empathetic gene" that in too many people lies dormant.

There are too many ways to answer none of which should be written on this thread or forum.

So, joy to all.

 

[DyanTX]

It was because the dishes got washed in the bowl. Back when no one had electric dishwashers. The bowl was called the “washing up bowl”. That is what I remember.

Ah ha! Now I see! The plastic bowl is what we called a "dishpan". It was used just as you describe and specifically prior to the luxury of dishwashers. This was in the south - but not deep South - rather in the south of Texas.

 

[Johnathon]

Hi - my daughter is in the States at the moment and it led me to thinking about how the colonists - ooppss, sorry, Americans, speak English versus Brits speaking English - rubber rather than eraser for instance - ... then I have had American visitors who can't work out why there is a plastic bowl in my sink .... or why when they ask for ice in a drink they only get two cubes, and so on.

So .... anyone had a problem on Camino? Such as asking for the rest room instead of bathroom or loo and being shown the dormitory?
(only for fun)

I got confused in the classification of the stories in a building, when, at an albergue, I was trying to find a bed on the Second floor. Of course the numbering system is different between North America and Europe, but at the end of the day I didn't recall that fact. The consequences were amicable . I eventually was shooed upstairs to the European second floor.

 

[NorthernLight]

Hold the presses! @David ... what's the business with ice cubes?

 

[Chenahusky]

I do not know about two nations divided. On a trip to North Wales (U.K.), I met two young American women, who had met up travelling, a couple of days earlier. One was from Boston and one from the Mississippi delta. When we were alone, the Boston one asked me could I understand the other one. to which I said yes. She said, "I only understand some of what she says". Her speech was certainly long and slow, in a nice way. I agreed that I would update her from time to time.
I left them when they were going to a place, for accommodation. On finding were they were staying, I wrote down the nearest bus stop and suggested they show the driver. I felt that I didn't have enough time to teach them, the pronunciation for Dwygyfylchi.
In South Wales the traditional name for a wash basin was a bosh. Not to be confused with the English, kibosh/kybosh e.g. to put and end to a plan or action.
Thank you all for another great thread,
John.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Not just two nations, as English is a language that is defined by its dialects and its regional accents.

Standard English nowadays is mostly its mid-Atlantic variety true, and that's an idiom I tend to speak a little bit too much of myself -- but even in the original manners of the language, it has four major variants in England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland. Plus countless dialects and "accents".

But it's still just one language, and it's quite rare for two variants of it leading to significant intercommunication problems (though the heavier Scots accents can occasionally be difficult to some people from the New World).

 

[JabbaPapa]

I would be inclined to think that the first Europeans to establish a settlement in northern America were vikings from Scandinavia.

Some South American languages are related to Ancient Egyptian. No Northern American ones are related to Norse.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

though the heavier Scots accents can occasionally be difficult to some people from the New World

A language professor of mine told of being confused with the Newfoundland accent. He said he felt better about that when he realized that every second sentence used by the locals in a conversation was "What?"

 

[JabbaPapa]

English accents (some of them)

Interesting, but some of the ones she's doing are flawed -- most surprisingly, her rendition of the Received Pronunciation (both versions, BBC and Queen's, and she completely skipped Oxbridge).

Her Scots ones are brilliant, even though she scrupulously avoided the thicker ones.

 

[Pelegrin]

Some South American languages are related to Ancient Egyptian. No Northern American ones are related to Norse.

????
Could you give more information ?

 

[Marcus-UK]

I got confused in the classification of the stories in a building, when, at an albergue, I was trying to find a bed on the Second floor. Of course the numbering system is different between North America and Europe, but at the end of the day I didn't recall that fact. The consequences were amicable . I eventually was shooed upstairs to the European second floor.

Europeans are taught to count from Zero so ground floor is zero. European buildings also have a floor thirteen (if they are tall enough)

 

[Marcus-UK]

????
Could you give more information ?

????
Could you give more information ?

What about the swear words used by Sven at the deli when he drops his meatballs;-?

 

[JabbaPapa]

????
Could you give more information ?

Hard to relocate sources for it, as most search bots link to tinfoil hat stuff.

Google can be particularly difficult with anything that's counter-narrative ... These things are not helped by the oft-repeated but dubious claim that the Ancient Egyptians were blacks, but that's veering into the political.

The discovery that some vocabulary of some South American languages was of Egyptian origin made a small splash some years ago, but truth is that very few people even cared slightly about it. Dunno how deep those reports are buried presently.

 

[chinacat]

English accents (some of them)

I’ve never heard a ‘gog’ speak like that!!

Wales has so many, many different accents ... Cerdiff, Llanelli, my nearest village ... welsh-speaking, and with a different accent from the small market town 4 miles away (different climate, too!), Py’Tâlbyt ...
( ... autocarrot doesn’t like that!!)

(Pacé David ... I should have put Neath in front of that ... and I couldn’t find a substitute for that last ‘y’ ... after all, it is at the end )

Our neighbours don’t watch S4C ... they can’t understand the gogs

 

[chinacat]

I felt that I didn't have enough time to teach them, the pronunciation for Dwygyfylchi.

Ddim yn broblem ...

In the summer months, some vehicles are inclined to slow down when they reach the sign for the village of: Eglwyswrw ...

 

[nycwalking]

I’ve often passed this town on way to somewhere else.

 

[RumAndChupacabras]

I’ve often passed this town on way to somewhere else.
View attachment 61181

It's me! LOL

 

[RumAndChupacabras]

@David, thanks for posting #61...how stinkin' adorable is she?!

While reading this thread all I keep hearing are 2 awful accents. One terrible attempt to sound British, done by K. Kostnr in Robin Hoek and anytime Rachel Wize tries to sound Emerikan.

 

[nycwalking]

View attachment 61182

It's me! LOL

Ha!

Just returned from 4TH in Vegas on Sunday.

 

[RumAndChupacabras]

@nycwalking, next time let me know if you want to meet!

 

[nycwalking]

@nycwalking, next time let me know if you want to meet!

Will do.

 

[André Walker]

It's not about American English versus the kind of English the British speak, but about French. Maybe there's a French speaking person who can enlighten me?

Why is a urinal in French called 'uri-noir' when they are always white?

 

[Kathor1]

The discovery that some vocabulary of some South American languages was of Egyptian origin made a small splash some years ago, but truth is that very few people even cared slightly about it. Dunno how deep those reports are buried presently.

Type Brian Stubbs Egyptian into a Google search box. This appears to be related to the Latter Day Saints and their Book of Mormon. Very little reaction from unrelated linguists, so either it is accepted without objection or they didn't bother to address his work ...

 

[JabbaPapa]

OK, I dug a little deeper into it (thanks for motivating towards the verification Kathar1na -- though I avoided the Mormon stuff, well established as being deliberately fraudulent), and it seems the claim originated in the 18th Century. It's gained little traction since then, and whilst some DNA and archeological anomalies found in the Americas have surfaced, the fact that the Vikings made it to North America can explain a few of them ; but a somewhat annoying number of Roman artefacts have been discovered there too, though the fact that demonstrably the Romans went as far as the Canary Islands is such that multiple potential explanations are possible for those anomalies.

The linguistic similarities in question, however, are seemingly of a purely structural nature rather than any vocabulary, so it's actually a fairly weak theory (sorry for suggesting otherwise) -- particularly given that all peoples have an African origin so that it is far from impossible that such parallel outcomes could arise.

Even so, some elements from Ancient Egyptian persist in some African languages, so that even IF some more robust evidence were brought to light, that would still be weakly informative as to its origin.

 

[Marcus-UK]

It's not about American English versus the kind of English the British speak, but about French. Maybe there's a French speaking person who can enlighten me?

Why is a urinal in French called 'uri-noir' when they are always white?

The classic public french urinal is called a "Pissoir" You also get them in the UK. They are generally highly ornate cast iron affairs.



An extremely funny French book called Clochmerle concerns the the fight between conservative Catholics opposing the installation against modernising Republicans. The riots caused the French Government to send in the army.

 

[David]

I suppose the differences in English in former colonies compared to the homeland isn't so strange - perhaps it is strange that the divergence isn't more.

So .. idly thinking here. 14th Century Geoffery Chaucer, of Canterbury Tales fame. The first person to write published works in the English language. Two children of his grew up and had children. All three generations spoke English to each other without any problems, from grandparents to grandchildren - stay with me here ... those children had children ... down the centuries there were always three, sometimes four, generations, from children to grandparents, even great grandparents, who all spoke clear understandable English to each other, without any known suspicion of change, alteration, or problem.
So - from Chaucer to now is perhaps 26 to 30 generations, all the generations speaking and writing clear and understandable English to each other - so, I ask myself, how on earth did it happen that if Chaucer and I were in the same room today we would be totally unable to speak to each other, each of us would have what appears to be a completely foreign language??? .. just wondering, as you do ....

 

[VNwalking]

how on earth did it happen that if Chaucer and I were in the same room today we would be totally unable to speak to each other, each of us would have what appears to be a completely foreign language??? .. just wondering, as you do ....

It's linguistic drift, the evolution of new words, as well as Chinese whispers (Commonwealth English) or telephone (American English). (And there you go. Two nations separated by the same language.)

Think of English now versus English 50 years ago.
There are a ton of new words now that someone then would have been completely stumped by. Just off the top of my head: podcast, upload, selfie, crowdfund, bromance, paywall, mansplaining, photobomb, vlog, flash mob, etc, ect, ect...
And that's change that's happened in only 50 years. Multiply that by roughly 700 years.

 

[Deleted member 397]

The classic public french urinal is called a "Pissoir" You also get them in the UK. They are generally highly ornate cast iron affairs.

View attachment 61409

An extremely funny French book called Clochmerle concerns the the fight between conservative Catholics opposing the installation against modernising Republicans. The riots caused the French Government to send in the army.

There are a few like that in Melbourne. ..'conveniently ' placed for when in walk into town

 

[David]

Think of English now versus English 50 years ago.
There are a ton of new words now that someone then would have been completely stumped by. Just off the top of my head: podcast, upload, selfie, crowdfund, bromance, paywall, mansplaining, photobomb, vlog, flash mob, etc, ect, ect...
And that's change that's happened in only 50 years. Multiply that by roughly 700 years.

and there were also local dialects which intermingled - but is fascinating isn't it. Back in the time of Shakespeare we used the word 'fall' for autumn. The Americans have that now and we use 'autumn' - but how? why? Who knows.

and then we have Shakespeare, that genius, who invented over 1700 words that are in common usage today, changing nouns into verbs, changing verbs into adjectives, connecting words never before used together, adding prefixes and suffixes, and actually creating brand new words and phrases - here are some -

 

[VNwalking]

fascinating isn't it. Back in the time of Shakespeare we used the word 'fall' for autumn. The Americans have that now and we use 'autumn' - but how? why? Who knows.

fascinating, indeed. I use both those words. 'Fall' is more casual.

The drift of accents fascinates me. American and Canadian accents are similar, and more akin to Irish than English to my ear.

 

[David]

fascinating, indeed. I use both those words. 'Fall' is more casual.

The drift of accents fascinates me. American and Canadian accents are similar, and more akin to Irish than English to my ear.

Yes .... it is possible that Chaucer's English wasn't common English because only a couple of hundred years later we have Shakespeare's works and we read them easily ... the same with The King James Bible - so something happened quickly, within a couple of hundred years ... was he writing phonetically, to his accent? rather than to common spoken English?

Here some of the original text from the Tales, with modern translation - so maybe he was writing phonetically or to his own regional accent?

Whilom, as olde stories tellen us,
Once, as old histories tell us,
860 Ther was a duc that highte Theseus;
There was a duke who was called Theseus;
861 Of Atthenes he was lord and governour,
He was lord and governor of Athens,
862 And in his tyme swich a conquerour
And in his time such a conqueror
863 That gretter was ther noon under the sonne.
That there was no one greater under the sun.
864 Ful many a riche contree hadde he wonne;
Very many a powerful country had he won;
865 What with his wysdom and his chivalrie,
What with his wisdom and his chivalry,
866 He conquered al the regne of Femenye,
He conquered all the land of the Amazons,

Though - once printing became established so did conformity.

 

[VNwalking]

This is an old but very good documentary, very well done:

 

[SabsP]

I can recommend you Lingo from Dutch linguist Gaston Dorren.

Lingo: A Language-Spotter’s Guide to Europe by Gaston Dorren review – learned and pleasantly ironic

English is illogical, French has a mother fixation – and the future is Mandarin. By Steven Poole

www.theguardian.com

LINGO

LINGO is my book about European languages, especially written for non-linguists. It may also be read, off-label, by linguists, language teachers and translators in need of a reminder that languages…

languagewriter.com

Entertaining and educational.

 

[MarkyD]

I suppose the differences in English in former colonies compared to the homeland isn't so strange - perhaps it is strange that the divergence isn't more.

So .. idly thinking here. 14th Century Geoffery Chaucer, of Canterbury Tales fame. The first person to write published works in the English language. Two children of his grew up and had children. All three generations spoke English to each other without any problems, from grandparents to grandchildren - stay with me here ... those children had children ... down the centuries there were always three, sometimes four, generations, from children to grandparents, even great grandparents, who all spoke clear understandable English to each other, without any known suspicion of change, alteration, or problem.
So - from Chaucer to now is perhaps 26 to 30 generations, all the generations speaking and writing clear and understandable English to each other - so, I ask myself, how on earth did it happen that if Chaucer and I were in the same room today we would be totally unable to speak to each other, each of us would have what appears to be a completely foreign language??? .. just wondering, as you do ....

Hi David, and all those of you interested in the language differences and changes over time.
The link below is a Podcast by Christian of Canguro English, who teaches English online and at his English School in Galicia. It shows that languages are ALIVE, always changing bit by bit.
There is also developing an "international English" - the English spoken by non-native English speakers, which you will no doubt hear a lot of it while walking the Camino. Smile and engage with the living transformation of "your English" while communicating with your fellow pilgrims, hospitaler@s, locals and other world travellers.

Bueno Camino