Toe Needs your help

[SkyDancer]

Hi,
I recently started my training walks for my September Camino.
On Saturday I walked for two hours and the only problem I had was my second toe (which is smaller than my big toe) the nail was quite tender. And today after an hour and a half walking again it was tender.

After trying many pairs of shoes I found new balance fresh foam more fit my feet and feel great. They have a large toebox with space to wiggle all my toes.
The only thing I can think of is that two years ago I lost the nails on four of my toes. But if that is the reason why aren’t the other three sore as well?

Help!

 

[deborahbennett]

Hi Skydancer,

I like the New Balance Fresh Foam very much too (I have the Trail v1) -- especially because of the large toe box and room to wiggle my toes. For me, my big toe is the one that is a little tender when I wear these shoes. In my case, it's a toe that was hitting against my hiking boot on a hike about a month ago.

I think what is causing this is the very firm material in the front of the shoe. If you feel way up inside of the shoe at the end you will see what I mean. Maybe your other toes that you previously lost nails from aren't hitting this firm material in quite the same way as your tender toe is.

At any rate, two solutions: 1) I wear wool socks with padding in the toe area (I wear Smartwool Hike Light Crew Socks) with silk liner socks underneath them (Lands End brand). This cushions the toe from the shoe so it doesn't feel tender.

2) It also works to wrap some cotton around the toe and keep the cotton in place with some first-aid tape. This provides cushioning, and will also protect your toenails from getting injured and falling off again since it provides a barrier between toes and shoes, especially on steep downhills.

Hope this helps!

Deborah

 

[C clearly]

Are you saying that you are getting a sore toe with your New Balance Fresh Foam shoes, which are otherwise very comfortable, or that you got those NB since you have the toe problem?

Yes, that toe is bumping against something, and it could be the top of the shoe as @deborahbennett suggests. Or course, keeping the toenail short is important, and maybe some "heel lock lacing" would help.

 

[SkyDancer]

Hi Skydancer,

I like the New Balance Fresh Foam very much too (I have the Trail v1) -- especially because of the large toe box and room to wiggle my toes. For me, my big toe is the one that is a little tender when I wear these shoes. In my case, it's a toe that was hitting against my hiking boot on a hike about a month ago.

I think what is causing this is the very firm material in the front of the shoe. If you feel way up inside of the shoe at the end you will see what I mean. Maybe your other toes that you previously lost nails from aren't hitting this firm material in quite the same way as your tender toe is.

At any rate, two solutions: 1) I wear wool socks with padding in the toe area (I wear Smartwool Hike Light Crew Socks) with silk liner socks underneath them (Lands End brand). This cushions the toe from the shoe so it doesn't feel tender.

2) It also works to wrap some cotton around the toe and keep the cotton in place with some first-aid tape. This provides cushioning, and will also protect your toenails from getting injured and falling off again since it provides a barrier between toes and shoes, especially on steep downhills.

Hope this helps!

Deborah

Thank-you Deborah. I will try these two solutions one at a time and report back.

 

[SkyDancer]

Are you saying that you are getting a sore toe with your New Balance Fresh Foam shoes, which are otherwise very comfortable, or that you got those NB since you have the toe problem?

Yes, that toe is bumping against something, and it could be the top of the shoe as @deborahbennett suggests. Or course, keeping the toenail short is important, and maybe some "heel lock lacing" would help.

This started after I got the NB and after I started walking for more than an hour at a time.
Thanks C, will re-check toenail length and Ian’s website again. I got lost in it as who knew there were so many ways to tie laces!

 

[Martin 888]

Hikers Wool from New Zealand……look it up…..end of…..

 

[deborahbennett]

Hikers Wool from New Zealand……look it up…..end of…..

Yes, that's also a possible solution. I have stuffed lambs wool in the toe area of my hiking boots, and it helps.

 

[SkyDancer]

Hikers Wool from New Zealand……look it up…..end of…..

I actually have some arriving tomorrow!

 

[linkster]

You may consider using a gel toe sleeve or cap. This is an example: toe sleeve.

 

[deborahbennett]

You may consider using a gel toe sleeve or cap. This is an example: toe sleeve.

Yes, that's another solution! I just purchased Bungapads All Gel Finger/Toe Caps from Amazon. They cover the entire toe. I haven't tried them out yet when walking, but they felt very comfortable when I tried them on at home.

 

[C clearly]

Of course, there is always the chance that you need a 1/2 size larger shoe!

 

[deborahbennett]

Of course, there is always the chance that you need a 1/2 size larger shoe!

That is always a possibility, and I can't speak for the OP Skydancer, but my pair of the New Balance Fresh Foam -- which is what OP has -- I bought with a full thumb's width of room between my toes and the end of the shoe. So at least for me, it is the firm material in the toe area of the Fresh Foam shoes that hits against my previously-injured toe (injured while wearing my hiking boots, not these trail runners) even though I most definitely "sized up" on the shoes.

But, I want to emphasize, these are amazingly comfortable and wonderful shoes in every way aside from that small issue, which I have totally solved by wearing the Smartwool Hike Light Crew socks with padding in the toes.

 

[DoughnutANZ]

Try to be conscious of what you are doing with your toes as you walk, especially when you walk downhill.

I have a reflex tendency to curl my toes under my feet when I walk down steepish declines. I do this unconsciously to give myself "better grip" but of course, as I am wearing shoes, this does nothing for my grip but does damage my toes and so even when I have tied my laces correctly, trimmed my toenails and I am wearing an extra long size of footwear I still get toenail damage. Particularly on that second toe nearest the big toe.

My solution is to be aware of my toes as I walk downhill and to uncurl them if I find that they are curling up.

 

[davebugg]

I bought with a full thumb's width of room between my toes and the end of the shoe. So at least for me, it is the firm material in the toe area of the Fresh Foam shoes that hits against my previously-injured toe (injured while wearing my hiking boots, not these trail runners) even though I most definitely "sized

It sounds like you didn't size up enough.

 

[deborahbennett]

It sounds like you didn't size up enough.

I definitely didn’t size up enough on those hiking boots that injured my toe. But by the time I bought the New Balance Traill runners I knew better.

 

[SkyDancer]

Of course, there is always the chance that you need a 1/2 size larger shoe!

Yes, I did get 1/2 size larger.

 

[kafnorx]

Hikers Wool from New Zealand……look it up…..end of…..

I second this!

 

[SkyDancer]

Try to be conscious of what you are doing with your toes as you walk, especially when you walk downhill.

I have a reflex tendency to curl my toes under my feet when I walk down steepish declines. I do this unconsciously to give myself "better grip" but of course, as I am wearing shoes, this does nothing for my grip but does damage my toes and so even when I have tied my laces correctly, trimmed my toenails and I am wearing an extra long size of footwear I still get toenail damage. Particularly on that second toe nearest the big toe.

My solution is to be aware of my toes as I walk downhill and to uncurl them if I find that they are curling up.

I saw that advice somewhere here so I am trying to be aware of what my toes are doing and how my feet are feeling as I walk.
There were no hills at all on my two walks. Toronto is very flat. I plan on travelling somewhere to walk up and down hills but I haven’t got that far yet.

 

[deborahbennett]

Yes, I did get 1/2 size larger.

I sized up 1/2 size larger on my hiking boots, which seemed like a lot at the time. But it really wasn't. Then I read that one half size larger is only 4.23 mm or about 1/8 to 1/6 of an inch longer. One full size larger is only 8.46 mm or 1/3 inch longer, which isn't really all that much. So, when I bought my trail runners, I sized up one full size to allow for foot swell when hiking long distances day after day on Caminos. You can wear heavier socks if they feel a little loose at first, and then change to thinner socks as your feet swell.

 

[C clearly]

Yes, I did get 1/2 size larger

I meant you might need the next size larger than whatever size is currently causing the problem.

 

[SkyDancer]

I meant you might need the next size larger than whatever size is currently causing the problem.

Oh, I see.

The rest of both feet are very happy in this size and are super comfortable so not sure I’d want to change shoes for just this one little unhappy guy. Does that make sense?

 

[Former member 91017]

I had a thread about sore toes.... I changed my *socks* to a less snug fit: problem solved.

 

[C clearly]

not sure I’d want to change shoes for just this one little unhappy guy. Does that make sense?

It only takes 1 unhappy guy to ruin your walk. You might be surprised to find that your feet are fine in the next size. A change in socks can easily fill a 1/2 size.

 

[Caminogoat]

Hi,
I recently started my training walks for my September Camino.
On Saturday I walked for two hours and the only problem I had was my second toe (which is smaller than my big toe) the nail was quite tender. And today after an hour and a half walking again it was tender.

After trying many pairs of shoes I found new balance fresh foam more fit my feet and feel great. They have a large toebox with space to wiggle all my toes.
The only thing I can think of is that two years ago I lost the nails on four of my toes. But if that is the reason why aren’t the other three sore as well?

Help!

I buy boots, 2 sizes larger than my regular shoes. I wear toe socks (each sock looks like a glove and has 5 toes) underneath my wool socks. Each morning, I wrapped tender spots also. I took off my boots every couple hours and air dried my feet.

 

[JFG]

I am always amazed at all the viable solutions our helpful members provide for our many pains and maladies, all of which exponentially increase as our birthdays accumulate.
With this particular problem affecting our feet and toes, one thing must always be considered. And that is that as we age and hike, our feet widen, flatten, and swell. We assume we won't get taller and our feet won't grow after a certain age like our waistlines might.
The bend of your toes when on tiptoes needs to be in line with the widest part of your foot in order to give your toes adequate room and frequently the bend of your toes is behind the widest part of the shoe which neans your shoes are too small. On my first Camino in 2003, I wore U.S. 10 1/2 shoes and 13 Caminos later I am now up to size 12 and have no toe problems regardless of the available shoe, socks, and gadget combinations, inclines, or backpack weight.
All of the provided suggestions will always help another! Keep walking.

 

[Texas Walker]

Oh, I see.

The rest of both feet are very happy in this size and are super comfortable so not sure I’d want to change shoes for just this one little unhappy guy. Does that make sense?

No. That little unhappy guy is just the weather forecaster foretelling a storm coming in. So to speak.

It's entirely possible that when you do a more realistic walk of two to three hours--15 km or so, take the morning for it!--your feet will hit the swell point and you will have more problems. Mine hit the swell point at about 13 km...8 miles in other words.

I second the thought that your original 1/2 size increase was not enough. Particularly if your sock setup isn't paper-thin.

 

[FLEUR]

After years of suffering similar toe problems and trying various shoes on different caminos, ive now found the best ever shoes for me.
Meindl, wide, high toe box,1/2 size larger than my every day shoes . Perfect. Socks 1/2 size larger as well.
I've abandoned the gel toe caps. No blisters at all.

BTW stitching on the Meindle shoes started to give way, I sent my shoes to Meindle Germany, repaired FOC !

 

[trecile]

Forget about size, and just make sure that you have enough space past the end of your toes - I think that a thumbs width is usually what is recommended. (depending of course on the size of your thumb!)
Other factors are the type of material in the toe of the shoe, and how much volume there is in the shoe. One trick that I've used is to pull out the insoles and stand on them to see how much space is at the end of the toe.
Or, you could just do what I do and forget about shoes and wear hiking sandals.

 

[Crcwalks]

Feet do swell when putting in long days and miles. Check your socks--seams can be an issue. I had best luck with Oboz boots (4 CF and 1 CP later) and Darn Tough socks. Also untied boots and elevated my feet on breaks, took off sweaty socks and put new ones on. mid-day (never in cafes). If I knew of a potential rub or hot spot, I'd tape my toes every morning.
Buen Camino. I miss it.

 

[backpack45]

I wrap my vulnerable toes with 3M Medipore tape. It comes in a roll, you tear off the number of pieces you need--each little piece is just over an inch long with perforations in between. Quick and easy and does the job.

 

[SkyDancer]

No. That little unhappy guy is just the weather forecaster foretelling a storm coming in. So to speak.

It's entirely possible that when you do a more realistic walk of two to three hours--15 km or so, take the morning for it!--your feet will hit the swell point and you will have more problems. Mine hit the swell point at about 13 km...8 miles in other words.

I second the thought that your original 1/2 size increase was not enough. Particularly if your sock setup isn't paper-thin.

So much advice, thank-you all.
I will do a longer, more realistic walk as you suggest and see what happens then.

 

[davebugg]

I definitely didn’t size up enough on those hiking boots that injured my toe. But by the time I bought the New Balance Traill runners I knew better.

Hi, deborahbennet. Below is a copy of my guide to help you properly select a shoe so that it will fit well and also feel good. It does not matter the brand or model of shoe. If I can be of further help, feel free to contact me through the Forum Private Message function, or at dave1bugg@gmail.com. That is an email address that I maintain specifically for those who wish to reach me by email from a social media site. It is not my personal or business email, so it is kewl to use it.

Please Note: I ignore fitting a shoe that is based on your known shoe size because it doesn't matter. You are fitting shoes to your feet to do a specific activity, and that means that you might need a shoe that is up to two sizes larger and much wider than your current footwear.
----------------

How to Fit Shoes

The most important theme for achieving a proper fit is: You do not choose a shoe based on measurements, you buy a shoe based on its Fit N Feel regardless of instrument measurements.

1. When you go to the store, do so toward the end of the day.... you will have been up on your feet, so that will help with getting the correct fit. Additionally, you will need to wear the same backpack with the same gear you will be carrying... you want this additional weight on you as this will put the same downward pressure on the foot that you will be having while on Camino.
2. Wear the exact same sock(s) you will be wearing while you are walking on the Camino. And if you have a special insole or orthotic, bring it with you.
3. At the store, the measuring that will be done on your feet is only to get you in the ballpark for the correct shoe size.
4. Start by standing up; never measure while sitting. You want the full weight of your body, with the pack on, to put the same pressure on your feet to spread them out as will happen while walking. That alone will increase the volume and size of your feet.
5. Make sure those 'Camino' socks are on your feet; if you wear socks with liners while walking, do the same thing at the store.
6. While standing, have someone near to you that you can use to steady yourself. With the measuring device on the ground, step onto the instrument and center all of your weight onto the foot being measured. Do the same for the other foot.
7. Start with that size, but be aware that both the width and the length need to feel like there is adequate room for your feet. Ideally, like Goldilocks, everything will be just right. But, don't count on it. Be picky.
8. If you have special insoles or orthotics, put them into any shoe you try on as they will take up space inside the shoe.
9. When you find what you think will fit you well, you will need to see if your toes have enough clearance. Toes should not be able to be forced to the front of the shoe and touch the shoe. Not even a little. If they do, long walking and downhill grades on the trail or path or road will traumatize the bed of the nail, and that is when toenails can blacken and fall off.
10. With your shoes tied securely, but not too tight, walk around the store with your pack on. Go up stairs and down stairs, scuff the shoes to the floor so that your feet are forced to do any movement they will do and see if your toes so much as butterfly kiss the front of the shoe. Kick the front of the shoe into a post or stair or wall or someone's shin.... does that make any of your toes touch the front of the shoe? That goes for all the little piggies.
11. Next, pay attention to the width of the shoe. It shouldn't feel snug on the sides and there should be no rubbing or pressure points at all. They will not go away with "break in". They will create soreness, pain, and blistering. Even if it seems to be tolerable, it is like water torture; as your feet are continually exposed to those pressure points your feet will break down against them bit by bit, and bruising, blisters, and soreness will follow.
12. You may (or not) need to go up a size to a size and a half in length; and the same holds true with the need to go with a wider width to avoid those things I mentioned above. The notion that one avoids blisters by wearing snug footwear has been shown to do just the opposite.

 

[naplesdon]

I have many friends, both male and female, who refer to this protection as toe condoms.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I have many friends, both male and female, who refer to this protection as toe condoms.

A very visually appropriate name, Don.

 

[makingtrax]

Hi Skydancer,

I like the New Balance Fresh Foam very much too (I have the Trail v1) -- especially because of the large toe box and room to wiggle my toes. For me, my big toe is the one that is a little tender when I wear these shoes. In my case, it's a toe that was hitting against my hiking boot on a hike about a month ago.

I think what is causing this is the very firm material in the front of the shoe. If you feel way up inside of the shoe at the end you will see what I mean. Maybe your other toes that you previously lost nails from aren't hitting this firm material in quite the same way as your tender toe is.

At any rate, two solutions: 1) I wear wool socks with padding in the toe area (I wear Smartwool Hike Light Crew Socks) with silk liner socks underneath them (Lands End brand). This cushions the toe from the shoe so it doesn't feel tender.

2) It also works to wrap some cotton around the toe and keep the cotton in place with some first-aid tape. This provides cushioning, and will also protect your toenails from getting injured and falling off again since it provides a barrier between toes and shoes, especially on steep downhills.

Hope this helps!

Deborah

Wrap sheeps wool around toes. Either buy or pick off fence posts in countryside or ask sheep farmer. Only need little bit around the tender toes.

 

[kelleymac]

Hi,
I recently started my training walks for my September Camino.
On Saturday I walked for two hours and the only problem I had was my second toe (which is smaller than my big toe) the nail was quite tender. And today after an hour and a half walking again it was tender.

After trying many pairs of shoes I found new balance fresh foam more fit my feet and feel great. They have a large toebox with space to wiggle all my toes.
The only thing I can think of is that two years ago I lost the nails on four of my toes. But if that is the reason why aren’t the other three sore as well?

Help!

I lost both nails on my big toes (also my longest toes) on my first camino. (Well, actually they fell off months later...). The cuticle and nail bed on my big toes get sore after a day or two or walking, so I support them with a band-aid or leukotape. It seems to help. The toes are not hitting on anything, but they seem to be damaged or more sensitive.

 

[Kiwi-d]

One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned so far is to beware of having a seam across the toe of the sock. I personally can't wear any socks with toe seams, and most socks have them. I hunted high and low and finally found a line of Nike cotton socks without the seam, which I've been wearing now for years. I should also mention that apart from one tiny blister when I forgot to cut my toenails and one rubbed, I managed to avoid blisters on the Camino.

It's possibly not your boots that are the problem, but pressure from that seam in your socks.

 

[barnettstakeagiantstep]

Hi,
I recently started my training walks for my September Camino.
On Saturday I walked for two hours and the only problem I had was my second toe (which is smaller than my big toe) the nail was quite tender. And today after an hour and a half walking again it was tender.

After trying many pairs of shoes I found new balance fresh foam more fit my feet and feel great. They have a large toebox with space to wiggle all my toes.
The only thing I can think of is that two years ago I lost the nails on four of my toes. But if that is the reason why aren’t the other three sore as well?

Help!

I take along and when I have these issues I love the sponge like toe tubes, their ahhh.

 

[Kathy F.]

You are brilliant in paying such close attention to your most important piece of equipment - your feet - as you prepare for your journey!! So many pilgrims do not think ahead or become unaware of how their feet are doing until it is too late. Bravo to you!!

I agree with just about all the advice given so far.

1. Make sure your toenails are properly trimmed. Very important, very overlooked. Hey, it's a great excuse for a pedicure!!

2. Different lacing can keep your feet from "wiggling" inside your shoe as you step. It can prevent your feet from butting up against the front of your shoe with each step. What is tolerable on a 2 hour training walk can easily become intolerable on a 6 hour walk up (and down) O Cebreiro.

3. As much as you like those shoes, you may need to investigate a different model. Easier said than done, I know!! All the extra padding in the world won't help with a size or toe box that just isn't meant for your feet. I've written here before how I am at peace with always having to buy men's shoes for my clearly-not-dainty womanly feet.

4. I use those Injinji toe socks, LOVE them, won't go on any kind of long walk without them, but that is for blister prevention. Your situation is different. I totally agree with those who suggest different combinations of socks, which are a close second to shoes (I use boots) on the list of items that will have the most impact on your Camino.

5. I am uncomfortable with some of the pain relief techniques suggested here that seem too "fussy" for the day to day of a Camino. You want to find that sweet spot so you don't have to individually wrap your toe, carefully place and replace padding, etc. Every. Single. Day.

You are correct in identifying a problem now and recognizing that it can turn into a Camino terminator if not dealt with.

Buen Camino, stay healthy.

 

[RRat]

Of course, there is always the chance that you need a 1/2 size larger shoe!

Go to your nearest big box and purchase inexpensive hiking shoes make sure they are a size too big. They will feel and look like clown shoes. After a few miles in the clown shoes do you feel better? Perhaps, now, you are ready to purchase better quality shoes. They don't look so silly anymore, in fact your old shoes look like tiny torture devices.

 

[SkyDancer]

I wrap my vulnerable toes with 3M Medipore tape. It comes in a roll, you tear off the number of pieces you need--each little piece is just over an inch long with perforations in between. Quick and easy and does the job.

A little bit of tape on the toe has done the trick! I went for a 3 hour walk yesterday with my amost fully loaded backback on and no problems!
Thank-you everyone for all the great advice.

 

[Bill's_Walking]

A little bit of tape on the toe has done the trick! I went for a 3 hour walk yesterday with my amost fully loaded backback on and no problems!
Thank-you everyone for all the great advice.

Great news! I'm glad you found a solution.

 

[henrythedog]

I am always amazed at all the viable solutions our helpful members provide for our many pains and maladies, all of which exponentially increase as our birthdays accumulate.

Where I live in the north west of England we have a small supermarket chain who regards the 50+ demographic as it’s target market

They have a very small health-care section, largely full of things which I used to be unaware of.

Now, whenever some new ache, pain or debility arises I first look to see if that supermarket carries some sovereign remedy. If they do, I just accept that it’s part of the natural aging process.

I do think that, at around 30, one should be provided with a short booklet on ‘what to expect as you age’. Surprises have ranged from posterior vitreous detachment (which two family members who are doctors didn’t know about) to eyebrow hair-growth. What’s the evolutionary benefit of that??

 

[trecile]

I do think that, at around 30, one should be provided with a short booklet on ‘what to expect as you age’. Surprises have ranged from posterior vitreous detachment (which two family members who are doctors didn’t know about) to eyebrow hair-growth. What’s the evolutionary benefit of that?

Oh my gosh - you are so right!
It could be titled "Horrifying aging discoveries."

 

[Bill's_Walking]

Oh my gosh - you are so right!
It could be titled "Horrifying aging discoveries."

LOL nose hair has been bad enough but when I get a haircut my barber shaves my ear hairs too!

 

[DoughnutANZ]

Suprises have ranged from ..... to eyebrow hair-growth. What’s the evolutionary benefit of that??

Makes it harder to distinguish between you and your dog