Tourniquet: Does anyone bring one on the Camino?

[JillGat]

Concerning "epipens", unless one is trained to a higher degree than "just" a basic or senior first aid course I would be most reluctant to both carry and use one on someone I do not know and whose medical history I don't know. Yes those who are asthmatic; have a know alergic reaction to bees/wasps etc should carry one and be able to effectively administer or instruct others in its use.

Yes, the same is true for a tourniquet. It can be dangerous if one is not trained in its use.

 

[Deleted member 43780]

I still like the second or so comment: using the tourniquet for those annoying snoring fellow bed mates. Good idea.

Never heard of a tourniquet for a head wound. ?????

Basic first aid: stop the bleeding, protect the wound, prevent shock. Remember those three basic things and you will do wonders to save a life.

 

[chinacat]

A good idea, but at nearly $340.00 I'd have to pass. That, and I believe it is a prescription item available only to those with a documented allergy, like a peanut allergy or an allergy to bees.

The price of epipens has been inflated in the last few years. I can’t remember the exact figures, but I do remember being shocked by the ridiculous increases, particularly in the US.

I carry two epipens in my bag, two in the car, and have one by my bed.
I am not in the US, thankfully. I usually need to use two ...

They are fairly easy to administer and the dose is lower than that used in A&E.

Like a tourniquet, they can save lives.

So ... if I see someone with breathing difficulties caused by an allergic reaction, do I worry about their medical history, or do I act to save their life?
(I’d probably look through their bag/pack pockets first, in fact .... hopefully they’d be wearing a pendant/bracelet that says they carry epipens).
They are a temporary solution .... urgent medical attention is still required.

You don’t need a documented allergy .... you just need to experience what they call a ‘histamine cascade’ or an abnormal mast cell reaction ... often from unknown causes.

 

[Kimtom]

If I had even the slightest idea what half this thread is speaking about I would then have half the idea of carrying this "item". Spain is not a 3rd world country you ring 112 and help would be minutes away. I have seen the rescue helicopters flying over the Camino and Cities. If you feel safer walking with a lemon balanced on your head then do so. I personally would never carry a piece of equipment that I do not know 110% of how to use it that include First Aid and also my cellphone

On the windy days you could use the tourniquet to tie the lemon to your head...

 

[Irish Bernie]

Electric guitar E string - the one with the little grommit not the ball type so you can thread through Mwa Ha Ha!

Ah but that's the lazy assassins way,not much effort required

 

[Irish Bernie]

Thankfully, no I haven't. Like previous posts I would apply direct pressure to the relevant arterial pressure point to stem the flow, see diagram below. To be perfectly honest with you if you want to prepare for the worst and hope for the best, I would learn where the arterial pressure points are and/or take an advanced first aid course.
View attachment 44346

Bad case of Measles right there :O!!!!!

 

[Marbe2]

GettingThere said: This is such an interesting thread. @Marbe2 I know this won't have been your intention, but it's inspiring me to seek out a first aid refresher course. That's one simple thing we can all do.

@Getting There
Good for You! I too am taking a couple of refresher courses. And I will take a tourniquet. I can carry an extra 4 ozs!

Malachiuri wrote:
Well, Im the guy who wrote the "Calm Down" post and I personally carried a CAT Gen 7 tourniquet on me as well as Celox bleed control pads and a few other things in my pack for emergencies. I have seen some horrific accidents on trails(usually involving folks on bikes) so I took a class at my local EMS station for free to learn to use the right gear to assist till help arrives.

Google "Stop the Bleed" program if you are interested, or go here: https://cms.bleedingcontrol.org/class/search

@Malachiuri Being “calm” in responding to an emergency is very important as you know! I am updating first aid courses and intend to practice with the new tourniquet before going back to the Camino.

With regards to epipens, agree with St Mike II that anyone who has a severe allergy should carry their own epipen...likely a two pack epipen. If you have a clear prescription from your physician you can get them at pharmacies in spain a lot cheaper. I too would be reluctant to inject an epipen into someone else. However, if I had one, and the person was conscious and asked if I had one to use, yes, I would give it to them to inject.

Folks, we spend agreat deal of time getting our equipment ready, making sure our shoes are fitted correctly. Do we have the right socks? Have we done enough physical preparation? Based upon this thread, maybe many of us might consider the benefits from a first aid refresher course! The bleedcontrol course is free and only takes one hour. It could save your life or someone else’s! So I will post it again for your consideration.

https://cms.bleedingcontrol.org/class/search

Please do not be deluded into thinking that if you are on the CF and have a life threatening bleed that rescuers will get to you in time.

 

[Thornley]

I was wondering if anyone brings a tourniquet that is light and easy to use? Recommendations welcome.

What next to the list.
Just go and have a walk and let it pan out.

 

[Kieran Kenneally]

Members are reminded that using tourniquets on the necks of persistent snorers is actively discouraged in most Albergues...

Funny you should say that somebody actually leaned over the top bunk in the Ronsevalles dormitory and put his two hands around my brothers neck to prevent him snoring Seems to have done the trick though because he didn't snore for at least a week afterwards!

 

[Deleted member 12253]

I was wondering if anyone brings a tourniquet that is light and easy to use? Recommendations welcome.

No but an inflatable canoe can be very useful for crossing all the streams on vdlp or rivers or crossings rivers on Norte

 

[Marbe2]

No but an inflatable canoe can be very useful for crossing all the streams on vdlp or rivers or crossings rivers on Norte

There are some really good responses regarding use of a Tourniquet by pilgrims. If you have time take a look at what others wrote? It might save someone’s life!

 

[JillGat]

inflatable canoe...

I was thinking a hovercraft.

 

[JillGat]

But back to the tourniquet.. it would be nice if it were something you could also use for other things. It would probably need to be wider than a belt, tho. Why not just a 1 1/2" wide strip of nylon webbing?

 

[Albertagirl]

Thank you! I could not agree more with the need to have a tourniquet available! I have had first aid and do know how to apply a tourniquet...but wanted to know abt current recommendations and a light weight one that is effective. The one recommended by the AMERICAN RED CROSS is only 4oz....not too much weight for a life saving device!

Everyone deals with uncomfortable topics differently? Some joke, or use sarcasm or suggest you carry lemons on your head? Me, I have already scheduled a STOP THE BLEED WORKSHOP for next week - workshop is one hour and is free! Always good to update! Given the nature of our world today, having current training to deal with such emergencies is IMO prudent!

@Marbe2
I just want to say "Thank you." I have often wondered what caused the deaths of the many pilgrims whose memorials are seen along the caminos. Perhaps the accident to your sister made this question more personal to you. I admire you for doing what you can to take action to help others who may experience an accident on camino when you are present. And, of course, to do so responsibly by taking more first aide training and carrying supplies that you can use to help others. Perhaps it is time that I should renew my training.

 

[JillGat]

At various points during this thread, the OP, Marbe2 said:

1. "when crossing the mountains in winter"

and:

2. "The one recommended by the AMERICAN RED CROSS is only 4oz....not too much weight for a life saving device!"

Re. 1.: First, it is discouraged to cross the mountains in winter. It not only puts you, but also puts the rescuers at risk. It is unnecessary and irresponsible in my opinion and I have little empathy for people who insist on breaking such rules. If you do, then expect to be on your own and not expect help anytime soon.

And re: 2.: If you have this information, why are you asking for advice on this?

In my opinion, tourniquets are very low on the priority list of pilgrim interested in minimalist packing for a long walk on easy trails. Having First Aid training, however doesn't weigh anything, so that's probably a good idea.

 

[Marbe2]

At various points during this thread, the OP, Marbe2 said:

1. "when crossing the mountains in winter"

and:

2. "The one recommended by the AMERICAN RED CROSS is only 4oz....not too much weight for a life saving device!"

Re. 1.: First, it is discouraged to cross the mountains in winter. It not only puts you, but also puts the rescuers at risk. It is unnecessary and irresponsible in my opinion and I have little empathy for people who insist on breaking such rules. If you do, then expect to be on your own and not expect help anytime soon.

And re: 2.: If you have this information, why are you asking for advice on this?

In my opinion, tourniquets are very low on the priority list of pilgrim interested in minimalist packing for a long walk on easy trails. Having First Aid training, however doesn't weigh anything, so that's probably a good idea.

To Jill!

Response to point 1
Jill, when I stated that I was crossing the mountains in in winter, I did not mean from SJPD to Roncevalles. What I was referring to was the route from Foncebadon to ponferrada and the route up to OCebriero. We stay on the road mostly because there is too much snow. We also discuss with locals whether it is safe, weather wise, to cross. We are not breaking any rules! Nevertheless, there are times we see no one for hours. When one has a life threatening bleed that requires a tourniquete the victim may have only several minutes time before any intervention may be too late. This can happen at any time of year!

Point 2

When I started the thread, I was interested in what kind of tourniquetes were being used. I learned a lot from several of the more Informed pilgrims such as sunwanderer, davebuggs, Constantine and several others. That is what makes this forum so valuable for me. Davebuggs post was helpful regarding the type of tourniquet to puchase. I had not settled on one yet...The American Red Cross recommends one that will do the job but ways only 4 ounces.

Several pilgrims, including me, as a result of this thread and the input of others, will update their first aid training. And, yes that weighs nothing! Each of us has to weigh what is in our own best interest to carry. I have no desire to make this personal.

 

[Marbe2]

If you want to be prepared to be able to provide first aid to others, and if you have the proper training, then a tourniquet and a few other lightweight items would not be a problem.

Some of the advice in earlier threads has changed in recent years: Don't use a tourniquet - not true anymore if you have the training; Release every xx minutes - don't release, only someone with advanced medical training should.

Attend a Stop the Bleed training, taught nationwide, mostly by ER & OR physicians, on how to address bleeding. The training is free and only requires one evening. In summary: 1. Pressure, 2. Pressure bandage, 3. Tourniquet (once on, leave it on).

Here's the one that was recommended: Tourniquet.

As mentioned above, it's been used in the OR for 2 hours (my OR MD said that he has used it for 3 hours during knee replacements with no damage).

Clotting Powder: I've carried it in the past, but an ER doc told me to never use it because it is extremely difficult to clean out of the wound. It's better to use one of the 3 options above. I no longer carry it.

A tourniquet is not just for the wilderness or battlefield. We are strongly encouraged to get the training and carry one, and I am in a big city - I keep a tourniquet and pressure bandage in each car. If you have only 1 or 2 minutes to stop the bleeding, the helicopter will arrive too late even if it's one block down the street. And it's difficult to apply a real tourniquet in that amount of time if you haven't practiced, let alone try to come up with a makeshift one.

That's why you need training, and practice, and the real thing.

Hi,

We attended a free Stop the Bleeding workshop last week. They used CAT tourniquets to practice with and they were relatively lite. The instructors suggested that we each carry one as sometimes a second tourniquet is needed for a wound. Anyway, we got to practice using their tourniquets. We practiced using it on a partner and on ourselves. After the workshop I ordered two on-line. They cost abt. $30 US each and each only weigh 3 ounces! They are relatively simple to administer. The instructors do not recommend taking off the tourniquet at all.If you can stop the bleeding leave it on and let second responders deal with the tourniquet issue. The concern is that you may not be able to stop the bleeding once you release it.

 

[Constantine]

Have to say this is a serious thread.

I was with my mum when she was run over by a slow moving electric car.
I know this is not a typical Camino injury - but it's easy for a serious accident to happen - her foot was hanging off
the bleeding was restricted because no damage to her artery but the bones stuck out and they had to reattach her foot with open tib/fib surgery using plates and screws.

This happened outside the main door of a hospital and she was operated on very quickly. if they had been too busy to do surgery (NHS) immediately she could have lost her foot easily because they could not have opperated if there was too much swelling.

I think it's a great idea to bring one

As a doctor who uses tourniquets all the time in the operating room for extremity (arms and legs), I don’t think you need to worry about this. Besides the low probability, unless you bring a full sized surgical tourniquet with bulb and manometer (like a blood pressure cuff) you will *not* be able to stop arterial blood flow. Ropes, rubber bands etc can conpress superficial venous flow but they won’t stop deep venous or arterial blood flow.

 

[Constantine]

As a doctor who uses tourniquets all the time in the operating room for extremity (arms and legs), I don’t think you need to worry about this. Besides the low probability, unless you bring a full sized surgical tourniquet with bulb and manometer (like a blood pressure cuff) you will *not* be able to stop arterial blood flow. Ropes, rubber bands etc can conpress superficial venous flow but they won’t stop deep venous or arterial blood flow.

I stand corrected ~ when you’re in an OR all day, you’re unaware of what’s going on in the outside world. I rarely do first aid! Scanning Amazon I see some portable tourniquets that should be adequate.

Extremities can go a long time without blood flow. The nerves are the most sensitive. In the OR, we use 2 hours max time for total occlusion. You can let down the tourniquet for a while and then tighten it again.

 

[Marbe2]

I stand corrected ~ when you’re in an OR all day, you’re unaware of what’s going on in the outside world. I rarely do first aid! Scanning Amazon I see some portable tourniquets that should be adequate.

Extremities can go a long time without blood flow. The nerves are the most sensitive. In the OR, we use 2 hours max time for total occlusion. You can let down the tourniquet for a while and then tighten it again.

Agree, that current tourniquets such as the C.A.T. are adequate to deal with significant deep bleeding...and they only weigh 3ounces! In my “stop the bleeding” workshop, it was recommended by first responders NOT to LOOSEN the tourniquets. The rational for this is, that you may not be able to get the tourniquet to stop the bleeding the second time! On most Camino routes help should arrive within two hours if ohe has a cell phone. If not, leave the tourniquet on. Better to Risk loosing a limb than bleeding to death! We each carry one.

 

[Constantine]

Agree, that current tourniquets such as the C.A.T. are adequate to deal with significant deep bleeding...and they only weigh 3ounces! In my “stop the bleeding” workshop, it was recommended by first responders NOT to LOOSEN the tourniquets. The rational for this is, that you may not be able to get the tourniquet to stop the bleeding



the second time! On most Camino routes help should arrive within two hours if ohe has a cell phone. If not, leave the tourniquet on. Better to Risk loosing a limb than bleeding to death! We each carry one.

Perhaps that’s good advice if you’re stuck somewhere alone and the bleeding is that bad.

 

[alexwalker]

Well, maybe.... But only on certain things.

Right now, for instance, I am finishing a computer build to handle 4K video processing stuff. Now, I don't know anything about IT, how the components of a computer work, or even how the connections to all the components and the case go on the motherboard. Trying to decipher the manuals and watching YouTube takes multiple exposures to get one tiny bit of relevant instruction into my brain. After three weeks, everything is plugged in, connected screwed into position, and hooked into my existing monitor. Last night I pushed the 'power on' button.

No signal to the monitor, even though all sorts of thingies are lit up in the computer case, fans are turning, and I can feel the hard drives doing something. Sigh. So much for nerdiness. I thought it might be fun to build a computer, but now it seems I need to become a computer diagnostician.

I need a 'real' Nerd

I am a computer engineer. Check that your monitor has a cable to the computer. And that monitor power is ON. A couple of famous early Microsoft error messages:

Monitor not turned on.

Keyboard not present. Press any key to continue. (Where is the ANY key, anyway?)

 

[Felipe]

A tourniquet could have been handy in the times of don Suero de Quiñones, who defied all knights crossing Orbigo bridge to a mano a mano fight. But this was many centuries ago...Currently we don't handle tools more dangerous than a corkscrew.

 

[Marbe2]

A tourniquet could have been handy in the times of don Suero de Quiñones, who defied all knights crossing Orbigo bridge to a mano a mano fight. But this was many centuries ago...Currently we don't handle tools more dangerous than a corkscrew.

Joke if you so desire, but there are many potential “weapons” on a camino , including, bikes, cars, stones...a severe fall, that could cause such bleeding. In the realm of things 3 ounces is worth its weight should one be in such a situation on a camino when such a severe injury occurs!

Anyone who purchases one should receive training on how to use it on yourself and on someone else. In the USA there are free workshops sponsored by “Stop the bleeding”. When a tourniquet is needed, you have only a few minutes of time to apply it.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

I am a computer engineer. Check that your monitor has a cable to the computer. And that monitor power is ON. A couple of famous early Microst error messages:

Monitor not turned on.

Keyboard not present. Press any key to continue.

Thanks, Alex; I appreciate the help. I have since solved the problem which, as it turned out (slapping my forehead) was the installation of drivers during the initial install and boot-up.